This is the 350th episode of Dates & Mates!!! What better way to celebrate the past than to look to the future?

With a lot up in the air around us, the future of dating appears a little uncertain. Across the board, dating coaches are seeing mixed results and a lot of confusion around the new timelines in dating.


So today we’re getting clear on what’s in store for love this year. Damona welcomes two of our very favorite love coaches – Jonathan Aslay and Francesca Hogi.

Francesca Hogi is a love and life coach for extraordinary people who happen to be single. She’s really big on teaching people to ditch the fairytale and to find unique opportunities to find love. She’s been on the Today Show, she was a 2 time contestant on Survivor and now she’s pretty much the Queen of the Clubhouse App

Jonathon Aslay is America’s Leading Mid-Life Dating and Relationship Coach. Jonathon has taught hundreds of his client’s “purposeful dating” using his proven coaching methods. He’s authored many books on love and self-love, he’s been on NBC, ABC, CBS, and more plus he’s slaying the game on Youtube.

And you KNOW we needed to hear their takes on the week’s headlines:



(6:30) The new ‘Minister of Loneliness’

Insider reports that Japan appoints a new ‘Minister of Loneliness’ after the country’s suicide rates increase – especially amongst women. While they don’t see the American government appointing an official like this any time in the near future, Damona, Francesca and Jonathon all agree that something needs to be done about the collective loneliness the world is seeing right now.


(11:00) The hottest day for dating

Things are looking up in the UK! Boris Johnson has announced that he plans for every adult in the UK to receive the COVID vaccine by July 31st. Even more exciting, OkCupid predicts that August 1st will be the hottest day for dating. Damona, Jonathon, and Francesca discuss.



Damona, Jonathon, and Francesca have lots of thoughts on the current state of affairs plus the future of love:

(15:30) Can a real connection thrive right now? Jonathon’s tips to avoid ‘false familiarity’

(21:00) Why this has been a good year for relationships: Franny sees a shift toward more dating profile honesty and getting better at prioritising real relationships

(22:40) The emergence of the “New Dawn Dater”: Look out world, Bumble predicts an incoming wave of pandemic breakups which means more relationship-minded singles ready to mingle

(23:36) The power of intentional communication in dating

(25:00) How to make dating obstacles irrelevant

(28:45) Bumble prediction: people may be more inclined to date locally because we have all become more familiar with our local communities. Franny disagrees

(30:45) Lead with practicality in dating today

(38:07) Are men too visual and physical to fall in love online?



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DEAR DAMONA (*and Jonathon and Franny) (40:28)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • Julie W: I’ve been in a relationship for 1.5 years. In January I had to report back into school but my classes were still online. I go to school daily, sit in a room by myself, and come back home. My Girlfriend moved out in January because she was worried about her health. I’m so hurt and sad about it because I feel like I supported her through multiple back injuries and surgeries, in “sickness and health” and she isn’t supporting me with my career knowing I can’t change the fact that I have to report in. I think this is a huge red flag for our relationship as she will only see me now outside and we live in Chicago, it’s freezing outside. Do you think I’m hurt for the right reasons? I know health is important but this to me is not ok. I don’t know any other teachers who are going through something like this.
  • Jessica: What are your thoughts on the chances of meeting someone not using any apps? But then I wonder how in the heck do I meet quality men in these weird Covid times? I’m a 35yr old female that would like a committed, healthy long term relationship. I was married previously and have been divorced for almost 9 yrs. I noticed with dating I am having trouble meeting men that truly know who they are and what they want. With online dating many guys just wanted a text buddy, or I was just not attracted to anyone. I did go on some dates with a few guys over that few months, but cant help feeling like dating apps just aren’t for me. I’d love to know your thoughts on this.



Find Francesca on Instagram @DearFranny, she also runs a podcast by the same name! Be sure to follow her on Clubhouse – she hosts some of the best rooms on dating and love today.

Find Jonathon’s podcast, “What Would Love Do?” at jonathonaslay.com. Make sure to subscribe to his rapidly growing YouTube channel where he gives tons of weekly advice!



The app solves many major challenges that Damona’s clients face in dating today:

  • You can keep your main number private
  • You can separate your personal and dating contacts
  • Plus, It’s easy to use and FREE.

We are proud to collaborate with an app that empowers modern daters to feel safe and secure. If you want more information, check out Damona’s video on when to give out your number to people you meet on dating apps. Click here!



Download OkCupid today!

