Love Lessons: Mind-Body Connection

3 STEPS TO UNLOCKING LOVE

There are three basic steps to complete before you can truly find a “forever kind of love”:

  • A mindset realignment
  • A flexible body
  • A spiritual connection

⚠️ ⚠️ ⚠️ This doesn’t mean what you think it means! ⚠️ ⚠️ ⚠️

This month, Damona’s explaining what all of this means and then walking you through these steps on the Dates & Mates podcast.

We’re releasing a 4 part series designed to take you deeper on a mental, spiritual, and even physical level to design the love life you want.

Lessons 1, 2 and 3 are LIVE NOW!

These short lessons will take you less than 30 minutes to complete, but might be the key to unlocking your missing link in love.

In the first lesson, we talked about self-forgiveness and deciding when you are ready to date.

In the second lesson, Damona gave a meditative guide to understanding your ideal mate.

But this week, your body tells you what your love life is missing. So let’s get physical!

I’m helping you open up to love by releasing blocks in your body and strengthening a mind-body connection in today’s yoga tutorial.

This simple exercise is made for everyone. So take 30 minutes to dedicate to this journey today!

YOGA TUTORIAL ( 5:00)

Table Top – use your body with intention. (6:00)

How are you showing up in your relationships? How are you setting up your relationship foundation?

(picture courtesy of beyogi.com)

Plank Pose – What is your gut feeling?

Mountain Pose – Receive Love

Are you in a position to receive the love you deserve?

Sun Salutation – Leading forward with the heart (11:00)

Are you ready for this relationship? Are you pushing yourself too hard? 

Downward Facing Dog – (13:00)

(picture courtesy of beyogi.com)

Close your eyes – Trust and Faith

Cobra Pose – Gaze forward through your mind’s eye (15:27)

(picture courtesy of Jeff Nelson for Yoga Journal)

Tree Pose – Focus your intention

(picture courtesy of beyogi.com)

Twisted Lunge

(picture courtesy of gaia.com)

Camel Pose

(picture courtesy of beyogi.com)

 

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:12  

Lovers, welcome to dates and maids. We are closing out this seventh season of the show departing from our regular format of headlines and interviews and QA to bring you a micro series called love lessons. If you’re new to the show, welcome, I adore you. I’m so happy you’re here. And I strongly encourage you to go back and listen to some other episodes from this season first, because this is going to be a different kind of thing. But for those of you who are ready to go deeper with me and want to experience a different kind of transformation, strap on your seat belts, ladies and gentlemen. Last week, I shared an exercise with you about the mind and How to visualize yourself in the future and train your brain to get on a course to find your ideal mate. So today, I will do an exercise with you that uses the body to heal prior wounds and open you up for love. Our bodies are incredible. They store information and emotions that inform our daily choices in life. But just as we store tension and pain and fear, there are movements that you can do to release these emotions and unlock a deeper level of trust and confidence and openness to love. The other powerful thing about the body is that it can’t be talked out of something. While you can do a mental exercise, you can do those exercises all day but still sabotage yourself with negative thinking that counteract the positive effects of visualization and meditation and other mental exercises. When you work with your body, you can be impacted on an immediate physiological level. Without having to battle with stories and memories in your mind. The body is pure action and reaction. And this is one of the reasons that you’ve heard me say on the show before, that you learn in motion. This is why I do improv and practice dates with my VIP clients so that they can feel the new dating habits in their bodies. And then it becomes second nature and you don’t have to think about it. It’s also why I say that you don’t necessarily need to wait until you’re 100% over a breakup to begin dating again. We can talk about your feelings and picture yourself in the ideal relationship forever, but you cannot get there without taking action. So let’s take some action right now. 20 years ago, I took my first yoga class and I never looked back it transformed my body for sure. But more importantly, it transformed my mind. Today, I’m going to give you a series of poses that have a profound ability to impact your love life. What’s coming up is not a yoga class per se, but it’s a tutorial. If you’re new to yoga, I will describe the poses in detail and we will post a blog at dates and mates comm showing the poses if you’re not totally clear on what it’s supposed to look like, but also I encourage you to just trust yourself. And even if it’s not perfect, as long as you’re not in pain, you don’t have to do it perfectly. You’re making progress just by attempting the movement. Now, if you’re a seasoned practitioner, I hope that this session gives you a deeper understanding behind the postures that you can take into your flow classes and practices in the future. This will not be a substitute for regular class and this is not intended as a workout. But it can be a helpful supplement to your regular practice and give you a deeper level of knowledge as to why your teacher is following you through a certain sequence of poses. Before we begin moving, I have to include a disclaimer that I am not a yoga teacher. I’m a committed practitioner of 20 years I’ve studied with some of the best teachers in the world. And I am a former AFA certified fitness instructor, and an accredited Pio plotters, yoga teacher. And most importantly, if you do any of these exercises at home, you must be aware of your surroundings. So clears some space out. And let’s begin. 

 

If you have a yoga mat or blanket, please take a seat on it. Now, ideally with your legs criss crossed or if that’s not possible for you and your body. Prop yourself up on a pillow or sit on your knees. Now close your eyes. Take a breath in and out And feel yourself in your seat. Whatever part of your body is touching the ground right now, visualize the points of contact rooting into the ground, through the floor

 

into the earth. You’re grounded and you’re sure of yourself as you are connected to the earth. Breathe in again. Hi and feel that sensation as you breathe out. Now I want you to set an intention for our time together. What do you hope to get out of this experience? How do you want to feel when it’s done? breathing that intention. Breathe that intention in and over your body. In and out. And sit with intention for a moment. Now, you can open your eyes and come up onto all fours. So this is tabletop position. I want you to look at your fingers. How are your hands connected to the mat or the floor below you? Are they placed with intention? Or are they kind of curled? Or are they flat and strong? How strong are your forearms and your elbow right now? Okay, it’s alright if you did it without tension before, but now, let’s place them mindfully. I want you to think about spreading your fingers out evenly. And think of pressing the mound of your hand like right there under your knuckles into the ground. Imagine you’re almost clawing the floor while pressing your fingertips and Knuckles into the floor beneath you. And then Picture yourself drawing up strength from the floor. So you have all five fingers and the pad of your hand pushing down yet, muscle energy is pulling up from the floor. feel those muscles of your arms and the rooted intensity of your fingers. This is a foundation. This is being grounded. And you see how it affects the whole experience of the finger, the hands, the forearms, the elbows and the shoulders in this pose. Okay, now relax for a second and go back to how you were doing it before. Don’t think about it too much. Just put it back how you were. And then ask yourself this question. How have I been showing up in my dating life or in my relationships? I might just placing my fingers on the mat and expecting to be supported. Or am I taking the time to set up my foundation and using my energy to hold my intention. So now you get to reset your foundation. Go ahead and push those fingertips and the mount of your hand into the floor, climbing the floor almost and drawing that energy up. Do it the good way. And I’ll pop up to plank pose. So this is ideally with your knees up off the floor, toes curled under making a straight line from the top of your head all the way down your spine to your heels. And if that’s not accessible for you right now, that’s okay. Put your knees down, but focus on getting that straight line. You want that going from the top of your head down to your knees. Now Engage your core. And this isn’t Suzanne subbers ABS of steel stuck in your belly. This means picture the entire core of muscles The front sides and back of you, which all support you in this post. If you’re not feeling them yet, you’re not feeling that court, drop your hips down an inch and see if that engages them. Stay there. I know you’re still there. Think of how important your core is to your decision making in dating and relationships. When you’re out with someone and you’ve heard me say before that you have to get in touch with the feeling you have when you’re with them. You need to know what’s up in your gut. We are still up my friends. We’re still up in plank. You’ve heard the saying, I had a gut feeling right? This is where that feeling begins. Keep breathing. This exercise is helping you to awaken this area of your body so that you can feel your gut when it’s speaking to you. Okay, it’s alright, you can come back down. Come back down now to all for us. Intense right

 

for more experience practitioners you can add on a Breath of Fire. That’s another great gut check. We’re not going to do it today. But I encourage you to incorporate that into your practice. If you find yourself saying, I don’t know what to look for in a match, or I feel out of touch with my gut reaction. And as you train this gut instinct, you should be able to know within the first 30 minutes or so of meeting someone if your gut is giving you a yes or no on them. Now, if you’re familiar with sun salutations, you can come up and move into your own flow right now. And then I’m going to throw you a curveball in a moment. But for now, if you’re new to yoga, if you’re completely new, you don’t know what a sun salutation is, don’t worry, I’m going to walk you through it right now. Come up to standing at the top of your mat. Some teachers will tell you to bring your feet together when you come up to standing. But that’s physiologically challenging for many people. If you look at where your hips are placed, bring them together does For a lot of people in the hip and groin area, so for myself and for many other people, if you are more comfortable with your legs, hip width apart, that’s all good. And I encourage you to do that stand with your arms at your sides and your palms turned slightly open. Think of this as a position of receiving. And remember, remember we had that intention from before. Put that back in your brain and we are going to flow. Now like you’re drawing a sun, bring those arms up and around and up to the sky, and then bring them apart and dive forward to touch the ground. If you don’t have the flexibility to touch the ground like this, just bend your knees, no biggie. modify this to make it feel good for you. Now with your arms still on the ground, I want you to take your head up and look forward towards your future. And release your head down and drop back to the floor. keeping those in Knees bent if your hamstrings are tight. And now we’re going to step back to all fours or plank position as you were a moment ago. And I want you to lower down slowly to the floor, as if you’re doing a descending, push up. This is Chaturanga. Go all the way down to the floor. Next, we’re going to come up to Cobra. Inhale, no upward facing dog folks, most people do not have the flexibility for that and doing poses, your body isn’t ready for is the number one way to get injured. Just like pushing yourself into a relationship that is not right for you is number one way to get your heart broken. So we’re just going to keep our hands down and push into the floor with our hands with the same intention we did in tabletop. But keep our elbows bent. So you’re going to pull your heart through your shoulders, think of leaning forward with the heart. And we are unlocking the heart through this exercise. We will get deeper into that and Moment. Exhale and release down to the ground and push back to downward facing dog. This is basically just an upside down V position. If you don’t know it again, tight hamstrings, no problem, just bend your knees and focus on getting your butt up to the sky and that straight line from your head all the way down your tailbone. We are going to breathe here for three deep breaths, focusing on our original intention again.

 

Unknown Speaker  13:30  

Breathe in

 

Unknown Speaker  13:33  

and out

 

Damona  13:38  

and out. Breathing in and out again, preparing to jump or step forward to the top of your mat. Then circle your arms up again. Come up to the sky and back down to Mountain Pose. Tadasana again at the front of your mat with your arms at your sides turned slightly open In a pose of receiving. Now, if you’ve already been flowing, please come back and meet me here at the top of your mat for your curveball. Relationships require an element of trust and release. And this is one of the things that my clients struggle with most. So to allow us to feel the sense of trust and faith. I’m going to have you close your eyes and do all of that. Again. I want you to allow my voice to lead you and don’t worry about how you look or where you are on your mat. We are going with feeling eyes closed. Breathe in and circle your arms up to the sky. And then as you hinge forward, dive your head down to the ground as you circle your arms around to the floor. And exhale, eyes still closed. Now inhale and bring your head and heart forward, but keep your arms down and your eyes still closed. And here’s the tricky part step back to plank pose. Feel it? Are you getting that gut check? Uh huh. Now, we’re going to exhale all the way to the ground. Chaturanga. Reverse push up and inhale again, bring your head up to cobra pose bhujangasana. As your hands are rooted to the earth, your eyes are still closed and yet you’re gazing forward through your mind’s eye. Bringing that heart forward. Now tuck your toes under and push back. Downward facing dog on a muka Shavasana. Eyes are still closed, exhaling fully and inhaling. What are you feeling? This is bringing up anxiety to have your eyes closed. Is it scary to be inside alone with yourself. Keep breathing. We’re still in downward facing dog. Keep sitting with your feelings. On your third inhale and exhale, step forward to the top of your mouth, still keeping your eyes closed or back at Tadasana Mountain Pose. What do you feel now? on your own, I encourage you to do a closed eye flow again sometime, but for time, we’re just going to do that one circuit today. Yet, if you do another sequence with your eyes closed, pay attention to the feelings that come up for you. When you must lose control, and struggle with balance and face what’s inside your body and mind when you’re alone in there, without outside stimulus. For today’s exercise, we’re going to move on to a few more poses. tree pose is next. Turn your right knee out to the side and lift the inside of your foot up to your calf or inner thigh. Just avoid the knee you’re either above it or below it essentially your leg You’re going to look like a flagpole and your knee a flag. And I want you to put your hands together in prayer position or raise your arms up to the sky. How’s your balance? Are you looking forward? Do you have a focal point? Do you have a focus? Do you have a focus in your love life? Think of that focus that intention, get clarity. See how that impacts your balance. In yoga, we call that focal point, your drishti. And your drishti will tell you whether or not you can stay in a pose. Maybe if you’re feeling balanced, you can lift your leg higher or your gaze higher. People are always talking about seeking balance and visualizing. There’s this magical point where everything just comes together that they just haven’t attained yet. haven’t unlocked that level. The Game of Life. What you’re experiencing right now is that to get to a relative level of balance, there is a constant ebb and flow. Your muscles are probably working very hard to balance just like your mind is working to find that focal point. Switch sides. You take your left leg up to your calf or inner thigh and arms up to the sky, or in front of you palms together in prayer position, find that focal point. Breathe in

 

and out. Are you struggling to find your balance? But feelings are coming up for you when you do? self doubt? Are you saying I can’t do this? What is wrong with me? Then ask Have you let go of your muscle energy? Have you lost sight of your drishti your focal point? Are you challenging yourself enough? Are you just okay being in balance Are you willing to push yourself further? If you’re balanced, see if you can look a little higher, or bring your arms up, or your legs up. Oh, did that push you out of balance? Are you out of your comfort zone? Wait, are you still breathing? That’s the most important thing in yoga, keep breathing, inhaling and exhaling. My friends, this is what balance really looks like. This is the constant process of being in and out of balance with a constant focus on realignment. And I guarantee you that the feelings that are coming up right now what you’re experiencing emotionally, it’s probably echoed in your daily life and in your love life as well. Try to approach approach yourself with kindness and compassion. Last few moments really grood down through the ground see yourself as a tree with strong roots whose leaves and branches can move in a breeze, but still say connected to the trunk. You’re strong, you’re connected, build out power. And release. Let it go back into dossena Mountain Pose. We’re going to move on to my least favorite type of pose, but one that is extremely important and you’ll see why it’s my least favorite and why it’s so important in just a moment. Now, take your right leg back into a lunch, you can either put the knee down to the mat, if that’s more secure for you, or you can keep it up. Now press your hands together in prayer position, and I want you to rotate your torso to the left over your left knee. Breathe in and imagine yourself wringing out your midsection as you pull your body left. Keep turning, keep turning. Keep turning and if you can now take your right elbow outside your left knee I know it sounds like twister. You are in a twisted position with your upper body. Moving to the left and you’re in a lunge in your lower body with your left leg forward. You are compressing your mid body. But I want you to try to lift up through your heart and bring it closer to your prayer hands can you twist a little more through your heart? What is coming up right now, um, for me, I get anxious in this position. I really want to move I really want to move I really want to pull out and away but I know that that feeling is just the remnants of my avoidant attachment style wanting to run away at the first sign of trouble. Maybe that’s coming up for you too, but still stay in it. Remain in the twist until you can feel the feelings coming up for you and keep breathing. You can try to lift your back knee and balance if you’re not there yet one more moment breathing in And out. On an exhale, release and switch sides. You can bring your right leg forward and your left knee to the ground or up, hands again, at prayer position, and now we’re going to rotate to the right for you in and on an exhale, wring out those in our drag them out all the way to the right, keep going and on an exhale how you can hook that left elbow outside your right knee, and then feel all the feels. Maybe for you, this is very comforting. You might not have the same associations that I do. Maybe for you, it brings up a feeling of being supported and locked in or connected to your core self. Or maybe it brings up a lot of discomfort for you. And for you the juice in this pose is about learning to To be nonreactive in a challenging situation, we want to choose to respond in challenging moments, rather than just react or explode. Whatever’s coming up for you Don’t be afraid of the feeling. Stick with it. Breathe in and out once more. What was that intention again?

 

Are you still remembering it? Are you here in the moment? Are you thinking about what comes next in your day? Try to be right here with me. Breathe in and on an exhale, wring out those innards, wring them out as you turn to the right. It’s backbend time. This is the most important movement for my clients looking for love as we are often afraid to open up our hearts. I’ve seen tremendous relief happen in people’s lives beginning with learning to open the heart physically, as it leads to open The heart emotionally. We are going to move into camel pose.

 

So now come up to sitting on your knees, we’re going to lift our body up. So you’re making a right angle at the back of your knee, your torso is straight up and your shins are parallel to the ground. Now, tuck your toes under, unless you already knows know this pose and you can do it with your feet flat. tuck your toes and put your hands on your hips. With your thumbs facing towards the back. You should be able to feel your tailbone. Now lift up through your heart. We’re not moving anywhere just yet. Just imagine your heart like Superman, bursting through your chest up to the sky and begin to dip your head slightly back and up to the sky without crunching your neck. This is a very vulnerable position isn’t it? When you open your heart to someone, one of your most Most important organs is exposed unprotected. And if you experienced heartbreak in the past, as I’m sure most of you have, this could be very hard for you. It could feel like you’re literally having to crack open your ribs to get your heart through. But the more you do it, the easier it will be. And we need this kind of opening to be able to let love in. So this pose could be enough for you. 

 

But if you want more or you know, camel pose, you can begin to take your hand back to your heel, still lifting up through your heart, and then slowly take the other arm back. So now you’re in a teardrop sort of shape, with your heart up to the sky and your head falling back behind you. Again, not crunching your neck. Your body is fully supported by your hands as they push into your heels feel that support Knowing that when you open your heart It’s okay. Because your network supports you, your friends, your family, me, we literally have your back. So you can just let go of having to protect and cover your heart all the time. It’s time to release. Breathe in again and out. Now we’re going to come up slowly Hold on, but here is the most important thing. Your head comes up last. I guarantee you if you do this too fast, you will lead with your head just like you do in love. Today, we are going to lead with our hearts trying to come up from your hips and your heart all at once. Think of rooting down like a tree through your knees and then pulling your heart forward with you while your head trails behind. Did you Read with your head. Hmm, if so, try it again. Heart first heart, first head last heart burst. And once you’re up high, you can come back down to sitting, and then move into lying on your back. Your feet are stretched out on the ground, your arms are at your side, your palms are up to the sky. Relax into your final resting post Shavasana feel the effects of this practice, wash over your body. This is just a primer of some key poses to get you into the feelings of dating and relationships and the patterns that may not be serving you that have become imprinted on your body. So to review, we played with getting in touch with our core, closing the eyes to access trust and surrender. Balance And needing to accept that ebb and flow of life, twisting to access our attachment style instincts and our ability to stay calm in the face of challenges. And finally, we open the heart to allow others to come in and see our true self. There’s so much more that we could do. But this is just a starting place. If you do this practice again, once a week, you will notice that there is a change that will happen in the way that you’re connecting to your body, and how that’s affecting your mind and the patterns that you have in love. All that will show up in your practice and it will show up in your real life. The next time you’re in a regular yoga class, if you are a yogi, think of the deeper association of these postures. Fitness is amazing. But Yoga is so much more than that and it can lead to a deep discovery. And acceptance of yourself, which is really what this whole life journey is about. Right?

 

Close your eyes for a moment. And remember that intention word that we started this practice with. Imagine it, bathing your body, head to toe and washing over you. Now let it all go and just be you’re here. There’s only one you you can stay stuck in a body that has locked in hurt and anger and sadness. Or you can release all that and write a new story for yourself. From here on out. You are strong. You are beautiful. You are you Thank you for listening to this special love lesson with me. Next time, we will have a love lesson for your spirit. This is all leading up to our season eight launch on August 3, we have a super fantastic special guest for that show, who I cannot wait to reveal to you. But in the meantime, you should follow me on social media. And I will announce first on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook who that guests will be. plus I would love to hear your reaction to these special love lessons episode so you can message me on social media at damona Hoffman and I would love your support of this show through Patreon. I am also adding videos within the Patreon Friends with Benefits Facebook group that will give you a behind the scenes take on the recent dates and mates episodes. And they’ll also include live private q&a is with me. Plus, you’ll get the members only podcast Plus, you’ll get the members only podcast library that is now open. We have over 300 episodes of dates in mates. Our public feed has the most recent 100, which is damn good, but there’s so much more and I’d love for you to have access to that you can become a member for only $5, a month@patreon.com, slash dates and mates. The link will be in the show notes. But I wanted to bring you these love lessons without add interruptions in the middle, because I wanted you to be able to experience that journey with me without interruption. So if you want to support that, and keep making the show free to everyone, and you have five bucks laying around that you could pledge to the show, I would deeply value your support@patreon.com slash dates and mates. Thank you so much for your recent five star reviews. I have just I’m so honored that you took the time to be with me and to share your thoughts about the show with others. And thank you for also sharing these episode So with other people who could benefit from them. Thank you so much for listening. Until next week. I wish you happy dating

Rethink Love & Bachelor on Blast

RETHINK LOVE

We’re about halfway through 2020 and we already cannot wait for the fresh start that 2021 will bring. This year has been by far one of the most intense but it’s forcing us to look at what is really important.

What life do you want to create for yourself when we eventually come out on the other side of this extremely challenging period of time?

Today, we want to help you create something beautiful out of the challenges around us.

We explore your options and perhaps guide you to finding your ideal life with Monica Berg, author of Rethink Love and Fear is Not an Option.

She’s all teaching you to create a life worth living. That sounds really heavy – but basically we want to help you create the life you want immediately.

via GIPHY

But first, Damona covers headlines:

DATING DISH (1:50)

Are your dick pics on Amazon RIGHT NOW?

Security researchers came across a very surprising data breach this month – sloppily stored super personal and sometimes sexually explicit private interactions from various dating apps can be accessed through something called a “bucket.” Is your data all over Amazon? Damona breaks it down.

via GIPHY

Bachelor on Blast

This week, Matt James was announced as the super hot new Bachelor! But did you know that the Bachelor previously argued in a lawsuit that it was their constitutional right not to cast contestants of color? Here’s an NPR article from 2012 all about it. What does this casting decision mean for the past, present and future of reality TV? You might remember that Damona has a history in TV casting and producing. She has a lot of thoughts on the topic.

Date night ideas for those of us who are still social distancing (read: all of us)

Damona gives us 10 date night ideas for keeping it cute in quarantine – if you’re tired of Netflix and Chill.

LOVE & WISDOM (12:00)

Damona’s been Kabbala curious for a very long time so when we were approached to have Monica Berg – Communications Director for the Kabbala Center – we got super excited.

She’s the author of Rethink Love and Fear is Not an Option and self-professed change junkie.

Monica’s lived a very full life and it has taught her how the practical wisdom of Kabbalah can bring Light and strength into even the most challenging experiences by changing the one thing we can control ourselves. We all need some Light and Strength right now.

She and Damona discuss:

  • Ancient wisdom
  • Ups and Downs in a relationship is healthy
  • Romanticized expectations of falling in love and why they’re unhealthy
  • How distorted self-perception is killing your potential to find love

Find Monica on all the socials @monicaberg74 and at rethinklife.today. PLUS you can join Monica’s Rethink Love Interactive Webinar if you want more from her

TECHNICALLY DATING (42:46)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • I’m 37, and I’m so embarrassed to say that I’ve never been in a relationship before. I’ve talked to some therapists and they don’t really know what to say that, and it’s still makes me sad to this day. I’ve been single my whole life and it hurts me knowing my situation, that I’ve missed out simple things, like celebrating an anniversary with a guy, walking along a beach, watching the sunset, celebrating anything basically. What would you say to help me get over this embarrassment? Is it something that I just have to live with and stop dwelling on? I’ve been living with it my whole life, I don’t really know how to heal my heart from this.
  • What advice do you have on interracial dating and how to have convos about what’s happening during these crazy times?

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:12  

modern love Made Simple. This is dates inmates with damona Hoffman. Hello lovers, we are about halfway through 2020. And I think it’s safe to say we’re all experiencing some sort of change. Whether we like it or not, the world around us is rapidly evolving. It’s time to decide how you fit into the new normal. What life do you want to create for yourself when we eventually come out on the other side of this extremely challenging but necessary period. I want to help you explore your options and maybe guide you towards finding your ideal life. Along with Monica Berg. She’s the author of rethink love, and fear is not an option. She will be teaching you all how to create a life Fourth living. I know it’s kind of heavy. But the bottom line is that you can have the power to change your life right now. And we want to help you do that if you’re not where you want to be. So I want you to think about your immediate life goals. And then we’ll come back to that in a moment. But first, I’m going to get you up to speed on this week’s headlines. We’ll talk about how to keep your dick pics from getting leaked on Amazon, and 40 seasons and a single black lead what ABC needs to do next, with their first black bachelor plus date night at home ideas for those of us who are still social distancing, which should be all of you. Then, as always, at the end of the show, I will answer your questions including how to approach dating if you’ve never been in a relationship, and what advice do you have on interracial dating? You know, that’s a topic I have a lot to say about. So let’s get ready and do the dish

Monica Berg  1:59  

these days. dish

Damona  2:03  

dating app data exposed according to Wired Magazine, now every few months, you hear a story like this from me about a dating app breach. But this one’s a little bit different because it actually wasn’t a breach of a particular app. But it was actually a publicly accessible bucket on Amazon web services that included sexually explicit photos and audio recordings. Nobody exactly knows where they came from or how they got captured. But what the experts agree on is that it was basically just sloppily stored data, not a breach of passwords or access to your app. So as I seem to do quarterly, I’m just going to remind you that I’m not a fan of sending sensitive material over the internet. I’m not a fan of posting it. I’m not a fan of even Snapchatting it because we have I’ve had a breach on Snapchat. And you have to be in control of the information that goes out and you and you have to be prepared that if that information gets leaked into the public eye, that it’s not something that will cause you to potentially lose your job or be embarrassed or end your relationship. This breach was pretty sensitive because some of the apps whose data was was included here were apps like threesome, gay Daddy bear and herpes dating. And they’re actually a total of nine services. But among them, many of them were were apps that had sensitive data about people’s sexual orientation, which may or may not be public and their health information like in herpes dating, so I just have to remind y’all to be very careful with what you share. I know we’re living in a time where we are virtually dating, but just remember screenshots can happen, data storage can happen. revenge porn definitely happens. And however they got there, I just have to remind you that once they’re on the internet, they may not ever disappear. So choose your sex wisely. Speaking of choosing wisely, ABC is trying to make good on The Bachelor Finally, after 40 seasons and only one lead a one black lead, who was Rachel Lindsay a bachelorette they now have a black bachelor. But just to put this in context, you may or may not realize there’s also been a lawsuit, there’s been a change.org petition, there’s been a lot of conversation about the lack of diversity on ABC actually raised children’s who herself has been very critical and said that she’d like to see more people of color on the entire staff which is something that as a former casting director, and as a former Diversity executive and television executive and TV producer, I have often rallied for. And I’ve said that this the land of TV and I’ve worked in it for nearly 20 years, the land of TV does not look like the world that I grew up in are the world that many of you are living in, which is actually quite diverse. And yet, because of the reach of TV, we have a responsibility to accurately portray the world and even to be leaders to lead the charge on change happening in the world. So this

Monica Berg  5:35  

this

Damona  5:36  

choice to pick a black bachelor right now I do not believe is an accident, I believe it is is is a representation of what is happening in the world and his reaction to that, rather than being forward thinking and leading the charge. ABC is behind the eight ball and choosing a black bachelor to avoid criticism. And you may not realize they’ve actually been sued for this They, there was a lawsuit, which I’ll just give you the highlights of it. But there were a couple of contestants who auditioned for the Bachelor. And they sued because they said the show is discriminates against people of color, both in choosing the primary Bachelorette and choosing people who he or she will date. And you know what ABC said, y’all. ABC. ABC argued that casting is a first amendment right, and that they have a right to discriminate if they’re talking about casting and not have to deal with potential backlash of forming an interracial relationship that that is up to them and the judge agreed the judge agreed that it is not illegal for them to discriminate. Now it is illegal Of course in any other hiring situation. But on television, they agreed that it is not as illegal and they dismiss the case. And this is not okay. This is not okay with me. This is a complete lack of awareness of the responsibility of television. And I know many of the people that work at ABC, I know many of the diversity executives, and I’m sure they are just Gerges biting through their upper lip at this decision, and at an even at the afterthought now of putting a black bachelor in this position, because it shouldn’t have to be mandated by the court. It It shouldn’t just be something that you do as a reaction to a racial revolution. It is something that is a business imperative. It is something that is a world shaping imperative, and something that I don’t believe that the ABC executives and producers are taking as seriously as they should. So I I’m really happy that we finally do have a black bachelor. I posted a video Do not too long ago about racial preference and and bias in dating and how it really relates to our own deeper unconscious bias around race. I do encourage you to check that out on my Instagram or Facebook if you haven’t watched it yet. And this Sunday, I will have a full article in The Washington Post on this topic as well, but we’re just it’s just the tip of the iceberg we have so much further to go and this is just the beginning of the discussion. On a lighter note, you all still need to keep dating but I know many of you are hesitant to go out even as dates are opening up and and lifting restrictions for Coronavirus. So I have a cute little article that can help you if you are either in a relationship or you are newly dating someone have 10 ideas 10 things that you can still do at home, to have a fun and sexy date. We will of course Put the link to it in the show notes. I wrote this for our sisters at AARP, which is a blog through the AARP for black women. But it’s for everyone and I talk about the importance of an histology date. If you don’t know what it is style check date is you can check that out and we’ll put the link in the show notes that dates and mates calm but nostalgia can can actually bond to people if you can create feelings of familiar prior experiences it can actually make you feel connected. Almost as if you were there together. You can certainly make a gourmet meal together my husband and I are big fans of the box to meal kits like sun basket. You can do a sip and paint night you can play Never have I ever there are a ton of ideas. So I don’t want you to feel limited Even though Coronavirus fatigue is certainly setting in I’m feeling it myself. We can still take time to connect and we can still do it in a way that is safe this season. Those are the headlines of the week but in a moment we’ll be talking to Monica Berg about all things love and light and lifelong change. But first, I just need to ask you, are we friends with benefits. If you are looking to go deeper in love and you want some extra bonus material on all things dating and relationships, I would love for you to become a part of the dates and means Patreon program, I’m giving you access to all the hidden episodes of dates and mates. Right now we only have the last 100 episodes, but there’s actually over 300 episodes of dates and dates. And I’m going to give you access to all of those if you’re inside of my friends with benefits program. There’s video tutorials on how to read your dates face in the profile to tell if they’re a match for you or not. And a lot of other dating resource cheat sheets and extras those are all available for you@patreon.com slash dates and mates. And of course, you’ll be invited inside my private Facebook group where we can have a direct conversation But that’s only for people who are my friends with benefits and I’d love for you to become one of them. It starts at just $5 a month. And again, that’s patreon.com slash dates and mates. We’ll have more coming right up with Monica virg. So don’t go anywhere.

Welcome back. I am here with Monica Berg. She’s the author of rethink love and fear is not an option. And she’s the chief communications officer of the Kabbalah center. She’s lived a very full life and it’s taught it’s taught her how the practical wisdom of Kabbalah can bring light and strength into even the most challenging experiences by changing the one thing we can control ourselves. We all need some light and strength right now. Please help me give some big smooches to Monica Berg.

Monica Berg  11:47  

It’s great to be here with you. Thank you.

Damona  11:48  

I’m so glad to have you. So Monica, let’s start at the top. You are the the chief communications officer of the Kabbalah center. Tell me What just give us like a rundown of what Kabbalah is and how it impacts your life?

Monica Berg  12:07  

Well, Kabbalah is an ancient wisdom that explains the complexities of the material and non material world. And for thousands of years kabbalists have understood that the purpose of our life is transformation, and that every human being is born with the potential of greatness, for greatness. And our responsibility is to try to unlock that potential. And I have found the wisdom to really be life altering. Sometimes I wonder where I would have gone I started studying when I was 17. And it explained to me, really, you know, the purpose of life, how to create beautiful gifts from the most difficult challenges and how to really allow life to an all of the things that you experience to go through you rather than happening to you. There’s a purpose for everything. It’s all divine, and there isn’t A great gift really just to be found if you’re looking for,

Damona  13:03  

huh, yeah, then especially connects when we’re talking about dating and relationships. Because there’s a lot of ups and downs, right? And as you as you move through these experiences, I like to look at every, every relationship, whether it’s your sole partner, your life partner or not. It’s an opportunity to learn, even if it doesn’t go exactly as planned.

Monica Berg  13:30  

Well, absolutely, I agree with you. And in fact, I don’t think I think the plans we make are kind of funny. I think we’re seeing that especially now, when we’re the pandemic and people realize that things are not really in our control. And I think that’s why a lot of people have a lot of fear, and a lot of uncertainty because we usually go through life with the illusion that we are in control of what happens, we have a goal, we have an idea, we have a purpose. We’re going to make it happen and if it doesn’t happen, then we get really upset and why didn’t workout I had a plan and I was so sure it was supposed to turn out like that. I think especially when it comes to relationships, there are certain things we can be sure of. If we’re looking and setting up the relationship from the beginning and the right way in terms of making sure you’re aligned in big picture ways and the most important ways, having common goals and understanding of what you want out of life, right, those are big things. And as you evolve in that consciousness, your partner then will evolve with you. But I think far too often people go into relationship with it being more of a commodity of you know, a buyer seller kind of exchange

Monica Berg  14:38  

often and relationships people kind of

Monica Berg  14:42  

it check out too soon. I think that in everything in life, there’s a process that we are meant to go through. And I think that if we’re paying attention if we’re really conscious beings, we’re we’re deriving meaning from everybody, everything every exchange, even if it doesn’t seem consequential, but something like a relationship of course, is I think in those moments that even if relationships seem to be stuck or stifled, there is a something you can learn about yourself. But also I think people often exit far too soon.

Damona  15:10  

Hmm. Talk to me a little bit more about that exiting too soon.

Monica Berg  15:17  

Well, I think that it’s really easy to have a belief system where Yeah, I hear this a lot. You know, I I’m tired of this relationship. It’s not what I expected. It’s not what I signed up for. And, you know, I know I’m going to meet do one on an airplane or you know, so and so mme and a taxi, they’re waiting for it. And we have this very romanticized idea of what falling in love and love looks like. And and that’s just a farce, you know, I mean, of course, that can happen. But far too often, I think people right off the relationship with I think in our minds, we think that a successful relationship is one that has no problems that it’s easy. That is fluid. And the truth is if you look historically, at relationships, even the strongest ones there, there was adversity, there was opposition. And I think that is actually a healthy part relationships are meant to be served as a mirror for you. I think if we look in biblical stories, we look at Shakespeare, there was often something that they needed to go through that was very difficult. And through that they were able to appreciate one another and actually grow from having that experience. So I just think we’re often very wrong about what we think love should look like and then how it’s going to play out.

Damona  16:34  

It’s like the sand needs that pressure to become the diamond. I heard like a little bit of almost sound like a laugh in your voice when you said the one and I know your book, The subtitle to rethink love is three steps to being the one attracting the one and becoming

Monica Berg  16:53  

one. Did I hear

Damona  16:55  

a little laugh on this idea of the one or do you believe There is a one destined person for everyone.

Monica Berg  17:06  

You didn’t hear the last because i think that i think that there are I do believe in soulmates but I think we’re wrong about, again what we think about that because we think it’s going to be amazing and effortless. And also, I think far too often we right off the person we’re with because we have an expectation that they should be something else. I think you can have a lot of different soulmates in your life actually. It depends where you’re at when you meet the person. If when you’re attracting a mate, you’re coming from a place where you’re feeling like you need validation or you feel very needy, or you feel that you want to your cherished delusion about what marriage will bring you. Well, you’re going to attract a certain kind of person, right? And maybe that person is a spark of your soul and you’re meant to do things together but then you might feel you outgrew them Why? Because maybe now and even invested more into becoming a friend yourself and getting to know yourself. And your ideas about who you want to be and how you want to live might have changed. And so therefore, you might want to different kinds of me. So I think it’s really important when you go into finding the one, you first look at makes sure that you are the one you know. Are you happy with who you are? Would you want to be married to you? Are you a friend to yourself? Do you do like living in your skin? How does that feel for you? And I would really say the relationship that first needs the most attention and the priority really is the one that you have with yourself. And far too often people actually just skip the entire chapter of their lives, and they move on from feeling, you know, maybe needy or not really knowing who they are, or maybe even a little bit undeserving. Or maybe not really good enough. And straight into I need love to help me feel all whole and all of those areas and I think that’s a mistake a lot of us make.

Damona  18:53  

Yeah, I I can certainly relate to that. And that’s been a part of my own story. From this place of being sort of other, being someone that is multi cultural, dual religion, you know, finding my place was was really hard. But as listeners of the show know, when I really came to understand and appreciate myself, that’s when I was able to attract my highest love. And I know you’ve had you’ve had different evolutions of Monica Berg and different challenges that you’ve faced.

Monica Berg  19:30  

If I may, I,

Damona  19:32  

I also heard that one of those struggles that you had was overcoming an eating disorder and body image challenges, which is something that I’ve struggled with as well. Can you talk about a little bit about your journey is this is something that comes up for a lot of my clients and my listeners as well?

Monica Berg  19:50  

Yes, absolutely. And interestingly enough, the first part of my book is all about the relationship you have with yourself. It’s eight chapters. It’s a big part of the book. I wrote it like that, because I actually have tried every single thing that I offer in those chapters. for somebody to struggle with anorexia, it’s really, by simple just the definition, you starve yourself from being able to give yourself love or receiving love, and also such a lack of self care that you don’t even nurture yourself, not with food or any other aspect. So I hit a point where I recognized how how little self love I had, which was surprising because I also had very strong beliefs of not suffering. I believed in fairness and equality and love for all but my ability, my inability to give it to myself was very big. And so I had a choice to either slowly keep starving myself to death ultimately, or I had to really learn to love myself. So I think it first starts with hearing and identifying false beliefs that we all carry. Usually it’s the voice of our parents. And my parents are great. They love me. But you know, they had their own struggles, right? So I started to identify those. And I started to identify areas where I felt shame, and feelings of unworthiness. And I decided that I was gonna turn the volume lower on that negative voice, that inner critic and I was going to try to find what was almost now an audible, the voice of my soul, which was telling me you know, you are destined for greatness simply by your existence, you are deserving of love. And I knew full well that I needed to learn to give that to myself. So although I was so lonely at the time, it’s a very isolating place to be in. And what I wanted more than anything was for someone to love me unconditionally. I knew so fully and completely in that moment, even at age 18, that I needed to learn to do that for myself. And if I didn’t do it now, I wouldn’t be happy. I wouldn’t even know if I would survive

 

Damona  21:58  

that steep That’s deep. And I think a lot of people can relate to that. But but maybe haven’t had that turning point that epiphany. Was there something was there a catalyst that really got you to say, I have to make a change.

Monica Berg  22:20  

Well, it’s interesting because I think a lot of people and that’s why I feel like having anorexia was a blessing. Because a lot of people can deal with this place of being in a prison. It’s like a self made prison, right? It’s very comfortable. It’s small, you’re caged in, but it’s a comfortable, it’s a comfortable prison, right? Because you’ve created it. For me. It was so extreme at that point that I was forced to have to do something about this. And the day that I realized that is also a gift, I call it the gift of knowing, because like most people who suffer with this, you don’t see it right. There’s body dysmorphia. You You see Large person when you look in the mirror, and, and I By the way, I was never I was always the size for like I’ve never It was never because I felt like I gained weight and it was just this deep shame that I had carried around for my whole life. And I remember one day I went to the bathroom and it was something I did every morning. It was called the pinch test and I would lift up my night shirt and I would pinch parts of skin which I felt were fat, but literally like skin off my stomach between my fourth my finger, my pointer finger and my thumb. And I remember on this given morning, I looked in the mirror and for the first time I saw like I actually saw what I looked like. And you have to know that before that I just saw a very different version. I saw this barely obese monitor looking at me. That’s what I had seen for years. And on that day, I saw a skeletal version of myself and I was horrified. I was horrified but it was at my own hands. I had created this and I started screaming and crying Trying to my mother who at that point, yes, she was expecting my heart to give out at any moment, from the lack of nutrients. And she came in and we just held each other. And from that point on, the struggle is still there, I needed to get help, I started this spiritual work. And I really did this work, but I knew no matter what I saw later that it wasn’t true that it was my eyes lying to me. And that was another gift and another insight that you can’t trust your five senses not in anything, not even in relationship.

Damona  24:28  

like can you trust the other senses? I believe I’m a big believer in many senses, and not even just six. But

Monica Berg  24:38  

well, this is the thing according to Kabbalah, we have what is known as the 1% reality versus the 99% realm. So the 1% is everything that’s ruled by our five senses. It’s, you know, sight, smell, hearing, taste, and very often, you know, and it’s immediate gratification. So when we go about relationships, we look for what you know, you Are pheromones, right? Do they smell good test? How do they feel to us? What’s the attraction level? And of course, all of those things are important. However, we know that looks fade. We know people get older. I mean, lots of things change, bank accounts change. So if it’s just based on external, you know, you’re gonna get into trouble with that a little bit later. But what’s connected to the 99% realm? is empathy, kindness, compassion, connection. Pleasure, laughter, right? All of those things. That’s what you really want to start out looking for when you’re looking for relationship, because that will stand the test of time. If you find a kind of person they’re going to be they’re going to continue to be high maybe and fast. They’ll want to continue to be kinder and find ways to grow that, huh?

Damona  25:43  

Yes, that’s I. I appreciate the way that you phrase that because that’s something that we talk about a lot on the show, but it’s hard to put into words what exactly those qualities you should be looking for are. I want to fast forward a little bit In your story to when you met your spouse, and just continuing on the conversation of self love and, and body image, because sometimes when when you get into the relationship or when you’re dating, then your face those issues are looking at you again because people feel that they’re being judged because of the way they look. Did that come up for you when you were dating? Or has it come up for you in your relationship in the past?

Monica Berg  26:37  

Well, it’s really interesting because

Monica Berg  26:40  

even though I really want a relationship I never trusted. I never trusted it because I didn’t feel I was ready for it in some way. I mean, even when, like, I mean, I went to Beverly Hills High School, there are plenty of opportunities, but I kept just feeling like I need to protect myself from something I didn’t know that I need to protect myself from me actually. Just what followed right when I was about to graduate, but when and my husband and I knew each other. So again, I started studying Kabbalah when I was 17. And he was very involved. He was kind of born into it, actually, his parents co founded the cloud center. So we came from very different backgrounds. And he you know, I love this too, because he always had his nose in a book. You know, he was walking read, and I written that, you know, I was drinking and dancing and do very different things that we were coordinating. But we put ourselves connected, right, but I could not see him like, even if God had come and said, this is your future husband. It was absolutely not because at face value, it didn’t look like things lined up. And I remember I was doing all of this work that we’re speaking about, I was still anorexic. And one day I walked into his office because there was a project that I volunteered to work on, and it was his projects and they walked in and our hands touch and it was like if we saw each other for the first time and we were married nine months. Later. And we were young to write. So when we joke like, oh, we’re really lucky it worked out. But the truth is, we both had these things in common in terms of the 99% realm. So, and I was interested when we fell in love, which is interesting, right? And I think, and I remember it was the first time I ever felt really happy, and it wasn’t so much that he was making me happy. It was just I never laughed so much. It was like there was levity. And there was a simplicity that I had never known or seen before. It was just being able to arrive on your own terms. And be seen, I think it was the first time I was really seen for who I really was like, he could see my soul and I don’t think anybody had ever seen me in that way ever until that point, and I’m not really sure until recent times. If people have you know, he always saw me and I think that that that belonging not only helps me heal But never made me. Never made me question who I was, or if I was enough.

Damona  29:08  

I wish that for all of our listeners, I hope that they can all get to that point. But I know there’s a lot of fear but you got to do the work and a lot of fear on the way to like fear of acceptance, fear of rejection. And I know we’re talking about rethink love, but you’ve also written a book called fear is not an option. Can you give just a couple of tips on overcoming fear or, or, you know, rejecting fear when it comes to moving into a relationship?

Monica Berg  29:44  

Well, I can talk about fear forever, although, yeah, I think that people do of course, fear of rejection. It feels very real. And I actually think it comes from ancestral times when when we would stand up and Be an individual and speak our mind. We could be ostracized right? And what did that mean? Then we were gatherers and hunters. That means if we were rejected from a group, basically, that was death because we could not survive on our own right. So I think we’re running really old software. And we think it’s real. And that’s why we’re terrified of being rejected. But the way I look at rejection is different rejection isn’t that what you’re offering is not worthwhile, or that it’s bad. It’s just the person you’re trying to give it to, is not the recipient of it. And if you look at it that way, it’s really not personal. It’s just not for them. But what a blessing to see that early on. So you can not waste time and you can move on to the next. So in order to do that, though, of course, you have to know your self worth, which takes us back again to that first very fundamental step, which is really learning to be your own best friend, and it’s possible for everyone I say this completely wholeheartedly. I fundamentally know this to be true. Everybody can get there, but you have to have a true desire. desire to do it. Again. For me, the desire was everything because it was life or death. But what if everybody looked at life like that? Right? If I don’t change this about myself? It’s the death. It’s a slow death. What is a slow death? It means that you wake up every day. And are you living your best life versus just mediocre? You wake up and you’re not really excited to get out of bed. You wake up and you can’t wait till this happy hour. I mean, that’s so death to me.

Damona  31:22  

Oh, yeah. And I think now in this time of, of COVID and radical, racial change, I think it does slow death is getting faster. And we’re all seeing our own mortality presented to us and we have a choice. And I love that you say, you say that. Change, get it. You want people to get addicted to change. And that change is something that can really be powerful to create the life that we want. So I think we’re in a really important time be having this conversation, Monica To really inspire people to make a change and to continue to make changes. What, what is one thing that you encourage someone to do today? If they’re feeling all those pressures, and they’re feeling the slow death? How can we make a move to get unstuck, and not not accept the the death sentence that we’ve been taking on? not to get too serious, we

Monica Berg  32:25  

need to

Monica Berg  32:27  

know. I know, like the death sentence.

