NOW IS THE TIME FOR LOVE
The pandemic has been a wild rollercoaster ride of love for so many people. At the beginning Damona advised everyone should embrace virtual dates, then we moved onto social distance dates then back to virtual dates again.
You wonder, “But Damona, how can you actually make a connection that way?”
Kyle and Olivia from Atlanta, met on Bumble, and we can’t wait to share with you how it all went down so you can learn how you too could find love right now.
But first, our dating dish.
DATING DISH (3:16)
The Year in Swipe
Tinder spills all the tea in 2020’s Year in Swipe Report.
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Sparks Fly on Virtual Dates, But Not So Much in Real Life
If you’re feeling the connection on virtual dates, you might not have in-person chemistry. Damona weighs in.
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How to Win Someone Over
The Harvard Business Review teaches us how to win someone over.
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LOVE IN THE TIME OF CORONA (12:50)
Kyle and Olivia found love in 2020 on Bumble. They share exactly how it happened and what timeline you can expect with your Bumble Boo – or POF Person, Tinder Tie-Up, Facebook Dating Friend with Benefits… etc.
via GIPHY
FOLLOW ALONG HERE:
Unknown Speaker 0:00
It’s a tale as old as time. He’s handsome, debonair. She’s pretty and sweet. They lock eyes across the room.
Damona 0:10
Okay, hold on. Honey, you need to get your facts straight. Finding love today is more like Greece posts to get my
Unknown Speaker 0:18
swipe was invited to share my life.
Unknown Speaker 0:21
What does this text mean?
Unknown Speaker 0:22
Maybe he’s just not that into me is this relationship going anywhere,
Damona 0:26
you can keep waiting for the fairytale. Or you can get on board with the new rules of relationships. If you’ve read my advice in the LA Times, then you know, this ain’t your mama’s love advice. This is dates in mates with damona Hoffman. Hello, lovers, welcome to dates and mates, happy holidays, happy almost time for a vaccine day. Whoo, this pandemic, it’s been a wild roller coaster ride a love for so many people. You know, at the beginning, I advised you, you should embrace virtual dates. And then we moved into social distance dates. But then with the spike in numbers, I was like, Nah, you need to go back to the virtual dates. And you said but damona? Maybe you didn’t say it like that. But you were like, how can you actually make a connection that way. And I told the same thing to my clients. And I said that the process is the same, you know, I have a dating process. It’s the same even though it might be happening virtually. But it takes at least three months of really committing to a dating plan, usually, for my clients to finally see a shift. And I have to admit, in November, spirits were low, many of my clients wanted to throw in the towel. And some of them even doubted that system would still work in a pandemic. And they thought maybe this just wasn’t their season for love. After we did our single hit episode. So many people said to me, like yeah, I’m tapping out. Thanks for thanks for giving me the out Dimona, I’m out of here. But you know what I have, I got three different emails this week from clients who have moved literally from basically hopelessness into almost exclusivity in just a couple weeks. And I got to meet incredible couple who connected virtually at the height of the pandemic, and their relationship couldn’t be stronger. So I am a big believer in virtual love. And I also believe that even in the midst of a pandemic, you could still have your season to meet someone if you want it. I’ll be talking to Kyle and Olivia from Atlanta, they met on Bumble. And I cannot wait to share with you how it all went down. So you can learn how you too could find love right now. But first, you know, I like to do these headlines. And there’s a lot happening. Tinder spills all the tea in there 2020 year and swipe report. And watch out if you’re feeling the connection on virtual dates you might not have in person chemistry. Plus, the Harvard Business Review teaches us how to win someone over. Oh, that one is a brain bender. And there’s so much more coming up on dates and mates today. Now it’s time for the dish, these dating dish. Y’all know I love a good report. And Tinder. Tinder is the number one dating app. So I trust their data. And I love digging into it to know what’s really going on what’s happening on the front lines of dating apps today. So that I can tell you, and there is a lot in here that was super juicy. We covered this report last year, I think was the first year that they did it. And obviously, when you think back to December 2019, to where we are today, what a difference a year makes, obviously, more messaging and more swiping they were up nearly double digits by the end of the year compared with even just February of this year, which is usually high season for the dating apps between January and February. That’s when they see the big spike in new users. We spiked double digits beyond that. And of course the pickup game change the pickup lines started shifting even as early as March they started hearing a lot of quarantine and chill, you know, you know, they’re they can track what people are saying in their messages. They base people got real corny with this, they were like let’s be like COVID and catch each other or wash your hands so you can hold mine. I don’t recommend any pickup lines like that, but I’m sure it made a couple of people giggle and maybe led to some connections. And there were also evolutions in the emoji usage I covered last year how the facepalm was the big emoji of 2019 we have evolved it’s no longer the facepalm it’s not even in the top 10 maybe that’s just because We don’t want to have our hands in our face, because we know that we could transmit COVID that way.
Now the most common apps are the, you know, the shrug emoji that like, What? What’s up? everybody’s like, I don’t know what’s happening. It’s COVID. Of course, the the mask emoji that one that’s obviously genius, and toilet paper, and grocery carts, which I didn’t even know, were emojis. I literally didn’t know that those existed in the emoji keyboard. But now they’re really hot on Tinder. Should you use them to make a connection? I think you could do better, I think you could talk about something a little bit more with more depth to it. They also saw that politics were a hotter topic than before. People lay down those political deal breakers, right in their bios, I said that in episodes leading up to the election, and also mentions of Black Lives Matter on the platform were up 55 times amid, you know, you know what happened, you know, you know, so you know, Black Lives Matter has been a thing for a long time. But of course, this year, people are talking about it in a new way and talk of voting doubled in the months leading up to the 2020 election. So that’s what’s on everybody’s mind. But I really feel like there’s been a shift in the dating landscape. Even just since the election ended, I feel like people in the last month have become a lot more open to dating. But of course, as numbers are spiking, you have to be safe. So the New York Times tells us how you can make a connection on a virtual date. Of course, as I mentioned, at the top of the show, at the beginning of the pandemic, everybody turned to video dating to make connections like we were all just grabbing at straws, like I’m stuck here this house I need human connection. And then we really fatigued over the the whole virtual dates and just being on zoom for the whole day. Like now I have to have a zoom date. That’s not cute. So this article really examines how to make a connection over video and they told some stories of people who thought that they had a connection over video. But once they met face to face, they didn’t always feel that spark anymore. They interviewed this behavioral expert, she’s based in Amsterdam, so she has a name that I’m probably going to butcher and Marja ood is how I’m told it is said, people are going to correct me I’m sure on it. But I think things must be really different in Amsterdam, because she recommended that you want to really give a person a sense of what you look like on camera. So she said show yourself fully by standing up and turning around for a clear view of how you look even if it feels awkward. And no, no, not in my book. Okay, so you can play by Anne’s book, or you can play by the damona Hoffman dates and maids rule book, that is weird, do not do it, you also have to leave something to the imagination. And I really don’t think that it’s going to help you at all to to show your body moving on. Unless you have like a reason like you’re gonna make it cool. Like we’re gonna do a dance off. If the person is into dancer if even though they’ve had like six gmts or something. But otherwise, no, just stay seated and just be regular. Okay, just be normal, be your normal self.
And also focus on listening, of course and asking good questions, but also creating more interaction. You’ve heard me say this before gamify the date play 20 questions like really make it more than just like feeling like a work meeting. And then of course, they say, as soon as it’s safe, try to get offline and meet face to face as soon as possible. That is the same thing that I say. And I just did a refinery 29 interview last week and and the writer was asking me about how quickly it should progress if you’re in the virtual date phase. And now we can’t really go on social distance dates too easily. And I really feel like it’s the same timeline. It’s just that now we can’t, we can’t move offline as quickly. So you need to make those virtual dates feel a little bit juicy or but still after, I would say probably two or three max virtual dates, like put on your snow pants and figure out a way to actually connect face to face because I do think that face to face connection is really important. And you’re going to hear a little bit more about that experience as I talk to our Bumble couple in just a moment. And if you’re wondering how to make that great connection when you do meet face to face. This is this. This is a little bit of a twist for dates and mates. We actually took a page out of the Harvard Business review for you this week on how to win someone over. So this is not a dating article or study like we normally report on this was actually a study about lawyers and how they win over judges but producer Leone, I thought it was so fascinating because a lot of the advice that they give is the same thing that I tell my clients about mirroring, linguistic mirroring, and even body language mirroring. So in this article, which of course will link to in the show notes at dates and mates calm. It said, when you mirror your counterparts preferred communication style, they’re more likely to find you convincing or feel familiar or authentic. And that is really a big part of the connection. Like what what are people looking for, they’re not looking to be impressed by you, they’re not looking to have you list off all of the wonderful things about you and your your house and your boat, and your dog and your your job. And like all these things that that make us feel like we have value in today’s society know, somebody wants to feel like they connect with you that they feel like you’re real, and they feel seen by you and like you get them. And linguistic mirroring is something that happens naturally, when you feel a connection to someone but hot tip you can actually create more connection by intentionally mirroring their linguistic flow, like the way that they speak their inflection, their tone, their volume. And that’s just one little piece of the pie. Obviously, I have tons more than I could tell you. I share a lot of it with our Patreon friends with benefits in our little secret private Facebook group. So if you want to get more tips on flirting or more tips on virtual dates, make sure you check us out@patreon.com slash dates and mates you can join there for just five bucks. When I come back, I will have the cutest couple that I have ever seen. who met on Bumble in the middle of a pandemic. And I feel hopeful I’m in a relationship and they made me feel hopeful. So I’m really hoping that they make you feel hopeful as well. So stick around. Welcome back to dates and mates. I know you’ve probably thought once or twice about giving up on finding love in a pandemic. But it’s time to think about it just one more time and maybe change your mind. I am here with Kyle and Olivia, they live in Atlanta. And they found love on Bumble in 2020. Yes, in the middle of a pandemic. So if you’ve been down on the dating apps, give me a chance to prove you wrong today. Please help me give big smooches to my guests, Kyle and Olivia.
Unknown Speaker 12:50
Hi, guys.
Damona 12:52
I’m so glad you could be here with me. Let me tell you people are out here and these online dating streets struggling they are struggling. So first of all, congratulations to you for finding one another at a time like this. But I want to hear I want to hear everything I want to hear the good, the bad and the ugly, the ups and the downs. And how you came to find each other on Bumble finally. So you’re not new to dating apps. Right? Olivia, you’ve done this before you had done this before about the dance.
Unknown Speaker 13:30
The dance is a tango. And sometimes you win sometimes you lose. But I will say I’ve been on Tinder I’ve been on hinge I’ve been on Bumble Bumble has always been my favorite. To be honest. I think that people on Bumble are more serious about relationships or finding a relationship rather than the hookup culture that has now been created. And I can honestly say I was struggling to before I met Kyle of but I found it I decided to just try Bumble again at the top of the pandemic, there really wasn’t much going on. I was going to work on home structure and it seemed indefinite. And so I was balancing working from home I had a roommate at the time who did the bumblebee line and encouraged me to actually do it as well. And I did it first. In March. I think it was more of like the middle of March and match with some guys, but that fizzled out. And so I kind of was disheartened. So I was kind of in the mindset of I’m not doing it anymore. I don’t want to be on Bumble. This is terrible. The pandemics not gonna last that long. But then I really said no. Try it again. See what happens. So I said okay, fine. I’ll take the bat Beeline. I’ll do it one more time. And then I saw Kyle and my Beeline and I matched with him and we just kind of took it from there.
Damona 14:49
Whoo. I can’t wait to hear all the juiciness of what happened once you met but I got to hear from you, Kyle. Did you have a similar experience with dating apps before?
Unknown Speaker 14:59
Sure. Bumble was the only dating app that I had ever tried. I liked it so much because it puts women in the driver’s seat. And sometimes that’s half the battle. And, you know, you have to reach out to them like another apps that I’ve heard on, he had to reach out to them. He had to hope they’re interested, but it makes makes women kind of like, you know, the aggressor in a way, like, okay, like, I want you and you guys match. So I like that. I really like that because they have to come outside their comfort zone. So um, that’s why
Damona 15:42
I am seeing a look from Olivia right now. Like when you said it makes women the aggressor. What was that?
Unknown Speaker 15:47
Look?
Unknown Speaker 15:48
I guess my leg was kind of I feel like maybe I cheated at that. Because Because with the Beeline, what’s so great about is that you see guys that already like to you. So I kind of knew he was already interested. I wasn’t swiping to see if you know, if we match. It was kind of like, oh, he already likes me. So I can swipe. And we’re just an automatic match. I think I kind of cheated.
Damona 16:13
Was that your your strategy? Like? Did you have a dating app strategy?
Unknown Speaker 16:18
No, I honestly, this was my second time using the Beeline but I’ve never used the Beeline prior to the pandemic, I think that I was at a point where I wanted to leave through even more the people that I wasn’t interested in and kind of get a leg up because I do like Bumble because the woman takes the first has the first move. But at the same time, you could match or swipe with so many people and reach out to them. And then they don’t reply back or they take too long to reply back. So I think that the Beeline really helped me kind of propel or push faster into getting to know someone because I knew they already liked me. And it was a quicker start to the conversation. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 16:58
definitely.
Damona 16:59
Kyle, did you what How did you meet women before?
Unknown Speaker 17:04
Oh, before Bumble.
Damona 17:07
Yeah. Or had you been doing Bumble for a long time. And that was like your that was your main dating app squeeze.
Unknown Speaker 17:12
I was doing Bumble for all of 2019 um, and it was exhausting. be socially exhausting, because I was I was going on so many first dates. And you know, they would just like live said just fizzle out. And but I kept you know, going back to and then I would stop, you know, I, I kind of I am gonna chill for a minute, then I go back and then I was stopped. So before that on it. Honestly, I was pretty. I was pretty like oblivious. I was really like in my work. And that’s all I was doing. And I was in a long, like a long term relationship before that. So I really didn’t know anything about like the new dating world and dating apps or, you know, tenders or anything like that. So, um,
Damona 18:03
that’s the way to do it. Olivia, you got to get them while they’re fresh, fresh meat. You know, not all that baggage. All those you know, ideas about it, you just go in there, get the Beeline and snatch them. No. No, I do want to know how it actually worked. Once you matched How long did you communicate on the app before you move to the next step? And what was that next step when you did?
Unknown Speaker 18:31
Oh, wow. So I think it was maybe the same day, right? The same day we matched
Unknown Speaker 18:37
Yes.
Unknown Speaker 18:37
We talked the same
Unknown Speaker 18:38
day we matched we talked for I think though the whole day on the app. And you know, just try to get a feel for each other. And, and I know, at that point, being on the app, I was asking questions, like we’re not getting off this app to you know, you answered this, this this I was
Damona 18:57
gonna interview Olivia sometimes,
Unknown Speaker 19:00
because I was asking my list of questions too. And I was gonna say like one thing about us, our profiles kind of have a similar message where his profile said, you know, I’m looking for somebody to take me off of this app. And my profile says something along the lines of like, I’m looking for the last gentleman out there to you know, match with and see where it goes. So when we got into a conversation on that it kind of just flowed into, okay, what do you like, how has the pandemic been for you? What have you been watching? What are you looking for? Are you looking for something serious? And we talked for the remaining remainder of the day into the evening? And then Kyle quickly told me he had work the next morning, so he couldn’t talk to me anymore. Um,
Damona 19:44
so sounds like your feelings were a little bit hurt in that moment.
Unknown Speaker 19:48
He still brings that up. But it was really nice because it to me is showing me my priorities. And I’m like, if he takes his priorities that seriously, I want to be one of those priorities. So I gave him my phone number. And then we quickly took it off the app the next day.
Damona 20:06
Okay, so talk me through that that step Did you gave you gave your phone number to him. Kyle, were you nervous to give her a call? What are you feeling?
Unknown Speaker 20:18
So story? Yes. So the story is, I, I like I have a very dry sensing where I have a very unique sense of humor. So what I did the next day, because I didn’t wait, I don’t believe in the whole all you got to wait a week, and I don’t have time for the game. So what I did was I text her and I told her, Hey, this is Brandon. And she’s like Brandon, Fran, and who? And I was like, you know, remember we met at the club? Or, you know, I made up some elaborate story. And she, she, she kept like, you know, who is this? Or like, when Where did I go to the club? Where what bars like, wow, you don’t remember our conversation, and all that. So finally, she asked for a picture. I’m like, Ah, man, I don’t want the joke to be over just yet. So I sent her a baby picture. And
Unknown Speaker 21:12
I love being blocked.
Unknown Speaker 21:13
Yeah. And I felt it. My spirit. So finally. Finally, I was just like, No, no, just kidding. This is Kyle. And yeah, before I got blocked, because I guess apparently I was
Damona 21:28
so close. Okay, so you’re still just like you were in the app messaging. And now you’re still just messaging but on your phone?
Unknown Speaker 21:35
Yes.
Damona 21:36
So when did you make it make real like real contact?
Unknown Speaker 21:40
So we messaged on the phone once I realized he wasn’t Brandon. And the job was over. And it was kind of it was at first it was funny, because I’m like, No, this is Kyle. I’m saying it in the text. I was like, No, I don’t know. Kyle is Brandon. Okay, this is embarrassing. So you’re going to get blocked very quickly. Um, but the joke subsided and we started conversations, we started talking and I feel like that same day, he FaceTime me for the first time. And so this was April 8. Okay, sorry, talking April 7. Um, and so he based on me, we FaceTime every day after that. We went on our first virtual date which
Damona 22:18
Wait, hold on, before you get into the virtual day, I have to pause because the FaceTime This is a point of contention for me and a lot of my clients here. Did you just just out of the blue FaceTime? Or did you make a plan to cut to FaceTime her?
Unknown Speaker 22:35
I don’t know if I honestly, I don’t know, if I actually made a plan did we
Unknown Speaker 22:40
know you FaceTime me out of nowhere, which I know is quite taboo.
Unknown Speaker 22:43
I don’t know, you’re allowed to just FaceTime out of nowhere, you just meet someone, um,
Damona 22:48
did she pick up.
Unknown Speaker 22:50
So I picked up and I quickly had to get my life together. I didn’t miss the FaceTime call. Um, but because I was already home, I’m kind of doing the meat of Zoo meetings and things like that I was already okay. So when I picked up for him, I was able to talk to them. Um, and the conversation was very normal. And it was like I knew him. Like we were already friends. We talked, we crack jokes about things we were interested in, we talked about our day. Um, so it actually played out really well for us. And then we facetimed all the time after that really didn’t use the phone. And we texted a lot when we couldn’t talk. If he had meetings, I had meetings doing stuff. And I think we had that mutual respect of we don’t want to call her talk constantly, or didn’t want to be needy or desperate. But we had enough where I felt like at least for him as a guy. He was still showing interest in me. So I was feeding that back.
