Dear Damona: Opposites Attract & Pandemic Dating Options

YOUR DATING QUESTIONS ANSWERED

You asked and we got answers for you.

Your dating questions have been pouring in and so our holiday gift to you is an extra detailed, extra special Dear Damona. 

But first, here are our headlines:

DATING DISH (3:00)

Opposites Really Do Attract

Do opposites really attract? Or are you following false attractions? Damona weighs in.

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Apocalypsing: The New Dating Trend

Is it the apocalypse or are you falling in love? Damona explains more.

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Which Sports Get the Most Swipes on Tinder

Sport retailer SportShoes ran a study to find which active hobbies were most likely to receive a swipe right.

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DEAR DAMONA (11:04)

Damona gives advice on listener questions such as:

  • Can your long-distance relationship go the distance?
  • How do I find love if I don’t feel like I fit the norm around me?
  • Should you include a picture of yourself in a mask on your dating profile?
  • Pandemic Dating Problems: Should you be physically exclusive before being romantically exclusive?
  • How do I date now if I feel like my dating options are limited due to the pandemic?

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FOLLOW ALONG HERE:

Damona  0:00  

Hello lovers, welcome to dates and mates. I am kicking things off with a hot tip. So get your notebooks ready. The best chance of finding love in 2021 is right around the corner. Dating Sunday is coming up. That’s right. Every year there is one day, one day where all of the dating apps see the most activity, and that is the first Sunday of the year. Then of course, that means that the weeks leading up to February are crucial because if you’re looking for a date for Valentine’s Day, you’re gonna be on these dating apps, you’re gonna be swiping and trying to meet people. So Mark your calendars. I am serious literally mark your calendars for dating Sunday. It’s January 3 this year. And secondary Hot Tip. The peak engagement time will be 9:30pm in your local timezone. I swear I’m not making this up. This is a real thing that happens every single year. And I don’t want you to let your time to find a partner go to waste. And if you want a partner in crime and this dating process, you can join my first ever co Ed dating Secret Circle. Yeah, I’ll be doing live group coaching during the countdown to Valentine’s Day. I must admit that was always the most stressful time of the year for me when I was single. So I really want to offer you emotional support and a roadmap so that you can implement your own dating plan to take advantage of the online dating surge, and have someone special to call your Valentine next year. Early Bird Registration is open now and you can find out the details. Plus read some of my success stories at the dating secret.com. I’ll put the link in the show notes. Now let’s get into the show.

 

Unknown Speaker  1:47  

Are we supposed to get married gonna just

 

Unknown Speaker  1:49  

swipe I don’t want somebody to share my life.

 

Damona  1:56  

You can keep waiting for the fairy tale. Or you can get on board with the new rules of relationships. If you’ve read my advice in the LA Times, then you know, this ain’t your mama’s love advice. This is dates and mates with damona Hoffman. All right, lovers, you’ve asked and I will be answering today your questions I’ve been pouring in. And so my holiday gift for you is an extra detailed extra special deer demona episode. But first, you know we love these headlines, we have two opposites really attract? Or are you falling for false attractions? And is the? Is it the apocalypse? Or are you falling in love? Then I’ll answer your questions. And Dear demona, here’s what’s been on your mind. How do you find love when you don’t feel that you fit into the beauty standards around you? And how do you take your long distance online romance to the next level. All that and more on today’s dates and maids it’s time to dish these dating dish. survey says, You know I love a good dating survey. And my friends at elite singles. And one poll came through came through before the end of the year with a survey of 2000 Americans who are dating or in a relationship and ask them, they asked them about the behaviors and factors that form the basis of the compatibility of their partners. What did they find? Well, it says that people with dissimilar taste don’t necessarily have failed relationships. So you know, this idea of opposites may really attract. It said actually these differences might enhance the relationship. Here’s the interesting thing. And of course, we’ll link to the study in the show notes. I was curious about the kind of factors that they were looking at because they examined interests. They also examined habits things like cleaning habits, exercise habits, and even morning and evening routines were singled out as important factors which I would agree with maybe not the exercise habits. Also eating habits they mentioned but definitely cleaning habits. I find that that is definitely a source of frustration in my home sometimes. And even morning evening routines. Honestly, I really think the morning person, even night owl thing is a bigger I honestly think that the morning person night owl debate could be a bigger factor in your relationship than even some values based

 

qualities quality’s because that is lifestyle. your lifestyle really matters to whether or not you’ll be able to live with this person but Course mutual respect and understanding they said was the top factors cited by respondents as crucial to compatibility. They also said interests and goals for the future, I’m going to take issue with one of those things, you’ve probably heard my four factors of long term compatibility worth repeating, we have some new listeners. So I’ll just remind you, these are the four things you’re looking for in a relationship, you’re looking for common goals for the future, you are looking for shared values, you’re looking for mutual respect, and trust, and you are looking for conflict resolution styles being compatible. That’s it. Those are the four factors of long term compatibility. So you will know that even though 52% of respondents in this survey said that interests were that important to them, they’re actually not that important. And we get so caught up on whether or not they like the same movies that we do or whether or not they play the same games or do the same sports. But ultimately, those are interests that can change over time. And what’s going to happen to your relationship if you are bonded based on a sport for example, there was also a study by a shoe company sports shoes, to find out which active hobbies were most likely to receive a swipe right? They did something that I do not recommend. They created fake Tinder profiles and then tested how people would swipe on them based on the pictures of the activities they’re in. So I would say sorry, sports shoes, that is an epic fail, and just look out for the sports shoe profiles on Tinder. But they said that, for men yoga, weightlifting, cycling, and running were the most matched sports, and for women cycling, running and climbing. But guess what, ultimately, that is not a predictor of long term compatibility. Unless you’re like a professional cyclist. And you are like doing the Tour de France and riding around the country together. It’s not actually that important. And I’ll just reiterate, you’ve probably heard me say this on the show before, but finding someone who shares every hobby with you who can do everything with you, who’s your right hand and everything is not actually the goal. your partner’s your partner, your cycling buddies are your cycling buddies. Find me on one peloton, underscore diva Mona underscore, your running buddies, your climbing buddies that isn’t is not necessarily the role for your partner. If you can do it together, great. But don’t put too much emphasis on it because your interests may change, you may have an injury. And then if you haven’t done the work to figure out the other elements of compatibility, like the values like the goals for the future, you’re going to be standing on thin ice. And that was not a skating reference.

 

apocalypse thing is a new dating trend that you need to be on the lookout for according to plenty of fish. apocalypse thing is basically treating every relationship like it’s your last chance at love because we’re kind of in the apocalypse. But it’s not really the dating apocalypse. And there is sort of a, there’s a way out on the horizon, there’s a light at the end of the pandemic tunnel. But according to plenty of fish, they’re seeing this trend where people are just like, you go on a couple dates. And the next thing you know, you you jump right into it like it, they’ve known each other for your whole life. And because we are so starved now for outside, outside connection, that we just are jumping right in, like everything has the potential for long term happiness. But remember what I just said about all of those factors that need to be aligned for long term compatibility? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you might be skipping those, and moving right into a relationship out of maybe convenience out of wanting to bubble with somebody, and you don’t necessarily know and you’ll hear this also echoed in some of the questions from today’s dear demona. You don’t necessarily know that this is your forever person, but we’re treating them like they’re your forever person. So a couple of great tips from this article, which I’m sure you’ll check out when you go to the show notes at dates and mates calm is that you need to set your standards especially regarding how you want to be treated and what core values you’d like to share with your future significant other. This is like before you even meet the person, but if you’ve already met them, go ahead and do it now. And then to also write down your deal breakers. Is any of this sounding familiar to anyone has anyone heard this from any dating coach before about planning out what you’re looking for and also having a deal I give you one deal breaker but You know, you can write down all the deal breakers you want, but really drill it down to that core of what is most important to you and let that guide your decisions on who you’re going to be gifting your time to this holiday season and this COVID season. All right, we are going to take a very, very short break. When we come back, I have your answers to your questions. Is there a difference between physical exclusivity and romantic exclusivity? And can introverts and extroverts actually be a good match? And so much more, so don’t go anywhere? Welcome back to dates in May. It’s I have so many questions. I, y’all I am. So I’m so honored that you trust me with your dating advice. We have more questions than we have time to answer. So I promise you, I will continue to keep your answers in queue if your question if your question does not get answered on today’s show, but we have some hot ones. So let’s get this party started. d

 

Unknown Speaker  11:04  

damona, help me.

 

Damona  11:05  

This first question comes to us from my friend Amani. He’s also a podcaster. And he live streams on twitch at a money experience.

 

Unknown Speaker  11:15  

If you meet someone on like a social media platform, like a twitch or Instagram, and you hit it off, and you’re talking, and they live in a different part of the country, so like say I’m in LA and they might live in like Miami, Florida, how would you be able to date them and actually see them if you’ve gotten to the point where you want to see each other to see if it’s really real.

 

Damona  11:41  

You know, a lot of people say to me that they don’t like online dating, which means they don’t like dating apps, but then they might get a DM or they might connect with someone like, it sounds like maybe a Mani did on Twitch or on his Instagram. And then suddenly they find themselves in a digital romance. So it can happen to anybody at any time, even if you’ve sworn off dating apps, which in case I haven’t made my point you shouldn’t be doing right now. But anyways, back to a Manny’s question. Long Distance Love is a challenge. So the first thing you always have to do is make sure that once things are heating up, you know, maybe maybe three or four weeks into it, you have a sense of where this could go. It’s not like you’re asking for a marriage proposal after a month. But you can have questions at this point like, do you need to stay in your city for your job or for your family? Or would you ever be open to moving? Or what would it be like I wonder if we were together and I was living in say, Miami, Florida and just dip your toe in those waters first just to see how they react to those things. Because eventually, all long distance relationships, you have to end up in the same place. At some time. I have known a few people who’ve made long term long distance relationships work. But literally those people went back and forth, like twice a month at least. And I don’t know if you’re up for that. So that’s the first thing to figure out. The second thing then is to figure out also compatibility. And you will have to, at some point move offline to figure that out. Okay, I know, we’re in the middle of a global pandemic. So you might not be able to get on a plane right now. But there should be the conversation of how you could come together. So in normal times, I would tell my clients who were dating long distance, and I’ve had many success stories of people who’ve met and married someone outside of their country even. But in all those situations, within about two months, they actually met in person, because you can waste a lot of time, whether it’s somebody that’s across town or somebody that’s across the country, you can waste a ton of time talking to someone doing facetimes all the time, you know, sending pictures back and forth. I’m not saying what kind of pictures I’m just saying pictures. But if you do not have that compatibility in person, you’re wasting your time. Are you hearing me, You’re wasting your time. So you need to move things forward. So when you do do those virtual dates, if you’re in a position like Oh, say everyone is right now in the era of COVID, and you can’t meet face to face yet, make sure you make those FaceTime special. Don’t just like, Oh, well, I’ll call you after work or what have you. You have to make a plan, make a date plan, make it have an activity, you know, give it some depth to it up, give the date some depth and make it something a little bit more meaningful so that you’re deepening the relationship and not just spending time and certainly not wasting time.

 

My next question comes to us in an email from a woman we’ll call n she says I’m a black woman living in China. I’ve had trouble meeting people because I’m seen as ugly here. I also date women, which is still very taboo. I can’t leave due to work and school. So that’s not an option. I go out and meet people. But again, no one seems attracted to me. What can I do? Here’s the thing, and I want to make sure that you understand that this is a pool problem. So I look at like, Is this an internal problem? When I hear a question like this? Is this something that’s coming on up? Is this a mindset challenge? Is this a process challenge? Or is this a pool challenge? And to me, this is a pool challenge. you’re battling hundreds, if not 1000s, of years of racial bias, and it’s something that you alone cannot take on yourself? Does that mean that you cannot find love in China? Absolutely not. But what it means is that, you have to be very careful not to internalize that, and not to take that on to mean something about yourself. Because I’m sure you are absolutely beautiful, you are not ugly, even if the messages you feel that you’re getting in China are saying that to you. And this is an important message for people. Maybe you’re not in China, but maybe you are in I got this question yesterday on another podcast I was a guest on. She said, What if I live in a small town, and I have a different political stance, and the other people around me are what if I am a different race, and I don’t feel like I fit in here. And I have been through that. I have lived in towns where I didn’t feel like I fit into the standard of beauty in America. And it’s really important that you keep perspective on that. And also remember that it’s not about quantity. It’s about quality. So could you find that one person that appreciates who you are, and sees you for the beautiful person that you are inside and out? Could you find a woman who isn’t as concerned about the taboos of dating that you could form a relationship with? I do think the dating apps are probably going to be your best bet. Because if you are going out and constantly being based with rejection, it’s going to feel more intense. And this was a big shift for me too. When I moved to Los Angeles and found that there were tons of men who were interested in me, they just weren’t necessarily in my circle at that time. So keep the faith and keep positive if you can. And just know that the way that you’re going to make a match may mean going against the grain. But there is somebody out there who will appreciate you for all you are and all you do.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:53  

Hi Dimona. This is Judith, I’m talking to you from Paris. I have one question for you. I was wondering, do you think we should all add a profile picture with a mask wearing a mask on because I see them more and more. And I wonder, why would people do that? And I wonder if I should take a selfie with a mask? What do you think?

 

Damona  18:19  

Judith? I love this question. I’m really curious also what the mass culture is like in Paris, because here, it’s like a statement whether or not you’re wearing a mask. But I would say I’ve seen this too on my clients dating apps while I’m searching. And I’m not a big fan of the mask in the dating app. I know it does. It’s kind of a double edged sword, it does indicate that you are taking COVID seriously, and you’re going to follow certain precautions while you’re on a date. But at the same time, I want to see your face, I want to see it’s one of the rare opportunities, I’ll have to actually see what you look like. So I think the app is really valuable real estate, every picture you choose tells a story. And I just would hate to use that real estate to show you in a mask when I could see your gorgeous face. But that answers your question of why people would do it. But I don’t know that I would recommend you doing it unless you find in Paris like that is really the culture. I really key off in dating apps, what I see also in the style of that particular app, so it could be the app that you’re on. And if that is the thing to do on that app, then certainly you want to show you’re not an anti masker you’re if you’re a pro masker but it’s not something that I would say is an absolute profile requirement. This question comes to us from Apple on Instagram. She says I’m dating someone I met on Bumble. Yay. Did y’all hear that episode last week, the Bumble success story. Okay, moving on. She says we’ve also been virtually dating other people, but not as seriously. He wants to become physically exclusive, but not romantically yet. I agree we shouldn’t rush into premature couple status. But do you think I should have sex with him until there’s a full commitment? This is a curious question Apple, because I want to know the difference between what is physically exclusive, but not romantically yet. I guess, physically exclusive in the era of COVID. Maybe this is a new category that we can crown because that means that you’re having sex with each other, but you’re not necessarily in a committed relationship. So this is sort of a committed f web since you’re in the same bubble. But I would just ask you, apple, do you want that? Is that what you want? Or do you want something more serious? Do you want a full commitment, because if you want a commitment, you should communicate that to them. And if you want more romance, I think you need to hold him to that standard. Nothing wrong. Of course, if you decide that you do need your physical needs met, and this relationship might not blossom into something more. But it’s tough when you are physical with someone and you haven’t had the conversation about what that means to you. And then you have an expectation that because you’ve done that it’s going to grow into something else. Does that make sense? So it’s all about clarity. It’s all about expressing what you truly want, and making sure that your actions are in alignment with that, because actions as you know, are going to speak louder than words. This email comes to us from a woman named a she says, I’m a 35 year old divorced mom. After my divorce, I was in a car accident that left me with permanent brain damage. How do I put myself out there knowing that I would be relying on my long term partner to bear most of the financial responsibility? First of all, a Wow, thank you for sharing your story with us. And I’m so sorry to hear that happen to you. I’m sure it’s a challenge every day for you to do the things that used to come really easily to you. And it’s something that obviously Yes, does need to be sort of incorporated into your dating strategy. But at the same time, I don’t know that it’s something that you need to limit yourself by or make the assumption that the other person would not be okay with it. And I’ve heard some questions before people with different disabilities

 

making that assumption as well. So everybody, I think, needs to hear this. One, I don’t know the extent of your brain damage, but it’s possible he might not need to bear the financial responsibility there could there are a lot of ways that you can get creative with making money today. So keep open the possibility that you could find a way to be more financially independent. But secondarily, there are plenty of guys that are okay with bearing the financial responsibility. And it’s not necessarily looked at as a burden, I would look at the other things that you can offer to the relationship besides finances, and really lean into that, can you offer him comfort? can you offer him the feeling of being appreciated? Can you be a maybe be a great parent to his children, there’s so much more than I’m sure you have to offer. So don’t put that pressure on yourself to bring in the financial responsibility piece. And I don’t even really feel like it needs to enter into the conversation very early in the dating process for anyone. I think we put way too much emphasis on somebody’s financial means if you’re a grown up, and you’re taking care of your own finances, and you know, look, whether that is through disability, or other, you know, a settlement or other means, doesn’t matter. As long as your bills are paid. You don’t need anybody else to do that for you. And you don’t need to worry about someone being a drain on your resources or being a drain on somebody else’s. So go out there and just make connections a and I’m sure you will find somebody that appreciates what you’re able to bring to the table. This one comes to us from one of our friends with benefits.

 

Unknown Speaker  24:35  

Good afternoon demona. So I’ve heard your podcast on various episodes, and I’ll actually followed your Facebook group as well. And I believe you give wonderful advice. So my question is, is that the person I’m dating here and I are opposites in that I’m very much an extrovert and he is an introvert And we follow those personalities kind of to the quiet. Well, we had a conversation and turns out that we both ping each other out of each other’s comfort zone, which is I’m sure a good thing. But my question is, is that is it good that we realize that we bring stuff out of each other? A good thing being that we have various personalities? Or do you think being a one person being an introvert and one person being an extrovert is problematic? When you want to become more, more serious in a relationship, especially now in the climate that we’re in? What would be your advice?

 

Damona  25:46  

Okay, we talked to the top of the show about opposites attracting. Now I’m curious, introvert extrovert? Where does the where do those qualities fit into the grand scheme of values or lifestyle traits? Well, I can tell you that my husband and I are that exact match I am. case you can’t tell very high on the extrovert scale. And he is very high on the introvert scale, if you couldn’t tell from the episode that we did together a few weeks ago. And I think we do bring out the best in one another, we do get each other out of our comfort zones in a good way. And I think that is something that is helpful in a relationship. If you have somebody that really complements your skills, and your sensitivities. As long as they don’t see that as a problem or see that as an issue. I think it’s a great thing. And there have been times where I dated extroverts. And it didn’t work all that well, because somebody has to do the listening, and one of us is always talking, namely me. So I think if you’re in a relationship with somebody that makes you your best self, that can only be a good thing. By the way, that listener is actually in our Patreon Friends with Benefits group as well. So if you you heard the Facebook group that she referenced, is my patreon Fw B’s page. And I love to invite you inside that group too. You can join for just five bucks@patreon.com slash dates and mates will also put the link to that in the show notes. This question comes to us from a listener named Susan, she says I started online dating three years ago and I thought I met my person. We talked about marriage after two years of dating, but then he had to recover from a financial setback. After that, he said that he is comfortable in his current situation, and didn’t intend to remarry anytime soon. I’m considering returning to online dating but I’m so apprehensive because I don’t enjoy this method of meeting people. But because of COVID options are limited. Help exclamation point. Oh, Susan, Susan, other there’s so much here that I want to unpack for you, first of all, men. And hello to the guys listening. I’m going to talk about you for a minute. Because of our culture, men are really conditioned to need to feel that they can provide before they’re ready to move into a marriage situation, and especially if he is divorced. Sounds like you said remarry. So he was divorced. Plus, he had a financial setback. He’s feeling very insecure with his financial situation right now. And I have to let you know, it doesn’t actually have anything to do with you. It has to do with his own feelings of worth, because society has told him that he is not good enough if he doesn’t have the financial means to take care of himself and potentially also a partner. So that might be hurt. So after three years, that might be hard to hear. Because the situation isn’t going to change probably until his financial situation changes. And he may have internalized this for so long, that it may not be possible to turn it around even after he’s able to get on his feet financially. So that leaves you

 

that so that leaves you with the decision, Susan, you can stay in the relationship as it is without it necessarily moving towards marriage. And then you’d have to do some soul searching about what the importance of marriage is to you and whether you could stay in a relationship with somebody with a commitment that doesn’t look like the traditional marriage commitment. Or Yes, you could move on. Now honey, we got to talk about this. I don’t like the method of online dating to meet People, because one, it is the most popular way of meeting someone. And you are living proof, Susan, you met a three year relationship from dating apps. So I would say it’s working for you, you just have to remember that the app is just the connector. It’s just the way that you connect. And then once you get offline, which theoretically is within a couple of weeks, then it’s going to just unfold like another relationship you met in any other situation. And yes, because of COVID options are limited. So I’m glad you got that message. But I really want to help you embrace the apps as something that is positive, because it’s bringing so many options to you, there are so many more options for women and men, but particularly for women today, because of dating apps, there are so many women that were 40 5060 that just were out of the dating game, if they got divorced, or they they got they got broken up with after three years, they would just be like, well, I guess this is my life. Now I guess I’m going to just commit myself to my cats, and my kids and my grandkids. And that is not the case today. So let’s just see if we can flip our thinking and say, this is a situation, this is the number one way to meet people now. How can I make this tool work for me? For those of you who are also feeling maybe a little down on dating apps, or just a lot a little down on dating in general, today, in the era of COVID, I really want to support you, I strongly encourage you to check out my new dating Secret Circle, I want to invite you inside the circle, I want to give you more of my inside advice. I want to support you through this so that you can find a way I just had a client say after doing one of my last programs that she feels so much more positive about dating, more positive about men. And so this is an opportunity, I’m extending my hand to you and saying Please come inside the circle. Let me take care of you. Let me show you the way to do this. And we can all move into stronger relationships next year. And we can navigate this pandemic, it doesn’t have to be the end of love. So check that out at the dating secret.com. That’s for Susan and anyone listening who wants into the circle. It’s a co Ed circle this time, first time ever, and it begins in mid January. So get yourself into the group and get that early bird pricing which is happening. Right now we’ll put the link in the show notes. I hope you enjoyed Episode 341 of dates and mates. As always, if you want to learn more about those dating dish, as always, we’ll put the link to those dating dish stories we discussed in the show, recap at dates and mates.com. And you also have the option to join me in the Facebook friends with benefits Patreon group. And that’s just five bucks at dates and mates. And that’s just five bucks@patreon.com slash dates and mates. Hit me up on all the socials. I’m at damona Hoffman and we are already collecting questions for next month’s dear demona episode, you see how fun it was when people recorded a voice memo and you could actually hear their voices. I want to hear your voice too. So you can DM me? Or you can send me a voice memo at demona at damona hoffman.com. And please do let me know.

 

Unknown Speaker  33:33  

I want to say let me know how you can.

 

Damona  33:36  

And please do tell a friend about the show. We are trying to heal more hearts and get people on track for love in 2021. So do me a favor, share this episode with someone who needs to hear one of these messages.  And we have to put in a call like this is the end of the season. Basically our end of the this is the last official episode of 2020. Who y’all we made it We made it to the end, I have a special bonus that’s going to be dropping. Next week. Get excited. It will be a short little snack that’ll tie you over until we are back in January. And in case you missed the memo, Tuesdays, that’s the new dates and mates day. So look out for a new episode Tuesday, January 5. And in the meantime, get yourself online for dating Sunday. So Tuesday January 5 will be the next official episode of dates in mates. I have an awesome guest, Mark groves, who’s going to be talking about healing from breakups. Moving on, and starting off the new year on the right foot. I can’t wait to share that episode with you. Hey, make sure you’re subscribed so you don’t miss it. So you know when dates and made starts on Tuesdays you’re not looking for that episode on Monday. Go on what happened? It’s gonna land right in your in your podcast feed Tuesday morning. If you’re subscribed I wish you all the best for this holiday season. Hang in there more coming your way and 2021 until then, I wish you happy dating

 

 

The Bumble Blueprint & Linguistic Love Cues

NOW IS THE TIME FOR LOVE

The pandemic has been a wild rollercoaster ride of love for so many people. At the beginning Damona advised everyone should embrace virtual dates, then we moved onto social distance dates then back to virtual dates again. 

You wonder, “But Damona, how can you actually make a connection that way?”

Kyle and Olivia from Atlanta, met on Bumble, and we can’t wait to share with you how it all went down so you can learn how you too could find love right now.

But first, our dating dish.

DATING DISH (3:16)

The Year in Swipe

Tinder spills all the tea in 2020’s Year in Swipe Report.

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Sparks Fly on Virtual Dates, But Not So Much in Real Life

If you’re feeling the connection on virtual dates, you might not have in-person chemistry. Damona weighs in. 

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How to Win Someone Over

The Harvard Business Review teaches us how to win someone over. 

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LOVE IN THE TIME OF CORONA (12:50)

Kyle and Olivia found love in 2020 on Bumble. They share exactly how it happened and what timeline you can expect with your Bumble Boo – or POF Person, Tinder Tie-Up, Facebook Dating Friend with Benefits… etc. 

via GIPHY

 

FOLLOW ALONG HERE:

Unknown Speaker 0:00
It’s a tale as old as time. He’s handsome, debonair. She’s pretty and sweet. They lock eyes across the room.

Damona 0:10
Okay, hold on. Honey, you need to get your facts straight. Finding love today is more like Greece posts to get my

Unknown Speaker 0:18
swipe was invited to share my life.

Unknown Speaker 0:21
What does this text mean?

Unknown Speaker 0:22
Maybe he’s just not that into me is this relationship going anywhere,

Damona 0:26
you can keep waiting for the fairytale. Or you can get on board with the new rules of relationships. If you’ve read my advice in the LA Times, then you know, this ain’t your mama’s love advice. This is dates in mates with damona Hoffman. Hello, lovers, welcome to dates and mates, happy holidays, happy almost time for a vaccine day. Whoo, this pandemic, it’s been a wild roller coaster ride a love for so many people. You know, at the beginning, I advised you, you should embrace virtual dates. And then we moved into social distance dates. But then with the spike in numbers, I was like, Nah, you need to go back to the virtual dates. And you said but damona? Maybe you didn’t say it like that. But you were like, how can you actually make a connection that way. And I told the same thing to my clients. And I said that the process is the same, you know, I have a dating process. It’s the same even though it might be happening virtually. But it takes at least three months of really committing to a dating plan, usually, for my clients to finally see a shift. And I have to admit, in November, spirits were low, many of my clients wanted to throw in the towel. And some of them even doubted that system would still work in a pandemic. And they thought maybe this just wasn’t their season for love. After we did our single hit episode. So many people said to me, like yeah, I’m tapping out. Thanks for thanks for giving me the out Dimona, I’m out of here. But you know what I have, I got three different emails this week from clients who have moved literally from basically hopelessness into almost exclusivity in just a couple weeks. And I got to meet incredible couple who connected virtually at the height of the pandemic, and their relationship couldn’t be stronger. So I am a big believer in virtual love. And I also believe that even in the midst of a pandemic, you could still have your season to meet someone if you want it. I’ll be talking to Kyle and Olivia from Atlanta, they met on Bumble. And I cannot wait to share with you how it all went down. So you can learn how you too could find love right now. But first, you know, I like to do these headlines. And there’s a lot happening. Tinder spills all the tea in there 2020 year and swipe report. And watch out if you’re feeling the connection on virtual dates you might not have in person chemistry. Plus, the Harvard Business Review teaches us how to win someone over. Oh, that one is a brain bender. And there’s so much more coming up on dates and mates today. Now it’s time for the dish, these dating dish. Y’all know I love a good report. And Tinder. Tinder is the number one dating app. So I trust their data. And I love digging into it to know what’s really going on what’s happening on the front lines of dating apps today. So that I can tell you, and there is a lot in here that was super juicy. We covered this report last year, I think was the first year that they did it. And obviously, when you think back to December 2019, to where we are today, what a difference a year makes, obviously, more messaging and more swiping they were up nearly double digits by the end of the year compared with even just February of this year, which is usually high season for the dating apps between January and February. That’s when they see the big spike in new users. We spiked double digits beyond that. And of course the pickup game change the pickup lines started shifting even as early as March they started hearing a lot of quarantine and chill, you know, you know, they’re they can track what people are saying in their messages. They base people got real corny with this, they were like let’s be like COVID and catch each other or wash your hands so you can hold mine. I don’t recommend any pickup lines like that, but I’m sure it made a couple of people giggle and maybe led to some connections. And there were also evolutions in the emoji usage I covered last year how the facepalm was the big emoji of 2019 we have evolved it’s no longer the facepalm it’s not even in the top 10 maybe that’s just because We don’t want to have our hands in our face, because we know that we could transmit COVID that way.

Now the most common apps are the, you know, the shrug emoji that like, What? What’s up? everybody’s like, I don’t know what’s happening. It’s COVID. Of course, the the mask emoji that one that’s obviously genius, and toilet paper, and grocery carts, which I didn’t even know, were emojis. I literally didn’t know that those existed in the emoji keyboard. But now they’re really hot on Tinder. Should you use them to make a connection? I think you could do better, I think you could talk about something a little bit more with more depth to it. They also saw that politics were a hotter topic than before. People lay down those political deal breakers, right in their bios, I said that in episodes leading up to the election, and also mentions of Black Lives Matter on the platform were up 55 times amid, you know, you know what happened, you know, you know, so you know, Black Lives Matter has been a thing for a long time. But of course, this year, people are talking about it in a new way and talk of voting doubled in the months leading up to the 2020 election. So that’s what’s on everybody’s mind. But I really feel like there’s been a shift in the dating landscape. Even just since the election ended, I feel like people in the last month have become a lot more open to dating. But of course, as numbers are spiking, you have to be safe. So the New York Times tells us how you can make a connection on a virtual date. Of course, as I mentioned, at the top of the show, at the beginning of the pandemic, everybody turned to video dating to make connections like we were all just grabbing at straws, like I’m stuck here this house I need human connection. And then we really fatigued over the the whole virtual dates and just being on zoom for the whole day. Like now I have to have a zoom date. That’s not cute. So this article really examines how to make a connection over video and they told some stories of people who thought that they had a connection over video. But once they met face to face, they didn’t always feel that spark anymore. They interviewed this behavioral expert, she’s based in Amsterdam, so she has a name that I’m probably going to butcher and Marja ood is how I’m told it is said, people are going to correct me I’m sure on it. But I think things must be really different in Amsterdam, because she recommended that you want to really give a person a sense of what you look like on camera. So she said show yourself fully by standing up and turning around for a clear view of how you look even if it feels awkward. And no, no, not in my book. Okay, so you can play by Anne’s book, or you can play by the damona Hoffman dates and maids rule book, that is weird, do not do it, you also have to leave something to the imagination. And I really don’t think that it’s going to help you at all to to show your body moving on. Unless you have like a reason like you’re gonna make it cool. Like we’re gonna do a dance off. If the person is into dancer if even though they’ve had like six gmts or something. But otherwise, no, just stay seated and just be regular. Okay, just be normal, be your normal self.

