This week on Dates & Mates, we’re exploring the way our relationship history impacts how we connect and find love with Attachment Theory expert, Jennifer Lehr LMFT.

Damona gets a lot of questions about the importance of attachment styles in future relationships and so today we’re getting some more information.


But first, as always, we’ve got headlines:


Mo’ money, Mo’ problems?

According to a new study from Magnify Money by Lendingtree, money is still a big point of contention for couples. 74% of partnered millennials and Zoomers report being mad at their partner for financial decisions they have made. Damona’s not so shocked by the results of this study and explains why.


Fauci-ing – the latest dating trend sweeping the nation

Shout out to Plenty of Fish for coining the best COVID-related dating term: “fauci-ing”. Here’s the best example we’ve seen on the internet to date:



Today we hear from Jennifer Lehr, a marriage and family therapist who specialized in educating couples on the relationship skills they need to build a solid, connected, and loving partnership.

She gives us some perspective for singles looking to find their forever partner. This interview went deep:

(11:00) Nature or Nurture: What determines a healthy relationship for you?

(13:00) How your relationship with your parents can impact the way you show up in your romantic relationships, too

(18:20) How to prevent your relationship history from repeating itself


Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • Lauren IG: What do you do if one person enjoys giving gifts and the other finds it hard to do because they feel they are bad at giving gifts. Like I’m good at being creative with my gifts because they are meaningful however, I notice men struggle because their gifts are always practical
  • Voice note from Jenn: A few weeks ago, you talked about the texting trap, which I totally agree with is an issue and I’ve witnessed it firsthand. And with others, I think it’s even worse during social distance dating right now. So I was wondering if you have any suggestions on talking points for what to do? What to say when you see the trap coming? What I’ve tried so far hasn’t really worked? It seems it’s hard to not make it personal to not take it personally, that kind of thing. So if you have any advice on what to say to hopefully be more successful in that I would appreciate it. Thanks!


The app solves many major challenges that Damona’s clients face in dating today:

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We are proud to collaborate with an app that empowers modern daters to feel safe and secure. If you want more information, check out Damona’s video on when to give out your number to people you meet on dating apps. Click here!