OkCupid is FAMOUS for matching people on what MATTERS MOST to them, from food to the type of relationship they want…to politics. They ask you really thoughtful and provoking questions to get to the heart of who you are and what type of person you’re looking for.

Are you missing out? Download OkCupid today!



Are you on the right dating app for your dating style? Find out with Damona’s quiz quiz.damonahoffman.com




Unknown Speaker  0:00  

It’s a tale as old as time. He’s handsome, debonair. She’s pretty and sweet. They lock eyes across the room.


Damona  0:10  

Okay, hold on. Honey, you need to get your facts straight. Finding love today is more like,


Unknown Speaker  0:17  

are we supposed to get me


Unknown Speaker  0:18  

a swipe that was invited to share my life? What


Unknown Speaker  0:21  

is this text


Unknown Speaker  0:21  



Damona  0:22  

Maybe he’s just not that intimate is this relationship going anywhere? You can keep waiting for the fairy tale, or you can get on board with the new rules of relationships. If you’ve read my advice in the LA Times, then you know, this ain’t your mama’s love advice. This is dates inmates with damona Hoffman Hello lovers Welcome to data Nate’s with damona Hoffman presented by text now, this is the 300 and 50th episode of the show. I cannot believe that this little idea that I had in my living room has turned into such an amazing community, and such an amazing place for me to connect with you and answer your love and relationship questions. For those of you who’ve been following the show for a while you might remember that almost a year ago on my 300th episode, I gave my first masterclass on my predictions for the future of dating. And then just two weeks later, we went into lockdown and the entire dating landscape was turned upside down forever. Just a little recap on some of the dating trends that I talked about. And I expected to see out of 2020 and beyond, we touched on feminism and equality partnerships. And interestingly, I think we’re seeing more of that as people are at home with their partners and looking for the workload to be shared. I think some of that is coming to pass. We talked about race. And if you remember, this is before the protests and the death of George Floyd, which really have changed the conversation completely for me as a woman of color. And I know for many of you, but I talked about people being more open to dating others of different races. I think that is also happening. We talked about video dating, and how that is it was a feature that a lot of the apps were using. And boy, I think I don’t need to tell you how that’s taken off. Now. I also talked about the binary being behind us and the fluidity of gender identity. And we’ve certainly made strides on that. We also got really practical about dating apps, I was seeing a lot of dating fatigue, and predicted that people would start to use fewer apps, but that some of these apps would combine features. And you may be noticing this in some of the apps that you’re using, they’re starting to look more and more alike. But one really important thing that I said was that in relationships, it’s vital that we are connecting to each other in the now not over text, which can be time shifted not only over technology, but through direct in person human connection. And that’s the through line here that is still true to this day, we still crave connection. And even though it looks a little bit different in the way that we are talking to one another whether you’re you’re texting or voice memo weighing or talking to one another on zoom or FaceTime. The human connection is what drives us all. So here we are on the 300 and 50th episode and we’re going to look to the future one more time. And hopefully things will look quite quite different than they do today. And I’ve brought two of my dearest friends in the love business back for another episode Jonathan asla and Francesca hoagie. Francesca is a love and life coach for extraordinary people who just happened to be single. She is really big on teaching people to ditch the fairytale, something you’ve heard from me as well and find unique opportunities to find love. You’ve seen her on the Today show she was a two time contestant on the TV show survivor. And now she’s pretty much the queen of the clubhouse app. Jonathan asla is America’s leading midlife dating and relationship coach Jonathan has taught hundreds of clients purposeful dating. Using his proven coaching methods. He’s authored many books on love and self love, especially. He’s been seen on NBC, ABC, CBS and more. Plus he is slaying the game on YouTube. And I’m so excited. They are both coming here today to make some of their own predictions on love. We’ll also talk about the headlines together like how the newest Japanese official might be able to help you with your love life and will reveal Okay, Cupid’s official forecasted hottest day of dating for the year. And then we’ll get into the future of love. And then answer your questions in dear Dimona, well today dear damona dear friend and dear Jonathan And does in sickness and in health apply to COVID exposure? And can you meet someone off of the dating apps today? All that more on today’s dates and mates? Please help me give big smooches to my friends Jonathan Astley and Francesca hoagie. Hey, it’s


Unknown Speaker  5:18  

a Mona.


Unknown Speaker  5:19  



Unknown Speaker  5:23  

Congratulations to Mona.