Damona  32:30  

But you know, I mean, it feels real to me. It feels real to me right away.

Monica Berg  32:36  

I think that as much as I say there’s an option, there is a place for healthy fear. And in fact, in my book, identify three different different types of fear because when you break things down like that, it’s very easy then to overcome them. And we don’t have to go into that if you don’t want to, or we can whatever you want, but with healthy fear, for instance, healthy fear is rooted in real fear. It’s rooted in things that happen right? Like death, disease, sickness growing old and what people do with that kind of fear. They take it all the ways every time like let’s say somebody fears their parents dying, then they think about that. And they ruminate about that thought over and over again or when they’re with their parents. That’s sad, because they’re thinking, Oh, is this the last time I’ll be with them or our days are numbered. Instead, you can use it as a great motivator for change, right? You can say, Okay, I’m going to tell them, I love them. Whenever I see them, I’m going to make sure I’m kind even if I’m annoyed. I’m going to make sure that I enjoy our time together. So I have those memories. Where if a person’s afraid of disease, well, then great, use your time wisely. Eat healthy, don’t have stress, don’t smoke, right? exercise, there’s these things are set for us, actually, to help us be aware of things we do need to pay attention to. So I’m all for that kind of fear. And in terms of change, I think very often, people crave change, but they reject change because we like to be comfortable. we as human beings. We really like our comfort and changes the opposite of that it’s very uncomfortable. The thing is this, if you accept this reality, that change is a constant companion for all of us through life. Think about this. I mean, if I look back to Monica 15 years ago, or 30 years ago, I don’t even recognize her. And I hope that tomorrow, I don’t recognize the version of me that I am today, right? That’s how I approach life now. And it’s very freeing, and it’s very liberating, because the alternative is that you go through life collecting things and accumulating things and then you get terrified. Don’t take this away from me. I worked really hard for this. Oh my god, I can’t lose my job. I worked really hard to get to this position, or this race or this promotion, oh, my God, my house. I’ve got to protect it. I worked really hard for it. And so we go through life collecting things and then we’re afraid we’re going to lose them. But what about this? What if we don’t have that fear? And we say, Okay, I’m so curious about life and where it has to take me and what I have yet to discover that I want to be flexible. That means that day to day again, you wake up you have a plan, you have an idea of what your life should be like Like what your day should unfold like, and then it doesn’t go that way, you have a choice in that moment, I can be upset and write the day off and wait for tomorrow. Or I can look around and say, Okay, so that’s not an option. What else is and if you approach life like that, you’re going to see endless opportunities. And then you’re actually going to be happy. It’s like the formula for happiness.

Damona  35:21  

I love how you said it. We took we took all of the despair, and you turn it into a positive Monica and I too, I’m a change addict. And you know, people have heard me say on the show before, like, I’m not a done person, I’m not finished. I’m evolving and I am excited for all of our listeners to to get to get more, get some of your wisdom and get that inspiration for them to keep pushing to change and evolve as well. Thank you so much for being here. I hope everyone will pick up their copy of rethink love three steps to being the one attracting the one and becoming the one Monica. I think this is just the The beginning of a long friendship and a journey for us to take together. So thank you for inspiring me as well.

Monica Berg  36:05  

Oh, I look forward to that. Thank you so much.

Damona  36:09  

What a delight what an enlightening experience to speak with Monica Berg. I have learned so much from her. I’ve been Kabbalah curious for a while myself, so I’ll keep you posted. As we move along this journey. We’re going to take a quick break, but I have questions from you all and some juicy ones this week. So don’t go anywhere. We’re back. And I am here and ready to answer your dating and relationship questions. This is your favorite segment. Technically dating.

Monica Berg  36:42  

Technically.

Damona  36:44  

This question came to me in an email from Abby. She says I’m 37 and I am so embarrassed to say that I’ve never been in a relationship before. I’ve talked to some therapists and they don’t really know what to say. And it still makes me sad to this day. I’ve been single my whole life and it hurts me knowing this situation that I missed out on simple things like celebrating an anniversary with a guy walking along the beach, watching the sunset celebrating anything, basically, what would you say to help me get over this embarrassment? Is it something that I just have to live with? And stop dwelling on? I’ve been living with it my whole life. And I really don’t know how to heal my heart from this. Happy. Thank you so much for your question. Well, it’s funny, all of the memories that you mentioned, walking on the beach and watching the sunset, I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve done that with my husband. And what it Telegraph’s out to me is that we’ve fallen for it, Abby, we’ve fallen for the myth of romance that we’ve seen in rom com. So those are all moments from movies. They’re not real life. And while you’re yearning for a relationship, I want to be be mindful of What kind of relationship you’re yearning for? If you’re looking for that kind of picture, perfect experience. It doesn’t surprise me that you’ve been in pursuit of that the last I was gonna say 37 years, but hopefully not when you’re a baby. But maybe for the last 25 years you’ve been in search of that happy ending and that picture perfect moment. And that’s really not what real love is about real love. It is those moments you get to celebrate together. But it is also it is a journey and self discovery as I was talking about with Monica. And in terms of the embarrassment, I feel you girl I because I really did not have many serious relationships before I met my husband. And I can certainly relate to that feeling of not being in a committed relationship and feeling like you’re missing out on something That FOMO is real. But I just want you to know you’re not alone, even at 37 there are many other people listening and I get emails from them all the time, who are looking for the same thing that you are. But the important thing is that if you want your life to change as Monica and I are saying earlier, this is the moment to do something about it. Don’t wait for tomorrow. Don’t wait until you’re this perfect version of yourself. Don’t wait until you’ve completed your therapy and you are a done person because change is inevitable and you will grow and evolve with the right partner. So what I want you to do it to release that embarrassment is to focus on the vision of the relationship that you want to create. Because I promise you once you are in that relationship, that time that felt like an eternity when you were when you were single, will be a will be a little blip on the meter of your life. And I want you to visualize I want you to picture what it would be like to be with this person? What are the qualities of this person? How do you feel with this person. And I want you to basically create an ideal mate vision. And once you’ve done that, then you work backwards in you write your dating profile, and you talk to your friends about introductions, and you release the single shame because if you stay in the shame and embarrassment of not having a relationship, you will not be able to shine in the sun as a single person and for people to be able to see you. And then we will cue your dating plan off of your vision of your ideal mate and how you want to feel when you’re in that relationship. I could take you a lot further, but I’ll leave it there for today’s show and I will be doing a women’s group program. So if you are interested in getting in the women’s group program, Abby or anyone else listening that wants to go on this journey with me and do some of these exercises I would love to help you can email me to get on the Advanced list Dimona at damona Hoffman comm there’s also always the 30 day dating playbook, which does some of this work in a very truncated version 30 days of or less, and that’s it. 30 day dating.com. Our next question comes to us from one of our Patreon friends with benefits. This person asks, What advice do you have on interracial dating? And how do you have conversations on what’s happening during these crazy times? Yes, it is a crazy time. But I’m really glad you asked this question because I’ve talked a lot about how to date race open and opening up your parameters or search parameters. But I haven’t talked a lot about the challenges that you might face in engaging in an interracial relationship if you haven’t in the past. And it’s funny because even we talked about bachelor at the top of the show, Rachel Lindsay was saying that she wished for people to not have their first interracial relationship on national television. On the Bachelor. So we’re all aware that there’s going to be friction. But I believe that loving one another and being open to, to crossing racial barriers and blending our cultures in America. And I know I have listeners all over the world. But here, especially because of our history, it’s really important to moving forward in this time. So I’ll give you a couple of steps that I think you need to take and things that you need to think about if you’re embarking on an interracial relationship for the first time. The first thing I hear a lot from people that are in interrelate interracial relationships is that they don’t want to have to educate their partner. But here’s the bottom line. We don’t know what we don’t know. And it’s inevitable that your partner may say something that they don’t understand may be offensive to you. There may be cultural norms, or certain patterns that you have that are under familiar to them. And we have to create a culture of being open to the discussion. And you have to create an environment where your partner can, can voice their questions and concerns that they may have never been able to say to another person, but they feel safe enough to ask it of you. So yeah, there’s gonna be a little bit of an education process. And yeah, it might be a little bit exhausting. I have to tell you, I’ve gotten so many messages from friends that are basically asking me to explain blackness to them. And I don’t have the rulebook. Certainly myself. Just living in the skin gives me one experience, but there’s so much more out there to experience and learn but if you can’t learn from your partner, who can you learn from? The next thing I’ll tell you is that we have to remember where we are in history. Our historical memory is very short. The the interracial marriage ban just ended in 1968. We just celebrated loving day, just a little over a week ago, my parents got married in 1978. And people would look at them my father’s white, my mother’s black, they would look at them with the stain when they would go out. And that’s really not that long ago. So the you have to consider the history that came before this moment that you’re in and realize that not everybody is ready to accept this and some of you listening right now, might not be ready to accept this conversation. And that’s okay. But we’re just beginning we’re just beginning the talk now, many many years later. So, when you are bringing your significant other around your family around your friend circle, you need to be aware of what the environment is and set your partner up for success. So if there are certain things about your culture, that they need to understand certain cultural norms, if there are certain Things that you want to make off limits to your friends and family. Or if you know that you have family that just is not going to be open and accepting of this person, then you have to set your partner up for success. And you have to create your new traditions together. And this is actually true of any any new relationship, whether you are the same race, and the same religion or not. Everyone has different traditions and cultural norms. And you’re always blending traditions when you’re blending two families, two people together. So when you’re creating your own traditions, I want you to remember that you are one another’s champion, you’re always on the other person’s team. And this may be a very challenging thing when you’re going up against decades and decades and, and even centuries of preconceived notions about who someone is based on the color of their skin. You are Trailblazer if you’re choosing this path, you’re choosing to be in an interracial relationship, even here in 2020.

Monica Berg  46:07  

But

Damona  46:08  

it’s up to you to lock arms with your partner and remind them that you are united front, and that we are pushing forward. Together, no matter what. I hope those tips are helpful. This is obviously a deep conversation that we could spend a lot of time talking about. And this is just the beginning. But I appreciate you being open to asking the question and to taking this journey with your partner. That’s all for Episode 315 of dates and mates. You can find Monica on all of the socials at Monica Berg 74 or at rethink life dotnet and we’ll put those links in the show notes as well. We are rapidly approaching the end of season seven of dates and mates man this season has flown by and I am still processing Everything that we’ve talked about and I am already planning what’s going to be in store for season eight. We have one more super awesome episode coming this month and then in July I’ll be putting on a month long dating masterclass called manifesting your mate. It’ll be a parts meditation parts inspiration, totally different format something new for you to explore in July. I’ll give you more info on that next week. But in the meantime, don’t forget to join the Patreon group@patreon.com slash dates and mates. And if you are looking for a deeper conversation on how to get that highest love that you want, and you deserve, please join me. We will put all of the links from today’s show and the show recap at data Nate’s comm I’m at damona Hoffman on all the socials. keep those questions coming now I states are opening up and people are ready to date. I know you have a lot of questions and I want to give you the answers. Next week we’ll be talking about how to get your x back with Lee Wilson a relationship and marriage coach. Until then, I wish you love light and strength and of course, happy dating

Cuddle Buddies & Practical Attraction

CUDDLE BUDDIES ARE IN

It’s another sunny day in COVID-19 racial equality uprising land. And yes, we’re still mad as hell, we’re still exhausted as hell, but we’re still here for you to help you through the challenges that you’re facing in love.

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After 3 months of quarantine many of us are eager to get back out and start dating or to find a new normal with our mates and we have an intriguing guest talking to me today on how to write your new rules on love.

Today, we’re talking to Adam Lyons, a dating coach who is all about practical dating and attraction. He’s made headlines in the past for his polyamorous relationships and he’s here to encourage you to live your love life by your own rules.

But first, we have headlines to share: 

DATING DISH (1:50)

Why you should be upfront about your political views in dating at this time

There is a lot of political tension in the world right now and Dating.com has seen a 43% increase in users talking about politics on the platform. Maybe right now is not the time to find love across party lines? Damona breaks it down.

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Do men with 9 to 5s make good life partners?

Comedian B. Simone made headlines this week after an interview on the Nick Cannon show where she said that 9-5 men were not right for her. Damona has thoughts.

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Your government wants you to get some… safely of course

This week, Boris Johnson, PM of the UK, announced that his government encourages singles to find one household to mingle with – a support bubble or a cuddle buddy. They also ask that if you have sex, consider wearing a mask…. Damona definitely has something to say about this one.

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PRACTICAL ATTRACTION (12:00)

Damona talks to Adam Lyons – author, public speaker, and an expert in practical dating and attraction.

You might actually know him from a pretty big interview on the Today Show where he shared his polyamorous relationships and it has been covered extensively by tabloids across the world.

So when Damona decided to have him on the show, as someone who usually speaks about monogamous relationships, we expected some pretty big disagreements BUT in fact, Damona was surprised on how much his teachings align with hers.

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With him we discuss:

  • Hookup Culture is still here
  • Rampant STIs throughout the world prove that we’re not ready to hookup again
  • Ghosting: Why you should take responsibility for it
  • Dating starts with women: how to let him know you want him to approach you
  • Why you should never tell someone you’ve loved them in secret
  • Polyamory: Monogamy, but more love and communication

Find Adam on Instagram at the @thedatingcoach and get to know his special ACE formula for dating at theaceformulablueprint.com!

TECHNICALLY DATING (42:46)

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Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • Jenny from Waukegan, IL – Do you think it’s better to play hard to get or show more interest when first matching up with a guy? I’ve tried both methods and have gotten the same results of talking for a week and then nothing. 
  • Jodi – I am ready to date again after 10 years divorced and am talking to an online match, but I find that in the time of COVID this dating thing is more difficult than I imagined. We have been speaking for six weeks, 5 facetime dates, one socially distanced coffee date and daily texts. I am honestly ready to risk some more face to face interaction with him but he seems to be moving too slowly and I am not sure if it’s the pandemic or a classic case of “He’s Just Not That Into You.” His texting has slowed down a lot this past week and I am not sure if it is comfort or slow ghosting. I don’t want to sound thirsty! HELP! He is 47 and I am 42.

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:12  

Hello lovers, it’s another sunny day and COVID-19 racial equality uprising land. And yes, I’m still mad as hell. And yes, I’m still exhausted as hell. But yes, I’m still here for you. And I’m here to help you through the challenges that you’re still facing in love. After three months of quarantine, many of us are eager to get back out and start dating, or to find a new normal with our mates. And I have an intriguing guest talking to me today about how to write your new rules on love. Today, I’ll be joined by Adam Lyons. He’s a dating coach who’s all about practical Dating and attraction. He’s made headlines in the past for his polyamorous relationships. And he’s here to encourage you to live your love life by your own rules. But first, we have current events to discuss, like why you should be upfront about your political views during this time on dating apps. And do guys with a nine to five job make good life partners, plus the next step in Corona dating right here right now. And then as always, at the end of the show, Adam and I will answer your questions including should you be playing hard to get and what if he’s just not that into you? All that and more on today’s dates and made so you’re ready for this? Then let’s dish these dating dish.

dating.com urges people to find the right time to bring up politics in dating. Dating calm has actually seen a 43% increase crease in users talking about politics on the platform. And this is nothing new. What are right around, let’s see 2016 I did some episodes about how the polarized political climate was causing people to put that first on their dating profiles. And it was the primary filter that a lot of people were using before even engaging with someone online. And so we had a few years to settle back into our ways. We had a global pandemic, and a racial equality uprising. And here we are, again, nothing like those kind of factors to push you back to the political, your sides of the political spectrum. So a lot of people on dating calm said that they would not consider dating someone with opposing political views and that they’ve even previously ended Relationships due to opposing political views. Two thirds of users responded in that way. But many people said that bringing politics into the discussion can be a really big turnoff to them, and that they will often go someone shortly after the conversation. So where does that leave us? We want to use politics as a filter. But at the same time, nobody wants to talk about it because it’s super unsexy to talk about it in that day. And that has always been one of the top things, no things to never talk about. You never talk about religion. You never talk about politics. And I always say you never talk about sex on the first date. But where that leaves us is we need to stop using a political affiliation to mean a whole set of values about someone I hate to break it to you but we still are going to have to do the hard work and have in depth meaningful conversations that can indicate what someone’s values are. beyond just what box they check at the polls. And yes, I understand that certain political parties do have certain belief systems that people in those parties are very vocal about. But you have to remember that everybody is an individual. And just because they’re either red or blue, that doesn’t necessarily mean that they aren’t a match for you. Talking about looking for a match. I don’t know if y’all saw this, this Instagram video from be Simone. She’s a comedian and instagrammer who sells books on manifesting the life and the love life that you want. And she did this whole video about why men with nine to five jobs just aren’t gonna work for her. She’s like, I’m up at 3am answering emails. He won’t understand that. And I want to be very clear that I disagree with be Simone that men with nine to five jobs are not a good Match because I think a lot of people took that away from the video. And that’s not what she’s saying. She’s saying they’re not a good match for her. And I’m totally on board with the idea that manifesting the right person for you is what you should be doing. So I hear this a lot, especially from people that are in unique kinds of jobs. I work with a lot of people in the entertainment industry that have these very demanding jobs that work all hours like be Simone people might be on set, they might be traveling. And if you have a more traditional job, you might not understand that and you might not have the flexibility, like, like some of my friends, for example, in entertainment, their partners have to go on set for three months or six months and they just say, Okay, I’m going to uproot my life and move to where they are, and we’re just going to be on set for the next three to six months. Not everybody can do that. So you really need to do the mindset work and that’s why all of my dating coaching programs, whether it’s a 30 day dating playbook or my VA IP programs that are one on one, they all begin with the mindset piece. And the mindset piece is not just getting clear on what you want and manifesting it as be someone says, but it’s also about looking at your values, the lifestyle you want. And remember those long term goals and shared values are two of the most important factors in compatibility. If you figure those things out, like be Simone has, and you put that out into the world, whether it’s the way that you filter on dating apps, or what you ask people for when they’re setting you up with someone, then you’re going to be a lot more satisfied in the relationship because it’s going to be in alignment.

If you are across the pond in the UK, I know we have a lot of new listeners from from the UK and first welcome and also I have to say, I’m so sorry because your government seems to have Coronavirus matching all wrong. They said in it that in the UK Boris Johnson announced that he’s easing the country’s Coronavirus restrictions by allowing people to pair up in support bubbles. So a support bubble can be two people or two households that can spend time together inside each other’s homes. And they do not need to say they say two meters apart here we say six feet apart. You can do it you could do the correlation there, figure out how far it is from whatever country you’re listening. Right now, it means that you can blend you can create a cohort, which is ultimately good, but we have to back up to what the previous restriction was where they were basically saying it was illegal for you to make contact with the person that did not live in your home. They said you can’t go inside somebody else’s house. You can’t be with other people. Unless you’re outside and And you certainly cannot stay the night. But the funny thing about this, this article and what I’ve been hearing from the British government is that they seem to have no understanding of the way that people actually mate and date and relate. They they suggested that sex with yourself or with others at a distance is possible. So that’s the safest way to avoid getting Coronavirus. But they also said maybe it’s your thing, maybe it’s not, but during COVID-19 we’re a face covering that covers your nose and your mouth. And that’s a good way to add a layer of protection during sex. And the during sex part, like literally just made me

just made me fall out of my chair. Can you imagine having sex with somebody and you’re not doing roleplay and you’re just wearing a mask? And what about all the other bodily fluids that are being shared? We don’t know if they have access A live virus in them and we do know as I said on the show a few weeks ago that Corona virus is present in the sperm of infected people. So what’s the point of men wearing a mask to not breathe on them if you are sharing bodily fluids inside of them makes no sense to me. Sorry to get you know a little more graphic than I usually get on that one. But I think ultimately, it is a good thing to have a cuddle buddy during Coronavirus. You know, we’re three months in now. And I know a lot of you are feeling really isolated and lonely and feeling that skin hunger just wanting to be touched. I have to tell you, I hugged my mom today. I just said The hell with it. And we just have to blend our families because how long can my mom be isolated she lives alone, and I hugged her and I cried y’all because it had been three months since I had touched my mom and I it showed me how much emotion had built up inside, from not having that connection. So I know if I’m feeling it and I’ve been, I’ve been touched like way too much in the last 4434 months with with my kids and my husband at home all day every day. So I know those of you that are single and that are living alone are really feeling that that desire to have someone in your life. So I say you heard it here for the first time. I say it’s okay, as long as you’re being safe and you know, that person doesn’t have any symptoms. And ideally, there’s retesting here in Los Angeles and I know in a lot of other places, ideally, you’re getting tested and knowing what your Coronavirus risk tolerance is. If you need to be touched, if you need to create a support bubble with you, and a friend or you and an F buddy. I think we’re at the point where it’s like, y’all need to do what you need to do. Those are the headlines for this week. I’d love to know what you think if you agree or disagree about men who have nine to five are manifesting your mate or political differences, or even Coronavirus, support bubbles. Maybe you disagree with wearing a mask during sex, I don’t know, but I want to hear about it. You can of course, messaged me anytime on social media. I’m on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook at damona Hoffman. You can also join the Patreon friends with benefits@patreon.com slash dates and mates and you can even help shape some of the content that’s going to be on dates and mates going forward. And trust me, you’re going to want to stick around for this next interview. I’m talking to Adam Lyons and we’ll be covering everything from attraction to dating advice to even polyamory. It’s a provocative and thought provoking interview. So don’t go anywhere. We’ll be right back. Welcome back. I’m talking to Adam Lyons he’s an author, public speaker and an expert in practical dating and attraction. You might actually know him from a pretty big interview on the Today Show where he shared his polyamorous relationship, and it’s been covered extensively by tablets across the world. So when I decided to have him on the show, as someone who normally speaks about monogamous relationships, I expected some pretty big disagreements. But in fact, I was surprised at how much of his teachings align with mine. So get ready lovers because your world is about to be rocked by Adam Lyons. Let’s give him some big smooches.

Adam Lyons  12:43  

Thank you so much for having me.

Damona  12:45  

It is so great to be here with you because I know you and I have some different opinions. We have some different perspectives on dating relationships, but you’ve been working as a dating coach for many, many years and you’ve helped a lot of people move into the kind of roles That they want. And you’re also up to speed on the trends and what’s happening. So let’s get into it.

Adam Lyons  13:09  

I’m down.

Damona  13:10  

Okay, here we are a few weeks after many states are now reopening their their the Rios guidelines, they’re strict guidelines. And I have said first of all I’ve said for a long time to my clients and to the listeners of the show, you better not You better not be dating during COVID. Do you have people that have been going out on dates and have been like, tiptoeing into the waters even before their states are opened up?

Adam Lyons  13:40  

I do I have people, I have people that have been swamped with requests for dates. It’s crazy. What’s been happening. I’ve been a dating coach for 15 years, and I have never in my entire history of teaching dating, had students messaged me and say, I’m being swamped with people inviting me on dates. And I don’t know what to do. It just came out of nowhere. I mean, we’re successful. But this is crazy. Some of these students having eight times of success, and we know this because we keep track of that data to help the students grow.

Damona  14:12  

What do you think is the biggest change then that’s causing that? Is it because we can’t? It’s not as easy to move offline? Or is there like a desperation happening? What’s going on?

Adam Lyons  14:23  

Yeah, there’s so many little details that happening. So one of the first things things that’s happening is obviously, people are bored. And when they’re bored, they’re looking for human companionship and connection. And one of the fastest and easiest ways to meet a stranger is online dating. You know, there are friend apps where you can like make a friend but the reality is most people are going straight to online dating to have a bit of flirting, if they’re single, that is exactly where they’re going. Now this unique time that we’re in like the COVID-19 thing. There is in the media, a lot of confusion about how really is whichever side of the fence you sit on you Can’t deny that people are coming to conflict over this. And because of that, it creates, you know, an element of people being unsure about whether it is okay or isn’t okay. And so people do that. Not very good test where they look with their eyes and make the decision based purely on what they see. And they’re like, well, I don’t look like I have COVID-19. And this person I’m seeing online doesn’t look like they have COVID-19. So I’m sure we don’t have it. Let’s give it a go. And I know this mentality from sexually transmitted diseases, because we often see this with people saying, I don’t need to get tested. I can tell I don’t have anything and they don’t understand that they could absolutely be a carrier. And if you are being promiscuous, you need to get tested on a regular basis.

Damona  15:46  

So what is your your philosophy for daters? Both on STD, STI test testing, and COVID-19 testing.

Adam Lyons  15:56  

So yeah, a lot. One of the biggest things that I refuse to do As a dating coach is I refuse to dictate how somebody has to live their life. One of the first things we do is an assessment. And in the assessment, I get students to write down what they want and what they hope to achieve. And the very first thing we decided before we even signed somebody up, you can’t just give me money and work with me, we have to have alignment, I have to agree with what it is that you’re trying to achieve. And I have to want to help you do it. If what you write down is the things that you want to get are things that go against my moral code, things that I just don’t want to do. We just say thank you, but no, thank you. We’re not the right company for you. So we know the students that come to us are people that we’re in alignment with. Now, having said that, COVID-19 came in the middle of a lot of students who had already signed up with us. They knew that if they planned on being promiscuous, we were going to recommend that they do STD testing, and that we would, you know, say hey, this is serious, you need to do this COVID-19 kind of fell in that category. In many ways. We treated that as another form of STD just one that you could get by being in proximity with somebody. And so for us the due diligence around that procedure kicked in. So it was like, if you’re going to meet people, you really should look at going to get tested. You want to do things slowly. And surely don’t just jump into a relationship with somebody, make sure you have phone conversations, first text conversations. First, do virtual dating first, just anything you can to really expand upon your interactions with somebody before you make a commitment to go and meet them. If you are going to go and meet somebody, which we don’t really recommend, unless you’ve both been tested, and you know, everything’s okay, then you should really take some serious precautions to make sure that you limit whether you to see anybody else, you know, we recommended taking two weeks of virtual dating for a while, where you know, you can actually talk about where you’re going, where you’re who you’re talking to interacting with, and have almost this period of together quarantine where you’re not actually together until you say okay, we look pretty good. Let’s go for this. Now. That was one of the things that we were recommending, and we were telling everyone you obviously run it by a doctor see what they say,

Damona  17:55  

huh? Yes, I’ve been a big fan of the virtual dating for a long time. And I think now it’s it’s such a great tool. It’s so great that we have these these apps that are available to us to be able to connect. I’m

Adam Lyons  18:11  

curious though, you said you always do an assessment at the beginning, and ask them what they want, what to the majority of people come to you for. Everyone wants something different. But there is a there is a standard, but it does tend to deviate between the sexes. You’ll often find most men that apply are looking to meet the one, but they don’t want to settle down right now. So they say I’m looking for somebody I really want to settle down with, but I don’t really know what I want. So I’d like to go on a bunch of dates meet a bunch of people to identify exactly what I want. Most women will say, I’m tired of meeting people that it looks like everything’s good. And then suddenly, everything just collapses and it goes cold. And now I don’t know what’s going on. So they tend to be the two camps and there are other things but they tend to be the two predominant

Damona  18:59  

that’s interesting to me that you said most of the men say they’re looking for the one. Because a lot of the women that, that write into the show have this feeling that all men are players, all men just want to hook up. But you’re not sorry.

Adam Lyons  19:14  

I it’s so funny. I see the I work with men and women. And I see exactly what you’re saying. And I see the exact opposite. Men saying, women just want to find a better deal. They want to upgrade. They, you know, they want me to be six foot tall, but I’m only five foot 10. And you know, so when I’m with them, I feel they keep looking at taller men or laughing of their friends about how they want somebody to say it’s hysterical because I see both sides. I see you know men’s worrying about you know, women constantly trying to play the field. But I see women saying that, you know, men don’t want to settle down. I think the reality is we might as well just look at humans, and recognize that most humans actually have no idea what they’re doing when it comes to dating.

Adam Lyons  19:54  

Yeah.

Adam Lyons  19:56  

Right.

Adam Lyons  19:57  

Unless you’ve sat down, read some books. Put some time Put some studying in. I mean, we have sex education in school, which is like, what maybe a couple of hours of class size schools? Not all anymore. Right? But where’s the relationship? education? Right? Where’s the emotional intelligence lessons? Where’s the lessons in how to handle conflict? Or when you meet somebody that is has clearly had trauma in the past? What’s the best way to handle them? How do you, you know, handle letting somebody down? How do you say no, in a way that doesn’t make you feel ostracized from a social group? These to me are basic one on one lessons that all human beings should know. They’re never taught. And if somebody hasn’t bothered to sit you down and say in a nice way where you can hear it and your ego isn’t hearing that as a critique on yourself, then you’re one of the lucky few.

Damona  20:40  

Yeah, and I also look at flirting as a learned skill to and attraction. And I know you teach this also in your formula, like, especially I think the message to women is that we should just know how to do this. You should just know how to be attractive to a man. And I feel like a lot of men. Maybe I’ll get hate mail for this book. Feel like a lot of men think, oh, any woman can get, she could get a guy just by going on an app, they get, they all get tons of messages, and they could get laid anytime they want. And that is just not the experience of a lot of our listeners and a lot of our clients. And these are attractive women. It’s not like, you know, they are they it’s not like they’re an automatic swipe left. For a lot of guys. It’s just developing that, that skill set of attraction. What do you think about that?

Adam Lyons  21:35  

I mean, you’re not wrong. And you know, in any way everything you’re saying there is exactly what I’ve seen. I think, you know, one of the key elements when it comes to dating and people is we always think that everyone else has it better. All men will look at the most beautiful women and say it would be easy for them. And then they like but it’s very difficult for us men, but then there are men who it’s very easy for Then, and yet not easy for other women. But that would be the same as anything, we don’t have to look at this as dating, we could look at this as running a marathon, there’ll be some men and women that it will just be very easy for them. And for others, it will be very difficult. And that’s all to do with how much time energy and effort you’ve put into studying and learning how to do that. I actually I have a great article that I write where I take a photograph of myself twice within 20 seconds. One picture is the worst dating app picture you could ever have. And it looks terrible. And the other one looks like a professional model photoshoot. Both are taken on my phone. And it’s just shows that I understand how lighting works. I understand how to pose correctly. And I show this to show people that you can learn how to portray yourself in the right way. But when you’re competing with somebody who knows what they’re doing, yeah, it’s gonna be difficult for you, because this other person knows. Mm hmm.

Damona  22:53  

Yeah, he’s so much that you said really resonates for me. I’d love to link to that. If I can. For our audience, because that that encapsulates a lot of what I tell people about marketing yourself, right, like, and kind of you have to get out of your head, I think you said a little bit of this earlier. If you are so emotionally invested in the app and the results and what’s, what’s happening and each individual interaction, you will make yourself crazy, right, especially at the rates that people are dating right now, I was just talking to one of my friends at OkCupid. And he was saying that they’ve seen like almost a 20% increase in conversations in messaging that’s happening in the app. So you’ll you’ll make yourself crazy if you invest in each and every one but when you step back and look at it, almost like you’re marketing yourself as a product. And you know, like you’re selling a product it’s like some people are gonna want it some people aren’t but you’re not going to spend all this energy like chasing the the person that Didn’t want the product or being angry at the rejection.

Adam Lyons  24:04  

And I love I love. You know, there isn’t really another word for it for rejection, but I absolutely love it when students come to me and say, you know, I don’t want to get rejected or I’m tired of getting rejected, and it cracks me up because I’m like, do they know you? How can you reject someone if you don’t know them? I was like, all that happened is the elements of you that they met, were not exactly what they were looking at at this point. But did you particularly tailor the elements, you showed them to what they wanted to see? Did you communicate effectively all the time that you’ve helped out at the local animal shelter? Do they really know you? Or in reality? Did you just make a couple of mistakes and this one particular person isn’t really interested? And how much do you know about them? Are they an axe murderer? Did you do your due diligence to check into that? Yeah, and people are like, Why don’t know if they’re an axe murderer. I’m like, well, you probably should have checked that first. You know, like, doesn’t matter how nice the hair is. And, and this is the reality most people just don’t think about it. One that cracks me up is I sit down with somebody, when we first when they join our training program, we get them to identify their ideal person. And I have a rule and if their ideal person, if any quality on that list is something that can be fixed with either getting your hair done or something you can buy over the counter, or you know, a little bit of exercise, or changing clothing, if it’s anything that essentially could just be fixed within, you know, a very short period of time, it’s not allowed to be a quality. Also, it can’t be a quality if everybody else in a room of like 20 people would agree. So for example, if you said, I want somebody who’s funny, it’s like everyone wants somebody who’s funny, you don’t get to add that quality. You need to put unique things down, and you suddenly find that no one can write anything. They’ve got nothing to write on this list, because they’ve only ever just either absorbed what the generic public have said someone who’s fun and nice and caring and knows to put me first but also doesn’t put themselves down right like all these generic things, and someone who is you know, dark haired, blonde or works out these other qualities that are just easy to fix. And once you remove all that, they realize they have no idea what they’re looking for. And when we get to the exercise, I say, and that’s why you’re struggling, because you don’t know what you want.

Damona  26:13  

Yeah, having that clarity is really important. I love the way that you phrase that, Adam, that it’s also about, like being unique in what you’re looking for. Because that’s, that’s really what I teach people on this podcast, that you have to let your own unique qualities shine through. And I would think if you actually turn it around, and I don’t know if you do this in your program, but ask people to list what makes them date worthy, or, you know, whatever data bowl or attractive that they probably struggle if you gave them those same parameters.

Adam Lyons  26:50  

Oh, obviously we actually it’s funny. We have some like telling you that the secret sauce, but we have we have this cool. You know, obviously there is this old practice where you rate somebody on a scale of one to 10. And one of our favorite things is to flip that on its script. And so we say to somebody, okay, we would like you to write down on a scale of one to 10, how attractive you are. And we get them to judge themselves on a scale of one to 10. And then we actually have 10 criteria listed, that most people that we’ve discovered, consider these qualities attractive. And these 10 qualities of things like leadership are things like being thoughtful, I think, like having ambition

Damona  27:29  

10 1010 for me,

Adam Lyons  27:31  

exactly. These are, these are key qualities. And so we’ve got, you know, humor, that kind of stuff. So we have a full list of these 10. And we get them to identify on the list how many of these things they can say that they’re competent at, not perfect at not the best, but just competent at and it shocks me, the really confident people, like I’m an eight out of 10 they’re like, oh, four, and then you get people like, I’m like a three, and then they’re like, wow, I’m like a nine. And you’re like, yeah, you know, yeah, maybe maybe you you’re not in shape, because that’s one of the things is like being healthy, so maybe you’re not in shape. shape. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that you know, that you’re unattractive. And in fact, like healthy and we differentiate this healthy doesn’t mean having a perfect body. In fact, quite often, it does not mean that you see people that go to these bodybuilding contests and stray off towards that throwing up because of what they’re doing to their body, and it’s not healthy. You know, that healthy lifestyle just means understanding the nutrients your body needs, and taking it, it means things like bathing regularly looking after your teeth. These are the things that make somebody attractive. And so when we have our physical attributes, it’s all about you know, going to the dentist regularly and stuff like that. And it was like, but don’t have to look like you know, if you’ve got these huge muscles, like most, most people don’t really care about that. But you know, you probably should be able to walk up the stairs without running out of breath and collapsing on the floor. You know, that’s probably a thing you have to be able to do. Yeah,

Damona  28:50  

are attractive.

Adam Lyons  28:52  

Right. Yeah, exactly. And so these you know, or be able to not, you know, in the middle of a hot and heavy bedroom session like wait, woman, I get my breath back.

Damona  29:01  

Right, good. Yeah, like take a shower

Adam Lyons  29:04  

towel now. Yeah, exactly like wait Round Round two in 10 minutes. Like, I just, I gotta I can’t breathe like I can’t finish it, right. So it’s that kind of stuff. So that that level of healthy. But these 10 qualities, we found absolutely amazing at getting people to identify where they are attractive and to work out what skill sets they should be focusing on. And it really does change that dynamic because men are, in my opinion, are overly obsessed with physical attributes. And women tend to be far less interested in that. But also, women tend to struggle when it comes to reading men, which is funny because they want men to be able to read them. But most women don’t understand that your average guy really just wants to be told what to do, you know, because they don’t want to get it wrong. And so women would do a lot better if they actually just said to men, hey, just so you know, I am interested in you. I just want to make that really clear. And if you invited me to dinner, I’d say yes, and most men That’s like what they want that Oh, thankfully, yes. Oh, yeah, please.

Damona  30:03  

But wait, wait, wait, hold on before you go on Adam. I know, I know what our listeners are going to say. I’m in agreement with you. But

Adam Lyons  30:12  

our listeners are going to say, but isn’t that the man’s job? Shouldn’t they take the initiative now if I take that away from them, and we did an episode a couple weeks ago on a woman who, who asked her man to marry her, and it worked out fine, but I mean, even then, I had on my socials, people were like, Oh, I would never do that. I would never ask a man out. So how do you fine tune that process? Or do you think that’s just antiquated? Like, do we need to just get over those stupid gender roles? I think it was a psychologist by the name of more in the 1980s did a study on American shopping malls, where they studied the courtship rituals of males and females in the shopping mall environment in their teenage years. And they found that the success rate of a male approaching a female was zero unless the woman initiate First, and this was across hundreds of shopping malls and instances.

Adam Lyons  31:05  

And can you define initiated? Because I think there’s a difference?

Adam Lyons  31:08  

Yeah, I don’t this is where women say, Well, I don’t want to take initiative. And it’s like, well, it gets complicated. What actually should happen is a woman will give something that we call an approach invitation, a very clear invitation that you can move forward. Now, I’m going to reword this, as we’re in post, you know, 2019, and we’re going to call this consent. Women need to make it very clear that a man has consent to take charge and do what he wants. That’s the missing piece. And when women ease back and say, Okay, well, I’m not going to do anything if he wants me he’ll pursue. She’s ignoring the fact that society especially now has been really trying to be very clear about men need to be focused on consent, and a lot of them are listening.

Damona  31:49  

Whereas the sexy way today, we can ask for consent, Adam.

Adam Lyons  31:53  

So a sexy way that men can ask for women can

Damona  31:56  

women can ask for consent, or like in that way mall setting. I know, I know, none of you are going to the mall. But in it, you know, we’re moving off offline now into IRL dating. How can a woman show show interest or show that she’s giving consent for a man to approach her?

Adam Lyons  32:17  

So one of my favorite, we have these things called statements of intent. And a statement of intent is where you’re basically making it clear like, Hey, I have intent for something to happen. It doesn’t have to happen. I’m not saying you have to do it. But I just want to put it out there that like I have intent. And so one of the things that I’ll often say, and I get my students to say male or female makes a difference. You say, you don’t think you’re attractive, right? Just that one phrase is killer. Oh, that’s

Damona  32:42  

so that’s so vulnerable, though.

Adam Lyons  32:46  

It absolutely is. And remember, they can’t reject you if they don’t know you. So there’s nothing wrong with that. In fact, what you’re actually being is will remove vulnerable and replace it with honest if you find somebody attractive, you should tell them and you know, it’s really cool. It’s absolutely okay to tell someone you find them attractive, whether you date them or don’t date them. And whether it leads to anything. me telling you I find you attractive doesn’t mean that that now we have today is just an invitation. It’s just me putting out there the first step pages. So you know, what I love about this is men or women can do this, it makes no difference at all. It doesn’t matter, any gender, anybody anywhere, have you identify whatever you’re interested in, you can just say to somebody, hey, do you I find you attractive? And it starts the conversation. That’s all it’s designed to do. And the person can say, Oh, thank you so much for that. I appreciate it. And then off they go. Right. And so then it’s like, Okay, cool. So that was that’s not going anywhere. But what it gives them the ability to reject you in the nicest way they can go thank you and move on. On the other hand, if they want something to happen, all they have to say is the same thing back to you. Well, I find you attractive too. Wow.

Damona  33:51  

That is powerful. And it’s probably Yeah, I hope everyone will

Adam Lyons  33:54  

try this out. It’s so fun as well like and the cool thing about it is Do you know how much of a boost is To say it to somebody who is a friend, genuinely a friend. And you know, sometimes if you’ve known somebody for a long time, you know, people get in these like little crushes and stuff. But that particular phrase can work really well, especially if you remove the outcome. So I know this is something that you spoke about earlier. And I agree 100% where you say somebody’s like, Hey, you know, I don’t I’m not worried about the outcome. I just want to let you know. And so you could say to somebody, Look, I know we’ve known each other a long time, and I have no expectations by anything, but I feel like you should know something I’ve been holding in for a long time. And you know, we’re friends. I’ve always wanted to tell you the truth about anything. And yet there’s one thing I’ve kept quiet. I just, do you know that I find you attractive, like really attractive.

Damona  34:38  

How do you like come back from that if it’s not mutual? I actually, I just got an email this week from a listener who had that experience. She expressed to her male best friend that she had feelings for him and he didn’t feel the same way and she’s really struggling. I know we’re not even moving into technically dating to answer questions, yet. But it just, it just really struck a chord that it’s exact situation that you’re talking about.

Adam Lyons  35:05  

I got you. So there’s some real deep little details here. When you say, I’m telling you my feelings, you’re actually taking your emotions and making it somebody else’s problem. That’s where conflict tends to arrive. It’s very hard to respond to how do I handle your feelings? They’re yours. I don’t know what to do with them. And if I don’t want to deal with them, you just gave them to me like, Ah, that’s a problem. So instead, when you say the phrase, like, do you know that I find you attractive? It’s, it’s a meeting, I’m owning it, I find you attractive. I’m just curious if you know that that’s a fact. But it’s mine. It’s not yours to have. So what’s great about this is I’m not actually being like I’m in love with you. I’ve held this for so long, which is where the conflict would come from, because now they’re in a difficult situation. I’m just saying I find them attractive. So in the situation that’s going on with the person that wrote into you, is difficult because they’ve obviously probably taken a lot of courage to share that, and it’s not reciprocated, and now they’ve got to handle it. So in these situations, I asked them Do you want to keep the friendship? Because right now there’s an awkwardness because the friendship isn’t going to turn into a relationship. Now you know that. So we’ve got to see you being true. Did you really care about them as a friend? Or were you hoping to use friendship as a means to seduce them? Because if you were the seductions over, it’s, it’s not going anywhere now. So now you have to decide if you want the friend. If you truly want them as a friend, then it’s kind of on you to maintain that because you put them in the awkward situation. So you kind of need to be the one to fix it. You need to own up to that. And if you don’t care about the friendship, if you have to date them, then it’s time to move on to let them go keep them as a distant friend that can be a Facebook friend, you know, but but move on and go and find something else now because because that didn’t work. And in general, that doesn’t work. Hmm. Well, you know what, thank you, like really

Damona  36:46  

clarified something that I think I think I was missing like you said, I was I was listening to someone talked the other day, they said, just because someone sends you feelings doesn’t mean you need to act. after delivery, whether it’s like anger, just, you know, out and about or something like this. So, you know, that clarifies it. And hopefully that’s helpful for our listener that wrote in. I did just want to talk as because we’re running out of time, and I’m like, really talking to you. And there’s so much more here. But I’m curious as we are moving out of the quarantine, how this is really going to affect data and culture overall. Do you think that people are going to be more tentative about moving offline or once the floodgates open? Like is it all going to be back to hookup culture as as it was?

Adam Lyons  37:44  

It’s, I mean, it’s, it’s already bursting at the seams. We’ve got people forget dating. People are just itching to get out and go and meet people and interact and you’re seeing it spill over in the media. So even if we just ignore dating, you could see people desperate to go and do that. Somebody said to me recently phrase, I do a lot of business consulting, you know, I have my dating company. I’m also a business consultant. And they said, the year 2000 is where the internet went mainstream, but it wasn’t until 2020 then it was fully absorbed into society. And, and I think we’ve really seen that now. Like, there are more people with home offices, Facebook is considering, you know, staying with home offices and working remotely. I know our company is sticking with working remotely, we we have no need to reopen our office. So I think that actually the virtual dating is here to stay. I think that a lot of these cultural shifts are here to stay. And so having said that, the hookup culture never really went away. And that’s the hard part. There are so many people that are still meeting up during quality quarantine doing quarantine dating, I think it was. I don’t remember the exact country. I think it was Sweden actually recommended people have a quarantine date if you’re single and move in together during this period of time. It’s funny enough, my next door neighbor got a quarantine girlfriend. He found somebody online at the start of quarantine. was like, Hey, we should move in together. And they’ve been living together through the entire thing often never going on a single date. They just moved in.

Damona  39:06  

Oh my god, how’s that working out?

Adam Lyons  39:09  

They get them great. They spend every evening cooking together and they don’t

Adam Lyons  39:13  

hear like dreams and like,

Adam Lyons  39:15 

think she’s running on the wall. Yeah, she’s falling in love and professed her love to him. And he’s confused and doesn’t know how he feels. But he really likes her. And so yeah, it’s crazy. It’s like a world where it’s almost like an arranged marriage that nobody else arranged except for COVID-19. It’s Yeah, it’s it’s a Yeah, it’s a really unique experience. So, um, yeah, I think that there’s a lot of societal changes that have happened now. And this is just the new normal. And, you know, I think the hookup culture, it never went away. I mean, you just have to look back at the Roman times and the ancient Greeks to see they had a wonderful you know, polyamorous lifestyle going on. And, you know, that’s always been part of human nature. Whether it’s somebody chose to practice it or not, it’s obviously completely up to them, but it is always there. You know, we can look at you know, Woodstock And you know, the swinging 60s. So yeah, there’s a lot of elements to humans where we do like doing this, this kind of like hookup culture. And I think that now more than ever, we’re going to see it returned, people are going to be craving physical attention. And they’re going to be, you know, trying to meet up with the people that have been dating virtually. And that will naturally lead to human interaction.

Damona  40:22  

And I’m not telling tales out of school, Adam, but I understand you have been in polyamorous relationships for a long time. Right? Uh huh. So tell us if there’s anyone that’s poly cure. Curious. That’s listening right now. Are there like certain rules or guidelines? Or just what is the framework to even begin to explore that?