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Damona  0:18  

Hello, lovers, welcome to dates and mates with damona Hoffman presented by text now, you know, I have been in the dating advice game for a minute. And I know a lot about dating apps. I know a lot about attraction. I know a lot about communication and flirting and all of these tactical elements. But so many of you have asked me about the importance of attachment styles. I’m not an expert in them. But I know somebody who is, and she will be joining me a little bit later in the show. I have marriage and family therapist, Jennifer leir, who will dive deeper into the elements of emotional attraction. And she’ll show us how even if you didn’t learn how to express yourself and get your emotional needs met in a relationship before. Even if that relationship was with your parents. It’s not too late. It’s not too late to start today. But first, as always, I need to get you up to speed on the headlines for this week. Are you financially aligned with your partner? If not, is that a deal breaker? And could you be guilty of vouching? And we’ll tell you the signs of this new trend in just a minute Plus, I will be answering your questions like what to do if your partner’s love language makes you feel awkward? And how do you stop the texting trap dead in its tracks, all that and more. Today’s dates and mates. Now, it’s time to dish these dating dish. You’ve probably heard that money is the number one issue that couples argue about. And whether or not we agree on that statistic, what I can say is it’s a big deal for a lot of couples. And what I can also say is that a lot of times when couples are fighting about money, it’s not actually the money that they’re fighting about. They’re fighting about power, or control or freedom. Or it’s a tool that we use to communicate because think of just how much how much our lives are dictated by the way we spend our money and how much is in our bank accounts. I came across this wonderful article by magnify money by lending tree, you know, lending tree. And they said 74% of millennials and Gen Z years have been mad at their partner for a financial decision that they have made. And I was not surprised by that statistic. But of course, you know me, you know how my brain works, I’m always like, but why but why some of the things that that came up as issues in these relationships that they studied, it was a partner being raised with a different view on money, a partner earning a lot more money than the other which I can relate to. Interestingly, when I started dating my husband, I was making double what he made. And it wasn’t an issue for me. But I do see it as an issue for a lot of my clients and a lot of listeners who say that making sure that somebody is at or above their earning level is really important. People were also arguing about one partner being a saver and another spender. I have literally seen marriages break up because of this, because those kind of decisions are related to values. And you know how I feel about the factors of long term compatibility. And the values are most important, like literally values, what do you place value on? Someone being a saver and someone being a spender exemplifies not just an interest in certain things over others, but a philosophy of the way that you live your life. This was really interesting. In this article, they looked at Gen Z and millennial couples saving for the future. And this kind of surprised me that that folks in the Gen Z and millennial population are over half saving for a home, almost half saving for a baby. Whatever however much money you have, it’s not enough I can tell you that having two kids and many who are not yet engaged but already saving for our wedding because I can also tell you those are very, very expensive. You can if you want to reference back to the episode with David Tutera, you can know just how expensive they can get. But the interesting thing to me is that a lot of couples we’re not talking about things like debt, only one in seven had discussed debt previously. And I feel like that’s really important if you’re looking at the future that you potentially could have with someone if you are interested. Getting married, guess what their debt is suddenly your debt. I know you didn’t go to that school. I know you didn’t buy those, those things on your credit card, but you acquire them when you become married, you’re blending your life and your financial history with that person. But this was a little bit of a shift 24% of married Gen Z and millennial couples still keep separate bank accounts. I’ve heard this discussed a lot more in recent years. And even when I began coaching 15 years ago, I found that not many people did keep separate bank accounts. But when we think about money as representing freedom, and control and, and power, it really makes sense as to why people would want to keep separate bank accounts. But the flip side of that is that it means that you have the flexibility to do whatever you want. And with freedom also comes confusion sometimes, and can it can open up the door for mistrust in the relationship. And it’s important if you decide that you want to maintain separate bank accounts, that you still have some transparency over the choices that you make and how you spend it. Because you don’t want to end up years down the road realizing that you had different values than your partner, or that your partner was spending money on things secretly. That couldn’t be out in the open. It’s more I think, just as peace of mind to know that regardless of where the relationship goes that you always have a nest egg to keep you safe.


Well, a lot of people out here on these dating streets trying to stay safe from Coronavirus, and it turns out that has created a new dating term. Fauci have you all been Fauci lately? It probably doesn’t mean what you think. But this term was coined by plenty of fish back in November, actually, what it means if you look it up on the Urban Dictionary, declining to date someone because you don’t feel they’re taking COVID-19 seriously enough, it sort of bubbled up to the surface again on Valentine’s Day is an important term because hbos axios asked Dr. Fauci if he knew what Fauci was, and that he had created this whole term related to dating, he’s been happily married for years, he got a little bit of a kick out of it. But really, when you step back and look at it, I feel like we should all be Fauci to some extent. Like if you’re not making your decisions in dating without an eye towards the potential dates, COVID dating safety plan or the exposures or the number of people in their bubble, I think you’re doing yourself a huge disservice. And before you say, Oh, I already had Coronavirus. Just know, we don’t know enough yet. We don’t know for sure that you can’t get it twice. I I’m not going to get into a whole debate with you guys about vaccines and your feelings on that. But what I can say is the best thing you can do for yourself is communicate is to get clear on where somebody else stands and what exposures you are opening yourself up to. If you bring somebody else into your space, and into your bubble, so call me a Fauci call me Fauci ng if you will. But in my book, it’s the best practice that you could be employing in your dating filters right