Damona  5:26  

Oh my gosh, girl, you know, I bet


Unknown Speaker  5:30  

you’re a workaholic. That


Damona  5:31  

is true. That is true. And I have I have the wrinkles to prove it. But you know, I love making the show. I love because I think actually the show brought both of you into my life, originally, as guests, you both been on multiple times. And I love the conversations that we have around dating and relationships, and, and everything else as well. I really wanted to hear your insights, because we’re in an unprecedented time. I mean, I hate saying that. But it isn’t unprecedented time. And people need help, and we need to help people navigate through it. But first, of course, we got to kick it off with these headlines, these dating dish. People are lonely. It’s no, it’s no surprise. But there’s actually now a new position in Japan, they they appointed a minister of loneliness this month to help reduce isolation, social isolation, and loneliness. And they were saying, you know, particularly this is really important among women, they’re seeing an increase in suicide rates. There’s a lot of people who are living alone. And like the pandemic, a no joke, no joke. I don’t think like I don’t see Joe Biden appointing a minister of loneliness. But frannie, what do you think we can take away from what Japan is doing? Yeah, well, first of all, I


Unknown Speaker  6:55  

think it’s amazing that Japan has done that. And I think every government needs to do that. And we just in general need to be more proactive about dealing with mental health issues. And especially because we are in a pandemic, and especially because people are so lonely and so isolated. And so I think that it’s great that they’re doing it. And I think that hopefully it gives people who are struggling with a lot of feelings of loneliness and isolation right now. Some validation, right? Like, okay, I’m not alone, there’s something wrong with me, you know, you have mental health challenges, which everyone has to some extent. And I think we’ve all traumatized by this pandemic, we’ve all been isolated. A lot of us have washed people in, you know, so there’s a lot going on, emotionally right now. And it can feel overwhelming. And to just know, like, Oh, I’m not the only person who’s dealing with that it’s so serious that Japan, the Government of Japan, actually appointed a minister to deal with this. So I think it’s a great move. And I hope that I hope that others follow suit, because we just need to have a larger conversation about mental health in general. And and in addition to thinking about, okay, how are we going to help people keep their businesses going and pay their rent, which is obviously critical that we also can’t forget about how are we going to help people still feel less lonely, to feel less isolated, and to deal with all of the mental health challenges that are rising, especially that are exacerbated by the pandemic?


Damona  8:20  

Absolutely. And Jonathan, I know this is something that you deal with, on your podcast, the topic of your podcast, you know, what would self love do? What does self love do when you are feeling that way, and you’re feeling like you’re not being seen and heard the way that this government is acknowledging the Japanese residents.


Unknown Speaker  8:39  

So I have a slightly different take on this, because I think we need less government involved and in just in general. So as much as I love the idea of an ambassador of loneliness, our real issue is, especially here in the United States, is that we have this kind of this philosophy that, that as soon as a child is 18, they should individually wait and leave the home. And this has been going on since roughly the baby boom generation. So what’s happened is we are a society of isolationist, because we’re literally told to get out of the house and make your own way. Whereas in other countries, family unit is so important to keep close knit because when you’re in part of a community, when you’re part of a tribe, you feel less lonely. So I really go back to what you’re not that this is politics based, but I love what Hillary Clinton said 20 years ago, it takes a village. And so it starts from within, to build a tribe. And so actually, I wrote a book called What the heck is self love anyway, and one of the chapters is centered around building your tribe, building your community. And so my invitation is self This is what love would do is to build your tribe and build those people around you start from where Then, because government can’t do much for you. It starts from self and then circle around you. So we’re all part of a tribe. You know, we’re part of the homie hookup tribe as


Damona  10:11  

we have. It’s not like, it’s probably not like y’all are just like love coaches they get together and like,


Unknown Speaker  10:17  

I forgot about the term.


Unknown Speaker  10:22  

But that’s a perfect example, our mutual friend, Carol Allen started something and created a tribe. So my invitation for everyone is ask yourself, do I have a tribe? And if I, if I don’t, then let me begin a tribe. And if I do, then let me nurture the tribe, because that’s the antidote to inner suffering. From a loneliness perspective, is be surrounded by people you love. And I believe me, it is absolutely a challenge in a pandemic. And I certainly applaud Japan for doing that. But I’m saying I’d like to encourage everyone to do it for themselves, because that’s how we pay it forward, if you will.