And also focus on listening, of course and asking good questions, but also creating more interaction. You’ve heard me say this before gamify the date play 20 questions like really make it more than just like feeling like a work meeting. And then of course, they say, as soon as it’s safe, try to get offline and meet face to face as soon as possible. That is the same thing that I say. And I just did a refinery 29 interview last week and and the writer was asking me about how quickly it should progress if you’re in the virtual date phase. And now we can’t really go on social distance dates too easily. And I really feel like it’s the same timeline. It’s just that now we can’t, we can’t move offline as quickly. So you need to make those virtual dates feel a little bit juicy or but still after, I would say probably two or three max virtual dates, like put on your snow pants and figure out a way to actually connect face to face because I do think that face to face connection is really important. And you’re going to hear a little bit more about that experience as I talk to our Bumble couple in just a moment. And if you’re wondering how to make that great connection when you do meet face to face. This is this. This is a little bit of a twist for dates and mates. We actually took a page out of the Harvard Business review for you this week on how to win someone over. So this is not a dating article or study like we normally report on this was actually a study about lawyers and how they win over judges but producer Leone, I thought it was so fascinating because a lot of the advice that they give is the same thing that I tell my clients about mirroring, linguistic mirroring, and even body language mirroring. So in this article, which of course will link to in the show notes at dates and mates calm. It said, when you mirror your counterparts preferred communication style, they’re more likely to find you convincing or feel familiar or authentic. And that is really a big part of the connection. Like what what are people looking for, they’re not looking to be impressed by you, they’re not looking to have you list off all of the wonderful things about you and your your house and your boat, and your dog and your your job. And like all these things that that make us feel like we have value in today’s society know, somebody wants to feel like they connect with you that they feel like you’re real, and they feel seen by you and like you get them. And linguistic mirroring is something that happens naturally, when you feel a connection to someone but hot tip you can actually create more connection by intentionally mirroring their linguistic flow, like the way that they speak their inflection, their tone, their volume. And that’s just one little piece of the pie. Obviously, I have tons more than I could tell you. I share a lot of it with our Patreon friends with benefits in our little secret private Facebook group. So if you want to get more tips on flirting or more tips on virtual dates, make sure you check us out@patreon.com slash dates and mates you can join there for just five bucks. When I come back, I will have the cutest couple that I have ever seen. who met on Bumble in the middle of a pandemic. And I feel hopeful I’m in a relationship and they made me feel hopeful. So I’m really hoping that they make you feel hopeful as well. So stick around. Welcome back to dates and mates. I know you’ve probably thought once or twice about giving up on finding love in a pandemic. But it’s time to think about it just one more time and maybe change your mind. I am here with Kyle and Olivia, they live in Atlanta. And they found love on Bumble in 2020. Yes, in the middle of a pandemic. So if you’ve been down on the dating apps, give me a chance to prove you wrong today. Please help me give big smooches to my guests, Kyle and Olivia.

Unknown Speaker 12:50
Hi, guys.

Damona 12:52
I’m so glad you could be here with me. Let me tell you people are out here and these online dating streets struggling they are struggling. So first of all, congratulations to you for finding one another at a time like this. But I want to hear I want to hear everything I want to hear the good, the bad and the ugly, the ups and the downs. And how you came to find each other on Bumble finally. So you’re not new to dating apps. Right? Olivia, you’ve done this before you had done this before about the dance.

Unknown Speaker 13:30
The dance is a tango. And sometimes you win sometimes you lose. But I will say I’ve been on Tinder I’ve been on hinge I’ve been on Bumble Bumble has always been my favorite. To be honest. I think that people on Bumble are more serious about relationships or finding a relationship rather than the hookup culture that has now been created. And I can honestly say I was struggling to before I met Kyle of but I found it I decided to just try Bumble again at the top of the pandemic, there really wasn’t much going on. I was going to work on home structure and it seemed indefinite. And so I was balancing working from home I had a roommate at the time who did the bumblebee line and encouraged me to actually do it as well. And I did it first. In March. I think it was more of like the middle of March and match with some guys, but that fizzled out. And so I kind of was disheartened. So I was kind of in the mindset of I’m not doing it anymore. I don’t want to be on Bumble. This is terrible. The pandemics not gonna last that long. But then I really said no. Try it again. See what happens. So I said okay, fine. I’ll take the bat Beeline. I’ll do it one more time. And then I saw Kyle and my Beeline and I matched with him and we just kind of took it from there.

Damona 14:49
Whoo. I can’t wait to hear all the juiciness of what happened once you met but I got to hear from you, Kyle. Did you have a similar experience with dating apps before?

Unknown Speaker 14:59
Sure. Bumble was the only dating app that I had ever tried. I liked it so much because it puts women in the driver’s seat. And sometimes that’s half the battle. And, you know, you have to reach out to them like another apps that I’ve heard on, he had to reach out to them. He had to hope they’re interested, but it makes makes women kind of like, you know, the aggressor in a way, like, okay, like, I want you and you guys match. So I like that. I really like that because they have to come outside their comfort zone. So um, that’s why

Damona 15:42
I am seeing a look from Olivia right now. Like when you said it makes women the aggressor. What was that?

Unknown Speaker 15:47
Look?

Unknown Speaker 15:48
I guess my leg was kind of I feel like maybe I cheated at that. Because Because with the Beeline, what’s so great about is that you see guys that already like to you. So I kind of knew he was already interested. I wasn’t swiping to see if you know, if we match. It was kind of like, oh, he already likes me. So I can swipe. And we’re just an automatic match. I think I kind of cheated.

Damona 16:13
Was that your your strategy? Like? Did you have a dating app strategy?

Unknown Speaker 16:18
No, I honestly, this was my second time using the Beeline but I’ve never used the Beeline prior to the pandemic, I think that I was at a point where I wanted to leave through even more the people that I wasn’t interested in and kind of get a leg up because I do like Bumble because the woman takes the first has the first move. But at the same time, you could match or swipe with so many people and reach out to them. And then they don’t reply back or they take too long to reply back. So I think that the Beeline really helped me kind of propel or push faster into getting to know someone because I knew they already liked me. And it was a quicker start to the conversation. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 16:58
definitely.

Damona 16:59
Kyle, did you what How did you meet women before?

Unknown Speaker 17:04
Oh, before Bumble.

Damona 17:07
Yeah. Or had you been doing Bumble for a long time. And that was like your that was your main dating app squeeze.

Unknown Speaker 17:12
I was doing Bumble for all of 2019 um, and it was exhausting. be socially exhausting, because I was I was going on so many first dates. And you know, they would just like live said just fizzle out. And but I kept you know, going back to and then I would stop, you know, I, I kind of I am gonna chill for a minute, then I go back and then I was stopped. So before that on it. Honestly, I was pretty. I was pretty like oblivious. I was really like in my work. And that’s all I was doing. And I was in a long, like a long term relationship before that. So I really didn’t know anything about like the new dating world and dating apps or, you know, tenders or anything like that. So, um,

Damona 18:03
that’s the way to do it. Olivia, you got to get them while they’re fresh, fresh meat. You know, not all that baggage. All those you know, ideas about it, you just go in there, get the Beeline and snatch them. No. No, I do want to know how it actually worked. Once you matched How long did you communicate on the app before you move to the next step? And what was that next step when you did?

Unknown Speaker 18:31
Oh, wow. So I think it was maybe the same day, right? The same day we matched

Unknown Speaker 18:37
Yes.

Unknown Speaker 18:37
We talked the same

Unknown Speaker 18:38
day we matched we talked for I think though the whole day on the app. And you know, just try to get a feel for each other. And, and I know, at that point, being on the app, I was asking questions, like we’re not getting off this app to you know, you answered this, this this I was

Damona 18:57
gonna interview Olivia sometimes,

Unknown Speaker 19:00
because I was asking my list of questions too. And I was gonna say like one thing about us, our profiles kind of have a similar message where his profile said, you know, I’m looking for somebody to take me off of this app. And my profile says something along the lines of like, I’m looking for the last gentleman out there to you know, match with and see where it goes. So when we got into a conversation on that it kind of just flowed into, okay, what do you like, how has the pandemic been for you? What have you been watching? What are you looking for? Are you looking for something serious? And we talked for the remaining remainder of the day into the evening? And then Kyle quickly told me he had work the next morning, so he couldn’t talk to me anymore. Um,

Damona 19:44
so sounds like your feelings were a little bit hurt in that moment.

Unknown Speaker 19:48
He still brings that up. But it was really nice because it to me is showing me my priorities. And I’m like, if he takes his priorities that seriously, I want to be one of those priorities. So I gave him my phone number. And then we quickly took it off the app the next day.

Damona 20:06
Okay, so talk me through that that step Did you gave you gave your phone number to him. Kyle, were you nervous to give her a call? What are you feeling?

Unknown Speaker 20:18
So story? Yes. So the story is, I, I like I have a very dry sensing where I have a very unique sense of humor. So what I did the next day, because I didn’t wait, I don’t believe in the whole all you got to wait a week, and I don’t have time for the game. So what I did was I text her and I told her, Hey, this is Brandon. And she’s like Brandon, Fran, and who? And I was like, you know, remember we met at the club? Or, you know, I made up some elaborate story. And she, she, she kept like, you know, who is this? Or like, when Where did I go to the club? Where what bars like, wow, you don’t remember our conversation, and all that. So finally, she asked for a picture. I’m like, Ah, man, I don’t want the joke to be over just yet. So I sent her a baby picture. And

Unknown Speaker 21:12
I love being blocked.

Unknown Speaker 21:13
Yeah. And I felt it. My spirit. So finally. Finally, I was just like, No, no, just kidding. This is Kyle. And yeah, before I got blocked, because I guess apparently I was

Damona 21:28
so close. Okay, so you’re still just like you were in the app messaging. And now you’re still just messaging but on your phone?

Unknown Speaker 21:35
Yes.

Damona 21:36
So when did you make it make real like real contact?

Unknown Speaker 21:40
So we messaged on the phone once I realized he wasn’t Brandon. And the job was over. And it was kind of it was at first it was funny, because I’m like, No, this is Kyle. I’m saying it in the text. I was like, No, I don’t know. Kyle is Brandon. Okay, this is embarrassing. So you’re going to get blocked very quickly. Um, but the joke subsided and we started conversations, we started talking and I feel like that same day, he FaceTime me for the first time. And so this was April 8. Okay, sorry, talking April 7. Um, and so he based on me, we FaceTime every day after that. We went on our first virtual date which

Damona 22:18
Wait, hold on, before you get into the virtual day, I have to pause because the FaceTime This is a point of contention for me and a lot of my clients here. Did you just just out of the blue FaceTime? Or did you make a plan to cut to FaceTime her?

Unknown Speaker 22:35
I don’t know if I honestly, I don’t know, if I actually made a plan did we

Unknown Speaker 22:40
know you FaceTime me out of nowhere, which I know is quite taboo.

Unknown Speaker 22:43
I don’t know, you’re allowed to just FaceTime out of nowhere, you just meet someone, um,

Damona 22:48
did she pick up.

Unknown Speaker 22:50
So I picked up and I quickly had to get my life together. I didn’t miss the FaceTime call. Um, but because I was already home, I’m kind of doing the meat of Zoo meetings and things like that I was already okay. So when I picked up for him, I was able to talk to them. Um, and the conversation was very normal. And it was like I knew him. Like we were already friends. We talked, we crack jokes about things we were interested in, we talked about our day. Um, so it actually played out really well for us. And then we facetimed all the time after that really didn’t use the phone. And we texted a lot when we couldn’t talk. If he had meetings, I had meetings doing stuff. And I think we had that mutual respect of we don’t want to call her talk constantly, or didn’t want to be needy or desperate. But we had enough where I felt like at least for him as a guy. He was still showing interest in me. So I was feeding that back.

Damona 23:45
And at this point, in the pandemic, things were still very locked down. It’s not like you could just be like, hey, let’s go grab a drink, maybe would that have been what you would do in normal times? And the pace timing was sort of a substitute for a real date?

Unknown Speaker 23:59
Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, we definitely would have like to go out or anything like that, but we kind of had to, like do the virtual dates and things. So yeah, it was definitely a new experience. adjustment.

Damona 24:15
So how long are you going back and forth on FaceTime before you decide to actually mate?

Unknown Speaker 24:21
Wow. Oh, that

Unknown Speaker 24:23
was at least a month.

Unknown Speaker 24:26
Yeah, I think it was like a month.

Unknown Speaker 24:27
So I was a little bit more paranoid at the time. I had a roommate and she was a nurse at chellah. So Children’s Healthcare of Atlanta. So I was living with somebody who was saying the front lines is this is serious, this is going to get worse. And so he was very interested in doing virtual dates, but sending me food be Uber Eats or doordash. And so it was a sweet idea because we were supposed to eat dinner together and watch like a movie virtually or tune into what was it the Teddy Riley Baby, baby. So we watch different things together, but I I was like, I don’t First off, I’m not eating outside of my house. I don’t want to eat anything from anyone else. And then at the time, I also didn’t want to give him my address. I really didn’t know him.

Unknown Speaker 25:09
She shut me down.

Unknown Speaker 25:11
I shut him down a couple of times, um, for the food, but I gave it we gave it about a month. Mm hmm. Because everybody was saying at the time, you know, two weeks 14 days quarantining, so I kind of said, All right, it’s been a month, he hasn’t shown any symptoms. I talked to him sunup to sundown, and I haven’t heard him call once. So maybe we can meet. Um, and I was very particular about our meeting, it had to be outside. I wanted it to be during the day, and I wanted it to be at least close enough to me, or to you where we weren’t driving out of the way because you have to be safe, like as a woman and you have to be safe. And you know, during the panel, you know, side a lot of rule. Lots of rules somebody put up with

Damona 25:56
Kyle, did you have any? any qualms about meeting her? She’s living with a nurse who was on the front lines? Would did that make you nervous at all?

Unknown Speaker 26:07
Um, honestly, no. Because she was so like, in a bubble. Even though like, you know, that she mentioned her roommate was a nurse, but still, she was so much in her bubble. Like she said, I wouldn’t. I wasn’t even able to send food to her. She wasn’t even getting like takeout or anything. So I was like, Okay, well, if anybody would, you know, probably be mean, but. So we were fine with that. Yeah, we were I was fine with it.

Damona 26:32
Okay, so where did you go when you finally couldn’t meet up?

Unknown Speaker 26:37
When you walk?

Damona 26:41
You know, say that one more time.

Unknown Speaker 26:42
We took a walk. Where?

Unknown Speaker 26:45
Yeah. So he was still going into his office. I was working from home. And yeah, exactly. But it was social distance. There wasn’t a lot of people in his office. They were still being safe. But he was in his office during the day. So I took a lunch break from work. And I said, Okay, well, I’ll come see you on my lunch break. And then we can take a walk. He said he actually he actually came up with it. He said we could take a walk near his job because there was a kind of Plaza restaurant area near his job. So he said, I want to it all the time from my lunch break. So we could just take lunch together. And I said, Okay, well, I’m not eating anywhere, but we can take the walk. He said, Okay, so I dropped his job. And I got out the car. And we met for the first time we gave each other hug. We went on this walk

Damona 27:35
mask and you’re fully masked, right? Or no, this is before masks were mandated.

Unknown Speaker 27:40
Yeah. For mask or mandated. So we know masks. I’m walking talking with people weren’t around as if we saw people, we went a different way. Yeah. Um, you wanted to get out here.

Damona 27:56
I want to know what your first impressions were. Because that that transition is sometimes unexpected for people when they move from the from the app or from FaceTime to actually seeing each other. Kyle, what did you think the minute you first saw her in real life?

Unknown Speaker 28:12
So first off, she was as cute as she is now. Um, so what she was, she had just like a glow about her. And I really appreciated that. We just saw each other. And it was like, Oh, there you are. Oh, there you are. But it was it was like a comfortable feeling. Like there wasn’t there wasn’t any nervousness or anything like that. So that’s something that I definitely took notice of because we were on that walk. And it wasn’t like it wasn’t uncomfortable. I don’t think it was just very

Unknown Speaker 28:46
agreeable. I was definitely nervous

Unknown Speaker 28:49
a lot. I wasn’t.

Unknown Speaker 28:51
I was nervous, because I had talked to this person every day for a month. And I like you know, the fear. I guess for me, online dating is you grow this relationship with someone and then it could be a catfish, or that person could be crazy. Or they could have that intention. So it was a little nerve wracking to finally meet this guy that I was so interested in and like gel so well that I was like, Oh my gosh, I hope normal. I hope he likes me. I hope I was cute. I hope it doesn’t rain, I hope and just so many things. Because Yeah, so I think the thing I was definitely a little bit nervous. But as we walk the conversation flowed the same way it did on our own calls, so I felt more and more comfortable.

Damona 29:30
Could you tell she was nervous, Kyle?

Unknown Speaker 29:33
I couldn’t, honestly until until just now I didn’t know that she was nervous. But as we took our walk, we you could just tell that I think that you became more and more comfortable. And by the end of the walk, it was like Okay, so this is it. Yeah.

Damona 29:51
So considering there’s a pandemic, and you’re probably not on the app talking to other people, I’m guessing. I don’t want to step in any Thing awkward. No, we

Unknown Speaker 30:02
talked about that too. Um, I wasn’t talking to anybody. When I was in when I initially matched with Kyle, I matched with other guys. But our conversation went so well. And I really was losing hope. So I was kind of like, you know what this conversation so I’ll focus only on this person. And so I didn’t have anybody else. I was juggling at the time it was solely talking

Unknown Speaker 30:23
to him. Yeah. When when we matched, and we started talking, um, I think after we FaceTime, I completely like just, even though even though we didn’t have that initial conversation of exclusivity, I like, put my thing on Do Not Disturb. Because I don’t like no distractions or anything like cool. I want to focus on this. And I think even I’m sorry, to whoever or she’s listening. But somebody gave me their number. Wow, like we were in, I just didn’t even use it. Right. So they’re kind of just out there in the lurch.

Damona 31:02
Oh, but that happens so much, right? That happens a lot. These sort of unmet expectations. I also wanted to address what you said Olivia, about, that the nervousness coming from all that expectation, you’d spent a month getting to know each other. And usually in regular times, I would tell my clients move offline as quickly as possible, you need to see if this is the real deal in the real world. And so there’s less expectation, but you can’t do that in the middle of a pandemic. And even though we had a summer that was a little bit more lacks, in a lot of places where I’m in Los Angeles, things are locked down, and no outdoor dining whatsoever. And a lot of my a lot of my clients and listeners in different places, as the weather is turning, they can’t do dates. They can’t do dates outdoors anymore. And they’re really struggling with that moving the relationship forward. But that fear of what if what if he’s not what I expected him to be, can sometimes keep you in that state of limbo?

Unknown Speaker 32:08
No, definitely. I think that it was a, a not a big fear, especially not on the first date. Because I had, I had gone through the rinse and repeat of online dating where you go on a date with somebody, and maybe it works and it’s great and you want another date and then somehow it fizzles out or it just you know, on that first date, this is never happening again. So I kind of walked into it like okay, this is something that never happens again. I guess I just chalked up another month of my life, doing the rinse and repeat of online dating. But I did go into it very hopeful because we had such a great year. Yeah, it’s like I can’t I know it sounds really cliche, but it’s like I knew him already. It’s like, we were already friends. It was like he just meshed so well with me. And I mesh so well with him that it just really worked. And like he said, I kind of got more comfortable throughout the date itself, because we ended up sitting down on some steps that outside of a church. And then I kind of just leaned and put my head on his shoulder and he put his head on mine. And then I think in that moment I knew okay. Yeah, see where this goes. And I think that we walked back to my car, he walking back to my car, and we were both on conference calls. So we’re still trying to work from home and I under I appreciated his hustle, hustle. I appreciated him being understanding that I slept at work he slashed to where it was a lot of things that we were still making sure that our priorities got taken care of. But we were still making sure we had time for one another.

Damona 33:39
Do you think that you did something different in the staging process? And I’m also curious, do you think COVID and the pandemic and lockdown had an effect on YouTube being able to meet Do you think it would have played out? Maybe differently? If you had met it another time?

Unknown Speaker 34:00
I always say yes. I always say I don’t think that we would have met at a pandemic because

Damona 34:06
I or outside of a pandemic.

Unknown Speaker 34:08
Yeah, outside the pandemic. It was just that that point. I feel like I was more like I’m kind of tired of dating and like when the pandemic hit, I was just like, Alright, let’s see, just one more time. That was my one more time. So it was Kismet, obviously. But yeah, that was my one more time but I always say if it was regular. Now, because I was doing that already the year before I would like have long hiatuses of just not going back on Bumble.

Damona 34:43
What would you say was different? I mean, aside from the global pandemic, do you feel like it had something to do with the way that you paced the relationship getting to know each other over FaceTime or something else that was happening internally.

Unknown Speaker 35:00
Oh, um, we definitely FaceTime more that helped, um, probably more than like when I would, when I was dating previously, that really helped because that believe it or not gave some type of interaction more interaction than just regular talking on the phone. You know, I got to we got to see each other laugh, which is really important. We got to like, as as funny as it may sound like each other in the eye when we’re talking. So it definitely added to the closest right before we met. Mm hmm.

Unknown Speaker 35:41
Was it the same,

Unknown Speaker 35:41
I always say, we would have probably met outside of the pandemic, I think it would have just taken us a little bit longer. I don’t only because he has friends that were in the same area, like people, he has this other business partners, friends, things like that. He, they were in the same place as me and different events the year prior, like during Halloween and things like that, when we were actually able to be out. And so I said, You know, I probably would have ended up at an event you were at, and then we may have met and started talking. But then he says I would have been focused on doing whatever I was doing, I was able to pay attention to you. I would have made you like hello, hi, I would have still pursued you with my personality. But I

Unknown Speaker 36:26
don’t know, I don’t I don’t think so personally, but she says that thing, you know, maybe

Damona 36:31
funny. My husband who was actually on a couple episodes ago, when we met we actually had some mutual friends in common. But we met online. And we know of at least two parties that we were both at and may or may not have met but he says he wouldn’t. He was like, he’s very introverted. He probably wouldn’t have have said anything to me. So like through the app, he was able to gain the confidence and find the right words. And yeah, you know, make the make the right moves. I’m curious how long before you had an actual real date? Or have you? Have you even had a real date? Like, as much as we can in a pandemic? Okay,

Unknown Speaker 37:13
we actually did have our real day and it was perfect because it

Unknown Speaker 37:19
was cookie friendly.

Unknown Speaker 37:19
Yeah, it was inadvertently quote COVID friendly. So we went to the driving. And we went to yet we went to go see a movie at the drive in. But you see bad boys for life? Yeah. So yeah, we went to we went to see bad boys for life. And that tacos first we got tacos from my favorite taco spot. And yeah, and it was just us in the car watching the movie. And I think that it was, that was a great intimate moment for us. Because just us very, right. There’s nobody, like, you know, popcorn spilling on you because somebody else and further, you know, the back or whatever. So it was good. That was our I believe that was our first one. Yeah, we

Unknown Speaker 38:07
hung out. Like I came over and watch movies at his house once I realized that he wasn’t weird and that this was Um, but yeah, we hung out at his house. And then he said, You know, I’m, I want us to do a date. I have a plan. And so that’s one thing that I really appreciate about him is that he is very take charge. And he is very romantic, even though he thinks he’s not I’m very like, into romcoms. He’s, but he’s very romancing and he made a plan. And he said, We’re going somewhere somewhere. Okay, whatever. It was kind of a surprise for me. You didn’t tell me where we were going. He said, we’re gonna get tacos with you both love tacos. So this was perfect. And then he was like, and then we pulled up and I’m like, I’ve been here before. sighs Oh, gosh,

Unknown Speaker 38:48
we’re gonna drive

Unknown Speaker 38:49
and he’s like, yeah, we want to drive in. I want to take you on a day to something COVID friendly, cuz I know you didn’t want to be outside of the house. So I really appreciated it and taking the time to make sure that I was comfortable. And then like you said it was more of an intimate date. Because it was us it was our food. There was nobody really around, you’re playing on the radio. So it was really, really nice and really sweet. And so that was our first in person real date.

Damona 39:15
It’s like the 1950s is kind of romantic. You have your own little bubble there. So speaking of speaking of your bubble, what does it look like? Now? How have you How has the relationship progressed? And like? Olivia, do you have different rules now? Are you eating at other people’s houses? Are you eating at the same house? What’s going on?

Unknown Speaker 39:38
Um, I think I’m, I’m a little bit less with him at least, but like less cautious. I think that we spend a lot of time together whether I’m at his house or he’s at my house. But I don’t think that outside of our relationship. We i’m not i’m still very mask oriented. We have hand sanitizer in our cars. I actually bought him mask, I put masks in his car. And it kind of turned because where I was. So trying to be on guard and trying to set the tone of we need to be careful, we need to be cautious. You need to wear your mask. I think there was a point in what, June or July where I would just get out of the car to go to the supermarket and his keys fully man, I

Unknown Speaker 40:18
don’t have my mask on. And she

Unknown Speaker 40:20
said, What are you doing? And I’m like, What do you mean? So it kind of shifted. And so now it keeps me on top of things, because I’m like, trying to remember Oh, yeah, mask everything. So I think it kind of works out, I feel like our relationship works really well because of a balance. And we’re very balanced in the sense of being precautious for one another, and we do eat out. But where we eat, we make sure the restaurant social distance that they’re wearing masks, we wear masks, when we’re around other people, we tend to be outside, so we’re eating out less now that it’s colder in Atlanta. But um, I think I think that we try to be as cautious as we can. Yeah, um, especially the longer we’re dating, you know, now we’re looking at, you know, blending the families, having my parents meet his parents, having him meet my parents, he’s met my dad, my needs met my sister. So just trying to be cautious in those ways too. Because as we get, you know, as we continue to grow our bond, we don’t want to miss out on the opportunity to continue our life together and stay in just that bubble, our bubble has to somewhat expand just a little bit, just a little bit. But we want to make sure at least I don’t want to be free. But I want to make sure that we can still move forward and progress forward in a positive manner, we

Unknown Speaker 41:37
still have to have those temples of different moments where as long as there’s social distance, and it’s safe for us to continue our relationship as normal as we can.

Damona 41:50
That’s all we’re striving for. As we can be, what advice, tips, inspiration do you have for anyone listening? Who is at this point where so many of my listeners have written in about this phase of COVID and being locked down again. And just the fatigue, they’re fatigued of dating apps, they’re fatigued of texts that go nowhere? They’re just, you know, overwhelmed by the fear of COVID? And how do you even date when you can’t even leave your house? What would you say to them,

Unknown Speaker 42:25
um, it’s possible, it’s very, very possible, you have to be a little more creative. And honestly, you’re going to, this is a great way to weed some some people out, because all you have is conversation, it depends on your level of like, you know, safety as far as COVID goes, but you all you have this conversation with us, I think is great that we met during the pandemic, if you know, the pandemic itself is very unfortunate. But we had our relationship in reverse. We were, we couldn’t go anywhere. So everything was just, you know, finding things to do around the house. Like we we did games where we would know each like find out about each other and ask questions. We had game nights, we had all kinds of stuff. So it makes you more creative. And we didn’t, we didn’t go out like barely, we barely went out. So now we’re just it’s like everyday life. And we did that first. So you have to be ready to, you know, if you do talk to somebody during a pandemic, you have to be ready to do, do things kind of reverse and really get to know them. And it’s honestly, it’s pretty rewarding to them.

Unknown Speaker 43:47
No, definitely, I think my advice would be to always be your genuine self, especially right now. I think that some of the conversations or some of the interactions that other people will have, be open to a friendship. I think that’s also something I think that when I met him and I smashed with him, I was like, Okay, if I get a great guy that I can talk to, and another friend that I can make in this pandemic, then that would be great to because at this point, I had a roommate, so I had social interaction. And I was doing some parties with my sister in New York and her friends. So I had some type of social interaction, but it would have been It was like, Okay, I’m gonna get something great out of this one way or the other. And then sometimes I think that when you go into online dating, it can be disheartening. But I’m, once again, I know it sounds cliche, but he or she is out there. And I think you just have to have the patience to and to not take all the losses or all the bad apples and take them personally. It’s just whatever that person is carrying or moving within life, then that’s how they’re showing up but just kind of see it through. Sometimes you might need to take a little break from it, take a breather, refocus, do something else and then come back to it with her. fresher mind, but always be your genuine self look for laughs look for a good time because it’s it can be really bleak with the pandemic right now. And everybody’s dealing with it in different ways. People are morning people, there’s a lot of grief, a lot of concerns with mental health. So, you know, just try to make connections and see where those connections grow. Like give it the time because right now we have nothing but time. Yep.

Damona 45:24
Well, I couldn’t have said it better myself. Thank you so much for being here and for sharing your amazing love story. You two are adorable together. I know our listeners can’t see you. But you’ll just have to take my word for it. And I just wish her the two of you together. The two of you together are amazing. And I just wish you continued love and happiness and health. together.

Unknown Speaker 45:48
You Sandy.

Damona 45:50
Thank you. This has been Episode 340 of dates and mates. I’m at damona Hoffman on all of the socials. Please DM me your questions. Let me know what you’d like to know. If you’re struggling to find love on dating apps. Let me know where you’re getting stuck. And I could answer your question on a future episode. You can also feel free to send me a message about what you learned from today’s episode. Go ahead and DM me and send me a voice memo. I’d love to hear your voice. You sat here and listen to my voice all this time. I want to hear yours. And you can find me on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook at damona Hoffman. We have just one more episode left for 2020. But the search for Love does not rest. So neither will I I will be doing my weekly q&a as for anyone who needs support over the holidays in my patreon Friends with Benefits group that you can join for just five bucks@patreon.com slash dates and mates. And there’s a whole group of supportive people who are going through the same thing you are and would love to invite you into the circle again, that’s patreon.com slash dates and mates. Next week, we have another dear demona on tap. So do send me your questions. DM me if you can or leave me a voicemail at 424-246-6255 Again, that’s 424-246-6255 we’ll be back again next. I already said that. Let me just say also, and don’t forget to mark Don’t forget to subscribe and don’t forget to subscribe to the show and rate and review. If you are subscribed, you will get our episodes in January. We are moving to a new day on Tuesday. So if you’re not subscribed, you might miss out join the club. Until next week. I wish you happy dating

 

Love Language Gift Guide & Modern Marriage

DOES MARRIAGE EVEN MATTER?