Unknown Speaker  8:43  



Damona  8:44  

Those are the headlines for today, when we come back, we’re gonna go deep, we’re gonna go deep into attachment styles with Jennifer layer. But just a quick reminder that if you love the show, and you want to support it, and you want to be all up in the club with me and be a part of my patreon Friends with Benefits club, you can get access to my weekly behind the mic live stream q&a, you can see additional tutorials and content that is not available anywhere else. Plus, you can get a 10% discount on any of my online programs, and so much more. I want you to be up in the club, I want you to tell me what gems you want me to play. I want to know more about your love life and see how I can support you and I can do that best. If you become one of my friends with benefits, my FWS can join for just five bucks, and you can sign slash dates and mates. If I’m moving a little bit too quickly for you. Maybe you’re a new listener, you’re not really sure if we’re at that point in our relationship yet. That’s cool. That’s cool. Just give us a review and a rating and maybe share the show with a friend so we can help heal more hearts. Don’t go anywhere. Welcome back to give us some perspective. On attachment styles, I spoke with Jennifer layer, a marriage and family therapist who specializes in educating couples on the relationship skills they need to build a solid, connected and loving partnership. I believe that even if you haven’t found your person yet, it’s really important for you to hear what Jennifer has to say, so that you can build the relationship on this same strong foundation for the future. Here’s Jennifer on how her journey started.


Unknown Speaker  10:28  

Well, specifically, my family of origin, my mother was very probably on the autistic spectrum. So she was very unable to be emotional. And my father had a lot of rage issues. So I grew up really, like I grew up in a family that didn’t hug didn’t say, I love you, none of that. I the first time I one of my parents said, I love you to me, was probably in my early 20s. So I went out into the world very hungry for love. And that hunger, it makes you accept things that are not acceptable.


Damona  10:58  

Yeah, I want to dive into that. Because I think some people might be able to relate to this. I I didn’t have that experience. But I wonder, did you look at TV shows and movies and how other people related and then compare your family relationships to that and say, Wait, what’s going on?


Unknown Speaker  11:17  

You know, we must have watched some of those shows that, to me felt a surreal, like, like the Leave it to Beaver show. Do you remember that? Yeah. Yeah. And they didn’t really grab onto me because it didn’t feel very real to me. So I didn’t attach to the shows. I did a lot of reading of books, because that got me into other realities.


Damona  11:38  

But do you think that, like, Where did you get the idea that that the way that you had been brought up was not really in alignment with your nature? Like, do you think that there’s something innate, where we all we all crave that hug? Or that that touch or someone saying I love you? Or is that something that’s like, nurtured


Unknown Speaker  12:02  

as someone who always brought home the hurt birds and the hurt cats and the hurt dogs and nurtured them. So I know that was part of my nature, not not necessarily nurture. And I think some people, you know, there’s a range, but I think everybody has this need to connect, unless your caregiver was dangerous when you were an infant, that could really mess up that need to nurture and be nurtured.


Damona  12:27  

Beginning at birth, we learn how to form emotional bonds with other people. Attachment theory is born out of the idea that the first 10 months of our social development will inform how we create relationships for the rest of our lives. And it’s all very complex, and depends on a lot of different factors, ranging from the quality of your caregiving, the opportunities, you have to create attachments, and even the way you were fed as a child. But for now, Jennifer gives us an overview of attachment styles. So hopefully you can learn a little bit and then do some research and dive deeper. Can you just walk us through high level what the different attachment styles are that that have shown up in your practice as a therapist? And what they what they mean for your relationships, your romantic relationships?


Unknown Speaker  13:20  

Right? Okay, just a brief first overview, the attachment style is something that develops, it’s part of your wiring, and it develops as an infant and baby in relation to how you were nurtured or not nurtured. If you had a parent or a nurturer, let’s say a caregiver. That was let’s say, they had schizophrenia. And they were really went to wheat to dark, dangerous places. And they were scary. As an infant with your need to attach, you have to figure out a way how to negotiate that before your nervous system has even developed. And so that causes a person who wants to attach doesn’t want to attach, wants to attach doesn’t want to attach because they don’t know how to deal with what got hardwired into them. If you were somebody who you’re a parent, let’s suppose you had a feeling or you cried in your parents, like stop that you’re not going to be sad, don’t cry, that’s going to create another kind of hardwiring of where that child or baby will probably get rid of their feelings and will probably cause possibly a more of a avoidant attachment where they they keep their distance from relationships, they still want them but they are more distance they would tend to withdraw from connection if you had a parent who was inconsistent and sometimes they and they miss a tuned a lot to you. You would be more there’d be a lot of things. They’re all creating anxiety, but this one is actually called anxious ambivalent. That’s what I was probably very anxious and clingy, because I want it to feel safe and I didn’t know how to do it in a relationship. And then of course, secure means you were Have you had a good enough caregiver. And so good enough means Enough of your needs are met, that you’re pretty functional. And not that you’re not functional and the other ones, but it’s a much steeper climb to get into a relationship that works. Because you’re going to be more reactive, you’re not going to have that safe foundation that lets you, you know, be there and receive and give, you’ll get triggered more easily. And the triggering causes conflict causes distance causes the, you know, the the repetitive cycles where one person’s always leaving the other person. So he’s pursuing more of that kind of thing.