Adam Lyons  40:51  

Yeah, so the number one rule about in my opinion, the number one rule about any relationship it doesn’t matter if you’re poly curious polyamorous bisexual intersection makes no difference is communication. The more people you inter interact with or you start dating, the more communication is necessary. It’s not a lifestyle for people that don’t like communicating. I was explained to people in a regular monogamous relationship you have person a person B, and the relationship and they are three distinct entities. Person A needs their lot tender loving care in their own time, Person B needs their tender loving care in their own time, and the relationship needs extend love and caring sometime. The minute you add one extra person to that scenario, we have Person A, B, C, plus the relationship between A and B, the relationship between B and C and the relationship between all three of them. It multiplies the amount of communication interaction is needed, the amount of quality time that’s needed, the amount of effort, the amount of birthdays, I mean, goes crazy. So that my number one rule is for any relationship is you got to be down with communication and Don’t even think about polyamory as, as something that you’re not going to be able to communicate or that you don’t have to communicate with.

Damona  42:07  

It sounds like a lot, especially with two women. Let’s be honest, like what two women in the mix? You must have your hands full.

Adam Lyons  42:15  

I love it. It’s it’s, it’s when I’m in my element. It is the absolute best. So yeah, it’s it’s a great experience for those that want to put in the hard work. But it’s hard

Damona  42:23  

work. Sounds like it. I’ll pass but no judgment for you or any of our listeners that want to go down that road. We have already given so much great advice today, Adam, but I want to keep it going with our next segment. our listeners have written in with questions and I know you have answers.

Adam Lyons  42:42  

My pleasure. Let’s do this.

Damona  42:46  

We are back and we’re ready to answer your dating and relationship dilemmas. This is your favorite segment, technically dating VD. All right. This one comes to us from Jenny who’s from walking keagan, Illinois, she says Do you think it’s better to play hard to get or show more interest when first matching up with a guy? I think I know what you’re gonna say about him. I’ve tried both methods, and I’ve gotten the same results of, of talking for a week and then nothing.

Adam Lyons  43:18  

So it’s the pattern.

Adam Lyons  43:19  

So I found that neither of those things are the correct answer. And the correct answer is actually find things in common with the other person that you both care about. And focus on that. When you and somebody that you meet and match with online have something in common that you both really care about what to do. And that’s the focus rather than should we date, everything’s more organic, and everything’s easier. If when you meet up, you both have a certain restaurant you both want to eat at, and the focus is going to eat the food. It’s not about dating, it’s just this is what we’re going to do. Everything’s better or there’s a lot of new virtual reality arenas that are opening up which I’m seeing and if you really want to try that and the person who told To read, he wants to try that. And the focus on look, we’re going to go and do this cool activity together. That’s what makes things start to work, that’s when the bonding really starts to happen. And I find that the relationships that tend to fall apart the ones where like, like, I’ve tried treating the mean, I’ve tried doing all these, these, these games, and that’s where everything collapses. And it always cracks me up when people are like, I don’t like games. I don’t like manipulation. And then they’re like, so I’m gonna treat in me, right? And I’m like, No, don’t do that. How about try and my favorite, we do brutal honesty. I’m like, Hey, I just want to tell get some really cool things out the way nice and early. So let me tell you a few shocking things about myself. And I’ll just go bomb bomb bomb and hit them with three things that are a little bit shocking, but also kind of fun. And see how they react. Because the kind of people that want to date me, they hear those things. They’re like, wow, this is fun. And there was some people are like, not you. And I’m like, great.

Damona  44:51  

Yeah, you can kind of take the temperature of the room very quickly with some of those things. Yeah, and I think it’s very clear. If you’ve gotten anything, if you have been doing it for a while and gotten the same results. And it’s not the result you want. That can’t be working. Right? You have to kind of use your own experience as a guide to tell whether you should go a different way. Why does hate this play hard to get thing.

Adam Lyons  45:16  

And this is where people get difficult though, because they think the only two options are play hard to get or be eager and keen. They’re not the two options. The real option is, don’t focus on the relationship part when you first meet somebody focus on doing fun activities, because you may not get on well, and either way, if you have a fun activity, it was a fun date. Right? If that’s the focus, and ironically, if you focus on having a fun date, you’re much more likely to want to get into a relationship. Everyone is trying to focus on the relationship and that’s why it falls apart like me people that like you know, I’m, I’m really I don’t want to waste my time with somebody I’m not interested in. Like how do you know if you’re interested in them unless you hang out with them, like you would do better rather than being single and waiting in doors for the perfect experience. Go and have lots of imperfect experiences and learn To improve yourself and learn how to really refine and define what you’re after, then you’re going to meet the right person.

Damona  46:06  

I like that. Okay, last question. This one comes to us from Jodi. It’s a little longer so bear with me. She says, I’m ready to date again after 10 years divorced, and I’m talking to an online match. But I find that in the time of COVID, this dating thing is more difficult than I imagined. We have been speaking for six weeks, they’ve had five FaceTime dates, one, socially, distance, coffee date and daily texts. She says, I’m honestly ready to risk some more face to face interaction with him, but he seems to be moving too slowly. And I’m not sure if it’s the pandemic or the classic case of he’s just not that into you. She says that the texting has slowed down a lot in this past week. And she’s not sure if it’s comfort or slow ghosting, but she doesn’t want to sound too thirsty. What do you say to God?

Adam Lyons  46:55  

Yeah, this is this is the thing that I was saying to you that’s going on when you’re in an online base. app, you’re talking to more than one person. There’s competition here. And if the competition, you know, if somebody’s only texting a couple of times a day, they’re probably texting other people as well. And if if there’s no verbal communication about what the expectations are, what’s actually going on, then there’s no rules being broken either. A lot of people like to apply the unwritten rule of but we’re talking so you can’t talk to anyone else. But that’s, that’s not really a rule. So actually, the correct thing to do, I would find is a phone call. And on the phone call, do what I like to call like the define the relationship, the DTR. And, hey, we’ve been told thoroughly. I would, yeah, we’ve been talking for six weeks. It’s six weeks. This isn’t. This is huge. You know, in courtship days, we got back in the 1800s you’ve been dating same person six weeks, you know, your parents gonna be like, Who is this person and you meet them? You’re married? Exactly. So no sixes Yeah, six weeks is long. And so it doesn’t matter that it’s just a couple of texts, interactions. And I think it’s absolutely okay again, Honesty. Hey, I’ve really enjoyed our conversations. And sometimes I feel like I know that you’re just not that into it. So just calling out. Is this something you want to keep doing? Or you know, john move on do something else. It’s just, you know, I really enjoy our conversation. I’d like to have more of them. And if you’re open to that, then I was thinking what could be a fun activity is the activity, but if not, then just let me know. And this brutal honesty technique is like the best when it comes to dating. It’s so refreshing. People are like wow, no one’s ever said that to me before and it’s crazy like I can’t tell you how many times like I’m polyamorous I’ll share something a little bit you know? A little bit risky but being polyamorous I’ll say to people when I first meet them for the very first coffee Hey, just so you know, I’m polyamorous. I’m currently seeing this many people. This is currently who I am. This is what I’m doing. And I feel that at the beginning of this coffee, I should let you know. Just so you know what to expect. And if you just want to have a coffee and say goodbye at the end of it, I fully understand. The minute I say that they go Whoa, whoa, whoa. What’s polyamorous or wait? Explain that to me like, does that mean you have three? And they get into it? They’re like, Okay, I’m curious. And they’ll say to me, I’m not saying I want to date you, I’m just saying I want to learn more. I’m like, Okay. And that’s because the people I match with I’ve, you know, kind of felt out and thought like, Okay, I think this is somebody’s open enough to have these kinds of discussions. And that’s how I do it. I don’t browse polyamorous websites or anything like that I meet regular people who don’t identify as polyamorous and I just tell them the truth about what’s going on.

Damona  49:28  

I think you’ve gotten to the heart of the matter, Adam, you got to tell the truth. And especially in today’s dating world, there’s just too much information about people online. There’s too much transparency that that I think rightfully people have, have desired. And the more honest you can be, the more you can get your needs met in a relationship. I so appreciate you being here with us. Thank you for sharing all of your wisdom. And people can check out the ACE formula brute blueprint Ace formula blueprint.com. It’s free. free training, right?

Adam Lyons  50:01  

Yep, there’s a whole bunch of free training. And then that’s basically we get them to go through the free training before they apply to work with us. I’d rather somebody got a bunch of free stuff and see if it was right for them before we even consider working with them, then they can fill in the application and then we can talk and find out you know, if it’s right for us if it’s right for you. We’re pretty picky about who we work with. And that’s because, you know, we want to make sure we’re helping the right kind of people.

Damona  50:23  

Great. Well, we’ll put the link in the show notes. And thank you again, so much for being here.

Adam Lyons  50:26  

Thanks for having me. It was awesome. Really chatting.

Damona  50:28  

You too. That’s it for Episode Number 314 of dates and mates. You can find them on Instagram at dating coach. Yes, that’s how long he’s been in the game y’all. He’s at th e dating coach. And if you’re interested in learning more from him, he has a special formula for dating called the ACE formula. And you can find that at Ace formula. blueprint.com. Again, that’s Ace formula blueprint comm we’ll put it in the show notes and also in the show notes. You can find that link to our special secret special Patreon that’s just for our friends with benefits. That means you can be my friend and a friend of dates and mates. And you can get benefits just by going to patreon.com slash dates and mates, we can have a deeper conversation there, you’ll get exclusive access to video content, and audio content that you can’t find anywhere else on my website or on dates and mates. And you can get access to some of our library archive episodes of dates and dates, which are no longer available to the public. So I want you in the club, and I want your support for dates and made so we can keep making the show. For many, many more seasons. We’re coming up on season eight rapidly approaching so go to patreon.com slash dates and mates. And as always, we will have a show recap at dates and mates.com. With all of the links from the stories we talked about today. Don’t forget to follow me on the socials at damona Hoffman And I still love getting DMS from you as long as they’re clean. And if they have your questions, I would love to read what’s on your mind. So please DM me at damona Hoffman until next week. I wish you inner peace and happy dating

Pride & Prejudice

SPREAD THE LOVE

Here at Dates & Mates, we are exhausted.

Exhausted from the events of the week, but also exhausted as women of color in America. (Shout out to Damona for being an OG champion of diversity!)

As Damona puts it in today’s episode, “For decades I’ve been shouting about racial injustice from the top of my lungs and I was starting to run out of breath so I’m relieved to see others now working to create conversation and enact change.”

We thought long and hard about whether or not to drop an episode of Dates & Mates this week but came to the conclusion that in times like these, it is my responsibility to keep using our voice.

The way that Damona uses her voice? To heal people and build bridges is through LOVE.

So today, we’ll be talking to Donny Meacham, a dating coach who is also a correspondent on Celebrity page TV, as well as a Sirius XM co-host and writer for Naught Gossip, Elite Daily and more. We’ll be talking about all things Pride and Love.

But first, we should address what is going on around us: 

SHOUT OUT TO MARSHA P JOHNSON (1:00)

In light of the week’s events, we had to ditch the dating dish and instead, Damona gives her perspective on the week’s events and to give you some historical context to what’s happening right now. She says:

“As I record this, it has recently been announced that a lot of pride parades will march in solidarity with the current Black Lives Matter protests, and before you say, not my March, those are two separate things.

I need you to look at the history of Pride Month, as this actually makes a lot of sense and I want to put this in context for you with a tiny history lesson.  On June 28 1969, police raided the Stonewall Inn, which was a meeting place for LGBTQ New Yorkers, and as a result a spontaneous protests broke out to oppose police violence against queer people in this country. And that’s why we now celebrate Pride Month in June.

Okay, you probably know that already. We’ve discussed it on Dates & Mates before. But one thing that I didn’t know and that you might not be aware of either, is that a trans woman of color was a part of initiating much of the gay rights movement, and in particular, the Stonewall riots.

And one woman who’s absolutely worth remembering is Marsha P. Johnson. The P and Marsha P. Johnson stood for a “pay it no mind”. And when people got too nosy about her, that’s what she would tell him she’d say “pay it no mind”.

Johnson saved lives and she spoke up and she put herself in the spotlight at a time that was dangerous for a transgender woman, even among the gay community, which sometimes silenced her or saw her identity as a trans woman as being contrary to their agenda. Marsha P. Johnson was a minority within a minority within a minority. And prior protests have often pitted one group against another. But what’s different about this movement that we’re going through right now is that we know that true change can only come when we link arms and speak up together. 

This is not a black issue. This is an American issue. This is an ‘us issue’. And that’s been the most beautiful part of watching this all unfold for me, seeing black people, white people, straight people and gay people all marching together, all demanding change, just as Marsha P. Johnson did so many years ago. So today, we will pay Marsha P. Johnson some mind because we know that the world just wasn’t ready for her yet. And I want to dedicate today’s show to her. She reminds me as I said last week, that love is what will get us all through. 

Let us not seek to divide ourselves again right now. Let us listen. Let’s invite others in and let love lead the way.”

PRIDE (4:00)

Donny Meacham is the Millennial love guru who tells it like it is.  He is passionate about love and being sure you are mentally prepared for it when it comes. 

You’ve seen him on Celebrity Page TV and CoHosting the iHeart Radio Top 20 Entertainment podcast ‘Naughty But Nice’.

We discuss:

  • Dating app secrets for 
  • Dating and Date Ideas for this time
  • Is it really ghosting if you didn’t give them a second chance?
  • Taking chances in love

via GIPHY

Find Donny on Instagram @DatingDonny and make sure to check out his podcast, Naughty But Nice on all the podcast platforms!

TECHNICALLY DATING (27:45)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • I miss my ex and I’ve been tempted to reach out and check on him. Is this a good idea?
  • Alexander Host of On the Rocks Podcast: Tips for meeting someone for the first time after a couple of months of constant FaceTime dates.
  • Ned on Twitter: Dating a guy in NYC. He’s been very sweet and communicative via text and FaceTime. How do i know if any of it is real?!

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Donny Meacham  0:00  

What does his text me so frustrated? He’s just not that into me. I’ve always been battle. For attention. I’m ready for

Damona  0:12  

modern love Made Simple. This is dates and mates with damona Hoffman. Hello lovers, it’s Pride Month. And this is the time when we specifically celebrate love in all forms. You know that I’m always doing that on the dates and made show. But June is a time to remind us that love is love. And it doesn’t always come in the way that you’ve expected in or that society tells you is acceptable. I stand by my lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, asexual and queer listeners and everyone listening now regardless of how you identify. I know my regular listeners might be expecting a dating dish. But in light of the week’s events, I had to ditch the dating dish and instead, I’m choosing to give My perspective on the week’s events as a woman of color, and to give you some historical context to what’s happening right now. In a moment, we’ll be talking to Donnie Meacham, an LGBT dating coach who’s also a correspondent on Celebrity page TV on rails Channel, as well as a Sirius XM co host and writer for naughty gossip elite daily and more with him will discuss the dating app secrets for queer and straight singles. And he and I will also answer some of your questions like, how do you know if your long distance relationship is real, and tips for moving offline after several virtual dates? As I record this, it has recently been announced that a lot of pride parades will march in solidarity with the current Black Lives Matter protests, and before you say, not my March, those are two separate things. I need you to look at the history of Pride Month, as this actually makes a lot of sense and I want to put this in context for you with a tiny history lesson.  On June 28 1969, police raided the Stonewall Inn, which was a meeting place for LGBTQ New Yorkers, and as a result a spontaneous protests broke out to oppose police violence against queer people in this country. And that’s why we now celebrate Pride Month in June. Okay, you probably know that already. We’ve discussed it on Dates & Mates before. But one thing that I didn’t know and that you might not be aware of either, is that a trans woman of color was a part of initiating much of the gay rights movement, and in particular, the Stonewall riots. And one woman who’s absolutely worth remembering is Marsha P. Johnson. The P and Marsha P. Johnson stood for a “pay it no mind”. And when people got too nosy about her, that’s what she would tell him she’d say “pay it no mind”. Johnson saved lives and she spoke up and she put herself in the spotlight at a time that was dangerous for a transgender woman, even among the gay community, which sometimes silenced her or saw her identity as a trans woman as being contrary to their agenda. Marsha P. Johnson was a minority within a minority within a minority. And prior protests have often pitted one group against another. But what’s different about this movement that we’re going through right now is that we know that true change can only come when we link arms and speak up together. This is not a black issue. This is an American issue. This is an ‘us issue’. And that’s been the most beautiful part of watching this all unfold for me, seeing black people, white people, straight people and gay people all marching together, all demanding change, just as Marsha P. Johnson did so many years ago. So today, we will pay Marsha P. Johnson some mind because we know that the world just wasn’t ready for her yet. And I want to dedicate today’s show to her. She reminds me as I said last week, that love is what will get us all through. Let us not seek to divide ourselves again right now. Let us listen. Let’s invite others in and let love lead the way. Now, please, let’s give some love to my guest for today. Donnie Meacham is the millennial Love Guru who tells it like it is he is passionate about love and being sure that you are mentally prepared for it when it comes. You’ve seen him on Celebrity page TV, and co hosting the I Heart Radio top 20 Entertainment podcast naughty but nice. Please help me give some big smooches to Donnie Meachem.

Donny Meacham  4:55  

How are you?

Donny Meacham  4:57  

I am so excited to have you on the show.

Donny Meacham  5:00  

I’m excited to be here. I I’m actually a big fan of your site, listen to the podcast and I even though I talk about dating and relationships, I get a lot of my advice from you that

Damona  5:12  

we can get advice from each other. It’s like, yes, it’s like a circle of life here that’s happening.

Donny Meacham  5:17  

So I’m the worst Dad, I don’t actually take my own advice when it comes to

Donny Meacham  5:22  

my mother.

Damona  5:25  

She’s like, Oh, damona I can you can be my dating coach. And then and then I tell her what to do. And then she’s like, Oh, I’m not gonna do that. I’m like, what’s the point? Mom? What’s the point of that? Yeah, so it’s Pride Month, Donnie, and I’m really excited that you’re here and that you can share some advice for our LGBT q ay ay audience on above all of the above. And really what that means just want to break it down. For all of you listeners, it means that this show is for everybody. So don’t think that you’re if you’re if you don’t identify As one of the many letters that I just said that you’re like, Oh, this showing it for me, because the advice that Donnie is going to give you is going to resonate on in whatever situation that you’re in. So I know you’re a you’re a big fan of dating apps, and you’re up to speed on all the things that are happening. I’m really curious. What you have experienced as an LGBT dating coach, I’ll drop a few letters, but you guys know I inclusive. I’m including all of us.

Donny Meacham  6:33  

Yeah. Well, now we literally just say the word queer just kind of encompasses everybody.

Damona  6:38  

I was explaining this actually to my nine year old daughter, because she was like, I think his last Pride Month and she was asking me like, what’s the difference? And then and then I was like, queer is like the umbrella and then there’s like, all of these other and she got it. That’s what’s so cool. Donnie, she’s nine and she was like, Oh, cool. I got it. And it’s just like, so It’s so wonderful to be able to raise a child in a world where that is that that’s how she looks at the world. And that is just so like, when I was coming up, and I think you’re a little bit younger than me, but probably when you were when you were coming up to like, there were so many there was so much. There was so much weight around identification, right and like or how and having to choose a lane. So the fact that you can, you can either not have a lane necessarily or have many lanes or change lanes. It’s kind of cool,

Donny Meacham  7:40  

but you think, Oh, it’s so cool. And he’s mean your daughter, I wish that I because I’m from Alabama. So growing up there was imagine that being a gay kid in Alabama. It was hard. And your daughter though, is like she’s, she’s lucky in a way now that it’s cool. And it’s just like you have a word and it’s like, you know what the word just means ever. Hear everybody’s the same. We’re all cool. And what you were saying earlier about how the podcast is for everyone, because we think about it. Everyone dates. Dating doesn’t have like, there’s not only straight people date, it’s gay people date straight people, people who are bisexual people who, you know, don’t date at all. There’s like room for everybody, but we all need some sort of help, or we all want to talk about it. So that’s what the beauty about dating is, is that it’s universal.

Damona  8:26  

Hmm, yeah, that’s so true. And everybody, everybody wants love and everyone deserves us. And, and I’ll even include the asexual people. Cuz Everyone needs like that kind of companionship, and I feel like a lot of people now we’re coming out of this COVID Halo that we’ve been underneath. And a lot of people have kind of just sworn off dating. Like I was just talking with a client the other day and he was just like, I’m just kind of like he doesn’t like to just casually chat with people. So and he was finding that a lot of the guys he was talking to, were just looking for sort of quarantine pen pals. And he’s like, I’m not really into this, like, I want to actually meet in person and until they’re ready to do that, it’s not really worth my time to. What do you say to that?

Donny Meacham  9:20  

Well, that’s my thing is I, a lot of people are saying, Oh, datings got to be easier now. Because we’re all at home. And we literally don’t aren’t doing anything else. We should literally be focusing on dating and talking to people. But I find that that is actually a problem. It’s a hindrance, because we’re just sitting here, we’re bored. So it’s like, what do I need? I need a pen pal. Or going back to the old days of like, I just need somebody to text and to jump online, you find a random person because you’re tired of your roommate, or you’re tired of your friend or you’re tired of always talking to your family to you like, Oh, I talked to somebody new, but you’re not actually looking for a connection you’re looking for. Hey, what’s up? It’s like, Oh, well, I just hung at home today. It’s what you hung at home, and then the conversation ends.

Damona  10:03  

I don’t know about you, but I’ve done plenty of quarantine activities. I did drag queen bingo virtually I got the whole family doing it. We had a great time I did scavenger hunts. I like all these people that are like I’m bored and quarantine. I don’t understand. There’s so many things to do.

Donny Meacham  10:23  

Well, me I’ve just what’s funny is actually I played Bingo. The other day I went 200 bucks.

Donny Meacham  10:27  

What? I gotta get on your Bingo.

Donny Meacham  10:30  

Yeah, I was like what I was like, This is amazing. It that is the one beauty about this is people are being so creative. Yes. It’s what you got to be what you got to be creative in dating too. But I have found because I’ve I use Tinder personally. Tinder is like that’s my go to. Yeah, because some of the other apps aren’t fully inclusive of gay people, because they companies have come around within the years. I remember when Bumble was strictly just for You know, straight couples. Yeah. But then Bumble, like other companies realize that when you allow gay people on it, you increase your usage and you therefore increase revenue, which helps. But I use Tinder because it’s always been inclusive. But I found the same thing. I’m like, I’m matching with guys. But it’s been really weird because now the stay at home order. The algorithm has changed a lot to where I matched with this guy who like is serving overseas in Afghanistan. I was like, how did I have a 10 mile radius?

Damona  11:33  

Oh, yeah, they changed that Tinder changed it? Mm hmm. Yeah. Or whatever. Safer at home. Yeah. Safer

Donny Meacham  11:39  

at home. So I’m like, Alright, that’s cool. But and he’s a really cool guy. And he’s doing great things for children who are suffering over there. And like, That’s amazing. That’s beautiful. You’re great. But this is not going to go anywhere. Yeah, because you’re there. I’m here. And it just it can only go to pen pal. So it’s almost discouraged. Which I think they think it’s helping people because you’re opening yourself up to more matches, but it’s actually discouraging people because you know, right off the bat, this isn’t going anywhere I need to match with people who were physically within reach or physically within my limitations of eventually we will be able to meet up. And if we’re going to be able to meet up, I need to be able to drive to you or ride the train to you, or take an Uber to you

Donny Meacham  12:27  

actually touch you.

Donny Meacham  12:29  

At some point, we will have to touch each other again.

Damona  12:31  

Yeah, I am curious as now we are getting into the dating app discussion. algorithm algorithms, I’m big into algorithms and and really using the app as a tool, just a tool for connection and plugging in the right inputs. So you get the right, the right responses. And and when I say inputs, I mean, your profile, but also the way that you’re searching, but I do really wonder For for LGBT for queer daters. Thank you for allowing me to just say queer for queer daters. I really worry about the algorithms. If I’m being honest with you, I worry, especially for those people who are not either non binary or are bisexual and may not even have a set preference, how it works for them. What do you recommend to daters that are wanting to have a more open? I mean, other than necessarily using Tinder, are there ways that that you recommend using the apps as a tool or do you think it’s just not the most successful tool as of right now for queer daters?

Donny Meacham  13:47  

I will for people who are such as myself, so I’m a gay man who likes other men, that is an option on tender Yeah, if you’re, you know if say you’re trans and sad Some people in the queer community, that’s not their preference. And so therefore, they’re automatically shut out of dating, because that’s not an app on that you can’t go in there and be like, I’m a trans person who’s into other or you could be like, I am a gay individual who’s into trans people. And I know it sounds terrible to say that, but that’s a reality. And it’s a harsh reality when it comes to dating apps. Because if you swiping and if people will automatically, you know, discriminate against them based on what, and there’s no option for them, there’s no option to opt out of it. There’s no option to opt in. And sadly, I think that that comes time for where apps need to develop within themselves of give people the option of I want to opt into this. This is my niche market. This is what I’m into. And sadly, only things like Grindr, which is not necessarily known as a dating app, but a lot of people have to turn to that because you’re allowed to Specifically put on there. This is what I meant to this is what I’m looking for. And as a gay person, we really need to narrow it down for us. Yeah. Okay, wait, we’re not open to everyone.

Damona  15:11  

That’s true. That’s so true. Yeah. And I think, you know, a lot of these products are designed by people that don’t live the life. Like, like, as a person of color. I experienced that too. Like people think, Oh, well, you’re Brown. So like brown things would appeal to you. And it’s like, oh, there’s like a whole range within that. Yes. But I am curious, since you brought up, said Grindr. I had a client that said to me, like, obviously, Grindr. To clarify for those listening has the reputation of being a hookup app. Right. It’s a sex app. It’s a sex, sex, sex app, a hookup app. But I had a client that said to me, really, they all they used it like, in the gay community for them. sex. They’re almost like putting sex as a early filter when I don’t think it’s the same, quite the same in the straight community. And so he was like, I like using Grindr as a dating app. But I don’t really know alternatives. Because if we’re, you know, that’s where we’re starting out. It’s sort of the best option. But But you I mean, you found you have love off of Grindr.

Donny Meacham  16:29  

I have and what’s weird is I’ve I’ve I’ve found many friends off of Grindr, and I have found dates off of there, because it goes back into you use it for what you’re using it for. So if you go on there, and you’re strictly looking for sex, I’m gonna know that right away when you messaged me and you’re like, Hey, what’s up, like, send me nudes. And it’s like, Yeah, no, not doing that. You’re not looking for what I’m looking for at this moment. The crazy thing is is gay men are very forward like that and they will Let you know right off the bat what they’re looking for. But that goes into Grindr, though is is a gay man’s app. So you’re already limiting the scope for queer people to where it’s just men looking for other men to hook up.

Damona  17:14  

That makes sense. That makes sense. Why they brought up, like, send nudes. And you’re so right, like you can. They’re the best, but they’re the worst.

Donny Meacham  17:26  

The best and the worst. They’re terrible.

Damona  17:30  

But I like how you mentioned that it. It’s the it’s how you use the tool. Sure. Right. So what if you get a request for nudes, and I’m speaking to everyone in our in our in our audience right now you get a request for nudes. And like maybe even talking to some maybe it’s not the first message they send but maybe it’s a little further down. And you’re like, Oh, I kind of thought this was going somewhere. Do you automatically cut it off? Do you send the nudes? What do you say? In that situation,

Donny Meacham  18:02  

literally people have to be you got to be firm in what you want. If you’re a lot of people are okay with just sending pictures right away and trust me, I have no shame in that if that’s what you want to do be proud of your body if you want to share it, share it, like that’s, I’m open to that and be totally cool with that. But for me, especially, it’s like well, I’m not going to send that because that’s not necessarily who I am and not what I’m looking for. Eventually down the road, I have no problems. But right now that’s not it. One benefit though is on there it now they’ve added an option to where you can do a timed so the picture will only last three seconds and then it automatically deletes from it just like disappears. So if you can like send it so that way nobody can screenshot it because that’s what you worry about, is when you’re sending a nude photo, and everyone has to think about this just because they see it. Nothing is stopping them from screenshotting it sending it around to their friends show Everybody that they know. And before you realize that, you know, there’s instead of one person seeing all of your junk, there’s about 30 people who have seen everything.

Damona  19:09  

Yeah. And then revenge porn, it could really come back. Well, I was gonna bite you in the ass, but it’s kind of fun.

Donny Meacham  19:20  

But no revenge porn is really actually rampant in the gay community. And it’s really, it’s actually quite sad, but because men especially, and I hate that leaving out lesbians in this but lesbians really do. They get the short end of the stick because there’s not many apps that are out there dedicated solely to them. And partially is because of the old you know, u haul lesbian thing where they think that they kind of settle down right away.

Damona  19:48  

But they move offline too fast.

Donny Meacham  19:50  

They move offline too fast. So it’s not economical for a company to create something for them. And even if you look around, I know here currently I’m in New York City. There’s probably 25 gay bars. There are two lesbian bars. Wow. So you’re like it just goes to show you that more emphasis is placed on the men solely because men are more sexualized. So we do take that into the dating apps, hence why Grindr is so successful. Hmm.

Damona  20:23  

Wow, you are educating me, Donnie? I am learning things that I did not. I did not know. What about ghosting that’s we talk about that a lot on the show, obviously, and I’m curious during quarantine. If you have seen any change like even with like the virtual dates, or I know people are starting to kind of move offline. How What do you see happening for ghosting during the time of quarantine and is it different in the in the queer community, or is it just as bad or worse as straight daters ghosting is has been off the hook since before quote COVID started.

Donny Meacham  21:06  

Oh no ghosting is like savage in the gig like, came in especially they have at no problem ghosting you. It is it is just ruthless, but I find it’s actually tire in the quarantine because people think we’re sitting at home a lot of people are unemployed right now. So you’re thinking, alright, you’re not doing anything you have time, but you’re bored. And a lot of people which is taken to a little side is they’re depressed or they’re dealing with things and they’re just trying to get out of it personally. So they may not have time to talk to somebody, just because you know, depression weighs you down and your mental health kind of works at you. So you’re like, oh, that person messaged me. I don’t want to get back to them. And before you realize it’s three days later, and you’re like, Oh, well, three days that’s too late and then you just stop all communication. So technically you did ghost them, but you didn’t even mean to go them.

Damona  22:01  

Yeah. And if you really flip it from that perspective, Donnie, and you look at it, as you know, it’s not always intentional. I think sometimes we do take it so, personally, and I’ve recommended to listeners before that if there’s somebody that you really wanted to talk to just pick up the thread again, and especially like, a lot of our straight female listeners are like, well, I can’t do that. That’s like, now I’m chasing him. But it’s just, it’s situational. It’s sheer volume. The reality is, you’re dating many people, right?

Donny Meacham  22:36  

Yeah. Well, I I have a little controversy on the fact that I think when it comes to dating, you really have to put aside your pride A lot of times, because people are like, Oh, I just like chasing them. It’s like and what’s wrong with chasing somebody that you’re into? There’s a difference of you if them saying I’m not interested, you continue to message if the messages is kind of trailed off, and You know, pick it back up, that’s not chasing them. That’s you showing initiative. And a lot of people need initiative. Because a lot of people are lazy. You think, which is true people are lazy. And they need you to say, Hey, what are you doing? Hey, do you want to jump on a zoom call? Do you want to jump on House Party, which is like an app for your phone where you can do? You can play games and stuff with somebody in video. And people need initiative. They need a push and that’s totally okay to do.

Damona  23:31  

I like that. You You mentioned house party. Yeah, because a lot of tim’es people are like, I don’t know what to do. Like on a zoom day. It’s like you and me and the wall behind me know I love

Donny Meacham  23:43  

people. I’m telling you, if you do house party is an app, it is free, which is the best value and get on there because there’s games you can play. You can play like charades with somebody you can play heads up, which is the game where you get love. And that’s just an icebreaker. Yeah, you think about it when you meet somebody at a bar the icebreaker is the waiter, the bartender, the other people at the bar. Those are icebreakers. When you eliminate those. You need one at the house and I don’t want to date I don’t want to go on a virtual date somebody is playing video games. I need them paying attention to me. So what you do is you bring the icebreaker to them by creating it through the app.

Damona  24:23  

I love that such good advice, Donnie. I’m learning so much and I’m gonna Can I Can we be friends on house party? Can I like

Donny Meacham  24:32  

please? Can we I am. I am really good.

Donny Meacham  24:37  

Okay, love trivia.

Damona  24:39  

I am terrible at trivia, but my husband is excellent. So I figured out it used to cause a lot of drama actually, in a relationship. No joke, like we had Trivial Pursuit and I would always just get mad and turn into like a whining child because he would just beat me so mercilessly. This has been a theme throughout our entire relationship like he always wins at games. And then I realize Like, Oh, just get on his team, and then you always win. And it’s been a lot better in the last couple of years.

Donny Meacham  25:08  

This is funny because you bring up a point, actually anybody, because when you’re dating somebody, it takes a minute to kind of see what their personality traits are. But if you’re doing something via house party, if you’re playing a game with somebody, and they are getting super competitive, and they’re angry, and you’re not into that, you’re gonna see that right away, so technically, that works in your favor.

Damona  25:30  

Fortunately, he saw it right away. We played pool on our second day, and again, he just beat me just mercilessly. And I was like, I thought you liked me like why would you beat me so badly and again, like, mercilessly, no, no mercy? And he was like, well, this is the kind of guy I am Wouldn’t you rather that you know that I’m a guy with integrity that’s going to be prioritize being honest in the game, over letting you And so he’s still is that guy but I still haven’t learned how to beat him at school.

Donny Meacham  26:05  

I love that I that’s a tip for that I always give is just be I know sounds crazy, but be yourself but being yourself is don’t let them win. If you’re good at it, be good at it.

Damona  26:18  

Well, it worked out for us in the end, but I’m still thinking about it was so

Donny Meacham  26:23  

many years later so I get a little angry but

Damona  26:26  

we’re definitely we’re definitely gonna play on house party. All right, we’re gonna take a quick break when we come back. We have questions from our listeners that have been submitted for our next segment. So stick around. We’re back and Donnie and I are going to answer the questions that you’ve submitted over the last few weeks specifically, we have a lot of questions geared towards pride month but they can apply to everyone who is dating in the time of Coronavirus oh yeah Coronavirus still happening. Before we go to the questions, I first need to shout some of you out those of you who’ve taken the time to write a podcast review. I thank you. Specifically, I just want to thank Clarice for saying that this is an awesome podcast, and that we highlight all the aspects of relationships and more and that this is a can’t miss podcast for her. We can’t miss you either. And so I hope you are listening on the regular still and I encourage you, and everyone listening to share this show with a friend. Let’s bring more love in the world. We really need it right now. Now moving on to your questions. I am here with Donnie and it’s time for technically dating. Alright, Donnie, we have questions from our listeners. And I know you have answers so I can’t wait.

Donny Meacham  27:45  

Oh, we got lots of answers.

Damona  27:46  

Let’s do it. Okay, this one comes to us from Instagram. And this person says I miss my ex and I’ve been tempted to reach out and check on him. Is this a good idea?

Donny Meacham  28:01  

Wow, ah, you know, when it comes to exes, I really am the worst at it because I have a different approach and other people do. I stay in contact with my ex, I stay in contact with all my exes and I stay in contact immediately after when we break up. But granted, I’ve had decent breakups, we didn’t end things terribly. They weren’t, you know, emotionally physically abusive or anything like that. They were just common decency. So that is my rule of thumb is if the breakup was good, if there was no strings attached, you just broke up. There’s nothing wrong with reaching out to them. Because they are a person too. And if they’re, you know, they’re going through a hard time. I say there’s nothing wrong with it. But you have to ask yourself, What are you trying to get out of it? Right? If you What are you okay with saying, hey, how is everything and if their response is just, Hey, I’m doing good. And you can leave it at that then okay. If you want more You have to ask yourself, am I okay with the response I’m gonna get?

Damona  29:04  

Yeah. And that’s always the thing, right? What do you what do you want? Because rarely I actually just got a message from a client who said her ex has been reaching out to her and then sent her a birthday cake. And yeah, for her birthday, and I’m like, uh, I don’t think that that’s just like a friendly like, Hey, how you doing?

Donny Meacham  29:25  

Right? No, that’s, that’s another thing. It’s like he obviously wants more. What are you willing to give back? Mm hmm.

Donny Meacham  29:34  

Everybody always wants something from us.

Donny Meacham  29:37  

Always something because ultimately, and the sad thing is, is right now we’re in a safer at home. You’re staying home. They’re just as bored as you are. So if you think that you’re bored, you’re at home, you’re reaching out to people. Third, probably in the same boat. They’re just as bored as you are. So there might be reaching out to you out of boredom. Yes, yeah, always. Keep that.

Donny Meacham  30:01  

But also in these moments when we have a lot of extra time and space to,

Damona  30:07  

to think sometimes we go back to those past relationships, and we idealize them. And we think, oh, why did I break up with him or her? At because now like, now I’m single, and I’m going through quarantine alone. And maybe it wasn’t that bad. And then we forget all of the other stuff and all the reasons why we actually broke up. And in our romantic view of the relationship, it was perfect. And we missed a good thing.

Donny Meacham  30:33  

Yeah, well, hindsight. I mean, the old thing hindsight is 20. That goes with dating too, because we ultimately forget the negative little arguments that happen and you just think about, oh my gosh, remember that amazing time we had in Central Park. Remember that amazing time we had at Disney World? Because those are the big memories. And you often forget just the little fights where it’s like, he never complimented you or he made you feel Like he made you feel worthless or he made you feel bad about yourself, you kind of tend to forget those moments because it’s like in life do you think about with family? What do you remember with family? You’re there remember the really bad moments or you remember the really good moments you don’t remember each individual time that your mom got you a birthday card. You don’t remember that. But you remember, she took you to get your first car. That’s kind of like how dating is you remember the good, and oftentimes we forget about the little things that happened in between.

Damona  31:30  

Yes, yep. The stories we tell ourselves. Okay, this question comes to us. from a friend of the show, his name is Alexander. He actually hosts a wonderful podcast called on the rocks. He’s asking for tips for meeting someone the first time after a couple of months of constant FaceTime dates.

Donny Meacham  31:49  

All right, so this is I can I give up I’m gonna take it back for a second on the little tip when you’re facetiming somebody and I know this might sound terrible. I roll up Thumb for me is do not dress up for them. Because you’re at home, you’re allowed to be in your comfort zone. And for me, it’s just a little tip. Yeah, like right now I’m just wearing like a nice little casual buttoned up, my hair is done more than I would normally do. But I didn’t go crazy. I didn’t go out of the way. And that’s how it should be when you’re meeting somebody via FaceTime. Because it’s going to add that level of suspense because when they see you in person, and in person, we all doll up for the first date, just something that we do when they see you, it’s going to add a level of attraction to it. Hmm. And so if it’s like, I was like, Oh, wow. And you’re gonna shock them and you’re gonna surprise them. And to me, it’s gonna make the date right off the bat more intense, which is a good thing.

Damona  32:49  

Interesting. See, I always say dress for the, you don’t get a second chance to make a first impression. Yeah, so dress for the day. The way that you would show up, but you’re kind of holding back Little some

Donny Meacham  33:01  

yeah I I’ve always been that way I’ve even gone I know this is like I said some people disagree with me but I’m even on the very first date is not when you Wow them you Wow them on the third day you wild them on the fourth day because I know when I wake up in the morning it’s a pretty it’s a little rough job

Damona  33:22  

by that not for a second

Donny Meacham  33:26  

and eventually they’re gonna see that so I’m very pro on give them for what they’re gonna see. Yeah, maybe you want to wear a little mascara or even I wear a little concealer. It’s Yeah, that’s fine but really wow them wait to wow them because they have to earn that from you.

Damona  33:44  

Hmm, now you’re using now you’re using my terminology like that. earn it earn it earn it.

Donny Meacham  33:50  

Okay for his advice though, I’ve just given a little advice real quick.

Damona  33:53  

Yes, I’ve given some of

Donny Meacham  33:55  

it is going to be hard because you’re going to be nervous because right now We’re seeing each other, we’re looking at each other and you’re doing that during a date, you are connecting with that person. So when you meet up, and when you meet up a first time, you’re actually going to know them better than you would if you just met up. So think of something that they’ve said in the past conversations. If you’ve been communicating for a while, think of what they like, do, you’ve had time to communicate, that’s when you go alright. I remember this one time, he said, he loves bowling sounds silly. But I’m gonna take him bowling, that’s your opportunity to show that you have listened to the multiple conversations. And that’s going to put take a little pressure off the date, because we’re all nervous when you’re meeting it for the first time, but it’s also going to impress them.

Damona  34:48  

That’s great. Yeah. And show everybody just wants to be listened to. So showing that you’ve been listening to them is really key. And then I like that it’s an activity date. So it’s the same as What you’re saying about FaceTime dates, it’s not just like, here we are sitting over dinner, but you can kind of skip ahead. If you’ve been having all those FaceTime dates. It’s almost like, take like my third date and on recommendations and see what happens. Okay, let me ask you one more question. This comes to us from Ned. He says,

Donny Meacham  35:20  

Hello to Mona. My situation is as follows are down. And one of the many things is a little far away from me. So far, it’s going well, as far as I could tell, he can’t really tell anything without that physical chemistry.

Damona  35:38  

He’s been very sweet and communicative via text and FaceTime, but how do I know if any of it is real?

Donny Meacham  35:45  

Alright, so two things here. First is I’m going to say this is a big deal breaker for me is when you’re dealing with somebody on an app for me, you have two weeks to take it off the app. Okay, too. Two weeks you haven’t texted me. We haven’t FaceTime we haven’t zoomed. We haven’t made a plan to meet up when we can. There’s no point you’re wasting your time. Mm hmm. Because within two, yeah, within two weeks, I’m not pen pal. I know I have friends. I can text all day. What I am going to save this being a somebody now who lives in New York City. I remember when I first came out, I was like, oh, there’s somebody who lives a state away. That’s no problem. Now, if I get on Grindr, and they’re more than 500 feet away, I’m like, Oh, I’m not doing that. It really does change as you get older. But I’m going to say four hours. I’m sorry. And I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it’s just it’s not gonna work being that it’s so new. I have no problems with long distance dating. If you have met the person there because I for a while dated a guy who lived in Philly. I went to Philly. him he was amazing, Philly’s only two hours. So I was taking the bus and I was going to see him. But I met him physically first. Hmm. I find it very hard for online long term dating.

Damona  37:12  

Yeah, that’s the key, I think long term right. So I have had a lot of clients that have met and married or moved into serious relationships with someone who lives long distance. But the question I always asked at the ask at the beginning, is are you open to moving? Or is that could that person also relocate? Like, how if you play this forward, how is it going to end? So that’s, I think at the core of Ned’s answer like, can they care? Is there a world in which they can actually physically be together? Because for hours back and forth is not really sustainable? I don’t think like you said two hours. It’s probably the max as far as max. Yeah. And Ned

Donny Meacham  37:54  

right now, there’s nothing wrong with you asking and people are gonna say, Oh, it’s too soon. It’s no It’s not to say there’s nothing wrong with you asking him, Hey, if this was to go further, do you see yourself moving? And if he says no, and you know that your life is where you are, it’s it’s not gonna work. I mean, and there’s nothing wrong with asking that when it comes to long term, long distance relationships, because when it’s long distance, some of the rules are immediately scrapped. Mm hmm. And there is no there’s nothing wrong with asking and being blunt. You can say I don’t plan on moving. Do you plan on moving ever? Yeah, nothing wrong with that.

Damona  38:34  

Yeah. But pretty soon, he should figure out what’s really going on, right? Because Yeah, I’ve spent three weeks. They’ve been texting and facetiming. But the only way to know that it’s real is to move off the app, right?

Donny Meacham  38:48  

Yeah, you have to move up the app and you got to be straightforward with what you’re looking for.

Damona  38:53  

Donnie? I adore you. I can’t wait. When you go to LA we all hang out. In the meantime. We’re going to be playing house party. Yes. And I hope all of our listeners will follow you on Instagram at dating, Donnie. So why? Oh, dating down with you. I will put the link in the show notes to check them out, y’all. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. That is it for Episode 313 of dates and mates. You can follow Donnie on Instagram at dating, Donnie, do n NY and make sure to check out the podcast naughty but nice, trust me. It is so fun. And remember also that we need your voice now, more than ever. I don’t usually talk politics on the show. But I really want to encourage you to use your voice and to vote. And just like I want you to become confident in dating and relationships. I want to encourage you to take that same energy and invest it in democracy. Some states have primary elections coming up Hello, Georgia, West Virginia, June 9. That’s tomorrow. After this episode drops, and Atlanta, I know you’re listening because I have a lot of listeners in Atlanta who’ve written to me, so make sure you have your voice heard. Also on the 23rd, Kentucky and New York, shout out to my peeps in New York. And remember, there are so many more things on the ballot that matter than just president. So pay attention to your local government and your Senate and House races as well as ballot initiatives, as those are all things that are going to affect your day to day rites and experiences. If you’re curious which causes I’m supporting right now, I’ve just made donations to the black futures lab and n double A CP Legal Defense Fund to ensure that everyone’s voice can be heard in this country. I encourage you to support them or whichever causes will create the change you want to see in the world. Thank you to those of us who’ve supported the show by becoming a Patreon friends with benefits. You can get show exclusives and contribute to this podcast. Continuing To expand and heal more hearts by signing up for just $5 a month@patreon.com, slash dates and mates, in spite of everything happening right now, I know your love lives are not unhold and I still want to hear from you. I’m at damona Hoffman on all the socials, connect with me. Send me your questions, send me your thoughts, use your voice. And until next week, I wish you happy dating

The Art of Charm & Interracial Love

 

CHANGE IS GOOD

How are you holding up?

We are not okay. 

We mourn the loss of Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, and Ahmaud Arbery and our hearts are with all the individuals using their voices to enact positive, systematic change.

Damona has been talking about it more on her social media. If you would like to join the conversation, please don’t hesitate to leave a comment!