Damona 23:45
And at this point, in the pandemic, things were still very locked down. It’s not like you could just be like, hey, let’s go grab a drink, maybe would that have been what you would do in normal times? And the pace timing was sort of a substitute for a real date?
Unknown Speaker 23:59
Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, we definitely would have like to go out or anything like that, but we kind of had to, like do the virtual dates and things. So yeah, it was definitely a new experience. adjustment.
Damona 24:15
So how long are you going back and forth on FaceTime before you decide to actually mate?
Unknown Speaker 24:21
Wow. Oh, that
Unknown Speaker 24:23
was at least a month.
Unknown Speaker 24:26
Yeah, I think it was like a month.
Unknown Speaker 24:27
So I was a little bit more paranoid at the time. I had a roommate and she was a nurse at chellah. So Children’s Healthcare of Atlanta. So I was living with somebody who was saying the front lines is this is serious, this is going to get worse. And so he was very interested in doing virtual dates, but sending me food be Uber Eats or doordash. And so it was a sweet idea because we were supposed to eat dinner together and watch like a movie virtually or tune into what was it the Teddy Riley Baby, baby. So we watch different things together, but I I was like, I don’t First off, I’m not eating outside of my house. I don’t want to eat anything from anyone else. And then at the time, I also didn’t want to give him my address. I really didn’t know him.
Unknown Speaker 25:09
She shut me down.
Unknown Speaker 25:11
I shut him down a couple of times, um, for the food, but I gave it we gave it about a month. Mm hmm. Because everybody was saying at the time, you know, two weeks 14 days quarantining, so I kind of said, All right, it’s been a month, he hasn’t shown any symptoms. I talked to him sunup to sundown, and I haven’t heard him call once. So maybe we can meet. Um, and I was very particular about our meeting, it had to be outside. I wanted it to be during the day, and I wanted it to be at least close enough to me, or to you where we weren’t driving out of the way because you have to be safe, like as a woman and you have to be safe. And you know, during the panel, you know, side a lot of rule. Lots of rules somebody put up with
Damona 25:56
Kyle, did you have any? any qualms about meeting her? She’s living with a nurse who was on the front lines? Would did that make you nervous at all?
Unknown Speaker 26:07
Um, honestly, no. Because she was so like, in a bubble. Even though like, you know, that she mentioned her roommate was a nurse, but still, she was so much in her bubble. Like she said, I wouldn’t. I wasn’t even able to send food to her. She wasn’t even getting like takeout or anything. So I was like, Okay, well, if anybody would, you know, probably be mean, but. So we were fine with that. Yeah, we were I was fine with it.
Damona 26:32
Okay, so where did you go when you finally couldn’t meet up?
Unknown Speaker 26:37
When you walk?
Damona 26:41
You know, say that one more time.
Unknown Speaker 26:42
We took a walk. Where?
Unknown Speaker 26:45
Yeah. So he was still going into his office. I was working from home. And yeah, exactly. But it was social distance. There wasn’t a lot of people in his office. They were still being safe. But he was in his office during the day. So I took a lunch break from work. And I said, Okay, well, I’ll come see you on my lunch break. And then we can take a walk. He said he actually he actually came up with it. He said we could take a walk near his job because there was a kind of Plaza restaurant area near his job. So he said, I want to it all the time from my lunch break. So we could just take lunch together. And I said, Okay, well, I’m not eating anywhere, but we can take the walk. He said, Okay, so I dropped his job. And I got out the car. And we met for the first time we gave each other hug. We went on this walk
Damona 27:35
mask and you’re fully masked, right? Or no, this is before masks were mandated.
Unknown Speaker 27:40
Yeah. For mask or mandated. So we know masks. I’m walking talking with people weren’t around as if we saw people, we went a different way. Yeah. Um, you wanted to get out here.
Damona 27:56
I want to know what your first impressions were. Because that that transition is sometimes unexpected for people when they move from the from the app or from FaceTime to actually seeing each other. Kyle, what did you think the minute you first saw her in real life?
Unknown Speaker 28:12
So first off, she was as cute as she is now. Um, so what she was, she had just like a glow about her. And I really appreciated that. We just saw each other. And it was like, Oh, there you are. Oh, there you are. But it was it was like a comfortable feeling. Like there wasn’t there wasn’t any nervousness or anything like that. So that’s something that I definitely took notice of because we were on that walk. And it wasn’t like it wasn’t uncomfortable. I don’t think it was just very
Unknown Speaker 28:46
agreeable. I was definitely nervous
Unknown Speaker 28:49
a lot. I wasn’t.
Unknown Speaker 28:51
I was nervous, because I had talked to this person every day for a month. And I like you know, the fear. I guess for me, online dating is you grow this relationship with someone and then it could be a catfish, or that person could be crazy. Or they could have that intention. So it was a little nerve wracking to finally meet this guy that I was so interested in and like gel so well that I was like, Oh my gosh, I hope normal. I hope he likes me. I hope I was cute. I hope it doesn’t rain, I hope and just so many things. Because Yeah, so I think the thing I was definitely a little bit nervous. But as we walk the conversation flowed the same way it did on our own calls, so I felt more and more comfortable.
Damona 29:30
Could you tell she was nervous, Kyle?
Unknown Speaker 29:33
I couldn’t, honestly until until just now I didn’t know that she was nervous. But as we took our walk, we you could just tell that I think that you became more and more comfortable. And by the end of the walk, it was like Okay, so this is it. Yeah.
Damona 29:51
So considering there’s a pandemic, and you’re probably not on the app talking to other people, I’m guessing. I don’t want to step in any Thing awkward. No, we
Unknown Speaker 30:02
talked about that too. Um, I wasn’t talking to anybody. When I was in when I initially matched with Kyle, I matched with other guys. But our conversation went so well. And I really was losing hope. So I was kind of like, you know what this conversation so I’ll focus only on this person. And so I didn’t have anybody else. I was juggling at the time it was solely talking
Unknown Speaker 30:23
to him. Yeah. When when we matched, and we started talking, um, I think after we FaceTime, I completely like just, even though even though we didn’t have that initial conversation of exclusivity, I like, put my thing on Do Not Disturb. Because I don’t like no distractions or anything like cool. I want to focus on this. And I think even I’m sorry, to whoever or she’s listening. But somebody gave me their number. Wow, like we were in, I just didn’t even use it. Right. So they’re kind of just out there in the lurch.
Damona 31:02
Oh, but that happens so much, right? That happens a lot. These sort of unmet expectations. I also wanted to address what you said Olivia, about, that the nervousness coming from all that expectation, you’d spent a month getting to know each other. And usually in regular times, I would tell my clients move offline as quickly as possible, you need to see if this is the real deal in the real world. And so there’s less expectation, but you can’t do that in the middle of a pandemic. And even though we had a summer that was a little bit more lacks, in a lot of places where I’m in Los Angeles, things are locked down, and no outdoor dining whatsoever. And a lot of my a lot of my clients and listeners in different places, as the weather is turning, they can’t do dates. They can’t do dates outdoors anymore. And they’re really struggling with that moving the relationship forward. But that fear of what if what if he’s not what I expected him to be, can sometimes keep you in that state of limbo?
Unknown Speaker 32:08
No, definitely. I think that it was a, a not a big fear, especially not on the first date. Because I had, I had gone through the rinse and repeat of online dating where you go on a date with somebody, and maybe it works and it’s great and you want another date and then somehow it fizzles out or it just you know, on that first date, this is never happening again. So I kind of walked into it like okay, this is something that never happens again. I guess I just chalked up another month of my life, doing the rinse and repeat of online dating. But I did go into it very hopeful because we had such a great year. Yeah, it’s like I can’t I know it sounds really cliche, but it’s like I knew him already. It’s like, we were already friends. It was like he just meshed so well with me. And I mesh so well with him that it just really worked. And like he said, I kind of got more comfortable throughout the date itself, because we ended up sitting down on some steps that outside of a church. And then I kind of just leaned and put my head on his shoulder and he put his head on mine. And then I think in that moment I knew okay. Yeah, see where this goes. And I think that we walked back to my car, he walking back to my car, and we were both on conference calls. So we’re still trying to work from home and I under I appreciated his hustle, hustle. I appreciated him being understanding that I slept at work he slashed to where it was a lot of things that we were still making sure that our priorities got taken care of. But we were still making sure we had time for one another.
Damona 33:39
Do you think that you did something different in the staging process? And I’m also curious, do you think COVID and the pandemic and lockdown had an effect on YouTube being able to meet Do you think it would have played out? Maybe differently? If you had met it another time?
Unknown Speaker 34:00
I always say yes. I always say I don’t think that we would have met at a pandemic because
Damona 34:06
I or outside of a pandemic.
Unknown Speaker 34:08
Yeah, outside the pandemic. It was just that that point. I feel like I was more like I’m kind of tired of dating and like when the pandemic hit, I was just like, Alright, let’s see, just one more time. That was my one more time. So it was Kismet, obviously. But yeah, that was my one more time but I always say if it was regular. Now, because I was doing that already the year before I would like have long hiatuses of just not going back on Bumble.
Damona 34:43
What would you say was different? I mean, aside from the global pandemic, do you feel like it had something to do with the way that you paced the relationship getting to know each other over FaceTime or something else that was happening internally.
Unknown Speaker 35:00
Oh, um, we definitely FaceTime more that helped, um, probably more than like when I would, when I was dating previously, that really helped because that believe it or not gave some type of interaction more interaction than just regular talking on the phone. You know, I got to we got to see each other laugh, which is really important. We got to like, as as funny as it may sound like each other in the eye when we’re talking. So it definitely added to the closest right before we met. Mm hmm.
Unknown Speaker 35:41
Was it the same,
Unknown Speaker 35:41
I always say, we would have probably met outside of the pandemic, I think it would have just taken us a little bit longer. I don’t only because he has friends that were in the same area, like people, he has this other business partners, friends, things like that. He, they were in the same place as me and different events the year prior, like during Halloween and things like that, when we were actually able to be out. And so I said, You know, I probably would have ended up at an event you were at, and then we may have met and started talking. But then he says I would have been focused on doing whatever I was doing, I was able to pay attention to you. I would have made you like hello, hi, I would have still pursued you with my personality. But I
Unknown Speaker 36:26
don’t know, I don’t I don’t think so personally, but she says that thing, you know, maybe
Damona 36:31
funny. My husband who was actually on a couple episodes ago, when we met we actually had some mutual friends in common. But we met online. And we know of at least two parties that we were both at and may or may not have met but he says he wouldn’t. He was like, he’s very introverted. He probably wouldn’t have have said anything to me. So like through the app, he was able to gain the confidence and find the right words. And yeah, you know, make the make the right moves. I’m curious how long before you had an actual real date? Or have you? Have you even had a real date? Like, as much as we can in a pandemic? Okay,
Unknown Speaker 37:13
we actually did have our real day and it was perfect because it
Unknown Speaker 37:19
was cookie friendly.
Unknown Speaker 37:19
Yeah, it was inadvertently quote COVID friendly. So we went to the driving. And we went to yet we went to go see a movie at the drive in. But you see bad boys for life? Yeah. So yeah, we went to we went to see bad boys for life. And that tacos first we got tacos from my favorite taco spot. And yeah, and it was just us in the car watching the movie. And I think that it was, that was a great intimate moment for us. Because just us very, right. There’s nobody, like, you know, popcorn spilling on you because somebody else and further, you know, the back or whatever. So it was good. That was our I believe that was our first one. Yeah, we
Unknown Speaker 38:07
hung out. Like I came over and watch movies at his house once I realized that he wasn’t weird and that this was Um, but yeah, we hung out at his house. And then he said, You know, I’m, I want us to do a date. I have a plan. And so that’s one thing that I really appreciate about him is that he is very take charge. And he is very romantic, even though he thinks he’s not I’m very like, into romcoms. He’s, but he’s very romancing and he made a plan. And he said, We’re going somewhere somewhere. Okay, whatever. It was kind of a surprise for me. You didn’t tell me where we were going. He said, we’re gonna get tacos with you both love tacos. So this was perfect. And then he was like, and then we pulled up and I’m like, I’ve been here before. sighs Oh, gosh,
Unknown Speaker 38:48
we’re gonna drive
Unknown Speaker 38:49
and he’s like, yeah, we want to drive in. I want to take you on a day to something COVID friendly, cuz I know you didn’t want to be outside of the house. So I really appreciated it and taking the time to make sure that I was comfortable. And then like you said it was more of an intimate date. Because it was us it was our food. There was nobody really around, you’re playing on the radio. So it was really, really nice and really sweet. And so that was our first in person real date.
Damona 39:15
It’s like the 1950s is kind of romantic. You have your own little bubble there. So speaking of speaking of your bubble, what does it look like? Now? How have you How has the relationship progressed? And like? Olivia, do you have different rules now? Are you eating at other people’s houses? Are you eating at the same house? What’s going on?
Unknown Speaker 39:38
Um, I think I’m, I’m a little bit less with him at least, but like less cautious. I think that we spend a lot of time together whether I’m at his house or he’s at my house. But I don’t think that outside of our relationship. We i’m not i’m still very mask oriented. We have hand sanitizer in our cars. I actually bought him mask, I put masks in his car. And it kind of turned because where I was. So trying to be on guard and trying to set the tone of we need to be careful, we need to be cautious. You need to wear your mask. I think there was a point in what, June or July where I would just get out of the car to go to the supermarket and his keys fully man, I
Unknown Speaker 40:18
don’t have my mask on. And she
Unknown Speaker 40:20
said, What are you doing? And I’m like, What do you mean? So it kind of shifted. And so now it keeps me on top of things, because I’m like, trying to remember Oh, yeah, mask everything. So I think it kind of works out, I feel like our relationship works really well because of a balance. And we’re very balanced in the sense of being precautious for one another, and we do eat out. But where we eat, we make sure the restaurant social distance that they’re wearing masks, we wear masks, when we’re around other people, we tend to be outside, so we’re eating out less now that it’s colder in Atlanta. But um, I think I think that we try to be as cautious as we can. Yeah, um, especially the longer we’re dating, you know, now we’re looking at, you know, blending the families, having my parents meet his parents, having him meet my parents, he’s met my dad, my needs met my sister. So just trying to be cautious in those ways too. Because as we get, you know, as we continue to grow our bond, we don’t want to miss out on the opportunity to continue our life together and stay in just that bubble, our bubble has to somewhat expand just a little bit, just a little bit. But we want to make sure at least I don’t want to be free. But I want to make sure that we can still move forward and progress forward in a positive manner, we
Unknown Speaker 41:37
still have to have those temples of different moments where as long as there’s social distance, and it’s safe for us to continue our relationship as normal as we can.
Damona 41:50
That’s all we’re striving for. As we can be, what advice, tips, inspiration do you have for anyone listening? Who is at this point where so many of my listeners have written in about this phase of COVID and being locked down again. And just the fatigue, they’re fatigued of dating apps, they’re fatigued of texts that go nowhere? They’re just, you know, overwhelmed by the fear of COVID? And how do you even date when you can’t even leave your house? What would you say to them,
Unknown Speaker 42:25
um, it’s possible, it’s very, very possible, you have to be a little more creative. And honestly, you’re going to, this is a great way to weed some some people out, because all you have is conversation, it depends on your level of like, you know, safety as far as COVID goes, but you all you have this conversation with us, I think is great that we met during the pandemic, if you know, the pandemic itself is very unfortunate. But we had our relationship in reverse. We were, we couldn’t go anywhere. So everything was just, you know, finding things to do around the house. Like we we did games where we would know each like find out about each other and ask questions. We had game nights, we had all kinds of stuff. So it makes you more creative. And we didn’t, we didn’t go out like barely, we barely went out. So now we’re just it’s like everyday life. And we did that first. So you have to be ready to, you know, if you do talk to somebody during a pandemic, you have to be ready to do, do things kind of reverse and really get to know them. And it’s honestly, it’s pretty rewarding to them.
Unknown Speaker 43:47
No, definitely, I think my advice would be to always be your genuine self, especially right now. I think that some of the conversations or some of the interactions that other people will have, be open to a friendship. I think that’s also something I think that when I met him and I smashed with him, I was like, Okay, if I get a great guy that I can talk to, and another friend that I can make in this pandemic, then that would be great to because at this point, I had a roommate, so I had social interaction. And I was doing some parties with my sister in New York and her friends. So I had some type of social interaction, but it would have been It was like, Okay, I’m gonna get something great out of this one way or the other. And then sometimes I think that when you go into online dating, it can be disheartening. But I’m, once again, I know it sounds cliche, but he or she is out there. And I think you just have to have the patience to and to not take all the losses or all the bad apples and take them personally. It’s just whatever that person is carrying or moving within life, then that’s how they’re showing up but just kind of see it through. Sometimes you might need to take a little break from it, take a breather, refocus, do something else and then come back to it with her. fresher mind, but always be your genuine self look for laughs look for a good time because it’s it can be really bleak with the pandemic right now. And everybody’s dealing with it in different ways. People are morning people, there’s a lot of grief, a lot of concerns with mental health. So, you know, just try to make connections and see where those connections grow. Like give it the time because right now we have nothing but time. Yep.
Damona 45:24
Well, I couldn’t have said it better myself. Thank you so much for being here and for sharing your amazing love story. You two are adorable together. I know our listeners can’t see you. But you’ll just have to take my word for it. And I just wish her the two of you together. The two of you together are amazing. And I just wish you continued love and happiness and health. together.
Unknown Speaker 45:48
You Sandy.
Damona 45:50
Thank you. This has been Episode 340 of dates and mates. I’m at damona Hoffman on all of the socials. Please DM me your questions. Let me know what you’d like to know. If you’re struggling to find love on dating apps. Let me know where you’re getting stuck. And I could answer your question on a future episode. You can also feel free to send me a message about what you learned from today’s episode. Go ahead and DM me and send me a voice memo. I’d love to hear your voice. You sat here and listen to my voice all this time. I want to hear yours. And you can find me on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook at damona Hoffman. We have just one more episode left for 2020. But the search for Love does not rest. So neither will I I will be doing my weekly q&a as for anyone who needs support over the holidays in my patreon Friends with Benefits group that you can join for just five bucks@patreon.com slash dates and mates. And there’s a whole group of supportive people who are going through the same thing you are and would love to invite you into the circle again, that’s patreon.com slash dates and mates. Next week, we have another dear demona on tap. So do send me your questions. DM me if you can or leave me a voicemail at 424-246-6255 Again, that’s 424-246-6255 we’ll be back again next. I already said that. Let me just say also, and don’t forget to mark Don’t forget to subscribe and don’t forget to subscribe to the show and rate and review. If you are subscribed, you will get our episodes in January. We are moving to a new day on Tuesday. So if you’re not subscribed, you might miss out join the club. Until next week. I wish you happy dating
Attachment Theory & Getting Fauci-ed
ARE YOU DESTINED TO REPEAT RELATIONSHIP HISTORY?