Damona  15:36  

If that makes sense. It makes absolute sense. And I’m just sitting in the space of my listener for a moment. I know there are people thinking, you just you just nailed it. Jennifer, you just described me? Oh, no, I think I am I am anxious in my attachment style, I am clinging like, or maybe they might not define in that way. But what are some of the symptoms of that? First of all, like? How would that show up? Like you rush right into relationships? As soon as you meet, you want to see them every single day? And you give everything to them? And then what happens? And then if you’re in that place? Is it possible to shift it? And how do you do that?


Unknown Speaker  16:18  

So you’d be so yes. And yes. How to use me as an example. Because it’s great to have a concrete example, my earlier relationships, I was very needy, I would fall in love. And it was an instant merge. There wasn’t any space, there wasn’t any is this person good for me? What are this person’s characteristics? Whether they’re, you know, are they ethical, moral, there was none of that it was just oh, this feels good merge. So that that’s what happens when you come from a needy, more needy background. And that’s more anxious attachment style. What happened for me, and then of course, I accident when things got tough, because I had no skill set to deal with the difficulties, you know, things got tough. See, you later, find someone else who I could merge with, and which is a common pattern for people, you know, I, you know, had, I’m on my second marriage, my second marriage is really good. My first marriage was very difficult. And I did a lot of, you know, became a therapist did tons of training, did my own therapy, did my own couples counseling, I mean, you know, the gamut. And in the process of all the learning I did, I brought in, when I finally divorced, my first husband, I brought in a much different kind of partner, and we still had work to do, we had a couple years of pretty intense work to do, we did therapy, couples therapy every other week for about two years. And but we’ve been together 12, over approaching 13 years, and we have a great relationship with very, very, very little waves, very little conflict. So it does change, it changes because you learn, you have to find a way to link the cognitive brain to the emotional brain. And that often takes education practice. That’s why therapy works. You’re you’re being held, and you’re being your cognitive brain is being brought in to an emotional situation, and it starts integrating.


Damona  18:00  

I know we say on this podcast at least once a month. But therapy is a really great tool. If you’re looking for love, I can give you the steps and the strategies to date effectively. But a therapist is really going to help you dive deep into what you need to make a relationship work, especially if you’re noticing unhealthy patterns that keep arising in your relationships.


Unknown Speaker  18:24  

Because we all have history. And history impacts who we are, those patterns become places we go automatically, once we’re in a real relationship. If you can start unraveling that, that stuff, you can actually start changing it without actually being in a new relationship.


Damona  18:42  

That’s powerful. And I know it’s it’s painful for some people to examine those things. But I have been helped a lot by therapy. It’s no secret to the database audience that I’m a big fan of therapy in in tandem with the dating coaching work, because it is really two separate tracks there. There’s difference between dating strategy and and the work that you’re doing. But I’ve I’ve seen you say that, that there’s a relationship roadmap, and a great relationship is easy. If you know how. So for anyone that may be feeling like oh, I, I didn’t learn this in my family of origin. I haven’t gotten it right and relationships before. What is the roadmap? I’m sure they just want to write