Random fact: One of the most entertaining things about Damona’s job are the emails she gets from Jewish mothers.

You know her work in the LA Times and The Washington Post but did you know that Damona’s very first writing gig was as a dating expert for JDate?

For a while the emails from concerned mothers looking to help their sons in dating had subsided, but now because of the pandemic or politics or COVID, they have kicked up again.

Damona talks to Tod Jacobs & Peter Lynn from Jerusalem to give relationship tips from their new book Not A Partnership: Why We Keep Getting Marriage Wrong & How We Can Get It Right.

But first, let’s dish!

DATING DISH

Holiday Gifts for Any Love Language

How to find the perfect gift for every person in your life– it’s actually less complicated than you think. Damona explains more. 

via GIPHY

 

Dating Studies 2020 Roundup

A complete roundup of every noteworthy study on love for all you science nerds out there. Damona weighs in.

via GIPHY

 

Elliot Page Comes Out As Transgender

A huge congratulations to Elliot Page and why you should be inspired by his story.

via GIPHY

 

GETTING MARRIAGE RIGHT

Tod Jacobs & Peter Lynn compiled a ton of research on marriage in their new book, Not A Partnership: Why We Keep Getting Marriage Wrong & How We Can Get It Right.

 

FOLLOW ALONG HERE:

Damona 0:00
Happy Holidays lovers. It’s December. It’s Hanukkah week. So I’m feeling kind of festive. And I’m thinking a lot about all of the wonderful Jewish mothers who send me emails trying to find a match for their little boy his. I don’t know if you knew this, maybe you’ve read my work in LA Times and in the Washington Post, but did you know that my very first writing gig was actually at j date? Yeah, I was a dating expert for j date. And it was so fun. And it generated quite a lot of emails back then. So for a while, the emails from concerned Jewish mothers looking for help for their sons and dating had subsided. But I don’t know if it’s the pandemic or politics or something else, but they have kicked up again. So to all the Mamas and part time yentas This show is inspired by you. And it’s for anyone who is on the hunt for a happy marriage. In honor of my Jewish grandfather and all of his corny jokes. I will begin my intro today, with a joke set up a rabbi and a Jewish scholar walk into a dating podcast. Okay, there’s no punch line.

Unknown Speaker 1:18
There’s only a setup.

Damona 1:20
But I do have an awesome interview lined up for you. I’ll be talking to Todd Jacobs, and peterlin, who joined me from Jerusalem to give relationship tips from their new book, not a partnership, why we keep getting marriage wrong, and how we can get it right. This interview has caused quite a stir here at dates and mates headquarters, and I can’t wait to hear your thoughts. But first, I need to get you up to speed on the headlines for this week, how to find a special gift for your special person. And it’s actually less complicated than you think. And for you science nerds out there a complete roundup of every noteworthy study on love for 2020 Plus, a huge congratulations to Elliott page, and why you should be inspired by Elliott’s story. All that and more on today’s dates and mates, you’re ready to dish.

Love Languages seem to be in the air I found out this week about a new feature on Bumble, where you can actually add your love language to your profile. So you can figure out if you can speak the same language when you match with someone. But beyond that plenty of fish also added a love language feature they did a post on their blog about the best holiday gifts for everyone based on their love language. So for those of you who are not familiar with the five love languages, it was based on the research of Dr. Gary Chapman. And it breaks us all down into five different types based on how we perceive and receive love. You ever been in a situation where you’re telling somebody you love them and you’re gushing? And you think this person must know how I feel? Because I’m saying it with my words? Well, if they haven’t really acted like they heard it, or they’ve come to you and said, I didn’t really feel loved. It’s because you might have different love languages. Maybe yours is words of affirmation. Theirs is maybe the second one physical touch, or the third gift, or the fourth quality time. Or maybe you’re like me and you’re number five acts of service. So I’m all about those acts of service like you do something for me. Oh, you cook me dinner. Oh, it’s gonna happen. It is on I am so happy. You tell me you love me doesn’t quite land the same way. So if the person is more into, say, words of affirmation, the blocks just something as simple as a handwritten letter could really make the difference for them or meaningful jewelry that has a word that’s really significant to them. This is y’all I’m giving you I’m giving you this is golden. If you are shopping for someone, and you know their love language, check out the dates and mates.com blog because we will link to this and you will know exactly what to get your loved one for this holiday season. All right, my science nerds dating news.com has come through for us they did a roundup of all of the studies from 2020 on love. First of all, I pride myself on being on top of all of this for you. And I try to read all the studies that I can because I love this data. I love seeing how human behavior works in real time. Not in theory, but actually what are we doing and how is the world that we’re interacting with changing the way that we move through relationships, but they even found they found some gems that I didn’t even know. They found that University of Chicago said couples who meet online are less likely to to divorce. That was a seven year study. You’ve heard me say here, but you can check out this dating news.com roundup and see why couples who meet online are less likely to divorce. According to the University of Chicago study. They also said that, OK, Cupid reported one third of women say they get too many messages. But Pew says over half of men say they get too few messages online. Are you seeing a pattern? Is there a solution for this? I think it’s pretty clear when you look at the data. And one that I thought was super interesting plenty of fish again, they did a study on the words in your dating profile. And they found that singles who use the word love are more successful. And actually, when you when you go check out this, this study, or this Roundup, you’ll see that it’s not just the word love, but when you use love, passion words, in your profile, you actually are more likely to get a match. So even using the word relationship, which some people run away from, because they’re afraid if I say relationship, and that’s too serious, then he’s going to run away. Yes, honey, he’s going to run away, because that’s not what he wants, and you don’t want him wasting your time. So those who said relationship in their profiles, actually were more likely to end up in a relationship. There’s so much info, and I don’t want to overwhelm you. But I find it all very fascinating. And if you keep listening to dates and mates, of course, I will keep synthesizing all the most interesting studies down for you every week. You may have also heard in the news about Elliott page announcing that he is trans. Great news on this is he’s getting so much support not just from Hollywood, and from fans and from friends. But also his wife is supporting him and standing by him through this transition. And he also announced his pronouns are he and a. So I look I’m still learning about how to do this correctly, too. So maybe somebody can, y’all are not shy on the DM. So maybe somebody can DM me if I should be using he or if I should be using they there. But I just wanted to acknowledge something that I read about Paige, when he says he was pressured in many cases to always wear dresses, and heels for events and photoshoots. You may remember he starred in the movie Juno. And he’s done a lot of roles. Oh, inception, that was one of my, that’s one of my favorite movies, I’ve probably seen that movie like 10 times. And when he goes to when he went to the red carpets, he was forced to dress a certain way that didn’t align with the way that he felt inside. And it made me think of you all actually it made, it reminded me of what you go through to twist and turn and contort yourself and present yourself to be seen on a date. And I was just having this conversation with a client the other day, who was worried about what to wear to a date that was going to be outside and whether the jacket was was was flattering enough or the right color. And I realized that all this info that I give you about how to present yourself. And these little tricks like I tell you were read in your profile, and how you want to show up in a in a dating profile photo. But I just also want to remind you that the very most important thing is for you to be yourself is for you to be authentic, and for you to actually shed away those layers, so that you can be comfortable in your own skin. So if anyone has gotten a message from me that they have to wear a dress to a date, or they have to show up in a certain way in order to be attractive. Go ahead and scratch that out right now. And replace it with I need to feel sexy, I need to feel feel attractive. I need to feel good and comfortable myself to be my best self on the date. So thank you, Elliot page, thank you for leading the way I know it is it is so hard. It is so hard to go through such a public process of transitioning. And maybe you are not transgender and going through a similar experience. But you can certainly relate to what I just said, of having to pretend that you’re somebody you’re not in order to be liked or loved. And I’d say as we go into this new year, let’s put that aside. Let’s be ourselves, let’s be authentic, let’s be comfortable in our own bodies. And let’s let all the haters fall to the wayside because 2020 is coming off and also our break is coming Write up. I want to share this interview with the authors of not a partnership. It is fascinating and I think you’ll really enjoy it. But you got to stick around for just a moment to hear it.

Welcome back. I’m here with Todd Jacobs and Peter Lynn. They’re both professors at the David Robinson Institute for Jewish heritage in Jerusalem. They’re joining me from all the way across the pond. They help their students figure out a pathway to successful living that uses Jewish tradition, ancient texts, mysticism, Do I have your attention? So look, even if you are not Jewish, you will be able to relate to this interview because it’s all about their research on how to make your marriage strong. And they’ve put it all together in their new book, not a partnership, why we keep getting marriage wrong, and how we can get it right. So no matter what your faith, if you’re relationship minded, maybe even marriage minded, you need to join me for the inside scoop. Please now help me give big smooches to my guests, Todd, and Peter. Hello, gentlemen, welcome to the show.

Unknown Speaker 11:09
Thank you so much.

Damona 11:11
Well, we need to we need to talk because a lot of my audience out here, they are relationship minded. Some of them are looking for marriage, some of them are just looking for commitment, but most of them are looking for something a little bit more than they’re in right now. First, I want to talk about in your book, not a partnership, you talk about the institution of marriage, right and looking at marriage, like a job.

Unknown Speaker 11:45
I like

Unknown Speaker 11:46
a good job,

Damona 11:48
a good job, a job that you want. But, you know, in a way people, people are always telling me marriage is so hard. It’s so much work. But I feel like it’s it’s it’s it’s work like this is work for me. Like I love doing it. And I love helping people. But what do you mean, when you say, marriage is like a job?

Unknown Speaker 12:06
You know, we first of all, when we talk about marriage, one of the things we try to do is to give a bit more of a depth and what marriage means than just kind of let’s call it the legal description. And the legal description is one which is you know, up for grabs. And it means different things to different people in different contexts in different countries. But what we what we’re talking about really, is a relationship that is driven by a commitment that I have towards making my spouse, the center of my concern, the center of my attention. And then I view my job, so to speak as a very elevated job. It’s not It’s not the job as a martyr, it’s an incredible job of helping give that person the life that they want and deserve. And when a person is committed to that for their spouse, and the spouse is committed back now, whether they are legally married, legally not married, living together, what I mean, it’s the dynamic is going to be same dynamic, if two people are committed to building and completing each other and giving the other the life that they want and deserve and need. That can create a an incredibly beautiful dynamic in their relationship. And that’s what we are trying to focus people on because we think that’s missing in lots of relationships. Hmm,

Damona 13:24
that’s certainly missing. And I find that a lot of people aren’t having the conversations early on about what they really want, and really, how they even define what the partnership looks like. Right? What do you think about that? Peter? When do you feel like the conversation should begin around partnership or the the goals for the relationship?

Unknown Speaker 13:51
So I would say like this, is that if you’re looking for someone that you want to have a significant relationship with, what you find is, it doesn’t have to be day one. But the sooner you see if you line up in more of a long term way, that does two things. It frees you up to allow yourself to actually get closer to this person. And you’ll see that down the line, you’re not going to run into major roadblocks when the relationship actually does get closer. What happens a lot of times, as we all know, is that people find this relationship and it goes great. But once serious issues start coming up about what is the long term look like? What do we want for you know, the future of our lives, all of a sudden, you have people that they realize, you know, we’re just not on the same page at all. And then it takes a lot of energy to now start over and you know, try and find that with someone else again, the world of dating can be very depleting and we feel there are lots of things out there that can be done to To make it much smoother for people in their journey to find either a great relationship, or ultimately, the one they want to spend the rest of their life with. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Damona 15:10
And that, that idea of, Oh, no, I have to go back to the pool, again, is something I hear from a lot, a lot, a lot of my listeners. And, you know, I feel like, if you aren’t in the right partnership, it’s worth the effort that you put in before, and it shouldn’t be that much effort. In The Now, like, I like going back to what I was saying, originally, to you, Todd. When people say relationships are a lot of work, I’m like, kind of, I feel like the wrong relationships can be a lot of work. Do you see that? Don’t tell me if I, maybe I’m wrong about that. Maybe I’m looking at that with one with just one lens. I feel free to disagree with me.

Unknown Speaker 16:05
You know, relationships, they can make you without work. But I don’t think that there’s anyone that stands, you know, at their wedding. And they say to themselves, you know, well, I’m looking forward to an okay, marriage. You know, no one, no one says I’m, you know, no one says, as a claim the cake, you know, with the spouse in the band is good. No one says, you know, oh, a mediocre is good for me. You know, I was okay with a BMI in high school, but I didn’t think that my wedding day. And, and we all know that in order to really have something in our life that things want to achieve a goal you want to go after, it’s going to take a lot of effort to get there in order to really make that excellent, that end product amazing. And so, you’re right, a person can be relationship, and Okay, you know, you just ride it out. But what you’ll see very fast is we live in a world today where things get old, very fast, and things lose their freshness very fast. And we all know, you know, we’re all guilty of this, that we drop our guard really fast as well, sometimes a bit too fast. You know, I can be a certain way in my public life. But unfortunately, I come in my private life a lot of times, you know, my behavior is not as good as it may be when I’m at work, or when I’m in front of my friends. And what I think it means when we say work is demonio 100%. Right? I don’t think it’s hard work. Because when you feel like always you when you’re with the right person, why wouldn’t you want to do that work. So it makes it beautiful. But I do realize that in order to make my marriage, let’s say my relationship get to where I want to get to, I know, if I work harder communication, I put effort in to making us have you know, romantic dates, I go out of my way to show different forms of respect to my spouse, I do things that maybe naturally when you feel like doing but I go out of my way to implement all these things that we see that you know, can bring greatness to certain relationships in your life. And I put them in my in my relationship, my marriage. So those proactive efforts are what we’re talking about as far as what we look at as work. And what we find is that relationships that are always trying to be better, trying to work harder, trying to actively get closer, when you’re going to see is that relationships end up bringing way more happiness to the people that are involved in it. And people that are in relationships, that is let them kind of let’s just let them go. And let’s see where they get to. Unfortunately, sometimes you’ll see that without a lot of effort to make it amazing. things naturally deteriorate, which is what we see in all places in life.

Damona 18:58
But what do you do in the instance where you’re committed to making your relationship work, and maybe your partner is not in the same place. And I hear this a lot as well, from people that are in partnerships, and they’re like, I’m trying, like, I’m working on my communication, I’m trying to show up for them, I’m trying to improve it, and they’re just, they’re just exhausted, they’re not paying attention. They don’t want to go to therapy. They don’t they don’t want to do the do the work, right. What then,

Unknown Speaker 19:32
look, you know, the reality is the sad reality is there are relationships which are dysfunctional. There are there are a certain percentage of relationships which are just simply dysfunctional, and one side might be the source of the dysfunctionality. And it could be that no matter what you do, you’re not going to be met with the response, the gratitude, the reception, the love the you know, the the trust that you need. It’s possible. But what we’ve seen are maybe I would answer it from two angles. One question is, you know, what makes a person love another person. And this is really this is sticking on your issue of the work. Okay? We ask our students all the time, and I and I, you know, I’ve had this conversation, many people, we talked about it in the book, you know, what is it that causes love? Do I love someone who gives to me? And because they give to me, and they’re good to me in a nice way to take care of me, therefore, I love them. Or do I love where I give? So again, if you pull it out of a romantic relationship, let’s take a child with a parent. Okay, so who loves who more a child? Or does a child of the parent more generally is parent the child more generally, most most people agree that the parents love the children way more than the children of parents. Why is that? I thought one second, but but the parent is doing all the giving, at least for certainly for many years, parents do it’s like a one way giving relationship.

Damona 20:58
I know, I have two of them.

Unknown Speaker 21:01
And so and why is it the parents love their children, and the more that gives them, the more they love them? And the answer is because the more you invest in yourself in the other, and you see yourself in the other, you see your effort in the other and you put yourself in the other, you expand yourself into into a way that creates love for the other. And, and in a relationship. You know, I once had a religion and we’d have tell us a story in the in the book about we were at 30,000 feet on a private plane, a few analysts and you know, you know, doing taking research around the country. And and one of the young analysts was complaining that his wife, you know, he just doesn’t love her anymore, because she just doesn’t do much for him anymore. They’ve been married a couple years. And I said to him, you’re missing the whole point of what causes love. I said, there’s an old rabbi who basically taught something which you don’t have to be religious to listen to. But you got to be interested in what what love is, I said, you know, if you would start giving to your wife, instead of waiting for her to give to you, if you start giving to her, doing things for her, putting her at the center of your concern, putting her into your calendar as something that, you know, making sure you’re calling her but when you said it’s not just a wife, it’s a it’s a lover, a wife, a friend, anybody, but particularly in a loving relationship, you know, if you would start giving to her, you will find that your love for her expands dramatically. And by the way, that will usually trigger something in the other. And and that and he, by the way, came back to me Two months later and said, our relationship has changed. He said, I decided I have nothing to lose by trying. And and I have found that I’ve like fallen back in love with my wife again. And we’re falling in love again. And it dovetails with one other piece of advice that we go into extensively in the book, which we think is maybe the most important chapter, which is that the chapter is called, it all depends on me. Most people think I’ll start getting started in fixing a relationship when my spouse shows me that they’re willing to do the work, or my kids, were saying spouse, but again, it matters in any relationship doesn’t have to be a married relationship. When the other person, my lover starts doing the work, then I’ll start doing the work. And what we found is quite the contrary. Most people if they examine themselves, realize and find out that they have one or two traits that need fixing, that always have a negative impact on the relationship. It’ll have a negative impact all over their life. By the way, if you have an anger problem, selfishness problem, it comes out everywhere. But nowhere will it come out as badly as in your relationship, especially after a little bit of time when you let your guard down. And if I realize I’ve got an anger problem, and it’s poisoning my relationship with my with my with my with my other, one of the most main things I can do is to start working on anger problem not forget about forget about the other person for a moment, just work on my own issue. And when and when that when that my partner comes in my partner, my wife, my husband, whoever it is, comes in and sees on my bedside table all these books about anger management, they see that I’m listening to a podcast and they see that I’m going to therapy, and I’m trying to fix the issue. It’s amazing what that can do to jumpstart a relationship where things have gone haywire up until now and the other side again, unless the other person is very dysfunctional, they may begin to and probably will begin to examine what I bring to the table here. What am I doing that maybe is not so good for relationships, and you can start a virtuous cycle, to really kickstart things again,

Damona 24:21
I often talk about the mindset piece as you’re looking for a partner, and how to how to get clarity on what you’re looking for, but also get clarity on what you’re bringing to the table. And that’s all part of the magical mindsets do of preparing yourself for the right relationship for you. So what you just said, I want to make sure everyone really hears it. And, and, and I see this also for singles in the Peep There are people that want to, they want to complain, they want to be frustrated. They want to be down on love, but then when ask them, What have you actually done to change the situation? It’s usually just complaining and commiserating. And swiping button, not having really the intention. And so that intention of wanting to change and wanting to do your best is really, really important. Now, I would love to, to turn the conversation of it around the, the whole institution of marriage, we’re seeing that people are marrying at lower rates, they’re waiting longer to get married. And I have always been pro marriage, I know I have a lot of a lot of LGBTQ listeners that didn’t always have the ability to get married, now are worried that they might not have the ability in the future. But let’s say that aside, I feel that my life is enhanced by by being married. And, and the funny thing is, I can’t even really identify where that idea of needing to be married or wanting to be married, came from versus like, I’ll just stay in this partnership. And as long as life is okay, we’ll continue on. And I hear also from a lot of people who are divorced, and especially people who are divorced multiple times, that they’re no longer interested in marriage again. So if you would, for me, maybe defend the Institute, institution of marriage, or, or celebrate the virtues of marriage, or tell me why that’s actually not as important in a partnership as maybe it was, back when I was 25.

Unknown Speaker 26:54
Look, you know, they’re the historical reasons that, you know, that, that in many societies, you know, sort of enhanced the need for marriage, you know, when when men were the only ones who could work and when women needed physical protection, and they couldn’t make a living, and there was no equality and things like that. A lot of those a lot of those reasons don’t mean anything to anybody anymore. What I think does retain the spark. And by the way, in the research and the most recent research that we’ve ever seen, the actual number of people who speak about marriage as something that is at the top of their priority list. Now, it may not be number one priority for everyone anymore. And it may be in a way that it might have been 3040 years ago, but but it seems to be in the top two or three priorities of what I want out of life. And marriage is frequently right at the top of that list. So the question is why now why not just kind of get together with somebody that I like, and and we’ll move in together, and we’ll have a good relationship, and we’ll take care of each other. It seems to be that, that what marriage does beyond any kind of legal definition is, is it it creates a sense of commitment, and exclusivity, where we’re where it’s you and me together, and we’re shutting everybody else out. And we’re totally committed to each other. And by the way, there’s a through thick and thin component that people think of in marriage, but not so much in let’s get together as long as it’s fun. You know, things, a lot of things happen, which you don’t think about when you meet that person across the room, and they’re really attractive and really healthy and really young, just like you are, you know, you think it’s going to stay like that. Well, guess what a lot of things happen in life. There’s financial setbacks, and there’s health setbacks, and there’s all kinds of things that happen. Well, what why don’t I stick around with you, if I haven’t really committed myself to you and a more meaningful way than just as long as you make me happy, satisfied, and are fun to be with, you know, beyond that, what, you know, if when a person goes that one step further than they say, I want to actually create a bond, which however, I think about it, when I think about as legally or religiously or spiritually, but I’m creating a bond that is through thick and thin. When I can come to trust the other person with my life, you know, we have acquaintances, we have friends, we have close friends, and then we’ve got this this realm of exclusivity, where we share where we are one, we literally become one person that’s bigger than the two of us as separate beings. That gives a level of intimacy, happiness, security, well being that that we just have not seen repeated in other areas. And it’s and it’s something to do with the commitment level. And it’s something to do with the intimacy and the privacy of that relationship, which is, you know, you can use the word sacred. You can use the word spiritual, you can use the word you know, you know, just beyond it’s just increasing. It’s a oneness, it’s a different level. And that seems to be something that rings and people at a very deep level.

Unknown Speaker 30:08
And then

Damona 30:10
when we’re talking about, sorry, just gonna pop up when we’re talking about marriage in the current function of society, and now that people can, you can have a child, you don’t have to be married, you can buy property. I mean, not even that long ago, a woman couldn’t even take out a loan in her own name. Now, we don’t we don’t need you fellas for that we can get our own loans. And I’m I am still seeing though people that are that will move into a partnership and even buy property with someone, but then not necessarily have have the plan for marriage or may specifically want to push marriage away. They don’t even like the idea of marriage from just from a, I guess a security standpoint, do you feel like there’s still value in the institution of marriage? Or did that go away when you know, women started cashing our own checks?

Unknown Speaker 31:20
I mean, you see, so many fastening we just said, Is it even now that you know that, that thank God, women have all these rights, which are just normal and healthy, that the fact that you still see a desire for that relationship? And something called marriage shows you how much of a part of us it actually really is. And you know, I think that what happens a lot of times is that you see that couples will go really far they’ll you know, they will buy that property together, they’ll move in together, they’ll do all these things. The question is what happens as far as making that final commitment, what holds them back, if they’re basically functioning as a married couple, what now holds them back from actually doing this thing called marriage. And what happens and what we’ve seen a lot, and I’ve seen this, just across the board through different things I’ve read with people we’ve worked with is that commitments are really difficult. And you know, one of the one of the things if you look at the word, you know, when you look at the word decide, it’s the same word as homicide, when you make a decision, you kill other options, or pesticide. And what’s scary a lot of times in life is that when you make certain decisions, you go for it, you’re now saying this is it, and nothing else. And we live in a world today where there are so many options. And you can be in so many different places. And you can be in so many different kinds of relationships. And through the world of social media, you’re seeing so many other life choices. Making that final commitment is a scary thing for people. And I think that’s where people kind of get stuck a little bit. Because as long as I don’t say that word marriage, as long as we don’t go to the courthouse, as long as we don’t have that religious event, I’m still there’s still an option of if this doesn’t go a certain way I can run. But if you already see a couple going that far, where they’re doing everything but marriage. So you know, the question to ask them is that? What would really change? Other than now they’d have a certificate on their wall? Or do they change if they actually did go to that courthouse, technically speaking, not much, but emotionally speaking a lot. And where I think that a lot actually is, is to go the distance and really shut yourself off from the rest of the world and say, I’m putting my entire life into this person is a difficult thing for people to do.

Damona 34:04
Mm hmm. Yeah. And it’s also it’s not even just difficult. It’s also a, it can be scary because there are there are potential consequences. Like I talked to a lot of successful women, who they have a good credit score, they are making good money and they’re like, if I marry this person, then suddenly now I am legally bonded, I am now responsible for his finances. And his credit score becomes my credit score. For those who don’t know, those are those are facts, and you take on his debt, and that is really, that is really a tough pill for a lot of women to swallow.

Unknown Speaker 34:50
Right? And the truth is, it becomes a question of prioritization in some sense, because if I know that she won’t go the distance with me and commit to me, because she’s afraid I’m going to bring her credit score down. How much will I can I just shoot? Well, I really give her my full trust. Because in the back of my mind, I always think, you know, there’s part of this, that’s just really, she’s just worried about me being a financial drain, she’s worried about this. And there’s the, again, whether you call it marriage, or whether you don’t call it marriage, or whether it’s legal or not legal, what creates the the level of intimacy and security, which on a long term basis, we’ve seen can lead to incredible happiness and well being. And by the way, and romance and, you know, good physical relationship and everything else, that a lot of that has to do with the fact that I say I am, I am yours, and you are mine. And we’re building something bigger than ourselves, and we’re in it through thick, and again, it’s that thick and thin component of it, which if it’s not there, and each side has always gotten the back of their head, I can get out of this, and if my credit score is going to suffer, or if or if they’re not, you know, or if a little illness is going to come in, or a little financial setback is going to come in or if you know, I just don’t, you know, they just they’re not as interesting anymore, or whatever it is there, you just can’t get the same level of conductivity. As long as that, you know, that sort of exit door is still always swinging in the background. That’s so it’s a question of what you want, it’s a question of what you really want.

Damona 36:30
But this idea of the Paradox of Choice, and that if you have the exit strategy, you might want to take it, and that doesn’t necessarily give you the most, the greatest opportunity for growth in the relationship is really profound. Before we go, I also want to get into your four pillars of giving. Because, you know, this is an element of the book of not a partnership, which of course, we’ll link to in the show notes. But I think this is really, this is good life advice, as well as good partnership advice, can you leave us with with those four pillars to take the next next phase,

Unknown Speaker 37:10
maybe period, I’ll take the first to keep it fresh and gratitude. And I’ll take that, and I’ll take the last year.

Unknown Speaker 37:15
So just just so you know that the four pillars are really, you know, if we had to define what the PDF manual is, and how to build a relationship, okay, it’s very simple. And that is the world of giving. And what we have seen is that the ultimate formula of how your relationship is going to go from good to great is by people giving. So what we designed, is we took in the back of our book, and really the whole second half of it, is we have four pillars of giving and we broke up different ways of how to see giving. Okay, so the first two pillars are pillar number one, is the idea of people working hard to keep their marriage fresh. Okay, for example, when I first started dating my wife, okay, I made a real effort to look good to, you know, smell a certain way to her with my words, to buy gifts to, you know, really make sure that I you know, I carried myself a certain way privately when we were alone together. And after birth time, you know, you’ve been together for a period of time and feeling a bit tired, and that energy is no longer there. One of the ways I can give to my spouse or anyone gives me the relationships, you know what, I’m going to make that same effort that I once made. And what you’ll find is that when you make that effort, so that brings a certain freshness to the relationship, no matter how long you’ve been in the relationship. During number two, is the world of gratitude. And unfortunately, what happens is, we are, we are doomed by something called expectations. And if you look in the world, especially in my background for the positive psychology, that if you’re looking to make something really rich in life, as far as any relationship, fill it with gratitude, and you will see an exponential change. And what happens a lot of times in life is places where we have high expectations. So our gratitude is actually quite low. Okay, in my relationship, so what happens is, I expect all these things for my spouse. So once she goes way beyond it, okay, I’m gonna express my gratitude. And once she drops one little ounce below it, I’m a frustrated guy. But you go to Starbucks and you walk out of Starbucks and you just, you know, purchased a $15 frappuccino, and you leave your credit card, and some you know, and someone runs up to you and says, excuse me, No, ma’am, sir. You left your credit card. You’re like, Oh my gosh, you know, greatest person in the world. You take a selfie, send a Christmas card. You tell everyone over the weekend, what happened like this person is is God’s gift to the world, he saved your life. And there are no expectations, all of a sudden, something happens, my gratitude levels are awesome. And where your gratitude levels should be the highest of those people that are doing the most for you to give you the life that you want, is there any place in your life that someone is doing as much for you than in your relationship, if there’s any place where gratitude should be absolutely flowing, is that is in your relationship, and people who go out of their way to proactively do that their relationships are drastically different. So that’s the, that’s a little bit of a summary of the first two pillars.

Damona 40:45
And before Thank you so much, Peter, before we move on to the last two pillars, I just want to add on about gratitude. Because I also do this with singles and I have people practice gratitude in their daily life now. Because if you are going into a relationship from a place of needing or not having rather than feeling the fullness of your life as is and the things that you have, that you are grateful for, if if you are going in from that place of not having you cannot attract as much abundance in my experience, so thank you for reminding us that we need to continue to practice gratitude. All right, take us home, Todd.

Unknown Speaker 41:28
The third pillar we call respect in all its forms, and one of the one of the deep mystical teachings is that as much as people feel that love comes first and drives the relationship, what what is what can be really more fundamental, and which ultimately drives love, is the way I show respect to my other. and respect comes in many forms. You know, there are people who will, let’s say, Be extravagant in the way they spend on their on their loved one. But on the other hand, they don’t speak to the person nicely, they’re a little bit insulting, they’re a little bit degrading, they’re a little bit coarse. And so on the one hand, you’re one second, I’ve given you everything you need, haven’t I given you, you know, all that you want all you’ve asked for? Well, yeah, but you haven’t treated me like someone who you actually care about respect. And there are people by the way, flip it around, there are people who sort of I recognize that, wow, this is a, this is a real soul I’m dealing with. And so I want to always speak respectfully and kindly and be nice. On the other hand, I forget about the person’s physical needs. And so I stopped spending. So so so so a healthy, full board respect is, I care about the way speak to you, I care about the way I speak about you, I show you respect when you’re speaking to me that I actually pay attention to listen to you, and I’m not on my phone. And I’m not looking, I’m not answering I’m not answering text at the same time, you’re trying to tell me about your day. And I’m also willing to, to give of myself financially, physically time energy, so that that total, that total experience that you can receive or give, which is all about how you treat the other, that sort of thing both increases the way that you’ll love the other again, for reasons we said before the love where you give, and it certainly will make the other feel tremendously respected by you. And that will drive the others love for you as well. So that’s the that’s the idea of respect. And we go through the litmus test you can take to see if you’re actually scoring well on that, and, and a lot of tips on how to get back there.