This week on Dates & Mates, we’re exploring the way our relationship history impacts how we connect and find love with Attachment Theory expert, Jennifer Lehr LMFT.
Damona gets a lot of questions about the importance of attachment styles in future relationships and so today we’re getting some more information.
via GIPHY
But first, as always, we’ve got headlines:
DATING DISH
Mo’ money, Mo’ problems?
According to a new study from Magnify Money by Lendingtree, money is still a big point of contention for couples. 74% of partnered millennials and Zoomers report being mad at their partner for financial decisions they have made. Damona’s not so shocked by the results of this study and explains why.
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Fauci-ing – the latest dating trend sweeping the nation
Shout out to Plenty of Fish for coining the best COVID-related dating term: “fauci-ing”. Here’s the best example we’ve seen on the internet to date:
via GIPHY
HISTORY MAKES US WHO WE ARE (10:00)
Today we hear from Jennifer Lehr, a marriage and family therapist who specialized in educating couples on the relationship skills they need to build a solid, connected, and loving partnership.
She gives us some perspective for singles looking to find their forever partner. This interview went deep:
(11:00) Nature or Nurture: What determines a healthy relationship for you?
(13:00) How your relationship with your parents can impact the way you show up in your romantic relationships, too
(18:20) How to prevent your relationship history from repeating itself
TECHNICALLY DATING (36:02)
Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:
THIS EPISODE IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY TEXTNOW
The app solves many major challenges that Damona’s clients face in dating today:
We are proud to collaborate with an app that empowers modern daters to feel safe and secure. If you want more information, check out Damona’s video on when to give out your number to people you meet on dating apps. Click here!
DATES & MATES DEALS
Download OkCupid today! damonahoffman.com/okcupid
OkCupid is FAMOUS for matching people on what MATTERS MOST to them, from food to the type of relationship they want…to politics. They ask you really thoughtful and provoking questions to get to the heart of who you are and what type of person you’re looking for.
Are you missing out? Download OkCupid today!
Virtual Valentines & Be My Galentine
A LOT MORE LOVE & A LOT MORE HAPPINESS
This week on Dates & Mates, we’re celebrating Valentines AND Galentines.
Every single human on earth could use more love and more happiness right now – so it’s time we take matters into our own hands and make some space for love.
If you are new here – welcome!
This show is hosted by your certified dating coach, Damona Hoffman, and we’re all about navigating the challenges of modern dating – confusing texts, dating app frustrations, ghosting, bad breakups and confusing pandemic connections.
For 15 years Damona has been coaching folks on how to find and admittedly, the pandemic has made everything a little more complicated…
Ok – a lot more complicated – but there is still hope!
Damona’s clients are still going on dates, falling in love, and some even getting married. It is possible!!
That is why we have invited celebrity wedding planner and TV personality David Tutera on to the show to talk about how you can set the stage for love this year – yes, even in the midst of a pandemic.
We’ll give you tips to make your home visually inviting – even if over zoom, ideas for celebrating Valentine’s Day – single or coupled – and David will give his predictions on what the future of weddings will look like this year and beyond.
Here’s the rundown:
DATING DISH
Couples Therapy: The key to having it all
Michelle and Barack are the hottest couple ever in the history of couples. But even they – and a few other celebrity couples – need couples therapy according to our friends at TooFab. Damona breaks it down.
Feb 13th: Just as important as Feb 14
DON’T forget about Galentine’s Day in your Valentine’s Celebrations. On Feb 14th, we celebrate romantic love but Feb 13th is the day for waffles, self care, and friends. Damona gives a few suggestions on how to celebrate Galentines with some self-care rituals:
MAKE YOUR MOVE (12:30)
Today we hear from David Tutera, artistic visionary, lifestyle influencer, tv personality and celebrity wedding planner behind such shows as “My Fair Wedding”, “Wedding Cake Championship”, “My Great Big Live Wedding.”
Plus he’s a familiar face on the Today Show, Good Morning America, The View, The Talk, OWN, and so much more. We talked about A LOT:
(13:00) Valentine’s at home with kids – should you include them?
(13:55) Making this Valentine’s memorable for your pandemic bae
(16:00) Stress-free Valentine’s for singles
(19:00) More ideas on how to make your Valentine’s memorable
(20:00) Look cute on Zoom: You should always dress better than you think you should and please DEAR GOD clean up your room
(24:00) The state of weddings today
(26:00) The worst party planners David’s worked with
(28:30) What you need to know about the future of weddings
Find more from David at davidtutera.com and follow him on IG @davidtutera
TECHNICALLY DATING (36:02)
Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:
THIS EPISODE IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY TEXTNOW
The app solves many major challenges that Damona’s clients face in dating today:
We are proud to collaborate with an app that empowers modern daters to feel safe and secure. If you want more information, check out Damona’s video on when to give out your number to people you meet on dating apps. Click here!
DATES & MATES DEALS
Download OkCupid today!
OkCupid is FAMOUS for matching people on what MATTERS MOST to them, from food to the type of relationship they want…to politics. They ask you really thoughtful and provoking questions to get to the heart of who you are and what type of person you’re looking for.
Are you missing out? Download OkCupid today!
Let’s Roam: Letsroam.com/datesandmates
You need an ADVENTURE – a socially distanced one. Get Damona’s new scavenger hunt with Let’s Roam at letsroam.com/datesandmates
Patreon.com/datesandmates
Are you a fan of the show and want access to Damona’s Weekly Facebook Live Q&A? Join Damona’s Patreon FWBs – Friends with Benefits!!! – at patreon.com/datesandmates
BE OUR VALENTINE?
Damona is hosting 3 events for singles this week! Here’s what’s up:
Dating for vegetarians, flexitarians, the veggie curious with OkCupid & Sweet Earth
Imaveggielover.com
A Lesson on How To Ace Your Virtual Date with Washington Post Date Lab Team damonahoffman.com/washpost
Saturday the 14th: Valentine’s Day cooking, comedy, & love lessons with actress Mayim Bialik and comedian Pamela Rae Schuller
damonahoffman.com/cookingwithm
Make Your Move & Bridgerton Babes
STOP WAITING FOR THE FAIRYTALE & MAKE YOUR MOVE
Are you still waiting for the fairytale to happen? We hate to burst your bubble but there’s a whole pandemic happening and Prince Charming can’t leave his house.
So you’re going to have to help him out by Making Your Move and finding ways to make your own magic.
via GIPHY
Today Damona talks about modern dating with two very special guests: Jon Birger, author of Date-onomics and Make Your Move, plus Joy C Mitchell – a writer on the season’s hottest show, Bridgerton.
Here’s the rundown:
BRIDGERTON BABES (3:00)
On-Screen Romance with Bridgerton writer, Joy C. Mitchell
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Today we get the inside scoop on lessons from the writer’s room of Netflix’s hit show, Bridgerton.
(6:00) Dating in Europe – Joy’s a world traveller and actually prefers the dating scene abroad
(10:00) Gossip is women’s power
(11:00) Is socioeconomic status preventing you from finding love today?
(14:00) It’s time to go after what you want
You can find more from Joy and her world on Instagram @Joyineurope
MAKE YOUR MOVE (18:00)
Our guest Jon Birger is an award-winning magazine writer and author of two dating books — Date-onomics: How Dating Became a Lopsided Numbers Game and How Make Your Move: The New Science of Dating and Why Women Are in Charge.
via GIPHY
He’s also a face on ABC’s Good Morning America, BBC World Service, CNBC, CNN, MSNBC and so much more. Today he’s here to share an understanding of new advancements in the science of dating today and explain why women really have the power. We talked about A LOT:
(16:50) Dating Doesn’t happen magically, but you need to put yourself where the magic happens
(17:30) Everything you know about dating biology is wrong
(19:00) State your business because human beings suck at flirting
(24:00) What to do if men are intimidated by you: a case for dating 5 years younger
(29:00) Marriage ultimatums: what to do if he isn’t proposing fast enough
TECHNICALLY DATING (36:02)
Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:
THIS EPISODE IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY TEXTNOW
The app solves many major challenges that Damona’s clients face in dating today:
We are proud to collaborate with an app that empowers modern daters to feel safe and secure. If you want more information, check out Damona’s video on when to give out your number to people you meet on dating apps. Click here!
DATES & MATES DEALS
OkCupid
OkCupid expects 25 million new matches to be made this January – a big increase from last year. Are you missing out? Download OkCupid today!
Better Help
Get Better Help: real therapy, convenient and affordable. Get started today and enjoy 10% off your first month. BetterHelp.com/datesandmates
Zodiac Signs & Fake Breakups
WHAT DOES YOUR ZODIAC SAY ABOUT YOUR DESTINY?
Carol Allen, from Love Is In the Stars, returns to Dates & Mates to explain exactly how the stars impact your compatibility and destiny in love beyond just your zodiac sign. Carol is an astrologer who steers the love lives of many women based on what is written in the stars.
Damona covers headlines in the Dating Dish: Why is Lori Harvey getting so much hate over her new relationship with Michael B. Jordan and how to get a celebrity to breakup with your partner.
Plus Damona answers listener questions such as how to deal with racism from your dates and can you keep up the chemistry if you can’t meet a match online anytime soon.
Here’s the rundown:
D’S DATING DISH (2:39)
Stop hating on Lori Harvey, y’all
You may have heard that Lori Harvey (IG model, socialite, and Steve Harvey’s step daughter) is officially official with Michael B. Jordan (or Michael Bae Jordan as he is know here at Dates & Mates.)
But why does Lori get so much hate every time she announces a new relationship? Damona has thoughts.
Breakup convos too awkward? Your favorite celeb can do it for you.
It’s divorce month and if you don’t want to deliver the bad news yourself, you can hire a celebrity on Cameo to do it for you. No, Damona does not think you should.
picture courtesy of The New York Times
ZODIAC COMPATIBILITY & LOVE DESTINY (11:00)
You may have heard that love is written in the stars, but for our guest it actually is. Carol Allen is one of our very favorite astrologers here at Dates & Mates and she’s back today to give us an understanding about what zodiac compatibility truly means:
We talked about A LOT:
Don’t miss out on Carol’s personal calendar deal: trust us when we say it is worth every penny!
damonahoffman.com/mycalendar
TECHNICALLY DATING (34:30)
via GIPHY
Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:
DATES & MATES DEALS
OkCupid expects 25 million new matches to be made this January – a big increase from last year. Are you missing out? Download OkCupid today!
Get Better Help: real therapy, convenient and affordable. Get started today and enjoy 10% off your first month. BetterHelp.com/datesandmates
The Dating Secret
Last day to register at thedatingsecret.com
Get The Dating Secret
HOW TO SURVIVE THIS HEAVY ENERGY RIGHT NOW
The energy is feeling really heavy right now.
As an empath, I’ve been sensing this intensity building. It’s been impacting my clients for weeks and it’s changing my approach to dating in 2021.
This is the exact reason why, instead of doing a live 30 Day Dating Playbook like I usually do in January, I launched The Dating Secret Circle.
I believe that visualization and intention coupled with decisive action is the best way to make your dreams a reality.
This is why 90% of the people in my VIP coaching program end up in a relationship within 3 months. It’s not magic. The focus and momentum all come from my clients. It has to come from YOU.
Sure, I been coaching people for 15 years, collaborated with nearly every dating app in history, and developed a repeatable system to beat the dating odds but that is just one part of the process.
You have to believe it’s possible.
You have to be able to see your future partner coming into your life.
And you have to align your actions with that intention to make it happen.
Here’s is my biggest question for you:
How are you taking care of your heart at this chaotic time?
And a follow up…
How is the energy around us impacting your ability to connect to someone and find love?
Most people do not have a plan in place to keep themselves emotionally and spiritually balanced at a time like this. And you’d better believe what’s happening in the larger world will impact your dating life.
Most people do not have a supportive network of others who can relate to them and provide them the comfort and accountability of a like-minded group in their exact situation.
That’s because our schools haven’t taught us some of the most important skills because they can’t be measured by a test. But when you learn and practice them, your entire world shifts.
THE DATING SECRET CIRCLE is where I will share the secret sauce of mindset, Law of Attraction, empathetic dating, and energetic transformation to take you from just slogging through the apps to actually making a connection.
Do you feel like you’re doing all the steps? You’re swiping like mad, but still haven’t been able to make a real match?
Do you get exhausted, overwhelmed and discouraged by wasting time on the wrong people?
Are you holding onto memories and replaying conversations in your mind with partners of the past?
Is the uncertainty in the world right now dominating your thoughts and preventing you from even thinking about dating?
Let me help.
Let me take the worry off your plate and give you exercises to move you through this challenging time.
Let the Dating Secret Circle support you and help keep you focused on what you truly want – meaningful connections and a real relationship.
Let me guide you to think in a totally new way about dating.
You deserve a clean slate.
You deserve to be a part of The Dating Secret Circle so CLICK HERE to join NOW.
Getting Ghosted & Date Health
PROTECT YOUR HEALTH
Dr. James Simmons of Ask the NP joins Damona to talk about how to stay healthy dating in the time of COVID, ways to reduce your risk of Super Gonorrhea, and de-stigmatizing mental health.
But first, here are the headlines:
DATING DISH
Drew Barrymore Got Stood Up
Is there hope for you if Drew Barrymore is getting stood up on dates?
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21 Dating Goals
Bustle shares 21 ways to get your flirt on in 2021.
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How to Stay Safe & Still Date
Follow James Simmons at AsktheNP
DEAR DAMONA
Damona covers listener questions:
Has everyone forgotten how to communicate these days?
Should you give him a third chance if he’s canceled twice before?
Ok Cupid expects 25 million new matches to be made this January – a big increase from last year. Are you missing out? Download OkCupid today!
Try Magic Spoon: Take $5 off your first order of the healthy cereal that’s too good to be true – Magicspoon.com/dates
Get The Dating Secret – Registration is open through January 20th at thedatingsecret.com
Breakups & Peak Dating Season
NEW YEAR FOR LOVE
Happy New Year!
We have entered peak dating season – the time of year where singles are the most motivated to finally find the relationship of their dreams.
It’s not an easy topic and as you may know, January is also known as “divorce month” and we typically see an uptick in divorces and annulments.
We’re addressing breakups head on with Mark Groves – founder of Create The Love. His entire body of work is dedicated to empowering individuals to break out of the relationships that aren’t working for them.
But first, here’s the dish you may have missed over the holidays:
DATING DISH
Ariana Grande Got Engaged
Ariana said YES- but is it for sure this time?
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Dating Apps Want to Keep You Single
Do dating apps want you to stay single? Damona weighs in.
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IS IT TIME TO BREAK UP?
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Mark Groves of Create The Love and The Mark Groves Podcast joins Damona to talk about new beginnings and how to ditch dating rock bottom. Damona covers headlines: Is Ariana really tying the knot this time and do dating apps really want you to find love? ‘Dear Damona’ segment is back by popular demand: What to do with all these breadcrumb-y dudes and surely there are better pickup lines than “hey”?
Find The Mark Groves Podcast on all your favorite podcast platforms and make sure to follow him on IG @createthelove Create the Love.
Ok Cupid expects 25 million new matches to be made this January – a big increase from last year. Are you missing out? Download OkCupid today!
Get Better Help: Affordable, private online counseling. Anytime, anywhere. Start today and enjoy 10% off your first month – BetterHelp.com/datesandmates
Get The Dating Secret – Damona’s live group coaching January Program. Early bird pricing closes in a few days: thedatingsecret.com
DEAR DAMONA
Damona answers your dating questions:
What do I do about these breadcrumbing dudes?
Is there a better pickup line than hey or hello beautiful?
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Bonus: New Year, New You
VISION FOR THE NEW YEAR
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On a special episode of Dates & Mates, Damona gives a short tutorial on how to create a vision board for 2021.
Pull words, affirmations, and themes that you would like to manifest in the year.
Vision boards are an exercise Damona will use in her upcoming January Program, The Dating Secret.
NYT: 4 Ways to Ring in the New Year at Home
Few will miss saying goodbye to 2020, though most people will be celebrating the start of a new, and hopefully, a better year in a more subdued way because of the coronavirus pandemic.
Your homebound New Year’s Eve and New Year’s Day can still be romantic, nostalgic, and filled with traditions — old and new. Here are four creative and unexpectedly connective options to consider as you rethink your 2021 corona countdown.
Read the article here to check out Damona’s tips!
Dear Damona: Opposites Attract & Pandemic Dating Options
YOUR DATING QUESTIONS ANSWERED
You asked and we got answers for you. Your dating questions have been pouring in and so our holiday gift to you is an extra detailed, extra special Dear Damona.
But first, here are our headlines:
DATING DISH (3:00)
Opposites Really Do Attract
Do opposites really attract? Or are you following false attractions? Damona weighs in.
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Apocalypsing: The New Dating Trend
Is it the apocalypse or are you falling in love? Damona explains more.
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Which Sports Get the Most Swipes on Tinder
Sport retailer SportShoes ran a study to find which active hobbies were most likely to receive a swipe right.
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DEAR DAMONA (11:04)
Damona gives advice on listener questions such as:
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FOLLOW ALONG HERE:
Damona 0:00
Hello lovers, welcome to dates and mates. I am kicking things off with a hot tip. So get your notebooks ready. The best chance of finding love in 2021 is right around the corner. Dating Sunday is coming up. That’s right. Every year there is one day, one day where all of the dating apps see the most activity, and that is the first Sunday of the year. Then of course, that means that the weeks leading up to February are crucial because if you’re looking for a date for Valentine’s Day, you’re gonna be on these dating apps, you’re gonna be swiping and trying to meet people. So Mark your calendars. I am serious literally mark your calendars for dating Sunday. It’s January 3 this year. And secondary Hot Tip. The peak engagement time will be 9:30pm in your local timezone. I swear I’m not making this up. This is a real thing that happens every single year. And I don’t want you to let your time to find a partner go to waste. And if you want a partner in crime and this dating process, you can join my first ever co Ed dating Secret Circle. Yeah, I’ll be doing live group coaching during the countdown to Valentine’s Day. I must admit that was always the most stressful time of the year for me when I was single. So I really want to offer you emotional support and a roadmap so that you can implement your own dating plan to take advantage of the online dating surge, and have someone special to call your Valentine next year. Early Bird Registration is open now and you can find out the details. Plus read some of my success stories at the dating secret.com. I’ll put the link in the show notes. Now let’s get into the show.
Unknown Speaker 1:47
Are we supposed to get married gonna just
Unknown Speaker 1:49
swipe I don’t want somebody to share my life.