Unknown Speaker  19:27  

are the steps Well, well, this the relationship roadmap map, I talked about this a little bit more for couples, but it’s good for singles to be aware of in here, you have to first make sure that you and the person have talked about that you’re on the same page in terms of dreams and goals and what makes each of you tick, like those are major things and people often get into relationships, and they haven’t really explored you know, why am I on the planet and why are you on the planet and what do we or what do we get To share in terms of what is our purpose as a couple, that’s a big deal. So that’s the first thing I always want people to look at. The second thing is our cycle. I call it the cycle. The cycle is James comes home late from work, Deborah has cooked dinner. And she’s pissed because James is late, and she starts slamming the pots around. James feels like he’s worked really hard all day. And why is his Deborah acting this way? So he gets mad, and he goes shut, he goes to his computer and ignores her, she gets mad or starts yelling at him, like you’re never home, you missed dinner, you didn’t call, he says, screw this, he leaves the house and goes off to the bar. Okay, so that’s a pattern. That’s a more major pattern, there’s much more minor patterns. So it’s understanding what is our relational pattern, when I feel this, I act this way, which triggers this person who then feels this and acts that way. And it’s like the dog chasing its tail. So you have to start deconstructing the pattern, because it’s the pattern, that’s the enemy, not the two people, both people are reacting because of feelings they have underneath. But neither of them are talking about their feelings. Deborah didn’t say, I worked really hard at making dinner for you. And it just makes me feel so abandoned when you don’t call and let me know you’re going to be late. And whatever I named the other guy, James, he didn’t say, he didn’t say, you know, I really, really am working, working this job because I want to support you, and I care about you. And I was just tired. And I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings. They don’t have to get down into what’s really going on. They react. So you’ve got to deconstruct the cycle of reactions.


Damona  21:43  

Yes, there’s definitely a difference between response and reaction. And I think sometimes that gets confused, like the reaction is immediate, like you haven’t processed it. But the response is more thoughtful, and usually incorporates the other person. So that was a great example, just to just to bring the conversation to a close because I love this relationship roadmap. And I think it really does apply to people who are currently in a relationship or those who want to build a, a new relationship that’s maybe healthier than one they’ve had in the past. Can you tell us some some of the some of the hallmarks of a successful relationship I hear all the time from people, they’re like, well, I like him, but like, I don’t know, how do I know if he’s the one or feels like nothing’s, it’s not that exciting, it feels like nothing’s really going on. Because we are so addicted to a lot of times to that, that, that kinetic energy that comes with fighting and the drama and all that. And in the absence of it, I find that a lot of times people question whether it’s really right. How do you know? Right?


Unknown Speaker  22:59  

Right. Okay. Well, I don’t know if anybody ever really knows you just take your you take your step forward and keep going. However, I remember when I met my, my current husband, and I had this enormous deep affection for him. And I knew that meant something, the drama piece is really interesting, because that all has to do with chemistry, like falling in love. So if you’re addicted to you know, dopamine or cocaine, you’re gonna have trouble in a more oxytocin based relationship, which is the cuddle hormone, long term relationships, you know, we’ll have excitement in them, but they’re not going to be, it’s not gonna be the same roller coaster ride. So if you want that, you’ve probably need to do serial relationships, because you’re you’re gonna have to keep a lot of fighting to keep that going. But long term relationships don’t drive on. Huge ups and downs.


Damona  23:54  

Mm hmm. Yes. I am really glad that you said that, because I have said it before. But as somebody who personally used to thrive on the up and down, that was very much like peaks and valleys, and has moved into a secure, grounded relationship. I took your quiz, I think we’re doing okay, I took your quiz that we can sell calm. I think we’re doing all right. But you know, I also think that every relationship can be improved. And that’s why I think it’s a great idea, even throughout relationships to continue to have therapy either as a couple or individually and to continue to have these difficult conversations is it’s not easy. It is easy. But it does require a level of vulnerability as you said, yet some some of us haven’t. haven’t gone through before. I certainly hadn’t before. Before my husband but it’s so sweet. It’s so sweet. Yeah,


Unknown Speaker  24:53  

yeah, yeah, it is. And also really, life always throws and challenges so there’s always gonna be times that are like Difficult where where things get triggered and you want to be able to have a base where you can talk about that stuff and work it out and not have it throw your relationship off for very long. I mean, for an hour’s okay, but not for two weeks.