 

View this post on Instagram

 

Today I’m mourning the loss of Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, and Ahmaud Arbery and I’m thinking about the collective inherited trauma that we carry with us.⁠⠀ ⁠⠀ Right now is the time for action and active conversation. If you don’t understand the protests happening around the country I encourage you to educate yourself and find a perspective different than yours. That’s what creates compassion. And that’s what ultimately is going to heal.⁠⠀ ⁠⠀ Even if you can’t truly understand our experience and our cause, you can stand up for what is right and can teach the people around you what is happening in the world. We can find ways to change how our country views and treats people of color – especially black men.⁠⠀ ⁠⠀ Love is the tool that’s going to make change.⁠⠀ ⁠⠀ Spread love and understanding.⁠⠀ Vote for representatives who will enact systematic change.⁠⠀ And represent your community by completing this year’s census at 2020census.gov⁠⠀ ⁠⠀ Artwork by @Shirien.creates⁠⠀ ⁠⠀ #BreonnaTaylor #GeorgeFloyd #AhmaudArbery #blacklivesmatter #humanrights #protest #equality #socialjustice #BlackLove # #blackandproud #blackamericatoday #takeaction #dailyquotes #dailyinspiration #bethechange

A post shared by Damona Hoffman (@damonahoffman) on

 

We thought long and hard about whether to drop an episode of Dates & Mates today, but came to the conclusion that even in hard times like these, it is still our responsibility to use our voice.

And to spread as much love as we can

So if you are looking for a small distraction from the world around you, today’s episode is all about adaptability and confidence as modern dating is impacted by the events around us.

Our guest Erin Muroski, who has spent years inside the mind of men as an Art of Charm flirting coach, gives us tips on how to set yourself up for success.

FLEXIBILITY & ADAPTABILITY (0:00)

If you’ve listened to this show for a while, you know that we encourage anyone looking for love to embrace adaptability.

Not only is it an important skill for the advancement of the human race and yada yada, but now more than ever it’s time to get comfortable with the flow. Get comfortable with change. Get comfortable with spontaneity and organic interactions with the people around you.

Here is the Washington Post article that Damona referenced at the top of the show

DATING DISH (3:01)

I love my white husband but… 

Damona covers an article written by Laura Cathcart Robbins – who was on the show last month. It talks about how interracial couples can truly understand each other in times of racial tension.

Scott Disick and Sofia Richie Split

After three years of dating, Scott and Sofia have officially split. This comes after a report that Scott has checked himself into rehab to work on some past traumas.

Hey baby, what’s your sign?

What does your astrological sign say about your relationship potential?

THE ART OF CHARM (16:00)

As we said, we’re talking about confidence and spontaneity as states reopen and we move into the next phase of coronadating.

Erin Muroski is an experienced improv coach and dating coach and she’s spent years working with men to help them be the most confident version of themselves.

But here’s why we’re so interested in Erin’s perspective because for years she’s been inside the mind of men as an art of charm flirting coach.

If you heard our master class on flirting from last year, you know I’ve used improv for years as flirting coaching technique and we can’t wait for you to hear Erin’s perspective on this topic.

Find Erin on all the socials @erinmuroski! Don’t forget to check out her super fun podcast, Final Rose Material!

TECHNICALLY DATING (34:50)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • Tweet from OJ – Can monogamy be upheld when partners choose to keep their relationship a secret from everyone else?
  • Tweet from Cherry – I’ve gotten out of the habit of trying to meet a guy so how to begin again?

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:12  

Hello lovers, welcome to dates and maids. If you’re anything like me, you have been glued to the news the last few months and there was an article that came across my desk this week in the Washington Post, about adaptability. I’ll link to it in the recap, which we always do at dates and mates calm, but what you should know is that it talks about why flexibility is important in the post COVID world. And if you’ve listened to the show for a while, you know that I encourage anyone looking for love to embrace adaptability and flexibility. Not only is it an important skill for the advancement of the human race, and yada yada yada, but now more than ever, it’s time to get comfortable with the Follow the flow, get comfortable with change. Get comfortable with spontaneity, and organic interactions with the people around you whether you’re meeting them online or offline. Today I’m talking to Aaron murasky. She is a coach at the Art of Charm which helps people get comfortable with conversation and become a more confident version of themselves. Before we talk to her, I have some thoughts on this week’s headlines that I want to share with you. I’ll be talking about how interracial couples can understand each other better in these tense times and how the COVID crisis may be the downfall to Scott disick and Sophia Ritchie’s relationship. Plus on a lighter note what your astrological sign may say about your romantic potential. That is always at the end of the show. Aaron and I will address your questions including our monogamy and secret relationships. mutually exclusive and how to begin again in love. You ready for this? Then let’s dish

 

Unknown Speaker  2:09  

these dating dish.

 

Damona  2:12  

My dear friend, Laura Cathcart Robin so you’ve heard on the show before posted a fantastic article in Huff Post about her and her boyfriend Scott. The title of this article was I love my white boyfriend, but there’s something he’ll never understand. Laura is a black woman. And she is in a long, long term relationship with Scott who’s a white man. And it’s funny because she wrote this article actually, before George Floyd was murdered. I’m just gonna say it on the show. And she was writing it kind of in response to Briana Taylor and art Armory and realizing that there’s something as a black woman that she carries with her and out As a woman of color, I also relate to this, you carry this constant vigilance and this constant sadness. And I’ve actually been doing a lot of study on inherited trauma, and how a lot of this and this is science, y’all can look it up. It’s not something it’s not pop psychology. But in your cells in your DNA, you carry the emotional experiences of your ancestors and the generations before you what I know it’s wild, but it is fact and even going a couple of generations back and when I think about what my grandparents were going through, what even my mother was going through growing up as a young woman in Detroit in the in the 50s and 60s, it’s heavy and the fact that it’s still coming, it’s still being dealt with today or not dealt with but it’s still a present issue. is something that when you’re in a interracial relationship and you are, you are grappling with it on a daily basis, and your partner hasn’t really had that experience, it can cause a greater divide. But what I said to Laura, and what I’d love to offer up to any of you who are either in interracial relationships, or thinking about interracial relationships is that when you love someone who’s different than you, that is what creates understanding. That’s what creates compassion. And that’s what ultimately is going to heal. Love heals all. And that is what I hope the big takeaway will be for those that read her article and those that are listening to the show is that I encourage those kind of connections and maybe it’s not romantic love, maybe it’s friendship, but through build, bridging those kind of connections and having the kind of uncomfortable conversations, and in Laura’s case, being able to sit with Scott and she’s saying like he’s as out rageous She is but can she really understand it? And the answer is probably not. And my husband can’t really understand it either. But he can take action. He can be an activist he can, he can stand up for what he believes and he can teach our kids what is really happening in the world and ways that they can behave in a different way to change our society’s views on especially black men, but people of color in general, and using that love as a weaponizing it, you know, use that love as the tool that’s going to make change. That is really, that’s really what we’re being called to do right now. So I’ll link to Laura’s wonderful article in today’s show notes, but I really just encourage you all right now to lead with love in this difficult time.

 

I wish I had a snappy transition this next story, but some people that still love each other Ended up, breaking up end up calling it quits. And that has happened to our darling couple, Scott disick and Sophia Richie. Now we covered their relationship early on, like three years ago because there was such a huge age gap between them and a lot of people. Sophia Ritchie’s dad, Lionel Richie included thought it was a phase and it wasn’t going to work. But they did make it three years. But now they’re saying they’re calling it quits. And A source told, told the media told Cosmo that it’s not that there was like a big fight that happened. It’s just Sophia wants to do her own thing. While Scott takes care of his health. He actually checked himself into rehab to work on past traumas, after losing his mom and dad within months of each other. I think he’ll find there’s a lot more in there. And a lot of us when we go into those dark places, and we ask for help, we find there’s a lot more than we realized that we need to pull out and examine and change. So I’m really hopeful for Scott and for his family and his kids that he has with Courtney, that he’s able to really make change. But it really shines a light on the fact that sometimes relationships aren’t meant to be, and whether they end up getting back together or not after he goes through this treatment, it reminds you that it’s okay to walk away from something if you find that it is not. It’s not the thing, the relationship that’s bringing you the most possible joy. So I wish them both the best. Sophia is 21. So she could have many other relationships ahead of her. And Scott really needs to focus on himself and healing right now. But if there’s anyone listening right now that’s feeling like that trauma or that pain, like a lot of us are going through some really heavy things right now. Don’t be afraid to raise your hand and reach out and get help. On a lighter note, if you are looking for the ideal match, maybe you been using the wrong criteria. Maybe you should look to the stars for your connections. Now I’m a big fan of astrology. And you’ve heard, I’ve had my own astrologer Rachel laying on the show before she actually did a fantastic article on women’s health recently. But I don’t judge holy compatibility based on what somebody star side is. There’s a lot more into astrology. But this is just a fun article which we’ll link to where a company called buzz bingo did some research on the longevity of celebrity relationships based on their star signs. And I know you’re curious because my friends at OkCupid said that a lot of people are responding to their questions about astrology on dating apps. So I know I’ve got your attention on this one. According to this study. Capricorns are the most relationship focused and their relationships lasted the longest, but who do you think had relationships that Where the shortest? Ha ha? Yeah, it’s Scorpios not surprised by that one. Scorpios No, no, I’m not gonna throw any shade at you. But you know you Scorpios like things the way you like it. But get this According to the study of a Scorpio paired with a Capricorn. That was a match made in heaven. Hello, Orlando Bloom and Katy Perry. But Capricorns y’all don’t even think about being in a relationship with an Aquarius, aside from them stealing your post birthday glow? It just won’t work. I would love for you all to check this out. Let me know what you think. Do you use astrology in matching? And do you ever go beyond the sun sign? There’s so much else there’s your rising sign. There’s your moon and your moon is about your emotional self and how you are in relationship. So let me know what you think of this astrology. And whether you think the relationships they they highlighted are going to last for the long term. That’s it for this week’s headlines. Up next, we have Aaron murasky, who’s going to talk to us about techniques to be more confident and flexible in dating and relationships and of course, in your everyday life, so stick around.

 

Welcome back. So, as I said, we’re going to be talking about confidence and spontaneity as states now are reopening. Not my se but some of your states are reopening and moving into the next phase of what we will call Corona dating. And so I like to welcome to the show, Aaron murasky from the Art of Charm. She is an experienced improv coach and dating coach. But here’s why I’m so interested in Aaron’s perspective, because for years she’s been inside the mind of men as an Art of Charm flirting coach, you may have heard the Art of Charm podcast and they’ve been Helping men to be more confident and date more successfully for many, many years. You know if you heard my masterclass on flirting from last year also you know that I’ve used improv for years as a flirting coaching technique, and so I cannot wait to get Aaron’s perspective on this topic. Let’s go ahead and give her some big smooches and welcome Aaron murasky to the show. Hi, Aaron, I’m so excited to have you on the show. Because we need we need to understand what’s happening there in the Art of Charm house. Yeah, to be here. And I’ll just, I’ll just kind of give everybody a catch up. We have had we had Jordan Harbinger, who was one of the founders original founders of our charm on the show, many years ago. So people might have one impression of what Art of Charm is, but I understand there’s been, you know, change in leadership, and a bit of a new direction. Tell us what you’re doing over there at Art of Charm and give us a sense of what you’re Roll is in the company.

 

Unknown Speaker  12:01  

Yes. So I’m just yeah, AJ and Jordan originally formed, Johnny jumped on board very shortly after that, to do all of the AJ and Johnny been doing the in person coaching for you know, over the past decade together doing the boot camps. And so the boot camps at the house are, you know, it’s a five bedroom house, beautiful house, in the Hollywood Hills with the pool, all kinds of nice, it’s just like a gorgeous layout. And guys come and stay for a week from all over the world. And they learned self improvement, self development skills, communication skills, so that they’re able to further develop their confidence, their their, you know, businesses, their relationships, everything. You know, after that kind of intense experience of a week long, fully immersive sort of experience.

 

Damona  12:54  

I want to go to this. This is like, I know you have your bachelor podcasts as well as this story. Like the it’s like the bachelor house. It’s kind of like the bachelor house. Yeah.

 

Unknown Speaker  13:04  

But yeah, and and they, you know, instead of all these, you know, women coming to the bachelor house, like they do on the television show, this is the guys like, you know, basically at the house, they are learning new skill sets, then they practice them at the house, with with coaches like myself, and then they go out into the wilds of Hollywood and LA and go, you know, use those skills because like any skill, you have to practice it and you have to like go out and fail at it to figure out how to be better.

 

Damona  13:37  

Okay, I’m just gonna rip the band aid off and ask you how is this different from pickup artistry?

 

Unknown Speaker  13:44  

Oh, gosh, I mean, first of all, let me just say I wouldn’t be a part of the company if it was like, if it was like, what I think what I think of when I think of pickup artists I think of like kind of sleazy when manipulating women into Thinking one thing so that, you know, they’ll hop into bed with you. And that’s really your end game. And it’s funny because I actually had I interviewed with Johnny to be the improv coach there. This was before I really knew what the company was. And when he was sitting there telling me about it, my mind was clouded with that idea of pickup artistry and so I was like, you know, thanks. But no thanks don’t really want to be a part of something like that. And he urged me to come to the house. He’s like, you can sit on sit in on any lesson that we do anything that we do, like come by, that’s not what we’re about at all. And I did. And it was amazing just to see what they’re actually teaching and just like helping guys kind of uncover the best versions of themselves and like really just dive into that self development side. So yes, there’s a pickup part of it as in like the guys do go out and try to make connections with people but The difference is is that at the root of it is like being able to be authentically yourself and and uncover your own charisma and charm so that you’re able to connect with people and the end game is to have stronger relationships. So let’s

 

Damona  15:13  

help people do that today. Let’s help them be a little bit more charming and better conversation skills. This is a question that we get asked a lot on the dates and updates podcast and let’s assume we’re in the future where we’re not stuck in our homes and we actually can talk to strangers out in the wild. What are some of the biggest mistakes that people come into the program with? And what are some tips that you have to be able to inch them into being better with conversation beginning conversations? Mm hmm.

 

Unknown Speaker  15:49  

Yeah, I mean, the biggest because one of the things that I work with the guys on is their approaches. So initial approaches to someone you do not know. And I think the biggest mistake that people make is that they, they come in, and you’re you’re face to face with someone, and you’re like, Okay, I need to just stay face to face with them full on and not break eye contact. And that can show

 

Damona  16:16  

super creepy.

 

Unknown Speaker  16:18  

Yeah, exactly. And that’s going to show that I am like confident and whatever it is like actually all that does is build a whole lot of tension. And it’s when you know, without locking eyes, like it’s scientifically proven that when you don’t break eye contact you after a certain amount of time you’re building so much, so much so much tension. So the two things that kind of go hand in hand with that is yes, of course you’re going to come up and be face to face. At first, you’re going to say hello, you’re going to make that nice eye contact and then like you would do with the friend you’re going to sidle up next to them so that you’re side by side as opposed to just full on icontact. You know, we call that positive body language when you’re when you’re completely face to face. So you want to get into a neutral Body language, get side by side where you know, because typically any, any event or wherever you are, you know, you might be at a bar or whatever you’d be, you’re kind of getting to yourself where you’re like facing the bar, or you’re looking at the concert that’s happening or whatever is going on, that just puts you in a place where the tension is able to dissolve, and then you’re more comfortable, the other person is more comfortable. And I will tell you, when I started working with the guys, and I started using this in my actual, you know, interactions with people, I was amazed at how differently you feel when you get into a more neutral position as opposed to staying face to face even though that’s what we think we’re supposed to do.

 

Damona  17:43  

Well, I like it also because it allows you to take in input from the rest of the room. Mm hmm. Because it can get really intense if it’s just like we’re just eye contacting it out. Yeah, there’s nothing to interrupt the flow or if if there is a low There’s nothing, there’s no other inputs to be able to divert attention and then get the vibe.

 

Unknown Speaker  18:06  

Yeah, exactly. And it’s like, then your eye contact will be intentional. So you’ll give your eye contact when you’re speaking. And then you give your ear when you’re listening. And that way your brain is able to slow down a bit and take in the information the other person saying, and, you know, have a thoughtful comeback and really, really listen as opposed to just having those nerves and smiling and nodding and thinking, What will I say next?

 

Damona  18:31  

Yeah, it’s it’s super intimidating. So, you since you brought it up, what do you say next? That’s another thing that a lot of people struggle with on first meetings or first dates. What’s your philosophy on conversation and trying to figure out what is the next best thing to say and how do you keep that feeling natural and flowing?

 

Unknown Speaker  18:54  

The big over all like we definitely get in deeper to a conversation. flow. That’s like a little bit more next level winter at boot camp. But our overall philosophy is the conversation formula that we use is just question answer statement, the biggest conversation flaw that I see when I’m meeting people and when guys come out to boot camp is we have a tendency when we’re nervous to get on that question train where we just ask question after question after question. And what happens is, is that the other person who doesn’t know you is going to start to kind of build a wall and feel pressure of all these questions that they have to answer. And the person asking the questions isn’t sharing anything about themselves. So at the end of this conversation, which is not going to last long, by the way if you’re just asking questions, because that feels like an interrogation or an interview, the other person’s going to walk away and have not learned anything about you and look, there’s a reason why we like forget names are we You know, but when someone brings something to a conversation, that’s interesting, we don’t forget that we might forget the person’s name. But we’ll be like, Oh, you brew your own beer at home and or, you know, whatever it is, we remember those interesting parts of the conversation. So, it’s important to ask a question, like a thoughtful question, an open ended question, not just, oh, have you been to this bar before? Right? That’s yes or no, it’s not gonna go probably very far. But like a thoughtful question like, Okay, what do you you know, we’re stuck at home right now, or we’ve been stuck at home, what are you binge watching on Netflix? Something like that. So that that leads to a conversation that’s going to unlock a little bit about the other person’s personality and then the other person answers, and instead of what happens a lot of time where we’re just cueing up another question in our head, you’re just gonna listen and then you’re going to give a statement based off of that, like maybe sharing something about yourself or just having something to say about that. Instead. just jumping to the next question, because that’s what leads to fulfilling conversation is giving those statements

 

Damona  21:06  

Yeah, otherwise it starts to feel like an interview. Right? Like, like if I was just like, Aaron, what’s next question? Next question next. Yes.

 

Unknown Speaker  21:12  

Right. But, but I mean, that’s what we’re doing, you know, exactly. That’s what we’re doing here. But you know, like when you’re first meeting someone you want it to be that give and take and not just like, Okay, so here’s this, you know, does it feels like pressure after a while? Oh, yeah,

 

Damona  21:27  

it feels like pressure, like right away. You kind of brought up another point that I think is really important and the people that have listened to the show for a while, no, I’ve done flirting masterclasses and that my own internal flirting coaches are actually like you trained improvisers and performers. And you also mentioned Netflix and I am totally digging the middle ditching shorts if anyone is like not really sure what great improv looks like that Special is so great and it really shows you just what we’re talking about the ability to really listen and stay in stay in the moment and like take the inputs that you’re getting and then react and respond. How have you been able to apply your background in improv, to flirt and coaching? And also, how do you define the difference? A lot of times people hear improv and they’re like, has to be funny. But as I learned to improv is really more about being honest. What’s your philosophy on that?

 

Unknown Speaker  22:31  

Absolutely. I mean, there’s all different kinds of improv Of course, we think of you know, because of Whose Line is it any way and, and things like that. We think like, oh, it has to be like this wildly hilarious comedy but improv like, I mean, we use I know in acting classes, I’ve used dramatic improv you know, where you’re just improvising, but it’s a dramatic scene, like you’re just going off the top of your head and following impulses. And I, my philosophy is it’s just, improv is just a way to make You better at taking information and responding, you’re able to do that in a much faster rate than other people when you’ve really studied improv because you are literally doing mental exercises to do that all the time. You You don’t you know any of my groups that I’ve been in or classes I’ve taken, you don’t just walk into class and go, Okay, we’re going to start a 30 minute long herald of different scenes, you always start by going, Okay, we’re going to do a bunch of exercises to get our synapses firing, right like so to focus to free our minds. And the big thing I’ve noticed with clients when it comes to flirting and approaching people is that we’re our own worst enemy with that stuff. We’re already judging and telling ourselves that we’re gonna what we’re gonna say is stupid, or what we’re gonna say is cheesy or, you know, being down on herself. I’m not funny. That’s what I hear from so many clients all the time. Well, I don’t I’m just not funny. And I’m like, you probably just haven’t ever let yourself uncover that sense of humor. You haven’t just Let yourself be silly and go well, whatever comes to mind, I’m just going to say and, you know, we’ll go from there, you can literally always go, oh, man, that was weird. You know, call it out Who cares? But, but yeah, like, I think it’s just my philosophy is just like I tell literally every single person like everyone should take improv, it helps you even if you’re a CEO of whatever, when you’re giving a presentation where you’re giving a meeting, you’re leading a meeting, whatever, you’re just going to be firing on all cylinders when you’ve taken the time to sharpen that tool of your mind.

 

Damona  24:35  

Yeah, yeah. And it also keeps you able to respond in the moment like there might be something weird that happened. And like, here’s an example I had a client that was in a session with my, my flirting coach was also doing a like mock date and he’s an improviser. So he he knows To keep the conversation going, but they were sitting at the coffee date and this woman walks by with like, this like weird stuff in her hair and like, like a bathrobe like, but she didn’t look like she was homeless or out of it. She was just like, doo doo doo. I’m like running my errands. But I have like curlers in my hair in my bathrobe on and whatever. And it was just the weirdest thing. And I saw it. And I thought, somebody has to say something about that. And I was, I was waiting for my client to just acknowledge the weird thing that had just happened, which would give them such a great jumping off point for a conversation because I think we sometimes feel like the pressure is all on us to think what is the next subject topic, whatever, but sometimes, you might see something or you might be able to connect on something that’s outside of the two of you. That could give you fodder so finally my coach was like, That was weird, right? But if you’re just like laser focused in on like, What do I say? Next, what do I say next and you don’t have that fluid improv sense. You might miss a great opportunity like a woman with curlers in her hair in a bathrobe walking down the street like it’s her regular Saturday.

 

Unknown Speaker  26:12  

Really? Yeah. And you can tell a lot about a person by the way they respond if the person’s like, yeah, I can’t believe you did that. And then it’s like, you probably don’t want to talk to this person. Right?

 

Damona  26:24  

Right. And if you can tell if you don’t say anything, that maybe you’re like, taking yourself a little bit too seriously. Right. I like that you brought up also this. This concern that a lot of people have about not being funny. Because, on one hand, what I hear from a lot of clients is that their number one quality they’re pursuing is someone with a great sense of humor. Although sense of humor is so subjective, and someone that I think is funny, maybe completely annoying to you, or vice versa. But I do think comedy is like one of our only ways of showing our ability to take a risk, right? Like a guy’s not going to go and slay a bear for you like he used to in olden times. But if you can, if you can attempt tumor, then then that might make you look very brave in today’s world. Do you recommend people maybe try try to like, be funny and they’re charming? Or if you’re if people try for it, is it like, that’s never gonna work?

 

Unknown Speaker  27:34  

I yeah, I mean, that’s a really good question. I always have found trying to be funny, is the sure way to not be like, and look, I give anyone credit who’s like gonna take a big swing. You know, but my thing is like, when your aim is to be funny, as opposed to like, I’m just gonna have fun and let my personality come out. Like that those are two very different things. And even when you were saying like, Oh, I’m looking for someone with a sense of humor. I don’t think I get why people say that. But I think what we’re really saying is, I’m looking for someone who has a similar type of sense of humor. To me sense of humor is just hands down, completely subjective. And you’re going to connect with people who you have a similar sense of humor with because you bond over that,

 

Damona  28:25  

yes. And that kind of goes back to something else that I say on the show a lot about love as you are like, don’t try and be something else. Be your authentic self, and you’re not going to be everybody’s cup of tea. But the person that does find you funny, will then be able to make a lot of laughs with you in the future. I do want to talk about other elements of charm of The Art of Charm. And one thing that a lot of people struggle with is body language and image like how to present themselves. What do you do? To help people get more comfortable in their, in their own skin, and is there an element of like, if you You know, I’ve heard like you fix the outside like get yourself some fancy clothes and then you’ll feel great and then you’ll do great.

 

Unknown Speaker  29:18  

I mean look there is there’s a certain amount of just when we look at someone what we see and like if that appeals to us or not. Now within what you know, within the clay that we’re giving of ourselves, we can, you know, not take care of ourselves or we can take care of ourselves we can explore the styles and things that we like or we cannot do that and I think taking pride in you know, your appearance and all that that is that’s important. But honestly like your how you present yourself as far as your your you know, the week basically talk about like, in a first impression, there’s like five pretty important things. And like the first one is smile. Like a lot of times my clients were like, Oh yeah, I smile all the time. I always walk up to people smiling. I’m always smiling throughout a conversation. And then we do what we call video work, which is we video them doing an approach, and they cannot believe how they have like a resting bitchface the entire time. And I’m like, yeah, and it makes a huge difference. When you I always like, you know, we tell guys to do this all the time. Like literally just walk down the street. And as you pass someone, make eye contact and give them a really nice genuine smile. It is almost impossible for someone to just not automatically want to smile back. It’s it’s an instinct that we’re like, oh, that’s pleasant. I gravitate towards looking at this person and smiling back. And you know, it’s little things like that, that we think oh, I understand that. And that’s just very basic, but those basic things all together make a huge difference. Going up smiling, gay, getting into neutral. Body language, having energy, you know, do you want to go talk to someone who’s just standing there like a lump and waiting for someone to you know, like, make their night good? No, you want to go up to someone who’s already involved in conversations who’s, you know, excited to get to know people who’s open. And so, you know, like standing near people, not just kind of away from the crowd trying to observe. So there’s, there’s so many things that go into that. And we definitely dive into that at our boot camp a lot, because it’s all these little things that we act like, Oh, yeah, I’m doing that which most of the time you’re not. And then you know that there, there’s those small things that make a huge difference and how someone perceives us and it’s very hard to change someone’s impression of us. So those first few minutes of getting to know someone are really important.

 

Damona  31:52  

I so agree with you. And I know a lot of people now are thinking, well how does this apply if we Are say we’re listening to this and we’re still in quarantine. Right? And most of the days are happening over video chat. I assume, Aaron that a lot of these techniques and principles can apply when you’re talking to someone via video chat. Right?

 

Unknown Speaker  32:24  

Yeah, I mean, look, there’s a certain amount and all I will say this just I’ve experienced that it’s almost more like a draining is like a, you know, dramatic word to use for this. But zoom calls actually kind of take a lot out of me because I’ve, you know, obviously because I work, you know, in this field, I’m like, okay, I really want to analyze like, why this feels this way. And it’s because I think we’re just staring at each other through an entire zoom call. You’re either staring at the other person or you’re Looking at yourself, and it’s, it’s not right like it’s not what we would do in person first of all, you wouldn’t be able to see what you’re looking like to the other person at all in person unless you have like, they have a mirror behind them, which would be weird, but you know, we’re, it’s that it’s the whole thing of the positive body language and eye contact, you’re so conscious of how you look you’re looking at that you’re looking at them and just staring at them because what else do you have to look at? And so, I tend to now with zoom I make, I try to make the other person the big picture. And I used to do the tiles, you know, see your equal, whatever, but I’m like, all I’m doing is looking at myself and like going, Oh, why do you know like, that’s like, Yeah,

 

Damona  33:42  

so the whole reason like for years when I’m working with one on one clients, people have been like, do you do video calls? And I really prefer not to. And that’s the exact reason why I mean, it’s partially also because I don’t really want to do my hair and put makeup on unnecessarily. Career like hosting television because I was like I want to put on makeup, podcasting much better fit. But that aside, it’s really more about when people are on video conference. Yes, they’re like more self conscious you’re looking at yourself and the work that I do I need people to be able to drop in and hear what I’m saying and really connect. And so this is maybe a vote. I’m still figuring this out myself. I did do. For our hardcore listeners, there is a video training on video chat dating on the Patreon tell you about it later. But for those that are dating virtually, I have been having conversations with other dating coaches. And some of them are talking about doing more phone calls. Like we have the video chat and so we think oh, because all of our work calls are on video chat. We should go right to video chat dating, but there is an argument for the phone call and kind of like you know in high school and we used to stay on the phone with our boyfriends till hours at night. There’s something sort of charming and And simple about about that, but at the same time, like, if you haven’t met in person, building that rapport virtually can be really challenging.

 

Unknown Speaker  35:13  

I agree and I it’s, you know, look, I’m not virtually dating right now because I’m married. But I will say I really my heart goes out Yeah, my heart goes out to people who are right now I have my my, one of my best friends who lives in New York right now is doing that. She’s like, I got a couple of first dates on zoom. And it’s like, really weird. And I’m like, Yeah, I think it’s just gonna be hard to do that right now. Because I know for me anyway, when I was on match.com and eHarmony for a while, you know, way back when, and I found that I eventually had to get to a place where I was just like, yeah, I’m just gonna meet up for someone. I’m gonna only have an exchange back and forth a couple of times. Then we gotta meet up for coffee for like 30 minutes because there’s something to be said, For in person, like the chemistry that you have with someone in person, even when it’s over video chat. Before that it’s totally different than in person. It just, it just totally, you know, like, as silly as it might sound, there’s something to be said for pheromones and things like that. The way someone smells not meaning Oh, this person smells bad. This person smells good. There’s, but there’s a pheromone component that you can’t get into invest all that time and having zoom calls, and whatever and then this quarantine is lifted and you meet them in person and you’re like, oh, like something is just not right. And I just invested all this time and energy into someone. And I can just tell it’s not gonna

 

Damona  36:46  

click So yeah, that’s why we got to keep it loose. Y’all keep it loose. Keep a few conversations flowing, fill your social calendar, and then we’ll see where we are in a month. This is fascinating. Aaron, I could literally talk to you all day. Yes, we do have questions from our listeners. Awesome, and I know you have answers. So it’s time for our next segment. We’re back with your favorite dates and made segment.

 

Unknown Speaker  37:17  

Technically,

 

Damona  37:19  

before we begin, I mentioned a video training in our last segment that you do not want to miss. It’s all about setting yourself up for success in dating during these unprecedented times. There’s also a live profile Polish video training that I did with Susan ibus of the human behavior lab. But you do not want to miss this video training because you can see how you can improve your dating profile like right there. It’s all visual. And then it also shows how you can choose the right kind of dates just based on their facial features. It’s wild and if you’re looking for dating, support in a deeper way, and a community of people who are looking for love Got you. I got you girlfriends and boyfriends, you can get all of that for just five bucks if you join my patreon. But also if you’re new to me and the dates and mates community and you just want to dip your toes in the water, before we officially change our relationship status, you can also check out my free profiles starter kit. It’s a full PDF with detailed instructions and tips on creating a magnetic profile that will attract the right matches to you and it takes 20 minutes or less of your time, y’all I want you to have it and that’s why I made it totally free. And all of these goodies are there for you at dates and mates.com. Okay, okay, I’ll move on. But I just wanted you to know it’s totally free. And you can find it at profile starter kit calm because I really want to help you get online and get a different kind of dating experience going for you. All right, Aaron. These questions have come in from our listeners. This is a tweet from a fella named oj he says, Can monogamy be upheld when partners choose to keep their relationship a secret? from everyone else? Secret secrets are no fun, secret secrets do they hurt

 

Unknown Speaker  39:16  

someone? I think like, why, why keep it a secret if it’s just that you’re kind of like, you know, trying to see if you’re a good match and all that, that’s fine, but I you know, it all comes down to you just have to trust the other person and you have to go, I can handle whatever you know, wherever things go from there. I feel like I never really understood that until I was with was until I started dating my husband where it was just like, oh, you make me feel good and secure and I you know, that’s a hard thing to put your finger on but someone who makes you feel secure. You just don’t worry about that with you just stop having that in the back of your mind as like oh I’m you know, worried that they’re going to cheat on me and after a while if you’re with someone that you’re constantly worrying about that happening with I feel like maybe at the root it’s not the right person because when you’re with someone where you’re in a really where you’re really vibing and you’re in a good place, I think you don’t you don’t worry about that. You’re just like yeah, just trust them. Yeah,

 

Damona  40:27  

and I hate to say this oj. But if you are already in a position and I don’t know the situation, but if this is already a position where the relationship is starting out as a secret I wonder if monogamy is not been upheld from the beginning, like if that person could maybe already be relationship or married or living a double life. And you know, I I’m a big fan of dating apps and or meeting online, what have you, but there are a lot of people out there They’re that have their online identity and have one have another whole secret life. So to me secrets are really a sign of potential problems down the road. All right, let’s move on to our second question. This is a tweet from cherry. She says, I’ve gotten out of the habit of trying to meet a guy. So how to begin again. How I love what she said habit because I really think of dating as a learned skill. And a lot of times people come to me they’re like, I don’t know how to date. And you know, women sometimes feel like they’ve gotten rusty or they’ve lost their Mojo. And I really look at it as it’s something you just have to practice. You’ve just been out of the beef just went out of practice. Jerry, what do you say from the perspective of someone who coaches both men and women?

 

Unknown Speaker  41:53  

Yeah, I mean, I would definitely say I find the best resource for especially If you’re like, Okay, I’m going to jump back into the game here. Maybe, you know, if apps feel overwhelming, just ask some of your most trusted friends. Hey, is there someone that you think I would be a good match with, even if it’s like, I don’t know where this will go, but you definitely would have fun first date. And you know, I think dipping your toe in that way because your friends you know, are going to know you and they’re going to hopefully not set you up with someone who’s, you know, not trustworthy and all that. And so then at least you have that kind of, as opposed to just meeting a stranger on the internet, you at least have that kind of security and knowing Okay, we have mutual friends, they think we’d have fun, not a lot of pressure. Maybe even we’ll just become friends after this, and that’s fine, too.

 

Damona  42:48  

Mm hmm. And maybe we can even reframe this for her, like she said, trying to meet a guy. What’s your reaction to that Aaron like, Is it is it something that you need to be changed? trying it? Or is it more just like about being open?

 

Unknown Speaker  43:05  

Yeah, I definitely think there’s the peace of being open to that and kind of looking at people with that different perspective of like, Oh, is this someone that I’m like, would would fit the kind of criteria that I’d be looking for for a partner? Because I do think when we say just like, Oh, I just wasn’t looking at all and this person came along. I always found that saying to be very strange, I never felt that way. I always felt like, even when I was like, okay, I’d be totally happy to be single right now. But if some cutie walks up here, and it’s really funny and smart, like I’m gonna notice that right? So like, I don’t know about trying, like I think trying sounds like you’re like you think you have to go out there and put on some sort of act or something or you have to be doing something different other than being yourself being open and knowing what you want from someone. I think if you just have those things in mind like you don’t you don’t want to really be trying you just have to be like, yeah.

 

Damona  44:06  

Oh, bass. Yeah. And I like what you said about maybe going with a setup from a friend. And you know, especially especially at this time you want to make sure that they check out but I, I wouldn’t put too much pressure on the dating apps and Sherry, if you’re not sure what to say, get the free profile starter kit. At data maids calm we’ll hook you up, but you just got to get out there and for lack of a better term, pop that first day cherry cherry. Yes, um, I have faith that she will find someone it’s just me putting one foot in front of the other. Aaron, this has been really fun talking with you. It’s been so great. I enjoyed so many of your insights. Thank you so much for being here. Aaron. Thank you so much. That’s it for Episode 300 12 of dates and mates, you can find Aaron on all the socials at Aaron murasky. Plus, if you’re a bachelor nation fan, you should listen to her super fun podcast called final rose material on Apple podcasts. And while you’re there, also check out the Art of Charm podcast. It’s Aaron’s company. She’s not one of the hosts of that show, but there’s so much advice that Art of Charm offers to men and women on dating and relationships. And don’t forget to join the Patreon we want you in the community you can sign up really quick and easy@patreon.com slash dates and mates and you’ll get access to those special video trainings, you’ll get special access to me so many other things and you’ll be a part officially of this club because you’re not alone. Even though you may feel alone right now you’re not I got you and so many other people in this community want to be there with you throughout all this. If you’re newer to the show, and you’re not really sure that you’re Ready for commitment yet then just download the free profile starter kit. All of that and all of our show notes are always at dates end mates.com and let’s connect on all the socials. I’m at damona Hoffman, I love to hear from you. I love to know which episodes are resonating for you which guests you’d love to hear more from, and what questions you have. So let’s connect. And next week I have a special episode celebrating Pride Month, a fantastic dating coach Dani Meacham, who coaches LGBT daters will be here joining me offering some dating app tips for everybody regardless of how you identify. Until next week, stay safe, be well and I wish you happy dating

Proposing to Him & Couple Covid Finances

QUESTION FOR THE LADIES: WOULD YOU EVER PROPOSE TO YOUR MAN?

I hope you were inspired by the success stories that we featured in last week’s episode Quarantine Love Questions. Hearing stories of new love made us want to share more success stories with you. So today’s episode is about the BIG moment in one couple’s relationship.

You know that moment when a guy gets down on one knee and asks the girl to marry him? Well this story is exactly like that but the roles are reversed and the woman is the one doing the proposing.

via GIPHY

Today we’ll explore why women don’t feel comfortable making the first move with Jenn and Sean, an engaged couple who is writing their own rules on love.

More on that later, first Damona covers headlines! 

DATING DISH (3:15)

Megan Fox and Brian Austin Green call in quits

The first Hollywood couple to report that their relationship ended in quarantine. Damona reports.

via GIPHY

How to weather the oncoming financial crisis

It is widely known that a lot of conflict in relationships centers around finances. In this current financial crisis, the University of Arizona gives us a study on how couples can ease the burden on their relationship.

via GIPHY

COVID Season’s Hottest Dating Profile Musthave

Singles across the country are flaunting their coronavirus antibody results. Is this actually hot or not?

via GIPHY

HOW DO YOU LIKE TO BE LOVED? (10:45)

Question for the ladies: Would you ever propose to your man?

Way back when my husband and I were dating, there was a period where I was just waiting for the proposal to happen. 

He knew he was going to propose. He knew I knew he was going to propose. But the days kept coming and there was no ring in sight.

I thought about proposing to him, but I just couldn’t do it. However this week, I talked to one woman who took the reins into her own hands.

A few months ago, Jenn got down on her knee and proposed to her boyfriend, Sean! 

When I heard their story, I had A TON of questions, and I know you do, too.

On today’s episode of Dates & Mates, they share their story and I analyze what modern daters can learn from it.

This is a really cute story but we also get a better understanding of when and why women should make the first move plus take a peek inside the mind of men who are ready for commitment.

Here’s a pic they snapped just before they went on their life-changing hike!

TECHNICALLY DATING (32:00)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • Voicemail: What’s a good response for when someone asks you “why have you not been married?” I always answer that I haven’t found the right one
  •  Iris in San Diego, sent us these questions: “What will be the impact on marriages? Will the divorce rate go up?” 
  • I went through a breakup last month…and shortly after I lost an extended family member. I feel that I can’t properly grieve either one of these events. Do you have any advice?

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:12

Hello lovers. Welcome to dates in mates. I hope you were inspired by the love stories that we featured on last week’s episode, quarantined love questions. You know, hearing stories of new love just made me want to share more success stories with you. So today’s episode is about the big moment in one couples relationship. You know, that moment when a guy gets down on one knee and asks the girl to marry him? Well, this story is exactly like that. But the roles are reversed and the woman is the one who did the proposing. My nine year old daughter asked me the other day, why is it that the man always asks the woman My husband who was in the room at the time, he replied, he was kind of burying some male shame when he said this, that it was a relic of another time in history when women couldn’t really choose who they married. So he goes on. Do you know who the man used to propose to? And she looked at him confused. And he says, the father of the bride. And for the sake of future generations, I was glad to see that this response totally threw her for a loop. She had no idea what he meant by that. And it always bothered my husband that there was this expectation that he had to ask for my hand in marriage, since he saw me as my own individual person with freewill not a piece of property belonging to the Resnick family. Yeah, so ultimately, my husband did propose and he did, as he says, alert my parents to his plans, although he will swear that he did not Call it asking for permission. My dad looks at another way. Regardless, we all got the outcome that we wanted. But as a feminist I have always wondered, why didn’t? Why did we even have to go through that ridiculous dance at all? Why didn’t I just ask him? I knew months and months, maybe even a year earlier that I wanted to marry this man. What was it that kept me from just proposing to him? Well, today, I’ll explore that question with Jen and Shawn and engaged couple who are writing their own rules on love. But first, we got to get you up to speed on this week’s headlines. We’ll talk about a new study on how couples can weather the oncoming financial COVID storm and spring’s hottest dating profile must have plus our first major celebrity breakup announcement of Corona season. Then we’ll be answering your questions like How do you respond to the Why haven’t you been married question and will Coronavirus increase your chance of divorce All that and more on today’s dates and mates Now,

 

Unknown Speaker  3:15  

let’s dish these dating dish.

 

Damona  3:19  

Brian Austin green and Megan Fox are officially calling it quits on his podcast with Brian Austin green. You got you guys know Brian Austin green. He was on Beverly Hills 90210. And then the reboot of Beverly Hills nine to one. Oh, well, he said that he and Megan Fox who’s like maybe the hottest woman ever born. They have been separated for months after realizing that they’ve grown apart and Megan actually said something in an interview about traveling for work and realizing that she was happier away from her husband than she was together with him and I’m sure for Brian Austin Korean must really sting Like, he’s definitely not going to find a sexier wife, like megan fox is the pinnacle. But it also goes to show you that sometimes you don’t know what’s under the surface of a relationship. And we know the relationship has been Rocky. They started dating in 2004. They got married in 2010. And then apparently they were going to split I think we even covered on the show before, they filed for divorce in 2015. But then they reconciled before the birth of their third child. So now they have three, three kids together. And Megan is saying they’re still going to do family vacations together. And I know a lot of couples want to do this. When there’s a breakup, they’re like, we just want to keep everything like it was. But it’s not like it was you’re not romantically involved together. And believe me, I know of couples that have done this successfully, but I just want to take our foot off the gas and if you’re finding yourself in this situation, we can say what we ideally want to happen in the future. But don’t be too hard on yourself to try to make everything okay for the kids, especially in the middle of a pandemic, something as serious as this, things are going to unfold the way they’re going to unfold. And I for one, I’m sorry that this couple didn’t make it, but I’m sure they will both move on and be happier in the long run. If you are facing some financial trouble. Turns out your relationship may also be in trouble too. There was an interesting article that came out on how couples can weather the COVID financial storm and it gave a lot of great just general relationship advice on how to manage this time including they call it relationship maintenance behaviors, like respecting one another being there for one another and showing love and affection for one another. Which is great and easy to say. And I know a lot of you guys listen to this show, or hear me on other shows talking about like just communicate just just work through it together. But it really is at the core of, of your relationship lasting. So if we just break that down to like what is showing love and affection for one another look like, like at the end of each day. At this point, I’m doing a lot more work than my husband is I produce this podcast, I also produce another podcast called I make a living for the freshbooks brand. I have dating coaching clients, there’s a lot happening. And so my husband is taking on the burden right now of managing the kids and homeschooling. So I make sure at the end of every day, I just say to him, I love you, I appreciate you, thank you for doing this so that I can provide for our family and do other things that are really important. So that might be a good place to start if you’re starting to feel some of those, that friction. And then this article also reminded that receiving financial support from family and friends was associated with higher levels of commitment. For the couples that were studied in, in the study that this article references, so I know a lot of you, you, you want to feel like you can do it on your own, but this is the time to remember that it takes a village. It really does. And you may need to lean on your parents, your brothers and sisters, your extended family a little bit right now so that you can keep yourself from going underwater. It’s the reality that those who are struggling financially are going to have a tougher time making it through Coronavirus and the quarantines and the safer at home and I’m sure a lot of you. I’m speaking to a lot of you right now who are listening to this podcast. But just remember that there are resources out there for you and there are people in your, in your circle in your community, or in your family that want to support you through this because it’s not worth it to lose your relationship over financial challenges if it can be worked through it. You’ve heard me say on the show before, that a lot of times the financial challenges are an indicator of something else. So see if you can get to the root of what’s really going on. And make sure that you’re doing those things like respecting one another, showing love and affection and being there for each other during this time.

 

If you’re still single though, Coronavirus, might actually help you out in getting a date. There was an article that said singles are flaunting their COVID antibody test results now in dating profiles. I really wonder would you guys do this? Would you put your like, I’m, I’m negative. Like some some people have asked me if they should put STD test results in their dating profile. I think this is all a step a little bit too far. And this to me also shows a bit of a desperation for that connection or for having sex and moving offline really quickly and making people feel a little bit more comfortable that you are not that you do not have COVID. It’s the antibody test that they’re talking about. But I’m sure people are doing it also with the the current COVID test, which I actually just had today, and it was super easy. I live in California where it’s free, and anyone can sign up for it. If you’re not somewhere where you can get a test like See if you can go in your doctor’s office, because it’s just great for peace of mind. I don’t believe that I have it. I guess I’ll let you guys know next week. But just to know where I stand and as as we start to open our circle out more as we start to move back into dating. You want to know your status. And so it is sort of like the new STI, you have to know where you stand and then communicate that to someone else if you’re going to be intimate, but I do think putting it on your dating profile, maybe a step too far. Those are the headlines for this week. But I have an epic love story coming your way in just a moment. So don’t go anywhere.

 

Welcome back. As most of you know, I classify myself as a feminist dating coach, and I want to push more women to take initiative in their love lives. But a lot of times we have this fear that making the first move will come off as desperate, or will intimidate men. But I know for a fact that this takes a lot of pressure off of men and can actually ease the connection and make you more likely to move into the relationship of your dreams. So I got to interview one couple who shows us what it looks like when a woman takes charge in their relationship. A few months ago, Jen got down on one knee and proposed to her boyfriend, Shawn. Yeah, you heard that right. She asked him to marry her. Obviously, I had tons of questions, and I’m sure you do too. So I’m excited to share their love story with you In a nutshell, Shawn and Jen met in their undergrad dorm hot tub seven years ago and have been together ever since. I also did ask questions about the dorm hot tub. I’m like, how do you get this dorm hot tub? I can’t even get a hot tub in my house and they had it at school. But that I digress. Jen has always taken the lead in their relationship. She actually was the first to add him on Facebook. This was like the beginning of their relationship. And that was a huge relief to Shawn. I was like, Oh, cool.

 

Unknown Speaker  11:33  

Yeah, 50% of the legwork.