Damona 1:56
You can keep waiting for the fairy tale. Or you can get on board with the new rules of relationships. If you’ve read my advice in the LA Times, then you know, this ain’t your mama’s love advice. This is dates and mates with damona Hoffman. All right, lovers, you’ve asked and I will be answering today your questions I’ve been pouring in. And so my holiday gift for you is an extra detailed extra special deer demona episode. But first, you know we love these headlines, we have two opposites really attract? Or are you falling for false attractions? And is the? Is it the apocalypse? Or are you falling in love? Then I’ll answer your questions. And Dear demona, here’s what’s been on your mind. How do you find love when you don’t feel that you fit into the beauty standards around you? And how do you take your long distance online romance to the next level. All that and more on today’s dates and maids it’s time to dish these dating dish. survey says, You know I love a good dating survey. And my friends at elite singles. And one poll came through came through before the end of the year with a survey of 2000 Americans who are dating or in a relationship and ask them, they asked them about the behaviors and factors that form the basis of the compatibility of their partners. What did they find? Well, it says that people with dissimilar taste don’t necessarily have failed relationships. So you know, this idea of opposites may really attract. It said actually these differences might enhance the relationship. Here’s the interesting thing. And of course, we’ll link to the study in the show notes. I was curious about the kind of factors that they were looking at because they examined interests. They also examined habits things like cleaning habits, exercise habits, and even morning and evening routines were singled out as important factors which I would agree with maybe not the exercise habits. Also eating habits they mentioned but definitely cleaning habits. I find that that is definitely a source of frustration in my home sometimes. And even morning evening routines. Honestly, I really think the morning person, even night owl thing is a bigger I honestly think that the morning person night owl debate could be a bigger factor in your relationship than even some values based
qualities quality’s because that is lifestyle. your lifestyle really matters to whether or not you’ll be able to live with this person but Course mutual respect and understanding they said was the top factors cited by respondents as crucial to compatibility. They also said interests and goals for the future, I’m going to take issue with one of those things, you’ve probably heard my four factors of long term compatibility worth repeating, we have some new listeners. So I’ll just remind you, these are the four things you’re looking for in a relationship, you’re looking for common goals for the future, you are looking for shared values, you’re looking for mutual respect, and trust, and you are looking for conflict resolution styles being compatible. That’s it. Those are the four factors of long term compatibility. So you will know that even though 52% of respondents in this survey said that interests were that important to them, they’re actually not that important. And we get so caught up on whether or not they like the same movies that we do or whether or not they play the same games or do the same sports. But ultimately, those are interests that can change over time. And what’s going to happen to your relationship if you are bonded based on a sport for example, there was also a study by a shoe company sports shoes, to find out which active hobbies were most likely to receive a swipe right? They did something that I do not recommend. They created fake Tinder profiles and then tested how people would swipe on them based on the pictures of the activities they’re in. So I would say sorry, sports shoes, that is an epic fail, and just look out for the sports shoe profiles on Tinder. But they said that, for men yoga, weightlifting, cycling, and running were the most matched sports, and for women cycling, running and climbing. But guess what, ultimately, that is not a predictor of long term compatibility. Unless you’re like a professional cyclist. And you are like doing the Tour de France and riding around the country together. It’s not actually that important. And I’ll just reiterate, you’ve probably heard me say this on the show before, but finding someone who shares every hobby with you who can do everything with you, who’s your right hand and everything is not actually the goal. your partner’s your partner, your cycling buddies are your cycling buddies. Find me on one peloton, underscore diva Mona underscore, your running buddies, your climbing buddies that isn’t is not necessarily the role for your partner. If you can do it together, great. But don’t put too much emphasis on it because your interests may change, you may have an injury. And then if you haven’t done the work to figure out the other elements of compatibility, like the values like the goals for the future, you’re going to be standing on thin ice. And that was not a skating reference.
apocalypse thing is a new dating trend that you need to be on the lookout for according to plenty of fish. apocalypse thing is basically treating every relationship like it’s your last chance at love because we’re kind of in the apocalypse. But it’s not really the dating apocalypse. And there is sort of a, there’s a way out on the horizon, there’s a light at the end of the pandemic tunnel. But according to plenty of fish, they’re seeing this trend where people are just like, you go on a couple dates. And the next thing you know, you you jump right into it like it, they’ve known each other for your whole life. And because we are so starved now for outside, outside connection, that we just are jumping right in, like everything has the potential for long term happiness. But remember what I just said about all of those factors that need to be aligned for long term compatibility? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you might be skipping those, and moving right into a relationship out of maybe convenience out of wanting to bubble with somebody, and you don’t necessarily know and you’ll hear this also echoed in some of the questions from today’s dear demona. You don’t necessarily know that this is your forever person, but we’re treating them like they’re your forever person. So a couple of great tips from this article, which I’m sure you’ll check out when you go to the show notes at dates and mates calm is that you need to set your standards especially regarding how you want to be treated and what core values you’d like to share with your future significant other. This is like before you even meet the person, but if you’ve already met them, go ahead and do it now. And then to also write down your deal breakers. Is any of this sounding familiar to anyone has anyone heard this from any dating coach before about planning out what you’re looking for and also having a deal I give you one deal breaker but You know, you can write down all the deal breakers you want, but really drill it down to that core of what is most important to you and let that guide your decisions on who you’re going to be gifting your time to this holiday season and this COVID season. All right, we are going to take a very, very short break. When we come back, I have your answers to your questions. Is there a difference between physical exclusivity and romantic exclusivity? And can introverts and extroverts actually be a good match? And so much more, so don’t go anywhere? Welcome back to dates in May. It’s I have so many questions. I, y’all I am. So I’m so honored that you trust me with your dating advice. We have more questions than we have time to answer. So I promise you, I will continue to keep your answers in queue if your question if your question does not get answered on today’s show, but we have some hot ones. So let’s get this party started. d
Unknown Speaker 11:04
damona, help me.
Damona 11:05
This first question comes to us from my friend Amani. He’s also a podcaster. And he live streams on twitch at a money experience.
Unknown Speaker 11:15
If you meet someone on like a social media platform, like a twitch or Instagram, and you hit it off, and you’re talking, and they live in a different part of the country, so like say I’m in LA and they might live in like Miami, Florida, how would you be able to date them and actually see them if you’ve gotten to the point where you want to see each other to see if it’s really real.
Damona 11:41
You know, a lot of people say to me that they don’t like online dating, which means they don’t like dating apps, but then they might get a DM or they might connect with someone like, it sounds like maybe a Mani did on Twitch or on his Instagram. And then suddenly they find themselves in a digital romance. So it can happen to anybody at any time, even if you’ve sworn off dating apps, which in case I haven’t made my point you shouldn’t be doing right now. But anyways, back to a Manny’s question. Long Distance Love is a challenge. So the first thing you always have to do is make sure that once things are heating up, you know, maybe maybe three or four weeks into it, you have a sense of where this could go. It’s not like you’re asking for a marriage proposal after a month. But you can have questions at this point like, do you need to stay in your city for your job or for your family? Or would you ever be open to moving? Or what would it be like I wonder if we were together and I was living in say, Miami, Florida and just dip your toe in those waters first just to see how they react to those things. Because eventually, all long distance relationships, you have to end up in the same place. At some time. I have known a few people who’ve made long term long distance relationships work. But literally those people went back and forth, like twice a month at least. And I don’t know if you’re up for that. So that’s the first thing to figure out. The second thing then is to figure out also compatibility. And you will have to, at some point move offline to figure that out. Okay, I know, we’re in the middle of a global pandemic. So you might not be able to get on a plane right now. But there should be the conversation of how you could come together. So in normal times, I would tell my clients who were dating long distance, and I’ve had many success stories of people who’ve met and married someone outside of their country even. But in all those situations, within about two months, they actually met in person, because you can waste a lot of time, whether it’s somebody that’s across town or somebody that’s across the country, you can waste a ton of time talking to someone doing facetimes all the time, you know, sending pictures back and forth. I’m not saying what kind of pictures I’m just saying pictures. But if you do not have that compatibility in person, you’re wasting your time. Are you hearing me, You’re wasting your time. So you need to move things forward. So when you do do those virtual dates, if you’re in a position like Oh, say everyone is right now in the era of COVID, and you can’t meet face to face yet, make sure you make those FaceTime special. Don’t just like, Oh, well, I’ll call you after work or what have you. You have to make a plan, make a date plan, make it have an activity, you know, give it some depth to it up, give the date some depth and make it something a little bit more meaningful so that you’re deepening the relationship and not just spending time and certainly not wasting time.
My next question comes to us in an email from a woman we’ll call n she says I’m a black woman living in China. I’ve had trouble meeting people because I’m seen as ugly here. I also date women, which is still very taboo. I can’t leave due to work and school. So that’s not an option. I go out and meet people. But again, no one seems attracted to me. What can I do? Here’s the thing, and I want to make sure that you understand that this is a pool problem. So I look at like, Is this an internal problem? When I hear a question like this? Is this something that’s coming on up? Is this a mindset challenge? Is this a process challenge? Or is this a pool challenge? And to me, this is a pool challenge. you’re battling hundreds, if not 1000s, of years of racial bias, and it’s something that you alone cannot take on yourself? Does that mean that you cannot find love in China? Absolutely not. But what it means is that, you have to be very careful not to internalize that, and not to take that on to mean something about yourself. Because I’m sure you are absolutely beautiful, you are not ugly, even if the messages you feel that you’re getting in China are saying that to you. And this is an important message for people. Maybe you’re not in China, but maybe you are in I got this question yesterday on another podcast I was a guest on. She said, What if I live in a small town, and I have a different political stance, and the other people around me are what if I am a different race, and I don’t feel like I fit in here. And I have been through that. I have lived in towns where I didn’t feel like I fit into the standard of beauty in America. And it’s really important that you keep perspective on that. And also remember that it’s not about quantity. It’s about quality. So could you find that one person that appreciates who you are, and sees you for the beautiful person that you are inside and out? Could you find a woman who isn’t as concerned about the taboos of dating that you could form a relationship with? I do think the dating apps are probably going to be your best bet. Because if you are going out and constantly being based with rejection, it’s going to feel more intense. And this was a big shift for me too. When I moved to Los Angeles and found that there were tons of men who were interested in me, they just weren’t necessarily in my circle at that time. So keep the faith and keep positive if you can. And just know that the way that you’re going to make a match may mean going against the grain. But there is somebody out there who will appreciate you for all you are and all you do.
Unknown Speaker 17:53
Hi Dimona. This is Judith, I’m talking to you from Paris. I have one question for you. I was wondering, do you think we should all add a profile picture with a mask wearing a mask on because I see them more and more. And I wonder, why would people do that? And I wonder if I should take a selfie with a mask? What do you think?
Damona 18:19
Judith? I love this question. I’m really curious also what the mass culture is like in Paris, because here, it’s like a statement whether or not you’re wearing a mask. But I would say I’ve seen this too on my clients dating apps while I’m searching. And I’m not a big fan of the mask in the dating app. I know it does. It’s kind of a double edged sword, it does indicate that you are taking COVID seriously, and you’re going to follow certain precautions while you’re on a date. But at the same time, I want to see your face, I want to see it’s one of the rare opportunities, I’ll have to actually see what you look like. So I think the app is really valuable real estate, every picture you choose tells a story. And I just would hate to use that real estate to show you in a mask when I could see your gorgeous face. But that answers your question of why people would do it. But I don’t know that I would recommend you doing it unless you find in Paris like that is really the culture. I really key off in dating apps, what I see also in the style of that particular app, so it could be the app that you’re on. And if that is the thing to do on that app, then certainly you want to show you’re not an anti masker you’re if you’re a pro masker but it’s not something that I would say is an absolute profile requirement. This question comes to us from Apple on Instagram. She says I’m dating someone I met on Bumble. Yay. Did y’all hear that episode last week, the Bumble success story. Okay, moving on. She says we’ve also been virtually dating other people, but not as seriously. He wants to become physically exclusive, but not romantically yet. I agree we shouldn’t rush into premature couple status. But do you think I should have sex with him until there’s a full commitment? This is a curious question Apple, because I want to know the difference between what is physically exclusive, but not romantically yet. I guess, physically exclusive in the era of COVID. Maybe this is a new category that we can crown because that means that you’re having sex with each other, but you’re not necessarily in a committed relationship. So this is sort of a committed f web since you’re in the same bubble. But I would just ask you, apple, do you want that? Is that what you want? Or do you want something more serious? Do you want a full commitment, because if you want a commitment, you should communicate that to them. And if you want more romance, I think you need to hold him to that standard. Nothing wrong. Of course, if you decide that you do need your physical needs met, and this relationship might not blossom into something more. But it’s tough when you are physical with someone and you haven’t had the conversation about what that means to you. And then you have an expectation that because you’ve done that it’s going to grow into something else. Does that make sense? So it’s all about clarity. It’s all about expressing what you truly want, and making sure that your actions are in alignment with that, because actions as you know, are going to speak louder than words. This email comes to us from a woman named a she says, I’m a 35 year old divorced mom. After my divorce, I was in a car accident that left me with permanent brain damage. How do I put myself out there knowing that I would be relying on my long term partner to bear most of the financial responsibility? First of all, a Wow, thank you for sharing your story with us. And I’m so sorry to hear that happen to you. I’m sure it’s a challenge every day for you to do the things that used to come really easily to you. And it’s something that obviously Yes, does need to be sort of incorporated into your dating strategy. But at the same time, I don’t know that it’s something that you need to limit yourself by or make the assumption that the other person would not be okay with it. And I’ve heard some questions before people with different disabilities
making that assumption as well. So everybody, I think, needs to hear this. One, I don’t know the extent of your brain damage, but it’s possible he might not need to bear the financial responsibility there could there are a lot of ways that you can get creative with making money today. So keep open the possibility that you could find a way to be more financially independent. But secondarily, there are plenty of guys that are okay with bearing the financial responsibility. And it’s not necessarily looked at as a burden, I would look at the other things that you can offer to the relationship besides finances, and really lean into that, can you offer him comfort? can you offer him the feeling of being appreciated? Can you be a maybe be a great parent to his children, there’s so much more than I’m sure you have to offer. So don’t put that pressure on yourself to bring in the financial responsibility piece. And I don’t even really feel like it needs to enter into the conversation very early in the dating process for anyone. I think we put way too much emphasis on somebody’s financial means if you’re a grown up, and you’re taking care of your own finances, and you know, look, whether that is through disability, or other, you know, a settlement or other means, doesn’t matter. As long as your bills are paid. You don’t need anybody else to do that for you. And you don’t need to worry about someone being a drain on your resources or being a drain on somebody else’s. So go out there and just make connections a and I’m sure you will find somebody that appreciates what you’re able to bring to the table. This one comes to us from one of our friends with benefits.
Unknown Speaker 24:35
Good afternoon demona. So I’ve heard your podcast on various episodes, and I’ll actually followed your Facebook group as well. And I believe you give wonderful advice. So my question is, is that the person I’m dating here and I are opposites in that I’m very much an extrovert and he is an introvert And we follow those personalities kind of to the quiet. Well, we had a conversation and turns out that we both ping each other out of each other’s comfort zone, which is I’m sure a good thing. But my question is, is that is it good that we realize that we bring stuff out of each other? A good thing being that we have various personalities? Or do you think being a one person being an introvert and one person being an extrovert is problematic? When you want to become more, more serious in a relationship, especially now in the climate that we’re in? What would be your advice?
Damona 25:46
Okay, we talked to the top of the show about opposites attracting. Now I’m curious, introvert extrovert? Where does the where do those qualities fit into the grand scheme of values or lifestyle traits? Well, I can tell you that my husband and I are that exact match I am. case you can’t tell very high on the extrovert scale. And he is very high on the introvert scale, if you couldn’t tell from the episode that we did together a few weeks ago. And I think we do bring out the best in one another, we do get each other out of our comfort zones in a good way. And I think that is something that is helpful in a relationship. If you have somebody that really complements your skills, and your sensitivities. As long as they don’t see that as a problem or see that as an issue. I think it’s a great thing. And there have been times where I dated extroverts. And it didn’t work all that well, because somebody has to do the listening, and one of us is always talking, namely me. So I think if you’re in a relationship with somebody that makes you your best self, that can only be a good thing. By the way, that listener is actually in our Patreon Friends with Benefits group as well. So if you you heard the Facebook group that she referenced, is my patreon Fw B’s page. And I love to invite you inside that group too. You can join for just five bucks@patreon.com slash dates and mates will also put the link to that in the show notes. This question comes to us from a listener named Susan, she says I started online dating three years ago and I thought I met my person. We talked about marriage after two years of dating, but then he had to recover from a financial setback. After that, he said that he is comfortable in his current situation, and didn’t intend to remarry anytime soon. I’m considering returning to online dating but I’m so apprehensive because I don’t enjoy this method of meeting people. But because of COVID options are limited. Help exclamation point. Oh, Susan, Susan, other there’s so much here that I want to unpack for you, first of all, men. And hello to the guys listening. I’m going to talk about you for a minute. Because of our culture, men are really conditioned to need to feel that they can provide before they’re ready to move into a marriage situation, and especially if he is divorced. Sounds like you said remarry. So he was divorced. Plus, he had a financial setback. He’s feeling very insecure with his financial situation right now. And I have to let you know, it doesn’t actually have anything to do with you. It has to do with his own feelings of worth, because society has told him that he is not good enough if he doesn’t have the financial means to take care of himself and potentially also a partner. So that might be hurt. So after three years, that might be hard to hear. Because the situation isn’t going to change probably until his financial situation changes. And he may have internalized this for so long, that it may not be possible to turn it around even after he’s able to get on his feet financially. So that leaves you
that so that leaves you with the decision, Susan, you can stay in the relationship as it is without it necessarily moving towards marriage. And then you’d have to do some soul searching about what the importance of marriage is to you and whether you could stay in a relationship with somebody with a commitment that doesn’t look like the traditional marriage commitment. Or Yes, you could move on. Now honey, we got to talk about this. I don’t like the method of online dating to meet People, because one, it is the most popular way of meeting someone. And you are living proof, Susan, you met a three year relationship from dating apps. So I would say it’s working for you, you just have to remember that the app is just the connector. It’s just the way that you connect. And then once you get offline, which theoretically is within a couple of weeks, then it’s going to just unfold like another relationship you met in any other situation. And yes, because of COVID options are limited. So I’m glad you got that message. But I really want to help you embrace the apps as something that is positive, because it’s bringing so many options to you, there are so many more options for women and men, but particularly for women today, because of dating apps, there are so many women that were 40 5060 that just were out of the dating game, if they got divorced, or they they got they got broken up with after three years, they would just be like, well, I guess this is my life. Now I guess I’m going to just commit myself to my cats, and my kids and my grandkids. And that is not the case today. So let’s just see if we can flip our thinking and say, this is a situation, this is the number one way to meet people now. How can I make this tool work for me? For those of you who are also feeling maybe a little down on dating apps, or just a lot a little down on dating in general, today, in the era of COVID, I really want to support you, I strongly encourage you to check out my new dating Secret Circle, I want to invite you inside the circle, I want to give you more of my inside advice. I want to support you through this so that you can find a way I just had a client say after doing one of my last programs that she feels so much more positive about dating, more positive about men. And so this is an opportunity, I’m extending my hand to you and saying Please come inside the circle. Let me take care of you. Let me show you the way to do this. And we can all move into stronger relationships next year. And we can navigate this pandemic, it doesn’t have to be the end of love. So check that out at the dating secret.com. That’s for Susan and anyone listening who wants into the circle. It’s a co Ed circle this time, first time ever, and it begins in mid January. So get yourself into the group and get that early bird pricing which is happening. Right now we’ll put the link in the show notes. I hope you enjoyed Episode 341 of dates and mates. As always, if you want to learn more about those dating dish, as always, we’ll put the link to those dating dish stories we discussed in the show, recap at dates and mates.com. And you also have the option to join me in the Facebook friends with benefits Patreon group. And that’s just five bucks at dates and mates. And that’s just five bucks@patreon.com slash dates and mates. Hit me up on all the socials. I’m at damona Hoffman and we are already collecting questions for next month’s dear demona episode, you see how fun it was when people recorded a voice memo and you could actually hear their voices. I want to hear your voice too. So you can DM me? Or you can send me a voice memo at demona at damona hoffman.com. And please do let me know.