Damona 43:43
I hope cardi B takes that test. That’s all I’m saying. All right. And number four,

Unknown Speaker 43:49
number four, number four is, is is that we call it It all depends on me. And and it’s again, the idea that if something is failing in my relationship, don’t do what people always do and look at the other and say you’re messing things up, start with what can I do to kickstart this relationship? What can I fix in myself? What can I improve on myself without respect to the other, but it will have a benefit and spillover and probably the most direct benefit to the other. By the way, again, if I correct my anger problem, or my selfishness problem, or that I talked too much or or that I’m too closed, or whatever the problem is, if the greatest recipient of the gift of my working through my issue is going to be the one that I love, it’s going to be that person I’m in an intimate relationship with. And again, that we have seen we have seen in relationships that were on the rocks, and and both sides were pointing fingers and blaming each other. And we sat down usually if we had the opportunity to sit down with each side separately, sometimes we only knew one side. And we would say look, just stop focusing on what your partner isn’t doing. Focus on what you’re doing and how you Do it better, and see if things improve. And we have seen 90% of the time things not only improve, but they, they just rocket ahead. And they cause all kinds of improvements on the other side as well. And then you get this virtuous cycle of each trying to be better in the relationship with with the with, with all the benefits that accrue to the other side and then back to themselves. It’s a beautiful, it’s a beautiful cycle that you can kickstart about. Thank

Damona 45:25
you. This has been a beautiful conversation. I feel really inspired. As someone who is married has been married a long time, and does a lot of things that you’re talking about, I still learned a few more things that I’m going to be implementing in my home and my relationship and taking care of my side is straight, because it all depends on me. Thank you so much for being here. Gentlemen, I hope everyone will check out your book, not a partnership. We’ll put the link in the show notes. In the meantime, I wanted to wish you happy Hanukkah, and happy new year. And hopefully this will get people to be in the right place as we move into end of the year beginning to examine the year that we’ve had and where we want to be in the future. So thank you so much. Thank you

Unknown Speaker 46:14
so much, so much. Great to be here.

Damona 46:16
This has been Episode 339 of dates and maids. I would love to connect with you. I’m at damona Hoffman on all of the socials. I love your DMS, those of you who have DM me, you know, I usually respond with actually a voice memo. I love to hear your voice. You can voice memo me on Instagram and I will voice memo you back, give you some insight and then maybe even use your question on a future episode of the show. So don’t be shy. I love to hear from you. I’m at damona Hoffman on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. Speaking of loving to hear from you. I also love connecting with you and I have a group Do you know about the inner circle my patreon Friends with Benefits group, you can join for just five bucks and that supports this show. And it gives you access to my exclusive Facebook Lives where I talk about the behind the scenes insights from this show and also give you insights on whatever it is that you’re dealing with. We do a live q&a. Every week. We have tons of other resources. We have webinars and video clips and library content from dates and mates. And I want you to join me and get in the club you can join that@patreon.com slash dates and mates and honey it’s only five bucks. So set aside a little for yourself this year. And come and join the club is I will now step away to light the candles of Hanukkah. I hope I have lit the candles of love and marriage and long term partnership within you. So I hope you continue along your journey wherever you are. We’ll be here for another two weeks in December. But I wanted to let you know we are moving to Tuesdays in January. So if you’re not subscribed to the show, make sure you’re subscribed so that you don’t miss an episode. I’ll remind you again next week. Speaking of next week, I have an awesome interview with the cutest couple. Honestly, they’re so cute. They live in Atlanta and they found love in the middle of a pandemic on Bumble and they’re going to share their story with us on dates and mates. I hope you find it as inspirational as I do. Until next week. I wish you happy dating

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Relationship Anarchy & Matrimony Inc

DATING THROUGH THE AGES

It’s been a very tumultuous week, month, year…you get the picture.

But the Dates & Mates train has to keep on trucking because people still need help in love.

So today, we thought it’d be a welcome departure to hear some love stories from a more romantic era with Francesca Beauman, historian and author.

Francesca has gone through hundreds of years of personals ads from people looking for marriage and she’s compiled them all into the delightful new book, Matrimony, Inc.

But first, let’s dish:

DATING DISH 

Rules for Dating in Second Lock Down

A second lockdown is coming, so it’s time to define the relationship now. Damona explains why.

Relationship Anarchy

Relationship Anarchy – the latest movement shaping the future of love. Damona weighs in.

Photos Men Should Not Put On a Dating Profile

Photos mentioned: bad selfies, gym mirror selfies, and photos at the Women’s March. Damon explains why.

THE HISTORY OF LOVE

Damona and Francesca explore how the search for love throughout history has built the foundation for dating today.

Check of Francesca’s new book Matrimony, Inc: From Personal Ads to Swiping Right, a Story of American Looking for Love

FOLLOW ALONG HERE!

Damona  0:10  

Hello, lovers, we are recording this on what I think is day four of the election saga. And it’s been a tumultuous day already. Well, a tumultuous week, actually month. Well, let’s be real year, you get the picture. But the dates made strain it has to keep on trucking because people still need help and love. And I’m reading the room y’all. The other day when I finished my coaching call for my my women’s group program, I realized there’s a lot of anxious energy not just in dating, but overall. So today, I thought it’d be a welcome departure. To hear some love stories from a more Romantic era with Francesca Bowman, historian and author. Get this Francesca has found personal ads from various newspapers over the last couple hundred years that were written by people looking for marriage, and she’s compiled them all into the delightful new book, matrimony Inc. So today we’re going to explore how the search for love throughout history has built the foundation for dating today. And I’m so excited for y’all to hear this interview. And to have a little fun with us and a little levity. and bask in the fantasy with me and Francesca. But first as always, we have headlines. Lock your relationships down now because a second lockdown is on the horizon. Hmm. And relationship anarchy, the latest movement shaping the future of love, plus, the photos you should put on your dating profile today. Now that sir, just watched the Borah, subsequent movie feel so funny. I had to call that one back. All right, why don’t we get on with it. And let’s dish

 

Unknown Speaker  2:20  

these dating dish.

 

Damona  2:22  

bustle reported the new rules for dating in a second lockdown. So I know we have people from all over the US, from Canada from the UK. And I just found out that our friends in the UK as of today, the day that we’re recording this, they are facing a second lockdown and the writing is on the wall, folks, it ain’t going so hot in many other places. So there’s a really good chance that lockdown can be coming your way again. So number one, get your routes taken care of. That’s what I’ll be doing. Get my getting my little haircut done, getting my roots done. Get yourself put together because we could be in this for a while. That aside, okay, do what you want. If you if you if you don’t, if you don’t feel like doing all that and getting yourself gussied up, that’s fine. But you should know how it’s going to affect dating in the future. Because remember, this anxiety that I was talking about at the beginning of the show? Well, that is increasing as we are approaching cuffing season. And the options for virtual for for social distance dates are are going to be dwindling. So I suggest let’s get comfortable. Again, with the virtual zoom, zoom video chat dates. Maybe you could have an activity, watch a movie together. But over video chat, figure out some ways that you can still connect and feel together even if you have to do it apart. And maybe you should be thinking at this point about a support bubble. I think none of us could really have anticipated what was coming back in the spring. And it’s a wise idea for you to broaden out your social circle this may be with a partner. This may be also with a a f buddy. Maybe he didn’t you didn’t cough yet. But look, we still have needs. So maybe you have an agreement with somebody that’s in your circles so you can still get your needs met. During the winter months. The UK Government says sleep overs aren’t allowed. And so this is something that we’re going to have to learn how to work around so it’s decision time for some of you. And for others. It may be at time for expansion in figuring out how to date in a new way.

 

There was a super interesting article in self this week about relationship anarchy. I had never heard of this phrase before but Basically what it means is putting less emphasis on titles of different people in your life like partner, sibling, parent friend, and also putting less emphasis on your relationship significance. And I would say, relationship anarchy, it sounds kind of dramatic. And believe me, there was a lot of there’s high drama in this article. But I really love at the core, the message that it’s giving us, like they cited that you’re expected to prioritize ties your mother, just because she’s your mother, or your romantic partner, you are supposed to live with them, because they’re your romantic partner. But what if, what if it looked different? You know, we’re just talking about bubbles? What if you live with your platonic partner, but your romantic partner is someone that you see now more like, the way in the frequency that you see a friend. And I’ve been actually talking about something similar to this for a while, in not making your partner the center of your world, I think that’s really dangerous. When you’re expecting your partner to deliver everything to you, they’re supposed to be your confidant, your activity partner, your romantic partner, your co housekeeper. And that puts a lot of pressure on one person to fulfill all your needs. So I’ve always said make sure you keep investing in the other relationships. And I remember, situations with friends that would always get sucked into that black hole of relationships, I think you know what I’m talking about. And then they, they forget all of the other friendships, they give everything to that partner. And then when a breakup comes here, they come crawling back, like you’re my best friend, again. And I think there there is something to be said for relationship anarchy and the points that this person makes in this article that it’s a reminder, you can choose how much time you give to people, you can choose the focus that you give to people, obviously, you want to be on the same page with your romantic partner. So they feel they’re getting their needs met, as well. But let’s not, especially in a time like this, let’s not minimize your relationships with your friends and your family. And in the article, they’re talking about maybe getting rid of labels altogether. I don’t know if you want to go that far with it. But I think it’s ripe. I think it’s the right time for you to maybe re examine how much focus you put on finding that romantic partner, and the rule that you’re looking for them to fill in your life and take stock of what you already have and the people you already have that are bringing you love right now. Inside hook told us how to find love with the right dating profile. If you’re a guy, and what you should be putting in your dating profile. I thought this was a

 

Unknown Speaker  8:07  

What did I think?

 

Unknown Speaker  8:10  

I’m gonna take that back.

 

Damona  8:14  

Inside hook shared the photos that men should never put in a dating profile. A lot of these were standard and a lot of these I’ve said for a long time I have them in my book like hello no excessive group pics, I would say actually no group pics, I always say you have to be the star of your profile. We don’t want anyone else distracting the focus from you. Because I know like when I’m swiping for clients, I’m looking at you and your friends and I can’t tell which one you are and what if your friend is more attractive than you are, then you don’t want to set yourself up for that. You don’t want to have somebodies Phantom arm strangely cropped out of your photo. I see this a lot the Phantom hair, I can still tell and I’m still making determinations. Like if I see random blonde hair hanging over your shoulder, and my client is brunette. I’m thinking well, maybe this is not a fit and you just don’t want to place that. That moment of questioning in someone’s mind when they’re going through making split second decisions. Most women it takes seven seconds for them to make a decision about a profile for men it’s only five or less. So you really have to lead with that your best foot forward on your dating profile if you’re wanting to make a connection. Some other things to avoid according to inside hook. They said selfies I really want to know what you all think of this. I have come around to selfies being a normal and acceptable part of a dating profile. But they were saying bad selfies are almost less bad. Then good selfies because good selfies can be deceitfully flattering. But I mean, we’re in the middle of a pandemic, who’s running around with like a photo shoot a photographer following them around taking their dating profile photos. That surprised me. I’m still in favor of the selfies, just make sure that they’re taken with good lighting at the appropriate angle. And not in the bed. According to this article. No bed selfies. That’s not something I see a lot. Maybe Maybe you’re on different apps than my clients. But I’m not seeing too many bed selfies, but definitely no gym, mirror selfies. This is rampant, rampant issue in dating profiles, the gym mirror selfies while we’re at it, just no mirror selfies and also this is really interesting. They said no shirtless pics. dating.com did a little study on this and said that straight men who included shirtless photos of themselves and their dating profiles tended to perform far worse on online dating platforms and got 25% fewer matches than their fully clothed counterparts. We like the ABS just let us work for them a little bit more and leave something to the imagination. All right, that’s the headlines for this week. In a moment we will be back with author Francesca Bowman and a deep dive into the history of dating profiles and what you can learn from them today. We are back and I am here with someone who has one of the most interesting buy lines I have ever read. Francesca Bowman is a former TV host historian and part time bookseller. She is also the author of six books including a history of the pineapple and a history of British personal ads. Francesca Bowman’s latest deep dive into history is matrimony Inc. From personal ads to swiping right, a story of America looking for love. I’m so excited to introduce her here on dates and mates to you please help me give big smooches to Francesca Bowman,

 

Unknown Speaker  12:12  

thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here. I am so

 

Damona  12:16  

excited about this book. matrimony Inc. Because Well, I mean, I’ll just say the subtitle from personal ads to swiping right a story of America looking for love. It’s so resonated for me as someone who found love online and now on the show coaches, so many people to be able to use the tools of dating apps to find love. The parallels were obviously glaringly obvious.

 

Unknown Speaker  12:43  

parallels. Yeah,

 

Damona  12:44  

I just want to begin, first of all, where I know you’re a book person, where did you get the idea? From?

 

Unknown Speaker  12:53  

I have always been interested in personal ads, right? I’ve always kind of read them, you know, years ago, when they’d be in the back of the newspaper or magazines. I’d always trawl through them. Because there is something so amazing about these kind of tiny little detective stories, right? Just a few hundred words. And there’s somebody whose whole life in some ways, you know, they’re in the newspaper, I can remember some of my favorites like, woman who likes pastor seats, man who likes source, you know, these very, like, concise, cute little personal ads. And then one day on a whim, I started looking into them, and I found they dated back much, much further than anybody ever knew. And after just like a few weeks trawling through old American newspapers, I found America’s earliest personal ads, which no one knew existed, no one knew how far back it goes. But I found America’s first ever personal ad, which was from the Boston Evening Post in 1759. So really, a long time ago. And once I found that I realized that there was an amazing story to be told here, right? Because all these personal ads, then, you know, became computer dating, and then obviously, dating websites, and now dating apps. They give you so much evidence over 250 years about the history of our emotions, our desires, and most importantly, the history of mate choice, right? What men look for in a woman women and women look for in a man and how that’s changed. Well, or I’m afraid often not change over the past 250 years.

 

Unknown Speaker  14:20  

Okay,

 

Damona  14:21  

I you have said so much. And I’ve just like, I don’t even know where to begin with. So many so many questions. First of all, 1759. What does an ad from that era look like?

 

Unknown Speaker  14:35  

Right, great question. So I spent weeks and months trawling through old newspapers, in libraries basements of libraries all over America. And the Boston Evening Post was one of America’s earliest newspapers. And then one day, there it is, like on the front page of the newspaper, and it was Yeah, February the 23rd 1759. And what’s amazing is it gives you such an insight into what I do. guy in Boston looked for in a woman then right. So this is what he was looking for any young lady between the age of 18 and 23, have a middling stature, brown hair, regular features, and with a lively, brisk guy have good morals. So that’s like, the starting point, he then goes on to say, must be possessed of three or 400 pounds entirely at her disposal. So there’s all kinds of interesting things in that, like, wait, he’s looking for women between 18 and 23. So, you know, really young by all standards today, but at the time, the average age for a woman to marry was 22 and a half. So between 18 and 23, but he’s trying to catch him young, Captain young and fertile at the time, young and fertile, I’m afraid. I love the way he says of middling stature and brown hair, like what does he have against blondes back there in 1759, he’s very specific that he wants a woman with brown hair, regular features, good morals, of course, very important to be respectful at the time, and then three or 400 pounds. And so if you take that all together, basically what this Boston gentleman is looking for is a woman who is young, respectable and rich.

 

Unknown Speaker  16:11  

That’s what anyone would want of climbing.

 

Unknown Speaker  16:13  

Certainly there is some consistency in terms of what people look for.

 

Damona  16:19  

So based on what I hear now, from people who are tentative about dating apps and online dating, why would a guy in that era turned to a newspaper to find his match.

 

Unknown Speaker  16:36  

So for almost exactly the same reasons, as people do today, and we can see that in the evidence, when you start getting hundreds of thousands of personal ads, again, that no one really knew exists until I researched them. They really took off in Philadelphia in 1840s. And in those ads, lots of the men are very specific about why they’re placing these ads, right. And it basically comes down to, they’re new in town, they work long hours, they don’t have time to meet people. Sometimes it’s because they’re kind of shy, you know, sound familiar? Like it’s all the same reasons as people do today, really. And why it happens is with urbanization and industrialization, right. So once these cities grew, once the population of Boston hit 20,000, New York, 30,000, Philadelphia 50,000, you can’t any longer rely on like your mum to match you are or you know, your church to match you up or your friend or your neighbor next door to match you up, which is how it would have been done in the olden days. If you’re moving to the big city, you’re getting a new job as people were in the 18th century, you’ve got to kind of turn to some new forms of matchmaking. And so, you know, because people were kind of tentative about this, they will explain in their ads that like, they’ll say, Oh, I’m a stranger in the city, or one guy says, He talks about himself in the third person, he says, have a rather bashful retiring disposition, which has hitherto prevented him from mixing much in female company. So we shy fair enough. Another guy says,

 

Damona  18:10  

I’m wordsmith too. So I mean, they all match that one up.

 

Unknown Speaker  18:15  

Exactly. They all are such wordsmith. And that’s, you know, what’s so wonderful about many of these ads. And now the guy says, I’m being closely confined by his business, he cannot devote the time necessary to a protracted courtship, He therefore avail himself of the medium of a publication to express his wishes. So that guy’s just in a hurry, like, works really long hours, and he’s in a hurry. So we you know what, one of my favorite things about researching this was, was how relatable or these people are, you know, though they’re advertising for a lot of the same reasons that people are today, right? work really long hours, who has time to meet people, maybe they’ve moved to like a different part of the country. So they’re far away from like, that college friends or whatever, or you know, their mom or so it’s really the same reasons as today.

 

Damona  19:01  

Well, and our listeners have heard me say before that online dating now is the predominant way that people are meeting more than all the other methods you mentioned through friends through family through church. Yeah, and, and even though some people aren’t ready to embrace it, I feel like the the the interpretation of dating apps, the the reputation of dating apps has shifted a little bit. But even just going back I’ve also talked about on the show before how even a few generations ago most people met and married someone who lived in their own hometown, they lived within five miles of their house according to two records even back in the 1940s and the 1920s. So you’re going even further back, there must have been some sort of some sort of a feeling in the 1840s. If you had to go to a newspaper To find love, did that have a stigma around

 

Unknown Speaker  20:03  

it? You know, not as much as you might think when it first started, I mean, some other advertisers Do you know, you say things like, oh, secrecy assured or no trifle as need apply, you know, to show that they were serious and genuine about this, but like you say, um, there was a real a need for it. And it in some ways became a public service, you know, like a postal system, right? Because if you couldn’t just marry the girl next door, or, you know, the boy you went to school with, and people couldn’t, not just because of urbanization, but increasingly in the 19th century. And with the settling of the West, right, in some parts of the American West, there was such a gender disparity there. There was you know, like an Iowa there was three men for every one woman in California during the Gold Rush, there were 250 men for every one woman right. And so then, right, then it’s just a question of need. And and therefore, it’s a result that isn’t necessarily the stigma surrounding it that you that you might think when the stigma emerged really was after the peak of personal ads of advertising for love in the 1860s 1870s, when there were so many hundreds and thousands of these personal ads in every state in the nation, every local newspaper from Kansas to Wisconsin, why Wyoming North Dakota, every local newspaper had personal ads saying wife wanted or husband wanted, do the 1870s 1880s when the stigma came was actually around the turn of that century, around 1900 1910 when there was a huge crime wave that was reported around the person ads, it’s not necessarily that it was the first Crime Wave, but the first crime wave that was reported with the rise of newspapers and newspapers who like to scandal, right, so they didn’t report they didn’t report stories of people who met through a personal ad and lived happily ever after. Because that’s not interesting to anybody. Right? They were they sadly reported stories of you know, when there was like a crime like fraud or bigamy or even murder and there were a lot of those, you know, particularly in the New York Times around 1900 9010 and that’s what really gave advertising for love. It’s kind of bad rap for a long time. It meant people thought it was like scary or worrying or you know, that it would it would cause problems and it was dangerous and that was a kind of early 20th century thing really so it came in actually the stigma surrounding it emerged much later than you might think. Huh

 

Damona  22:27  

See that’s so resonates i i’m i’m always saying that we hear these stories because they’re rare or because like you said they make a good salacious story they sell newspapers they sat gets you to watch the television show

 

Unknown Speaker  22:42  

exactly not

 

Damona  22:43  

you don’t hear the the mundane stories because

 

Unknown Speaker  22:46  

they’re not as they’re not they’re

 

Unknown Speaker  22:48  

not as entertaining. It’s not as entertaining to people if they’re like, Oh, yeah, we met we met we fell in love When we lived happily ever after. And everyone’s like, oh, boring, you know, they want to hear their like salacious, scandalous stories, you don’t hear the kind of stable, happy, delightful loving stories, right? Because that, you know, human nature doesn’t sadly respond to those in the same way.

 

Damona  23:09  

That you you have some positive stories in in your books,

 

Unknown Speaker  23:13  

and many

 

Damona  23:14  

of them on your Instagram. So tell us tell me some of the good stories because we do we love a good rom com as well. There must have been some positive.

 

Unknown Speaker  23:23  

There was so many positive stories, hundreds and hundreds of them and and you know, many of your listeners will probably have grandparents or great grandparents who met through a personal ad. They maybe just don’t know about it. But people you know, would write to me and say oh, my great grandmother met her husband through a Perseids. So for example, one of my favorite stories is about a woman named Augusto Lawson, who was a Swedish immigrant. And in 1892, she answered a personal ad that had been placed in a Chicago based newspaper where she lives. It was from a guy called all roods, who was from Norway originally and had settled in Washington state where he farmed the land they were he was really a pioneer that there were hardly any women and to speak to your point of why do people advertise, like, what else was he supposed to do? Right, there are hardly any women around. So it was really smart and sensible to put an ad in a newspaper. You know, in one of the big cities. agasa Lawson saw this this personal ad, they wrote to each other for a few months. And then she amazingly decided that her best bet was to travel 2000 miles to go meet him. So she got the, you know, she got the train and then she got the coach and then she turned up in this tiny town in Washington State, but they met and they married and they had kids and they farmed the land, you know, places like Washington state would not exist without these kind of pioneers, right. You need them to, you know, build families and to build a nation and in that way personal ads all forms of advertising for level release. central to the, to the founding of America in that way, because without them, these couples, you know, wouldn’t have met. So that’s one of my favorite stories because it really speaks to, you know, the history of modern America in so many ways.

 

Damona  25:13  

I love that I’m always telling my children, I’m like 100 years ago, y’all would be here to just tell the field. Like, right, take your dish to the sink, so you don’t go out and shuck some corn or whatever.

 

Unknown Speaker  25:26  

Right? Exactly. So much is different. But then so much stays the same. And I mean, that also speaks to the number of women who advertised in newspapers, like in the 18th and 19th century, so, so many more women than you might think, put personal ads in newspapers, and you’ll see them in national newspapers, local newspapers, they have this headline that says husband wanted and kind of bold black type. And they really are amazing. Some are very different to what you might read, like on a Tinder profile today and someone kind of the same. So can I give you one of them?

 

Damona  26:01  

Oh, yes, yes. And then I want to talk about communication because you also got me thinking with the love letters, but I want to hear one more and then we can

 

Unknown Speaker  26:09  

Okay, so tell me if this is the kind of thing you might meet on a Tinder profile today. This was an ad placed by a woman is in Wisconsin in 1855. She talks about herself a little and then she describes what she she’s looking for in a guy. She says, I want to know brainless dandy or foppish full, but a practical man who can drive a coach or rock the cradle to the garden or attend the ballroom on the whole he must dress neat. Look well and keep his head up in society.

 

Damona  26:39  

That’s all I hear. Francesca they want a man’s man. Right? Don’t yet don’t don’t hate on don’t hate on what did she say? She says

 

Unknown Speaker  26:51  

no foppish? No. No brainless dandy or foppish fool.

 

Damona  26:59  

That’s funny. I it’s, it’s amazing to me how similars these some of these patterns are. But when you brought up the love story, and you mentioned how they wrote to each other, right for a while. That’s the part that I feel nostalgic for. And I feel like that’s the thing that’s changed, like people want to blame dating apps for the, for the dissolution of courtship. But I really think it’s more communication. And the way that we that we talk to one another, and the way that we build relationships, that has changed so much, even just in the last 10 years, so they would connect, and then they’d send letters back and forth, where they could really get to know one another. Right doesn’t just like, like, hey, Netflix and chill.

 

Unknown Speaker  27:47  

Right, exactly. And what it does is it builds a friendship, right from the very beginning, it builds a friendship through, there’s less writing, I would say, I mean, I’d be interested to know what you think about this, it does seem to me that that is one positive spin of the pandemic, right, is that because people are not able to meet up on a first date in the way that they used to, maybe they’re having to communicate in other ways, you know, on on zoom, or whatever it is, it creates more space to build a friendship in the same way you might have done if you were a seamstress in Iowa in 1870. And you were writing letters to a goldmine and California, back and forth and back and forth for weeks and months. If you build a relationship, you build a friendship before you actually meeting and I do wonder if if that’s to be optimistic about right now when dating and a pandemic obviously has so many challenges that what the one upside is it does give you space to build a friendship before anything else happens. And surely, that could be a wonderful thing.

 

Damona  28:51  

I really want people to hear and and process what you just said, because that is the opportunity that we have right now. And I think that’s where we were maybe three months ago. Unfortunately, what I’m seeing right now, and I’m not gonna call any of you out at this very moment, but I’m seeing actually there’s a little bit of panic setting in over cuffing season, like everybody’s trying to partner up before things get cold. And, and the fatigue, just the pandemic fatigue. being around people for so long, is causing people to do real really crazy things. And just like Well, you know what, it’s fine, we’ll just make out it’s fine. I’m sure it will be fine. And I have always said slow Love is the way to go. Just like you were saying. Taking the time to build that connection doesn’t mean that you have to be like writing letters across the miles. But just taking some time first to get to know each other before you build the intimacy and before you like rush into rivaling,

 

Unknown Speaker  29:52  

like to build a friendship to become friends because that’s what’s going to see you through the tough times as we all know it’s it’s it’s the friendship That means that relationships can then last 20 or 30 or 50 years. It’s the future that’s at the core of it. Well, and

 

Damona  30:07  

you’re happily married lady.

 

Unknown Speaker  30:08  

So I

 

Damona  30:09  

would take advice from you.

 

Unknown Speaker  30:12  

I mean, don’t take any advice from me.

 

Unknown Speaker  30:14  

How did you?

 

Damona  30:15  

How did you and your husband meet?

 

Unknown Speaker  30:16  

So we met, I used to be a TV host. Like 100 years ago, I used to be a TV host on British TV. And he was a TV director, and he directed a show that I was hosting. But it was the first one I’d ever done in a TV studio. And I was kind of a little bit vague about how microphones work. Like, I’m not an idiot, right? So when I talk about the director, I’d be like, oh, like, I really like him or three, see, if we’ll come up for a drink tonight, I would cover my microphone, I’m not a total idiot. But what I didn’t realize is that even then the microphone picks it up. So being this TV studio, you know, in between takes, like, with the makeup lady doing, you know, my makeup and suddenly doing my hair, and I’d be like chatting to my co hosts. And all of this would be broadcast into the entire like gallery that you know, the vision mixer and including my, you know, husband, to me, but you know, again, at least in you, I liked him from really early on.

 

Unknown Speaker  31:12  

I love that.

 

Unknown Speaker  31:13  

I love that. In a sense, you

 

Damona  31:15  

kind of made the first move or

 

Unknown Speaker  31:17  

you know, right? Yes, by mistake. I made the first move.

 

Damona  31:22  

But you let it be known how you feel because today I feel like so many people are like, I don’t want him No, I like him. I’m just gonna play cool. If she knew I was into her, she wouldn’t like me back and I’m just like, enough, enough of the of the pretense let’s just, let’s just be real. So right. By default,

 

Unknown Speaker  31:40  

your real when a guy really likes you, he really likes you. So you know, my, you know, my husband’s I mean, I think he was just busy. And I hadn’t occurred to him. And then we went out for drinks. And then like, oh, and then we had to keep it a secret for ages. Because like, you don’t want to be like, you know, having a thing with somebody at work. Right? Who does that unless it’s serious. So the first few weeks, we kind of kept it secret. And so I’d be like, in the makeup chair before the show, and he’d have to like come in and be like, how’s everyone this morning? Everyone? Okay, and I’d have to be like waiting. Yeah, exactly. Wait, wait. So we can’t do the secret until we knew it was, you know, pretty serious.

 

Damona  32:13  

And your husband works in Hollywood. Right. So

 

Unknown Speaker  32:15  

Kim? Tv director, yeah, yeah. So he started out working on Bora. And with Sacha Baron Cohen, which, of course, that’s very current at the moment. And then he went into movies, and he directed the Muppets movie, and LSU the looking glass with Johnny Depp. And don’t forget

 

Damona  32:34  

Dora. Actually, as a parent, I love Dora. I thought it was so. so charming. And I didn’t even realize that he he had directed it. And then when I saw you directed, I was like, of course, it

 

Unknown Speaker  32:46  

was so charming. And sweet and funny. And and he really makes movies in His own image, I think just charming and generous and kind and funny. Yes,

 

Damona  32:57  

yes. And so that’s interesting. Okay, so your husband will say his name is James bobbin. Right. That’s right. Yeah. He so working in Hollywood, I imagine that’s

 

Unknown Speaker  33:07  

kind of

 

Damona  33:09  

that impacts the relationship in some way. And my husband is also he’s a TV writer. I don’t I rarely talk about what he does. So my listeners might not

 

Unknown Speaker  33:18  

even know.

 

Unknown Speaker  33:22  

It was James wacky. And I’m like, I don’t really know, we didn’t talk about things like that.

 

Unknown Speaker  33:26  

Right. Exactly. Exactly. Like

 

Damona  33:28  

my husband wrote on the walking dead for three seasons, literally, maybe saw a few episodes. Like, why

 

Unknown Speaker  33:36  

not watching. But you

 

Damona  33:38  

know, it’s it’s interesting when you’re in a way, in living a relationship in the public eye. And, and I bring this up, because also, some of our listeners, even though they might not be able to relate to being in Hollywood, social media does add this element of playing out your relationship publicly. Do you feel like that’s, that’s ever been an element, you know, especially having been a TV host. And, and now, you know, moving into being an author and having your bookshop? Does does that? Do you think impact your your relationship in any way, the public element?