 

Damona  11:38  

Yes. Wait, talk to me more about that. Because a lot of times people I say that all the time on the show that women should be proactive. And I know we’re gonna be talking about more about women being proactive in your relationship, but I get a lot of pushback. What was keeping you from reaching out to her first

 

Unknown Speaker  11:55  

at the time, I was very nervous of like, just like communicating with the audience. It sucks because it wasn’t my strong suit. So this thing is really cool because it already has kind of started us off on this whole connection thing. Just like a whole new world.

 

Damona  12:10  

You messaged her first though.

 

Unknown Speaker  12:12  

Uh, yeah, I messaged her and said something to the effect of I don’t mean to be that guy asking someone out over Facebook, but, uh, maybe you would you want to go get coffee sometime. And then I said,

 

Unknown Speaker  12:27  

Well, I don’t really like coffee, but I’ll go get hot chocolate with you.

 

Unknown Speaker  12:31  

Yeah. And then I was like, Well, I don’t like coffee either. So let’s both get hot chocolate.

 

Damona  12:36  

Oh my gosh, you this is the perfect love story. I love it. You asked her out for a date that you didn’t even want to go out.

 

Unknown Speaker  12:45  

I didn’t know what to say. I was like, coffee is what people do right.

 

Damona  12:50  

And the rest is history. Within a year they moved in together, and their relationship moved quickly. But they agreed to take things one day at a time. You’ve heard me say that. on the show before, Jen had some relationship fears, though, that brought her to this defining moment in their love story.

 

Unknown Speaker  13:07  

I had some issues, you know, you always have your first heartbreak. And I work in theater. So I would travel and do summer stock theater and things. And the first summer after we had got together, I offered basically, if he wanted to just have an open relationship for the summer because I didn’t want to get cheated on. Because that I found out that that had happened to me before he kind of in that moment, like, pulled me in and said, No, I don’t want to do that.

 

Unknown Speaker  13:38  

I was like, that’s not really something I’m comfortable with. So I’m gonna go with no but thank you from

 

Damona  13:44  

Yeah, that’s so interesting. That’s so interesting because you were operating Jen based off of your prior experiences, even though nothing that Shawn was telling you in the in that moment, it sounded like lead you believe that’s what he wanted. And it sounds like it wasn’t really what you wanted. And it

 

Unknown Speaker  14:04  

yeah, it wasn’t. And it definitely made me emotional and made me really appreciate him. And I knew a lot like more in my heart that he was there for me.

 

Damona  14:16  

Yeah. And being a relationship minded, female and dating coach. I’m really curious, Shawn, what is going through your head in that moment? And what it takes for a man to commit I do have a lot of female listeners on the show. And many of them would tell me that they feel men are afraid of commitment that if they say anything, like if that conversation had gone differently, and Jen was like, I need you to commit right now. Like, are we is this relationship going anywhere? that that would make a man run away. So what was it the way that she phrased it that helped you realize the role that she really played in your life, or were there certain characteristics that you were looking for in a long term relationship that she lined up with? Or maybe something else?

 

Unknown Speaker  15:09  

And in that particular moment, like I could tell she’s very vulnerable. She was, you know, kind of opening herself up to me. And I didn’t. I don’t know, it never really sat right with me of, like, dating around. I just, I don’t know, I kind of always have been just like, I’m focusing on one thing at a time, so I’m kind of committed to this. Mm hmm.

 

Damona  15:34  

Can you guys talk to me about your parents, relationships and the relationships that were modeled for you when you were young?

 

Unknown Speaker  15:42  

Yeah,

 

Unknown Speaker  15:43  

yeah. So both of our parents were divorced.

 

Unknown Speaker  15:46  

Both of our dads went on to remarry,

 

Unknown Speaker  15:51  

mind multiple times.

 

Unknown Speaker  15:54  

And both of our moms are single and happy that way. Not Not looking for. Yeah,

 

Unknown Speaker  16:02  

something new. And both of both of our moms are pretty much our central parental figure. Yeah.

 

Damona  16:10  

So Did either of you have either before the time that you met or during the relationship, have a vision of what a healthy relationship would look like for you or what your relationship goals were at the time, we both wanted one partner that we would commit to neither of us were afraid of commitment. So let’s fast forward a year together now for many years for over 77 years. And you met an undergrad, so you’re still relatively young. But that’s a long time to be with someone. And also, that’s a sort of pivotal time in people’s lives, where they’re figuring out what, who they want to be who they want to be with. And you’re going through that, considering the needs also Have a partner How did that? Did you ever feel like you were missing out on, you know, playing the field and being 20 something and foolish?

 

Unknown Speaker  17:14  

No. I do like get a lot of almost social pressure of people saying like, like, if you haven’t been with other guys, how do you know that? That’s what you want. For me. It’s just kind of like, I’ve never not been happy with what I have. Why would I? Why would I like ruin this to go find out that this is what I wanted the whole time.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:40  

And that’s pretty much how it feels for me as well. Like I’ve been happy the past seven years. Like why would I give up something that brings me joy?

 

Unknown Speaker  17:48  

Yeah. I love that.

 

Damona  17:50  

So you’re together seven years. Talk me through the proposal. I want to hear it from both sides of this story. This is really You know, I’ve also been asked, I, in my relationship sort of a lead through a lot of the milestones. And at the time when my husband and I were dating, I was making a lot more money than he was. And that was sort of a sticking point for him. He didn’t want to propose until he felt like he had his financial life together, and he could be a caretaker for another person or for a family. And people have asked me Well, why didn’t you just propose them because there was this whole period of just like waiting and waiting and waiting for him to feel secure enough, even though we both knew that the relationship was what we wanted. And I have to admit, like I am super modern on most relationship norms, but this was one area where I was like, I don’t know why I just couldn’t do it. So that takes a lot of chutzpah as my people would JOHN, for you to take the initiative in a world where it’s so it’s just not really considered traditional. It’s not traditional for a woman to be the one proposing. Yeah. Did you ever grapple with like these big questions of what does that mean for our relationship or who I am as a woman? Oh, I had,

 

Unknown Speaker  19:21  

you know, I went through a lot of the same thoughts as you. And there was a time where I told Sean, I wasn’t going to propose to him. He had to do it. And it was it, you know, when I decided like, when I finally decided in that moment, I had been like, MIT This is stupid. Like, I’m not gonna wait for I’m sure he can explain you know, what he was thinking, but I was like, I’m not gonna wait for whatever, you know, he feels like needs to happen for him to feel like he’s in a good spot to propose because I’m in a good spot to propose. And, you know, we either we know this is happening, or we’ll have to figure things out.

 

Damona  20:12  

You know that she’s the one, right, what’s stopping you from taking the bull by the horns.

 

Unknown Speaker  20:18  

So it’s kind of funny. I was in a bit of a similar situation, as you’d mentioned with your husband and always finances. So 2019 was a pretty rough year for me because I had racked up quite a bit of credit card debt from going to grad school and my car was on its last limb because I had about 338,000 miles on it and how to get in a car. So

 

Damona  20:46  

that’s impressive. You got it that far. Yeah.

 

Unknown Speaker  20:48  

Toyota, everybody by Toyota.

 

Unknown Speaker  20:53  

had that. I’m not being paid, I swear.

 

Unknown Speaker  20:57  

But uh, you know, I just couldn’t On this huge financial transaction, I was like diverting a ton of my money to paying off credit card debt. And then I had finished paying off all my credit card debt at the end of the year. I was like, Alright, this is gonna be the big year. We’re gonna do some traveling finally started talking about like, you know, future house plans to start coming up, even though we live in LA and I don’t know how we’re ever gonna afford a house out here.

 

Damona  21:30  

But Jen knew what she wanted. She decided to propose anyway.

 

Unknown Speaker  21:34  

People say there’s the Seven Year Itch like people who have gotten married start to realize they’re not right for each other something and we’re at that point, and we’re realizing that were even more right for each other, but about, I don’t know, half a year ago or so we opened up into even deeper conversation about, like fears of the future and maybe doubts that we had with each other and communicated about that. And it was really, honestly a really rough conversation. Like things that people who do not want to be in relationships look at. And they’re like, yeah, that’s exactly what I don’t want. We got through that night, and I made the decision, right. And that I was going to propose to Sean, I was going to ask him at some point. So I guess that might have been the moment that you know, I knew I was going to lock him in. When you flip and it’s not normal for the woman to propose. There’s not like the same expectations. So I had to figure out about like, doing a ring, what I would do, I wanted to get a ring, but I really wanted Shawn to like it. I really didn’t know what Shawn was. Want for that? So I decided to get some cufflinks and then a few engagement presidents for the day. Also knew I knew the first thing I knew is that I wanted to do it somewhere out in nature with just the two of us. Because you know, Sean is not a crowds person. Yeah, he wouldn’t appreciate a big, like crazy fancy proposal, you know, coordinating dancing or singing or anything like that. So I had to get him. I had to like, figure out a way to get him to agree to go to Death Valley National Park we hadn’t been to yet. And so we took my car, which made it easy for me to pack in all of the presence without him seeing and the cufflinks and my side door on the driver side. I had to keep stopping him from like, going in the Trying to get anything when we were setting up I would keep like I would find ways to like either if he was going to the trunk grab the stuff he wanted really quick first and put it out so that he would grab it before getting to the trunk.

 

Damona  24:12  

Yeah, I mean we have our she acting weird. Yeah.

 

Unknown Speaker  24:14  

I was just like, Oh, cool. She’d be nice. Like, she’s just gonna get

 

Damona  24:20  

I don’t know, I hadn’t seen you have no idea

 

Unknown Speaker  24:22  

at this. No, I had not noticed that. She was like, actively stopping me from going to the car.

 

Unknown Speaker  24:29  

He didn’t know until the moment of

 

Unknown Speaker  24:32  

Yeah, I did not know until quite literally, like started off with the speech which we’ll get to. Then, um, her getting down on one knee. So

 

Damona  24:44  

yeah, um, Okay, tell me about the speech. I want to hear both.

 

Unknown Speaker  24:47  

So I wanted to go to artists palette and Death Valley, which is really like Scott, all these C’s Painted Hills. I knew that we could find a place where we’d be alone. There. My plan was we share a backpack when we hike. So my plan was to put the cufflinks in the backpack and carry the backpack. But we get there and Shawn immediately grabs the backpack. And so I had, I was like, Oh, great. Now what do I do? Sean wouldn’t put down the camera. I was taking so many pictures taking off. Like, being a goofball. Like he is and him taking pictures of me and I was like, how do I get him to be serious for a second? And then I started you know, making more eye contact with him and, and not like being a little quieter. And then I think I I think maybe I actually told him put the camera down for a second. Yeah. So finally, like I had his attention, and he actually snapped a picture right before I proposed of me, which was amazing. And so I started saying, you know, hey, love. We’ve been together for over seven years now. And we’re doing better than we could have imagined. And I start at the end and he cuts me off and he says, Oh, I see. I get it, I get it. You’re dropping hints like this would be a great place for me to propose to you. And I was like, No, that’s not what I’m

 

Unknown Speaker  26:32  

doing. dropping a much bigger hint.

 

Unknown Speaker  26:35  

And kind of like, he caught my momentum there. So I was fumbling a little, and that I don’t really know what I said next. And I swear it took eternity for me to get the cufflinks out of the box. And that I in that moment, I didn’t know if I didn’t plan beforehand. If I I was going to get down on one knee because I thought, you know, it might be weird. I don’t know how I feel about it yet. But in that moment, I totally understood. And I got down on one knee because you feel completely vulnerable. And you know, your life is in the other person’s hands. It feels like and I opened up the box and I said, Will you marry me? And

 

Unknown Speaker  27:28  

he was shocked.

 

Unknown Speaker  27:30  

Yeah, I was pretty much completely taken aback. He

 

Unknown Speaker  27:34  

stopped talking.

 

Damona  27:37  

How and how long was this pause before he replied.

 

Unknown Speaker  27:40  

No, like eternity.

 

Unknown Speaker  27:42  

I don’t know. I probably want to say a couple of seconds. Yes,

 

Unknown Speaker  27:45  

probably. Yeah, ultimately, I’m

 

Unknown Speaker  27:47  

sure it felt like the absolute worst three seconds of her before

 

Unknown Speaker  27:53  

pounding.

 

Unknown Speaker  27:56  

Oh, I didn’t say yes. He said.

 

Unknown Speaker  27:57  

Yeah.

 

Unknown Speaker  27:59  

Yeah. case that

 

Unknown Speaker  28:00  

gratulate me down.

 

Damona  28:04  

For a second, I was like, what’s he gonna say? So now you’re engaged. And you’ve got to tell everybody else in your world about this. I imagine. Like, I come from a somewhat traditional gender roles family. I and, and there was this whole thing of like, my dad wanted my husband to call, he’s probably listening right now I’m gonna get hate mail from him. He wanted my husband to call and ask his permission to ask me to marry him. And my husband didn’t. He’s like, you’re your own person. Like you’re, you’re not a piece of property that I need to get permission to take away. Yeah. So

 

Unknown Speaker  28:47  

he,

 

Damona  28:48  

so he did say I’m planning to ask him to marry. Did you like get anyone’s quote permission to ask Shawn and how did your parents react when you finally told you

 

Unknown Speaker  29:00  

I thought about it, you know, I thought about honestly actually going to his mom. But I ended up deciding not to I wanted it to be more of a surprise. At this point. Everyone had been asking us when you get married Anyway, you know, since we were in Death Valley National Park, we didn’t have any service for a lot of the time. So we could get some text out to some people. But obviously, we didn’t want to tell our parents through text.

 

Unknown Speaker  29:31  

Hey, by the way, got engaged.

 

Unknown Speaker  29:32  

Yeah. So we waited and we were driving out later that night and we called our parents we told them and they were they were all pretty supportive for the most part. My favorite story is that I we called and we told my grandparents on my mom’s side, and my grandma answered the phone and I say Hey Grandma, just calling let you know that Shawn and I are engaged. And she’s like, Oh my gosh, that’s great. And I said, I propose to him, you know, cuz I was so proud of myself, right? She’s like, Oh, wow. And she turns and you can hear my grandpa in the background and she turns to my grandpa and says, Jenny and Shawna engaged. She proposed to him. My grandpa in the background says yeah, cuz he wasn’t gonna do it.

 

Unknown Speaker  30:32  

And then my grandma turns back on the phone and says, He says that’s really sweet.

 

Damona  30:41  

You can totally hear him

 

Unknown Speaker  30:43  

had a total there’s a question though relationship with her grandparents or grandpa specifically but then he threw all that shade I never seen them.

 

Unknown Speaker  30:53  

Oh, he’s harmless. I you know what, Larry, Shawn

 

Damona  30:56  

there’s there’s sometimes truth in kidding. So good. No, what would you have? Would you have proposed? If she had waited?

 

Unknown Speaker  31:05  

Yes, this was the year this is gonna be the big year.

 

Damona  31:09  

So honest question do you feel at all like, robbed of that opportunity to be the one who did the proposing?

 

Unknown Speaker  31:16  

No, because we’re in this together. Like, she got to have that moment. But I mean, I’m sharing it too, because now we’re engaged.

 

Damona  31:24  

Oh, that’s so beautiful. I love beautiful stories like this. So thank you for giving us faith that sometimes you don’t have to do things the way that we’ve always seen in the movies and the fairy tales, you can carve your own path. Thank you so much for being here.

 

Unknown Speaker  31:37  

Thank you.

 

Damona  31:39  

Jen says they’re taking this quarantine one day at a time as well. And they plan to get married in the fall of next year. I love love, don’t you and I love people who write their own love stories. Congratulations to Jen and Shawn. I hope all of you can have a happy ending just like theirs. And if you do, I would love to share it on a future episode. Out of this show to help you get to your happy ever after I have answers to your relationship questions coming right up. Welcome back to dates and mates. Do you have serious dating and relationship worries right now, if you need more support and love or if you just want to get access to special bonus content, our first 200 episodes, live community chats and other special resources inside of the private dates and mates community. I invite you to join me@patreon.com slash dates and mates. The entry level is just five bucks and your membership dollars will go towards bigger and better things that we have planned and we will be bringing to you on dates and mates. If you’ve been listening to the show for a while and you’ve learned a new dating or relationship skill or you just enjoy hearing me talk about what’s happening and dating news and hearing other people’s questions getting answered. We would love to have your support Again, you just go to patreon.com, slash dates and mates. And then you can join the club and become one of my friends with benefits. All right, on to the questions. This one is a voicemail that came in from our listener, Jacqueline, what’s a good response for the question of why have you not been married before, and the example I’m going to use is myself. I am 48. I have been in relationships, and I have dated and been on online sites and I’ve taken breaks and so now I’m looking to get back out there again. And I just wanted to know what you would say to someone who asked that, because I feel like what I say and what my answer is, just doesn’t really work and needs a new spin. Mine is because I haven’t found the right one

 

Unknown Speaker  33:52  

yet. So I would be very curious as to what you would say to this question. People be so nosy on

 

Damona  33:58  

dating apps. Don’t Jacqueline, why have you not been married as if it’s their business as if that’s not information that is to be earned further down the road? There are so many reasons I’m sure why someone has not yet been married. You. I mean, I took my time to choose the right person. And people would always ask me like, why are you still single? That’s another question I’m sure that you’ve heard before. Because you are choosing you’re not just falling into a relationship with the wrong person. Or maybe there’s other stuff that you’re working through either in your family history or your personal life, or maybe you’ve just had some other life goals, whatever it is. It’s none of their business and it doesn’t relate to the relationship at hand. Now I have gotten I have gotten statements from listeners before that say, Well, I won’t date anyone. I won’t date a guy who Is unmarried over 40 because it means XYZ or I won’t date a woman who’s never been married, because it means something we’re attaching meaning to prior relationship history, we’re attaching meaning to stories that we’ve heard. And that’s not fair to you. And that’s not fair to them because they may be cutting off the potential for something really great with you. Because they’re asking his dumb question that they think might actually tell them how the relationship is going to play out. Because really, that’s at the root of that question, right? If I invest my time in a relationship with you, and if I fall in love with you, what will happen to me? Will you be willing to marry me? Will you break my heart? Will you Is there some sort of a red flag that I can see now, that can prevent me from that sort of heartache? But you know, if you’ve been listening to the show, we we have to go through the process. You are going to get knocked out A few times before you can stay up. So I would say twist it around in a flirty way. And do not answer that question. directly. You could say, well, why do you want to know? Or you could say, well, because I haven’t met you yet, or you could say anything that lets them know that that question is not going to be on the table until you are further down the line in your relationship. Iris in San Diego sent us this question, what will be the impact on marriages of Coronavirus? Will the divorce rate go up? Now, you heard me say on the show before right at the beginning of when Coronavirus was hitting in the United States. China was coming out of there several week lockdown and according to stats that I saw there, the divorce filings were up about 25% as the lockdown restrictions are easing. So what this tells me is that Corona A virus is an amplifier. There’s the aspect of, you know, the life and death aspect and in making you really take stock of your life and how you want to spend it and who you want to spend it with, then there’s the added stress of just being in close quarters with someone that you’re not used to spending all day every day with. But I’m hopeful that that means it just brought those relationship challenges to a head more quickly and all at the same time. And that in the following years, we will see a decline and more of a stabilization of the relationships that made it through it because honestly, if you can make it through this with your partner, you can make it through anything. This is hard as hell you guys. This is super hard, and if you can stay together through it, then I really have confidence that you can last. This person sent their question to NPR as well. He said I went through a breakup last month and shortly after I lost an extended family member I feel that I can’t properly grieve either one of these events. Do you have any advice? Well, first of all, I just want to say, I’m so sorry that you went through that. And that you are, you are in this grieving place. A lot of us have lost people close to us. And a lot of people have lost relationships too, and losing a relationship. Even though it’s not necessarily as serious as losing a life of someone in your life. It is losing that person in your life, all the same. And so it does need a grieving process. Whether you were together for a month or a year or 10 years, you do have to give yourself time to process what happened and, and how you feel about that and where it’s leaving you right now. So if you can’t say what you wish you could say to that person, maybe try writing them a letter and this is a letter that you will need Never, ever, ever, ever send. And maybe you will burn in a cathartic ritual when you’re done. But maybe write them a letter to say the things that you wish you could have said. And sometimes that’s enough to just get those feelings out. Sometimes that can get you closer to the healing. And then I’ll go back to something that I said earlier in the show, remember that you have people around you, to support you. And don’t be afraid to reach out and be a little bit vulnerable, be a little bit messy. Tell your friends or tell your siblings or your parents, that you’re hurting right now and you need someone to talk to. And even if we can’t see one another face to face right now, sometimes a phone call or a video chat can be what we need to just bridge that divide and remind you that even though we’re separated, we are not alone. That’s it for today’s episode. This is 311 of dates and mates. Don’t be shy send me your dating and relationship questions. I am here to help. You can DM me on Twitter or Facebook or Instagram. I’m at damona Hoffman, or leave me a voicemail. That number is 424-246-6255. And just like Jacqueline, you can hear your beautiful voice and I can hear your beautiful voice on the show. And let’s spread the love today. Why don’t you share this episode with a friend, someone who needs to hear some of the advice that I just gave in technically dating or someone who needs to hear the story of Shawn and Jen. I will be back next week with Aaron Murkowski who teaches flirting skills for the Art of Charm. And she’s going to give us advice on how to start moving back into the real world with flirtatiousness and fun. Until next week. I wish you happy dating

 

Dear Damona: Quarantine Love Questions

LOVE LOCKDOWN

For the past 2 months, my DMs have been flooded with your questions about love in the time of coronavirus. They have been coming in so fast that I’ve barely been able to keep up and of course the situation has been changing moment to moment.

So today’s special episode of Dates & Mates is 100% dedicated to answering your specific corona love questions.

So this week we’re answering some listener questions!

DEAR DAMONA

Damona answers listener questions about love and dating in this unprecedented time. She gives advice on: 

What to do when you’re engaged but have never spent this much time together? (4:45)

Hi Damona, this is Patty. I’m based in Atlanta, Georgia. And I just had a question for you. So I have been with my fiance for the past month almost three years, which is great. We’re actually supposed to get married this Summer but we’re going to have to reschedule. So that’s not fun. But the most interesting thing about these last six months weeks of working from home together. We just never spent that much time together before good thing is we still like each other. We still want to get married and we’ve not had too many major issues. But I just want to make sure that we’re taking care of each other and giving each other our space and I guess my real question is how do we make sure we don’t go and say nor into big fights and give each other space during this time because we love each other, but we just spending so much time together. So that’s my question.

How to keep moving towards marriage in a pandemic? (9:15)

Lockdown occurred 5 months into us dating. We FaceTime a lot and it’s going great! I want to define the relationship but the timing of this is a bit extreme since we haven’t seen each other in person in many weeks. How do I stay the course and keep the romantic relationship moving towards marriage coming out of a pandemic?

How do you break up during quarantine? (12:00)

How do you break up during this Quarantine? Or do you just let it ride till we are out of this?

When is it okay to move from sexting to sex in a pandemic? (14:20)

Is it ok to do an in-person date after getting tested negative for corona?

Can healthcare workers even date right now? (19:40)

I’m an RN and I’m volunteering to go to NYC to help the crisis. Being sent in a week. I should probably just assume I’m not gonna be dating anyone for a while considering I’ll still have a 2 week quarantine even after I’m done, right?

What are the best apps to meet right now? (21:35)

Now that all of us in America and Europe are stuck at home, what are the best apps or ways to virtually meet people around the world?

How not to lean too much on your partner for emotional support? (24:20)

What are fair expectations to have? What is the appropriate way to deal with not seeing your partner for like..months or potentially longer? I also feel like its so easy to put more emotional weight on your partner when you are more isolated from other friends/emotional supports and I want to know about ways to mitigate that impulse

How will coronavirus change dating forever? (27:40)

Do you think Coronavirus and confinement will change the way we date deeply? I believe being reminded collectively that we can all be sick and we will all die can push us towards more meaningful connections but is this naive?

DID YOU HEAR THE GOOD NEWS?

Do you want to hear more about Shannon and Mel’s Quarantine Love Success? Read all about it here! Shannon and her man give us the CUTEST quarantine date idea.

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Unknown Speaker  0:00  

What does his text me so frustrated? He’s just not that into me. I’ve always been bad for attention. I’m ready for

Damona  0:12  

modern love Made Simple. This is dates and mates with damona Hoffman. Hello lovers. Welcome to dates in mates. You know for the past two months, my DMS have been flooded with questions about love in the time of Coronavirus. They have been coming in so fast and so furious that I’ve barely been able to keep up and of course the situation has been changing moment to moment. So today, we have a special deer damona episode that is 100% dedicated to answering your specific korona love questions before we get to tackling the challenges. I’d like to start off with a quarantine love success story from one of our listeners Shannon. after a breakup. She attended my 30 day dating playbook webinar in January and found love soon after. Here’s her story.

Unknown Speaker  1:06  

Normally I’m pretty picky about like distance. So I normally kind of do the whole five left like nope, nope, nope, too far no piece too short. Nope. I mean, I listened to your podcast and I was laughing like, that’s kind of me. I kind of go through that and don’t even really dig deeper because the superficial stuff. So this time around, I was like, Okay, I need to listen to the voice I’ve been hearing from damona. And so this guy pops up. So I messaged him and so we started chatting and just kind of hit it off and he’s lived an hour away. But I thought you know what he needed to be open minded to go for this. And instantly he was had great questions. He was interested in me he was like, if he remembered things he’d ask me a question and then you know, the next day he might remember what he asked me the day before and check in on me and just really was just all around proving to me quickly that he was pretty amazing. We went out on a Tuesday and We did the whole phone call first because I know that’s a big thing too. I was like, okay, gotta do the phone call before we leave here. So all this was like, right smack before, you know all the quarantine stuff. And so we had planned to see each other again on March 15. Our plan was I was going to go to where he lives and I was going to come and see him for the day. Well, that Friday was when they shut everything down. From then on. We’ve just had these like quarantine pipes at home, get to know you fast forward. No clutter, no people around kind of experience. And I know there’s probably a little bit of pros and cons with that. I think I’m typically kind of a fast relationship person, I need people and it kind of goes too fast and we get to know each other and the kids are involved in the families involved in a big ordeal. But this time, it went fast in a way that was just he and I like totally getting to know each other totally, you know Trying to figure out okay, well we’re gonna hang out for the next three days. What should we do? Like we can’t go anywhere. We can’t go to restaurants we can’t go to the movies like we can’t go to bars like we would typically do on a date. And so you know, we went on hike, and we took the dog for a walk and we ordered food in and we played cars, we played dominoes, we put a puzzle together and we cook together I bought a smashing little aprons and we cook together. And we were just kind of doing what we could do is what we had. And in the meantime, when we weren’t seeing each other, it was kind of funny because I have it on my phone. So we have this whole list in our in our notes on our phone that we’ve shared, of all the things we want to do when everything opens up because we’ve now said I love you. We’ve now like fully committed to each other and all of a sudden is debt. But yet I’ve never been to the movie with him. I’ve never been really in a bar with him. We haven’t done any Have those traditional things that you would do? Yeah, it’s been pretty interesting. And we’ve spent the time away from each other really digging deep and getting to know each other and like there’s definitely been a lot of God signs where we are things that just prove that okay, maybe maybe this is the one I’ve finally been waiting for.

Damona  4:15  

Shannon also told us about an adorable quarantine date that they had. You can listen to it and see pictures of Shannon and her man on the blog at dates and mates calm. If you need a sweet date idea or you’re craving a romantic story. This is it my friends, check it out at dates and maids calm. Hopefully you find Shannon’s story as inspiring as I do. I want that same happy ending for you too. But I know you have a lot of questions right now. So it’s time to get to the heart of the matter and see what’s on your mind.

Unknown Speaker  4:48  

Hi, Damona This is Patti. I’m based in Atlanta, Georgia, and I just had a question for you. So I have been with my fiance for the past. almost three years, which is great. We’re actually supposed to get married this summer, but we’re gonna have to reschedule. So that’s not fun. But the most interesting thing about these last six weeks of working from home together, is we just never spent that much time together before. Good thing is we still like each other, we still want to get married. And we’ve not had too many major issues. But I just want to make sure that we’re taking care of each other and giving each other space. And I guess my real question is, how do we make sure we don’t go insane or get into big fights? And give each other space during this time? Because we love each other, but we just spending so much time together.

Damona  5:44  

Patti, first of all, I want to say congratulations on your marriage, your upcoming marriage. And also, I’m really sorry, there are so many big life events that are being canceled right now. And it does require us to take some time. to mourn that loss like so I’m sure that that is an element that is also affecting the interactions with your partner right now. So maybe just even give yourselves this time if you haven’t talked about it, to really let your feelings out over the fact that you can’t have the wedding that you wanted to have right now. Now, that aside, this is a great opportunity for you, you’re actually getting to work through a lot of the challenges that many couples don’t face until much further down the road. And you’re getting to see what that really is like in the worst case scenario. And I promise you, marriage is not as hard as quarantine relationships will be. I love that you said, you want to make sure that you’re taking care of each other. That is such a key fundamental thing to develop in a relationship to feel that you almost want more for the other person than you want for yourself. I’m not saying give everything away. That’s also not healthy, but I always try Try to think of the other person and how I can meet their needs first, and then hopefully, if you are with the right partner and it sounds like you are, that person will be doing the same for you. And if you’re both taking care of each other, then both of your needs are getting met. Now, in terms of conflict resolution, you want to make sure that you are focusing on listening, listening, listening, listening. And again, thinking of it from the other person’s perspective, especially in the time of quarantine, keeping in mind that he may be just feeling that pressure of finances, that’s also a big thing for men, making sure that they can provide and take care of you. Of course, ladies, we got our own stuff, but that’s still something that’s intrinsic in the way that men are brought up. So this is probably a very scary time for him as well. So make sure that you are sensitive to that and keeping that filter on everything. He’s saying to you, and then it’s really important that couples have their own space, their own physical space, or a process to help you recharge, so that you are coming to your partner with the best possible you. It’s also great if you can set up a schedule, like you would have had, when you were out of quarantine, you weren’t together all day, every day you were working, you were doing other things. Make sure you have that schedule still. And that you have times that you come back together. I talked on the show before about the importance of quarantine date nights, have that time where you can look forward to being together again. And then the time in between that that you are separated even if you’re in the same room. I love my apple EarPods Pro, they’re not paying me to say this but they have really amazing noise cancelling function where you can just block everything out focus on what you have to do and then when you are ready to focus on your partner. You can Focus on each other. And I really, really hope that you have the wedding that you dream of, maybe it’s not going to be this summer, but that you are really able to celebrate your love the way that you want to do it when the time is right.

Our next question came to us. In an email this person says locked down occurred five months into us dating, we facetimed a lot and it’s going great. I want to define the relationship at the timing of this is a bit extreme. Since we haven’t seen each other in person in many weeks. How do I stay the course and keep the romantic relationship moving towards marriage coming out of a pandemic? Hold on a second moving towards marriage. You’ve been dating five months and I know there are many relationships that are very successful after only dating a few weeks or months. But let’s not put the cart before the horse you had five months of dating and now you’ve had at least two months separation. So let’s just put the big M word aside for a minute, that may not be the path that we’re on and that is okay. It’s okay not to know. This is something that I really help my clients develop in my one on one coaching program, the comfortability with discomfort, right? Getting to be okay with not having the answers, not knowing where something is headed at every point. And you’ve heard me say this on the show before, as well. Being okay being in the moment and letting things unfold. We’ve kind of lost the sense of mystery. And a lot of times people think because I talk about dating, planning, and having a strategy for dating, that you should know every single thing that’s going to unfold for you know, we’re still dealing with people, we’re still dealing with emotions. We’re also in a pandemic, we’re dealing with an ever changing situation. So just let that sink in for a moment. And let’s just look at where you are right now. How can you be more connected virtually? Can you do some, some scheduled virtual dates? Can you send each other gifts across the miles? Can you create some sort of a ritual that reminds each other what you had when you were together two months ago? And then maybe you can make some plans about what you’d like to do together when all of this is over. But let’s not put too much pressure on the moment right now, because depending on where you are, this could be going on for a lot longer. And you don’t know this person may have changed during the pandemic, you may have changed. So try to release the expectation if you can. This question was sent to us from a listener in La

Unknown Speaker  12:02  

damona helped me with this whole quarantine? Is it okay to break up with somebody during the Korean team? And if so, do we do it on the phone? Can I FaceTime? Can I just send a text? Or do we have to wait until this is all over before we can break up with somebody they keep making plans for when we get out of this, I don’t want to be with them.

Damona  12:22  

Here’s the deal. We have a responsibility to find our best possible partner, the person that is going to make you the most happy. So by staying in a relationship that’s not right for you, you’re you’re actually blocking two people from their relationship destiny, you’re doing yourself a disservice and you’re doing that other person as a disservice. And I know we’re in a time where isolation feels really scary. And it feels really heavy because we’ve been in it for a while. So you may be thinking, should I just stay in this because it’s convenient because I have this person here or because it’s awkward to end things when we are not in the same space. But ultimately, we have to take care of ourselves, we have to take care of our emotional well being. And if being in a relationship with this person is dragging you down, that’s the last thing that you need added onto your plate when we have so much else that we are sorting through. So I would say if you can flip it in your mind and not think of it as like crushing this person, soul, but think about it as liberating that person and liberating yourself that will help you approach this person with compassion. When you do end it. Now, a breakup text, never, never The best way to handle it. But ideally, you want to do it with the most possible connection. So that may be a phone call, that may be a video call, that may even be a distance meeting. Now that’s going to be kind of hard in this particular situation, but if you can just visualize Eyes, the best possible option for yourself and then find a time to connect with that person not when they’re on the go not when they’re in the middle of work, but when you can have some dedicated time to let them know how much they have meant to you and what they’ve given to you. But to then release them to be able to find their best match so that you can do that too. So we have two questions that are similar that have come to us from Instagram asks, Is it okay to do an in person date after getting tested negative for Corona? and Jordan says when is it okay to move from sexting to sex in a pandemic, asking for all my friends, depending on where you are, I highly recommend getting tested. I’m here in Los Angeles where testing is free for all residents. So if you have that, take advantage of it. I do recommend that once you get tested that your partner also gets tested this is like the new STI actually research shows that Corona virus is actually active in the sperm of people who have the virus. So it is an STI technically, we don’t know how that may transmit sexually, okay. So, we have to also consider if you are having sex with someone, it may pass through sperm, it may also pass through saliva, it may you going to be touching faces potentially I, there’s just a lot of risk. So you have to protect yourself and protect the other person. But just like with STI s, I think you can say I’ve gotten tested, have you and I’d love to be intimate with you. But I want to make sure we’re both being safe. That can get you from sexting to sex in a pandemic, but I think this is a time to not take connections lightly because it literally can be life or death is sex with this person worth your life. You have to make that decision. But a lot of people aren’t taking this as seriously as it truly is. I would say try to save it if you can. May is also masturbation month. We haven’t talked about that much on the show but hey, it’s it’s good timing. Let’s move on. Now that we have crossed the barrier into some racier topics, we’re going to take a little break. But before we go, I have one more quarantine love success story. This one comes to us from a listener named Mel.

Unknown Speaker  16:33  

I started listening to a date to me it’s about a year ago and started intentionally dating and then damona sent me information on how to polish my profile. then a month later, I met this great guy. We been together now for over three months and it’s going really well. quarantine definitely slowed down our relationship but definitely in a good way, because it really got us thinking, just creative ways to keep the relationship going. Because we both knew we were still interested in each other. We played games with each other like audio, and video dates. We also like, talked about different date ideas like ordering each other, like takeout food. And watching in a movie together, we’ve made lists about movies that he’s seen that I haven’t and movies that I’ve seen that he hasn’t. So we were we got really creative with dates. For us, it’s worked out really great, because we feel so much closer and so much more comfortable with each other then, either one of us expected to at this point in our relationship And to be honest, if we hadn’t had all that time, like apart, and like forced into like, so many situations where like we have to talk and really make effort for a relationship, we probably wouldn’t be meeting each other’s parents. We keep talking about actually how it feels like we’ve been dating longer than we actually have, but in a good way.

Damona  18:23  

If you are in the Patreon Friends with Benefits Program, you may have seen my secret training video which was just posted with Susan ibex the face reader in it. I did a profile Polish for Mel. And y’all you have to see it. It left her speechless. We also told her how to look for the right matches online just based on their facial features. Apparently, she took the advice to heart and it worked for her, it could work for you too. If you’re not part of the Patreon Friends with Benefits community. I’d love for you to have access to all of them. bonus content, the Facebook community, plus a discount on all of my online programs, you can join for as little as $5 a month, or for $100. You can get a profile Polish from me just like Mel did. You can see what’s inside the club@patreon.com slash dates and mates. And hopefully we will hear your success story on a future episode. Again, that’s patreon.com slash dates and mates do check the show notes for the link. More questions from you in just a moment. Stick around. We’re back. You asked, I answered. And there’s more dear damona This one is a DM on Twitter from Rio. Rio says I’m an RN and I’m volunteering to go to NYC to help the crisis being sent in a week. I should probably just assume I’m not going to be dating anyone for a while considering I still have a two week quarantine even After I’m done, right? Rio is 100%. Right? In this particular situation, I’m all for like, all dating all the time, right? I think it’s all great practice. But you also have to keep in mind, the mental state that you’re in, and the other things that are priorities in your life. Right now like, what, what if you did madly fall in love with someone, and then you cannot talk to them? I’m sure you’re going to be working 12 plus hour shifts, and you’re going to be tied up for at least a few weeks, and then maybe a few more weeks. So is this the right time to potentially embark on your life changing love? Maybe not. Maybe this is a better time while you have this week to yourself to do some self work to do some mental health preparation because I’m sure it’s going to be rough like you’re going into battle Rio, and thank you by the way Thank you for serving the community in New York and all of the people that are suffering from this virus we need you. So we want you to be the healthiest you can be to be at your best self. And we know you know, from listening to prior episodes, that love is like your brain on drugs. And you need to have your brain 100% in the in the game. So even though I’m all dating all the time, I think this is the time for you to focus on you. And to get your get your mind right to get your heart right, and to get ready to serve. This question comes to us from joy from LA give it a listen.

Unknown Speaker  21:40  

This is joy from LA and I want to know, now that all of us in America and Europe are stuck at home, what are the best apps or ways to virtually meet people around the world?

Damona  21:53  

This is literally one of the most asked questions that I get. So I’m not going to sound like a broken record, but I’m just gonna To remind you that apps are specific to each person finding the right app is as important as finding the right person. You have to sample and each city has a different app that’s really hot there. So you have to figure out what’s the right app for your city. What’s the right app for you. You’ll look at the functionality, the matches, you’ll also look at the response rates that you’re getting, you want to split test. I’m going to get really dating expert nerdy right now, you’re going to be on two different apps. And you’re going to have a substantially similar profile on both apps, same pictures, similar text, obviously, each app has a bio like about me. And then some of them have different ways that they put other information in or lack of information, no comment on which app that is. You talk about America and Europe. I want to just remind you that now we have a really exciting opportunity that you’re dating pool has expanded beyond just your local community. And, you know, the sad little five mile radius that most people have been doing to the entire world, what a great time to actually be able to date internationally. Because there’s no risk, you won’t be able to meet in person for a while and you can practice your dating skills, and maybe find somebody that’s going to be a great emotional support through this pandemic, and possibly a very exciting international love in terms of ways to virtually meet around the world. I have been hearing about virtual speed dating, I think that’s a really fun idea. You can also look for Facebook communities and online communities that are around a particular interest that you have and see who you might be able to chat with there. I’m telling you, like Instagram is poppin in terms of a it’s a dating app, and people are searching hashtags and finding new friends that way. So I encourage you to like Look through the the accounts that you like, or even on Twitter, look through threads that are interesting to you. And you can begin a conversation with someone virtually that way. And just look at this as an interesting experiment, and the time that we have during this pandemic, to date a little bit differently and see how it might affect your dating life. Lucy sent us this question. She says what are fair expectations to have? What is the appropriate way to deal with not seeing your partner for like months or potentially longer. I also feel like it’s so easy to put more emotional weight on your partner when you are more isolated from other friends and emotional supports. And I want to know about ways to mitigate that impulse. Lucy, thank you so much for highlighting this. I talked about this a little bit on NPR. It’s been a minute with Sam Sanders and life kit, but it’s very dangerous for you to put all of the weight on your partner to be here. Everything. And yes, that is the impulse right now because we don’t have our friend circle. We don’t have our family. I just want to like give my mama hug. And I can’t even do that, right? But what can you do? Instead of looking at what you can’t do, let’s look at what is available to you. You can still do video chats with your friends or even just phone calls. You can write letters to people, which like when was the last time you wrote letters, you can journal and get your feelings out in that way. You can do meditation, yoga, virtual workouts like I am rolling deep in my one peloton, community and I feel I literally I did my hundredth peloton ride this week, and I literally bawled for like five minutes of it. Because I saw I had so many high fives from these people that I didn’t even know that were so happy for me. I’m almost going to cry again. Right now you guys, there are so happy for me that I made it to 100 rides, and I didn’t even know them. And then I posted about it in the, in the peloton, community. And more people commented and gave me more virtual high fives. So it’s easy to look at it like we are alone and we’re isolated. But it’s amazing if you just step out a little bit and you just reach out how much of a community really is out there to support you. Remember that you have to still make connecting, feel special, make it feel special again. So even if you can’t see each other, you want to continue to send Good morning texts and remind each other that you’re thinking of one another. You want to still find ways to connect virtually maybe it’s on the phone, maybe it’s video chat. Maybe it’s social distance I’ve been to I mean maybe I’m gonna get arrested by the LAPD. I don’t know. I’ve been doing Social distance, wind dates with my girlfriends, we sit six feet apart, outdoors. And we hang and it feels like old times, we’re just a little further apart. And we’re just a little bit in the element. So you bring a blanket and you keep it cute. We don’t have to let this pandemic make us feel limited. We can look for other ways that we can explore different kinds of relationships and different ways to connect. And we don’t know we don’t have the answers. We don’t know how long this is going to go on for. So let this be an opportunity to get to know your partner in a different way.

Our last question came to me from an Instagram dm this comes from Judith all the way from France. Hello Judith. I don’t speak any French. So I was gonna try and be cute and say like something in French but I can’t. But hopefully you can understand me if You wrote into the show in English, you understand what I’m about to say. So Judith asks, do you think Coronavirus and confinement will change the way we date deeply? I believe being reminded collectively that we can all be sick, and we will all die can push us towards more meaningful connections. But is this naive? naive girlfriend, you just said we will all die. You went all the way there. Maybe it’s a French thing? I don’t know. But let’s take that apart out. Like Yes, we are reminded of our own mortality. I think more people are afraid of the sickness right now. But I don’t know that it’s really ultimately going to change dating. So will it remind us that we need to make more meaningful connections? Will it cause more meaningful connections? I believe so. In the short term, I what I’m seeing right now is that people are fatiguing of the multiple multiple dates in a week or in a weekend that we used to have. And I think this is because you don’t know where it’s going. And so it was easy to just do a one off day we’ll just meet for coffee or drinks before the pandemic. But now, getting to know someone may be like a nightly FaceTime commitment. And a lot of people aren’t really up for that if they are not sure that somebody is going to be the one. So I’m seeing that people are spending more time getting to know fewer people, rather than treating everyone as if they’re disposable and looking for the next best thing. And I think that that is a great thing because it’s teaching us a valuable skill. Now, ultimately, I do think the speed of dating is going to increase. But my hope is that yes, we will be able to listen a little bit better. We’ll be able to stay in the moment more we’ll be able to evaluate our matches more thoroughly before we just run out to the bar and grab a drink with someone that We haven’t really gotten to know anything about. But ultimately, it’s up to you all. It’s up to you, Judith, it’s up to everyone that’s listening right now. If you want to see a change in the culture, if you you hated that swipe, swipe, swipe date, date, sex sex sex system that we were in, then why don’t you be the change that you wish to see in the world? That’s it for today’s episode. Thanks for joining me for dear Dimona, it’s Episode 310. If you have a question that didn’t make it on this show, and you want to hear it answered on a future episode, don’t be shy. You can DM me at damona Hoffman on all the socials or send me a voicemail or email and my voicemail numbers 424-246-6255 email Dimona at damona Hoffman comm I’ll put all that good stuff in the show notes. But if you are ready if you’ve been a Inspired by something that I said today, and you’re ready to dive in and have something, some of those more meaningful connections, I have my 30 day dating playbook program that’s here for you when you’re ready to get back to the new normal and get back into action. And it can work for virtual dates, it can work for offline data, wherever you are, it’s there for you at 30 day, dating.com, three, zero, day dating.com. And for those of you who are just exploring the idea, or if you’ve been listening for a while, and you just want to expand your relationship with me, let’s change our relationship status. And you can join that Patreon community@patreon.com, slash dates and mates. It’s just five bucks y’all. So if you love the show, support us, why not we can keep making more dates and mates. You can keep getting your love advice, and it’s just five bucks a month. And you can also get the full profile Polish for me if you want something that’s a little more bespoke, that’s at the hundred dollar level and you can emerge From this quarantine into the beautiful dating butterfly that you were meant to be, like clockwork We will be back again bright and early next Monday with a rather unorthodox proposal story that you simply have to hear. Until next week. I wish you good health and happy dating

Dates & Mates Success Stories: Finding Love in Quarantine

DATES & MATES SUCCESS STORY

This year, both Shannon and Mel completed some of my programs and were able to find their dream relationships. In Shannon’s own words: 

“Normally I’m pretty picky about like distance. So I normally kind of do the whole five left like nope, nope, nope, too far no piece too short. Nope. I mean, I listened to your podcast and I was laughing like, that’s kind of me. I kind of go through that and don’t even really dig deeper because the superficial stuff. So this time around, I was like, Okay, I need to listen to the voice I’ve been hearing from damona. And so this guy pops up. So I messaged him and so we started chatting and just kind of hit it off and he’s lived an hour away. But I thought you know what he needed to be open minded to go for this. And instantly he was had great questions. He was interested in me he was like, if he remembered things he’d ask me a question and then you know, the next day he might remember what he asked me the day before and check in on me and just really was just all around proving to me quickly that he was pretty amazing. We went out on a Tuesday and We did the whole phone call first because I know that’s a big thing too. I was like, okay, gotta do the phone call before we leave here. So all this was like, right smack before, you know all the quarantine stuff. And so we had planned to see each other again on March 15. Our plan was I was going to go to where he lives and I was going to come and see him for the day. Well, that Friday was when they shut everything down. From then on. We’ve just had these like quarantine pipes at home, get to know you fast forward. No clutter, no people around kind of experience. And I know there’s probably a little bit of pros and cons with that. I think I’m typically kind of a fast relationship person, I need people and it kind of goes too fast and we get to know each other and the kids are involved in the families involved in a big ordeal. But this time, it went fast in a way that was just he and I like totally getting to know each other totally, you know Trying to figure out okay, well we’re gonna hang out for the next three days. What should we do? Like we can’t go anywhere. We can’t go to restaurants we can’t go to the movies like we can’t go to bars like we would typically do on a date. And so you know, we went on hike, and we took the dog for a walk and we ordered food in and we played cars, we played dominoes, we put a puzzle together and we cook together I bought a smashing little aprons and we cook together. And we were just kind of doing what we could do is what we had. And in the meantime, when we weren’t seeing each other, it was kind of funny because I have it on my phone. So we have this whole list in our in our notes on our phone that we’ve shared, of all the things we want to do when everything opens up because we’ve now said I love you. We’ve now like fully committed to each other and all of a sudden is debt. But yet I’ve never been to the movie with him. I’ve never been really in a bar with him. We haven’t done any Have those traditional things that you would do? Yeah, it’s been pretty interesting. And we’ve spent the time away from each other really digging deep and getting to know each other and like there’s definitely been a lot of God signs where we are things that just prove that okay, maybe maybe this is the one I’ve finally been waiting for.”