Unknown Speaker 33:33
I want to say let me know how you can.
Damona 33:36
And please do tell a friend about the show. We are trying to heal more hearts and get people on track for love in 2021. So do me a favor, share this episode with someone who needs to hear one of these messages. And we have to put in a call like this is the end of the season. Basically our end of the this is the last official episode of 2020. Who y’all we made it We made it to the end, I have a special bonus that’s going to be dropping. Next week. Get excited. It will be a short little snack that’ll tie you over until we are back in January. And in case you missed the memo, Tuesdays, that’s the new dates and mates day. So look out for a new episode Tuesday, January 5. And in the meantime, get yourself online for dating Sunday. So Tuesday January 5 will be the next official episode of dates in mates. I have an awesome guest, Mark groves, who’s going to be talking about healing from breakups. Moving on, and starting off the new year on the right foot. I can’t wait to share that episode with you. Hey, make sure you’re subscribed so you don’t miss it. So you know when dates and made starts on Tuesdays you’re not looking for that episode on Monday. Go on what happened? It’s gonna land right in your in your podcast feed Tuesday morning. If you’re subscribed I wish you all the best for this holiday season. Hang in there more coming your way and 2021 until then, I wish you happy dating
The Bumble Blueprint & Linguistic Love Cues
NOW IS THE TIME FOR LOVE
The pandemic has been a wild rollercoaster ride of love for so many people. At the beginning Damona advised everyone should embrace virtual dates, then we moved onto social distance dates then back to virtual dates again.
You wonder, “But Damona, how can you actually make a connection that way?”
Kyle and Olivia from Atlanta, met on Bumble, and we can’t wait to share with you how it all went down so you can learn how you too could find love right now.
But first, our dating dish.
DATING DISH (3:16)
The Year in Swipe
Tinder spills all the tea in 2020’s Year in Swipe Report.
via GIPHY
Sparks Fly on Virtual Dates, But Not So Much in Real Life
If you’re feeling the connection on virtual dates, you might not have in-person chemistry. Damona weighs in.
via GIPHY
How to Win Someone Over
The Harvard Business Review teaches us how to win someone over.
via GIPHY
LOVE IN THE TIME OF CORONA (12:50)
Kyle and Olivia found love in 2020 on Bumble. They share exactly how it happened and what timeline you can expect with your Bumble Boo – or POF Person, Tinder Tie-Up, Facebook Dating Friend with Benefits… etc.
via GIPHY
FOLLOW ALONG HERE:
Unknown Speaker 0:00
It’s a tale as old as time. He’s handsome, debonair. She’s pretty and sweet. They lock eyes across the room.
Damona 0:10
Okay, hold on. Honey, you need to get your facts straight. Finding love today is more like Greece posts to get my
Unknown Speaker 0:18
swipe was invited to share my life.
Unknown Speaker 0:21
What does this text mean?
Unknown Speaker 0:22
Maybe he’s just not that into me is this relationship going anywhere,
Damona 0:26
you can keep waiting for the fairytale. Or you can get on board with the new rules of relationships. If you’ve read my advice in the LA Times, then you know, this ain’t your mama’s love advice. This is dates in mates with damona Hoffman. Hello, lovers, welcome to dates and mates, happy holidays, happy almost time for a vaccine day. Whoo, this pandemic, it’s been a wild roller coaster ride a love for so many people. You know, at the beginning, I advised you, you should embrace virtual dates. And then we moved into social distance dates. But then with the spike in numbers, I was like, Nah, you need to go back to the virtual dates. And you said but damona? Maybe you didn’t say it like that. But you were like, how can you actually make a connection that way. And I told the same thing to my clients. And I said that the process is the same, you know, I have a dating process. It’s the same even though it might be happening virtually. But it takes at least three months of really committing to a dating plan, usually, for my clients to finally see a shift. And I have to admit, in November, spirits were low, many of my clients wanted to throw in the towel. And some of them even doubted that system would still work in a pandemic. And they thought maybe this just wasn’t their season for love. After we did our single hit episode. So many people said to me, like yeah, I’m tapping out. Thanks for thanks for giving me the out Dimona, I’m out of here. But you know what I have, I got three different emails this week from clients who have moved literally from basically hopelessness into almost exclusivity in just a couple weeks. And I got to meet incredible couple who connected virtually at the height of the pandemic, and their relationship couldn’t be stronger. So I am a big believer in virtual love. And I also believe that even in the midst of a pandemic, you could still have your season to meet someone if you want it. I’ll be talking to Kyle and Olivia from Atlanta, they met on Bumble. And I cannot wait to share with you how it all went down. So you can learn how you too could find love right now. But first, you know, I like to do these headlines. And there’s a lot happening. Tinder spills all the tea in there 2020 year and swipe report. And watch out if you’re feeling the connection on virtual dates you might not have in person chemistry. Plus, the Harvard Business Review teaches us how to win someone over. Oh, that one is a brain bender. And there’s so much more coming up on dates and mates today. Now it’s time for the dish, these dating dish. Y’all know I love a good report. And Tinder. Tinder is the number one dating app. So I trust their data. And I love digging into it to know what’s really going on what’s happening on the front lines of dating apps today. So that I can tell you, and there is a lot in here that was super juicy. We covered this report last year, I think was the first year that they did it. And obviously, when you think back to December 2019, to where we are today, what a difference a year makes, obviously, more messaging and more swiping they were up nearly double digits by the end of the year compared with even just February of this year, which is usually high season for the dating apps between January and February. That’s when they see the big spike in new users. We spiked double digits beyond that. And of course the pickup game change the pickup lines started shifting even as early as March they started hearing a lot of quarantine and chill, you know, you know, they’re they can track what people are saying in their messages. They base people got real corny with this, they were like let’s be like COVID and catch each other or wash your hands so you can hold mine. I don’t recommend any pickup lines like that, but I’m sure it made a couple of people giggle and maybe led to some connections. And there were also evolutions in the emoji usage I covered last year how the facepalm was the big emoji of 2019 we have evolved it’s no longer the facepalm it’s not even in the top 10 maybe that’s just because We don’t want to have our hands in our face, because we know that we could transmit COVID that way.
Now the most common apps are the, you know, the shrug emoji that like, What? What’s up? everybody’s like, I don’t know what’s happening. It’s COVID. Of course, the the mask emoji that one that’s obviously genius, and toilet paper, and grocery carts, which I didn’t even know, were emojis. I literally didn’t know that those existed in the emoji keyboard. But now they’re really hot on Tinder. Should you use them to make a connection? I think you could do better, I think you could talk about something a little bit more with more depth to it. They also saw that politics were a hotter topic than before. People lay down those political deal breakers, right in their bios, I said that in episodes leading up to the election, and also mentions of Black Lives Matter on the platform were up 55 times amid, you know, you know what happened, you know, you know, so you know, Black Lives Matter has been a thing for a long time. But of course, this year, people are talking about it in a new way and talk of voting doubled in the months leading up to the 2020 election. So that’s what’s on everybody’s mind. But I really feel like there’s been a shift in the dating landscape. Even just since the election ended, I feel like people in the last month have become a lot more open to dating. But of course, as numbers are spiking, you have to be safe. So the New York Times tells us how you can make a connection on a virtual date. Of course, as I mentioned, at the top of the show, at the beginning of the pandemic, everybody turned to video dating to make connections like we were all just grabbing at straws, like I’m stuck here this house I need human connection. And then we really fatigued over the the whole virtual dates and just being on zoom for the whole day. Like now I have to have a zoom date. That’s not cute. So this article really examines how to make a connection over video and they told some stories of people who thought that they had a connection over video. But once they met face to face, they didn’t always feel that spark anymore. They interviewed this behavioral expert, she’s based in Amsterdam, so she has a name that I’m probably going to butcher and Marja ood is how I’m told it is said, people are going to correct me I’m sure on it. But I think things must be really different in Amsterdam, because she recommended that you want to really give a person a sense of what you look like on camera. So she said show yourself fully by standing up and turning around for a clear view of how you look even if it feels awkward. And no, no, not in my book. Okay, so you can play by Anne’s book, or you can play by the damona Hoffman dates and maids rule book, that is weird, do not do it, you also have to leave something to the imagination. And I really don’t think that it’s going to help you at all to to show your body moving on. Unless you have like a reason like you’re gonna make it cool. Like we’re gonna do a dance off. If the person is into dancer if even though they’ve had like six gmts or something. But otherwise, no, just stay seated and just be regular. Okay, just be normal, be your normal self.
And also focus on listening, of course and asking good questions, but also creating more interaction. You’ve heard me say this before gamify the date play 20 questions like really make it more than just like feeling like a work meeting. And then of course, they say, as soon as it’s safe, try to get offline and meet face to face as soon as possible. That is the same thing that I say. And I just did a refinery 29 interview last week and and the writer was asking me about how quickly it should progress if you’re in the virtual date phase. And now we can’t really go on social distance dates too easily. And I really feel like it’s the same timeline. It’s just that now we can’t, we can’t move offline as quickly. So you need to make those virtual dates feel a little bit juicy or but still after, I would say probably two or three max virtual dates, like put on your snow pants and figure out a way to actually connect face to face because I do think that face to face connection is really important. And you’re going to hear a little bit more about that experience as I talk to our Bumble couple in just a moment. And if you’re wondering how to make that great connection when you do meet face to face. This is this. This is a little bit of a twist for dates and mates. We actually took a page out of the Harvard Business review for you this week on how to win someone over. So this is not a dating article or study like we normally report on this was actually a study about lawyers and how they win over judges but producer Leone, I thought it was so fascinating because a lot of the advice that they give is the same thing that I tell my clients about mirroring, linguistic mirroring, and even body language mirroring. So in this article, which of course will link to in the show notes at dates and mates calm. It said, when you mirror your counterparts preferred communication style, they’re more likely to find you convincing or feel familiar or authentic. And that is really a big part of the connection. Like what what are people looking for, they’re not looking to be impressed by you, they’re not looking to have you list off all of the wonderful things about you and your your house and your boat, and your dog and your your job. And like all these things that that make us feel like we have value in today’s society know, somebody wants to feel like they connect with you that they feel like you’re real, and they feel seen by you and like you get them. And linguistic mirroring is something that happens naturally, when you feel a connection to someone but hot tip you can actually create more connection by intentionally mirroring their linguistic flow, like the way that they speak their inflection, their tone, their volume. And that’s just one little piece of the pie. Obviously, I have tons more than I could tell you. I share a lot of it with our Patreon friends with benefits in our little secret private Facebook group. So if you want to get more tips on flirting or more tips on virtual dates, make sure you check us out@patreon.com slash dates and mates you can join there for just five bucks. When I come back, I will have the cutest couple that I have ever seen. who met on Bumble in the middle of a pandemic. And I feel hopeful I’m in a relationship and they made me feel hopeful. So I’m really hoping that they make you feel hopeful as well. So stick around. Welcome back to dates and mates. I know you’ve probably thought once or twice about giving up on finding love in a pandemic. But it’s time to think about it just one more time and maybe change your mind. I am here with Kyle and Olivia, they live in Atlanta. And they found love on Bumble in 2020. Yes, in the middle of a pandemic. So if you’ve been down on the dating apps, give me a chance to prove you wrong today. Please help me give big smooches to my guests, Kyle and Olivia.
Unknown Speaker 12:50
Hi, guys.
Damona 12:52
I’m so glad you could be here with me. Let me tell you people are out here and these online dating streets struggling they are struggling. So first of all, congratulations to you for finding one another at a time like this. But I want to hear I want to hear everything I want to hear the good, the bad and the ugly, the ups and the downs. And how you came to find each other on Bumble finally. So you’re not new to dating apps. Right? Olivia, you’ve done this before you had done this before about the dance.
Unknown Speaker 13:30
The dance is a tango. And sometimes you win sometimes you lose. But I will say I’ve been on Tinder I’ve been on hinge I’ve been on Bumble Bumble has always been my favorite. To be honest. I think that people on Bumble are more serious about relationships or finding a relationship rather than the hookup culture that has now been created. And I can honestly say I was struggling to before I met Kyle of but I found it I decided to just try Bumble again at the top of the pandemic, there really wasn’t much going on. I was going to work on home structure and it seemed indefinite. And so I was balancing working from home I had a roommate at the time who did the bumblebee line and encouraged me to actually do it as well. And I did it first. In March. I think it was more of like the middle of March and match with some guys, but that fizzled out. And so I kind of was disheartened. So I was kind of in the mindset of I’m not doing it anymore. I don’t want to be on Bumble. This is terrible. The pandemics not gonna last that long. But then I really said no. Try it again. See what happens. So I said okay, fine. I’ll take the bat Beeline. I’ll do it one more time. And then I saw Kyle and my Beeline and I matched with him and we just kind of took it from there.
Damona 14:49
Whoo. I can’t wait to hear all the juiciness of what happened once you met but I got to hear from you, Kyle. Did you have a similar experience with dating apps before?
Unknown Speaker 14:59
Sure. Bumble was the only dating app that I had ever tried. I liked it so much because it puts women in the driver’s seat. And sometimes that’s half the battle. And, you know, you have to reach out to them like another apps that I’ve heard on, he had to reach out to them. He had to hope they’re interested, but it makes makes women kind of like, you know, the aggressor in a way, like, okay, like, I want you and you guys match. So I like that. I really like that because they have to come outside their comfort zone. So um, that’s why
Damona 15:42
I am seeing a look from Olivia right now. Like when you said it makes women the aggressor. What was that?
Unknown Speaker 15:47
Look?
Unknown Speaker 15:48
I guess my leg was kind of I feel like maybe I cheated at that. Because Because with the Beeline, what’s so great about is that you see guys that already like to you. So I kind of knew he was already interested. I wasn’t swiping to see if you know, if we match. It was kind of like, oh, he already likes me. So I can swipe. And we’re just an automatic match. I think I kind of cheated.
Damona 16:13
Was that your your strategy? Like? Did you have a dating app strategy?
Unknown Speaker 16:18
No, I honestly, this was my second time using the Beeline but I’ve never used the Beeline prior to the pandemic, I think that I was at a point where I wanted to leave through even more the people that I wasn’t interested in and kind of get a leg up because I do like Bumble because the woman takes the first has the first move. But at the same time, you could match or swipe with so many people and reach out to them. And then they don’t reply back or they take too long to reply back. So I think that the Beeline really helped me kind of propel or push faster into getting to know someone because I knew they already liked me. And it was a quicker start to the conversation. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 16:58
definitely.
Damona 16:59
Kyle, did you what How did you meet women before?
Unknown Speaker 17:04
Oh, before Bumble.
Damona 17:07
Yeah. Or had you been doing Bumble for a long time. And that was like your that was your main dating app squeeze.
Unknown Speaker 17:12
I was doing Bumble for all of 2019 um, and it was exhausting. be socially exhausting, because I was I was going on so many first dates. And you know, they would just like live said just fizzle out. And but I kept you know, going back to and then I would stop, you know, I, I kind of I am gonna chill for a minute, then I go back and then I was stopped. So before that on it. Honestly, I was pretty. I was pretty like oblivious. I was really like in my work. And that’s all I was doing. And I was in a long, like a long term relationship before that. So I really didn’t know anything about like the new dating world and dating apps or, you know, tenders or anything like that. So, um,
Damona 18:03
that’s the way to do it. Olivia, you got to get them while they’re fresh, fresh meat. You know, not all that baggage. All those you know, ideas about it, you just go in there, get the Beeline and snatch them. No. No, I do want to know how it actually worked. Once you matched How long did you communicate on the app before you move to the next step? And what was that next step when you did?
Unknown Speaker 18:31
Oh, wow. So I think it was maybe the same day, right? The same day we matched
Unknown Speaker 18:37
Yes.
Unknown Speaker 18:37
We talked the same
Unknown Speaker 18:38
day we matched we talked for I think though the whole day on the app. And you know, just try to get a feel for each other. And, and I know, at that point, being on the app, I was asking questions, like we’re not getting off this app to you know, you answered this, this this I was
Damona 18:57
gonna interview Olivia sometimes,
Unknown Speaker 19:00
because I was asking my list of questions too. And I was gonna say like one thing about us, our profiles kind of have a similar message where his profile said, you know, I’m looking for somebody to take me off of this app. And my profile says something along the lines of like, I’m looking for the last gentleman out there to you know, match with and see where it goes. So when we got into a conversation on that it kind of just flowed into, okay, what do you like, how has the pandemic been for you? What have you been watching? What are you looking for? Are you looking for something serious? And we talked for the remaining remainder of the day into the evening? And then Kyle quickly told me he had work the next morning, so he couldn’t talk to me anymore. Um,
Damona 19:44
so sounds like your feelings were a little bit hurt in that moment.
Unknown Speaker 19:48
He still brings that up. But it was really nice because it to me is showing me my priorities. And I’m like, if he takes his priorities that seriously, I want to be one of those priorities. So I gave him my phone number. And then we quickly took it off the app the next day.
Damona 20:06
Okay, so talk me through that that step Did you gave you gave your phone number to him. Kyle, were you nervous to give her a call? What are you feeling?