 

Unknown Speaker  34:17  

You know, I really don’t, to be honest, I really don’t. I mean, we’ve been together 20 years, we met when we were young. And so again, I think there’s such a friendship built on that that social media is something that we both do for work purposes. But it’s it’s social media, it’s very much a work thing for both of us. So it feels pretty separate to our kind of real life in inverted commas. I mean, obviously there’s exceptions to that. But I suppose particularly because what he does is is now pretty different to what I do and you know it kind of Hollywood dinner parties when I Samurai to people, of course, they all you know, what movies Did you write and when I say I’m a historian, people kind of think maybe I’m joking. And they’re not sure whether to kind of laugh or not. Because you know, it’s a it’s an unusual job in, in Hollywood, right? I get the same thing. When

 

Damona  35:09  

I say I’m a dating coach people are like, really like, a deep soul conversation, doesn’t it?

 

Unknown Speaker  35:18  

Yes, you can’t say it without without it becoming your whole thesis, I have to take a deep breath and go. And sometimes you find you lie, because you can’t remember to talk about it. Sometimes I want to be like, I’m an accountant. So that then like people don’t ask me about it. Because I know, you know, once the subject comes up, people will ask me about it.

 

Damona  35:34  

So what is the topic then when you’re at these Hollywood dinner parties? What’s the topic that all the movie stars want to discuss with you?

 

Unknown Speaker  35:40  

Okay, I’ll tell you what they all want to know, is, what do men look for in a woman? And what do women look for in a man? Because I, you know, I feel like I do have a unique insight into that, because I can put the historical perspective on it, right? So there’s all the kind of current data or research about mate choice, but I have a uniquely historical perspective of 250 years of what people have looked for and how that’s changed. What goods give us? Well, they’ll say, What do men look for? What do women look for? The trouble is the answer I have to give because it’s the truth is not as kind of depressing. So because much of my choice is predicated on evolution, there’s always going to be an element of it, right, which is men looking for, for women who are fertile. And women looking for men who can support offspring, I have resources, right. And now that is obviously a huge generalization. And as with every year goes by, there’s more and more exceptions to that, of course, and even the definition of that changes. So, you know, women looking for men with resources in the 18th century, that would have meant cash or property. But these days, it can mean a good sense of humor, or like a lot of Instagram followers, or like, you know, really clever, you know, designing websites or whatever it is, it just means, you know, be able to support offspring, if that if that comes to the relationship, and then the same, obviously, as women choose not to have children or to have children later, like obviously, you know, men looking for women who are fertile. That’s very, you know, reductive and a huge generalization. But looking at the evidence, because so much of it is about evolution. And that’s not going to change if one has to generalize. That’s the answer. And I wish it weren’t, I wish I could give you a different answer. I’m all I would emphasize is that, of course, there are so many exceptions to that in terms of ages and situations. And with each year that goes by you get more and more exceptions to thank goodness,

 

Damona  37:46  

I love hearing the historical perspective, because I think, you know, we are all a product of our history, right? And everything that we’ve learned from previous generations and everything that is biologically entrenched within our society. Exactly, no, ignore it, but we have to, I feel that we have to see it, and embrace it. But I think we are at an interesting time, Francesca because I think we are we are at this place. Where are ours? Our actions have sort of moved beyond our biology, our societies move beyond our biology. And we’re in this really weird dissonant period where everybody’s trying to figure it out. Right. And I guess that’s what keeps me doing this show for

 

Unknown Speaker  38:28  

eight seasons. But maybe you want to me is like how, you know how quickly we’re going to move beyond that entirely in that, like, why hasn’t marriage already died out? You know, we talked about, you know, people, you know, that marriage will have disappeared and don’t yet it it kind of seems to like cling on in this weird way. And so I’m actually I’m interested in, in a weird way, how slowly things are changing how slowly dating is changing how slowly it’s changing what people look for in relationships, you know, I would have thought that there might have been a more radical shift and in some strange ways, you know, humans do seem to be oddly kind of conservative with a small see sometimes about the way they form their their relationships. I I’m waiting for that to be a more radical shift. And I hope it I hope it happens but, but we’ll see. We will see

 

Damona  39:20  

Well, I appreciate everything you’ve shared with us. I think this book literally, it’s fascinating. Everybody run and check out matrimony ink, from personal ads, just swiping right a story of America looking for love so many more stories than even what Francesca was able to share. And don’t forget to follow her on Instagram at Franz bookshop, your you’re a gem and I’m so glad that you were able to join us on the show and share your insights.

 

Unknown Speaker  39:48  

Thank you so much for having me. It’s been really fun.

 

Damona  39:50  

We will of course put the link to this amazing book in the show notes. You can get it on Amazon matrimony, Inc. From personal ads, too. swiping right a story of America looking for love. By the way, I am super excited to announce something new demonios coI will be curating lists of my favorite love content and books of prior guests. My favorite love. I’ll be curating lists of my favorite resources on love. Everything from podcasts, to books, to videos that you can watch to books that prior guests let me receive free By the way, I am super excited to announce demonios content club. I think I need something else in there. By the way, I am super excited to announce something new de Mona’s content club.ntent club,  I will be curating lists of my favorite resources on love everything from podcasts, to videos to books from prior guests and you My friends, you can have access to all that juiciness. All you have to do is become one of my patreon friends with benefits for just five bucks a month. You can get in the club, you can come to my behind the mic weekly, live streams on Facebook, you can get tons of other resources and items for them from the dates and mates library. And you can get into demonios content club you can find all of that info@patreon.com slash dates and mates and again, it’s just five bucks. Five bucks support the show and get some more goodies for yourself patreon.com slash dates and mates. This episode is number 335 of this show on this episode is number 335 of dates and mates. I would love to hear from you. I am already taking audios and taking questions. I would love for us to connect on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram. Because I need to know what’s on your mind. I need to be answering your questions in love. And I am taking questions right now for our next dear demona episode. You can DM me a voice memo of your question you can you can message it to me You can even give me a call. Give me a call girlfriend 424-246-6255 leave it on my voicemail right there. And you could be on a future episode of dates and mates and get your love problems solved. So hit me up at damona Hoffman on all the socials. I will be back again next week with the fabulous Monique Kelly who’s going to talk all about how you can celebrate your singlehood but until next week, I wish you world peace and happy dating

Spouse Hunting & Singles in America

SPOUSE HUNTING FOR SINGLES IN AMERICA

🚨 NEW DATING APPROACH ALERT 🚨⁠

On this week’s episode of the Dates & Mates podcast, we’re joined by Brian Belefant, real estate agent and author, who explains how dating is exactly like house hunting according to his 99 rules of real estate.

Believe me when I tell you I LOVED this interview and can’t wait to see what y’all think 💗⁠


Here’s a rundown of today’s episode:

Dating Dish (2:25)

Reba McEntire is all about that social distance date

Reba’s officially on the market and has endorsed the social distance date after healing from a divorce with Narvel Blackstock. Wait… did you catch that name? You’re not going to believe the connection to Kelly Clarkson here.

via GIPHY

What is Emophilia? Is it contagious???

Do you fall in love fast and hard? You need to hear this.

via GIPHY

Match FINALLY releases they’re annual ‘Singles in America’ study

Damona reports on the latest:

  • A surprisingly high number of singles are having sex with a non-romantic roommate
  • Singles have new priorities what it comes to attraction
  • The decline of homogamy

via GIPHY

SPOUSE HUNTING (12:15)

Don’t forget to order your copy of Spouse Hunting: Using the Rules of Real Estate To Find the Love of Your Life

 

TECHNICALLY DATING (31:23)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • It seems like a lot of men are more lax about their standards right now and I struggle to find people who seem in line with me. Suggestions on how to figure out where I stand with people?
  • I need some social distance date inspiration! What are virtual or in-person activities that go beyond a picnic, hike, or staring at each other through screens? 

via GIPHY

 

WANT TO GO DEEPER? READ ALONG HERE:

Damona 0:09
you can keep waiting for the fairy tale. Or you can get on board with the new rules of relationships. If you’ve read my advice in the LA Times, then you know, this ain’t your mama’s love advice. This is dates and mates with damona Hoffman. Hello, lovers, I am so excited for today’s episode. It’s a really different kind of conversation today. And the idea actually began way back when I was online dating. You see, I used to tell my friends when I was trying to get them to see the benefits of online dating, I would say girls, it’s just like man shopping. It’s like having a catalogue of eligible bachelors. And I could just pick and choose the ones that I wanted. But the difference is, you don’t have to know if a shirt likes you back when you buy it. So my guest for today has flipped my perspective on this whole conversation and made me realize it’s much more like how shopping, then clothing shopping, because you do need that mutual match to make it work. And just think about the top qualities you look for in a mate. And then the things you look for in real estate, location, style, size. Hey, I’m talking about the house Get your mind out of the gutter. But first before we talk about the similarities between how shopping and mate shopping. I’m going to talk about today’s headlines including Reba McEntire is all about the social distance dating. And what is emo philia. And is it contagious? Plus, the moment we’ve all been waiting for. Well, at least the moment that I’ve been waiting for. Match finally releases its 2020s singles in America study and there are some goodies in here. Then at the end of the show, I will answer your questions including have daters today forgotten all their home training, and some social distance date inspiration. Those are the headlines today and the questions I’ll be answering and now it’s time for the dish. These dating dish.

Reba McEntire is on the dating market and she is doing the dang thing too. She just revealed that she has been dating actor Rex Lin, you might know him from young Sheldon. And they have been doing it social distance dating style. They actually had a face to face dinner date back when the world was a regular place in January or February. And since that time, she revealed that they’ve connected over text and video chat and phone and things are moving along. And I just thought this was a just super cute because isn’t Reba super cute. And B I also thought it was interesting that she talked about the difference in courtship and the way that taking her time and getting to know him slowly, even across distance allowed her to see the real benefits in him. And to get to know him on a deeper level. Even though they’re not together all of the time. They are still able to form that bond, and boy does Reba need it because she got divorced from narvel Blackstock. Is this a name that you know, because it sounded familiar to me when I read it because I realized I also read a story this week that narvel is suing Kelly Clarkson. Why not because he is her former father in law. Did you hear that Blackstock name we talked about Kelly a few weeks ago, but because he’s her former manager, I am seeing a pattern here. He helped Reebok to launch into stardom from country music to mainstream television shows. And the same for Kelly Clarkson. And now he’s common for her and saying she owes him millions of dollars, which made me wonder how did she get millions of dollars for hosting TV shows. As soon as I figure that out, and as soon as I’m able to give Kelly Clarkson some dating advice. I will report back but in the meantime, I think you can take a page out of rebbes book and use social distance dating as a way to really form a deeper bond and find somebody that’s maybe not so money hungry. emo philia you did you catch it? emo philia is the tendency to fall in love fast and often. So I don’t think it’s contagious. I didn’t mean to worry you. You can’t protect your With mask from getting it, but you can become aware if you have the tendency to what experts are calling emotional promiscuity. You, if you find yourself you succumb to others charms very quickly, or you’re likely to ignore relationship red flags, oh my goodness, this happens so much with my private clients, we’ll go through all of the red flags and the must haves. And then you meet someone and boom, you’re just emotionally attached to them. This is a little bit different from anxious attachment. Because if for those who read the book attached, which is a fantastic book, Dr. Amir Levine. He talks about the different styles of attachment anxious and avoidant, but the anxious attachment styles jump into relationships really quickly. But it’s not because of a reward motivation. It’s it’s motivated by inhibition or avoidance of a negative emotional state, especially specifically, specifically fear and anxiety. We’re all moving away from that. So please be on the lookout if you feel that you are an emo Fili AK. And you fall in love too fast and too often. Maybe you need to read up on what Reba McEntire is doing and slow it down. Dr. Helen Fisher always says practice slow love. And I say the same thing. Hey, speaking of Dr. Helen Fisher, she has once again partnered up with a match to do their singles in America study. And she’s a biological anthropologist.

And what they do every year is they take a huge sample of singles, thousands of people, and they pull them on all of these attitudes about being single in America. And then they let people like me talk about this data for for all time. So here are the headlines, I want you to know, there are a couple things in this year’s report that really surprised me. Did you know that a quarter of singles had sex with a non romantic roommate over the last six months in the pan Demi. I cannot believe that that many people would cross that barrier with somebody that they are not romantically involved with. But sexologist call this situational sexual behavior I had never heard of this I’m learning to as we go along. And the meaning of that is that social or environmental factors can cause people to express sexual behaviors different from their previous preferences, and behaviors under most normal circumstances. And this made me worried y’all not just for those who are having sex with their roommates, and men are now going to still be stuck with them for months and months and have to figure out how to normalize all of this. But it made me wonder what other sort of unexpected sexual behaviors people are engaging in because, you know, we we are approaching this period of, of skin hunger and the drought of touch. And I’ll be talking in next week’s episode, a little bit more about that and how that affects us. But just really be mindful of your choices, because they do have repercussions. Most people two thirds a single said they’re ready to go on an in person date. And of course, there was a huge, huge increase in video dating over the last three years, they found they said only 25% increase. I think it’s been way more than that in the middle of the pandemic. But maybe that’s the number that we’ve settled on. So a lot of you have been asking me, is it okay to now move from a video chat to an actual social distance date? Yes, you have my permission, you may move offline. I would prefer you still wear a mask or social distance at least six feet and be outdoors. But you do you boo. The one thing that is really key we talked about this a couple weeks ago, you have to find somebody that is sharing your political beliefs. According to this study. 76% of singles believe it’s important for a partner to share their same political beliefs. But here’s something that was super crazy about that. nearly a quarter of singles change their political affiliation during the pandemic. This is a juicy juicy study this year. I’ve also been asking them to give me some data about interracial dating. And finally for this year, for the first time, they have included that there has been an increase to singles being open to dating people of a different ethnicity 58% increase so lucky all the numbers don’t lie. Let’s all get with the program date for the future. cuffing season is upon us and In a moment, I will be back with my guest Brian bellefonte, who is a real estate agent with a new book and a new approach to dating. According to the way he helps people find houses, don’t go anywhere, y’all. I’m here with Brian Belafonte. He is a real estate agent with some pretty big ideas on house hunting, and spouse hunting. Following an unexpected divorce. He wondered if he could use his set of 99 rules of real estate that he developed to re enter the dating world with the goal of finding a new spouse. He’s written it all down in his brand new book spouse hunting using the rules of real estate to find the love of your life. And now he’s going to give us a sneak peek. Please help me give big smooches to Brian Belafonte.

Unknown Speaker 10:48
Oh, tomato, thank you so much for having me.

Damona 10:50
Okay, this is a different kind of conversation. And I knew the minute I heard about your book, I was like Dayton mates, listeners need to know this. So your book is spouse hunting, using the rules of real estate to find the love of your life. I think this is so smart and such a such a great approach. But I want to break it down so that people are able to follow these steps and then get your book and, and and do it to a tee. One of the important things that in real estate there, you know, buying and selling are two separate transactions. And I think it’s important to keep that in mind when you’re dating too. It’s like you don’t want to buy

Unknown Speaker 11:29
a spouse. And I know that’s, you know, that’s gonna raise some hackles. But you don’t want to find a partner who doesn’t want to find you. So you’re simultaneously Buying and selling. And so when it comes to buying, what you’re doing is you’re evaluating the market to see what the landscape is, then you’re looking at the properties that are actually on the market at that moment. And then among those, you’re choosing the ones that fit you the best.

Damona 11:51
Well, first, we just have to get everyone in the mindset of being the buyer, because I’m totally on board with this. And like I’m always telling people, you want to be the one that’s doing the picking, right, you’re selecting, but you bring up a really good point, Brian, you have to select among the pool that’s out there like yeah, I guess there are those people that go up and knock on doors. I did this actually, I was looking for my house. It did not work. No towball. Listen, this did not work. But I, I had my realtor go and knock on somebody’s door because I was like, I love that house. And that’s like sort of the equivalent of like approaching somebody with a wedding ring and being like, Yeah, I love your ring. Take it off. I love your house. And they were like, Are you kidding me? Get out of here. We’re not selling

Unknown Speaker 12:39
can happen. And I actually have done that. You know, when I was first getting into business school around the neighborhood, just talk to people find out you know where they are with their house, how happy they are? If they’re interested in something, yeah, most of the time now. So let’s translate

Damona 12:52
that to dating. let’s translate that to dating. Should you be having conversations kicking the tires with people not knowing where they stand? If they’re single or not?

Unknown Speaker 13:03
Yes, and no, the way I see it is, it’s a lot easier to go out to the market that is available and looking because you do want to partner up with somebody who’s looking to partner up. And there are a lot of reasons One of them being the wedding ring that people aren’t interested for a while after my divorce. I was, you know, occasionally dating, but I certainly wasn’t looking for a relationship. And so there were a couple of times when people come up and kick my tires, and yeah, we’ll go get coffee, we’ll have dinner, whatever, but it wasn’t gonna go anywhere. And I tried to be clear about it as clear as I could have been. The reality is, though, if you’re looking for a partnership, you got to find somebody who’s looking for a partnership to otherwise you’re just gonna end up being disappointed most of the time.

Damona 13:49
I fully agree, which is why I highly recommend dating apps. And I know people are some people listening might say, well, you’re just saying that because you met your spouse that way. And, and I’ve worked with a lot of the different dating apps, but I really say it for the exact reason that that you say work with the existing market, because you already know most of those people are at least interested in casual data. And yes, I know everybody’s gonna be like, but there are people who will go on the dating apps and they’re married or they’re looking to be polyamorous or they’re not looking for anything serious. Yes, but the majority of the people there are looking for casual dating, or more versus people were like just teach me how to like everyone’s fascinated with my, my social media dating techniques and how to make a match that way. I gotta tell you, it’s a lot harder. It’s far more work than going to a pool of already up already qualified sellers, I guess if you’re the buyer

Unknown Speaker 14:59
Yeah. You’re absolutely right. And I I’m a big fan of the dating apps too, because I met my current girlfriend on Redfin. Exactly. Redfin and Zillow did the same thing, as you know, Keller Williams and the little boutique agencies. And yes, they all have sort of access to the same properties. Because Yeah, you I do believe like what you say and you’re, you’ve said in a couple of your episodes, don’t just limit yourself to one map. Kind of a couple of them got

Damona 15:26
Yes. Yeah. And and like, like you’re saying, Redfin is sort of an aggregator of a lot of different ones. So it is good to be on multiple, multiple apps at the same time. So let’s flip the thinking. Now, Brian, we’ve talked about the buyer perspective. Let’s talk about the seller perspective. What have you learned from as a real estate agent? What Tell me about how the mindset of the seller and the experience of the seller aligns from the dating perspective?

Unknown Speaker 16:00
Well, I think that from a seller’s perspective, a lot of it has to do with marketing, it’s getting yourself out there so that people who are looking know that you’re available. And one of the things that we see in the real estate market is there are buyers markets, and there are sellers markets. And so if you’re in a seller’s market, that means that there you know, there are more buyers out there, then there are properties that to buy. And so all you kind of have to do is plant the flag and people will come. But if you’re in a buyer’s market, then you’re going to have to fight for people’s attention. And I believe that what you can do, especially when it comes to these apps, but all these other channels as well, is do the marketing, you know, position yourself within the market create the messaging that explains clearly who you are, and what you are offering. And when I say offering, it’s like, I do believe that when it comes to dating and real estate, you’re not so much buying the thing, you’re buying the lifestyle, you’re buying the promise that the thing gives you, what is my life going to be like with this person or in this house?

Damona 17:07
And I think you said that, yeah, go on, go on.

Unknown Speaker 17:10
Well, so that’s what i think that you know, that’s what you can do this with the opportunity it gives you with these apps, but also I mean, and I know it apps are easy to talk about, because they give you the opportunity pretty easily. But it’s like, Alright, if you are looking for me, here’s what your life is going to be like when you’re with me. So if you you know, if there’s a picture of me making a face in a bathroom in a selfie, that tells a whole different story from me hanging out with friends, you know, on a dock watching the sunset, I mean, what life Am I offering you that you can see yourself as being part of

Damona 17:46
I love that you picked up both on the storytelling telling element that I mentioned on the show, like tell your story through your dating profile photos. But beyond that, I also do visualizations with my clients. And some of my listeners have heard my ideal mate visualization, where you’re putting yourself in the future of what does it feel like to be with that person? And that’s exactly why I do it. Right. It’s amazing how much overlap there is between house hunting and spouse hunting.

Unknown Speaker 18:18
Yeah, it was just a fantastic epiphany when I realized that it is the same process. I mean, you’re going for a feeling.

Damona 18:24
Right? Yeah. Right. And in a way, you know, my background is as a casting director, in a way, it’s the same thing there. It’s like, how does that person feel in that

Unknown Speaker 18:33
role?

Damona 18:34
But in the book, you talk about time how to stop wasting time with people who aren’t qualified or interested? Yeah. This is one of the number one things I hear from listeners, like everybody’s like, I do not have time to waste on these people who are not a fit. How do we stop wasting the time using the rules of real estate? Brian?

Unknown Speaker 18:57
Well, I think first thing you have to do is have clarity. And the first bit of clarity is what it is that you want. And, you know, if you want a relationship that’s different from getting laid. And I’m not saying there’s you know, one’s better than the other, it’s what you want, you need to know. And if it is that you want a relationship, then it’s easy to evaluate the people you’re looking at and going. Does this look like a person who wants a relationship? If the answer’s no, move on? It’s that easy.

Damona 19:25
Yes, it can be that easy. We make it more complicated. I imagine you see that as well like with, with buyers that sometimes we make it too complicated.

Unknown Speaker 19:35
Sometimes we do and the other thing that it’s hard to account for is that feeling you get inside, you know, you walk into a place and it’s like, oh my god, it’s perfect. And you do that with people and unfortunately, sometimes it It isn’t the right person. It just you know, you get sort of taken down this path that isn’t the best thing for you and doesn’t meet the criteria that you think you’ve established for yourself, but you can’t help yourself.

Damona 20:01
We can’t help ourselves, what are some of the other negatives that you run into with buyers? Like what are the things as a real estate agent that are frustrating about the the buying and selling experience that might be able to be applied to dating, and hopefully help people learn where some of their shortcomings as a data might be?

Unknown Speaker 20:26
I think the biggest one that comes up is when people make a decision based on a feeling without having the information. And I see this, like with house sellers, it’s really easy. People got my house is worth $650,000. Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. But the value that you think the house has is the one thing that has nothing to do with what somebody will pay for it. You know, and doesn’t matter what you put into it, what matters is what somebody else thinks it’s worth. And this works both ways people think of themselves, you know, not objectively, they don’t mean, I’m not worthy of somebody who’s whatever. Or they think that, you know, I’m too good for that. And I think the important thing there is just have a realistic perspective, like, this is who I am. And I’m not saying that, you know, don’t have high hopes, you should always have high hopes, you should find the perfect person for who you are. But you should also be the perfect person for who they are. Mm hmm.

Damona 21:28
And you’re not making this up. You you’ve, you’ve tested these strategies, you’ve tested them on yourself with a book,

Unknown Speaker 21:37
I’m always I’m one of those people that likes to figure out how things work. When I first got into real estate, I was not ready for any kind of relationship. So I just dove in to work. And I would write down these rules of real estate to help me figure out how to approach approach to the process with my clients. And then when I think you know, things settle down, and emotionally, I was ready to find a relationship. That’s when I had the epiphany. It’s like, Okay, this process can work for finding a partner. And wouldn’t you know, it did, I mean, I’ve got this amazing girlfriend is perfect me, she thinks she’s perfect, I’m perfect for her. And it was using those rules that got me here. So that’s why it turned into a book.

Damona 22:24
See, I love the Curiosity there too. Like, a lot of times we get caught up in in the feeling like you were saying, and also in the feeling of being single, like the commiserating with our girlfriends, the the feeling that the the talking about dating apps, and how frustrating and awful they are. And that becomes an echo chamber of our thoughts. But you actually found a way out by taking this, you know, the love lab of your life, and really systematizing it, which is essentially what I’m always talking about on the show.

Unknown Speaker 22:59
And the important thing too, is that this is a process, it’s not a solution. It’s not like read this book, and you’re going to find the person. Now, read this book or follow your advice. And you’re going to find an approach that will help you find a person. But it’s the approach that’s going to make things more efficient, it’s going to help you identify the people that aren’t appropriate, it’s going to help you hone your messaging so that you’re saying the thing that will appeal to the person that will appeal to you, those kinds of things.

Damona 23:30
So all of all of these things are important as you’re in real estate, you have to have sort of the headline, the hook. And then you have to have the description, you have to have the photos. And then but then there’s all these other elements to the package of like, you know, location, location, location, right? And all of these other things, the schools educate, I’m just thinking of all the parallels right now. And my nerdy brain is just going wild. What I’m curious about Brian, is does this same system work equally from them? And

Unknown Speaker 24:05
I’m convinced it does. Um,

Unknown Speaker 24:09
when I first came up with a draft of the book, I pass it around to, you know, people who I could trust for advice. And as it turns out, my circle at that time was a lot of women. Strangely, a lot of people that I’ve met on dating sites, and we just became friends. And the responses were pretty uniformly Yeah, this is good. This helps the seller I’m not ready for this, but thank you. I can’t see why this wouldn’t work. I tried really hard to make it sort of agnostic in terms of gender or sexual identity. And the people that I’ve talked to have been pretty supportive and saying, Yeah, you did a pretty good job with that.

Damona 24:50
And they’re 99 years old, a little bit about, you’ve told us like, I don’t know. But why 99 is that an auspicious

Unknown Speaker 24:59
number? I

Unknown Speaker 25:00
mean it, when I sort of wrote them all down, it came out to 98. And I thought 99 felt better. So I duplicated one. And the duplication is sort of meant to emphasize the rule itself, you know, in a

Unknown Speaker 25:16
meta way.

Unknown Speaker 25:20
Yeah, that was you can’t step into the same river twice. And what that means is, when you’re looking for a house, right now, you can look from among the houses that are available in the market, but six months from now, most of those will be sold, and new ones will be listed. And that’s the same thing with dating, when you go onto a dating site. Yeah, you’re gonna see the same person every once in a while, but the pool changes people get into relationships, people die, people, you know, get divorced, whatever. But what you’re looking at now is different from what it’s going to be then. And inversely, or conversely, or whatever, presumably, you’re going to be slightly different as well, you’ve matured, you’ve learned you’ve, you know, whatever. And you found things that are more important now than they were six months ago.

Damona 26:10
Well, keeping that timeline in mind, since our lives are dramatically different than they were six months ago. And when I look to the future, I hope, I hope I hope our lives are dramatically different than they are right now. I’m curious if these rules because you wrote this at a time when COVID wasn’t a thing, how did these rules still apply? In a time? So I

Unknown Speaker 26:33
think one thing they help in many ways, I think one of the things that COVID has done is it’s forced us to be a little less quick to jump into intimate relationships with people. Which I think is you know, when it comes if you’re looking for a relationship, you don’t get distracted by as easily or as quickly by you know, that interpersonal stuff, the feel of somebody’s skin, oh, my God, you know, that that could mess with your brain? Yeah, I can.

Damona 27:11
And it does, it does. And when we we forget, like, we want to be so evolved, but we are still biologically wired. And in a way the world that we live in is almost working against biology in some ways, and we’re having to adapt and and relearn, just like you know, you’ve had to adapt throughout your life you’ve had, you’ve had some big life changes, you’ve had a divorce, and then a big move and a new career. And you’re constantly making it work. So I I love the philosophy that you have. I love the book. And I really,

Unknown Speaker 27:53
really appreciate you having me on.

Damona 27:58
lovers, we have more ground to cover in just a moment, I will be back answering your questions on everything from what kind of standards should you uphold in dating today and social distance, date inspiration, you got to get out there and be dating but we can’t have another boring, boring interview style date. You want to know what you can do that will be a little bit more fun. Stick around.

Welcome back. We are here with your favorite segment where I answer your questions do

Unknown Speaker 28:37
damona helped me?