Damona  11:00  

That’s a really good point. See, this is why I love talking to you, too. I mean, I really, I’m like, I can’t even really add anything to this except for to say that, I’m glad that you brought up community, Jonathan, because that is something we talked a few weeks ago about, about, you know, how to like, we actually talked about what is self love? And how to how, what kind of rituals Can you put in place to fill yourself up. And I said, Actually, the first thing you want to do is get in community. And Jonathan has a book on this topic, we’ll put a link in the show notes and everything. But you know that along with even the self talk, and the way that that you talk to yourself about the situation. So I was also glad that that friend of you brought up how just being acknowledged and being seen is such a part of that conversation to know that you’re not alone, and to not beat yourself up for feeling the way that you’re feeling. So let’s look forward to more positive times, hopefully, down the road, my friends at OkCupid just released their prediction, they say that August 1 is going to be the hottest online dating day of the year. Why? You ask because Prime Minister Boris Johnson said that all UK adults are going to get the first dose of the COVID-19 vaccine by July 31. Now, of course, just remember, you gotta wait, you got to get two doses to be fully covered. And then you have to wait at least two weeks after that before you start blending. But I know people summer the numbers are gonna go down, people gonna be wiling out. They’re gonna be out here and these post COVID streets trying to date. I know people are really looking forward to, to in person dates again. What do you think, Jonathan, about this, this date? And do you think it’s accurate based on the COVID vaccine rollout? Or do you think actually, we’re gonna start seeing people? Yeah, getting out there before then.


Unknown Speaker  12:59  

I don’t know if that’s if that’s actually going to happen. Because I’m not sure that 100% of a population, I’m not sure 100% of people want to actually get the vaccine. I know, there are plenty of people that are reluctant to do it. So but it and I do believe if we get to a 70 or 80% level, it’s gonna certainly make a big difference in the dating realm as well, because there’s going to be less apprehension to go out and meet someone, although I’m going to share with you all sup, y’all something. So like, I’ve been in such heightened anxiety over just some little like, I had a scratchy throat, you know, a couple about a month ago. And I’m like, do I have COVID? Do I have a runny nose with COVID? So it’ll be nice. I’d like to think and if that happens by August 1, that I’m no longer afraid. That’s what I’m looking at? Well, I no longer be afraid of this. And that’s my take on it if there’s any value in that.


Damona  13:59  

There’s definite value. And I think yeah, we hit we’ve sort of under I guess, maybe on the show, I haven’t really addressed the anxiety factor of just what that constant vigilance does to you. frannie I want to bring you into the conversation. What do you think about this date? Or about the anxiety element in dating and what are what do you think about this summer? So prediction for the hottest online dating day?


Unknown Speaker  14:28  

Yeah, well, if the UK can succeed and getting everyone or most everyone vaccinated by that date, I agree that people are going to be in the streets. People been home, alone cooped up, totally anxious, stressed out worried about so many things, health, family, society, livelihood, and I think everyone is dying for at least I mean, even people who are in relationships, I mean, I mean, I’m gonna speak for you to Mona, but we’re like, okay, we were good for the first like 11 months. Now we’re like, okay, we need to ask some other people in the mix here, like we need to get out into the world, you know. So it’s just a really, really, there’s so much pent up that I think that we are going to see people really in the streets as soon as they can. Now, I also think that in the US where we’re certainly not going to have 100% vaccination rate by August, or maybe ever, people are still going to be out, because again, people have been cooped up, and everybody needs that release. So once the weather is warm, and people can do socially distance, and of course, there’ll be people who won’t be doing socially distance. But hopefully, even if you’re doing it safely, it’s going to become a lot easier to date as soon as summer hits. So it won’t, it’ll be before August, it’ll be as soon as the weather is warm enough for people to be out and people will be out.


Damona  15:47  

Okay, I want to hear much more about what you think people will be doing this summer and beyond, we’re gonna take a quick break, but there’ll be more of the future of dating right after this. Welcome back to dates and mates, I am here with Francesca hoagie and Jonathan Astley. And we are doing the 300 and 50th episode of this show, talking about the future of dating. So we talked a little bit about when the summer heads and COVID cases drop that people are going to be out in these dating streets. But the biggest change that I have seen, since the beginning of the pandemic is that I used to have this system that was very predictable, like, I could tell you use IG, he’s gonna zag, you’re gonna do this. And within six weeks, you’re gonna be in a relationship, and it was totally predictable. And I swear, I was like the Nostradamus of dating. But the biggest change for me has been that I cannot predictably tell you what somebody is going to do anymore within the pandemic, because I think, like, people don’t really know what they’re gonna do. It’s like, like you were saying before the break, Jonathan, there’s so much anxiety and fear and uncertainty that a lot of these folks are just living moment to moment. What did you see over the last year as the pandemic has, you know, surged and had recessions? And how have all these changes affected what’s coming up for your clients and dating coaching?