Unknown Speaker 20:18
So story? Yes. So the story is, I, I like I have a very dry sensing where I have a very unique sense of humor. So what I did the next day, because I didn’t wait, I don’t believe in the whole all you got to wait a week, and I don’t have time for the game. So what I did was I text her and I told her, Hey, this is Brandon. And she’s like Brandon, Fran, and who? And I was like, you know, remember we met at the club? Or, you know, I made up some elaborate story. And she, she, she kept like, you know, who is this? Or like, when Where did I go to the club? Where what bars like, wow, you don’t remember our conversation, and all that. So finally, she asked for a picture. I’m like, Ah, man, I don’t want the joke to be over just yet. So I sent her a baby picture. And
Unknown Speaker 21:12
I love being blocked.
Unknown Speaker 21:13
Yeah. And I felt it. My spirit. So finally. Finally, I was just like, No, no, just kidding. This is Kyle. And yeah, before I got blocked, because I guess apparently I was
Damona 21:28
so close. Okay, so you’re still just like you were in the app messaging. And now you’re still just messaging but on your phone?
Unknown Speaker 21:35
Yes.
Damona 21:36
So when did you make it make real like real contact?
Unknown Speaker 21:40
So we messaged on the phone once I realized he wasn’t Brandon. And the job was over. And it was kind of it was at first it was funny, because I’m like, No, this is Kyle. I’m saying it in the text. I was like, No, I don’t know. Kyle is Brandon. Okay, this is embarrassing. So you’re going to get blocked very quickly. Um, but the joke subsided and we started conversations, we started talking and I feel like that same day, he FaceTime me for the first time. And so this was April 8. Okay, sorry, talking April 7. Um, and so he based on me, we FaceTime every day after that. We went on our first virtual date which
Damona 22:18
Wait, hold on, before you get into the virtual day, I have to pause because the FaceTime This is a point of contention for me and a lot of my clients here. Did you just just out of the blue FaceTime? Or did you make a plan to cut to FaceTime her?
Unknown Speaker 22:35
I don’t know if I honestly, I don’t know, if I actually made a plan did we
Unknown Speaker 22:40
know you FaceTime me out of nowhere, which I know is quite taboo.
Unknown Speaker 22:43
I don’t know, you’re allowed to just FaceTime out of nowhere, you just meet someone, um,
Damona 22:48
did she pick up.
Unknown Speaker 22:50
So I picked up and I quickly had to get my life together. I didn’t miss the FaceTime call. Um, but because I was already home, I’m kind of doing the meat of Zoo meetings and things like that I was already okay. So when I picked up for him, I was able to talk to them. Um, and the conversation was very normal. And it was like I knew him. Like we were already friends. We talked, we crack jokes about things we were interested in, we talked about our day. Um, so it actually played out really well for us. And then we facetimed all the time after that really didn’t use the phone. And we texted a lot when we couldn’t talk. If he had meetings, I had meetings doing stuff. And I think we had that mutual respect of we don’t want to call her talk constantly, or didn’t want to be needy or desperate. But we had enough where I felt like at least for him as a guy. He was still showing interest in me. So I was feeding that back.
Damona 23:45
And at this point, in the pandemic, things were still very locked down. It’s not like you could just be like, hey, let’s go grab a drink, maybe would that have been what you would do in normal times? And the pace timing was sort of a substitute for a real date?
Unknown Speaker 23:59
Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, we definitely would have like to go out or anything like that, but we kind of had to, like do the virtual dates and things. So yeah, it was definitely a new experience. adjustment.
Damona 24:15
So how long are you going back and forth on FaceTime before you decide to actually mate?
Unknown Speaker 24:21
Wow. Oh, that
Unknown Speaker 24:23
was at least a month.
Unknown Speaker 24:26
Yeah, I think it was like a month.
Unknown Speaker 24:27
So I was a little bit more paranoid at the time. I had a roommate and she was a nurse at chellah. So Children’s Healthcare of Atlanta. So I was living with somebody who was saying the front lines is this is serious, this is going to get worse. And so he was very interested in doing virtual dates, but sending me food be Uber Eats or doordash. And so it was a sweet idea because we were supposed to eat dinner together and watch like a movie virtually or tune into what was it the Teddy Riley Baby, baby. So we watch different things together, but I I was like, I don’t First off, I’m not eating outside of my house. I don’t want to eat anything from anyone else. And then at the time, I also didn’t want to give him my address. I really didn’t know him.
Unknown Speaker 25:09
She shut me down.
Unknown Speaker 25:11
I shut him down a couple of times, um, for the food, but I gave it we gave it about a month. Mm hmm. Because everybody was saying at the time, you know, two weeks 14 days quarantining, so I kind of said, All right, it’s been a month, he hasn’t shown any symptoms. I talked to him sunup to sundown, and I haven’t heard him call once. So maybe we can meet. Um, and I was very particular about our meeting, it had to be outside. I wanted it to be during the day, and I wanted it to be at least close enough to me, or to you where we weren’t driving out of the way because you have to be safe, like as a woman and you have to be safe. And you know, during the panel, you know, side a lot of rule. Lots of rules somebody put up with
Damona 25:56
Kyle, did you have any? any qualms about meeting her? She’s living with a nurse who was on the front lines? Would did that make you nervous at all?
Unknown Speaker 26:07
Um, honestly, no. Because she was so like, in a bubble. Even though like, you know, that she mentioned her roommate was a nurse, but still, she was so much in her bubble. Like she said, I wouldn’t. I wasn’t even able to send food to her. She wasn’t even getting like takeout or anything. So I was like, Okay, well, if anybody would, you know, probably be mean, but. So we were fine with that. Yeah, we were I was fine with it.
Damona 26:32
Okay, so where did you go when you finally couldn’t meet up?
Unknown Speaker 26:37
When you walk?
Damona 26:41
You know, say that one more time.
Unknown Speaker 26:42
We took a walk. Where?
Unknown Speaker 26:45
Yeah. So he was still going into his office. I was working from home. And yeah, exactly. But it was social distance. There wasn’t a lot of people in his office. They were still being safe. But he was in his office during the day. So I took a lunch break from work. And I said, Okay, well, I’ll come see you on my lunch break. And then we can take a walk. He said he actually he actually came up with it. He said we could take a walk near his job because there was a kind of Plaza restaurant area near his job. So he said, I want to it all the time from my lunch break. So we could just take lunch together. And I said, Okay, well, I’m not eating anywhere, but we can take the walk. He said, Okay, so I dropped his job. And I got out the car. And we met for the first time we gave each other hug. We went on this walk
Damona 27:35
mask and you’re fully masked, right? Or no, this is before masks were mandated.
Unknown Speaker 27:40
Yeah. For mask or mandated. So we know masks. I’m walking talking with people weren’t around as if we saw people, we went a different way. Yeah. Um, you wanted to get out here.
Damona 27:56
I want to know what your first impressions were. Because that that transition is sometimes unexpected for people when they move from the from the app or from FaceTime to actually seeing each other. Kyle, what did you think the minute you first saw her in real life?
Unknown Speaker 28:12
So first off, she was as cute as she is now. Um, so what she was, she had just like a glow about her. And I really appreciated that. We just saw each other. And it was like, Oh, there you are. Oh, there you are. But it was it was like a comfortable feeling. Like there wasn’t there wasn’t any nervousness or anything like that. So that’s something that I definitely took notice of because we were on that walk. And it wasn’t like it wasn’t uncomfortable. I don’t think it was just very
Unknown Speaker 28:46
agreeable. I was definitely nervous
Unknown Speaker 28:49
a lot. I wasn’t.
Unknown Speaker 28:51
I was nervous, because I had talked to this person every day for a month. And I like you know, the fear. I guess for me, online dating is you grow this relationship with someone and then it could be a catfish, or that person could be crazy. Or they could have that intention. So it was a little nerve wracking to finally meet this guy that I was so interested in and like gel so well that I was like, Oh my gosh, I hope normal. I hope he likes me. I hope I was cute. I hope it doesn’t rain, I hope and just so many things. Because Yeah, so I think the thing I was definitely a little bit nervous. But as we walk the conversation flowed the same way it did on our own calls, so I felt more and more comfortable.
Damona 29:30
Could you tell she was nervous, Kyle?
Unknown Speaker 29:33
I couldn’t, honestly until until just now I didn’t know that she was nervous. But as we took our walk, we you could just tell that I think that you became more and more comfortable. And by the end of the walk, it was like Okay, so this is it. Yeah.
Damona 29:51
So considering there’s a pandemic, and you’re probably not on the app talking to other people, I’m guessing. I don’t want to step in any Thing awkward. No, we
Unknown Speaker 30:02
talked about that too. Um, I wasn’t talking to anybody. When I was in when I initially matched with Kyle, I matched with other guys. But our conversation went so well. And I really was losing hope. So I was kind of like, you know what this conversation so I’ll focus only on this person. And so I didn’t have anybody else. I was juggling at the time it was solely talking
Unknown Speaker 30:23
to him. Yeah. When when we matched, and we started talking, um, I think after we FaceTime, I completely like just, even though even though we didn’t have that initial conversation of exclusivity, I like, put my thing on Do Not Disturb. Because I don’t like no distractions or anything like cool. I want to focus on this. And I think even I’m sorry, to whoever or she’s listening. But somebody gave me their number. Wow, like we were in, I just didn’t even use it. Right. So they’re kind of just out there in the lurch.
Damona 31:02
Oh, but that happens so much, right? That happens a lot. These sort of unmet expectations. I also wanted to address what you said Olivia, about, that the nervousness coming from all that expectation, you’d spent a month getting to know each other. And usually in regular times, I would tell my clients move offline as quickly as possible, you need to see if this is the real deal in the real world. And so there’s less expectation, but you can’t do that in the middle of a pandemic. And even though we had a summer that was a little bit more lacks, in a lot of places where I’m in Los Angeles, things are locked down, and no outdoor dining whatsoever. And a lot of my a lot of my clients and listeners in different places, as the weather is turning, they can’t do dates. They can’t do dates outdoors anymore. And they’re really struggling with that moving the relationship forward. But that fear of what if what if he’s not what I expected him to be, can sometimes keep you in that state of limbo?
Unknown Speaker 32:08
No, definitely. I think that it was a, a not a big fear, especially not on the first date. Because I had, I had gone through the rinse and repeat of online dating where you go on a date with somebody, and maybe it works and it’s great and you want another date and then somehow it fizzles out or it just you know, on that first date, this is never happening again. So I kind of walked into it like okay, this is something that never happens again. I guess I just chalked up another month of my life, doing the rinse and repeat of online dating. But I did go into it very hopeful because we had such a great year. Yeah, it’s like I can’t I know it sounds really cliche, but it’s like I knew him already. It’s like, we were already friends. It was like he just meshed so well with me. And I mesh so well with him that it just really worked. And like he said, I kind of got more comfortable throughout the date itself, because we ended up sitting down on some steps that outside of a church. And then I kind of just leaned and put my head on his shoulder and he put his head on mine. And then I think in that moment I knew okay. Yeah, see where this goes. And I think that we walked back to my car, he walking back to my car, and we were both on conference calls. So we’re still trying to work from home and I under I appreciated his hustle, hustle. I appreciated him being understanding that I slept at work he slashed to where it was a lot of things that we were still making sure that our priorities got taken care of. But we were still making sure we had time for one another.
Damona 33:39
Do you think that you did something different in the staging process? And I’m also curious, do you think COVID and the pandemic and lockdown had an effect on YouTube being able to meet Do you think it would have played out? Maybe differently? If you had met it another time?
Unknown Speaker 34:00
I always say yes. I always say I don’t think that we would have met at a pandemic because
Damona 34:06
I or outside of a pandemic.
Unknown Speaker 34:08
Yeah, outside the pandemic. It was just that that point. I feel like I was more like I’m kind of tired of dating and like when the pandemic hit, I was just like, Alright, let’s see, just one more time. That was my one more time. So it was Kismet, obviously. But yeah, that was my one more time but I always say if it was regular. Now, because I was doing that already the year before I would like have long hiatuses of just not going back on Bumble.
Damona 34:43
What would you say was different? I mean, aside from the global pandemic, do you feel like it had something to do with the way that you paced the relationship getting to know each other over FaceTime or something else that was happening internally.
Unknown Speaker 35:00
Oh, um, we definitely FaceTime more that helped, um, probably more than like when I would, when I was dating previously, that really helped because that believe it or not gave some type of interaction more interaction than just regular talking on the phone. You know, I got to we got to see each other laugh, which is really important. We got to like, as as funny as it may sound like each other in the eye when we’re talking. So it definitely added to the closest right before we met. Mm hmm.
Unknown Speaker 35:41
Was it the same,
Unknown Speaker 35:41
I always say, we would have probably met outside of the pandemic, I think it would have just taken us a little bit longer. I don’t only because he has friends that were in the same area, like people, he has this other business partners, friends, things like that. He, they were in the same place as me and different events the year prior, like during Halloween and things like that, when we were actually able to be out. And so I said, You know, I probably would have ended up at an event you were at, and then we may have met and started talking. But then he says I would have been focused on doing whatever I was doing, I was able to pay attention to you. I would have made you like hello, hi, I would have still pursued you with my personality. But I
Unknown Speaker 36:26
don’t know, I don’t I don’t think so personally, but she says that thing, you know, maybe
Damona 36:31
funny. My husband who was actually on a couple episodes ago, when we met we actually had some mutual friends in common. But we met online. And we know of at least two parties that we were both at and may or may not have met but he says he wouldn’t. He was like, he’s very introverted. He probably wouldn’t have have said anything to me. So like through the app, he was able to gain the confidence and find the right words. And yeah, you know, make the make the right moves. I’m curious how long before you had an actual real date? Or have you? Have you even had a real date? Like, as much as we can in a pandemic? Okay,
Unknown Speaker 37:13
we actually did have our real day and it was perfect because it
Unknown Speaker 37:19
was cookie friendly.
Unknown Speaker 37:19
Yeah, it was inadvertently quote COVID friendly. So we went to the driving. And we went to yet we went to go see a movie at the drive in. But you see bad boys for life? Yeah. So yeah, we went to we went to see bad boys for life. And that tacos first we got tacos from my favorite taco spot. And yeah, and it was just us in the car watching the movie. And I think that it was, that was a great intimate moment for us. Because just us very, right. There’s nobody, like, you know, popcorn spilling on you because somebody else and further, you know, the back or whatever. So it was good. That was our I believe that was our first one. Yeah, we
Unknown Speaker 38:07
hung out. Like I came over and watch movies at his house once I realized that he wasn’t weird and that this was Um, but yeah, we hung out at his house. And then he said, You know, I’m, I want us to do a date. I have a plan. And so that’s one thing that I really appreciate about him is that he is very take charge. And he is very romantic, even though he thinks he’s not I’m very like, into romcoms. He’s, but he’s very romancing and he made a plan. And he said, We’re going somewhere somewhere. Okay, whatever. It was kind of a surprise for me. You didn’t tell me where we were going. He said, we’re gonna get tacos with you both love tacos. So this was perfect. And then he was like, and then we pulled up and I’m like, I’ve been here before. sighs Oh, gosh,
Unknown Speaker 38:48
we’re gonna drive
Unknown Speaker 38:49
and he’s like, yeah, we want to drive in. I want to take you on a day to something COVID friendly, cuz I know you didn’t want to be outside of the house. So I really appreciated it and taking the time to make sure that I was comfortable. And then like you said it was more of an intimate date. Because it was us it was our food. There was nobody really around, you’re playing on the radio. So it was really, really nice and really sweet. And so that was our first in person real date.
Damona 39:15
It’s like the 1950s is kind of romantic. You have your own little bubble there. So speaking of speaking of your bubble, what does it look like? Now? How have you How has the relationship progressed? And like? Olivia, do you have different rules now? Are you eating at other people’s houses? Are you eating at the same house? What’s going on?
Unknown Speaker 39:38
Um, I think I’m, I’m a little bit less with him at least, but like less cautious. I think that we spend a lot of time together whether I’m at his house or he’s at my house. But I don’t think that outside of our relationship. We i’m not i’m still very mask oriented. We have hand sanitizer in our cars. I actually bought him mask, I put masks in his car. And it kind of turned because where I was. So trying to be on guard and trying to set the tone of we need to be careful, we need to be cautious. You need to wear your mask. I think there was a point in what, June or July where I would just get out of the car to go to the supermarket and his keys fully man, I
Unknown Speaker 40:18
don’t have my mask on. And she
Unknown Speaker 40:20
said, What are you doing? And I’m like, What do you mean? So it kind of shifted. And so now it keeps me on top of things, because I’m like, trying to remember Oh, yeah, mask everything. So I think it kind of works out, I feel like our relationship works really well because of a balance. And we’re very balanced in the sense of being precautious for one another, and we do eat out. But where we eat, we make sure the restaurant social distance that they’re wearing masks, we wear masks, when we’re around other people, we tend to be outside, so we’re eating out less now that it’s colder in Atlanta. But um, I think I think that we try to be as cautious as we can. Yeah, um, especially the longer we’re dating, you know, now we’re looking at, you know, blending the families, having my parents meet his parents, having him meet my parents, he’s met my dad, my needs met my sister. So just trying to be cautious in those ways too. Because as we get, you know, as we continue to grow our bond, we don’t want to miss out on the opportunity to continue our life together and stay in just that bubble, our bubble has to somewhat expand just a little bit, just a little bit. But we want to make sure at least I don’t want to be free. But I want to make sure that we can still move forward and progress forward in a positive manner, we
Unknown Speaker 41:37
still have to have those temples of different moments where as long as there’s social distance, and it’s safe for us to continue our relationship as normal as we can.
Damona 41:50
That’s all we’re striving for. As we can be, what advice, tips, inspiration do you have for anyone listening? Who is at this point where so many of my listeners have written in about this phase of COVID and being locked down again. And just the fatigue, they’re fatigued of dating apps, they’re fatigued of texts that go nowhere? They’re just, you know, overwhelmed by the fear of COVID? And how do you even date when you can’t even leave your house? What would you say to them,
Unknown Speaker 42:25
um, it’s possible, it’s very, very possible, you have to be a little more creative. And honestly, you’re going to, this is a great way to weed some some people out, because all you have is conversation, it depends on your level of like, you know, safety as far as COVID goes, but you all you have this conversation with us, I think is great that we met during the pandemic, if you know, the pandemic itself is very unfortunate. But we had our relationship in reverse. We were, we couldn’t go anywhere. So everything was just, you know, finding things to do around the house. Like we we did games where we would know each like find out about each other and ask questions. We had game nights, we had all kinds of stuff. So it makes you more creative. And we didn’t, we didn’t go out like barely, we barely went out. So now we’re just it’s like everyday life. And we did that first. So you have to be ready to, you know, if you do talk to somebody during a pandemic, you have to be ready to do, do things kind of reverse and really get to know them. And it’s honestly, it’s pretty rewarding to them.