Damona 28:39
This question was emailed to me Dimona at damona Hoffman calm. It seems like a lot of men are more lacs about their standards right now. And I struggle to find people who seem in line with me suggestions on how to figure out where I stand with people. This is very interesting, because the idea of other people being lacs about their standards, I don’t know if this person is referring to standards around COVID dating, which I am finding lean a little bit more towards women being being more

a little bit more more conservative on how far they’re willing to go or how intimate they’re willing to get with someone without knowing their COVID status. But if we’re just talking about standards in general, I think that you get back what you put out. So if you’re allowing people to have lacks standards to treat you in a way that is disrespectful or you’re continuing to say swipe right on people that seem to have put very little effort forward in their profile, then you will get stuck in an echo chamber of receiving those same things. You can go back to the algorithms episode or gaycupid episode when I talked about how You’re, you’re getting more of what you don’t want, sometimes when you are swiping the wrong way on the wrong people. But in terms of how to figure out where you stand with people, I say just go for it. I I’m a big fan of doing either a video chat, or a phone call before the first day and people are always asking me like, last week, I was on the Drew Barrymore show and this woman said, How do I move to the phone call without making it awkward? It’s only awkward if you make it awkward. You tell people what your standards are, you teach people how to treat you. And those who are willing to step up will step up. And those who either feel that you’re too much, or feel that they cannot reach that barrier, they will gracefully step themselves out. But the only way that you’ll know is by boldly making the line and figuring out like, when I do the the video chat, I don’t just say, oh, let’s video chat sometime, or here’s my number call me. I have my clients say call me between six and eight. And then you know, is this person in integrity? Are they good with time? Are they going to respect your boundaries? And in a way it’s a test. It’s not like a test test, but it’s it’s an indication of what their standards are. And that can tell you a lot about their compatibility for you in the future. My next question also was an emailed question. Did I mentioned demona to Mohammed calm, or you can Instagram me? Or you can DM me on Instagram at damona Hoffman? Moving on. This person says I need some social distance data inspiration, what are virtual or in person activities that go beyond a picnic hike or staring at each other through screens? Well, I think that we can get more creative with the staring at each other through screens. I like to gamify that first date, maybe doing 20 questions playing, playing taboo, doing a sip and paint night, somehow bringing in an activity that takes the pressure off the staring at each other through screens. I’m a big fan of the hike. I think hikes are great. The weather is going to turn a lot of places. So enjoy. Enjoy it while you still can. I’m from the Midwest, you guys know. So I have been through all the seasons. Now I live in California, and I don’t I don’t deal with that anymore. But I can relate. So y’all need to step up your your cuffing season game right now. Go for the hike. But okay, you don’t want to do hike, look, do yoga in the park. You can stargaze in your own backyard like I have a an app that tells me what the constellations are on my phone, you could do that. You could do do a virtual escape room or do like a virtual I did this virtual game through let’s called let’s roam. It’s an app. It’s really fun. And it’s like a scavenger hunt. And so that can make your virtual date really fun. Or it can make your in person date really fun. If you do it together. Do a book club, get creative, get creative, and it’s not going to just happen naturally. You have to you have to make the dates more fun, you have to come up with ideas that get you out of the box. Because believe me, it’s easy. I understand. I am tired in this quarantine. And I’m tired of this quarantine. I fully understand how it’s much easier to just Netflix and chill. And it’s much easier to just be like, oh, let’s go for a walk or let’s go to the park. But if you put in just as much more more effort, you can get a lot more bang for your buck and find you’ll have more to talk about you’ll have a better time and you will feel less like you’re wasting. You’re wasting time you’re wasting connections if you are just going to the dates by rote so I hope those social distance date ideas give you some inspiration. And be sure to check out the dates and rates blog for more tips and more social distance date ideas and dating advice. This is Episode 331 updates and mates. Check out Brian’s book to y’all. This is so revolutionary. I so loved my conversation with Brian. We will put the link to the book on Amazon but you can also look up spouse hunting using the rules of real estate to find the love of your life. I want to hear your questions. We’re doing something special in a few weeks with the deer demona I’ll tell you about in a few weeks, but in the meantime, I want to hear your questions. So DM me at damona Hoffman on all the socials. And by the way, do not forget we need those ratings and reviews so we can heal all those hearts. You’re a part of a movement So, do your part. Just take us I swear 90 seconds it’ll take you 90 seconds. You can do a rating and a review and thank you to all of those who have done that already. I loved reading from marquees who said even while you’re locked away, listening to Dimona can help you find love. She’s the absolute best. You’re the absolute best marquees you leave me a review like that, I’ll be sure to shout you out on the show. I’ll be back again next week with Dr. Laura Berman. We’re going to talk about skin hunger, and so much more. You may remember her from her own radio show. She’s also been on the Steve Harvey show. This is a hot one. Make sure you’re subscribed so you get that the minute it posts. Until next week. I wish you early voting and happy dating

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

 

Inside OkCupid & VILF

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Love Lessons: Visualize Your Mate

LOVE LESSONS

Many of you have reached out recently expressing quarantine fatigue which is compounded by being single. You have a deep desire for someone to navigate this period of fear and frustration. You can only do so many zoom calls with friends to make up for the fact that you’re solo all day every day. And dating apps have lost their allure with the possibility that you may not be able to meet in person for weeks or even months.

So this month, we are going to have a completely different format from the usual Dates & Mates. This series is designed to take you deeper on a mental, spiritual, and even physical level to design the love life you want. This unexpected break from the rat race of love and life we had been caught in is giving us an opportunity to get clarity and explore parts of ourselves that had been buried away.

Today Damona invites you to begin a four-part journey with us called  Love Lessons. Today’s lesson is a visualization exercise.

via GIPHY

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:12

Hello lovers, welcome to dates and mates. I can’t believe it. But we are coming to the end of our seventh season of the show. And to close out the season, we have a special micro series called love lessons, which consisted of an interview last week. And three special mind body and spirit love lessons for the remainder of the month. If you’re new to the show,

Damona  0:39  

welcome.

Damona  0:40  

But I want to advise you that this isn’t the regular format, which usually includes headlines, interviews and q&a. So if you’re new, I encourage you to go back and listen to some additional episodes from this season first and then come back and join me for this unusual podcast experience for Those of you who already know the show, and are ready to go deeper with me, I want you to join me for this three episode exploration into your mind, body and spirit as it relates to love. Let’s go. Today we’re going to do a visualization to help you see your ideal mate. You can use this as a meditation or tool anytime you need clarity and focus in your dating life, or as a regular weekly meditation to train your mind to see this person when they cross your path. So now I want you to turn off all other distractions. You can do this with your eyes closed if you’re in a place where you can sit or lie down. Or you can do it as a walking, hiking, running, maybe even driving meditation. If you’re not somewhere that you can sit and stop moving,

Damona  1:51  

but just be careful.

Damona  1:54  

And the important thing is that you find a sense of quiet if you’re not big into meditation, That’s okay. I’ve studied yoga for 20 years. And I’ll be honest that only in the last one or two years has meditation made its way into my life in a regular and meaningful way.

Damona  2:12  

So you just start where you are,

Damona  2:15  

and you don’t need to be an expert.

Damona  2:17  

There’s no good or bad way to meditate or

Damona  2:19  

visualize. I used to think I was a bad meditator if thoughts float in, but you have to remember that you’re human, and you will never cease your brain from thinking. So just allow yourself to go on a journey with me and let your brain float without judgment of what you’re thinking what you’re doing, what you should be doing or what you want the outcome to be. Just be for the next few minutes. I just want you to be right here with me, letting my voice guide you to unexpected places. Get a comfortable seat and take a deep breath in

Damona  3:01  

And out.

Damona  3:04  

You are here. You’re here with me. And we’re going to take a journey into your future. But to get to the future, first we’re going to start in the present. How does your body feel right now? Are you tired, achy, or tense? Are you relaxed and at ease? Take another breath in. And imagine yourself shedding any worries of the day that you’ve been holding on to those worries of the past that get stuck in our bodies, and they keep us from being present or from moving into the future, which is what we’re going to do today. So in this moment, there are no worries. There’s only you and me,

Damona  3:51  

and this trip we’re going to take

Damona  3:52  

so let it go.

Damona  3:56  

Now I have something to share with you.

Damona  3:59  

No big deal. But I have a time travel portal. This portal is a powerful tool because I can let you through it anytime you want. And you can go visit your future with just the power of your mind. In fact, you can even borrow the portal whenever you want, and go visit your future self. This time machine portal looks like an ordinary door, but it has the power to unlock the life you want. So in your mind, I want you to picture the door right now. Imagine it

Damona  4:34  

what feelings come up for you as you look at it,

Damona  4:38  

approach it and as you walk up to it,

Damona  4:42  

it opens on its own

Damona  4:45  

and the other side of it is bright and inviting. I want you to take a step closer

Damona  4:54  

and now taking another deep breath

Damona  4:58  

and exhale as you will walk

Damona  5:00  

through it.

Damona  5:02  

Now you’re standing on the other side, and you’re bathed in a white light as you travel with me into your future, this light is taking away the past ideas that you have had about yourself, the prior wounds that you’ve carried from relationship to relationship, the threads that tether you to the past watches they’re all floating away in that white light. And now, another door appears in front of you. Don’t worry, this one isn’t a magic portal. This is your front door, the front door of your home one year in the future. The white light is giving way to color and you could see your home or your apartment door clearly in front of you. This is your door one year in the future so it may not look Like the front door you currently have. But that familiar feeling of coming home after a long trip, it washes over you right now. Can you stand in front of the door, happy to be there. Maybe you’re flooded with a mix of emotions. You’re standing there one year in the future, at the door of your future home with your future partner.

Damona  6:26  

You ready to meet this person.

Damona  6:30  

You move forward to the door and it opens up

Damona  6:34  

and your home is sparkling clean Of course, and bright and you instantly feel at ease in the space. But you know you’re not alone here. Your partner has been waiting for you. You call out to him or her.

Damona  6:51  

And after a few moments, this person comes to greet you.

Damona  6:55  

Here you are a year in the future. Living with your dream. partner, they approach you and say hello. And then your love wraps their arms around you to welcome you home. You smell their smell? You feel their embrace. You hear their voice?

Damona  7:16  

How does it feel?

Damona  7:19  

How does it feel to be held by the person who have waited for so long to meet? How does it feel to be surrounded with love?

Damona  7:32  

What does their hug tell you about them?

Damona  7:37  

look into their eyes.

Damona  7:40  

What do you know about them from gazing at them? Now that you’ve been together and you know one another on a deep level, what do you simply understand from the way he or she looks at you? How does this person make you feel?

Damona  7:57  

How do you feel right now?

Damona  8:01  

Stare deeper into their eyes until you can feel their heart.

Damona  8:09  

What does this person believe?

Damona  8:13  

How are their values aligned with yours? Don’t think and feel it?

Damona  8:23  

What does this person want from life?

Damona  8:28  

What do they dream of creating with you?

Damona  8:32  

How does it feel to be in their presence? Do you feel supported? Do you feel stimulated? Do you feel relieved? What does this person bring into your life that you’ve never had before?

Damona  8:50  

As you step out of the hug,

Damona  8:51  

you prepare

Damona  8:53  

to speak to them. And this is a private conversation between only you and your love. You open your mouth and the words you’ve been waiting and wanting to say finally come out. And only you know what these words are. Try to remember them as they will stay with you after we’ve left this place.

Damona  9:22  

What does your partner say in return?

Damona  9:30  

Hold on to those words.

Damona  9:34  

What else do you want to share with your

Damona  9:35  

partner?

Damona  9:37  

I’ll give you a moment to lose yourself in this personal conversation. If you prefer to stay quiet and just be with your partner, that’s okay too. This is your time.

Damona  10:16  

You and your partner both signs that it’s time for the visit to end. So you begin to say your goodbyes, but it’s not Goodbye forever, because you’ll see them in real life very soon. Take a moment to send your partner off. Get a last look at this person for now and take in what it’s like to be with this person. How has it felt to share space with your soulmate?

Damona  10:47  

Is there anything else you need to say to them before you go

Damona  10:53  

give them one last kiss or a hug

Damona  10:56  

as it’s time to depart and come back through the portal.

Damona  11:02  

You walk back through your front door

Damona  11:06  

and step out again into the strong white light. It envelops you with the feeling you had of being with your love. And it reminds you that you can take this feeling with you. Even though you are not yet with that partner in the present, the feeling of being with them can linger. That feeling will signify when you have met this person. And you will feel that same feeling in the present when you and your partner cross paths.

Damona  11:36  

But until that time,

Damona  11:37  

you can take your feelings along with

Damona  11:40  

you and the personal words that you and your partner shared. The white light is now starting to give way to the shape of the magical portal in front of you. Gather your thoughts and feelings up like luggage as you prepare to cross through the portal. into the present. And remember that you can take along, anything that you want to come with you. And then anything that you want to leave behind can remain here in the white light. Anything that you need to release that is not serving you can be left behind

Damona  12:18  

anything that was a hitchhiker from the past

Damona  12:21  

that doesn’t belong in your future. You can leave it at the door and your burden will be relieved. Only cross that magical portal with the things that you want to take with you.

Damona  12:38  

Do you have what you need?

Damona  12:42  

And then it’s time to come back to the now.

Damona  12:46  

Step through the door and meet me back in the present moment. As you stand on the presence side of the portal, the awareness of your body is starting to return Feel your feet grounded to the earth. Feel your fingers tingling, you can wiggle them a bit. Breathe. You can stretch yourself out and take in another deep breath grounding yourself in the present moment. You are back in the here and now. But you’re not alone. You have the memories of the future you’re building

Damona  13:27  

along with you.

Damona  13:30  

If your eyes are closed, you can begin to flutter them open slowly.

Damona  13:35  

And again, you are here.

Damona  13:40  

Now that this journey is fresh in your mind, you can choose to write down anything that you wish to remember about your trip. Any feelings or impressions about your future mate that you want to record. You can write them down now. And remember that this visualization is always here for you. Anytime you need to tell some thing to your future partner, you can take this journey with me again, or go through that portal on your own. The first step in finding your ideal mate is to know what you’re looking for, and get into the feeling of being with this person. You need clarity on the qualities and values of your ideal partner before you can design a plan to find this person. But it’s most important that you develop the faith that they are out there for you and the connection to bring them into your life. Look for that feeling that you had in the embrace you shared a moment ago. That feeling will be repeated when you’re with your ideal match. This is the first step of three on a mind body and spirit journey. This visualization is your mental journey. Next time we will go on an exploration of the body that will open you up to love. Thank you so much for listening and thank you For taking this time for yourself. On August 3, season eight of dates and mates will begin. I have a super, super, super, super, super special guest for you for that show and I cannot wait to reveal who this person is. Soon. Not yet but soon. In the meantime, I would love to hear your reaction to these special love lessons episodes. You can message me on social media. I’m at Dimona Hoffman, or you can send me an email Dimona at damona Hoffman calm, the link will be in the show notes. In closing, I humbly ask you to support the show through Patreon. I wanted to bring you these love lessons without any ad interruptions in the middle. So it will help me to continue to make dates and mates free for so many. If you can pledge just $5 a month to support the show. In addition to the special video trainings and discounts on my future programs and access to my library of older data mates episodes. I’m also adding videos within the Patreon Friends with Benefits Facebook group that will give you a behind the scenes take on recent dates and mates episodes, and it will include live private q&a with me. So I encourage you to please join the community for only $5 at patreon.com slash dates and mates again, that link will also be in the show notes. Thank you so much for your support. I am so appreciative for the recent five star reviews. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. If you can think of a friend who could use this week’s visualization. Please do share this episode with them. Until next week, I wish you happy dating

Tall Guy Vibe & Keeping It Cute

SHOULD HEIGHT REALLY MATTER IN DATING?

On today’s episode of the Dates & Mates podcast, Damona sits down with Vince Gauglione, long-time friend of the show and author of “Why Are You Still Single? An Average Joe’s Take on What’s Really Going On in the Dating Pool and What You Can Do to Stay Afloat.”

Vinca and Damona discuss if height really matters in today’s world, the biggest pet peeves men have in dating, and his new book on why you’re still single

More on that later, first Damona covers headlines!

DATING DISH (2:00)

Something you need to know…

This week is Sexual Assault Awareness Month. Damona covers everything you need to know. If you or someone you know needs help, call Call 800.656.HOPE (4673) to be connected with a trained staff member from a sexual assault service provider in your area.

via GIPHY

 

A Netflix show you will hate to love or love to hate

Is Too Hot To Handle hot or not? It’s stirring up a lot of controversy for its potentially detrimental messages on sex and love. Damona has thoughts.

via GIPHY

Relationship Stress Strategies

John and Julie Gottman – some of Damona’s most trusted researchers on love and relationships – give their tips to reduce relationship stress during this time.

via GIPHY

TALL GUY VIBE (12:00)

You’ve heard love advice from the experts, now the average joes:

According to Vince, men have a few dating pet peeves we should all know about:

  • Unrealistic Dating Profiles
  • Too much shorthand in DMs
  • Too much phone time on dates
  • When their date makes it obvious that they’re just checking off boxes “ideal-mate must-haves” list

 

He goes into detail on this, PLUS he gives us his opinion as a 5’7 man trying to find love:


Find Vince at www.vinceguaglione.com and make sure to pick up a copy of his book and follow him on Facebook, @theaveragejoesdatingconfessional

TECHNICALLY DATING (38:00)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • Email from Jacqueline – During this time of Covid19 pandemic I’m looking to get back into online dating. In this time of pandemic no salons are open so no makeover for me do I go with “the best I can” look due to circumstances and not let it be a deterrent for my profile?
  • IG message – A guy and i matched on Bumble prior to all of this happening, but never got the chance to meet up. We have FaceTimed twice (first time was 2 hrs!) and text/Instagram every day. Finding it hard now that it’s almost 2 months in to keep up conversation beyond daily Groundhog Day happenings. Also hard to not get too emotionally invested when you talk daily and you don’t know where the other person stands (if they are talking or other people) and you haven’t even met yet so what position are you in to ask?! Any tips for keeping an even mind and things to chat about until we have a chance to meet?

 

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

 

Damona  0:12  

Hello lovers. Those of you who follow dates and mates for a while now know that I am all about getting clear on the true criteria that you need in your future or current life partner. And it’s not a secret that I have been campaigning for daters to take height completely off their list. Back in February, during the five q fab series, Bella Gandhi and I had a little conversation that was rather controversial. For some of our listeners. We are of the opinion that height shouldn’t matter in today’s world, but not all of our listeners are in agreement with that. So today, we’re getting a man’s perspective on dating As a short guy from Vince Gagliano, he’s a longtime listener of dates and mates. And he’s a successful author with a new book that’s all about his dating experiences. More on that later. But first, we have headlines this week, including something important that you need to be aware of this month, and a new Netflix series that you will love to hate, or hate to love. Plus a few tips to make marriage and quarantining a little less stressful. Then, after my chat with Vince, I will be answering your questions, including how to keep it cute for dating during quarantine, and how to have better conversations with the Bumble Bay you’ve never met. Then in the last segment of the show, I will make a very big announcement that you won’t want to miss. And now it’s time for the dish, these dating dish. So it’s April and that means yes, it’s tax month and financial literacy. The month, which I could do a whole episode on, but even more importantly, right now, it’s also Sexual Abuse Awareness Month. And I have to admit, I went back and forth on whether or not to include something in the show about that because, you know, I like to keep it light on dates and mates and keep it positive and give you all advice and opportunities to find love. But I can’t overlook the fact that this is a serious problem in many relationships. When you look at the numbers, eight out of 10 rapes are committed by someone that you know, and sometimes even by your own partner. And looking at the numbers for forensic nurse examiners in DC, they’re reporting a 43% decrease in patient seeking treatment year over year. So that means fewer people are reporting sexual assault and coming in to get treated and evaluated for it. So that tells me one of two things either, people are quarantining, so often They’re just not in situations where they’re coming in contact with one another. And there are fewer sexual abuse incidents happening. Or worse yet, and more likely the case, people are experiencing it more and feeling unsafe about getting help and saying what’s going on. So just a little note for today’s to start out today’s show, that there are programs that are still open for victims of sexual assault, and the government has actually passed funding to keep them running. So if you are someone that you know, is dealing with a sexual assault situation, please call the number we’ll put in the show notes. One 800 656. Hope that’s 1-800-656-4673

 

on a completely different notes on a consensual sexual note, there’s a neutral show on Netflix that’s blowing my mind and the minds of many other people. Have you seen this? It’s called too hot to handle. It’s all about a celibacy challenge. It’s basically temptation Island, but nobody can have sex with one another. That is the rule of the series. They put all these super hot singles in bikinis and high heels all the time. I love the bikini and high heel. Look, don’t get me wrong, but none of them are supposed to have sex with one another. They’re not even supposed to make out they’re not supposed to have Heavy Petting. They can’t even touch themselves, or they lose money. They’re trying to get $100,000 if they can abstain from sex for a month. Now, sexologist apparently are concerned that this will reverse the thinking on sex. They’ve done so much work to keep to make sex not taboo. And it seems like Netflix is on this. They’re on this mission, as they say at the top of life. as blind as at the top of this show, they’re trying to find ways to help people make deeper connections. And you can see in the first episode, I’m not telling you any spoilers because this is really the concept of the show, but the first episode when the people find out that they can’t have sex, and then they’re told you’re all here because you have way too much sex and you’re you’re not having deep enough emotional connections. The look on their faces is enough for the price of admission alone. But I gotta tell you, I love dating and relationship shows as you know, I can’t I cannot even with the show. It is literally the most salacious version of a dating and relationship show that you could possibly find. And I know what’s coming up is all these people sneaking around trying to have sex and not get caught. And it just seems like it’s gonna become a big ol mess. If you like that kind of train wreck programming. I think it’s going to be right down the middle perfect for you. But I for 1am going to be tapping out For those of you who are already in a relationship, and maybe feeling a little bit of the stress from quarantine, my friends at NPR interviewed, the amazing john and Julie got Minh and they offered up their tips on Morning Edition on how to reduce stress if you’re in a relationship and quarantine together, especially if your relationship is already on the rocks, because right now we’re dealing with a lot of anxieties. I know I’m feeling it, there’s the anxiety of the fear of possibly catching COVID or the stress of even dealing with friends or family members who have the virus, maybe you even have the virus or you’ve come out of quarantine. And you have that on top of not ever being able to get away from your partner and all of their idiosyncrasies and all of the fights, the old fights that you’ve had coming back up because you’re in this pressure cooker. And there was some advice in this in this interview and this article that we’ll link to in the show notes that really is so key in communicating and relationships. The first thing I want to share with you is that they advise for one person to be the speaker when you’re trying to de stress and solve a problem. They said instead of trying to both trying to talk and everybody trying to be a fixer, right, we’ve talked on the show before about when you get in conflicts, a lot of times the partner wants to fix the issue instead of just listening. So what john and Julie got, Minh said was, you need to elect one person to be the speaker, and the other is the listener. And then the listener simply has to ask questions to deepen their understanding of the issue, and then just offer sympathy. And that is so hard. I believe me, I understand because I’m in this myself too. We we want the problem to go away. So we want to fix it, but sometimes what the other person needs is for you to just pause and hear them. And let them know that their frustration has been heard and felt by their partner. Because research shows that what partners really need in a marriage or a relationship is for the other person to be empathetic to them to be supportive. And that really can help when you have an ally that can help you manage your stress and feel really hurt. The second piece of advice that I think is really, really important, is they say when things get sort of snippy, when you get to that point of you’re like, Well, you did this and then you remember that time and 10 years ago, when it gets heated to that point, take a break, take a break from the conversation, and they recommend doing something self soothing, that calms you down, not ruminating on the conversation that just happened but doing something completely different that will give get you out of the fight or flight we talked a few weeks ago about fight flight or freeze, right? So you got to get yourself out of that mental space to be able to come back into it and have a conversation on a neutral level. And then you return to your partner at a designated time that you’ve already agreed to like, okay, we’re gonna take a break. Let’s talk about this after the kids go to bed. Let’s talk about this when we go on our nightly walk, and then you continue to the discussion from a more neutral place. Look, y’all I know it’s tough out there. We are going to get through it and communication. clear communication is the best. The best way for us to sort through these challenges, whether they’re new dating challenges and problems or coming up for miscommunication, or you’ve been in a relationship for a while. Speaking of NPR turns out that this week, I’m actually going to be on NPR. I’ll be recording an episode of NPR show. It’s been a minute with Sam Sanders, and I’ll be answering Bring your questions about love in the time of Coronavirus. So if you have a question dating or relationship related, it’s not too late to submit it to me for the answer on that show. You can just email me your question at Dimona at damona. Hoffman you can leave me a little voice memo and send that over or just leave me a voicemail if you don’t want to deal with all the all the buttons on the phone. Just call my voicemail four to 42466255 tell me what your challenges and you could end up hearing it on NPR. Those are headlines for today. right after this. We will hear Confessions of a middle aged short guy with no game, not my words, his words, but do stick around.

 

I’m back and I am joined by someone who has been right where you are right now listening to this podcast for love and relationship advice. Ben Scaglione is an author. Who writes about what he’s seen and experienced as a single guy in the dating world. His last dating book, Confessions of a middle aged short guy with no game, looked at the dating challenges of men through the lens of his own experience. And now, he’s written a new book titled Why are you still single and average Joe’s take on what’s really going on in the dating pool and what you can do to stay afloat? Joining us now from Raleigh, North Carolina, please give big smooches to a friend of the show. Vince Gagliano, the owner. All right, Vince, before we talk to you about your perspective, first I just want to thank you for being a longtime dates and mates listener and supporter. You and I have had a lot of conversations about dating challenges over dm. But now I’m really excited to speak with you in person about your new book. And any new perspective you’ve gained since the last time we communicated. I want to just start out Vince with this dedication you have in the book because I found it very inspiring. It said, it’s for those who have the courage to remain steadfast in their belief that through the disappointment, anguish and heartache, the world, the dating world serves up, it will all be worth it in the end. Keep the faith. Vince, how do you keep the faith in the face of the current dating scene as you see it?

 

Vince Gauglione 12:26  

Well, that’s that’s certainly tough, right? So I mean, we have a lot of people that are out there floating around that are single, and they have their own unique set of challenges. Of course, it’s a very personal experience for each and every one of us. And over time, you know, you’ve got so many disappointments, heartache. It kind of warps your perspective a little bit. So what you I think, what what every one of us has to do, who you know who’s single who’s dealing with these issues, we have to remember that You know, at some point, as long as we are doing everything we can to titles

 

Damona  13:05  

Why am I still single? I’m just gonna cut to the chase, why am I still single chapter one you say so why am I still single? And then you turn it around on yourself? What if, what if, what have you learned and what wisdom Can you share? in answering this question for other people or helping people answer it for themselves.

 

Vince Gauglione 13:24  

The key is really, you know, we’re not everybody’s cup of tea. That’s just the way dating works. You know, we’ve all been through those experiences, life and situations where it’s like, we think somebody’s perfect for us, or we’re really interested in someone and we find out you know, we’ve learned that that’s just not the case. Maybe they don’t you know, reciprocate. So, for us, we have to take a closer look, and when we take a moment to reflect back and ask ourselves, if we can be better if, you know, there’s, there’s anything that we need to look at a little bit closer, maybe things we haven’t explored in the past. is a good time to do that. And you might gain a new perspective. And I think that, you know, that’s that’s really the question here. Why if you ask yourself the question why you’re still single, you might find a few things that you maybe were unaware of that, you know, were kind of blockers in preventing you from finding what you were looking for.

 

Damona  14:19  

Okay, so let’s talk about what some of those things might be. And just based on your first book, Confessions of a middle aged short guy with no game, there’s there’s a lot of challenges just in that title. Right. Let’s just focus on the first one because I do hear this a lot, both from women and men. How big of a dating challenge Do you think being and you say short, Vince, you’re five, seven. That’s short. My dad is fine, too. And he’s had three wives and he’s doing just fine. So are like talking to him. He would even make some talk. He would make tell jokes about you. But people tell you you have a tall guy. What does that even mean?

 

Vince Gauglione 15:01  

Well, actually, that was kind of interesting because that came about through a, an IM chat, we’ve got talking about how he said to me, I would have never guessed your five, seven, you have a tall guy by and I thought, Okay, well, you know, in, in understanding this and kind of going looking looking back the past few years, a few years when I had gone and you know, research this based on my own experiences and tried to understand it a little bit more in depth is that, you know, the the height issue is it’s always out there, it’s always going to be an issue for short guys. But if we’re able to project dominance, power protection, we’re able to just admit that we’re just kind of evoke that through our personality, then all of a sudden, we as short guys wind up with that tall guy vibe. And that’s kind of what you know, attracts women. And that is the one thing that I hadn’t really Understood throughout all my years of dating, I realized that you know, I mean I looked at it as I wasn’t having any success, I get turned down a lot. And as it turned out, I wound up with like this chip on my shoulder, so it affected my overall mood and disposition. So in a way, I became kind of a martyr. And that certainly affected my dating life through you know, my, my first, you know, 30 years here on this earth, I didn’t finally start understanding what was going on until I got probably closer to 40. It affected me for a very long time in my life, and thus, you know, I wound up making poor choices myself.

 

Damona  16:36  

Well, that’s how we learn Right, exactly the last time I talked about high on the show, I got a little bit of hate mail Vince, I’m not gonna lie. Some tall ladies were pretty mad at me. And in encouraging them to look beyond height. So what I’m going to step back and just let you talk to the tall ladies and share what you I would say to them, because I mean, I totally get it like, there are definitely shorter guys that would be in that insecure place that maybe you were in before. That would be intimidated by a woman who is say over 510 or taller. Right? Sure. But then if you’re just limiting your dating pool, because you’ve had those experiences in the past, there could be great, shorter guys, that you’re overlooking, no pun intended.

 

Vince Gauglione 17:32  

Yeah, absolutely. Again, it’s like when we talk about this part of this is, you know, it’s like evolutionary, you know, it’s kind of wired into our DNA, the connotation for height is that person can protect that person. You know, I could be on that that person’s arm and I feel secure. And I think that, you know, for taller women, some of them certainly understand that Yeah, most of the men that they’re going to be You know, evaluating the dating pool probably are going to be shorter than them, especially if they’re like 511 or six foot. But what they’re really looking for is that sense of security in a way and a guy can he can he can present that just threw his personality alone. Mm hmm.

 

Damona  18:23  

Yes, I completely agree with you. And I, I find that it’s not even so much like the biological attraction to height. I think it’s a lot about the societal connotations with height as well, because, really, biologically, we should be attracted to that provider type, right, which can come in a lot of different forms. And it’s kind of going back to that the confidence element that you were talking about,

 

Vince Gauglione 18:56  

right. So yes, to Yeah, because you have if you if you are out in public and you see a couple, and the woman is like five or six inches taller than the guy, then you get a lot of weird looks, you know? Yeah.

 

Damona  19:10  

I mean, how many crews and Katie Holmes have or Tom Cruise and like anyone Tom Cruise has ever dated. Right? Right. Right. We’re like, fixated and fascinated, but Okay, I’m gonna, I’ll just give my one take and then we’ll move on that there are a lot of combinations that society will look at you and B, society will be uncomfortable with it. So like, if my parents were allowed what society told them about their relationship to impact their actions, then I wouldn’t be here because my dad’s white, my mom is black. And all the time they would go to a restaurant and get stares and sneers and even, you know, this was, this is 70s 80s like, they would get direct comments that they shouldn’t be together and I can’t. I can’t imagine it’s that as bad as that. But I’ve never been. I’ve never been a tall woman, people will look, you know, haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate hate, but we, we don’t have to pay attention to that if we’re going for what our heart really wants. So in your book, you talk about knowing what you want and knowing what you need, what is the roadblock to people being able to grasp that from your perspective?

 

Vince Gauglione 20:29  

Well, I think that we have a lot of noise. That’s the problem. There’s there’s certainly a lot of noise in society, right? So we’re constantly distracted in a number of different ways. And you know, if we’re always dealing with distractions, then we really don’t take the time out to just sit with ourselves and understand our emotion. I could read a one story for you where I was actually at an event all singles and it was just a little get together at a restaurant. At one point. A number of is hurt. Like the familiar audio audible game of a phone, right? And then it was, it was odd that about eight people all look down at their phones at the same time. And they stopped talking and they started texting. And it was only after a few minutes did the rest of us realize all eight of those people were in the same group chat. So they had stopped doing what they were doing to participate in the group chat, when the purpose of them being there was to be exposed to other singles. See what I mean? That’s what we’re dealing with today.