Shannon also shared with us the perfect quarantine date she had with her man. You should ABSOLUTELY steal this idea:

Dates & Mates Success Story from Damona on Vimeo.

Here are a few more picture that she sent us of her special night!

Mel received a profile polish (You can too! By joining the Patreon Friends with Benefits program at the $100 level!). Soon after, she saw amazing results and found love. Here’s Mel’s story in her own words:

I started listening to Dates & Mates about a year ago and started intentionally dating and then damona sent me information on how to polish my profile. Then a month later, I met this great guy. We been together now for over three months and it’s going really well. quarantine definitely slowed down our relationship but definitely in a good way, because it really got us thinking, just creative ways to keep the relationship going. Because we both knew we were still interested in each other. We played games with each other like audio, and video dates. We also like, talked about different date ideas like ordering each other, like takeout food. And watching in a movie together, we’ve made lists about movies that he’s seen that I haven’t and movies that I’ve seen that he hasn’t. So we were we got really creative with dates. For us, it’s worked out really great, because we feel so much closer and so much more comfortable with each other then, either one of us expected to at this point in our relationship And to be honest, if we hadn’t had all that time, like apart, and like forced into like, so many situations where like we have to talk and really make effort for a relationship, we probably wouldn’t be meeting each other’s parents. We keep talking about actually how it feels like we’ve been dating longer than we actually have, but in a good way.

If you’re interested in the resources that helped Shannon and Mel find love, maybe it’s time we changed our relationship status.  

You are invited to become a Friend with Benefits. This exclusive program includes bonus content from the show, secret training sessions, voting power to influence future episodes, a private online community, and more. JOIN NOW!

Self Care & Sensuality

ARE YOU BEING LOVED THE RIGHT WAY?

The foundation for every great relationship is understanding. Understanding how to love and how to be loved.

On today’s episode of the Dates & Mates podcast, my guest Allana Pratt – intimacy coach and host of the “Intimate Conversations” Podcast – shows us the upside to the isolation we are all experiencing right now.

Now is the time for self-discovery. And by self-discovery, we mean truly understanding how you would like your partner to show you love.

More on that later, first Damona covers headlines! 

DATING DISH (3:01)

Are 50 Cent and Jamira Haines #RelationshipGoals?

Here’s a curveball: 50 Cent is making vision boards with his girlfriend. Apparently, for 30 Days they sent each other pictures of things that they wanted and then discussed. Damona explains exactly why you should be doing this with your boo.

via GIPHY

A scary social campaign sweeping North Africa

Sofia Taloni, a trans influencer from Morocco, is encouraging her followers to catfish and out gay men. Not only is this extremely unethical, it’s dangerous. Damona explains and breaks down what it means for us.

Damona’s NPR Relationship Tips

In case you missed it, Damona was on “It’s Been A Minute with Sam Sanders” on NPR. She gives you all the behind the scenes info that was cut from the final episode.

HOW DO YOU LIKE TO BE LOVED? (16:00)

We’re not just talking love languages here. Today, we show you how to get into the nitty-gritty details of your love language.

via GIPHY

 

For Allana, physical touch and cuddling are a big way to demonstrate affection. BUT it wasn’t until her boyfriend one day held her face in a very specific way did she truly understand that she felt loved.

Not only does Allana give us a game plan for achieving some much-needed self-understanding, we also discuss

  • Self Care tips for isolated singles
  • Relationship maintenance for those in close quarters with their partners
  • And how to keep it sexy when you can’t quarantine with your boo

This episode has such deep and meaningful lessons for everyone. Trust me, Allana does not disappoint.

If you’re as amazed by Allana as we are, you should check out all her resources at AllanaPratt.com!

TECHNICALLY DATING (34:50)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • Email from Chatrice: I feel like guys are only on the apps because of “BoreRona” (boredom caused by corona). I know this is true because my FaceTime requests are being breezed over and the slight mention of a post-Rona date sends them into a frenzy. Should I just hit pause on my dating goals and go with the flow or do I cut these bored guys off and keep it moving?
  • J from IG: How do I deal with abandonment issues in a relationship?

 

 

Best of all, it’s super affordable – Dates & Mates listeners like you get 10% off your first month with discount code DATESANDMATES 

 

So why not get started today? We all need someone to talk to right now. Go to BetterHelp.com/datesandmates so you can fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with a counselor you’ll love.

 

 

 

 

What is Patreon?

Patreon is a platform that allows you to support creators like me to keep making helpful content that you want to hear and allow you to get amazing listener benefits by participating

Our page is Patreon.com/datesandmates

What will you get if you sign up?

There are three different tiers. One for our loyal listeners who want to connect with others and keep this show going strong for another 7 seasons.

Sign up at patreon.com/datesandmates for: 

  • an opportunity to work with Damona directly
  • to get quality advice that is tailored to your dating challenges
  • and to become part of a community that will help you find the healthiest, most loving relationships this year

 

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:12  

Hello lovers, welcome to Dates & Mates!

 

Damona  0:21  

one of the biggest issues in dating and relationships is intimacy. Whether you’re trying to find love virtually right now and you’re not getting enough of it, or you’re quarantine with your loved one, and maybe you’re getting too much of it. We are all struggling right now, as always, but especially in this crazy COVID world. intimacy and sex are a part of healthy relationships. But we’re not always clear on how to build and maintain intimacy in a healthy way.

 

Unknown Speaker  0:51  

So today,

 

Damona  0:52  

we are once and for all going to get clear on the intimacy timeline with one of the top experts in this field. Dr. Emily Morse of the sex with Emily podcast. I’ve listened to her show for years and now I’m delighted to welcome her finally to dates and mates. But before you get all hot and bothered, we have headlines including will dating be forever changed by COVID-19? And could jayda and Will’s relationship be in trouble plus the safest places to get your free guide on during the pandemic shutdown? And then in technically dating Emily and I will answer your questions like what to do if you and your partner have different sexual needs and how to deal with insecurities in the bedroom. All that and more on today’s very hot dates and maids This one is definitely not one to listen to in the room with the kiddos. Explicit warning, I’m saying it now it’s going to be hot but you’re going to want to hear everything that Emily and I talked about. You ready For the dates in mates,

 

Unknown Speaker  2:02  

let’s dish these dating dish.

 

Damona  2:07  

According to time dating will be permanently changed by COVID-19. A lot of people have been asking my opinion on this from NPR, you may have heard me do a couple of segments in the last few weeks. You may have read in my new column in the LA Times about this. There are a lot of people speculating about what this will mean for intimacy. So let me just take a snapshot of where I think we are right now. And I can make a guess about where I think it will go. And I’ll also tell you what some of the other experts that time interviewed said, and you can make your own determination about what you think will happen when quarantine opens up and people are able to return to some sense of normalcy. So now we’re in this place where just speaking of dating specifically, people are unable to meet face to face. So I’m hearing a couple of different things I’m hearing there are a lot of people that are really excited by the ability to make new connections without all that pressure. So many of my listeners have been timid about online dating. Well, you know, I’ve always been very bullish about it. But part of the reason is that, that awkwardness of moving offline and into the real world so it’s allowed a lot of new people to step into the space and play in the dating space and the chat space in the flirtation space and see if this could be a good avenue for them to date. So I think dating apps will continue to be on the rise. They’ve already all said that they are having a huge increase in new users and new chats, but we don’t we don’t know what that will look like when there are other avenues available for dating but I do believe it will consistently be up. Now people are having to do virtual dates, and be really clever with quarantine dates and what I love about This is that it’s causing people to be a little more mindful to slow down and also to be more creative and really get to know one another people have been obsessed we talked about love is blind on the show a few weeks ago, people have been obsessed with this idea of finding love without the confusion, I guess of what someone looks like and, and the visual seeing them face to face. But we all know like not every couple made it on love is blind. I’m not saying any spoilers or anything, but not every couple makes it. And so there’s this almost fantasy playing out where people are thinking that this is going to be the answer to unlock all of these problems in dating, that dating timelines are going to slow which you’ve heard me say on the show before and that people are going to become more mindful of who they’re having sex with the thought we talked about the other Netflix show too hot to handle recently. As well, what I think is really going to happen is that it’s, it’s we’re going to return to how it was before but we are going to have new filters in place. Like being able to do that video chat and having it not be weird. I that’s the biggest thing that I think will come away from COVID-19. With as far as dating is concerned, a lot of things that we once thought were weird, are no longer going to be weird video chat dating is not going to be weird. calling someone on the phone who you’ve never met is no longer going to be weird. It’s going to be normal again, like it once was. So I think this is a really great time, but we’re going to go through a little bit of an ebb and flow. They interviewed one of my favorite experts for this time magazine article, Helen Fisher, and she is a she’s a social scientist. She works at the Kinsey Institute. She’s studied the brain on love, and she says that thirst and hunger are not going to do And therefore, neither are the feelings of love and attachment that allow you to pass your DNA on to the next generation. So that’s what we have to remember. Like, I can get all intellectual about dating and dating plans and processes. But when it comes down to it, that drive for procreation and that drive for connection is the strongest thing in the world. That is, that is what drives everything, because we are wired to keep the human race going. And that is not going away just because of COVID-19. So there’s a lot of talk of people abstaining from sex, there was this government. I think it was a New York City slogan about you are your own safest sex partner right now, which is true and which has always been true, but people aren’t just going to forget about having sex or having connection because we had COVID-19. I think what we’re going to see if I can predict for a moment is that once the restrictions are lifted, There are going to be a couple of weird moments, like a first dance at prom, where people are like, I don’t want to be the first one to get out there and hit the dance floor like I don’t want to look weird or be the first one to make a fool of myself. So people are a little shy to enter the dance floor. And then a couple of brave people jump in, and everybody’s like, oh, there, you look cool, that looks fine. I want to do that too. And then everybody is on the dance floor, and then all of a sudden, the dance floor is gonna get really crowded. And people are going to realize that there is a risk right now in dating and making connections with people in holding hands kissing, touching other things that we’ll talk about later in the show. And I think there’s going to be a little bit of a balancing and a retraction where people are going to slow down again, and that’s where I hope we will land in this sweet spot of love and relationships. So check out this article. I’ll put it in the show notes. There was also a mention of really interesting experiment that they’re doing at you Pan. That’s sort of a love Love is blind inspired experiment where they’re trying to help people fall in love over email. During quarantine. I can’t wait to see what the results of that study are. I’m sure we will cover it on dates and mates but it is making me believe in love again. You know one couple that is love goals for life. Everybody has known of the romance between Jada Pinkett Smith and Will Smith. And we all look to them. We see red Table Talk and we see them out together and we’re like, they’re the perfect couple. They’ve got it all. They’ve got it all. But on read Table Talk recently jayda revealed that being in quarantine has made her realize that she and will don’t really know each other anymore. They’ve grown apart to some extent and they’ve been together over 20 years. And there is this lull in the relationship where you start to almost take your partner for granted and then you look at them and you think oh How could you take your partner for granted? This is Will Smith or how could you take jayda Pinkett Smith they’re both so amazing in their own right. But I love in the show how real jayda makes the issues that she’s going through and how grounded they are to make you realize that even though we idealize their relationship, and she is saying she was even idealizing, who her partner was, we can learn so much by hearing her honest take on what’s going on. And she’s saying that in this time, it’s also an opportunity. If you’re in a relationship right now, it’s an opportunity to get to know your partner again, on a deeper level. I’ve been doing like 20 questions and playing all these fun games with my husband, and really getting to see a different side of him. I don’t feel like it’s quite at the level of what Jayla said like I don’t know him at all. But I do feel like I have learned things that maybe if we hadn’t had that time to really slow down and really bond together that I may not have taken the time to stop and ask some of these questions that I’ve had answered. So this is a great reminder for us to not be complacent in marriage or in relationships and to always try to find that spark and that ability to be curious. You know, I’m always talking about that with dating, right. Be curious about your partner. And I think that is the silver lining on all of this, not just for jayda and will but for us as well.

 

Turns out, a lot of people may not be satisfied in their relationships right now because according to adult friend finder, they are seeing a big surge in new users. And this is a casual dating and camping site. So actually all of the so called cheating sites are seeing a big surge and That’s a lot of people trying to escape the reality like it’s intense in there. It’s intense when you are 24 seven with somebody that you, you maybe you really have strong feelings for them or maybe you have been growing apart for a while. And this intensity is just the thing to drive the wedge between you and where you’re seeking, seeking fulfillment from other sources. But here’s the thing on Adult friend finder, they also are helping people move into like virtual sec situations. And they had to launch a new platform called Virgie. I didn’t make it that name, y’all. It’s a platform that provides a safe environment for people looking to explore orgies during COVID-19. So some of these people may be in relationships. Some may be single, but a lot of these common video chat sites that We use like zoom, did you know this, like you cannot have relations on zoom, and not that they’re peeking in on everybody’s video chats, but there is an element of them monitoring what’s happening. And so these virtual sex parties could no longer happen on zoom, and they had to find another avenue for allowing the people that come to their site to be able to do the things that they want to do. So this is just to remind you that there’s something out there for everyone and whatever your need is right now, whether it’s an emotional or an intimate need or simply a sexual need. There’s no shame in the game y’all. You can find what you’re looking for. Online. The Google machine has made anything that you want possible and animation to you at the click of a button. So I encourage you to go out there and find what you’re looking for speaking of finding what you’re looking for getting your needs met, and let’s face it speaking of sex, we have a very hot guest for you today. As I mentioned at the top of the show, one of my inspirations Dr. Emily Morse will be joining me in just a moment, she’s going to tell us everything we need to know about building intimacy from first time sex and consent, all the way to reigniting the passion in a long term relationship. So if you’ve ever asked after what date Should I sleep with him? Does this sex mean the same thing to her as it means to me? am I even doing this right? Then this is the episode for you don’t go anywhere. Dr. Emily Morris is coming up in just

 

Unknown Speaker  13:49  

a moment.

 

Unknown Speaker  13:57  

We are back and I am here

 

Damona  13:59  

with the One and only Dr. Emily Morris. She has a PhD of human sexuality and she is the powerhouse behind one of my favorite podcasts sex with Emily. Please, please, please put your lips together give big smooches to Dr. Emily Morris. Hello.

 

Unknown Speaker  14:19  

Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here.

 

Damona  14:22  

I am so glad to have you here. People have questions and like, I can only take them so far. But you can take them all the way. Emily, wave ready to go. And I will just talk first about your mission with sex with Emily. You talk about make wanting to make sex. Easy to talk about and yeah, so it’s so listable and like topics that a lot of people are sort of

 

Unknown Speaker  14:45  

sensitive about

 

Damona  14:47  

you make it just you just bring down the walls and make it so simple.

 

Unknown Speaker  14:51  

Exactly. I mean, that’s my main mission is because most of us are not comfortable talking about sex because we don’t have any great models for it. Our parents weren’t Talking about it most likely our friends weren’t talking about it. We have a lot of shame around it. We think love is good girls don’t talk about sex and and you know, then what is it? What What message Am I sending if I talk about sex, so there’s just, there’s just a way that I want people to feel more, you know,

 

Damona  15:18  

take away the shame and the and the stigma around it and just make it comfortable. Because really, when we’re sexually healthy, we’re healthy overall, it contributes to a healthy lifestyle overall. So I just try to get people to understand that that’s, it’s something that we need to do to have an overall healthy life get comfortable talking about sex, and then that actually improves our sex life. Absolutely. And so many of our listeners realize that it’s an important part of a relationship and many of them are single right now and wishing for that right relationship. So I want to talk a little bit about building intimacy through the different phases. Let’s begin at the beginning with the people that are just starting like let’s say COVID aside, quarantine aside, they are just beginning new relationships and beginning to be intimate one.

 

Unknown Speaker  16:04  

So this there are actually like for some say it’s five, there’s about four stages of intimacy that we talked about in relationships. And the first one is the infatuation phase. This is the honeymoon phase, the phase that we all crave. And we want to we always, are always trying to get back to this phase. And this is when we first meet someone and we just think, Wow, this person is so perfect for me. everything lines up. It’s like, like, we’re so alike. It’s sort of the infatuation stage and the kind of the diffusion stage. And it’s sort of like and there’s also a powerful like, neurochemical thing going on in our brains where we feel like a kind of altered state of consciousness going on. And it’s sort of like they look at the brainwave patterns of, of people like falling in love, and they’re like, God, it looks like either they’re in love or they do some kind of drugs because it’s very similar, right? It’s a very similar pairing, and there’s a good feeling of euphoria and connection. So that’s like the first stage that we just were like, wow, we are so fused. Everything is just this person is my everything.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:07  

Yeah.

 

Damona  17:08  

So then we move past that because I’ve had like, they’re my listeners are tired of me saying this so much, but there’s no such thing as love at first sight. Like there’s lust at first sight.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:18  

I say that too. I’m like you not love it is lost and that is totally fine. Lust happens, but you are not in love.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:27  

Okay, so how, how can we move on to love what’s the next stage they might Okay,

 

Unknown Speaker  17:32  

the next stage is the conflict and the power struggle.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:36  

This is when you have your first fight.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:39  

This is when you think, oh, like how do I differentiate myself from my partner? Like, maybe we’re not so much alike. You know, we struggle to exert like our individuality in a relationship. And there’s like conflict and you’re like, how can there be conflict in paradise? I didn’t realize, but that is the second stage. And that’s kind of where You know, people kind of last through this stage because some do. But the third stage, if you want me to skip to that that’s adjustment we call the adjustment and consolidation. And that’s where couples end up. This is where couples end the relationship. This is where divorce happens. This is where drugs addictions happen, people start drinking more. And a lot of people don’t get through these stages, it becomes a lot uglier. In this stage. We think Oh, wow. Like I remember the first stage. We’re like, Oh, my God, we are so perfect together. Everything’s amazing. And this is the stage where we’re like, there’s nothing we are nothing alike. And what am I going to do with each other?

 

Damona  18:34  

I’m sure a lot of people are feeling that right now.

 

Unknown Speaker  18:36  

Exactly, exactly. If this is the stage, we crave to get back to stage one. But I think a lot of people are in this stage right now. They might never have seen themselves going into this stage but because maybe we’re quarantined with somebody, and there’s so much strife and there’s we don’t have the conflict resolution skills to get us past the stages is is really where people are, are stuck right? And so I urge people to, you know, to kind of take a beat and realize that we’ve never been in this place before. And there’s like a, there’s an anxiety level that’s like in the ether in the universe right now we’re sort of all experiencing it from every angle, at work and at home and just the consciousness of everyone is sort of a heightened state of unknown anxiety, confusion. And then you put on top of that the person that has to be your most comfort in your joy. Now they’re giving you some strife, it feels like so I just, I mean, I recommend people reaching out and using their resources. I’m a huge fan of therapy. And I think that right now, there’s a lot of therapists I’d say the majority of them are offering online therapy and online coaching right now. And just know that it’s okay. You don’t have to solve it on your own because it’s this kind of language and dialogue that you have with your partner that’s gotten you here. So you’re going to need someone else you’re going to need some more tools from the outside to help you and it’s totally okay. Just like we hire a coach for work, a business coach, a trainer to get in shape a nutritionist, you might need one for your relationship right now. Absolutely. I totally believe in that if you’re single, like, same thing, we agree on the right therapy right now. Right?

 

Damona  20:14  

Right. So what’s on the other side of that Emily? solve the conflicts. Right.

 

Unknown Speaker  20:18  

Okay. So, um, the conflict, right? And, and when you get to this is the stage where this is the maturation stage where you mature, you have learned to differentiate, and this is true intimacy, like you’ve worked through your deepest wounds, you have really figured out, you know, who you are, you’ve gone to the dark places of intimacy as you shared it with your partner. And this is the stage where you say, Wow, we are nothing alike. And that’s beautiful. We are nothing alike. And that’s why we work because we support each other. We come together with these beautiful skills. And we’ve, we’ve, we’ve matured together, we’ve grown it and again, this doesn’t mean that you’ve been together 25 years. This could happen quickly. I mean, this can happen over a year this year. You know, it typically won’t happen in less than a year. But it depends how much work you’ve done individually coming together as well. The comments have you grown? How much have you looked at your past? wounds your childhood, your past relationships? have you dealt with abuse and trauma and anger? And, you know, there’s always work to do, but how much and how much are you both willing to work? Like, sometimes there’s one person who, who’s so into growth mindset and growing together and there’s someone’s like, no, we’re fine. I everything I’ve done is fine. I need to work and grow. I’m really good here. And that’s, that’s tough. Yeah,

 

Unknown Speaker  21:34  

one person wants to grow and another person does not.

 

Damona  21:37  

Yeah, absolutely. You both have to be on the same page. And it’s also I would, I would add into the mix, you have to also be able to trust one another. And that’s, and I know that’s an element of all the work that you do, like if you are going to be intimate with someone whether it’s emotionally intimate or sexually intimate. There’s a level of trust you have to build when you say

 

Unknown Speaker  21:57  

absolutely, I mean, that’s the other thing is that you’ve built trust. See, I just kind of ran through those like quickly, but it’s like you. Yes, I mean trust is. Trust is something that you when you have it you have in your relationship and you don’t really think about it because it’s there. But once trust is broken in a relationship, it can be really difficult to heal, especially on your own. And the couples who like I hear from couples all the time, who say or it’s one person who says, well, but partner cheated on me and it’s been rough ever since. But I should be over it already. Or then the or the person who did the cheating says to me, why isn’t my partner over? And it’s like, well, what work have you done? Just saying I’m sorry, doesn’t gonna do it, or just because years or has passed, those wounds are still there. So you have to sort of rebuild, but you have to do that together. And again, I believe that can best be done in therapy. And it’s very hard to rebuild trust on your own. But yeah, trust is huge. That’s a big part of intimacy is couples like, like having trust, having integrity in the relationship. You know, broke broke through. It’s messy. They broken things down. They’ve rebuilt them. And they’ve they’ve stayed together and, and only like they say like only 5% of couples get to that that last stage of intimacy that really get there and really do it. Yeah. I mean,

 

Unknown Speaker  23:11  

I’m hoping I’m their girl.

 

Damona  23:14  

Living the dream, living the dream, but like, I want to go back for the listeners that are still single. When you’re building trust with someone new, that’s really, really hard. And a lot of times I get the question about when to be intimate with someone when to have sex. And then how do you even talk like, should you talk about it before you have sex? What’s the a DA, being? Sexy?

 

Unknown Speaker  23:40  

It’s a great question. I mean, I do believe that. That in order for us to be in a sexually healthy relationship with to be if we’re going to be having sex with someone, we have to be comfortable talking about it. The problem is where we’re at today in 2020s, that most people no matter what their age are, their their their backgrounds, their everything. They will not come through with it. We don’t have models. We don’t have people have done it. But I do believe and I do know this, the couples who are the healthiest and have the best sex lives are able to talk about it. And so I think before you talk about your before you have sex somewhat with someone how great to just say like, how important is sex to you in the relationship? You know, what kind of things are you into? I actually you could say I, it’s something that I’ve been on a journey to figuring out or getting comfortable talking about sex. I don’t have a lot of experience with talking about sex, but I know that it’s important. So would you be willing to be a partner that could talk about it with me, we could talk about what we like and what we’re into and what we don’t like or if we’ve never done this a we can figure it out together. But I know that sex is a really important part of a relationship. And I think, yeah, I mean, I think the sooner we talk about it, the better especially after you start having sex with someone. I don’t believe in this. Let’s wait a few months while it’s still really great. Cuz that’s when you should talk about it. Maybe just talk about how great it is or the things that you really liked about it. But it’s fun. Because we’re in relationships, and we’ll talk about like, we go to a movie, and we’ll talk about how much we liked the movie will have gone to dinner and we’ll say like, wasn’t a delicious meal. Well, yeah. didn’t love the appetizers. But I really enjoyed the, the main course. Well, we I don’t know if I’d go back there again. But sex we just like, we have the sex, and then it’s over. And then we don’t ever talk about it. And then no one knows

 

Unknown Speaker  25:20  

how it went.

 

Unknown Speaker  25:23  

Down.

 

Unknown Speaker  25:25  

Like, were we in a different, like, read a different thing here. We read different movies where we had a different,

 

Damona  25:30  

but a lot of times people are in different movies when they’re there.

 

Unknown Speaker  25:33  

They

 

Unknown Speaker  25:35  

thought that’s great. And the other is like, this is terrible. I don’t want to do this again. We’re sex in

 

Unknown Speaker  25:39  

my life. Exactly. So how great to be able to talk about it and a lot of my show. It’s funny. People hear the name sex with me. They think Oh, God, I don’t know if I’m ready for that. And I have to tell you that most of what I talk about is getting people comfortable communicating about it. I always say communication is a lubrication. And the more that we talk about taxi, we get comfortable with sex the much better stuff We’re going to have but it’s just getting to that place of, of breaking down the walls together and saying, like, I know this is awkward, but I really think it’s I know that it’s going to help us. So yeah, kind of talking about what your greatest memories are together, like, give her if it’s new thing, like, let’s talk about what did you like about last night and you don’t have to get into what you didn’t like yet because I have a whole process for that. But maybe to start off by complimenting your parents, and God, I really enjoyed the way you kissed my neck. When you kissed my neck, I felt these things run through my body that I haven’t felt in forever. And just affirming. So they know because maybe there was other things that you didn’t like, the let’s lead with the positive. I think we all like to hear the things that you do well, so that’s kind of like for early stage of relationships. I’ve other practices for the stuff we don’t like but I think just really enforcing reinforcing things that went well is harmful.

 

Damona  26:52  

I want to get into how you talk about this stuff if you don’t like and you have some questions actually in the next segment about that.

 

Unknown Speaker  26:57  

But consent comes up A lot

 

Damona  27:00  

for my listeners that are dating and just beginning to have sex. You know, Emily, I’m just going to ask you, I had a conversation off air with another with a male dating coach. I know. And we were talking about consent, and he was talking about like sexy ways that guys can ask for consent. And then he said, I don’t believe in asking for consent for a kiss. And I was like, Well, now we’re like, separating the process of intimacy. I want to get your take on that.

 

Unknown Speaker  27:30  

Well, I believe that there’s a really I think that in this day and age, there’s that Yeah, ask for consent for case i think i think there’s ways that you could do it. That’s really consensual. That’s really like, consensually, it’s positive. Again, consensual comes off as consensual, not offensive and kind of sexy. So you could just say I

 

Unknown Speaker  27:52  

What about just like, I’d really like to kiss you right now. Yeah, I can’t stop thinking about kissing you. Would you Be open i mean i’m really thinking about I can’t stop thinking about kissing you Would that be okay? How would you feel about that? And like looking at someone in their eyes and saying like,

 

Unknown Speaker  28:10  

like that’s the way it’s not like

 

Unknown Speaker  28:11  

I would you mind if I kissed you right now like it’s all it’s all energy yeah I think saying like you know I would really like to kiss you right now how how does that feel to you it’s just a really honest Looking in their eyes you feel seen and maybe you don’t want to but I’ve had guys say that to me. And even though it was really sweet I’m like, oh God, thank you for letting me know that. I’m not feeling that right now but I so I let’s keep talking I’ll let you know if I if that if my position on that changes. You know,

 

Unknown Speaker  28:42  

I’m glad that you can be so honest about that moment. I think a lot of women feel bad saying no to a case or even saying no to sex.

 

Unknown Speaker  28:54  

You’re such a good point here. Yeah,

 

Damona  28:56  

I hate that. We we don’t even you know, we we’re kind of Meaning that we are supposed to be polite, like, how can we get that kind of

 

Unknown Speaker  29:04  

confidence? Right to Mona like, this is the thing is that people is that. So I’ve talked about this a lot on my show. My show as well is that so many women we just have like we just say yes, because it’s so much easier than saying no, like I always I did a speech once. I was like, how many of you have just had sex? Because it was easier than saying now like, how many of you like given that blow job because you’re like,

 

Unknown Speaker  29:27  

raising my hand.

 

Unknown Speaker  29:29  

Same thing, and it’s like, why is it so hard? And I think it’s because we don’t we’re pleasers. We don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. We don’t want to come off as prude. We don’t want to come off as we don’t want to deal with conflict. And so it’s like, and I love that we’re having this conversation because I think it’s like first off for some women. They’re like, Oh, I can say no, like literally they don’t know they can say no. Well, the person already came to my room. I’ve already invited him to my home or we’re already on a date and they bought me a nice dinner and donate. Oh, oh them. You don’t know what else You don’t owe anybody anything but your real truth and your real honesty said in the most, in the kindest way possible in the most like, me doesn’t have to be kind of someone’s being aggressive. But I would, I would, I’ve learned that there’s nuances that to it, and I think of how to say no. And so. So usually what’s happened perhaps, historically, is that and this is sort of a somatic practice. As a medic therapy practice, I’m a trained somatic sex therapist as well. And what I mean by somatic is, is it being in your body, so embodied and really paying attention to when someone comes towards you, or someone’s touching you? How does it make you feel? And so what happens is so So an example would be, let’s say, someone and we probably had this experience where perhaps they just escalated a little bit too quickly. Like maybe the kiss happened. Like, I’ll give you the example of the kiss I just use so maybe someone tried to kiss me. I just I’ve had guys say, like, should we just kiss right now and get over it? And I’m like, no. No, not right now. But just because I say no doesn’t mean that maybe we truly could revisit this later. Or maybe Okay, so no better example that’s maybe more relatable to people is say you start making out with someone, and it’s getting hot and heavy, and then they start to put their hand on your pants. And it’s not like you wouldn’t want that. Eventually, maybe in an hour, maybe next time I see you, maybe in a month from now. But sometimes the whole it shuts out. We just wanted to what we really wanted that moment was just keep making out. We loved making out with this person. And so so so my experience be getting in touch and feeling like, Oh, I felt me get tense right now I’m not ready for that. And then being able to have the word say, put your hand on their, you know, on their hand and say, I’m not feeling that right now. But I’m really enjoying making out with you. So let’s keep doing that. Or I need to take a beat for a moment. Can we just pause on that for a second? I’m so loved loving getting to know you right now. So that signals to them I’m not saying gay. Go home, get in your car leave my house. I’m saying this is escalating beyond where I want it to go right now. And I’m sort of enjoying the arousal process of getting to know you the kissing. And I think we will often either just think we got to shut it down or we got to keep going. And we don’t realize that there’s a nuance to the process of arousal because most men if we’re talking about heterosexual relationships, for example, men escalate quicker than women. Men get aroused and turned on they have more of a responsive desire they respond to things happening in the moment or women or women are more responsive like we need things to build where men are spontaneous, they get aroused a lot quicker. Women are slow cookers and men are frying pan. So literally in that same moment of making out there ready to go to third base to us little tournament. We’re like no, I love getting to know your lips. So sad. Yeah,

 

Unknown Speaker  32:53  

yeah. And I love how you keep

 

Damona  32:54  

reiterating what it is that you like and even when you are giving a credit direction or a reset of the energy. It’s still with a reminder that you like where you are what

 

Unknown Speaker  33:08  

if you just

 

Unknown Speaker  33:10  

don’t you’re not feeling it at all and you need to send a very Okay,

 

Unknown Speaker  33:13  

great distinction so I think if you’re not feeling it you just stop and you say and this happened to me very recently.

 

Unknown Speaker  33:20  

Tell us about it.

 

Unknown Speaker  33:21  

Oh god you guys I’m telling you this is this work is not it’s not like I’m a pro at it I just in the moment sometimes it’s still always a little bit uncomfortable because you feel bad and all those things come up. I’m just telling you ways to do it that are you know, that are a little more that feel good to everybody involved. So I had to say I we were going to make no for round and I thought I’m not feeling this guy anymore. It’s just it. I had already had some hesitations. And I just stopped and I looked him I said, you know, what, can we slow down for a second? And I said, I I gotta tell you, I so love spending time with you. But but but in this moment, right now, I’m feeling like we got to just kind of take a pause. And can we just get up and just kind of go back to my living room. Just kind of chat and then we move down he was it okay. Okay, I said Listen, I’ve just so I have a lot of things happening in my life right now. And this is all true. And I just said I I’m not feeling like I’m in a place to be really physical with you right now but I’ve so enjoyed our time and let’s just do need a glass of water and let’s talk and I was just, I was working through in the moment as well because I’ve learned that if I am not fully on board and my whole body’s out of hell, yes, I can it’s a violation to who I am as a woman as myself. I can’t keep going so I had to say it but I’m saying can be clunky and I feel bad but then I’m he got it though it is it okay. Like I understand you. Let’s talk. I wasn’t saying get the hell out. I wasn’t I was like, let me explain my process. So

 

Unknown Speaker  34:41  

yeah, the other thing that you did

 

Damona  34:42  

that’s really great is you really stayed in the moment like I’m always telling my listeners not to get ahead of themselves, like you weren’t, like, This guy has to get out right now because I don’t know where this is going. You just are like right now this doesn’t feel right to me. And so I’m just going to react to this moment. Exactly, yeah. And that’s a lot of pressure off yourself, right? Because when you’re when you start thinking about, like, what happened before what happened after I mean, that’s another thing like people that have had sex before that realize they don’t want to have sex with someone again, it’s kind of like you were saying earlier, there’s this feeling like, well, if we’ve already had sex, we might as well just have sex again. Now, right, you always have a chance to choose right?

 

Unknown Speaker  35:21  

Every you have a chance to choose in every moment and with every relationship and with every encounter, to be to, to to change your mind. And when we’re present. So what we’re talking about is when we go into an experience like that, where we’re like, I gotta get out, we go into fight or flight. And we go into the future in the past. We don’t make great decisions for ourselves. So to say, we’ll say like, go back to right now in this moment, I am not feeling it. We have totally we have agency over that and you don’t owe anybody anything. You don’t owe anybody another kiss, another sex another date, like really don’t and I think that is women. This is just like we’re breaking, you know, so many years of this stigma and this feeling that women just have to and we owe it to men, and we just don’t We don’t, and we could take care of ourselves and it’s our bodies, our choices, and all those things are really real. And I think the more that we do that in every situation, we’re going to be just so much, so much better set up for our relationship that we can teach our daughters or nieces or the women in our life. How to do that as well.

 

Unknown Speaker  36:17  

Yeah, paradigm. It is. Thank you for reiterating that. Okay, I want to go back, you said that you had some tips in case you you need to give someone some

 

Unknown Speaker  36:32  

constructive criticism. Yes. How do we do that?

 

Unknown Speaker  36:36  

Okay, I love the compliment sandwich. So, do you want to give me an example of something you might want to correct? It can be from your life damona or anywhere else? Like what would be something that you might want to give feedback or that you’ve heard from your listeners? Oh, I don’t like the way.

 

Damona  36:50  

Is there anything? Actually I did get a DM when I was asking for questions about a woman who said she has trouble climaxing during oral sex

 

Unknown Speaker  37:01  

with boyfriend. All right. So that is such a common a common thing. So I, so well that’s, that’s interesting because so what she might be saying is,

 

Unknown Speaker  37:12  

Okay, here we go. So she’d say babe, sweetie, okay, here’s my first step

 

Unknown Speaker  37:17  

outside the bedroom. Number one, you do not have the conversations about what you’d like to change, or giving feedback to your partner in the bedroom after a sex act. Because we’re in a heightened state of arousal. Maybe we’ve just we’re connected where I like the bedrooms. I like that for sleeping and for sex. But when we’re gonna have a conversation about our sex life, do it when you are in an environment where you’re kind of chilling, you keep it light, maybe you’ve just had a drink, you’re at dinner, you’re going for a walk. I love walking and having conversations on a road trip because these conversations can be so awkward and uncomfortable at first. You don’t have to make eye contact if you’re driving your car like okay, babe, I think we should talk about our sex like that. That concept

 

Unknown Speaker  38:01  

is the environment for any conflict IV.

 

Unknown Speaker  38:04  

any conflict, get in the car time to walk the dog with you again. So then so then you say okay, so I realized that I want to talk to you about I’ve been thinking about our sex life. This is the compliment sandwich. And, and you start with something you love. I think that it’s been lately the way you’ve been. The way it’s been a lot slower lately. And I love the way you’ve been like making out and that thing you did with your tongue and my on my neck or my ear felt so good. Like, I feel like we’ve really been, you know, connecting lately in that way. And I realized that when you go down on me it is so it’s like my favorite thing. It’s so hot. I get really aroused. And lately I haven’t been able to orgasm. I was thinking that perhaps if we took a little bit more time with it, and I could have a few more. You know, sometimes I feel guilty because I feel like I’m taking too much time. And I feel like if we He just kind of settle in, I knew that you were kind of into it as well that I would definitely have the most explosive orgasms, and then the last piece of the bread would be, and I know that when I’m really turned on and having orgasms, it just makes me want to have sex every day. He

 

Unknown Speaker  39:15  

want and that’s what he wants. He never wants

 

Unknown Speaker  39:18  

  1. So I mean, that was a lot. You know, that was. That was I was also answering the A common question that women have about why can I orgasm during oral sex? And typically, it’s because women are, well, we can sum up the compliment sandwich first and I’ll get into oral like, but typically you want to be very positive. You want to stay curious. You don’t want to be accusatory or blame I’ve told you so many times to go down. I mean more, why doesn’t this happen? Because the second you do that they’re just out the door. So really, it’s just here’s what I love. Here’s why this would be great in a suggestion and then ending with like, the reason why it’s great for both of you is my best tip.

 

Damona  39:53  

I love that. I love the compliment sandwich. I have so many questions Emily. I would love to just keep on talking You feel like questions, but so many people have submitted their questions. So I’m gonna roll on into our next segment. Do you have questions and Emily and I have answers. So now it’s time for your favorite segment. And I just want to remind everybody, these are going to be a little bit more R rated than usual. But Emily, I’m sure these are no biggie for you. You got it? Yeah, no questions like this all the time. Our first one comes to us from Katie from Canada. She says, My husband needs a few days between sex sessions, or he can’t get hard. Is this normal? And just to give you a little bit more background, because I followed up with her She said she’s 31 He’s 37. She’s never noticed the refractory time before, but since the quarantine she’s noticed that if she tries to initiate again that day or days following it doesn’t lead anywhere or he’s not able to and that feels like a long time.

 

Unknown Speaker  41:00  

Okay, got it? That’s that’s a great question. And I love that she gave me his age because when people email me their questions, it’s really important to people’s age and to know where they’re at So, so, if you’re 37 if he’s 37 so here’s what I think the refractory time for men meaning the time it takes for them to be able to have sex again after they ejaculate. You know, when you’re younger men can kind of keep going. And when they get a little bit older, it can be challenging, but 37 is still young, typically, men start to see challenges around erections. And around in their 40s is when there’s a drop in testosterone. And so what I would think what my first hit from this is that what the first thing is, it could be medical, it could be testosterone drop, it could be if he’s taking any medications, the first thing to look at is as you change anything at all, is he drinking more? Is he on a medication, there’s a lot of medications that actually impact our ability to get to have an erection to have an orgasm. So that’s what we got to look at a lot anything medical, and then we take away all of that. Listen We are in a time of tremendous stress and anxiety, which already before quarantine is the number one killer of our sex drive. When we are stressed, and we are anxious, especially men, I find this in men more than women, when men are concerned about money, their job, something happening, their ability to be in the masculine and take care of the family like that really has an impact on their desire. And so I don’t know that you should be concerned. But I think that maybe I would tell Katie to go a little bit deeper. And just like how I said, to have the conversation about sex in a neutral environment, the same thing goes for this kind of thing. Just say, I’ve been thinking about you. And I know you said it’s gonna take a few days is it you know, tell me about how you feel? Is there anything we could do? You’re doing in a way to help that like, I can’t believe it, you’re not getting turned on because a lot of times what women we do is we think oh, he’s not attracted to me anymore. Something’s wrong with me. Or, you know, and just being like, supportive and saying like, well, let’s take a look at it. Let’s take a look at like your medication, or do you think it could be something stressful Something I could do to help you more like relax right now because a couple days is a long time, like in the sense of like, I’m sure he could still get turned on but I feel like there he might just have other things on his mind right now is what is what I’m thinking. Yeah,

 

Damona  43:14  

I’ve been hearing that couples in quarantine together are actually having more sex right now. So I wonder also if she’s been like, does this

 

Unknown Speaker  43:23  

I don’t know that you’re hearing everything Okay, so I’m hearing that there’s some couples who are like, Oh my god, it’s so great. We’re both home now. I’m not traveling as much for work and we’re just having this time that we’ve always craved. other couples are like, I’m going to there’s nothing sexy about living in this one bedroom apartment and I’ll be doing and staring each other and that is not hot. Because something about you becoming one of candles eroticism when you don’t have the surprise and the mystery in the spotlight at all that is just washed away with this quarantine. So I actually, I don’t want to put any more pressure on everyone. Like I think it’s different across the board. But but maybe Yeah, maybe Katie’s feeling like she wants it more because maybe he’s been away a lot now. Homework. And maybe he’s trying to figure out how to work at home. And how do I make sense of this all. And he’s just really stressed and is more distracted right now. And so maybe creating a space for them and their relationship where they can separate from work and creating a time where they’re scheduling sex, which is one of my best tips for couples always and right now to say, I know that we’re having sex these three days this week, so you’re not one of you isn’t feeling like you’re always rejecting their partner, or someone wants it more than the other. But when you can plan it, and you know, like sex is happening eight o’clock on Saturday, you can kind of start to look forward to it. You can get ready, you can shower, you can shave what you can like, talk about the things you want to do. And then that becomes your activity that you’re both going to share and it works better for for both usually.

 

Damona  44:43  

Yeah, and what else do we have to do right now? Exactly right. I’m all about the date night so I had to make a date night appointment with my husband like after the kids go to bed. Saturday night, your mind. Now he knows this. He knows what’s coming. Okay. We talked about women and oral sex but from the other side This question comes to us from Ashley on Instagram. She says, My boyfriend can’t climax from a blow job trying to deal with my ego thinking it’s just me any tips?

 

Unknown Speaker  45:17  

Great question, Ashley. I hear this all the time. First off, it is not you I wish I could just talk to the collective conscious of women and be like most of the things that are happening with your boyfriend’s your partner’s penis has nothing to do with you. It’s very common that men cannot orgasm from blowjob and and so it could be a lot of reasons it could be the way he masturbates. It could be the way he’s holding his penis. It could be because he’s watching a lot of porn. And it is harder for him to masturbate with with a mouse there is. Now also I want to say yeah, maybe there’s something else that he wants sexually. And you’re allowed to say to him God, I really love performing oral on you. I’d love to know your best tips of how I can make it the best blow job ever. But I wouldn’t ask him in the moment, I would say I’m going to or I would say I want to start asking your next time when you show me what you love because I want to be your best ever. You could do that as well, Ashley but there are I’m hearing this more and more lately that there’s just a lot of men who just aren’t orgasming from blowjobs and I just I’ve always heard it but something lately and I have a hunch it has to do with porn. Because I believe that men are watching so much that’s a whole nother show. We could do more and watching But yeah, I do believe that I’m not like anti porn by any means I get that it serves its purpose. But when we have one way of holding ourselves and one way of generating pleasing ourselves, it can be challenging to bring anyone else into the mix even if she’s like a you know, expert porn star, whatever like doesn’t for a living, it can still be challenging. So best take your ego out of it and just get some healthy communication with your partner.

 

Unknown Speaker  46:53  

That’s great advice, Emily.

 

Damona  46:55  

Okay, this one is another Instagram question from Shannon. She says, what does it mean when your new boyfriend goes limp when you get on top of them? He says he’s had this problem in his last relationships, too. He can function in other positions, but he climaxes quickly.

 

Unknown Speaker  47:15  

Okay, Shannon, this is a great question too. It’s like, I wish we knew her age, but I’m telling you, it sounds like she might be a little bit. I don’t know, younger. I don’t know why I have this sense. But I feel that men have penis challenges, trust him that he has that trust that it’s happened in his past relationship.