Unknown Speaker 43:47
No, definitely, I think my advice would be to always be your genuine self, especially right now. I think that some of the conversations or some of the interactions that other people will have, be open to a friendship. I think that’s also something I think that when I met him and I smashed with him, I was like, Okay, if I get a great guy that I can talk to, and another friend that I can make in this pandemic, then that would be great to because at this point, I had a roommate, so I had social interaction. And I was doing some parties with my sister in New York and her friends. So I had some type of social interaction, but it would have been It was like, Okay, I’m gonna get something great out of this one way or the other. And then sometimes I think that when you go into online dating, it can be disheartening. But I’m, once again, I know it sounds cliche, but he or she is out there. And I think you just have to have the patience to and to not take all the losses or all the bad apples and take them personally. It’s just whatever that person is carrying or moving within life, then that’s how they’re showing up but just kind of see it through. Sometimes you might need to take a little break from it, take a breather, refocus, do something else and then come back to it with her. fresher mind, but always be your genuine self look for laughs look for a good time because it’s it can be really bleak with the pandemic right now. And everybody’s dealing with it in different ways. People are morning people, there’s a lot of grief, a lot of concerns with mental health. So, you know, just try to make connections and see where those connections grow. Like give it the time because right now we have nothing but time. Yep.
Damona 45:24
Well, I couldn’t have said it better myself. Thank you so much for being here and for sharing your amazing love story. You two are adorable together. I know our listeners can’t see you. But you’ll just have to take my word for it. And I just wish her the two of you together. The two of you together are amazing. And I just wish you continued love and happiness and health. together.
Unknown Speaker 45:48
You Sandy.
Damona 45:50
Thank you. This has been Episode 340 of dates and mates. I’m at damona Hoffman on all of the socials. Please DM me your questions. Let me know what you’d like to know. If you’re struggling to find love on dating apps. Let me know where you’re getting stuck. And I could answer your question on a future episode. You can also feel free to send me a message about what you learned from today’s episode. Go ahead and DM me and send me a voice memo. I’d love to hear your voice. You sat here and listen to my voice all this time. I want to hear yours. And you can find me on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook at damona Hoffman. We have just one more episode left for 2020. But the search for Love does not rest. So neither will I I will be doing my weekly q&a as for anyone who needs support over the holidays in my patreon Friends with Benefits group that you can join for just five bucks@patreon.com slash dates and mates. And there’s a whole group of supportive people who are going through the same thing you are and would love to invite you into the circle again, that’s patreon.com slash dates and mates. Next week, we have another dear demona on tap. So do send me your questions. DM me if you can or leave me a voicemail at 424-246-6255 Again, that’s 424-246-6255 we’ll be back again next. I already said that. Let me just say also, and don’t forget to mark Don’t forget to subscribe and don’t forget to subscribe to the show and rate and review. If you are subscribed, you will get our episodes in January. We are moving to a new day on Tuesday. So if you’re not subscribed, you might miss out join the club. Until next week. I wish you happy dating
Love Language Gift Guide & Modern Marriage
DOES MARRIAGE EVEN MATTER?
Random fact: One of the most entertaining things about Damona’s job are the emails she gets from Jewish mothers.
You know her work in the LA Times and The Washington Post but did you know that Damona’s very first writing gig was as a dating expert for JDate?
For a while the emails from concerned mothers looking to help their sons in dating had subsided, but now because of the pandemic or politics or COVID, they have kicked up again.
Damona talks to Tod Jacobs & Peter Lynn from Jerusalem to give relationship tips from their new book Not A Partnership: Why We Keep Getting Marriage Wrong & How We Can Get It Right.
But first, let’s dish!
DATING DISH
Holiday Gifts for Any Love Language
How to find the perfect gift for every person in your life– it’s actually less complicated than you think. Damona explains more.
via GIPHY
Dating Studies 2020 Roundup
A complete roundup of every noteworthy study on love for all you science nerds out there. Damona weighs in.
via GIPHY
Elliot Page Comes Out As Transgender
A huge congratulations to Elliot Page and why you should be inspired by his story.
via GIPHY
GETTING MARRIAGE RIGHT
Tod Jacobs & Peter Lynn compiled a ton of research on marriage in their new book, Not A Partnership: Why We Keep Getting Marriage Wrong & How We Can Get It Right.
FOLLOW ALONG HERE:
Damona 0:00
Happy Holidays lovers. It’s December. It’s Hanukkah week. So I’m feeling kind of festive. And I’m thinking a lot about all of the wonderful Jewish mothers who send me emails trying to find a match for their little boy his. I don’t know if you knew this, maybe you’ve read my work in LA Times and in the Washington Post, but did you know that my very first writing gig was actually at j date? Yeah, I was a dating expert for j date. And it was so fun. And it generated quite a lot of emails back then. So for a while, the emails from concerned Jewish mothers looking for help for their sons and dating had subsided. But I don’t know if it’s the pandemic or politics or something else, but they have kicked up again. So to all the Mamas and part time yentas This show is inspired by you. And it’s for anyone who is on the hunt for a happy marriage. In honor of my Jewish grandfather and all of his corny jokes. I will begin my intro today, with a joke set up a rabbi and a Jewish scholar walk into a dating podcast. Okay, there’s no punch line.
Unknown Speaker 1:18
There’s only a setup.
Damona 1:20
But I do have an awesome interview lined up for you. I’ll be talking to Todd Jacobs, and peterlin, who joined me from Jerusalem to give relationship tips from their new book, not a partnership, why we keep getting marriage wrong, and how we can get it right. This interview has caused quite a stir here at dates and mates headquarters, and I can’t wait to hear your thoughts. But first, I need to get you up to speed on the headlines for this week, how to find a special gift for your special person. And it’s actually less complicated than you think. And for you science nerds out there a complete roundup of every noteworthy study on love for 2020 Plus, a huge congratulations to Elliott page, and why you should be inspired by Elliott’s story. All that and more on today’s dates and mates, you’re ready to dish.
Love Languages seem to be in the air I found out this week about a new feature on Bumble, where you can actually add your love language to your profile. So you can figure out if you can speak the same language when you match with someone. But beyond that plenty of fish also added a love language feature they did a post on their blog about the best holiday gifts for everyone based on their love language. So for those of you who are not familiar with the five love languages, it was based on the research of Dr. Gary Chapman. And it breaks us all down into five different types based on how we perceive and receive love. You ever been in a situation where you’re telling somebody you love them and you’re gushing? And you think this person must know how I feel? Because I’m saying it with my words? Well, if they haven’t really acted like they heard it, or they’ve come to you and said, I didn’t really feel loved. It’s because you might have different love languages. Maybe yours is words of affirmation. Theirs is maybe the second one physical touch, or the third gift, or the fourth quality time. Or maybe you’re like me and you’re number five acts of service. So I’m all about those acts of service like you do something for me. Oh, you cook me dinner. Oh, it’s gonna happen. It is on I am so happy. You tell me you love me doesn’t quite land the same way. So if the person is more into, say, words of affirmation, the blocks just something as simple as a handwritten letter could really make the difference for them or meaningful jewelry that has a word that’s really significant to them. This is y’all I’m giving you I’m giving you this is golden. If you are shopping for someone, and you know their love language, check out the dates and mates.com blog because we will link to this and you will know exactly what to get your loved one for this holiday season. All right, my science nerds dating news.com has come through for us they did a roundup of all of the studies from 2020 on love. First of all, I pride myself on being on top of all of this for you. And I try to read all the studies that I can because I love this data. I love seeing how human behavior works in real time. Not in theory, but actually what are we doing and how is the world that we’re interacting with changing the way that we move through relationships, but they even found they found some gems that I didn’t even know. They found that University of Chicago said couples who meet online are less likely to to divorce. That was a seven year study. You’ve heard me say here, but you can check out this dating news.com roundup and see why couples who meet online are less likely to divorce. According to the University of Chicago study. They also said that, OK, Cupid reported one third of women say they get too many messages. But Pew says over half of men say they get too few messages online. Are you seeing a pattern? Is there a solution for this? I think it’s pretty clear when you look at the data. And one that I thought was super interesting plenty of fish again, they did a study on the words in your dating profile. And they found that singles who use the word love are more successful. And actually, when you when you go check out this, this study, or this Roundup, you’ll see that it’s not just the word love, but when you use love, passion words, in your profile, you actually are more likely to get a match. So even using the word relationship, which some people run away from, because they’re afraid if I say relationship, and that’s too serious, then he’s going to run away. Yes, honey, he’s going to run away, because that’s not what he wants, and you don’t want him wasting your time. So those who said relationship in their profiles, actually were more likely to end up in a relationship. There’s so much info, and I don’t want to overwhelm you. But I find it all very fascinating. And if you keep listening to dates and mates, of course, I will keep synthesizing all the most interesting studies down for you every week. You may have also heard in the news about Elliott page announcing that he is trans. Great news on this is he’s getting so much support not just from Hollywood, and from fans and from friends. But also his wife is supporting him and standing by him through this transition. And he also announced his pronouns are he and a. So I look I’m still learning about how to do this correctly, too. So maybe somebody can, y’all are not shy on the DM. So maybe somebody can DM me if I should be using he or if I should be using they there. But I just wanted to acknowledge something that I read about Paige, when he says he was pressured in many cases to always wear dresses, and heels for events and photoshoots. You may remember he starred in the movie Juno. And he’s done a lot of roles. Oh, inception, that was one of my, that’s one of my favorite movies, I’ve probably seen that movie like 10 times. And when he goes to when he went to the red carpets, he was forced to dress a certain way that didn’t align with the way that he felt inside. And it made me think of you all actually it made, it reminded me of what you go through to twist and turn and contort yourself and present yourself to be seen on a date. And I was just having this conversation with a client the other day, who was worried about what to wear to a date that was going to be outside and whether the jacket was was was flattering enough or the right color. And I realized that all this info that I give you about how to present yourself. And these little tricks like I tell you were read in your profile, and how you want to show up in a in a dating profile photo. But I just also want to remind you that the very most important thing is for you to be yourself is for you to be authentic, and for you to actually shed away those layers, so that you can be comfortable in your own skin. So if anyone has gotten a message from me that they have to wear a dress to a date, or they have to show up in a certain way in order to be attractive. Go ahead and scratch that out right now. And replace it with I need to feel sexy, I need to feel feel attractive. I need to feel good and comfortable myself to be my best self on the date. So thank you, Elliot page, thank you for leading the way I know it is it is so hard. It is so hard to go through such a public process of transitioning. And maybe you are not transgender and going through a similar experience. But you can certainly relate to what I just said, of having to pretend that you’re somebody you’re not in order to be liked or loved. And I’d say as we go into this new year, let’s put that aside. Let’s be ourselves, let’s be authentic, let’s be comfortable in our own bodies. And let’s let all the haters fall to the wayside because 2020 is coming off and also our break is coming Write up. I want to share this interview with the authors of not a partnership. It is fascinating and I think you’ll really enjoy it. But you got to stick around for just a moment to hear it.
Welcome back. I’m here with Todd Jacobs and Peter Lynn. They’re both professors at the David Robinson Institute for Jewish heritage in Jerusalem. They’re joining me from all the way across the pond. They help their students figure out a pathway to successful living that uses Jewish tradition, ancient texts, mysticism, Do I have your attention? So look, even if you are not Jewish, you will be able to relate to this interview because it’s all about their research on how to make your marriage strong. And they’ve put it all together in their new book, not a partnership, why we keep getting marriage wrong, and how we can get it right. So no matter what your faith, if you’re relationship minded, maybe even marriage minded, you need to join me for the inside scoop. Please now help me give big smooches to my guests, Todd, and Peter. Hello, gentlemen, welcome to the show.
Unknown Speaker 11:09
Thank you so much.
Damona 11:11
Well, we need to we need to talk because a lot of my audience out here, they are relationship minded. Some of them are looking for marriage, some of them are just looking for commitment, but most of them are looking for something a little bit more than they’re in right now. First, I want to talk about in your book, not a partnership, you talk about the institution of marriage, right and looking at marriage, like a job.
Unknown Speaker 11:45
I like
Unknown Speaker 11:46
a good job,
Damona 11:48
a good job, a job that you want. But, you know, in a way people, people are always telling me marriage is so hard. It’s so much work. But I feel like it’s it’s it’s it’s work like this is work for me. Like I love doing it. And I love helping people. But what do you mean, when you say, marriage is like a job?
Unknown Speaker 12:06
You know, we first of all, when we talk about marriage, one of the things we try to do is to give a bit more of a depth and what marriage means than just kind of let’s call it the legal description. And the legal description is one which is you know, up for grabs. And it means different things to different people in different contexts in different countries. But what we what we’re talking about really, is a relationship that is driven by a commitment that I have towards making my spouse, the center of my concern, the center of my attention. And then I view my job, so to speak as a very elevated job. It’s not It’s not the job as a martyr, it’s an incredible job of helping give that person the life that they want and deserve. And when a person is committed to that for their spouse, and the spouse is committed back now, whether they are legally married, legally not married, living together, what I mean, it’s the dynamic is going to be same dynamic, if two people are committed to building and completing each other and giving the other the life that they want and deserve and need. That can create a an incredibly beautiful dynamic in their relationship. And that’s what we are trying to focus people on because we think that’s missing in lots of relationships. Hmm,
Damona 13:24
that’s certainly missing. And I find that a lot of people aren’t having the conversations early on about what they really want, and really, how they even define what the partnership looks like. Right? What do you think about that? Peter? When do you feel like the conversation should begin around partnership or the the goals for the relationship?
Unknown Speaker 13:51
So I would say like this, is that if you’re looking for someone that you want to have a significant relationship with, what you find is, it doesn’t have to be day one. But the sooner you see if you line up in more of a long term way, that does two things. It frees you up to allow yourself to actually get closer to this person. And you’ll see that down the line, you’re not going to run into major roadblocks when the relationship actually does get closer. What happens a lot of times, as we all know, is that people find this relationship and it goes great. But once serious issues start coming up about what is the long term look like? What do we want for you know, the future of our lives, all of a sudden, you have people that they realize, you know, we’re just not on the same page at all. And then it takes a lot of energy to now start over and you know, try and find that with someone else again, the world of dating can be very depleting and we feel there are lots of things out there that can be done to To make it much smoother for people in their journey to find either a great relationship, or ultimately, the one they want to spend the rest of their life with. Mm hmm. Yeah.
Damona 15:10
And that, that idea of, Oh, no, I have to go back to the pool, again, is something I hear from a lot, a lot, a lot of my listeners. And, you know, I feel like, if you aren’t in the right partnership, it’s worth the effort that you put in before, and it shouldn’t be that much effort. In The Now, like, I like going back to what I was saying, originally, to you, Todd. When people say relationships are a lot of work, I’m like, kind of, I feel like the wrong relationships can be a lot of work. Do you see that? Don’t tell me if I, maybe I’m wrong about that. Maybe I’m looking at that with one with just one lens. I feel free to disagree with me.
Unknown Speaker 16:05
You know, relationships, they can make you without work. But I don’t think that there’s anyone that stands, you know, at their wedding. And they say to themselves, you know, well, I’m looking forward to an okay, marriage. You know, no one, no one says I’m, you know, no one says, as a claim the cake, you know, with the spouse in the band is good. No one says, you know, oh, a mediocre is good for me. You know, I was okay with a BMI in high school, but I didn’t think that my wedding day. And, and we all know that in order to really have something in our life that things want to achieve a goal you want to go after, it’s going to take a lot of effort to get there in order to really make that excellent, that end product amazing. And so, you’re right, a person can be relationship, and Okay, you know, you just ride it out. But what you’ll see very fast is we live in a world today where things get old, very fast, and things lose their freshness very fast. And we all know, you know, we’re all guilty of this, that we drop our guard really fast as well, sometimes a bit too fast. You know, I can be a certain way in my public life. But unfortunately, I come in my private life a lot of times, you know, my behavior is not as good as it may be when I’m at work, or when I’m in front of my friends. And what I think it means when we say work is demonio 100%. Right? I don’t think it’s hard work. Because when you feel like always you when you’re with the right person, why wouldn’t you want to do that work. So it makes it beautiful. But I do realize that in order to make my marriage, let’s say my relationship get to where I want to get to, I know, if I work harder communication, I put effort in to making us have you know, romantic dates, I go out of my way to show different forms of respect to my spouse, I do things that maybe naturally when you feel like doing but I go out of my way to implement all these things that we see that you know, can bring greatness to certain relationships in your life. And I put them in my in my relationship, my marriage. So those proactive efforts are what we’re talking about as far as what we look at as work. And what we find is that relationships that are always trying to be better, trying to work harder, trying to actively get closer, when you’re going to see is that relationships end up bringing way more happiness to the people that are involved in it. And people that are in relationships, that is let them kind of let’s just let them go. And let’s see where they get to. Unfortunately, sometimes you’ll see that without a lot of effort to make it amazing. things naturally deteriorate, which is what we see in all places in life.
Damona 18:58
But what do you do in the instance where you’re committed to making your relationship work, and maybe your partner is not in the same place. And I hear this a lot as well, from people that are in partnerships, and they’re like, I’m trying, like, I’m working on my communication, I’m trying to show up for them, I’m trying to improve it, and they’re just, they’re just exhausted, they’re not paying attention. They don’t want to go to therapy. They don’t they don’t want to do the do the work, right. What then,
Unknown Speaker 19:32
look, you know, the reality is the sad reality is there are relationships which are dysfunctional. There are there are a certain percentage of relationships which are just simply dysfunctional, and one side might be the source of the dysfunctionality. And it could be that no matter what you do, you’re not going to be met with the response, the gratitude, the reception, the love the you know, the the trust that you need. It’s possible. But what we’ve seen are maybe I would answer it from two angles. One question is, you know, what makes a person love another person. And this is really this is sticking on your issue of the work. Okay? We ask our students all the time, and I and I, you know, I’ve had this conversation, many people, we talked about it in the book, you know, what is it that causes love? Do I love someone who gives to me? And because they give to me, and they’re good to me in a nice way to take care of me, therefore, I love them. Or do I love where I give? So again, if you pull it out of a romantic relationship, let’s take a child with a parent. Okay, so who loves who more a child? Or does a child of the parent more generally is parent the child more generally, most most people agree that the parents love the children way more than the children of parents. Why is that? I thought one second, but but the parent is doing all the giving, at least for certainly for many years, parents do it’s like a one way giving relationship.
Damona 20:58
I know, I have two of them.