 

Damona  21:35  

We are consumed by the virtual world. And like I said this, I said this a few weeks ago on the show, that we are also so desperate to escape the reality that we’re in. We’re almost waiting for that ding. We’re waiting like we’re on a date. And we’re like, this is so uncomfortable. Because it is I mean, you’ve listened to the show for long enough to know like, I don’t sugarcoat it. Like datings awkward, it’s odd. We created it. It is a it’s a skill set that is learned it is something that is not part of, you know, natural courtship. Really. It’s, it’s created. And so that feeling of wanting to escape the day, when you have your phone nearby, it’s so easy to just jump into that other word world and that other other. You know that conversation. So how do how do you recommend people move into dating? in a way that’s more mindful, like we talked about mindfulness, getting clear before you date, but when you’re on the date, how do you stay in the moment there?

 

Vince Gauglione 22:45  

The thing to remember is you want to be present, right? You want to be an active participant in terms of listening and actually, you know, comprehending what the other person is saying. And of course, you know, if we’re talking about technology, The phone has to be on silent. I mean, you have to have that phone on silent. You can’t have a dinging all the time. While you’re having this conversation while you’re on the state. It’s just, I think it’s just, you know, just really inappropriate. When I would go on dates, it would just be phone goes on silent and it’s turned, you know, flat face down on the table.

 

Damona  23:22  

I would I would even add like, yeah, if you can put it away away. Because I mentioned Yeah, I mentioned on the show a while back, there was a study with cell phones and how having the cell phone in view on a in a meeting and not even on a date, but just in view, when two strangers were meeting, it made them feel mistrustful of the other person, even if the phone is off, and and if it was on, it was just on the table. You also talked about connecting meaningfully and one part of that being vulnerability. I get it from men sometimes, especially for men and for women too. But especially for men, that’s really hard. How’d you get to that place? It is,

 

Vince Gauglione 24:08  

it’s kind of funny because you have a friend and opposite sex female. And we were we would always talk about dating and dates. And she said to me one time, she said, you know, you’ve got the problem that a lot of women have, they get the emotionally unavailable guys, how is it that this is happening to you? So I, you know, getting you know, a lot of emotionally unavailable women.

 

Damona  24:32  

What does that look like the emotionally unavailable woman? How is that showing up for you?

 

Vince Gauglione 24:37  

Well, for me, it was showing up in terms of what if we’re talking and we are talking about vulnerability is like the inability to get close to keep you at arm’s length. If I would ask questions. You know, we’re talking about something that maybe hit a little bit close to home or was, you know, required some vulnerability I would get, you know, very glossed over type of answers or would not be able to even get that person to open up to speak a little bit about what they might be feeling, or what they might be thinking. We’ve become so emotionally disconnected from ourselves and from others, you know, you can, you can kind of zip into that virtual world anytime you want and feel perfectly happy and content. But what that’s done in, in effect, it’s kind of taken us away from understanding, you know, just our own nature, and how we connect in real life with people.

 

Damona  25:33  

Yeah, it sounds like you’ve been on you’ve been on a long journey of self discovery,

 

Vince Gauglione 25:39  

and many ups and downs along the way.

 

Damona  25:42  

Yeah. And I know like you came into this. If you if you don’t mind me sharing at the beginning of the book you talk about Yeah, and in 2012, you were in a serious relationship and you actually lost your partner, to suicide and for many people, That would be so devastating that I’m sure it would be hard to believe in love again, but it’s clear from talking to you, you do still believe that this is possible. What gives you that kind of faith? And how did you? How did you heal from such a devastating loss?

 

Vince Gauglione 26:16  

Yeah, that was a long journey. I’m not gonna lie, you know, and I’ve written about it in previous works. It is something that, you know, at the time for me, I was 42. So I didn’t expect that right. None of us really do it at the age of 42 that we’re going to lose, you know, someone close to us. And it took about two and a half years, almost two and a half years to fully reconcile it. So, but, you know, I, what I had done was I’ve taken in the good things away from it. So it’s like, I understood that it was a very loving, mutually, you know, caring relationship that we had and, you know, sure. It’s, it’s tough to find Those types of relationships as we go through life, you know, we might experience it once or twice a few times, but they don’t come around all that often. So, you know, when it does, I’ve learned to, you know, to cherish it more and to and to, to foster it more than I had in the past. Because for a while I had beaten myself up at times thinking I didn’t give enough or maybe I didn’t, you know, do enough. Or maybe I took it for granted. And, you know, having that experience now, and at this point in my life, I understand, you know, what, how special and how precious that actually is?

 

Damona  27:37  

How do you know when you’re sitting across from someone, my listeners are always asking like, well, I’m going on a lot of dates, but is this person the one I don’t know? Is this meant to be something serious? How can you tell?

 

Vince Gauglione 27:52  

Well, that happens over time. I mean, really, the only thing that we can point to here is time you have to give it time. Right. So if it’s someone who shares you know, your, your core values, right, if it’s someone who you have a, a, an ability to connect with and be vulnerable with, then it’s certainly worth exploring and continuing to explore. It’s not like it’s an on off switch where you can say, I know this one’s the right one, or this one’s not the right one. We kind of know more, you know, just as, as human beings, we know more about the things that we really don’t like or don’t want. So when we see those, they’re easy to identify. But the ones that are worthwhile, you know, that takes a little bit longer to figure out. So I would say if you’re, you know, if you’re, you’re, you’re cross sitting across from one that has the same core values, you want the same things or similar things and like, you have a vision of your life and the others, you know, that vision lines up and maps You’re on the right track.

 

Damona  29:02  

Okay, I’m going to ask you a few rapid fire questions for the ladies, a lot of our listeners are women that are dating. And would love to date an awesome guy like you? What are they doing wrong? What is your number one pet peeve that women do on? Let’s start with dating apps? Okay, what’s your biggest dating app? pet peeve?

 

Vince Gauglione 29:29  

Well, when it comes to dating apps, I think, of course, we can talk about like, their search criteria, and they they look for, you know, everything has to be in line, anything and that’s, I think that’s true of actually both sexes. So if you see something in a profile, that’s, you know, a turnoff, right? And you have all these other positives, but then you see this one thing you’re likely to say, Okay, well, I don’t like that. So I’m going to just, you know, swipe left. I think that’s the biggest problem. We have with with online dating right now is that, you know, we’re not able to put that into perspective, of course, we don’t gain a clear picture of who that person is. And it’s very hard to, you know, to write a profile that, you know, presents your, you know, who you are as a person, you know, realistically, along with, you know, giving someone a sense an idea of your values as well. So, yeah, we’re just too quick to move on from profile to profile. Are there syndrome as well?

 

Damona  30:33  

Yeah. Are there messaging behaviors that really frustrate you like, I’ll give you one example just for the guys. Like, I was working with a client who was on hinge and on hinge you have to engage with a particular picture or something that’s, that’s posted in the profile. You can’t just like swipe, swipe, swipe dm, so you have to send a message His strategy was like, I’ll just send like, these, this string, same string of emojis like a heart emoji and like, strong arm emoji, and like, right emojis worth his way of getting into the conversation. And because he was a very attractive guy, he kind of was relying on the fact that then they’re going to look at his profile and be like, Oh, he’s cute, and just get into the chat from there. But I was like, not great dating strategy. Because you’re not, you’re not actually like you were saying, finding someone who connects with you. On a values level on a deeper level. You can’t determine anything from having an emoji conversation. So that’s my guys. What’s your girl’s pet peeve?

 

Vince Gauglione 31:45  

Well, it’s similar similar things. You know, when it comes to actual messaging, well, if everything is in shorthand, you know, I mean, I write in complete sentences. I know that takes a while, but I write in earthly sentences. So he Yeah, exactly. And you know, so and i don’t i can’t really decipher some of the shorthand as well. So or if it’s like a text Blitz, where you get 500 messages in one shot, and there’s like, hey, do I have to respond to all these? How can I condense this down? Right? So I think it’s back and forth, you know, send a message, you get a message back, ask a question, wait for a reply. You know, don’t fall into the trap of, you know, having to send send, send, send, send, and then immediately, send, send, send again, let’s, let’s have a little back and forth here. Let’s have a real conversation as best as we’re going to have over text or I am,

 

Damona  32:40  

huh, what about first date? first date? pet peeves are first date tips for the ladies.

 

Vince Gauglione 32:47  

Well, being engaged, and I mean, that’s something that I look for, you know, someone who you can tell when someone is not engaged, if they’re distracted, or they just seem like you know, they they’re not having a good time or They are they don’t seem present. They’re not really engaged in the conversation. So if I have to carry the conversation, then I kind of know I kind of get a sense Well, I don’t think this person is really is really into me. So that’s important. Stay engaged, ask questions, let the conversation flow. Don’t have an agenda. You know, I think it’s another big one. You’re kind of when people are looking for things they want to check off list. What do you do? bla bla bla bla, that line of questioning. We’ve all heard that line of questioning before. As the conversation continues, you know, you will find things if you’re connecting with that person, you will find things to discuss something will resonate with you and the other person we there’ll be pulled in like, oh, tell me more about that. Or here’s my take on this. You have to let the conversation just devolve and flow on its own. You can’t try to force it.

 

Damona  33:59  

Yeah. Absolutely. And like I said earlier, dating is a learned skill. So the more you do it and the more you figure out what works for you and and build on your conversation techniques, the easier that experience is going to be for you. Before you go, I just I want to ask about, we’re recording this while most of us are in the middle of a quarantine lockdown, safer at home, whatever you want to call it. And so the world of dating has changed. How has that impacted dating for you? And what do you think will be the next phase of dating when we come out of the world of quarantine?

 

Vince Gauglione 34:45  

Hmm. Okay, well, I have a little disclaimer here in that around the time I had finished the draft of this book, I did meet someone that I am currently dating so I haven’t actually dating in the game, so to speak.

 

Damona  35:00  

quarantined together?

 

Vince Gauglione 35:03  

For the most part,

 

Damona  35:04  

yes. Oh, that’s a whole other. That’s a whole other show. Maybe we’ll have you back for that. Right? What but what are you hearing from from readers? And

 

Vince Gauglione 35:13  

yeah, people, it’s really, it’s not easy, because you don’t have a chance to get to those face to faces, right? So when you’re talking about having these conversations, right, you want to be able to at least this, you know, right now this present situation we’re in, you want to still be able to have that natural progression where you go from, you know, an initial interest, you know, contact contacting each other to, you know, some texting, phone calls are great. And then of course, now we have the whole you know, video chatting, facetiming zoom calls, etc. But it’s still it’s still a progression, you can start to build something during this time. However, as we know, it’s like where the rubber really, you know, meets the road is when you have that face to face. So you know that it may we might be in a situation where you might be, you know, speaking to a couple different people, and you might, you know, begin to form a connection, almost like a you know, like the love is blind series, right? Yeah, it’s similar. It’s not exactly the same, because you can see that person. But, you know, at least you can focus on understanding more about another person, then you would, you know, you would have done say previously before all of this because a lot of this, you know, before COVID-19 was, you’re on an app, you said, you match, you send a message, and then you’re already meeting thus, you know, you know nothing about the person and thus the reason for bad dates, you don’t have anything in common with that person. So it forces us to take more time to get to know others or a little bit of a deeper level.

 

Damona  37:00  

Yes, I think ultimately it will be good. But yes, some of those, some of those quarantine connections won’t last but we’re going to learn a lot in the process. And I’ve learned a lot from talking to you today, Vince, I hope everyone will pick up their copy of Why are you still single and average Joe’s take on what’s really going on in the dating pool and what you can do to stay afloat. Thank you so much for joining me, Vince Gagliano. It’s been a pleasure having you on the show. And again, thank you for your years of listening. Maybe it’s paying off in a new relationship. I wish you luck

 

Vince Gauglione 37:34  

with that, too. Thank you so much. I appreciate it was great being on the show.

 

Damona  37:38  

Thank you, Vince.

 

We’re back and your questions have been flooding in lately. Y’all must be really going through it. But I’m here for you. My DMS are always open and they’re especially open Right now for both dates and mates questions, NPR questions and drumroll please. Here’s the big announcement as of this weekend, also for a new advice column that I’m writing in the LA Times. So check out this Saturday’s issue of the LA Times to read my Coronavirus, dating and relationship advice. But remember, it all started here with you and me and your love questions on dates and mates. And here I will remain. Alright, here’s the lineup for today. I got an audio question from our listener Jacqueline. Here’s what she had to say.

 

Vince Gauglione 38:40  

What do you recommend for someone who’s looking to create a profile during this COVID pandemic period and salons and businesses are closed so one can have a makeover done? Is it okay to do the best you can with what you have with items at home such as box hair color, one’s own makeup and an iPhone. I’m would be curious as to your thoughts on this.

 

Damona  39:06  

All right, Jacqueline. First of all, you just got to do it. You just got to get out there and start. One of the things that makes it so hard for us to get back into the dating scene is we play out all these what if scenarios, what if I put up a profile and nobody messages me? What if I meet someone, and I do fall in love, and then I can’t meet them. And because we are afraid of all the different outcomes, we’re afraid of success and failure actually, that fear keeps us from action. And the only way to really get that valuable feedback on your profile. You’ve heard me talk on the show before about how your profile is a living document. And it will change and evolve as you change and evolve. But the only way to really know if your profile is working or not, is to put it out there, put it out into the world and see what happens. So if you haven’t done the profile starter kit, it is Free a dates and mates.com that can at least get you started and get you on an app. Any app, people always ask me what’s the best app, the best app is the one that gets you started and just see the feedback that you get. And this is kind of a low pressure time right now. Because we don’t know when we might actually be able to meet up again. In many places I’m in California, I mean, we gonna be locked down until like December it sounds like but wherever you are, you are going to be starting at least the beginning of the relationship virtually so it’s kind of low pressure right low presh just start Jacqueline and girl Don’t even worry about the nail salons and the the hair salons. I mean, I’m going through my own experience. My daughter was nice enough to point out my gray hairs to me, thank you very much today. But besides that one most people Men Jacqueline prefer lighter makeup they prefer a more natural look. Somehow we look at Instagram we think like, oh, Kylie looks great. We need to slather our face with makeup so that we can look like that with all the filters and and be a an unrealistic, unattainable vision of beauty. But it’s crazy because that’s not actually what most people are attracted to most people want the real thing. So I would say just be your authentic self. But just to give you a little peace of mind, remember we are putting our best foot forward on the first date. And if you haven’t heard my video training, on video chat dating, it is in our Patreon community patreon.com slash Jason mates Of course always in the show notes. But if you haven’t gotten there yet, I’ll just give you a reminder that on a video chat date not everything is on camera. I hope Jacqueline Not everything is on camera. So just worry about the parts that are actually going to be seen. Don’t worry so much about having everything in your house look perfect, and having every hair on your head in place. Just make sure look, you don’t even have to wear pants if you don’t want to.

 

Because if it’s not going to be seen, maybe it doesn’t matter if it makes you feel sexier. Don’t wear pants, just make sure you’re not moving around a lot and keep your phone propped up on the desk. That aside, you just want to be your authentic self in the end. So think about what’s going to be on camera, make sure that you know what that looks like. And then you might even want to try depending on the platform that you’re on. Taking the camera off yourself. It’s it can take a lot of the stress off of like staring at one at yourself while also trying to focus on the person in front of you. I wish you lots of luck, Jacqueline, and I can’t wait to hear about the virtual dates that you have coming up. One more question for today. This one came to me on Facebook. Young lady says a guy and I matched on Bumble prior to all of this happening, but we never got the chance to meet up. We have facetimed twice. First time was two hours. She says that’s pretty long for first time meetup. And we text and Instagram every day finding it hard now that it’s almost two months in to keep this conversation going beyond the daily Groundhog Day happenings. She means like the Hey, what’s up? How’s your day? How’s your day? We’re having the same conversation over and over again. Incidentally, I don’t know if you know, I just watched that movie. It was just maybe it was like on cable. Maybe that’s what it was on Netflix. I just watched that movie again. So it’s funny that you would reference it. Anyways. She says it’s also hard not to get emotionally invested when you talk daily and you don’t know where the other person stands. Like If they’re talking to other people, and you haven’t even met yet, so what position Are you in to ask any tips for keeping an open mind and things to chat about until we’ve had a chance to meet? So my initial advice is that, y’all, we got to keep it loose right now, we got to keep it loose during during quarantine, because we don’t know how long this is going to last. And your feelings are totally valid. you’re investing in this relationship that might be a fantasy relationship. You may know that, generally on dates and mates, I’ve said, Get offline as quickly as possible, have a few exchanges online. And then you move to a phone call, preferably or a video chat, and then you move to a date. But now we can’t move to a physical date. So you have moved to the facetiming. But all of this text and Instagram every day is giving you these bursts of adrenaline that are building up this person in your mind and what that connection will be when you meet and so that’s why it feels like a little bit of a lag. down because you, you’ve been in it for two months, and you don’t necessarily have anything to show for it. So you got to do one of two things. One, we need to rip the band aid off and find out where this person stands. And this is something that I find it’s so hard for people to do. But it’s so such a relief when you finally do it. If you just are saying like, Hey, I’m really enjoying talking to you in and I’m not really talking to anybody else are you? And then you can find out like really, really get to the bottom of what is that thing that’s eating away at you about this situation? And they might say, Oh, yeah, I’ve been chatting with other people but nothing serious like you or they might say like, Oh, I’m just having fun right now. Or they might say no, I’m absolutely not talking to anybody else. But that gives you information. And information is ultimately your friend. It’s been two months. So in real life, that is a significant amount of time and this is enough time for you to just get a sense of where you stand. What I will say, though, is that you need to FaceTime more than twice before you have that conversation. And this is the same advice I’ve given for long distance dating, you have to almost treat it as if you are dating in real life. And even in real life after two dates, I wouldn’t say necessarily stop dating other people. But you have to figure out what the situation is in the real world. So set up a an actual date, a FaceTime actual date, where you’re doing an activity together. I’m actually writing an article write this right now on this I don’t know if by the time this publishes it will be released or not. But I’m writing an article on 10 home quarantine data ideas, I’ll give you just like a couple of them. You can actually do sip and paint night virtually. You can do a trivia night, do 20 questions gamify the date, make it fun, so it’s not just like sitting there for two hours staring at one another, and then really see what this relationship is. But you have to always keep in the back of your mind that until you meet in person, this is still a fantasy relationship. But you know what? Right now we’re quarantined. Life is tough. Things are serious. Maybe we could all use a little bit more fantasy right now. That’s it for today’s show. It’s number 307 of dates in mates, y’all. I’m on all the socials at damona Hoffman. I love your questions. I really want to hear from you. So please let me know what’s on your mind. You can send me a question for this show. You can send me a question for NPR. It’s been a minute with Sam Sanders, or send me a question for the la times maybe for all three. You can do this so easily just by giving me a call. leave me a voicemail at 424-246-6255 or shoot me an email Dimona at damona Hoffman calm you can just record a voice memo on your phone or email it over to me and you could be on NPR or on a future episode of dates and dates, just like Jacqueline. Thank you so much for listening. And by the way, if you’re ready to go deeper with me and you want access to that video chat dating training that I talked about earlier, or any other resources inside of our private community, I want to invite you inside the community, you can join me@patreon.com, slash dates and mates, it’s only five bucks a month. So I think that’s a small price to pay for an intimate relationship with me and the other dates and mates community members that’s patreon.com slash dates and mates. Do check the show notes for all the links that I discussed on today’s show. And for a cute little recap, with lovely gifts that producer Leo is top top notch at providing for us to help bring the dates and made show to life. Thank you so much for listening. Until next week, I wish you happy virtual dating

Dating During Coronavirus & Healing Powers

LOVE IN THE TIME OF CORONAVIRUS

The Coronavirus panic is spreading and the world needs some healing right now. Today we’re using our intuition to heal our love lives as well as learning some ways to continue dating during this time.

This is an uncertain time but love conquers all. 

Even though we are in the midst of social distancing, the tools that we have available now could still help you lay the foundation for a future relationship. 

Today’s co-host is Clarissa Silva, love coach, behavioral scientist, and former infectious disease specialist. She’s the most qualified person I know to tell us why love is not lost during this time.

Our co-host for today is Clarissa Silva, Behavioral Scientist and Clinician. She is the creator of “Your Happiness Hypothesis Method” which helps people understand their relationship patterns and gives them a roadmap to romance.

This revolutionary approach is based on an algorithm she created and used to meet her husband.

She was trained as a scientist and researcher at the University of Michigan where she received the prestigious National Institutes of Health Ford/Fogarty fellowship. 

You’ve seen her on Fox, NBC, HuffPost, ABC, CBS, and so much more!

DATING DISH (2:00)

Love in Time of Coronavirus

Coronavirus is a HUGE issue right now. As the world ventures into various states of quarantine, we at Dates & Mates are wondering: what about love?

Clarissa walks us through the latest trends in dating during quarantine.

via GIPHY

What You Can Learn From Love Is Blind

Unless you’ve been living under a rock for the last few months, you know that Netflix’s latest love reality show is sweeping the nation. Have they ACTUALLY solved all modern dating dilemmas?

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HEALING POWERS (10:00)

We are still finding Love in Times of Coronavirus, people!

Now, since you may have a little more time on your hands here’s an exercise I want you to try: visualize how your ideal mate will make you feel when you’re around them.

Imagine waking up on a lazy Sunday with the love of your life. What is your gut feeling when you’re with them?

It’s hard to put into words, right? But it’s something a lot of people overlook when they’re dating with intention. Even if your ideal match is perfect on paper, they can’t be the right fit if it just doesn’t feel like home.

Cheesy? Maybe. True? Without a doubt.

Enter my guest for today: Laura Powers, celebrity psychic and host of the Healing Powers Podcast. She teaches how to tap into your intuition and find that “feeling” you’re looking for. 

Laura covers:

  • Understanding what you bring to a relationship
  • How to read the feeling and energy you get from your date
  • How to use intuition to break your bad dating patterns
  • and so much more!

Make sure to check out Laura Powers’ “Healing Powers Podcast”!

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TECHNICALLY DATING (34:49)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • IG – I’ve been dating this attractive, successful guy for about 3 months. He’s dealing with some family drama and has been asked to help out with his grandma as well as financially support his parents which has been emotionally weighing on him. He has opened up about all of this to me and he’s said that he doesn’t think he can take being in a relationship right now. Right now we talk daily and hang out 1-2 times a week. I’m happy with how things are but worried that 6 or 9 months down the line, nothing will change and he won’t commit to me. He knows I want to be married and have kids which may be why he’s bringing this up now versus later. Any thoughts?
  • Patreon: Is it good or bad if you hold out from going all the way?

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WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:12  

Modern love Made Simple. This is dates and mates with damona Hoffman. Hello lovers Welcome to dates and mates. Today we have two very special experts joining me. My guest for today is Laura powers. She’s the host of the healing powers podcast, and she’ll be talking with us about how using intuition can impact your love life. But first, let me introduce my guest co host for today. Clarissa Silva. She’s a behavioral scientist and clinician and the creator of the your happiness hypothesis method which helps people understand their relationship patterns and gives them a roadmap to romance. This revolutionary approach is based on an algorithm that she created and then used to meet her husband She was trained as a scientist and researcher at the University of Michigan. And you’ve seen her on Fox and on NBC, huffpost, ABC, CBS, and so much more. Let’s give big smooches to Clarissa Silva.

Clarissa Silva  1:14  

Oh, thank you, Tamara. I’m so honored to be here in such a pleasure to be on your show again. Welcome back

Damona  1:20  

with Clarissa, we’re going to discuss this week’s news like how is coronavirus affecting dating? Sorry, not sorry. We got to talk about it, y’all. And what can we learn about romance from the hit TV show? Love is blind. Then after our interview with amazing Laura powers, Clarissa and I will be answering your questions in technically dating, like, how long should you hold on if a guy isn’t ready to commit yet? And is it good or bad to withhold sex from a guy you’re dating?

Clarissa Silva  1:52  

Clarissa Are you ready to do these headlines? Yes, I’m excited. These dating dish

Damona  2:00  

Well, I was excited to read on thrive global, which you have written for for a while, but you give this different perspective on dating and relationships with your background as a behavioral scientist and you’re Clarissa wrote this article on coronavirus and dating that you have to read. So this is going to be our jumping off point for the conversation today because the article which was written last week, looked at the the the behaviors of people right now, dating in the time love in the time of coronavirus, and according to the experts that she spoke to including Michael Kay who’s Okay, Cupid’s global communications manager he is saying that everything is like all systems go and 88% of people that they surveyed were like, No, I’m not stopping dating just because of Corona virus. Clarissa I am curious to hear first of all, do you think That anything has changed in the last week, I’m feeling an increase in anxiety. But are you seeing people still looking to date and connect face to face right now?

Clarissa Silva  3:11  

Hi, everyone. Thank you. I’m a former infectious disease specialist. So everything that I am looking at this from the lens of epidemic, this is just like anything else. I mean, we lived through HIV and it was the same thing you were told you couldn’t touch, hug, do all the stuff. And we lived through that right but as we go through heftier quarantine periods, it’d be interesting to see like, how much how much in real life connection Are you going to be doing? Right? I still say that video communication will be the primary vehicle of how people will continue to date.

Damona  3:46  

Yeah, it’s interesting how that that drive for love is really so strong. I actually talked about video chat dating last week on our masterclass or 300th episode. I said, for those of you who haven’t heard it, I said Mark my words, we’re going to see an increase in video chat dating, and that’s going to become now the primary pre date filter that you’ll be going through. Now this was all before the quarantines and before like, we record this before that even happened, I believe that this is going to accelerate the use of that being a commonplace replacement for the phone call. And people have heard me say on the show before, I have not been a big fan of video chat dating before, but I believe that’s the direction that we’re heading in because we are craving authenticity. And I think we have missed that crucial step of the pre connection before you go out on the date. That’s why we have so much ghosting. But now we when we layer it with also, meeting face to face could mean risking your life. I think that video chat date becomes even more crucial. Do you see people using it as a Still a primary filter? Or do you see people maintaining long term relationships over video chat before they ever even meet in person.

Clarissa Silva  5:10  

So that was one that was one of my main drivers of talking to the vet DJ. NET local for love. So local for love is, is built on the premise that hey, this could cut cut the BS and dating have a video chat as your first date. Right so when I asked Vivek Jane Have you seen an increase and he was like yeah over 60% increase as occurred think of the worst case scenario. So the people that are going to go crazy, like the extroverts, right that needs like now you know, not be contained to their space or have some kind of entertainment video format does relieve some of that anxiety. So I think greater use of video and hopefully maybe they transition to to life. You actually mentioned in the article, a quote about people who are staying home and binge Netflix are still matching people online. So that brings me to our second topic for today’s dating dish. The Netflix hit reality show love is blind. I’ve been asked for for,

Damona  6:11  

for quotes from so many different outlets about love is blind. It feels like it’s all that’s in my social media timeline other than coronavirus. So everyone is talking about love is blind. What I’m interested in as a dating and relationship coach is what we can learn from love is blind. And I know you you’ve seen the show as well. Right, Clarissa Yeah. Okay, I find this fascinating and spoiler alert for anyone who has not seen the show yet because all the episodes are now released. So it’s fair game for me to talk about the results. But overall, there are 15 women 15 men, six proposals, right six or was it Seven, six or six? proposals, six proposals, ultimately, two marriages that are still together today. And it makes you wonder what it what was the secret special sauce in those pods where they couldn’t see one another and they could only date through hearing one another’s voice. What do you think that was as a behavioral scientist that bonded those people in a way that they were able to build a relationship apart from even the physical connection? I mean, some of them saw each other in person and then weren’t able to really build the physical connection over time. But to the two out of two couples out of 15 potential couples is a pretty good batting average once you say.

Clarissa Silva  7:47  

Well, I the only criticism that I have is that I think the show took took the concept a little too literally, right? Yes. Like there are aspects of love that are completely irrational, and that defy logic. Right? That’s, that’s what makes this this emotion so interesting as a sciences, right? If you notice all like majority of, of the couples, the ones that finally hit that final round, but all of them were connecting on like a very emotional level,

Damona  8:22  

right? For the two couples that well there’s three couples still together but two couples that were married, what can we learn from their experience in the pods? And, you know, as a reality producer, I thought there should have been more of the conversation in the pods. I felt like I don’t really know the people. But that aside, that aside, something was happening in those pods that really made them feel bonded enough to one another that they would propose sight unseen to spend the rest of their lives with another person. So what can we take from that? And what can we apply to our own dating experience to ask the kind of questions have the kind of experience that they had in the pods and recreate that in our dating life?

Clarissa Silva  9:06  

Well see, I think part of this experiment is that we have to remember that these these were people that were of a mindset, right. So with my clients, probably 80% of them are already marriage minded or long term commitment minded. So to get on the show, you had to agree to go through a real marriage ceremony whether you know what I mean, like, so you already had to want and desire marriage long term, right?

Damona  9:36  

So it’s intent. You’re saying intent was the secret sauce of the of this particular of this particular experiment that that was the primary filter. Right? Right. I should have learned something from talking to you. And I know you, you have a lot more insight to share with us. So those are the headlines of the week, but we’re going to be taking a different direction. Talking to Laura powers after the break about how you can use intuition to guide your love life. Stick around. We’re here with Laura powers. She is an entertainer, author and celebrity psychic. She also hosts the healing powers podcasts, get it powers powers, she’s going to share some of her powers with us. You may have seen her before in BuzzFeed or on NBC, ABC, CBS or Fox she also was recently interviewed by Will Ferrell on his podcast, the Ron Burgundy podcast, so please help me give big smooches to Laura powers. Thanks so much for having me today. I am excited to get into these powers to like unite powers with you. And I know in on your show, it does tap into your work as a celebrity psychic, but you also talk a lot about health and wellness and the way that different aspects of your life impact other systems. Do people are listening to the show because they want love and you’ve kind of been through this journey yourself to have of needing to address health before love could come your way? Yeah, so

Laura Powers  11:14  

our spiritual health and what we can have in our life, our intuition, they’re all really connected. So I feel like we can’t really silo things. So sometimes when people come to me and they’re looking for help with love, it’ll come up Wow, we need to work on your work life balance or your health or something else. Anything that is bringing your energy down will also impact what you can allow and receive in other areas.

Damona  11:37  

Okay, so let’s break that down for people because I know there are some folks that are listening that are like, I’m good. I have a great job. I work out all the time. And the only thing that is not flowing for me is my love life. And they may call a celebrity psychic powers and say, what’s going on for me in love? What would you first have them do to kind of tune in into different areas of their of their wellness and Life Center.

Laura Powers   12:04  

Well, first thing I do is look at them in particular to see what’s going on, because everyone has a different kind of karmic path and different things that are going on. But a lot of times there’s something in our life that maybe we’re not aware of, maybe we have some boundaries that are not being honored. And when that happens, it’s like sending a mixed message to the universe. So if we’re saying we want one thing, but then another life area, we’re accepting something different, it can basically send a message to universe like, what I want doesn’t really matter.