 

Unknown Speaker  47:33  

And

 

Unknown Speaker  47:36  

when you get on top of him,

 

Unknown Speaker  47:40  

I mean, okay, so most of the challenges that men face with their penis have to do with anxiety and has to do with things that have happened in a situation that’s happened in the past. And all men want to do is perform. They want to be great lovers. They want to stay at heart and they want to keep going. But sometimes if things have happened in the past, it even only takes one time. We’re like, Oh, no, I’m going to get soft and this isn’t, you know, this, this, this keeps happening over and over again. And then they are they’re reinforcing it and their behavior. It’s a what it means is I think again, you have to kind of understand what kind of like what positions, he functions in other positions, but he climaxes quickly does he climax. So what I’m hearing then is that in every position, he climax quickly, but then when you get on top, he gets soft. So it’s just it’s almost like you’re having, these are challenges that you’re having. And

 

Unknown Speaker  48:33  

yeah, and that’s her favorite position. She was saying that’s the that’s the position that she can come in most easily. But he can’t perform in that can perform that

 

Unknown Speaker  48:44  

way. Well, here’s the other thing I want to say is what I believe that if he gets limp, he can probably he can get harder again. So what we have to do when our partners get limp is not freaked out and not ended just because they’re like, Oh my god, I can’t believe it. You could be like it’s okay baby and then you could go down And again, you can start to touch him, you can use some lube, you can like, get him hard again, because just because he got soft, doesn’t mean that it can’t come back and again in a moment, but it’s the both of you that collective, he’s going, I didn’t say that often you’re like, he’s not hard, and then it becomes a thing, but just be like, it’s okay, babe. And then you could kind of work around, make out again, do some other things. And I guarantee you, he’s going to get hard again. I mean, I’ll come back. And that’s a training thing, and then you get back on top of them. And then if it happens, again, you go back down again. And I think once you both realize that he can get hard again, it’s gonna be able to come back. This is what I’ve experienced with with people, it’s just a matter of retraining, what what means sex is over what means you know what I mean? So I think baby does have experience with that position. And he really think the reason why he’s getting soft is because I think he probably really wants to be there and deliver and he just can’t. So it’s kind of retraining. It’s almost like creating new neural pathways in the brain. That’s what it’s about.

 

Damona  49:56  

Knowing Yes, well, and it sounds like this relationship is knew, but I often hear from people in long term relationships that they want to try new things or they get to this Roadblock, and they don’t really know how to take things in a different direction. What do you say to that?

 

Unknown Speaker  50:15  

Oh, it’s it’s a great question because that is so common that couples are like, what what do we do? What where do we go? We’ve got

 

Damona  50:19  

our friend Emily.

 

Unknown Speaker  50:21  

Exactly. I was gonna say, Come on, girl. It’s okay. But the first thing is, is communicating about it and saying what? I think we can both agree that we want to be the greatest lovers to each other ever. And I love all these things about relationship but there’s I feel like there’s so much more that we don’t even know we’ve been together so long would you can we can we make this our thing right now? Can we figure out what would be super hot for both of us? And a great place to start is you each talk about maybe you will share the most memorable time you’ve had sex like what is the top three moments for you? Like it could be like something that happened or position or glance or a look? And then just by you explaining that And then your partner coming back to you and saying his times, there’s so much detail. There’s so much information just in those moments like, like, the most memorable time could be, you know, when you guys were on vacation, and oftentimes on vacation because there’s no distractions, and maybe you were in a hotel room, and then all of a sudden, like someone else walked in and saw you. And then you’re like, Okay, well, there was no distractions, the window was open, and then someone else walked in. So there was like, the element of surprise, or maybe voyeurism. Or maybe it was it was going really slow. And he was slowly it was the way that he slowly addressed you. Or maybe you had a blindfold on. I mean, there’s intelligence in these in these moments. So I think once we find out these are the things that that worked, and why you like them, and then your partner would share the same things and you can say, Okay, well, let’s do more of that. So that’s a great place to start. Another thing is just to get smart together and a lot of couples Listen, I’ve found over the years I’ve been doing this for 15 years. The podcasts a lot of couples listen together to my show. And they’re like, Oh, well Emily says this and, you know, use me like, I don’t care if people blame me and they’re like, well, like you can stop and be like, what do you think about us trying watching porn together or buying some sex toys together? That is mostly what we’re missing. It’s not that we don’t love our partner, but we’re missing novelty. We’re missing something new and different. So it’s like toys, getting ideas, research, reading a book together, listening to my show, just finding new ways to connect. You know, it could just be even outside the bedroom, like our same bedroom over day over day can get boring. Everything does after a while,

 

Damona  52:36  

especially sex. Thank you for those tips. I’ll be sure to pass them on to my friend. This was awesome. Thank you so much for joining me Emily. I’m so glad to have you on dates and maybe

 

Unknown Speaker  52:47  

you for having me. I’m so honored. And

 

Damona  52:52  

y’all you got to get listening to the sex with Emily podcast or check her out on Sirius XM stars channel 109. She’s on every day. You can find her on your favorite podcast platform. And hey, like she said, you can use the podcast as a jumping off point for your next sex talk. Thanks so much for being here.

 

Unknown Speaker  53:11  

Thank you for having me.

 

Damona  53:13  

We have made it through Episode 308 of dates and mates. I actually did an interview on Emily’s podcast too, and I’ll put a link in the show notes or you can join Patreon, where I’m adding the cliffsnotes versions of all of my media interviews and podcasts that I’ve appeared on. I’ll bullet out everything you need to know so you can follow along and soak up the most important info. But that’s not everything you would get from being in my patreon Friends with Benefits Program. I also have a step by step video training on how to start online dating today. Plus in a few days on Wednesday, the sixth of May, I’ll be dropping a new video training on how to tell if someone is good match for you on Tinder. Just using Facial analysis techniques work. Yes, watch the mind of some of our listeners being blown as they experience the brilliance of a live facial analysis by Susan. I bet, y’all Honestly, this is like a game changer info. It’s all going down in the Patreon. You can get all of these resources for you starting at just five bucks a month@patreon.com, slash dates and mates. I’d love to have you join the community. In the meantime, please, let’s let’s connect. I’m on all the socials at damona Hoffman. And I love hearing from you all all of these questions that we’ve been getting are so rich and layered. And I know that there are a lot of you nodding your head to these questions going, Oh, that’s a problem for me too. And if you’re thinking that then I want to hear what your question is, because I guarantee you it’s going to help somebody else who is listening to the show. Don’t forget to share, share what you’ve learned, share this episode and Please join me again next week all my subscribers get the episodes the minute that they post until next week.

 

Unknown Speaker  55:06  

I wish you comfortable face masks and happy dating

Intimacy & New Dating Norms

A DEFINITIVE TIMELINE FOR ALL THE SEXY THINGS

Almost every week, Dates & Mates Podcast listeners and clients ask the same question on intimacy: when should we go all the way?

Enter one of the top experts in dating and sex: Dr. Emily Morse of the Sex with Emily Podcast!! She joins Damona on this week’s episode to get clear ONCE AND FOR ALL on the intimacy timeline.

More on that later, first Damona covers headlines!

 

DATING DISH (3:01)

Will dating be forever changed by COVID-19?

Pandemic shutdowns have thrown a curve-ball at dating and relationships. What are the repercussions to this? To name a few: anxiety over a ticking biological clock, a change in the intimacy timeline, and better dating for introverts. It’s not all bad. Damona breaks it down.

Is Will and Jada’s relationship in trouble?

On a recent episode of Red Table Talk, Jada Pinkett Smith reveals that she doesn’t really even know Will Smith anymore. What does this mean for their relationship?

The safest places to get your freak on during the pandemic shutdown

You may have heard that Zoom is monitoring closely to shut down virtual sex. Bummer right? Well if you’re into it, Adult Friend Finder has released the very first virtual orgy platform: Virgy. Damona has thoughts.

 

ARE YOU READY TO GO ALL THE WAY? (16:00)

One of the biggest issues in dating and relationships is intimacy.  Whether you are trying to find love virtually right now and you’re not getting enough of it, or you’re quarantined with your loved one and you’re getting too much of it, everyone’s kind of struggling. 

As always, but especially In this crazy COVID world, intimacy and sex are part of healthy relationships. But we’re not always clear on how to build and maintain intimacy in a healthy way.

So today, we get clear once and for all on the “intimacy timeline” with one of the top experts in the field: Dr. Emily Morse of the Sex with Emily Podcast.

We’ve listened to her show for years and now we’re delighted to welcome her to Dates & Mates. We talk:

  • The Four Stages of Intimacy
    • The Infatuation Phases and “Honeymoon Period”
    • Conflict and the power struggle
    • True Intimacy and Unconditional Support
  • Why there’s no such thing as “Love At First Sight”
  • When to take some time to reevaluate what the next step is
  • Therapy For Intimacy?
  • The timeline depends on how much you grow as a person independently
  • Only 5% of couples get to the final stage of unconditional support
  • And so much more!

If you want more Emily, check out her podcast and other content at SexWithEmily.Com

TECHNICALLY DATING (34:50)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • Tweet from Katie: My husband needs a few days between sex sessions or he can’t get hard. Is this normal? She’s 31, he’s 37. She says she’s never noticed the refractory time before but with the quarantine, I’ve noticed that if I try to initiate again that day or days following it doesn’t lead anywhere and he’s not able to. Should I be concerned? A couple of days seems like quite a long time.
  • Ashlee from Twitter: My boyfriend can’t climax from a BJ. Trying to deal with my ego thinking it’s just me. Tips?
  • IG: What does it mean when your new boyfriend goes limp when you get on top of him? He says he had this problem in his last relationship too. He can function in other positions but he climaxes quickly.

 

 

Best of all, it’s super affordable – Dates & Mates listeners like you get 10% off your first month with discount code DATESANDMATES 

 

So why not get started today? We all need someone to talk to right now. Go to BetterHelp.com/datesandmates so you can fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with a counselor you’ll love.

 

 

 

 

What is Patreon?

Patreon is a platform that allows you to support creators like me to keep making helpful content that you want to hear and allow you to get amazing listener benefits by participating

Our page is Patreon.com/datesandmates

What will you get if you sign up?

There are three different tiers. One for our loyal listeners who want to connect with others and keep this show going strong for another 7 seasons.

Sign up at patreon.com/datesandmates for: 

  • an opportunity to work with Damona directly
  • to get quality advice that is tailored to your dating challenges
  • and to become part of a community that will help you find the healthiest, most loving relationships this year

 

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:12  

Hello lovers, welcome to Dates & Mates!

 

Damona  0:21  

one of the biggest issues in dating and relationships is intimacy. Whether you’re trying to find love virtually right now and you’re not getting enough of it, or you’re quarantine with your loved one, and maybe you’re getting too much of it. We are all struggling right now, as always, but especially in this crazy COVID world. intimacy and sex are a part of healthy relationships. But we’re not always clear on how to build and maintain intimacy in a healthy way.

 

Unknown Speaker  0:51  

So today,

 

Damona  0:52  

we are once and for all going to get clear on the intimacy timeline with one of the top experts in this field. Dr. Emily Morse of the sex with Emily podcast. I’ve listened to her show for years and now I’m delighted to welcome her finally to dates and mates. But before you get all hot and bothered, we have headlines including will dating be forever changed by COVID-19? And could jayda and Will’s relationship be in trouble plus the safest places to get your free guide on during the pandemic shutdown? And then in technically dating Emily and I will answer your questions like what to do if you and your partner have different sexual needs and how to deal with insecurities in the bedroom. All that and more on today’s very hot dates and maids This one is definitely not one to listen to in the room with the kiddos. Explicit warning, I’m saying it now it’s going to be hot but you’re going to want to hear everything that Emily and I talked about. You ready For the dates in mates,

 

Unknown Speaker  2:02  

let’s dish these dating dish.

 

Damona  2:07  

According to time dating will be permanently changed by COVID-19. A lot of people have been asking my opinion on this from NPR, you may have heard me do a couple of segments in the last few weeks. You may have read in my new column in the LA Times about this. There are a lot of people speculating about what this will mean for intimacy. So let me just take a snapshot of where I think we are right now. And I can make a guess about where I think it will go. And I’ll also tell you what some of the other experts that time interviewed said, and you can make your own determination about what you think will happen when quarantine opens up and people are able to return to some sense of normalcy. So now we’re in this place where just speaking of dating specifically, people are unable to meet face to face. So I’m hearing a couple of different things I’m hearing there are a lot of people that are really excited by the ability to make new connections without all that pressure. So many of my listeners have been timid about online dating. Well, you know, I’ve always been very bullish about it. But part of the reason is that, that awkwardness of moving offline and into the real world so it’s allowed a lot of new people to step into the space and play in the dating space and the chat space in the flirtation space and see if this could be a good avenue for them to date. So I think dating apps will continue to be on the rise. They’ve already all said that they are having a huge increase in new users and new chats, but we don’t we don’t know what that will look like when there are other avenues available for dating but I do believe it will consistently be up. Now people are having to do virtual dates, and be really clever with quarantine dates and what I love about This is that it’s causing people to be a little more mindful to slow down and also to be more creative and really get to know one another people have been obsessed we talked about love is blind on the show a few weeks ago, people have been obsessed with this idea of finding love without the confusion, I guess of what someone looks like and, and the visual seeing them face to face. But we all know like not every couple made it on love is blind. I’m not saying any spoilers or anything, but not every couple makes it. And so there’s this almost fantasy playing out where people are thinking that this is going to be the answer to unlock all of these problems in dating, that dating timelines are going to slow which you’ve heard me say on the show before and that people are going to become more mindful of who they’re having sex with the thought we talked about the other Netflix show too hot to handle recently. As well, what I think is really going to happen is that it’s, it’s we’re going to return to how it was before but we are going to have new filters in place. Like being able to do that video chat and having it not be weird. I that’s the biggest thing that I think will come away from COVID-19. With as far as dating is concerned, a lot of things that we once thought were weird, are no longer going to be weird video chat dating is not going to be weird. calling someone on the phone who you’ve never met is no longer going to be weird. It’s going to be normal again, like it once was. So I think this is a really great time, but we’re going to go through a little bit of an ebb and flow. They interviewed one of my favorite experts for this time magazine article, Helen Fisher, and she is a she’s a social scientist. She works at the Kinsey Institute. She’s studied the brain on love, and she says that thirst and hunger are not going to do And therefore, neither are the feelings of love and attachment that allow you to pass your DNA on to the next generation. So that’s what we have to remember. Like, I can get all intellectual about dating and dating plans and processes. But when it comes down to it, that drive for procreation and that drive for connection is the strongest thing in the world. That is, that is what drives everything, because we are wired to keep the human race going. And that is not going away just because of COVID-19. So there’s a lot of talk of people abstaining from sex, there was this government. I think it was a New York City slogan about you are your own safest sex partner right now, which is true and which has always been true, but people aren’t just going to forget about having sex or having connection because we had COVID-19. I think what we’re going to see if I can predict for a moment is that once the restrictions are lifted, There are going to be a couple of weird moments, like a first dance at prom, where people are like, I don’t want to be the first one to get out there and hit the dance floor like I don’t want to look weird or be the first one to make a fool of myself. So people are a little shy to enter the dance floor. And then a couple of brave people jump in, and everybody’s like, oh, there, you look cool, that looks fine. I want to do that too. And then everybody is on the dance floor, and then all of a sudden, the dance floor is gonna get really crowded. And people are going to realize that there is a risk right now in dating and making connections with people in holding hands kissing, touching other things that we’ll talk about later in the show. And I think there’s going to be a little bit of a balancing and a retraction where people are going to slow down again, and that’s where I hope we will land in this sweet spot of love and relationships. So check out this article. I’ll put it in the show notes. There was also a mention of really interesting experiment that they’re doing at you Pan. That’s sort of a love Love is blind inspired experiment where they’re trying to help people fall in love over email. During quarantine. I can’t wait to see what the results of that study are. I’m sure we will cover it on dates and mates but it is making me believe in love again. You know one couple that is love goals for life. Everybody has known of the romance between Jada Pinkett Smith and Will Smith. And we all look to them. We see red Table Talk and we see them out together and we’re like, they’re the perfect couple. They’ve got it all. They’ve got it all. But on read Table Talk recently jayda revealed that being in quarantine has made her realize that she and will don’t really know each other anymore. They’ve grown apart to some extent and they’ve been together over 20 years. And there is this lull in the relationship where you start to almost take your partner for granted and then you look at them and you think oh How could you take your partner for granted? This is Will Smith or how could you take jayda Pinkett Smith they’re both so amazing in their own right. But I love in the show how real jayda makes the issues that she’s going through and how grounded they are to make you realize that even though we idealize their relationship, and she is saying she was even idealizing, who her partner was, we can learn so much by hearing her honest take on what’s going on. And she’s saying that in this time, it’s also an opportunity. If you’re in a relationship right now, it’s an opportunity to get to know your partner again, on a deeper level. I’ve been doing like 20 questions and playing all these fun games with my husband, and really getting to see a different side of him. I don’t feel like it’s quite at the level of what Jayla said like I don’t know him at all. But I do feel like I have learned things that maybe if we hadn’t had that time to really slow down and really bond together that I may not have taken the time to stop and ask some of these questions that I’ve had answered. So this is a great reminder for us to not be complacent in marriage or in relationships and to always try to find that spark and that ability to be curious. You know, I’m always talking about that with dating, right. Be curious about your partner. And I think that is the silver lining on all of this, not just for jayda and will but for us as well.

 

Turns out, a lot of people may not be satisfied in their relationships right now because according to adult friend finder, they are seeing a big surge in new users. And this is a casual dating and camping site. So actually all of the so called cheating sites are seeing a big surge and That’s a lot of people trying to escape the reality like it’s intense in there. It’s intense when you are 24 seven with somebody that you, you maybe you really have strong feelings for them or maybe you have been growing apart for a while. And this intensity is just the thing to drive the wedge between you and where you’re seeking, seeking fulfillment from other sources. But here’s the thing on Adult friend finder, they also are helping people move into like virtual sec situations. And they had to launch a new platform called Virgie. I didn’t make it that name, y’all. It’s a platform that provides a safe environment for people looking to explore orgies during COVID-19. So some of these people may be in relationships. Some may be single, but a lot of these common video chat sites that We use like zoom, did you know this, like you cannot have relations on zoom, and not that they’re peeking in on everybody’s video chats, but there is an element of them monitoring what’s happening. And so these virtual sex parties could no longer happen on zoom, and they had to find another avenue for allowing the people that come to their site to be able to do the things that they want to do. So this is just to remind you that there’s something out there for everyone and whatever your need is right now, whether it’s an emotional or an intimate need or simply a sexual need. There’s no shame in the game y’all. You can find what you’re looking for. Online. The Google machine has made anything that you want possible and animation to you at the click of a button. So I encourage you to go out there and find what you’re looking for speaking of finding what you’re looking for getting your needs met, and let’s face it speaking of sex, we have a very hot guest for you today. As I mentioned at the top of the show, one of my inspirations Dr. Emily Morse will be joining me in just a moment, she’s going to tell us everything we need to know about building intimacy from first time sex and consent, all the way to reigniting the passion in a long term relationship. So if you’ve ever asked after what date Should I sleep with him? Does this sex mean the same thing to her as it means to me? am I even doing this right? Then this is the episode for you don’t go anywhere. Dr. Emily Morris is coming up in just

 

Unknown Speaker  13:49  

a moment.

 

Unknown Speaker  13:57  

We are back and I am here

 

Damona  13:59  

with the One and only Dr. Emily Morris. She has a PhD of human sexuality and she is the powerhouse behind one of my favorite podcasts sex with Emily. Please, please, please put your lips together give big smooches to Dr. Emily Morris. Hello.

 

Unknown Speaker  14:19  

Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here.

 

Damona  14:22  

I am so glad to have you here. People have questions and like, I can only take them so far. But you can take them all the way. Emily, wave ready to go. And I will just talk first about your mission with sex with Emily. You talk about make wanting to make sex. Easy to talk about and yeah, so it’s so listable and like topics that a lot of people are sort of

 

Unknown Speaker  14:45  

sensitive about

 

Damona  14:47  

you make it just you just bring down the walls and make it so simple.

 

Unknown Speaker  14:51  

Exactly. I mean, that’s my main mission is because most of us are not comfortable talking about sex because we don’t have any great models for it. Our parents weren’t Talking about it most likely our friends weren’t talking about it. We have a lot of shame around it. We think love is good girls don’t talk about sex and and you know, then what is it? What What message Am I sending if I talk about sex, so there’s just, there’s just a way that I want people to feel more, you know,

 

Damona  15:18  

take away the shame and the and the stigma around it and just make it comfortable. Because really, when we’re sexually healthy, we’re healthy overall, it contributes to a healthy lifestyle overall. So I just try to get people to understand that that’s, it’s something that we need to do to have an overall healthy life get comfortable talking about sex, and then that actually improves our sex life. Absolutely. And so many of our listeners realize that it’s an important part of a relationship and many of them are single right now and wishing for that right relationship. So I want to talk a little bit about building intimacy through the different phases. Let’s begin at the beginning with the people that are just starting like let’s say COVID aside, quarantine aside, they are just beginning new relationships and beginning to be intimate one.

 

Unknown Speaker  16:04  

So this there are actually like for some say it’s five, there’s about four stages of intimacy that we talked about in relationships. And the first one is the infatuation phase. This is the honeymoon phase, the phase that we all crave. And we want to we always, are always trying to get back to this phase. And this is when we first meet someone and we just think, Wow, this person is so perfect for me. everything lines up. It’s like, like, we’re so alike. It’s sort of the infatuation stage and the kind of the diffusion stage. And it’s sort of like and there’s also a powerful like, neurochemical thing going on in our brains where we feel like a kind of altered state of consciousness going on. And it’s sort of like they look at the brainwave patterns of, of people like falling in love, and they’re like, God, it looks like either they’re in love or they do some kind of drugs because it’s very similar, right? It’s a very similar pairing, and there’s a good feeling of euphoria and connection. So that’s like the first stage that we just were like, wow, we are so fused. Everything is just this person is my everything.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:07  

Yeah.

 

Damona  17:08  

So then we move past that because I’ve had like, they’re my listeners are tired of me saying this so much, but there’s no such thing as love at first sight. Like there’s lust at first sight.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:18  

I say that too. I’m like you not love it is lost and that is totally fine. Lust happens, but you are not in love.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:27  

Okay, so how, how can we move on to love what’s the next stage they might Okay,

 

Unknown Speaker  17:32  

the next stage is the conflict and the power struggle.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:36  

This is when you have your first fight.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:39  

This is when you think, oh, like how do I differentiate myself from my partner? Like, maybe we’re not so much alike. You know, we struggle to exert like our individuality in a relationship. And there’s like conflict and you’re like, how can there be conflict in paradise? I didn’t realize, but that is the second stage. And that’s kind of where You know, people kind of last through this stage because some do. But the third stage, if you want me to skip to that that’s adjustment we call the adjustment and consolidation. And that’s where couples end up. This is where couples end the relationship. This is where divorce happens. This is where drugs addictions happen, people start drinking more. And a lot of people don’t get through these stages, it becomes a lot uglier. In this stage. We think Oh, wow. Like I remember the first stage. We’re like, Oh, my God, we are so perfect together. Everything’s amazing. And this is the stage where we’re like, there’s nothing we are nothing alike. And what am I going to do with each other?

 

Damona  18:34  

I’m sure a lot of people are feeling that right now.

 

Unknown Speaker  18:36  

Exactly, exactly. If this is the stage, we crave to get back to stage one. But I think a lot of people are in this stage right now. They might never have seen themselves going into this stage but because maybe we’re quarantined with somebody, and there’s so much strife and there’s we don’t have the conflict resolution skills to get us past the stages is is really where people are, are stuck right? And so I urge people to, you know, to kind of take a beat and realize that we’ve never been in this place before. And there’s like a, there’s an anxiety level that’s like in the ether in the universe right now we’re sort of all experiencing it from every angle, at work and at home and just the consciousness of everyone is sort of a heightened state of unknown anxiety, confusion. And then you put on top of that the person that has to be your most comfort in your joy. Now they’re giving you some strife, it feels like so I just, I mean, I recommend people reaching out and using their resources. I’m a huge fan of therapy. And I think that right now, there’s a lot of therapists I’d say the majority of them are offering online therapy and online coaching right now. And just know that it’s okay. You don’t have to solve it on your own because it’s this kind of language and dialogue that you have with your partner that’s gotten you here. So you’re going to need someone else you’re going to need some more tools from the outside to help you and it’s totally okay. Just like we hire a coach for work, a business coach, a trainer to get in shape a nutritionist, you might need one for your relationship right now. Absolutely. I totally believe in that if you’re single, like, same thing, we agree on the right therapy right now. Right?

 

Damona  20:14  

Right. So what’s on the other side of that Emily? solve the conflicts. Right.

 

Unknown Speaker  20:18  

Okay. So, um, the conflict, right? And, and when you get to this is the stage where this is the maturation stage where you mature, you have learned to differentiate, and this is true intimacy, like you’ve worked through your deepest wounds, you have really figured out, you know, who you are, you’ve gone to the dark places of intimacy as you shared it with your partner. And this is the stage where you say, Wow, we are nothing alike. And that’s beautiful. We are nothing alike. And that’s why we work because we support each other. We come together with these beautiful skills. And we’ve, we’ve, we’ve matured together, we’ve grown it and again, this doesn’t mean that you’ve been together 25 years. This could happen quickly. I mean, this can happen over a year this year. You know, it typically won’t happen in less than a year. But it depends how much work you’ve done individually coming together as well. The comments have you grown? How much have you looked at your past? wounds your childhood, your past relationships? have you dealt with abuse and trauma and anger? And, you know, there’s always work to do, but how much and how much are you both willing to work? Like, sometimes there’s one person who, who’s so into growth mindset and growing together and there’s someone’s like, no, we’re fine. I everything I’ve done is fine. I need to work and grow. I’m really good here. And that’s, that’s tough. Yeah,

 

Unknown Speaker  21:34  

one person wants to grow and another person does not.

 

Damona  21:37  

Yeah, absolutely. You both have to be on the same page. And it’s also I would, I would add into the mix, you have to also be able to trust one another. And that’s, and I know that’s an element of all the work that you do, like if you are going to be intimate with someone whether it’s emotionally intimate or sexually intimate. There’s a level of trust you have to build when you say

 

Unknown Speaker  21:57  

absolutely, I mean, that’s the other thing is that you’ve built trust. See, I just kind of ran through those like quickly, but it’s like you. Yes, I mean trust is. Trust is something that you when you have it you have in your relationship and you don’t really think about it because it’s there. But once trust is broken in a relationship, it can be really difficult to heal, especially on your own. And the couples who like I hear from couples all the time, who say or it’s one person who says, well, but partner cheated on me and it’s been rough ever since. But I should be over it already. Or then the or the person who did the cheating says to me, why isn’t my partner over? And it’s like, well, what work have you done? Just saying I’m sorry, doesn’t gonna do it, or just because years or has passed, those wounds are still there. So you have to sort of rebuild, but you have to do that together. And again, I believe that can best be done in therapy. And it’s very hard to rebuild trust on your own. But yeah, trust is huge. That’s a big part of intimacy is couples like, like having trust, having integrity in the relationship. You know, broke broke through. It’s messy. They broken things down. They’ve rebuilt them. And they’ve they’ve stayed together and, and only like they say like only 5% of couples get to that that last stage of intimacy that really get there and really do it. Yeah. I mean,

 

Unknown Speaker  23:11  

I’m hoping I’m their girl.

 

Damona  23:14  

Living the dream, living the dream, but like, I want to go back for the listeners that are still single. When you’re building trust with someone new, that’s really, really hard. And a lot of times I get the question about when to be intimate with someone when to have sex. And then how do you even talk like, should you talk about it before you have sex? What’s the a DA, being? Sexy?

 

Unknown Speaker  23:40  

It’s a great question. I mean, I do believe that. That in order for us to be in a sexually healthy relationship with to be if we’re going to be having sex with someone, we have to be comfortable talking about it. The problem is where we’re at today in 2020s, that most people no matter what their age are, their their their backgrounds, their everything. They will not come through with it. We don’t have models. We don’t have people have done it. But I do believe and I do know this, the couples who are the healthiest and have the best sex lives are able to talk about it. And so I think before you talk about your before you have sex somewhat with someone how great to just say like, how important is sex to you in the relationship? You know, what kind of things are you into? I actually you could say I, it’s something that I’ve been on a journey to figuring out or getting comfortable talking about sex. I don’t have a lot of experience with talking about sex, but I know that it’s important. So would you be willing to be a partner that could talk about it with me, we could talk about what we like and what we’re into and what we don’t like or if we’ve never done this a we can figure it out together. But I know that sex is a really important part of a relationship. And I think, yeah, I mean, I think the sooner we talk about it, the better especially after you start having sex with someone. I don’t believe in this. Let’s wait a few months while it’s still really great. Cuz that’s when you should talk about it. Maybe just talk about how great it is or the things that you really liked about it. But it’s fun. Because we’re in relationships, and we’ll talk about like, we go to a movie, and we’ll talk about how much we liked the movie will have gone to dinner and we’ll say like, wasn’t a delicious meal. Well, yeah. didn’t love the appetizers. But I really enjoyed the, the main course. Well, we I don’t know if I’d go back there again. But sex we just like, we have the sex, and then it’s over. And then we don’t ever talk about it. And then no one knows

 

Unknown Speaker  25:20  

how it went.

 

Unknown Speaker  25:23  

Down.

 

Unknown Speaker  25:25  

Like, were we in a different, like, read a different thing here. We read different movies where we had a different,

 

Damona  25:30  

but a lot of times people are in different movies when they’re there.

 

Unknown Speaker  25:33  

They

 

Unknown Speaker  25:35  

thought that’s great. And the other is like, this is terrible. I don’t want to do this again. We’re sex in

 

Unknown Speaker  25:39  

my life. Exactly. So how great to be able to talk about it and a lot of my show. It’s funny. People hear the name sex with me. They think Oh, God, I don’t know if I’m ready for that. And I have to tell you that most of what I talk about is getting people comfortable communicating about it. I always say communication is a lubrication. And the more that we talk about taxi, we get comfortable with sex the much better stuff We’re going to have but it’s just getting to that place of, of breaking down the walls together and saying, like, I know this is awkward, but I really think it’s I know that it’s going to help us. So yeah, kind of talking about what your greatest memories are together, like, give her if it’s new thing, like, let’s talk about what did you like about last night and you don’t have to get into what you didn’t like yet because I have a whole process for that. But maybe to start off by complimenting your parents, and God, I really enjoyed the way you kissed my neck. When you kissed my neck, I felt these things run through my body that I haven’t felt in forever. And just affirming. So they know because maybe there was other things that you didn’t like, the let’s lead with the positive. I think we all like to hear the things that you do well, so that’s kind of like for early stage of relationships. I’ve other practices for the stuff we don’t like but I think just really enforcing reinforcing things that went well is harmful.

 

Damona  26:52  

I want to get into how you talk about this stuff if you don’t like and you have some questions actually in the next segment about that.

 

Unknown Speaker  26:57  

But consent comes up A lot

 

Damona  27:00  

for my listeners that are dating and just beginning to have sex. You know, Emily, I’m just going to ask you, I had a conversation off air with another with a male dating coach. I know. And we were talking about consent, and he was talking about like sexy ways that guys can ask for consent. And then he said, I don’t believe in asking for consent for a kiss. And I was like, Well, now we’re like, separating the process of intimacy. I want to get your take on that.

 

Unknown Speaker  27:30  

Well, I believe that there’s a really I think that in this day and age, there’s that Yeah, ask for consent for case i think i think there’s ways that you could do it. That’s really consensual. That’s really like, consensually, it’s positive. Again, consensual comes off as consensual, not offensive and kind of sexy. So you could just say I

 

Unknown Speaker  27:52  

What about just like, I’d really like to kiss you right now. Yeah, I can’t stop thinking about kissing you. Would you Be open i mean i’m really thinking about I can’t stop thinking about kissing you Would that be okay? How would you feel about that? And like looking at someone in their eyes and saying like,

 

Unknown Speaker  28:10  

like that’s the way it’s not like

 

Unknown Speaker  28:11  

I would you mind if I kissed you right now like it’s all it’s all energy yeah I think saying like you know I would really like to kiss you right now how how does that feel to you it’s just a really honest Looking in their eyes you feel seen and maybe you don’t want to but I’ve had guys say that to me. And even though it was really sweet I’m like, oh God, thank you for letting me know that. I’m not feeling that right now but I so I let’s keep talking I’ll let you know if I if that if my position on that changes. You know,

 

Unknown Speaker  28:42  

I’m glad that you can be so honest about that moment. I think a lot of women feel bad saying no to a case or even saying no to sex.

 

Unknown Speaker  28:54  

You’re such a good point here. Yeah,

 

Damona  28:56  

I hate that. We we don’t even you know, we we’re kind of Meaning that we are supposed to be polite, like, how can we get that kind of

 

Unknown Speaker  29:04  

confidence? Right to Mona like, this is the thing is that people is that. So I’ve talked about this a lot on my show. My show as well is that so many women we just have like we just say yes, because it’s so much easier than saying no, like I always I did a speech once. I was like, how many of you have just had sex? Because it was easier than saying now like, how many of you like given that blow job because you’re like,

 

Unknown Speaker  29:27  

raising my hand.

 

Unknown Speaker  29:29  

Same thing, and it’s like, why is it so hard? And I think it’s because we don’t we’re pleasers. We don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. We don’t want to come off as prude. We don’t want to come off as we don’t want to deal with conflict. And so it’s like, and I love that we’re having this conversation because I think it’s like first off for some women. They’re like, Oh, I can say no, like literally they don’t know they can say no. Well, the person already came to my room. I’ve already invited him to my home or we’re already on a date and they bought me a nice dinner and donate. Oh, oh them. You don’t know what else You don’t owe anybody anything but your real truth and your real honesty said in the most, in the kindest way possible in the most like, me doesn’t have to be kind of someone’s being aggressive. But I would, I would, I’ve learned that there’s nuances that to it, and I think of how to say no. And so. So usually what’s happened perhaps, historically, is that and this is sort of a somatic practice. As a medic therapy practice, I’m a trained somatic sex therapist as well. And what I mean by somatic is, is it being in your body, so embodied and really paying attention to when someone comes towards you, or someone’s touching you? How does it make you feel? And so what happens is so So an example would be, let’s say, someone and we probably had this experience where perhaps they just escalated a little bit too quickly. Like maybe the kiss happened. Like, I’ll give you the example of the kiss I just use so maybe someone tried to kiss me. I just I’ve had guys say, like, should we just kiss right now and get over it? And I’m like, no. No, not right now. But just because I say no doesn’t mean that maybe we truly could revisit this later. Or maybe Okay, so no better example that’s maybe more relatable to people is say you start making out with someone, and it’s getting hot and heavy, and then they start to put their hand on your pants. And it’s not like you wouldn’t want that. Eventually, maybe in an hour, maybe next time I see you, maybe in a month from now. But sometimes the whole it shuts out. We just wanted to what we really wanted that moment was just keep making out. We loved making out with this person. And so so so my experience be getting in touch and feeling like, Oh, I felt me get tense right now I’m not ready for that. And then being able to have the word say, put your hand on their, you know, on their hand and say, I’m not feeling that right now. But I’m really enjoying making out with you. So let’s keep doing that. Or I need to take a beat for a moment. Can we just pause on that for a second? I’m so loved loving getting to know you right now. So that signals to them I’m not saying gay. Go home, get in your car leave my house. I’m saying this is escalating beyond where I want it to go right now. And I’m sort of enjoying the arousal process of getting to know you the kissing. And I think we will often either just think we got to shut it down or we got to keep going. And we don’t realize that there’s a nuance to the process of arousal because most men if we’re talking about heterosexual relationships, for example, men escalate quicker than women. Men get aroused and turned on they have more of a responsive desire they respond to things happening in the moment or women or women are more responsive like we need things to build where men are spontaneous, they get aroused a lot quicker. Women are slow cookers and men are frying pan. So literally in that same moment of making out there ready to go to third base to us little tournament. We’re like no, I love getting to know your lips. So sad. Yeah,

 

Unknown Speaker  32:53  

yeah. And I love how you keep

 

Damona  32:54  

reiterating what it is that you like and even when you are giving a credit direction or a reset of the energy. It’s still with a reminder that you like where you are what

 

Unknown Speaker  33:08  

if you just

 

Unknown Speaker  33:10  

don’t you’re not feeling it at all and you need to send a very Okay,

 

Unknown Speaker  33:13  

great distinction so I think if you’re not feeling it you just stop and you say and this happened to me very recently.

 

Unknown Speaker  33:20  

Tell us about it.

 

Unknown Speaker  33:21  

Oh god you guys I’m telling you this is this work is not it’s not like I’m a pro at it I just in the moment sometimes it’s still always a little bit uncomfortable because you feel bad and all those things come up. I’m just telling you ways to do it that are you know, that are a little more that feel good to everybody involved. So I had to say I we were going to make no for round and I thought I’m not feeling this guy anymore. It’s just it. I had already had some hesitations. And I just stopped and I looked him I said, you know, what, can we slow down for a second? And I said, I I gotta tell you, I so love spending time with you. But but but in this moment, right now, I’m feeling like we got to just kind of take a pause. And can we just get up and just kind of go back to my living room. Just kind of chat and then we move down he was it okay. Okay, I said Listen, I’ve just so I have a lot of things happening in my life right now. And this is all true. And I just said I I’m not feeling like I’m in a place to be really physical with you right now but I’ve so enjoyed our time and let’s just do need a glass of water and let’s talk and I was just, I was working through in the moment as well because I’ve learned that if I am not fully on board and my whole body’s out of hell, yes, I can it’s a violation to who I am as a woman as myself. I can’t keep going so I had to say it but I’m saying can be clunky and I feel bad but then I’m he got it though it is it okay. Like I understand you. Let’s talk. I wasn’t saying get the hell out. I wasn’t I was like, let me explain my process. So

 

Unknown Speaker  34:41  

yeah, the other thing that you did

 

Damona  34:42  

that’s really great is you really stayed in the moment like I’m always telling my listeners not to get ahead of themselves, like you weren’t, like, This guy has to get out right now because I don’t know where this is going. You just are like right now this doesn’t feel right to me. And so I’m just going to react to this moment. Exactly, yeah. And that’s a lot of pressure off yourself, right? Because when you’re when you start thinking about, like, what happened before what happened after I mean, that’s another thing like people that have had sex before that realize they don’t want to have sex with someone again, it’s kind of like you were saying earlier, there’s this feeling like, well, if we’ve already had sex, we might as well just have sex again. Now, right, you always have a chance to choose right?

 

Unknown Speaker  35:21  

Every you have a chance to choose in every moment and with every relationship and with every encounter, to be to, to to change your mind. And when we’re present. So what we’re talking about is when we go into an experience like that, where we’re like, I gotta get out, we go into fight or flight. And we go into the future in the past. We don’t make great decisions for ourselves. So to say, we’ll say like, go back to right now in this moment, I am not feeling it. We have totally we have agency over that and you don’t owe anybody anything. You don’t owe anybody another kiss, another sex another date, like really don’t and I think that is women. This is just like we’re breaking, you know, so many years of this stigma and this feeling that women just have to and we owe it to men, and we just don’t We don’t, and we could take care of ourselves and it’s our bodies, our choices, and all those things are really real. And I think the more that we do that in every situation, we’re going to be just so much, so much better set up for our relationship that we can teach our daughters or nieces or the women in our life. How to do that as well.

 

Unknown Speaker  36:17  

Yeah, paradigm. It is. Thank you for reiterating that. Okay, I want to go back, you said that you had some tips in case you you need to give someone some

 

Unknown Speaker  36:32  

constructive criticism. Yes. How do we do that?

 

Unknown Speaker  36:36  

Okay, I love the compliment sandwich. So, do you want to give me an example of something you might want to correct? It can be from your life damona or anywhere else? Like what would be something that you might want to give feedback or that you’ve heard from your listeners? Oh, I don’t like the way.

 

Damona  36:50  

Is there anything? Actually I did get a DM when I was asking for questions about a woman who said she has trouble climaxing during oral sex

 

Unknown Speaker  37:01  

with boyfriend. All right. So that is such a common a common thing. So I, so well that’s, that’s interesting because so what she might be saying is,

 

Unknown Speaker  37:12  

Okay, here we go. So she’d say babe, sweetie, okay, here’s my first step

 

Unknown Speaker  37:17  

outside the bedroom. Number one, you do not have the conversations about what you’d like to change, or giving feedback to your partner in the bedroom after a sex act. Because we’re in a heightened state of arousal. Maybe we’ve just we’re connected where I like the bedrooms. I like that for sleeping and for sex. But when we’re gonna have a conversation about our sex life, do it when you are in an environment where you’re kind of chilling, you keep it light, maybe you’ve just had a drink, you’re at dinner, you’re going for a walk. I love walking and having conversations on a road trip because these conversations can be so awkward and uncomfortable at first. You don’t have to make eye contact if you’re driving your car like okay, babe, I think we should talk about our sex like that. That concept

 

Unknown Speaker  38:01  

is the environment for any conflict IV.

 

Unknown Speaker  38:04  

any conflict, get in the car time to walk the dog with you again. So then so then you say okay, so I realized that I want to talk to you about I’ve been thinking about our sex life. This is the compliment sandwich. And, and you start with something you love. I think that it’s been lately the way you’ve been. The way it’s been a lot slower lately. And I love the way you’ve been like making out and that thing you did with your tongue and my on my neck or my ear felt so good. Like, I feel like we’ve really been, you know, connecting lately in that way. And I realized that when you go down on me it is so it’s like my favorite thing. It’s so hot. I get really aroused. And lately I haven’t been able to orgasm. I was thinking that perhaps if we took a little bit more time with it, and I could have a few more. You know, sometimes I feel guilty because I feel like I’m taking too much time. And I feel like if we He just kind of settle in, I knew that you were kind of into it as well that I would definitely have the most explosive orgasms, and then the last piece of the bread would be, and I know that when I’m really turned on and having orgasms, it just makes me want to have sex every day. He

 

Unknown Speaker  39:15  

want and that’s what he wants. He never wants

 

Unknown Speaker  39:18  

  1. So I mean, that was a lot. You know, that was. That was I was also answering the A common question that women have about why can I orgasm during oral sex? And typically, it’s because women are, well, we can sum up the compliment sandwich first and I’ll get into oral like, but typically you want to be very positive. You want to stay curious. You don’t want to be accusatory or blame I’ve told you so many times to go down. I mean more, why doesn’t this happen? Because the second you do that they’re just out the door. So really, it’s just here’s what I love. Here’s why this would be great in a suggestion and then ending with like, the reason why it’s great for both of you is my best tip.

 

Damona  39:53  

I love that. I love the compliment sandwich. I have so many questions Emily. I would love to just keep on talking You feel like questions, but so many people have submitted their questions. So I’m gonna roll on into our next segment. Do you have questions and Emily and I have answers. So now it’s time for your favorite segment. And I just want to remind everybody, these are going to be a little bit more R rated than usual. But Emily, I’m sure these are no biggie for you. You got it? Yeah, no questions like this all the time. Our first one comes to us from Katie from Canada. She says, My husband needs a few days between sex sessions, or he can’t get hard. Is this normal? And just to give you a little bit more background, because I followed up with her She said she’s 31 He’s 37. She’s never noticed the refractory time before, but since the quarantine she’s noticed that if she tries to initiate again that day or days following it doesn’t lead anywhere or he’s not able to and that feels like a long time.

 

Unknown Speaker  41:00  

Okay, got it? That’s that’s a great question. And I love that she gave me his age because when people email me their questions, it’s really important to people’s age and to know where they’re at So, so, if you’re 37 if he’s 37 so here’s what I think the refractory time for men meaning the time it takes for them to be able to have sex again after they ejaculate. You know, when you’re younger men can kind of keep going. And when they get a little bit older, it can be challenging, but 37 is still young, typically, men start to see challenges around erections. And around in their 40s is when there’s a drop in testosterone. And so what I would think what my first hit from this is that what the first thing is, it could be medical, it could be testosterone drop, it could be if he’s taking any medications, the first thing to look at is as you change anything at all, is he drinking more? Is he on a medication, there’s a lot of medications that actually impact our ability to get to have an erection to have an orgasm. So that’s what we got to look at a lot anything medical, and then we take away all of that. Listen We are in a time of tremendous stress and anxiety, which already before quarantine is the number one killer of our sex drive. When we are stressed, and we are anxious, especially men, I find this in men more than women, when men are concerned about money, their job, something happening, their ability to be in the masculine and take care of the family like that really has an impact on their desire. And so I don’t know that you should be concerned. But I think that maybe I would tell Katie to go a little bit deeper. And just like how I said, to have the conversation about sex in a neutral environment, the same thing goes for this kind of thing. Just say, I’ve been thinking about you. And I know you said it’s gonna take a few days is it you know, tell me about how you feel? Is there anything we could do? You’re doing in a way to help that like, I can’t believe it, you’re not getting turned on because a lot of times what women we do is we think oh, he’s not attracted to me anymore. Something’s wrong with me. Or, you know, and just being like, supportive and saying like, well, let’s take a look at it. Let’s take a look at like your medication, or do you think it could be something stressful Something I could do to help you more like relax right now because a couple days is a long time, like in the sense of like, I’m sure he could still get turned on but I feel like there he might just have other things on his mind right now is what is what I’m thinking. Yeah,

 

Damona  43:14  

I’ve been hearing that couples in quarantine together are actually having more sex right now. So I wonder also if she’s been like, does this

 

Unknown Speaker  43:23  

I don’t know that you’re hearing everything Okay, so I’m hearing that there’s some couples who are like, Oh my god, it’s so great. We’re both home now. I’m not traveling as much for work and we’re just having this time that we’ve always craved. other couples are like, I’m going to there’s nothing sexy about living in this one bedroom apartment and I’ll be doing and staring each other and that is not hot. Because something about you becoming one of candles eroticism when you don’t have the surprise and the mystery in the spotlight at all that is just washed away with this quarantine. So I actually, I don’t want to put any more pressure on everyone. Like I think it’s different across the board. But but maybe Yeah, maybe Katie’s feeling like she wants it more because maybe he’s been away a lot now. Homework. And maybe he’s trying to figure out how to work at home. And how do I make sense of this all. And he’s just really stressed and is more distracted right now. And so maybe creating a space for them and their relationship where they can separate from work and creating a time where they’re scheduling sex, which is one of my best tips for couples always and right now to say, I know that we’re having sex these three days this week, so you’re not one of you isn’t feeling like you’re always rejecting their partner, or someone wants it more than the other. But when you can plan it, and you know, like sex is happening eight o’clock on Saturday, you can kind of start to look forward to it. You can get ready, you can shower, you can shave what you can like, talk about the things you want to do. And then that becomes your activity that you’re both going to share and it works better for for both usually.