Unknown Speaker 21:01
And so and why is it the parents love their children, and the more that gives them, the more they love them? And the answer is because the more you invest in yourself in the other, and you see yourself in the other, you see your effort in the other and you put yourself in the other, you expand yourself into into a way that creates love for the other. And, and in a relationship. You know, I once had a religion and we’d have tell us a story in the in the book about we were at 30,000 feet on a private plane, a few analysts and you know, you know, doing taking research around the country. And and one of the young analysts was complaining that his wife, you know, he just doesn’t love her anymore, because she just doesn’t do much for him anymore. They’ve been married a couple years. And I said to him, you’re missing the whole point of what causes love. I said, there’s an old rabbi who basically taught something which you don’t have to be religious to listen to. But you got to be interested in what what love is, I said, you know, if you would start giving to your wife, instead of waiting for her to give to you, if you start giving to her, doing things for her, putting her at the center of your concern, putting her into your calendar as something that, you know, making sure you’re calling her but when you said it’s not just a wife, it’s a it’s a lover, a wife, a friend, anybody, but particularly in a loving relationship, you know, if you would start giving to her, you will find that your love for her expands dramatically. And by the way, that will usually trigger something in the other. And and that and he, by the way, came back to me Two months later and said, our relationship has changed. He said, I decided I have nothing to lose by trying. And and I have found that I’ve like fallen back in love with my wife again. And we’re falling in love again. And it dovetails with one other piece of advice that we go into extensively in the book, which we think is maybe the most important chapter, which is that the chapter is called, it all depends on me. Most people think I’ll start getting started in fixing a relationship when my spouse shows me that they’re willing to do the work, or my kids, were saying spouse, but again, it matters in any relationship doesn’t have to be a married relationship. When the other person, my lover starts doing the work, then I’ll start doing the work. And what we found is quite the contrary. Most people if they examine themselves, realize and find out that they have one or two traits that need fixing, that always have a negative impact on the relationship. It’ll have a negative impact all over their life. By the way, if you have an anger problem, selfishness problem, it comes out everywhere. But nowhere will it come out as badly as in your relationship, especially after a little bit of time when you let your guard down. And if I realize I’ve got an anger problem, and it’s poisoning my relationship with my with my with my with my other, one of the most main things I can do is to start working on anger problem not forget about forget about the other person for a moment, just work on my own issue. And when and when that when that my partner comes in my partner, my wife, my husband, whoever it is, comes in and sees on my bedside table all these books about anger management, they see that I’m listening to a podcast and they see that I’m going to therapy, and I’m trying to fix the issue. It’s amazing what that can do to jumpstart a relationship where things have gone haywire up until now and the other side again, unless the other person is very dysfunctional, they may begin to and probably will begin to examine what I bring to the table here. What am I doing that maybe is not so good for relationships, and you can start a virtuous cycle, to really kickstart things again,
Damona 24:21
I often talk about the mindset piece as you’re looking for a partner, and how to how to get clarity on what you’re looking for, but also get clarity on what you’re bringing to the table. And that’s all part of the magical mindsets do of preparing yourself for the right relationship for you. So what you just said, I want to make sure everyone really hears it. And, and, and I see this also for singles in the Peep There are people that want to, they want to complain, they want to be frustrated. They want to be down on love, but then when ask them, What have you actually done to change the situation? It’s usually just complaining and commiserating. And swiping button, not having really the intention. And so that intention of wanting to change and wanting to do your best is really, really important. Now, I would love to, to turn the conversation of it around the, the whole institution of marriage, we’re seeing that people are marrying at lower rates, they’re waiting longer to get married. And I have always been pro marriage, I know I have a lot of a lot of LGBTQ listeners that didn’t always have the ability to get married, now are worried that they might not have the ability in the future. But let’s say that aside, I feel that my life is enhanced by by being married. And, and the funny thing is, I can’t even really identify where that idea of needing to be married or wanting to be married, came from versus like, I’ll just stay in this partnership. And as long as life is okay, we’ll continue on. And I hear also from a lot of people who are divorced, and especially people who are divorced multiple times, that they’re no longer interested in marriage again. So if you would, for me, maybe defend the Institute, institution of marriage, or, or celebrate the virtues of marriage, or tell me why that’s actually not as important in a partnership as maybe it was, back when I was 25.
Unknown Speaker 26:54
Look, you know, they’re the historical reasons that, you know, that, that in many societies, you know, sort of enhanced the need for marriage, you know, when when men were the only ones who could work and when women needed physical protection, and they couldn’t make a living, and there was no equality and things like that. A lot of those a lot of those reasons don’t mean anything to anybody anymore. What I think does retain the spark. And by the way, in the research and the most recent research that we’ve ever seen, the actual number of people who speak about marriage as something that is at the top of their priority list. Now, it may not be number one priority for everyone anymore. And it may be in a way that it might have been 3040 years ago, but but it seems to be in the top two or three priorities of what I want out of life. And marriage is frequently right at the top of that list. So the question is why now why not just kind of get together with somebody that I like, and and we’ll move in together, and we’ll have a good relationship, and we’ll take care of each other. It seems to be that, that what marriage does beyond any kind of legal definition is, is it it creates a sense of commitment, and exclusivity, where we’re where it’s you and me together, and we’re shutting everybody else out. And we’re totally committed to each other. And by the way, there’s a through thick and thin component that people think of in marriage, but not so much in let’s get together as long as it’s fun. You know, things, a lot of things happen, which you don’t think about when you meet that person across the room, and they’re really attractive and really healthy and really young, just like you are, you know, you think it’s going to stay like that. Well, guess what a lot of things happen in life. There’s financial setbacks, and there’s health setbacks, and there’s all kinds of things that happen. Well, what why don’t I stick around with you, if I haven’t really committed myself to you and a more meaningful way than just as long as you make me happy, satisfied, and are fun to be with, you know, beyond that, what, you know, if when a person goes that one step further than they say, I want to actually create a bond, which however, I think about it, when I think about as legally or religiously or spiritually, but I’m creating a bond that is through thick and thin. When I can come to trust the other person with my life, you know, we have acquaintances, we have friends, we have close friends, and then we’ve got this this realm of exclusivity, where we share where we are one, we literally become one person that’s bigger than the two of us as separate beings. That gives a level of intimacy, happiness, security, well being that that we just have not seen repeated in other areas. And it’s and it’s something to do with the commitment level. And it’s something to do with the intimacy and the privacy of that relationship, which is, you know, you can use the word sacred. You can use the word spiritual, you can use the word you know, you know, just beyond it’s just increasing. It’s a oneness, it’s a different level. And that seems to be something that rings and people at a very deep level.
Unknown Speaker 30:08
And then
Damona 30:10
when we’re talking about, sorry, just gonna pop up when we’re talking about marriage in the current function of society, and now that people can, you can have a child, you don’t have to be married, you can buy property. I mean, not even that long ago, a woman couldn’t even take out a loan in her own name. Now, we don’t we don’t need you fellas for that we can get our own loans. And I’m I am still seeing though people that are that will move into a partnership and even buy property with someone, but then not necessarily have have the plan for marriage or may specifically want to push marriage away. They don’t even like the idea of marriage from just from a, I guess a security standpoint, do you feel like there’s still value in the institution of marriage? Or did that go away when you know, women started cashing our own checks?
Unknown Speaker 31:20
I mean, you see, so many fastening we just said, Is it even now that you know that, that thank God, women have all these rights, which are just normal and healthy, that the fact that you still see a desire for that relationship? And something called marriage shows you how much of a part of us it actually really is. And you know, I think that what happens a lot of times is that you see that couples will go really far they’ll you know, they will buy that property together, they’ll move in together, they’ll do all these things. The question is what happens as far as making that final commitment, what holds them back, if they’re basically functioning as a married couple, what now holds them back from actually doing this thing called marriage. And what happens and what we’ve seen a lot, and I’ve seen this, just across the board through different things I’ve read with people we’ve worked with is that commitments are really difficult. And you know, one of the one of the things if you look at the word, you know, when you look at the word decide, it’s the same word as homicide, when you make a decision, you kill other options, or pesticide. And what’s scary a lot of times in life is that when you make certain decisions, you go for it, you’re now saying this is it, and nothing else. And we live in a world today where there are so many options. And you can be in so many different places. And you can be in so many different kinds of relationships. And through the world of social media, you’re seeing so many other life choices. Making that final commitment is a scary thing for people. And I think that’s where people kind of get stuck a little bit. Because as long as I don’t say that word marriage, as long as we don’t go to the courthouse, as long as we don’t have that religious event, I’m still there’s still an option of if this doesn’t go a certain way I can run. But if you already see a couple going that far, where they’re doing everything but marriage. So you know, the question to ask them is that? What would really change? Other than now they’d have a certificate on their wall? Or do they change if they actually did go to that courthouse, technically speaking, not much, but emotionally speaking a lot. And where I think that a lot actually is, is to go the distance and really shut yourself off from the rest of the world and say, I’m putting my entire life into this person is a difficult thing for people to do.
Damona 34:04
Mm hmm. Yeah. And it’s also it’s not even just difficult. It’s also a, it can be scary because there are there are potential consequences. Like I talked to a lot of successful women, who they have a good credit score, they are making good money and they’re like, if I marry this person, then suddenly now I am legally bonded, I am now responsible for his finances. And his credit score becomes my credit score. For those who don’t know, those are those are facts, and you take on his debt, and that is really, that is really a tough pill for a lot of women to swallow.
Unknown Speaker 34:50
Right? And the truth is, it becomes a question of prioritization in some sense, because if I know that she won’t go the distance with me and commit to me, because she’s afraid I’m going to bring her credit score down. How much will I can I just shoot? Well, I really give her my full trust. Because in the back of my mind, I always think, you know, there’s part of this, that’s just really, she’s just worried about me being a financial drain, she’s worried about this. And there’s the, again, whether you call it marriage, or whether you don’t call it marriage, or whether it’s legal or not legal, what creates the the level of intimacy and security, which on a long term basis, we’ve seen can lead to incredible happiness and well being. And by the way, and romance and, you know, good physical relationship and everything else, that a lot of that has to do with the fact that I say I am, I am yours, and you are mine. And we’re building something bigger than ourselves, and we’re in it through thick, and again, it’s that thick and thin component of it, which if it’s not there, and each side has always gotten the back of their head, I can get out of this, and if my credit score is going to suffer, or if or if they’re not, you know, or if a little illness is going to come in, or a little financial setback is going to come in or if you know, I just don’t, you know, they just they’re not as interesting anymore, or whatever it is there, you just can’t get the same level of conductivity. As long as that, you know, that sort of exit door is still always swinging in the background. That’s so it’s a question of what you want, it’s a question of what you really want.
Damona 36:30
But this idea of the Paradox of Choice, and that if you have the exit strategy, you might want to take it, and that doesn’t necessarily give you the most, the greatest opportunity for growth in the relationship is really profound. Before we go, I also want to get into your four pillars of giving. Because, you know, this is an element of the book of not a partnership, which of course, we’ll link to in the show notes. But I think this is really, this is good life advice, as well as good partnership advice, can you leave us with with those four pillars to take the next next phase,
Unknown Speaker 37:10
maybe period, I’ll take the first to keep it fresh and gratitude. And I’ll take that, and I’ll take the last year.
Unknown Speaker 37:15
So just just so you know that the four pillars are really, you know, if we had to define what the PDF manual is, and how to build a relationship, okay, it’s very simple. And that is the world of giving. And what we have seen is that the ultimate formula of how your relationship is going to go from good to great is by people giving. So what we designed, is we took in the back of our book, and really the whole second half of it, is we have four pillars of giving and we broke up different ways of how to see giving. Okay, so the first two pillars are pillar number one, is the idea of people working hard to keep their marriage fresh. Okay, for example, when I first started dating my wife, okay, I made a real effort to look good to, you know, smell a certain way to her with my words, to buy gifts to, you know, really make sure that I you know, I carried myself a certain way privately when we were alone together. And after birth time, you know, you’ve been together for a period of time and feeling a bit tired, and that energy is no longer there. One of the ways I can give to my spouse or anyone gives me the relationships, you know what, I’m going to make that same effort that I once made. And what you’ll find is that when you make that effort, so that brings a certain freshness to the relationship, no matter how long you’ve been in the relationship. During number two, is the world of gratitude. And unfortunately, what happens is, we are, we are doomed by something called expectations. And if you look in the world, especially in my background for the positive psychology, that if you’re looking to make something really rich in life, as far as any relationship, fill it with gratitude, and you will see an exponential change. And what happens a lot of times in life is places where we have high expectations. So our gratitude is actually quite low. Okay, in my relationship, so what happens is, I expect all these things for my spouse. So once she goes way beyond it, okay, I’m gonna express my gratitude. And once she drops one little ounce below it, I’m a frustrated guy. But you go to Starbucks and you walk out of Starbucks and you just, you know, purchased a $15 frappuccino, and you leave your credit card, and some you know, and someone runs up to you and says, excuse me, No, ma’am, sir. You left your credit card. You’re like, Oh my gosh, you know, greatest person in the world. You take a selfie, send a Christmas card. You tell everyone over the weekend, what happened like this person is is God’s gift to the world, he saved your life. And there are no expectations, all of a sudden, something happens, my gratitude levels are awesome. And where your gratitude levels should be the highest of those people that are doing the most for you to give you the life that you want, is there any place in your life that someone is doing as much for you than in your relationship, if there’s any place where gratitude should be absolutely flowing, is that is in your relationship, and people who go out of their way to proactively do that their relationships are drastically different. So that’s the, that’s a little bit of a summary of the first two pillars.
Damona 40:45
And before Thank you so much, Peter, before we move on to the last two pillars, I just want to add on about gratitude. Because I also do this with singles and I have people practice gratitude in their daily life now. Because if you are going into a relationship from a place of needing or not having rather than feeling the fullness of your life as is and the things that you have, that you are grateful for, if if you are going in from that place of not having you cannot attract as much abundance in my experience, so thank you for reminding us that we need to continue to practice gratitude. All right, take us home, Todd.
Unknown Speaker 41:28
The third pillar we call respect in all its forms, and one of the one of the deep mystical teachings is that as much as people feel that love comes first and drives the relationship, what what is what can be really more fundamental, and which ultimately drives love, is the way I show respect to my other. and respect comes in many forms. You know, there are people who will, let’s say, Be extravagant in the way they spend on their on their loved one. But on the other hand, they don’t speak to the person nicely, they’re a little bit insulting, they’re a little bit degrading, they’re a little bit coarse. And so on the one hand, you’re one second, I’ve given you everything you need, haven’t I given you, you know, all that you want all you’ve asked for? Well, yeah, but you haven’t treated me like someone who you actually care about respect. And there are people by the way, flip it around, there are people who sort of I recognize that, wow, this is a, this is a real soul I’m dealing with. And so I want to always speak respectfully and kindly and be nice. On the other hand, I forget about the person’s physical needs. And so I stopped spending. So so so so a healthy, full board respect is, I care about the way speak to you, I care about the way I speak about you, I show you respect when you’re speaking to me that I actually pay attention to listen to you, and I’m not on my phone. And I’m not looking, I’m not answering I’m not answering text at the same time, you’re trying to tell me about your day. And I’m also willing to, to give of myself financially, physically time energy, so that that total, that total experience that you can receive or give, which is all about how you treat the other, that sort of thing both increases the way that you’ll love the other again, for reasons we said before the love where you give, and it certainly will make the other feel tremendously respected by you. And that will drive the others love for you as well. So that’s the that’s the idea of respect. And we go through the litmus test you can take to see if you’re actually scoring well on that, and, and a lot of tips on how to get back there.
Damona 43:43
I hope cardi B takes that test. That’s all I’m saying. All right. And number four,
Unknown Speaker 43:49
number four, number four is, is is that we call it It all depends on me. And and it’s again, the idea that if something is failing in my relationship, don’t do what people always do and look at the other and say you’re messing things up, start with what can I do to kickstart this relationship? What can I fix in myself? What can I improve on myself without respect to the other, but it will have a benefit and spillover and probably the most direct benefit to the other. By the way, again, if I correct my anger problem, or my selfishness problem, or that I talked too much or or that I’m too closed, or whatever the problem is, if the greatest recipient of the gift of my working through my issue is going to be the one that I love, it’s going to be that person I’m in an intimate relationship with. And again, that we have seen we have seen in relationships that were on the rocks, and and both sides were pointing fingers and blaming each other. And we sat down usually if we had the opportunity to sit down with each side separately, sometimes we only knew one side. And we would say look, just stop focusing on what your partner isn’t doing. Focus on what you’re doing and how you Do it better, and see if things improve. And we have seen 90% of the time things not only improve, but they, they just rocket ahead. And they cause all kinds of improvements on the other side as well. And then you get this virtuous cycle of each trying to be better in the relationship with with the with, with all the benefits that accrue to the other side and then back to themselves. It’s a beautiful, it’s a beautiful cycle that you can kickstart about. Thank
Damona 45:25
you. This has been a beautiful conversation. I feel really inspired. As someone who is married has been married a long time, and does a lot of things that you’re talking about, I still learned a few more things that I’m going to be implementing in my home and my relationship and taking care of my side is straight, because it all depends on me. Thank you so much for being here. Gentlemen, I hope everyone will check out your book, not a partnership. We’ll put the link in the show notes. In the meantime, I wanted to wish you happy Hanukkah, and happy new year. And hopefully this will get people to be in the right place as we move into end of the year beginning to examine the year that we’ve had and where we want to be in the future. So thank you so much. Thank you
Unknown Speaker 46:14
so much, so much. Great to be here.
Damona 46:16
This has been Episode 339 of dates and maids. I would love to connect with you. I’m at damona Hoffman on all of the socials. I love your DMS, those of you who have DM me, you know, I usually respond with actually a voice memo. I love to hear your voice. You can voice memo me on Instagram and I will voice memo you back, give you some insight and then maybe even use your question on a future episode of the show. So don’t be shy. I love to hear from you. I’m at damona Hoffman on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. Speaking of loving to hear from you. I also love connecting with you and I have a group Do you know about the inner circle my patreon Friends with Benefits group, you can join for just five bucks and that supports this show. And it gives you access to my exclusive Facebook Lives where I talk about the behind the scenes insights from this show and also give you insights on whatever it is that you’re dealing with. We do a live q&a. Every week. We have tons of other resources. We have webinars and video clips and library content from dates and mates. And I want you to join me and get in the club you can join that@patreon.com slash dates and mates and honey it’s only five bucks. So set aside a little for yourself this year. And come and join the club is I will now step away to light the candles of Hanukkah. I hope I have lit the candles of love and marriage and long term partnership within you. So I hope you continue along your journey wherever you are. We’ll be here for another two weeks in December. But I wanted to let you know we are moving to Tuesdays in January. So if you’re not subscribed to the show, make sure you’re subscribed so that you don’t miss an episode. I’ll remind you again next week. Speaking of next week, I have an awesome interview with the cutest couple. Honestly, they’re so cute. They live in Atlanta and they found love in the middle of a pandemic on Bumble and they’re going to share their story with us on dates and mates. I hope you find it as inspirational as I do. Until next week. I wish you happy dating
Transcribed by https://otter.ai