Damona  12:32  

Okay, so you’re saying, if you are you said accepting something, like, let’s give an example. You are at work? Yeah. And you are always the person that they go to? Because you’re always available and you’re always taking on town. Exactly. You’re feeling overwhelmed. Yeah. Is that what

Laura Powers   12:54  

you mean? Exactly. That could be one or maybe you have like a really needy friend. You’re always rescuing or

Laura Powers   13:00  

You know, girls, you know, and

Laura Powers  13:02  

yeah, or maybe you are not taking time for self care, maybe you go to the gym but you’re not giving yourself kind of loving, nurturing energy. If you don’t give that energy to yourself, you’re basically kind of rejecting it and not sending the message to the universe that you want that loving, positive nurturing energy, and then it’ll be hard for you to receive it from someone else as well.

Damona  13:23  

And I know you do this when you’re working with clients, you can assess and, and do a scan of what’s happening in different areas of their life different, probably different chakras different messages that you get. I know everyone at home is going, how could I start to do this myself? Is there a way that you can train your clients to get so far on their own before they come to you?

Clarissa Silva  13:49  

Absolutely. So I actually do a lot of training. I teach classes, group classes, and then I do one on one training. Certainly learning to tap intuition and understand whatever your gifts are is really important because you know, if you’re a clairvoyant if you’re an empath, and clairvoyant means seeing an empath is someone who feels energies and emotions from outside their body. So for empaths, it is super, super important to really get an understanding what’s theirs and what’s not theirs. Oh, yeah,

Damona  14:13  

not I have been through that. Yeah, I’m an empath as well.

Laura Powers   14:16  

Yeah. And

Damona  14:18  

sometimes, you know, I’ll go into a situation where I’ll go into a new space. And I’ll just feel really overwhelmed. And I’m like, what’s going on? Like, I don’t know why all of a sudden, my heart’s beating fast. And I. And, you know, I’ve done some of this psychic development work too, and getting in touch with, where’s that message coming from and sometimes, like you might sit across from a date, and you feel this energy from them and you don’t know why, like on paper, they seem really great, but you don’t know why. And I really have my clients get into the feeling of being with someone new and what does it feel like when you’re with them? Because that will that will unlock a lot of information for you. Oh

Laura Powers   14:58  

my gosh, I’m so glad you brought that Because I think this is true for everyone, but it’s especially true if you’re an empath, if you have that kind of sensitivity. So one of the things that happened with me is I attracted a lot of like very, I would say, successful in terms of societal kind of norms. narcissism in talking about, like, really wealthy men very successful, and then I’d be around them. And I was like, wow, I feel so insecure like, and I used to think when it first happened, I was like, Oh, I just feel insecure because they have so much and I don’t know, but what I realized after a period of time was that I was actually as an empath. They were really insecure as a person and I was picking up on that. So that’s, that’s something to pay attention to. When you’re around someone, how do you feel when you’re around them? If you’re an empath, it’s very likely that you’re feeling what they’re feeling and if you don’t feel good for whatever reason, then it’s probably not a great situation. Do you believe that

Damona  15:57  

everyone has an element of psychic ability or empathy. I mean, yeah, everyone has empathy, but empathy on that sort of level,

Laura Powers   16:05  

not everyone does have empathy, actually, I mean, I think it’s kind of a shock to a lot of people, but I think it’s definitely a range and that, you know, kind of from zero to 100, or whatever. And I would say everyone has a little something. But what that is, varies greatly. And also, we don’t have any kind of psychic training in our society automatically. Like you don’t when you’re a kid, you don’t learn your psychic. ABCs. Yeah, that’s, you know, and

Damona  16:33  

they’ll say, like, trust your gut.

Laura Powers   16:35  

Yeah,

Damona  16:35  

but no, but nobody really knows what that means.

Laura Powers   16:38  

Exactly. No one knows no one has learning. You know, there’s no learning system where people can access that. And I found, for example, when I teach classes and do trainings, it’s amazing to me how many people will come in and they’ll be like, well, I’m just kind of curious. I just wanna explore and then we start doing some psychic exercises. I’m like, Oh my gosh, you are super psychic, but they’ve literally just never practiced it. So I think a lot of people have that. And even just having a few psychic tools can really help. And I was telling you before we started the interview that one of the reasons I got psychic training was because I had a horrible divorce. And I basically was like, I don’t want to ever go through that again. So I got training, I started to look at the guys that I was considering dating,

Laura Powers   17:19  

to try to get a better sense of what was really going on.

Laura Powers   17:21  

Right? Well, that’s,

Damona  17:23  

that’s a high level skill set that you that you’ve developed, but even at the beginning, just assessing what what you have attracted before. I mean, that’s, that’s so much of this process is like and that’s why I begin every program that I do with mindset. Yeah, and with with assessing like who you are, what you want, what have you attracted in the past? What are your patterns? What are your predominant thoughts because also, like there’s a lot that a lot of work that I’ve had to do in reducing the chatter we all have that that inner critic that chatter in our brains and that really blocks Any psychic ability for me any tuning in?

Laura Powers   18:02  

And I think a lot of times it’s actually connected with your psychic ability. That chatter is actually different beings talking with you.

Damona  18:08  

Sometimes Yes. But like that inner voice that is like talking you out of things. Yeah, judging things. Like a lot of my clients will will come to me, I’ll say, What is your What? What’s your love mantra right now? And a lot of times they’ll say to me before I even ask like, well, there’s no single guys in my city. Well, all the women that I date or after my money, and then the more that you repeat that thought, the more that thought becomes your reality. And then the more you’re attracting, it’s kind of like what you were saying before. Then you start attracting, you attract what you don’t want, because the message is just amplified.

Laura Powers   18:49  

Yeah, completely. I agree that we definitely have our own thoughts, but I believe most people are actually basically picking up on thought forms ideas from others. other beings could be other humans could be non human entities. So just like they’re beings of the light, you know, I believe in angels, they’re helpful they will send you positive messages, but there are non helpful beings that will also share negative thoughts. I think of them as like energy parasites, and they will, you know, feed on fear, anxiety, stress, pain, anger, etc. And they will go wherever there’s food, so if we have a lot of negative mind talk, that they are kind of feeding us and they just keep kind of keep that going. Yeah, eat on it. Yeah, that’s

Damona  19:34  

true. We don’t want that know, from happening. One thing we haven’t talked about before on the show, and that is something I know you’ve addressed, is past lives. And this is like this is such a, you know, we’re playing on today’s show and looking at what is possible and and so many there’s so many theories of like the love that you attract is somewhere That you have had a history with in the past? I don’t know, I’ll just be like, totally upfront, even as someone that believes in a lot of these things I literally do not know on past lives. But I’ve had a lot of funny coinkidink What is your feeling on past lives?

Laura Powers   20:15  

Yeah, I think most of us here have had quite a few lives. And a lot of times when we have some kind of close relationship with someone, it’s it’s very likely that we’ve had past lives with that person. So whether it’s a parent or a spouse or a child, and we are helping each other learn various lessons, and we learn a lesson two degrees. So let’s say this is something came up with a client where she came in and she was having a hard time in her marriage and didn’t feel comfortable. And when I looked at their past lives, she had been the slave of her. Oh, my husband in a past life. Yeah, yeah. So you know it. I looked at her psychically and so she was basically she was wearing a color and like, you Kind of at his beck and call. And it was like when I like the passive was like No wonder, like her lesson was to have stronger boundaries and do what she wanted and not just, you know, do someone else as well have her own sense of power. And just helping her understand that she cried during the session. And she felt this relief but also helps confirm for her why she felt this way because she did feel like controlled and disempowered in the relationship. And then just even knowing that sometimes will help you just have comfort and then be better able to move forward instead of a lot of people will have these feelings but they’ll just dismiss it because it’s not

Laura Powers   21:36  

logical.

Damona  21:37  

Yeah, I’m sure a lot of people come to you from the logical

Laura Powers   21:41  

point of view.

Damona  21:43  

How do you get them past that point to see see other perspectives of things that you know, there’s no empirical evidence one way or another about any of this stuff that that you’re talking about? And that and yet, I know you’ve experienced I know I’ve experienced it. I know many of my, my clients, I’ve experienced it too. How do you get people over that hump from like skeptic to believer?

Laura Powers   22:09  

I would say most people that come and work with me are already there. But there are people that are just curious. And I think the best thing is just to be open and then see what resonates. And just see what unfolds. You know, I have one client that came in, and he was just kind of curious, started listening to podcasts. And I could talk about this because he’s talked about it publicly. He was on my podcast, and then he booked a session and in the reading, I said, you’re gonna write a book. And eventually that book is going to be your work and you’re going to tour around the world and, you know, talk about it. And at the time, he was like, I don’t know, then he, you know, a year later wrote the book year later was the bestseller. So just being open and just, just sometimes it’s just this information that comes in and also there is more and more evidence about some of these things. So his book is called an To upside down thinking so if you’re very scientifically minded, that book by Mark Ober is all about the scientific aspect of consciousness, and there’s quite a bit in there that’s specifically talking about psychic abilities and intuition.

Damona  23:12  

Oh, wow, you’ve inspired him. Yeah, you come here. I’m sure. You’ve inspired a lot of people through your work. Thank you. Yeah, that’s my goal. Well, you and you’re doing the healing powers podcast, talk to me a little bit more about that, and about some of the themes that you’ve addressed and that you aim to address going forward that that would be relevant for dates and mates listeners.

Laura Powers   23:36  

Sure. So I think you know, if you’re wanting to improve your love life, whether that’s to find a partner or to improve your relationship, intuition is going to be extremely helpful because it’s basically like the learning the easy way to go. Like what you’re being guided to do is going to help you have less pain and suffering, which I think is ultimately what we all want and and have more love in our lives. And on that podcast, we talk a lot about intuition. Access then then we also talk about the physical aspect because the mechanisms that we are using quite a bit for our intuition and psychic abilities are in the gut, and the heart and the brain. And especially in our society, we have a lot of like gut health issues.

Laura Powers   24:16  

Yeah. Talk to us about Oh, just

Laura Powers   24:18  

eating poor food. Our microbiome is messed up from antibiotics and our immunity and everything is there. Well, what’s bad for the gut is bad for the brain. Like we have the second highest number of neurons in our gut as we do in the brain. So basically, if your digestion is messed up, your brain is messed up. And your brain is where you know, our third eye is and that area is believed to be in the pineal gland. So if you are physically not doing so well in those areas, you are not going to be able to tap into your intuition, which again, is to help you just navigate better in your life and you experience that yourself as well. You are on a

Damona  24:55  

less healthy path. Yeah. Talk to us about your story.

Laura Powers   24:58  

Yeah. And so In my case, I was about 55 pounds heavier than I am now I was on sleeping pills. I was diagnosed as depressed. I had PCs, which is polycystic ovary syndrome. I just I was a real mess and was trying to heal it sort of the sort of standard way I was eating the standard American diet. And like, you know, everything was not bad enough to where I was getting a lot of headway and sort of the traditional way. So I started going some alternative health practitioners and addressing my diet. And once I did that, you know, things started to really shift for me. So I, before you move on, you would also mention you had a marriage that ended was this happening simultaneously. Yeah, so that was all intertwined. It was all intertwined. And, you know, I left my marriage, I mean, some big health changes. I started taking psychic development classes. So that’s why on my podcast, we talked about all of these things together, because I don’t think you can just isolate You know, one area of your life, it’s all connected. So if you have, you know, A major health issue immune disorder, maybe your relationships actually are being that come into, you know, view because I think a lot of people, for example, when they have a chronic health condition, there’s usually some kind of a relational issue that’s at its core.

Damona  26:15  

Oh, wow. That’s deep. That’s deep and and I think also sometimes when you are so consumed with what’s happening in your health issue, or in another area that is not being addressed, then, like, how can you even begin to think about finding love if you are if you don’t feel well, or you are, you’re stressed from you know, work, family, friends, anything, if you’re not addressing those things, then it’s just overwhelming to even think about opening yourself up to love.

Laura Powers   26:51  

Absolutely. And the other thing I’d like to bring in as it relates to love is the importance of following your soul plan or purpose which might seem disconnected from life. But there’s a lot of people when they incarnate they’ve basically decided on a soul level. I am not going to have relationship until I kind of do XYZ.

Laura Powers   27:07  

Hmm.

Damona  27:08  

Wait, I hear this all the time from the guys that listen to the show. Yeah, they’re not ready for a relationship until they get their finances together until they get such so far along in their career, is that what you’re talking about? Or something even

Laura Powers   27:22  

I’m talking about that but maybe not necessarily dark, tied with finances, but your soul’s desire. So let’s say you’re like, Hey, I really want a relationship, but your soul is like, well, until I write that book or I do whatever. I’m not that doors closed. Because maybe on a on a personality level, you know, as a soul that once you get a relationship, all your focus goes on that relationship. True. So I think this is all different from person to person, but these are some of the patterns and things that I see people so just checking in like, what is it that you came here due to so what does that lights you on fire? Are you doing that? Maybe you have a stable Good job. But it’s not your purpose. You’re not excited. It’s not driving passion in you, and then you’ve kind of shut that door down for yourself.

Damona  28:06  

Yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s so true. And you know, the same thing in relationships. Like there may be some people listening right now who are in a relationship that doesn’t really excite them, you know, and it’s sometimes there’s a feeling that it’s easier to stay the course than to go through all of the I don’t want to say the drama or the chaos, but you know, to go through that experience of reorganizing your life. But you’ve done it. You’ve been there. Yeah. Through the tough stuff.

Laura Powers   28:37  

Yeah.

Damona  28:38  

And you were able to rebuild your life in a more, more passion filled way, right.

Laura Powers   28:44  

Yeah. And I do see one pattern that comes up over and over again, is just boundaries and whatever you allow, is what you get more of. So the analogy I give to people is that it’s very much like a Netflix cue, which may sound funny, but like Whatever you watch on Netflix, it kind of suggests other show like here’s, yeah, you know, here’s some other shows like that. And the world is like that. So whenever you’re accepting something, if it’s not what you what you want, say no. Yeah, say no. Because otherwise you’re just gonna keep getting that. And sometimes you, you know, it’s like there’s a memory in the queue. And let’s maybe you haven’t watched a horror movie for a year. But you watched that one A while ago, and it just kind of keeps showing up for a while. Yeah, so you have to say no, for a while sometimes because for fully like, the new thing starts to show up that you want.

Damona  29:31  

Yeah, I feel like my Netflix queue doesn’t even know me. Like, sometimes it suggests things and I’m just like, really, you think that but in a way, like if we use that analogy, sometimes you’ll you’ll get things that you’re just like, how did this even come into my head, especially you know, I talk a lot about dating apps, online dating. And when you’re in that space of swipe, where you really don’t know that much about the person if you’re not Keep queued into your intuition, and you’re just swiping based on looks or something superficial or something. Like, you know, people will tell me Oh, well, he asked to be over six feet like that is my main criteria. Like, what? There’s so many other things that are much more important than that. But if you continue to swipe it, same thing, algorithms, just like Netflix, it will bring you more of the people that you shouldn’t be swiping right on, or that you don’t really have that, that deeper connection with. If you were to advise a client on tapping into intuition for swiping, how would you do it?

Laura Powers   30:38  

Gosh, Well, the first thing I’d say take a look and see what you feel. And then just take a moment pause and like, see what you feel in your body when you think of that person? Mm hmm. Because our bodies tell us so much and most people are just completely ignoring it. Because they don’t understand it. They just don’t even think to do it. But yeah, do you feel excited? Do you feel upset In your stomach, do you feel a sense of dread? Like these are all things that most people are just not even pausing to listen to what their body is telling them. And it’s so important for safety, obviously, with something like, you know, dating where it’s a complete stranger, but also just is this person able to connect with you in the way that you want to?

Damona  31:18  

Yes, in a lot of times, we do get the message, you guys get the message, and then we shut it down. And we say, oh, but I’m gonna give him the benefit of the doubt. Or, well, I don’t really know what if I’ll just go out with him and see when we’ve already heard the message.

Laura Powers   31:37  

Oh, absolutely. I love that. Maya Angelou quote, you know, when someone shows you who they are, believe them, you know, this is the biggest problem. And I think on a deeper level, a lot of this comes from this but there’s a lot especially a lot of women it can happen with men but as I see a lot with women, where they are in the sort of martyr pattern of trying to heal, save or rescue And what I say to anyone is in that pattern is you don’t have to sacrifice yourself to help someone. And if you do, that’s not actually helping. Because I believe the universe is benevolent. And it can be a win win. You can help someone and be good. Yeah, you don’t have to suffer or die. You know, at this point, it’s usually not someone dying, but maybe they’re, they’re sacrificing their emotions, or they’re being treated poorly. And that is a kind of sacrifice.

Damona  32:28  

self sacrifice. Yeah. And you also don’t have to, you don’t have to save everyone. Like I had a bit of a pattern for that before I met my husband, like, I would always attract guys that I thought I could help. And then I was like, I don’t want to date all these guys that, you know, is working as a casting director, like I don’t want to date these actors that need me to help them but at the same time, I would then date these actors and I’d be like, Can I help you? Right? So it’s like you were saying before, like attracting the same thing that you say that you Don’t want. And that’s really not the relationship that you want where you’re, you’re in it to save the other person or to help the other person. Right? It really should be a reciprocal support system for one another. Right?

Laura Powers   33:14  

Absolutely. And if that feels like a driving motivation behind the relationship that I’m saying that that’s not a healthy relationship, and that it’s sometimes the hardest thing is to keep saying no, even when the thing you don’t want isn’t showing up.

Damona  33:28  

Say that again. For me, Laura, because I think that’s really important.

Laura Powers   33:31  

Yeah, it’s sometimes the hardest thing is to keep saying no, even when what you want isn’t showing up. So basically, don’t accept something that isn’t what you want, just because it’s the only thing there because if you keep doing that, the thing you want will never show up because it’s like that,

Damona  33:45  

please. Vain cold. Yes. Yeah, that’s exactly it.

Laura Powers   33:49  

That that is. That’s

Damona  33:51  

the perfect place to end this conversation. Because sometimes there’s this feeling of, well, I don’t want to be alone. So and people say to me, Well, are you telling me I should just settle? No, I’m not telling you to settle. I’m telling you the opposite of settling. I’m telling you to keep that space open until you feel it. Right.

Laura Powers   34:12  

Yeah. And spend that time doing things that bring you passion and joy in other ways. Focus on yourself, you know, improving your life, and then you’ll be in a better place and you’ll automatically attract more of what you’re looking for anyway.

Damona  34:25  

Yes. Well, those are wise words to end this interview on. I am so excited that you were finally able to join me on the show here in LA. And I’m really excited for what’s next with the healing powers podcast. So thank you so much for being here.

Laura Powers   34:39  

Thank you so much for having me. It’s been my pleasure.

Damona  34:42  

We have more dates in May. It’s coming right up, so stick around.

Damona  34:49  

Welcome back to dates and mates.

Damona  34:50  

I am here with my co host, Clarissa Silva. And it’s time to break down your modern dating dilemmas. Clarissa you You know so much about dating from not just the dating coach perspective that I offer, but from a behavioral science perspective and you you have this happiness hypothesis, that tell us a little bit about the half happiness hypothesis and how you’ve how you’ve used that to not only meet your husband, but to help other people.

 

Clarissa Silva  35:20  

So when I was when I was single, and going through dating, I was frustrated and I was using online dating and in real life dating, and I felt like I was completely failing myself. I kept you know, following the same pattern. So then I kind of re engineered a lot of the stuff that I thought was ideal, right? So you you tell yourself, okay, these certain things are, are what you need, then you test it, right? So I was always treating dating like it was a social experiment. So once I put myself through the rigor of Hey, if you if you seriously think that these are the reasons that that your family Right, start start looking at this on a broader scale. So then we started testing out the model. And for two years in a row, we have 97% efficacy, and we reduce anxiety and depression risk and we increase brain health. It’s a decision making model to help you explore based on like five factors of decision making that impede your ability to find love.

 

Damona  36:25  

Well, I know you have a line out the door, people wanting to work with you, but I have a line of people wanting to ask questions. So I’m going to read a couple of them to you and hopefully people can get a little touch of the Clarissa Silva magic. Here’s our first question. This one comes to us from Instagram. She says I’ve been dating this attractive, successful guy for about three months. He’s dealing with some family drama and has asked has been asked to help out his grandma as well as financially support his parents, which has been emotionally weighing on him. He’s opened up about all of this to me. And he said that he doesn’t think he can be in a relationship right now. Right now we talk daily and hang out one to two times a week. And I’m happy with how things are but worried that six or nine months down the line, nothing will change. And he won’t commit to me. He knows I want to be married and have kids, which is, which may be why he’s bringing this up now versus later. Clarissa, is there any hope for this lady on Instagram? Is this a relationship she should be patient with? Or should she cut and run since he said that?

 

Clarissa Silva  37:33  

So there’s only two ways to go about this. He’s already exiting. Right? So I would take that as you’re exiting the relationship, and I don’t think that there is going to be any point where six months, nine months, three days down the line where they’ll evaluate because if they felt like you were part of that whole evaluation, then they wouldn’t let you go because they are going to be confronting different issues that go Grandmother, you know what I mean? And those are not times where people want to be alone.

 

Damona  38:06  

That’s true. I just wonder it’s only been three months. I just wonder if it’s too early. Like if maybe the conversation came out of him feeling pressured? And it’s like, well, if you want me to give you an answer right now, the answer is no. But if, if she continued to be a support system for him, and became someone that was trusted, so that he didn’t want to be alone and didn’t feel judged for having to, you know, contribute to his parents financial well being and help out his grandmother, then maybe he would see you in a different way. But I wonder if it’s just too soon to make a call or to put any kind of ultimatum on a person that essentially you just met?

 

Clarissa Silva  38:45  

Wow. Three months is not a short time. I mean, it is a short time, you know, but it’s enough. It’s enough data for you to know what you know. I mean, like, it’s, that’s enough time for you to figure out which way you feel about a person or which For you.

 

Damona  39:00  

Absolutely. I think the bottom line though is don’t force an outcome.

 

Clarissa Silva  39:03  

Right? To say that absolutely not. And that’s that’s probably what she’s trying to do. But she’s already been exited. So he exited A while ago. But she’s, she’s enamored and wants, wants it.

 

Damona  39:14  

But what do you say to those people? I know there are other listeners that are like, they feel like they’ve been exit exited. But he’s still calling her daily. He they’re still meeting up once or twice a week. So how can she deal with him having exited or opted out of being more serious, but still being in her life?

 

Clarissa Silva  39:36  

Yeah, they’re exited, you’re still you’re helping some optional queue. And that that seems normative to people where you know, it, we would see a difference if people just started saying, well, it’s a mutual exit at this point.

 

Damona  39:53  

I’m not gonna allow this to keep going on top not what I want.

 

Clarissa Silva  39:56  

I draw the line out right people, please. My

 

Damona  40:01  

All right, how about this question? Going kind of a different direction. This one came to us from our new Patreon group, which all of you all can join by going to patreon.com, slash dates and mates if you want to support the show and have more access to get your questions on the show. This person says, Is it good or bad if you hold out from going all the way? And this is from a lady. So withholding sex from someone that you are at the beginning stage of dating? What do you think? Clarissa?

 

Clarissa Silva  40:39  

Good, bad, ugly? Well see, these are the two arguments that are made to me all the time. So we have sex a screener happening amongst certain populations, right? When you when you talk to people that use sex as a screener, they say, Well, I’m not going to be in the game if I don’t have sex with them immediately. Right? And if I hold out the outcome is still the same, right? I’m holding out for whatever timeframe you hold out on. And you still get ghosted, right, like so. So the data point is am I compatible? Is this person going to ghost me? Should I hold off on doing like anything more committal on my ends, and hopefully prevents ghosting, hopefully find a decent person and the end result is ghosting. Anyway. Yeah.

 

Damona  41:28  

So it so the answer is doesn’t really matter. Like you’ve seen it work out if people have sex right away or not, it’s more about the substance of their connection beyond that,

 

Clarissa Silva  41:40  

right? So as long as it doesn’t have any impact on your self esteem, and you’re able to draw clear lines about what people are and what people aren’t in your, in your mind, or you’re getting some actual compatibility data, from the sex of screener then continue to do what you’re doing.

 

Damona  41:58  

Yeah, just to add myself two cents I think, obviously, everything you said is right. But I think also, sometimes now people look at sex as a screener, like you said, like if we’re not sexually compatible, and my perspective is that your connection with someone can grow. And once you and once you have like clear communication with them, if they’re willing to grow with you, in, you know, sexually and experiment and meet your needs in that way, then you can make any situation work. That’s my perspective. Obviously, there are other medical situation, but we won’t get into this. I’m just talking more generally right now. But the problem right now is if you’re using it as a tool, like Well, I’m gonna withhold sex, because then I’ll get the result that I want. That is not the way that you want to think about it. But if you’re like, I’m going to Hold on, because I just love that magic moment when you’re starting to get to know someone and you haven’t crossed that line and there’s all that anticipation before you’ve had sex and you won’t get that feeling back not in that way. And so my feeling is why rush it if you are living in the magic, and it’s not so long where they’re like, this is never gonna happen. It’s not like a Kenny Kelly was blind situation, then why are we in such a hurry? I don’t believe in sex as a as a primary screener because it tells you nothing about the emotional content of that person and their willingness to really commit to you and grow with you. Oh my gosh, we could talk about this forever. But I know you have lots of people to help. lots, lots of behavioral analysis to run. I so appreciate you being able to join us and I appreciated your article, which we’ll link to, and of course, if anyone wants to try the happiness hype This method or work with you personally, then Clarissa silva.com is the best place to go to get hooked up. Thank you for being here. Clarissa Thanks so much to Clarissa for joining us. You can find Clarissa at Clarissa silva.com and you can find Laura at Laura powers 44 healing powers dotnet and of course on the healing powers podcast, this has been Episode 301 of dates and maids. I’m at damona Hoffman on all the socials. We need your questions. I know this is a crazy time. And there’s probably a lot going through your mind about whether it’s cuffing season, whether it’s social distancing season, how you can FaceTime a date and keep the connection going strong whatever it is, that’s on your mind. I’m here to help you with it. So you can DM me on all the socials at damona Hoffman or visit us at dates and mates calm and you can submit your question there. And we would love to have you join our community of love and support on this show on Patreon, you can see which goodies you’ll get from being a trusted friend with benefits of dates and mates if you check out our page patreon.com slash dates and mates. Next week we’ll be talking to Noel corto on how your brain chemistry might be leading you astray in love. That is a not to miss episode. Until next week, I wish you good health and happy dating

Co-dependency & Contagious Love

DON’T PAINT YOUR RED FLAGS GREEN

Here’s a question we have to ask for today’s show: do you feel like you’re always having your boundaries tested? Are you struggling to figure out how to get your needs met in a relationship without it turning into co- dependence?                                                                                                                                                                    

Then, friends, you need some Carla Romo in your life.

Carla is a nationwide speaker, certified dating & relationship coach, and author of the book Contagious Love. You’ve seen her on BRAVO, Cosmo, Bumble, Lifetime, and more

She’s here to help us understand red flags and co-dependence.

More on that later, first we have headlines!

DATING DISH (2:30)

Do you have accent bias? 

Have you ever heard the words, “he was so sexy until he opened his mouth”? According to Refinery 29, a recent study reveals that accent bias might be the reason behind this

What to expect when you are dating someone with a mental health diagnosis

The Tinder Blog writes a very honest guide to navigating dating someone with a mental health diagnosis. Damona and Carla have thoughts. 

Should you be looking for marriage?

Amanda Seales reveals that she’s not looking for marriage and most millennial women aren’t either. Damona breaks it down.

CONTAGIOUS LOVE (14:60)

Carla Romo, dating coach, love-life cheerleader, and author of the book, Contagious Love, has so much to share on healthy relationships. 

  • Carla’s philosophy is that the most important relationship you have is with yourself, and it sets the tone for every relationship you have in your life.
  • Feeling stuck and stagnant 
  • Codependency
  • Boundaries
  • Don’t paint your red flags green

 

TECHNICALLY DATING 

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • I’ve been online dating for about a month and the conversations with 3 guys have been taken offline. While Online the messaging back and forth was consistent and quick, but offline I feel I’m the one mainly holding the conversations and asking pertinent questions. How do i get more engagement? I’ve practiced the “yes and” role playing from one of your podcast episodes but then there are awkward moments of silence via FaceTime or on the phone. (Btw I let guys know I’m not much of a texter and phone calls are preferred) Help me please! -Andrea
  • Rachel- I met someone about nine months ago and we had the most amazing connection I’ve ever had with anyone. However, there are circumstances going on in his life that have caused him to not be able to focus on his love life, so we are no longer together. He says his feelings have not changed for me, but these other obligations keep him from being the man that he wants to be and to be fully invested in a relationship. Aka, he’s not ready. How do I get over someone who I expected to live the rest of my life with?

Your Dating Funnel Is Broken

In last week’s webinar, “Why Dating Apps Don’t Work For You,” I dropped this truth: 1 in 3 relationships start on a dating app.

If dating apps aren’t working for you, your dating funnel is broken and you’re probably reliving the same dating disappointments again… and again… and again.

It’s time to break the cycle.

This new year, remember that it takes just 30 days to change a habit. Dedicating just 30 days to updating your dating habits could change your luck in love by Valentine’s Day.

Can you change your habits if you only know this way to date?

Yes, but it requires a little work! I prescribe my private clients an individualized dating plan that gets them unstuck from the dating rut and, within 3 months, 90% land exclusive relationships.

You don’t have 3 months until Valentine’s Day. And maybe you don’t have the $3,000+ that my VIP program costs.

So I’ve distilled this exact system into a simple, affordable, digital one-month program:

>> THE 30 DAY DATING PLAYBOOK <<<

This version has been completely refreshed for 2020’s most current dating challenges that I know you are facing.

BONUS: Get it now for the 30-day countdown to Valentine’s Day and I’m giving you $100 off the program.

That’s a 33% discount on my tried-and-true system if you use the offer code: countdown

Here’s proof it works:

This time last year, Marquis, 41, was single and dreading Valentine’s Day. But he had two things that I think you have, too:

  1. An insatiable drive to find his person
  2. My step by step instructions on how to break the single cycle

At the end of the program, Marquis had all the tools he needed. Now, I’m thrilled to say Marquis found his first girlfriend ever!

Are you dreaming of a different relationship destiny for yourself? If so, click here to watch a video about his journey and learn more about the 30 Day Dating Playbook!