Damona  25:12  

Yeah. So yeah, well, I know with the tools that you offer in your therapy, as well as that we can sell calm and on the forthcoming app. I know you’ll be helping people through that part of the relationship evolution. So thank you so much for being here. Jennifer, layer lmft. Thank you so much for being with us on de tomates.


Unknown Speaker  25:36  

Thank you. It’s great.


Damona  25:38  

I hope my conversation with Jennifer gave you some clarity on the way that we form relationships, and will help you on your journey to find love, or to deepen the relationship that you’re already in. Watch out for Jennifer’s upcoming relationship app, we can style launching this spring. I’ll also drop a link to the quiz we talked about in the show notes. Your questions are coming right up after the break. So don’t go anywhere. Knock knock. Who’s there? Dear, dear, dear demona, time for your questions.


Unknown Speaker  26:10  

damona help me.


Damona  26:12  

Thank you for letting me be corny for a second. This first question comes to us from Lauren on Instagram. She says what do you do if one person enjoys giving gifts, while the other one finds it hard to do because they feel they’re bad at giving gifts. Like I’m good at being creative with my gifts because they are meaningful. However, I noticed men struggle because their gifts are always practical. Oh, Lauren, I understand I feel your pain. I actually, when we’re talking about the love languages, for those who don’t know about the love languages. This is something developed by Gary Chapman, there’s a book on it. There’s a website on the love languages, you can google it if you want to know what your love languages, but basically, it’s how you give and receive love. And you might be in an amazing relationship where you don’t feel loved. Because the other person is speaking a different language and, and receiving gifts is one of those love languages. But see, giving gifts might not be that person’s love language, even if you need to receive gifts to feel their love. So what does this all come down to? What we’ve been talking about all episode communication, of course. And, look, I said this in my LA Times column A couple weeks ago and Dear demona, the print version, men are not known for their subtle mind reading abilities. And I know we have a lot of guys listening to that are like, Huh, honey, just tell me Just tell me what you want to say like get is. If you want something specific. And you don’t feel like you’re getting it, I would recommend honestly just create like an Amazon list and say, Oh, honey, I have all these I just decided to create a wish list of all the things that I might want just to jog your memory The next time we have a special occasion. And then he knows it’s there. And he doesn’t have to try to guess what you might want. Because what you feel as meaningful, might not resonate as meaningful for him. And there are definitely guys that give non practical gifts, it sounds like the person that you’re with, or maybe the people you’ve been with in the past have been very literal and very practical. So I would say don’t make him guess at it. If If receiving that gift is the way that you’re going to feel loved. If you want to inspire him to try something a little bit different, maybe be a little bit more intuitive. See what happens if you give him a more intuitive gift, kind of on the lines of what you’d like to receive. And then here’s the here’s the part, that’s going to be a flip for you see how he actually responds because sometimes we’ll go through all of this trouble. And we will design something will create something, we’ll buy something that we think the other person would want because it’s something that we want, and it doesn’t always land for them in the same way and it can actually even make them feel bad because their brain doesn’t work in the same way and you just don’t want to set yourself up for that. So let’s just be direct, let’s just be direct, and tell our partner how they can show up for us. And if it’s in gifts, then just basically give him a kind of like, you know, it’s like go karts, give him the guardrails, you can’t go off the track, but then let him have enough space where he can drive in the middle and and have a little bit of freedom there. And then Lauren, the other part for you is to do some active listening around what he needs. Because it’s possible he might have a different love language and might not be seeing his love language met in the relationship just yet. So there are plenty of opportunities for learning and growth in your relationship. And I’m glad that you’re willing to ask the question because it means that you really want to show up in a big way for your partner, and feel that deeper kind of love that Jennifer and I were talking


Unknown Speaker  30:35  

about. Next, we


Damona  30:37  

have a voice memo sent in on Instagram.