 

Damona  44:43  

Yeah, and what else do we have to do right now? Exactly right. I’m all about the date night so I had to make a date night appointment with my husband like after the kids go to bed. Saturday night, your mind. Now he knows this. He knows what’s coming. Okay. We talked about women and oral sex but from the other side This question comes to us from Ashley on Instagram. She says, My boyfriend can’t climax from a blow job trying to deal with my ego thinking it’s just me any tips?

 

Unknown Speaker  45:17  

Great question, Ashley. I hear this all the time. First off, it is not you I wish I could just talk to the collective conscious of women and be like most of the things that are happening with your boyfriend’s your partner’s penis has nothing to do with you. It’s very common that men cannot orgasm from blowjob and and so it could be a lot of reasons it could be the way he masturbates. It could be the way he’s holding his penis. It could be because he’s watching a lot of porn. And it is harder for him to masturbate with with a mouse there is. Now also I want to say yeah, maybe there’s something else that he wants sexually. And you’re allowed to say to him God, I really love performing oral on you. I’d love to know your best tips of how I can make it the best blow job ever. But I wouldn’t ask him in the moment, I would say I’m going to or I would say I want to start asking your next time when you show me what you love because I want to be your best ever. You could do that as well, Ashley but there are I’m hearing this more and more lately that there’s just a lot of men who just aren’t orgasming from blowjobs and I just I’ve always heard it but something lately and I have a hunch it has to do with porn. Because I believe that men are watching so much that’s a whole nother show. We could do more and watching But yeah, I do believe that I’m not like anti porn by any means I get that it serves its purpose. But when we have one way of holding ourselves and one way of generating pleasing ourselves, it can be challenging to bring anyone else into the mix even if she’s like a you know, expert porn star, whatever like doesn’t for a living, it can still be challenging. So best take your ego out of it and just get some healthy communication with your partner.

 

Unknown Speaker  46:53  

That’s great advice, Emily.

 

Damona  46:55  

Okay, this one is another Instagram question from Shannon. She says, what does it mean when your new boyfriend goes limp when you get on top of them? He says he’s had this problem in his last relationships, too. He can function in other positions, but he climaxes quickly.

 

Unknown Speaker  47:15  

Okay, Shannon, this is a great question too. It’s like, I wish we knew her age, but I’m telling you, it sounds like she might be a little bit. I don’t know, younger. I don’t know why I have this sense. But I feel that men have penis challenges, trust him that he has that trust that it’s happened in his past relationship.

 

Unknown Speaker  47:33  

And

 

Unknown Speaker  47:36  

when you get on top of him,

 

Unknown Speaker  47:40  

I mean, okay, so most of the challenges that men face with their penis have to do with anxiety and has to do with things that have happened in a situation that’s happened in the past. And all men want to do is perform. They want to be great lovers. They want to stay at heart and they want to keep going. But sometimes if things have happened in the past, it even only takes one time. We’re like, Oh, no, I’m going to get soft and this isn’t, you know, this, this, this keeps happening over and over again. And then they are they’re reinforcing it and their behavior. It’s a what it means is I think again, you have to kind of understand what kind of like what positions, he functions in other positions, but he climaxes quickly does he climax. So what I’m hearing then is that in every position, he climax quickly, but then when you get on top, he gets soft. So it’s just it’s almost like you’re having, these are challenges that you’re having. And

 

Unknown Speaker  48:33  

yeah, and that’s her favorite position. She was saying that’s the that’s the position that she can come in most easily. But he can’t perform in that can perform that

 

Unknown Speaker  48:44  

way. Well, here’s the other thing I want to say is what I believe that if he gets limp, he can probably he can get harder again. So what we have to do when our partners get limp is not freaked out and not ended just because they’re like, Oh my god, I can’t believe it. You could be like it’s okay baby and then you could go down And again, you can start to touch him, you can use some lube, you can like, get him hard again, because just because he got soft, doesn’t mean that it can’t come back and again in a moment, but it’s the both of you that collective, he’s going, I didn’t say that often you’re like, he’s not hard, and then it becomes a thing, but just be like, it’s okay, babe. And then you could kind of work around, make out again, do some other things. And I guarantee you, he’s going to get hard again. I mean, I’ll come back. And that’s a training thing, and then you get back on top of them. And then if it happens, again, you go back down again. And I think once you both realize that he can get hard again, it’s gonna be able to come back. This is what I’ve experienced with with people, it’s just a matter of retraining, what what means sex is over what means you know what I mean? So I think baby does have experience with that position. And he really think the reason why he’s getting soft is because I think he probably really wants to be there and deliver and he just can’t. So it’s kind of retraining. It’s almost like creating new neural pathways in the brain. That’s what it’s about.

 

Damona  49:56  

Knowing Yes, well, and it sounds like this relationship is knew, but I often hear from people in long term relationships that they want to try new things or they get to this Roadblock, and they don’t really know how to take things in a different direction. What do you say to that?

 

Unknown Speaker  50:15  

Oh, it’s it’s a great question because that is so common that couples are like, what what do we do? What where do we go? We’ve got

 

Damona  50:19  

our friend Emily.

 

Unknown Speaker  50:21  

Exactly. I was gonna say, Come on, girl. It’s okay. But the first thing is, is communicating about it and saying what? I think we can both agree that we want to be the greatest lovers to each other ever. And I love all these things about relationship but there’s I feel like there’s so much more that we don’t even know we’ve been together so long would you can we can we make this our thing right now? Can we figure out what would be super hot for both of us? And a great place to start is you each talk about maybe you will share the most memorable time you’ve had sex like what is the top three moments for you? Like it could be like something that happened or position or glance or a look? And then just by you explaining that And then your partner coming back to you and saying his times, there’s so much detail. There’s so much information just in those moments like, like, the most memorable time could be, you know, when you guys were on vacation, and oftentimes on vacation because there’s no distractions, and maybe you were in a hotel room, and then all of a sudden, like someone else walked in and saw you. And then you’re like, Okay, well, there was no distractions, the window was open, and then someone else walked in. So there was like, the element of surprise, or maybe voyeurism. Or maybe it was it was going really slow. And he was slowly it was the way that he slowly addressed you. Or maybe you had a blindfold on. I mean, there’s intelligence in these in these moments. So I think once we find out these are the things that that worked, and why you like them, and then your partner would share the same things and you can say, Okay, well, let’s do more of that. So that’s a great place to start. Another thing is just to get smart together and a lot of couples Listen, I’ve found over the years I’ve been doing this for 15 years. The podcasts a lot of couples listen together to my show. And they’re like, Oh, well Emily says this and, you know, use me like, I don’t care if people blame me and they’re like, well, like you can stop and be like, what do you think about us trying watching porn together or buying some sex toys together? That is mostly what we’re missing. It’s not that we don’t love our partner, but we’re missing novelty. We’re missing something new and different. So it’s like toys, getting ideas, research, reading a book together, listening to my show, just finding new ways to connect. You know, it could just be even outside the bedroom, like our same bedroom over day over day can get boring. Everything does after a while,

 

Damona  52:36  

especially sex. Thank you for those tips. I’ll be sure to pass them on to my friend. This was awesome. Thank you so much for joining me Emily. I’m so glad to have you on dates and maybe

 

Unknown Speaker  52:47  

you for having me. I’m so honored. And

 

Damona  52:52  

y’all you got to get listening to the sex with Emily podcast or check her out on Sirius XM stars channel 109. She’s on every day. You can find her on your favorite podcast platform. And hey, like she said, you can use the podcast as a jumping off point for your next sex talk. Thanks so much for being here.

 

Unknown Speaker  53:11  

Thank you for having me.

 

Damona  53:13  

We have made it through Episode 308 of dates and mates. I actually did an interview on Emily’s podcast too, and I’ll put a link in the show notes or you can join Patreon, where I’m adding the cliffsnotes versions of all of my media interviews and podcasts that I’ve appeared on. I’ll bullet out everything you need to know so you can follow along and soak up the most important info. But that’s not everything you would get from being in my patreon Friends with Benefits Program. I also have a step by step video training on how to start online dating today. Plus in a few days on Wednesday, the sixth of May, I’ll be dropping a new video training on how to tell if someone is good match for you on Tinder. Just using Facial analysis techniques work. Yes, watch the mind of some of our listeners being blown as they experience the brilliance of a live facial analysis by Susan. I bet, y’all Honestly, this is like a game changer info. It’s all going down in the Patreon. You can get all of these resources for you starting at just five bucks a month@patreon.com, slash dates and mates. I’d love to have you join the community. In the meantime, please, let’s let’s connect. I’m on all the socials at damona Hoffman. And I love hearing from you all all of these questions that we’ve been getting are so rich and layered. And I know that there are a lot of you nodding your head to these questions going, Oh, that’s a problem for me too. And if you’re thinking that then I want to hear what your question is, because I guarantee you it’s going to help somebody else who is listening to the show. Don’t forget to share, share what you’ve learned, share this episode and Please join me again next week all my subscribers get the episodes the minute that they post until next week.

 

Unknown Speaker  55:06  

I wish you comfortable face masks and happy dating

5 Binge Worthy Dates & Mates Episodes

New to the Dates & Mates Podcast and Damona Hoffman? Here’s where you start.

 

 

Episode 387: Thirst Traps & How To Date A Celeb

Damona is joined by Emmy-nominated actress and Transgender Rights Activist, Laverne Cox (YES, THEE LAVERNE COX). She dishes all about how she found love on Tinder, her dating app strategy as a trans woman, & how she responds to being fetishized on dating apps. If there’s one sentence that summarizes this episode, it’s when Laverne said “don’t disrespect yourself by accepting less than what you’re looking for in love.”

Read the full recap here…

 

Episode 400: Dr. Drew & The Big 400

As it’s the 400th episode of Dates & Mates, Damona is talking with the man that started it all. The OG, the GOAT of dating and relationship advice, and host of the Loveline radio show for over 30 years – it’s Dr. Drew Pinsky! Damona and Drew answer listener questions throughout the episode, and his top tips for “doing the dance of dating.”

Read more about Dr. Drew here!

 

Episode 402: The 7 Love Styles & Doppelbangers

We’ve all heard of the Five Love Languages – AKA words of affirmation, quality time, acts of service, gifts and physical touch. And most times, you can’t go on a first date without someone asking you what your love language is.

But fun fact: did you know that the love languages were created in the 80’s? Former therapist Molly Owens thought it was time for a refresh, and we agree. Molly is the CEO of Truity, one of the leading providers of research-backed personality tests, and created the 7 Love Styles.

Read here to figure out what love style you are…

 

Episode 431: Green Flags & Don’t Text Your Ex Happy Birthday

Nick Viall, former star of The Bachelor and host of The Viall Files podcast, joins Dates & Mates for a 2nd time to talk about his new book, “Don’t Text Your Ex Happy Birthday.” Damona and Nick also deliberate our generation’s crucial questions: Does bad texting mean bad communication? How can we stop feeling stuck in our dating lives? And what really is the difference between a player and a f**kboy?

Find out the answers here!

 

Episode 450: Code-Switching Valentine & Smart Sex

Damona’s long-time friend and colleague Emily Morse, host of the Sex With Emily podcast, sits down with Damona for a special (and might I say, spicy) Valentine’s episode of Dates & Mates! Damona and Emily dive into what “great sex” actually looks like, and how to take control of your own arousal.

Plus, did you know you have a Sex IQ?? We didn’t either. Emily shares how you can figure out yours.

Read more about it here!

 

Dates & Mates is here to give you all the latest & greatest information you need on dating. Are there any topics you want Damona to discuss on the podcast? Let us know! DM Damona on all the socials @DamonaHoffman OR email asst@damonahoffman.com.

Sexy Scrabble & Chemical Romance

YOUR BRAIN ON ROMANCE

Today, we’re talking about brain chemistry and romance. Do you remember those ‘Your Brain on drugs’ commercials from the 90s? They were all like, “your brain will turn to mush, and you won’t be able to make good decisions, and your emotions will be all over the place….” Yeah, basically that’s also your brain on love.

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But not to fret! Later we’ll be talking with Noelle Cordeaux – co-host of the “Everything Life Coaching Podcast.” She’s here to help us prevent our brains from turning into mush and give us a guide to the brain for romance.

More on that later, first Damona covers headlines!

 

DATING DISH (3:30)

Where the affairs are happening right now

This week, Damona received a press release from Seeking Arrangement explaining that their usership is actually up.

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Ariana isn’t spending quarantine alone

Okay so here’s what we know about Ari’s new boo: he’s a real estate big shot, he has a lot of the same friends, and he miiiiiggght basically be Pete Davidson.

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New ideas for quarantine dates

Listen, we’re all tired of Netflix and Chill. Men’s Health has some new ideas to keep things interesting while quarantine dating. Sexy Scrabble anybody?

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MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE (10:45)

Our guest for today is Noelle Cordeaux,  the CEO of JRNI and the co-host of the “Everything Life Coaching Podcast.” You may remember her co-host from a previous episode, John Kim – The Angry Therapist.

She’s here to give us a basic “Romantic’s Guide to the Brain” and some perspective on how your brain and your biology affect romance.

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Noelle and Damona talk:

  • My Chemical Romance: The 3 human brain chemicals in each stage of romance  
  • Serotonin and the “meet cute.” 
  • Why your brain has you thinking, “This is the one!”.
  • Why you can’t see the” truth” about your partner until 24 months after you first meet 
  • Why your brain can’t tell the difference between a new “pair bond” & an opioid addiction  
  • How female birth control changes the way you evaluate a partner 
  • Why we seek partners who represent something we missed in childhood
  • When you’re most likely to fall in love
  • Slow love?
  • Love isn’t an emotion

Check out the Everything Life Coaching Podcast podcast on all your favorite podcast platforms!

TECHNICALLY DATING (34:25)

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Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • My date forgot about a date that we scheduled 24 hours ago. Last night, we set a time, place, and everything and planned to get drinks after he got off work. Basically, I waited at the place for 30 minutes, sent him a text, to which he replied “?”. I got stood up and he’s so apologetic about it but is this a red flag? His text to me “sorry I’m a total dick and I deserve never to be talked to again.” but no explanation or attempt to salvage
  • I’m seeing a woman who told me she doesn’t want to go deeper because she doesn’t want to risk losing our friendship. Should I keep trying or is this a soft way to let me down?

 

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:12  

Hello lovers, I hope you’re all staying healthy and safe. But I’m hearing far too many stories about people still dating in person right now. Please do us all a favor and just stay home. There are still so many ways to connect. And I believe that in the end, this period will actually improve our connections and be better for dating overall. But in the meantime, we all have to do our part. If you’re still feeling that drive for connection, that desire to have matches pop up in your inbox. Don’t worry, I’ve got you covered. I just released an exclusive training just for my patients. Patreon friends with benefits all about social distance dating. It covers where the singles are right now, how to have a successful virtual date, how to know if a match is really right for you, and so much more. And that’s all waiting for you right now. If you join our Patreon community@patreon.com, slash dates and mates, the link will be included in the show notes and it’s only $5 to join. I’d love to have you be a part of the community. I’d love for you to keep dating and learning new dating skills working on your mindset working on your dating strategy. And I’m here to support you all the way through this pandemic. And I know your dating life may be stalled at the moment. But as they say, The show must go on we are not stopping. I’ve already told y’all I intend on making more episodes for another seven seasons. So you can still count on me every Monday for your dates & mates. Fix Today, we are talking all about brain chemistry and romance. You remember those? This is your brain on drugs commercials from the 90s. They’re all like your brain will turn to mush and you won’t be able to make good decisions and your emotions will be all over the place. Yeah, that’s basically your brain on love too, because love is a drug. But don’t fret. We are going to be talking with Noel Cordova. She’s the co host of the everything life coaching podcast, and she’s here to help us prevent our brains from turning to emotional mush. But first, I will be discussing this week’s headlines. Producer Leo is working remotely today but she is still churning out the dates and maids and we are sending her much love. We are going to be talking about where the affairs are happening during the quarantine and we have a big reveal of Ariana Grande is new boo. Plus new ideas for your quarantine dates if you’re tired of watching Tiger King and just go into bed. Oh wait, maybe that’s just me. Then Noel and I will cover your questions including, what do you do when you get stood up? And how to tell if someone is just letting you down easy.

Damona  3:24  

on the docket for today’s dates and mates. I am going to hit these headlines

Damona  3:33  

If you’re looking for an affair, I know just where to go seeking arrangement seeking comm reported that they had a 74% increase over this time last year and new members who here’s what this tells me. This quarantine can make or break it for your relationship if you are already seeing someone right now. But here’s the thing. It’s like It’s like These fantasy affairs that actually aren’t going to be consummated for a long time that are sparking up because people are in this pressure cooker. You’re with your partner all day, every day, all of the challenges that you have that you used to be able to escape are now staring you in the face every morning and noon and night. And so people are turning to apps and sites like seeking and Ashley Madison because they’re trying to escape. They’re trying to avoid looking at what these relationship challenges really are. And they’re just looking for an outlet to be able to chat and make a connection with someone else. Have someone else tell them that they’re beautiful that they are proud of them for what they’re doing that they are. They are happy that they’re hanging in there through this challenging time. We’re all just looking for a little more love and support. But what I would say Rather than turning to an outside person, could we use this moment to look inward at our relationship and see what could be fixed during this time, what you could talk through, and remember not to react to what’s being said, but to really take time to listen and respond thoughtfully and look for solutions. We are going to be in this unfortunately for a long time. And hopefully, if you made a commitment to your relationship, you’re going to be in that for a long time too. And we can’t keep brushing the problems under the rug, drag him out right now. And let’s talk about it in a compassionate way. And really look for solutions to these problems so that you can move forward stronger together in the future. One person that is a lot stronger than she was in her previous relationship is ariana grande de you may remember that she connected with this random Joe in a bar she was she was photographed smooching some guy up and nobody knew who he was. Well, it’s been revealed. It’s a fella named Dalton Gomez. He’s a high end real estate agent actually looks a little bit like Pete Davidson, who I was alluding to earlier, her big breakup from before. And she’s been showing him on social the last few days. But here’s the interesting thing about it. For a lot of you who may have started dating someone right before the quarantine, they’ve decided to quarantine together. And this really adds a big challenge for a new relationship. And she does have a history as you all know of jumping into relationships very quickly. I think she NP or engaged within three or four weeks of dating one another. So she’s done it again. She’s jumped right into the arms of the next guy waiting for her Look, she’s a cat. She’s a great girl, she loves to take care of somebody. And she’s ended up being the caretaker and a lot of these relationships she’s had in the past. But I just want to warn any of you who may be in a similar situation and facing a dating pattern. If you see yourself on the track, for a relationship, repeat doing the same thing that didn’t work in your last relationship, or let’s put on the brakes, back it up a little bit. This is a time to really slow down and evaluate. And if you are quarantining with somebody that you barely know right now, you have to really ask yourself, Is this what I want for my future? if let’s say one of us gets it, do I want to be sitting here sick with this person? Is this person going to be there for me? If If I need the support down the road, you may not know I don’t know. Maybe Dalton Gomez will be that for Ariana Grande day, but let’s just take a beat and Look at our relationship history, and decide if we want our relationship past to also be our relationship future.

If you’re looking for a quarantine date Men’s Health to the rescue, I will put the link to this in the show notes. I got to tell you, there were some pretty racy suggestions here. But there were also some very cute ideas like building a pillow for if you don’t have private outdoor access. I don’t know about you. But I remember as a kid, building a pillow for was one of the most exciting things I did. And you could do it inside the house. You don’t have to go out and it adds just this level of playfulness and feeling of nostalgia which is something you’ve probably heard me say on the show before that really can bond you to someone so I thought that was a super cute idea from mental. If you want to get a little risque. This isn’t even like close to one of the more risky ideas but they suggested playing strip scratching My husband and I, during our what was it our 30th wedding anniversary, I’m embarrassed. I don’t remember which University. He was our 12. Last year, we went to a hotel that had this cool little lounge with games in it. And we played the most fun game of Scrabble ever, over drinks. never occurred to me to play strip Scrabble. So maybe you could get a little creative. You could have a karaoke night. There’s a lot of apps that can connect you and there’s a link to one in the men’s health article. You could play a game of Never have I ever I also, if you followed the last TV series that I did a question of love that was based on the 36 questions that lead to love that was in the New York Times, and how asking these intimate questions can really bond you to your partner. If it bonded strangers, just imagine what it could do for someone that you’re already in a relationship with. But hey, maybe that is something you could try. If you’re doing virtual quarantine dates as well, there’s so many ideas out there. There’s so many ways that we can be creative and innovate. During this time. I just asked that you please stay home let’s, let’s flatten the curve. But let’s pique our interest in our current relationship or possibly in a new relationship. And in just a moment, we will have Noel corto, who’s the co host of the everything life coaching podcast, and the co founder of journey coaching, talking about your brain on drugs, the drug of love, I cannot wait.

 

We’re here with Noel Cordell. She is the CEO of journey and that’s about Jr. and I they are a coaching platform that trains coaches, and she’s also the co host of the everything life coaching podcast. You may remember her co hosts from that show from a previous episode. JOHN Kim the angry therapist great episode, check that out. But first, today we have to talk because Noel is going to be giving us the basic romantics guide to the brain and some perspective on how your brain and your biology actually affects romance. I am so pumped for today’s episode you guys know I’m, I’m all about this brain chemistry and nerding out on love. So luckily today, I don’t have to do it alone, please get big smooches to Noel Cordeaux.

Noelle Cordeaux 11:30  

Thank you so much for having me. And honestly, I don’t like doing it alone either. So this

Damona  11:36  

this is a wonderful day, I am really pumped because so many of my listeners feel like they’re kind of on this, this, this journey not to use it to use your own term, this journey of love and feeling like they don’t have any control over it. They don’t really understand what’s happening in their body. They don’t understand dating apps. They don’t understand how they’re reacting to people on dates, and they’re Just kind of going through the motions like there has to be a better way. And I find that the better way to start that way to solve most problems I’m sure as a coach you you would agree with this is to first figure out what the heck is going on

Noelle Cordeaux 12:14  

100% 100% I, you know, I say to my students at journey coaching and to my clients, it’s not you, it’s your brain. Okay, so let’s talk

Damona  12:24  

about that. My Chemical Romance there are three human brain chemicals that come into play at each stage of romance. Can you talk us through that?

Noelle Cordeaux 12:36  

Yeah, I sure can. And you know that some of these chemicals teamed up with each other. So there’s a lot of complex processes, but I think the most important piece of information that I can drop is the bomb, that when you experience romantic love, it’s actually not an emotion. It is a it is a hardwired motivator. system that’s evolutionary, and it’s been built up over the history of humankind, to enable humans to find and maintain intimate relationships with a preferred partner.

Damona  13:15  

Oh, wait, that’s deep. We have to back that up for a second. Because there’s a lot in there. You said love is not an emotion. We are basically biologically wired for it. So explain how that plays out then in today’s

Noelle Cordeaux 13:32  

in today’s world of dating,

Noelle Cordeaux 13:34  

yeah. So you know, the feeling the chemical feelings of romance are not the only motivational system that we have hardwired in our body. So another really common one is our negativity bias that’s associated with a fight or flight response. So the way that that works is because our ancestors used to have to physically outrun danger. We are naturally attuned to that which is negative. It really doesn’t help us out in modern life. Same deal with romantic love. Obviously, everyone loves love. We see it reflected in movies and poetry and music and all of the things that humans produce. So it’s clearly a huge and vital part of our existence and the purpose of it is procreation of the species. So whenever we’re feeling these feelings, we kind of have to step back and say, okay, there’s something deeper going on here. There are unconscious drives, there are chemicals, neurotransmitters that are coursing through our body that are kind of hijacking. our capacity to choose for ourselves how we respond and react in situations where romantic love is on the table.

Damona  14:50  

That sounds complicated. Noel

Damona  14:54  

In all seriousness, you know, I’ve said before on the show that I don’t believe in love at first sight. I believe in lust at first sight. But I think I believe in slow love and that love. True love develops over time. What’s your reaction to that?

Noelle Cordeaux 15:14  

You’re pretty spot on with the way the chemicals work,

Damona  15:18  

guys, I didn’t pay her to say that or anything. But you know, I’m saying I’m saying it from a from an experiential point of view of watching how my clients have developed relationships over the last 15 years that I’ve been doing this Tell me from like the more brain chemistry perspective, what’s really going on in that?

Noelle Cordeaux 15:38  

Yeah, so so when you fall in romantic love with someone, for men, it tends to be visually based for women, it tends to be emotionally based and, and that’s not as terrible as it sounds. You know, from an evolutionary perspective, symmetry is what typically tipped off on ourselves. species that somebody was healthy. So symmetry is attractive for people and men are more susceptible to focusing on symmetry than women. Women are looking for stability from partner. That’s where the emotional piece comes in. And again, this isn’t based in you know, kind of hearsay this is these are long held evolutionary traits. So, the deep cut is that we, we evolved from bonobos in this particular regard. We have a 90% DNA match with bonobos, which are chimpanzees. And these guys used to live in tree tops, and when they lived in tree tops, they were a non monogamous species. When they fell out of the trees and began living on the ground, though women were female, but no bows needed men to take care of them or males to take care of them and then they began serial monogamy and then humans evolved from that

Damona  16:58  

gives a whole different tone to the term swinging.

Noelle Cordeaux 17:02  

Oh, yeah.

Damona  17:06  

Okay, sorry for the corny joke, but I know a lot of people listening are thinking that was evolution, right. But we’re modern. We don’t have to be. We don’t have to be married to this old model of how relationships were formed.

Noelle Cordeaux 17:27  

Absolutely. What do you say to that? We do not have to be. We can choose we absolutely have determination. But what we don’t have control over is our brain chemistry. So when there there are two types of romantic love reciprocated and unrequited. And they’re very different beasts. And so you know, everybody listening, think about what it feels like to fall in love. That means that you have focused attention on that person that there’s magnification you have pink lenses, there intrusive thinking you can’t get that person out of your head you feel exhilaration, torrents of emotion, yearning for them looking for clues. How many times have you guys seen people like listening to songs looking for clues about the person they’re interested in? And all of those behavioral markers are actually driven by neurotransmitters that start showing up when our brain gets tipped off that, hey, I might have a meeting partner.

Damona  18:29  

Okay, so you’re telling me basically we are working against our own biology, like when when we say, Well, I don’t necessarily I don’t want a partnership or I’m not into monogamy? Is that what you’re saying? Or am I hearing this wrong?

Noelle Cordeaux 18:44  

Yeah. So so so when we’re talking about kind of working against ourselves, we have to understand where these drives are coming from. And there’s there’s two different kinds of mating drives. And so we’re using like really technical language here to describe what happens in us not As in certainly humans, but as an animal species, right, so we all have hardwired in us last, which is the craving for sexual gratification. And that evolved in humans, where we’re looking to seek sexual union with a semi appropriate partner so that when I say semi appropriate partner, that’s a genetic match. And that’s actually driven by a sense of smell in humans, interestingly enough, and then the second piece is attachment. And so that evolved in humans to enable our ancestors to live with me long enough to rear a child. And those feelings paired with a long term partner are a really specific part of your brain that grows with courtship rituals, and intellectual conversation and emotional bonding.

Damona  19:54  

So let’s talk about that because I mentioned slow love, but I think some of our listeners that are newer to this concept, don’t really get what I mean.

Noelle Cordeaux 20:07  

So how

Damona  20:08  

does that happen? And like how, what is actually happening in our brains as you’re getting to know someone slowly over time. And I’ll just add one thing. I also recommend that my clients spaced out their interactions. Because when it all happens when you’re in that initial phase, and you’re seeing each other, like every day for the first week, you think that you’re very bonded, and you’re having this flood of brain chemicals, I imagine. And then you get further down the road and the, the feeling changes what’s going on in that in that evolution.

Noelle Cordeaux 20:45  

Yeah, so so you’re I’m gonna validate you again, your advice is actually spot on. I’m two for two I two for two with your brain chemicals. So spacing out communication Gives you a fighting chance to disrupt the mayhem that takes place in your brain. So when you first fall in love or when you have that surge of chemicals with romantic love, that period of time with those bonkers chemicals will last 12 to 18 months. So we have to understand that first of all the first 12 to 18 months are not going to be an authentic representation of what you can expect from this person as a partner. So really early on, what happens is dopamine spikes and the other chemical we really want to pay attention to here is serotonin, which lowers so how those two components relate to each other is dobutamine is so very, very addictive. So a text message from that person, contact communication. They liked your Instagram post. That all gives you this motivation set that you keep wanting more You keep reaching for this romantic drug that you’re being fed. On the other hand, serotonin, which is a regulator lowers when you’re in that crazy beginning phase. So that serotonin regulator increases your sense of risk taking behaviors. That’s how people can get very swept away in the early stages of romantic love. serotonin produces a sense of call and mood stabilization. So when that gets hijacked everything kind of goes out the window in terms of actual sense.

Damona  22:32  

So we turn crazy is what you’re saying. Yeah, we sure do. We turn crazy. Our inhibition lowers. We’re like high basically high on dopa mean. We’re pretty messed up in that first phase,

Noelle Cordeaux 22:44  

very much so very much so

Noelle Cordeaux 22:47  

and that

Damona  22:48  

that’s for a relatively long time you said 12 to 18 months

Noelle Cordeaux 22:52  

12 to 18 months.

Damona  22:55  

So this is why we here Well, I thought I knew him and then married him. And this is not the man that I married, you’re saying it’s really not the man that you married, or you’re not the same?

Noelle Cordeaux 23:07  

Exactly both all of the above. And if you happen to be on SSRIs, which are a form of antidepressants, or birth control, the birth control messes up your sense of smell. And a lot of times when you go off of those kinds of medications, you’re no longer attracted to your partner because your turn on template was compromised when you first got together.

Damona  23:31  

Okay, so so what do we do Noel? Like, do we just take the IUD or do we take his shirt home and smell it and sleep with it? Like how can we retrain our brain so that we can be wired correctly for romance?

Noelle Cordeaux 23:45  

Yeah, well, you know, I think that

Noelle Cordeaux 23:49  

awareness is the key to everything. So having a pretty clear understanding of the way your brain works, what the brain chemicals are, how they exist, what your experiences In the moment is really valuable information. So let’s talk about testosterone. When you are single, your testosterone is higher. So you know how people say, Oh my god, I got no relationship and I put on weight. That’s because your testosterone lowered and you didn’t feel like working out and you were putting on less muscle and you weren’t as interested in attracting a partner. And then we break up your testosterone goes right back up again, that gets us into fighting form to find our partner.

Damona  24:30  

Wait, that’s for men and women.

Noelle Cordeaux 24:32  

Oh, yeah.

Damona  24:33  

Okay, so that’s, that’s different than what a lot of people hear we hear testosterone just being associated with men really, but for women, it’s also important driver in relationships

Noelle Cordeaux 24:44  

very much so very much though. So testosterone has a lot to do with your sex drive, and both single males and females have higher levels of testosterone and if you separate or divorce or breakup, your testosterone rises

Damona  24:59  

this Just this is just blowing my mind.

Noelle Cordeaux 25:03  

Okay, this is blowing

Damona  25:04  

my mind and I know it’s going to blow the minds of a lot of our listeners. What about for those who really want to fall in love? Like we have all the information we know that our brain is basically working against us or working in concert with biological factors that we cannot control you. Can you still fall in love in today’s world? Is

Noelle Cordeaux 25:24  

it possible? Yes, it is certainly possible. And you know, there we can work with our motivation system to induce scenarios when we actually fall in love. So I’ll give you the one two punch, I’ll let’s talk about the scenarios in which we’re most likely to fall in love. And then once we are in a relationship that we are kind of looking around and saying, well, this is a really good thing. Let’s talk about the parts of the brain and what we need to do to keep everything going. So you’re most likely to fall in love When you meet someone during a life crisis. So don’t you know try to bring on a life crisis but if you happen to be in crisis start looking around. It’s a really good move.

Damona  26:08  

This is this is pretty different. This is a different approach because a lot of times you hear that people like you shouldn’t meet someone in the middle of a crisis because everything in your life is a blur. Like what let’s define crisis for people

Noelle Cordeaux 26:26  

like Yeah, boy.

Damona  26:28  

Or girl.

Noelle Cordeaux 26:30  

Yeah, actually. Yes. So times of stress, make you more likely to fall in love novelty. If you meet someone when you’re moving. When everything is brand new. If you’re having a hard time at work if you’re suddenly meeting a whole bunch of strangers. Anything that is different or stressful makes you more likely to fall in love. When you’re faced with mystery novelty Kwazii dangerous situations.

Damona  27:00  

This is why I say no well that you want to do something on a date that has action and activity to it. Rather than just oh my gosh, if I hear of another boring dinner date, but if you do something or there’s like competition or your, you know, go kart racing and there’s adrenaline, that’s it, that’s a better

Noelle Cordeaux 27:24  

first date, right? It is, and it’s all to do with those dopamine levels. You’re kicking them into high gear.

Damona  27:33  

And probably also, I’m just just musing here for a second. We hear people meeting at the gym,

Noelle Cordeaux 27:41  

does that yes, does the testosterone

Damona  27:42  

level there have something to do with that? Likely

Noelle Cordeaux 27:48  

and we can smell people I mean, we can you can smell people. And and and that, you know, you cannot underestimate the role of smell. Women are attracted To men whose sweat smells good to them, and that signals that you’re good genetic match.

Damona  28:08  

I’m gonna say something really creepy.

Noelle Cordeaux 28:11  

Do it Do it.

Damona  28:12  

I actually smell my husband like, like, Oh, my God. How like a bloodhound. Yeah, like, go up to him. And I’ll be like, I just want to smell like this is so weird. That is not weird. I can tell him now this is not weird. Doesn’t change though. Like the way that we smell them as like we’ve been together 16 years do people’s smells change in the way that you are attracted to certain smells change over time?

Noelle Cordeaux 28:42  

No, the chemical foundation will remain the same. What changes is the the way that you experience pair bonding. So in the beginning, lust is the main driver and then as you go deeper into the relationship, that’s when attachment and emotion takes over. Mm hmm.

Damona  29:03  

Tell me more.

Noelle Cordeaux 29:05  

Yeah. So emotional attachment is one of the things that keeps couples together, and it goes through four year chapters. So as we’re thinking about this, there is a really specific part of your brain that we want to be concerned with. And it’s the cottage in stealer part of your brain. And this part of your brain lights up, the deeper the verbal, mental, emotional connection. So when you press on that part of your brain, it expands your capacity for pair bonding. So it expands the capacity of the couples stay together if they are mutually engaging with each other and pressing on that intellectual, emotional, void that needs to be filled and unknown. thing to understand about this part of your brain is there’s another time when it lights up. And it also lights up with cocaine and opioid withdrawal. Oh my gosh,

Damona  30:09  

I thought you were gonna say like in childbirth. Then you’re like, when you’re strung out on drugs.

Noelle Cordeaux 30:17  

Yeah. So you’re similar a breakup and you feel like you’re dying. That’s why you’re basically

Damona  30:26  

having like an opioid withdrawal.

Noelle Cordeaux 30:29  

Correct from the psychological emotional part of your brain that you need.

Damona 30:36  

So wait, how can we get over this though?

Noelle Cordeaux 30:40  

Like, like there’s no

Damona  30:42  

What is that? I don’t remember the name of that drug. You take like when your

Noelle Cordeaux 30:48  

lockers no yeah, you can’t.

Damona  30:51  

You can’t go to the hospital and be like, help me I’m having a relationship with Joe. Give me a shot. Yeah. So I do this. With with The tools that we have that are legally and responsibly available.

Noelle Cordeaux 31:04  

Yeah, so I mean, first let’s talk about maintaining your relationships. So you know, similar to when you first start dating the role of dopamine is really important. So doing novel and exciting things together, increase adrenaline equals increased opening. Prolonged eye gazing is something that really works to get those brain chemicals rolling in to keep everything pair bonded, increased. Dopamine, he also gives you more feelings of attraction towards each other. So the more does mean that you can direct towards each other, the more you’re going to feel attracted to each other touch also amplifies and exponentially impacts pair bonding. So the more actual touching that a couple engages in, the more likely they are to stay together. And that really specifically triggers the endorphin of oxytocin, which gives That feeling of attachment. And also working out increased testosterone equals increased romance. So staying mentally and physically stimulated is really what we’re talking about. So, and the intellectual piece can’t be discounted here because that’s your prefrontal cortex, the logic center of your brain, your reasoning, and so we need to keep that piece really super alive.

Damona  32:24  

That’s a lot to do. But I think we could start somewhere we can start small. And just understanding like I said at the beginning of this conversation, just first understanding what factors are at work is the beginning of that process. But I know through journey, you You not only coach people and help people understand all of these factors and create a plan to move forward but you also are training other coaches to be able to to spread this message. Tell me a little bit about journey and why you have this mission. To to start this company.

Noelle Cordeaux 33:02  

Oh, sure. So, you know, journey coaching is a coaching collective. We have coaches from all over the world who have come through our training program to learn things similar to what we’re talking about today. It all starts with a brain. It all starts with, you know, how did we get here? What’s our evolutionary cycles? Let’s understand what makes us up. It’s not you, it’s your brain. We look at the difference between feelings and facts. And we train coaches based on graduate level evidence based work. The reason that we started our company is because when john and i, my business partner both started out 10 years ago, it was really hard to gain traction as a coach. And so we created the company in the community that we wish we had.

Damona  33:46  

That is wonderful. And yeah, I encourage anyone who is listening that thinks they might want to help other people in this way to check out journey and see how how they can begin this process because we need more We need more warriors of love and of truth and of authenticity and all the wonderful things that I know you teach in in this program. Before we go, Noel, we have questions that have been submitted to us from our listeners. So I would love for you to stick around and answer a few of those.

Noelle Cordeaux 34:20  

Absolutely.

Damona  34:25  

Welcome back to dates and mates. We are here doing your favorite segment and mine technically dating.

Noelle Cordeaux 34:33  

Technically.

Damona  34:35  

All right, no, no well Korto you are in the hot seat because we have questions that have been submitted from our listeners. This one comes to us from someone that says my date forgot about a date that we scheduled 24 hours ago. Last night we set a time place and everything and plan to get drinks after he got off work. Basically I waited at the place for 30 minutes. Send him a text to which he repeated Question mark. I got stood up and he’s so apologetic about it. But is this a red flag? He texted me Sorry I’m a total dick and I deserve to never be talked to again. But no explanation Noel or attempt to salvage? Is this a red flag People always ask me is this a red flag?

Noelle Cordeaux 35:19  

Yes. Red Flag. Yeah. Yes. You know, and really, you know, when we’re when we’re dating, one of the things that I always say to my coaches and my clients is, you know, it’s not about whether a certain behavior is good or bad. It’s what’s acceptable for your life. If it is fundamentally unacceptable for you to have someone not remember plans and to not give you an explanation, well, then this person’s behavior isn’t going to be a good fit.

Damona  35:52  

Yeah, I and I’m all for like giving people the benefit of the doubt. Like if they’re, look, I have I have goofed up. I’m pretty good with appointments but I have definitely goofed a couple of times and profusely apologized and said, Please like, Can I make it? How can I make it up to you?

Noelle Cordeaux 36:11  

But it sounds like

Damona  36:12  

from her response to his response to her, sorry, I’m a total dick and I deserve to never be talked to again. He’s not really making efforts to repair the relationship.

Noelle Cordeaux 36:24  

No, and it’s kind of a pass off. He’s abdicating responsibility. And instead of you know, owning it, he’s he’s linguistically forcing the choice for the other person to make the call. Yes, you deserve to or not be talked to again.

Damona  36:44  

Right. And I would bet, just based on this language, this is not the first time this has happened to him. No. Hmm. But then the question is, yeah, the question is, What can she do to avoid this happening again? Because I found like, my clients really don’t get stood up or ghosted, very often or at all. I can think of one in the last year. But do you have a system that you would tell your clients to make sure that people are showing up for them, and that they’re like honoring their time so that other people will honor it too.

Noelle Cordeaux 37:23  

I mean, very being very straightforward with what your ask is, you know, or what your expectations are at the beginning, that if communication is important, if promptness is important, if showing up is important, then let somebody know right up front, hey, this is important to me. And I’d like to see you and so if you’d like to see me you need to show up and communicate.

Damona  37:48  

Absolutely. And I was so I was when I was single. This was such a deal breaker for me. Like if someone canceled a date. That was just it and I, I want to make sure that like even though I said, I’m all for giving people the benefit of the doubt that it’s clear that I’m saying people, you teach people how to treat you. And I can think of so many instances where I was like really excited to go out with someone, but if they showed me who they were, I believe them right away, and I just was like, nope, we’re not gonna do this. And if she gives him the benefit of the doubt, she’s probably gonna end up with him not showing up for her down the road,

Noelle Cordeaux 38:26  

based on showing up in different ways.

Damona  38:30  

Yeah, you got me? Yep, exactly that Noel. Okay, one more question before you leave us for the day. This one comes to us from a fella who says, I’m seeing a woman who told me she doesn’t want to go deeper because she doesn’t want to risk losing our friendship. Should I keep trying? Or is this a way a soft way to let me down?

Noelle Cordeaux 38:54  

I have so many questions

Damona  38:57  

based on the information that we have you He’s been friend zoned. That’s for sure. But is it salvageable? Should he move on? What do you think?

Noelle Cordeaux 39:07  

So when he when he says, I have been seeing a woman, what does that mean? You know, are we talking about

Damona  39:14  

Like, like seeing her face? He’s seeing her face. Okay.

Noelle Cordeaux 39:19  

Yeah, I think

Damona  39:20  

it’s this casual like this epidemic of just hanging out dates or just like this Not knowing, you know, it’s people just not being in a specific dating situation, but we’re just hanging out.

Noelle Cordeaux 39:37  

Yeah. Okay, so So this sounds like a boundary has been set that this woman has said, you know, what we have going on right now is where I want to stay.

Damona  39:47  

Yeah, it could be a Friends with Benefits situation, too.

Noelle Cordeaux 39:49  

Yeah.

Noelle Cordeaux 39:52  

It could be and you know, I mean, honesty is always the best policy like if and it’s always worth a shot, you know, to say to somebody Hey, You’ve told me where your boundary is a See you, I hear you and I respect it. And here’s what I would like. So I’m going to put it on the table. And here’s the threshold that I have for continuing to see you and not having my needs met. So there’s gonna come a time when this casual thing ends, because I want more. And if you want more, let’s discuss it.

Damona  40:22  

Okay, now tell me from a, a chemical brain chemistry perspective. When, first of all, if a woman puts you in the friendzone, can you get out of it? And is it different from the man? And then also, if they are in a Friends with Benefits situation, and they’re like, let’s say they are having sex, can you? Can you still like form a relationship with someone else if you’re having sex with a different person?

Noelle Cordeaux 40:57  

Okay, we’re going to take these questions separately, the break Because the brain cams are all different. Yes. So

Noelle Cordeaux 41:05  

if if you are seeing someone and you have been friendzone. So this is not my opinion, this is like purely from a chemical perspective. So, dudes typically won’t give up the hunt because they’re attracted physically to the symmetry. Women’s minds can be changed because of the deepening emotional intimacy and capacity for support and connection.

Noelle Cordeaux 41:34  

Hmm.

Damona  41:36  

Go on.

Noelle Cordeaux 41:39  

So,

Damona  41:40  

so if she’s so she’s friendzone him, it’s,

Noelle Cordeaux 41:46  

it’s possible that she could change her mind. It is possible that she could change her mind. What would you have to do? Yeah, what would I do? A he would have to I mean, so we’re talking about that part. of your brain that lights up with pair bonding. So from an emotional intimacy and intellectual intimacy perspective, press on that part of the brain because that’s actually the more important part that the emotional connection supersedes the physical connection for women.

Damona  42:16  

Okay, so we’re not saying do that, but we’re saying, if you are friendzone, and you’d like to change it, and you want to devote the next three to six months of your life to try to do that, rather than to pursuing someone else, there you go. There, you know. Now we have to talk about friends with benefits from a chemical perspective, having sex with someone that’s easy and available, even if they are not somebody that you want to pair bond with. Does that reduce your ability to make another relationship happen?

Noelle Cordeaux 42:49  

Yes.

Damona  42:51  

Tell me more.

Noelle Cordeaux 42:53  

So, once you get into that zone, where you’re you’re being in To meet with somebody you’re so remember romantic love is a motivation system. That motivation system wants to keep kicking and complete itself. It goes through phases. It wants to go through the first 12 to 18 months and then it wants to go into the next four year chapter and then the four year chapter after that, basically looking at procreation as the goal. So I know that everybody listening to me is like, I don’t want to have a baby and like your brain and body don’t know that, right? Like, your brain and body are trying to override all of your actual desires. So what you’re doing is setting yourself up for a world of hurt on both sides for you and your partner. And that’s not an opinion that’s just the chemical facts. So when when stuff starts to not work or when love is unrequited or when that emotional piece doesn’t deepen, then we get into a whole series of other chemical reactions that scramble your brain.

Damona  44:08  

That sounds painful.

Noelle Cordeaux 44:10  

It is. Yeah, it’s stage one is protest. And that’s where we have frustration, restlessness, obsession, panic stress. And then stage two is despair and resignation. And that’s when we have depression.

Noelle Cordeaux 44:30  

Women withdraw socially and need to retell their story over and over again. men get angry and engage in risk taking behavior. Not my opinion, science.

Damona  44:43  

We can’t fight the science No. All right. Well, thank you for continuing to spread the good good word. If anyone listening is interested and exploring this world of coaching, you should check them out at journey coaching and that’s spelled j r n i Coaching comm or on the socials at journey coaching. Thank you so much for being here, Noel. It’s been awesome. Thank you. Thank you very much. I hope you enjoyed Episode 303 of dates and mates. And I hope I didn’t get too preachy on you about washing your hands and staying at home. But hey, somebody’s gotta say it. You can connect with me on all the socials. I’m still answering DMS and I’m taking questions for future dates and mates episodes. I’m at damona Hoffman on all the socials. Please connect with me. I love hearing from you guys. And we all could use a little extra community right now speaking of community, I’d love to have you as an official part of the dates and mates community on Patreon, my friends with benefits, get all my best goodies, especially that video training that I just released on how you can still be social distance dating. It’s so helpful, so juicy, I’m loving the feedback I’m getting from my current Patreon Patrons And friends with benefits. I’d love to have you in the club. Just go to patreon.com slash dates and mates. Until next week, I wish you good health and happy dating