Unknown Speaker  30:41  

Hi, Dimona, a few weeks ago, you talked about the texting trap, which I totally agree with is an issue and I’ve witnessed it firsthand. And with others, I think it’s even worse during social distance dating right now. So I was wondering if you have any suggestions on talking points for what to do? What to say when you see the trap coming? The what I’ve tried so far hasn’t really worked? It’s it seems it’s hard to not make it personal to not take it personally, that kind of thing. So if you have any advice on like what to say to hopefully be more successful in that I would appreciate it. Thanks.


Damona  31:22  

Oh, the texting trap. That’s a doozy ain’t it? Yes, texting trap is basically when you are stuck in this back and forth text station ship that doesn’t seem to actually move offline, whether it be to a phone call, or a virtual date, or an IRL date. And the texting trap will suck you in as long as you allow it to. And there are plenty of people out here that are bored A F in the pandemic. And they are like, this is fine with me, I don’t really need to meet this person. I just need to feel like somebody cares. And I need to be entertained. And let’s just stay in this tech station ship for as long as we possibly can. And I don’t know about you, but I don’t really have the time for that. I’m assuming that you don’t either. So I would say, to get out of this texting trap, you basically draw a hard line do not reveal information. If you’ve past that point where you feel like you should have met up by now. Don’t keep revealing information, say Well, I’d love to tell you about that. And the next time I see you face to face, or Well, I’ll have to just tell you about that when we finally have a virtual date, and then just leave it there, just leave it leave that big gap wide out in the open. Okay, because then they have a choice, they can either step into that void that you’ve created and say, Oh, I’d really like to know what she had to say. Or I’d really love to meet her in person, I was just kind of scared. But it sounds like she’s saying that she wants to meet up. Or they will let that space fester and continue to grow and grow and let you know that they were one of the time wasters and you don’t have time for that. So that’s the best way to get out of the texting trap. As far as the emotional effect of it, it’s really, really important to not get attached to the outcome when you’re in the early phase of dating. Like, you’re just you’re just you’re just seeing what sticks in the beginning. You’re just making connections, having conversations, seeing what’s up, but you cannot get attached to someone over text. And that could be a sign that you’re actually you are in the texting trap, and you’re spending too much time trying to get to know them over text and trying to do that filtering, without actually hearing their voice or seeing them face to face. And it’s amazing how much more you can tell. If you stop revealing information over text or x asking information over text people will tell me like well, I need to like vet them to make sure it’s worth a date. If you have enough curiosity there you think to fuel a first date, whether it be a phone call a virtual date, or a social distance date. Just go for that. Because I guarantee you if you actually add up the time that you spend texting this person, you’re not actually saving any time you can learn a lot more having that synchronous real time conversation with them. So I would really challenge yourself to truncate that the texting, texting time. No more than a week, a week Max, but I used to say three exchanges. So that’s a text thread. Or even like a longer chunk email. That’s not that’s not very many exchanges, but it’s like three exchanges Max and then timeline wise. It shouldn’t be going over a week before you move to that next phase, be it a phone call, get yourself a text now. Alternate phone number just for dating, if you’re worried about giving your phone number out, and then you can really see what you’re dealing with. You can see if this person is interested in showing up for you, or if they are just looking for something to do. Those are the questions for this week. I want to know what your question is. Did you know you can DM me your question on Instagram? Like that last question. Well, you can you can just leave me a voice memo right there or you can give me a call and leave it on my voicemail 424-246-6255


I hope you enjoyed Episode 349 of dates and mates. Don’t forget to check out the episode recap at dates and mates comm where we will put all of the links to the dating dish stories and our special offers from our show sponsors. Next week, you may have noticed I said this was Episode 349. So next week, what does that mean? 350. And I’m super excited to announce that we’ll be doing a roundtable on the future of dating. I did a future of dating predictions on my own last year. Some of them very shockingly came true very quickly. Like I said the rise of video chat dating will be upon us. And here we are, but I want to know what some of my friends and fellow dating experts have to say and what they think will be coming our way for the rest of 2021. So I’ll be joined by both Jonathan asla and Francesca hoagie. They are two fan favorite dates and maids guests. And I’m so excited they will be here with me to debate the future of dating. Until next week. I wish you a very

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