Unknown Speaker  17:19  

So what’s interesting, I remember when the pandemic first happened, if you will, all of a sudden, all the dating coaches is like, luckily, you can start doing zoom dates. And you’ll get, you know, you can have your wine and cheese and get on zoom and connect with someone, you know, from a virtual perspective and how great this is going to be how you’re really getting at it. I know you


Damona  17:41  

talked about it, I still think it’s great, but go so


Unknown Speaker  17:44  

well. All right. So here’s my take. And I’m not a pessimist, but it feels like that’s the way I’m approaching what I’m about to share. So what I’ve seen, in fact, it was a video I just recorded for my YouTube channel, is we’re experiencing what I call false familiarity, false familiarity. What’s happening is there’s a lot of incessant communication via text messaging, and maybe zoom calls, and even telephone calls. And what’s actually not happening is face to face interaction. And so, so which is great, you can build up this virtual relationship with another person. But it’s not a real relationship until you’re actually doing things together. social activities, hobbies, mutual interest, spending time with family and friends, true team building things. So what’s happened because communication, I believe 80 90% of communication is nonverbal. So it’s your body language, it’s your pheromones, all these things. So what’s happened because a COVID has, I’ve noticed so many women, spending months and months and months communicating with men they’ve never met, and then it blows up for one reason, or they meet, and they have a short encounter, and then it doesn’t go anywhere. And so I’m more of a proponent of keep it short, keep it simple and try to meet as soon as possible. So what COVID has done is made people afraid to meet perfect fear of getting sick. But my friend Tripp Kramer says, it isn’t real until it’s real. And it isn’t real until you start doing social activities, hobbies, mutual interests, spending time with family and friends, traveling, being part of a team together, that’s when it becomes a real relationship. So what I’ve noticed is we have a lot of virtual and casual relationships, more so than ever before. That’s my take on it.


Unknown Speaker  19:42  

But Jonathan, what can people what are people supposed to do? It’s a pandemic, like it’s not like people it’s not like we just got in a bad habit if we don’t go on in person dates anymore. I mean, there’s, I think you have to you have to work within the parameters. But I also think and I’ve seen with, with some of my clients is that they’ve had I have appreciated the fact that they’ve had to take more time to get to know someone, because it’s allowed them to not maybe just like, do the thing where they normally would have done, which is like, meet really quickly and have a few drinks. And then like, maybe move too quickly, and maybe, you know, like, the promotions and all that, you know, it’s like they can get really distracted. And I’ve also seen people do really incredibly inventive things in order to connect and to and to, you know, to deal with the fact that they are physically separated. I mean, everything from sending each other groceries and like cooking, you know, like cooking together over zoom to go into deciding, like, okay, you pick the recipe for dinner this week. And then they literally like go on FaceTime to the store together, and they go shopping together, and then they cook together. And then they eat together. And it’s like, obviously, it’s not it’s not an exact substitute for being in person, but you do still eat, there’s still ways to be creative about it. You know, I I know, people that clients who’ve done you know, they’ve gone on hikes like, I mean, even especially distance hikes, but also even when there’s someone’s at a different location. It’s like, like, hey, let’s just show me your neighborhood. And they just like, go on a FaceTime date, and they take a walk around each other’s neighborhood like, you know, so there’s ways to like, be more inventive. And I’ve actually, I wrote an article about this for Forbes at the end in December about how this has been a great year for people looking for relationships, because there’s so many people who got into relationships, and there’s so and we have a lot of data. And I know, you know, this Dimona, like people are being more honest in their profiles, people are, have reprioritize a lot of people who are looking for something casual, now they’re being you know, they’re being more intentional, and they’re saying it upfront. So there is there’s, there’s good sides of it as well. And I think it’s more important than ever to really make sure that you’re engaging intention and dating skill because it’s, it’s always easy to get sucked into now you’ve got a texting boyfriend, or you got a FaceTime boyfriend for months, even pre pandemic, people did that. So, you know, so there’s so it’s, it’s, it’s like, if you’re just gonna go and be like, Okay, this person keeps texting me. And now it’s been months like, yeah, then you’re, you’re likely to get in a situation where now you’re like, Oh, yeah, yeah, I was getting kind of addicted to the comfort and the familiarity and that false sense of intimacy. But like, you know what I’m saying. So I still think that there’s ways to, and we see it happening every day. We see couples finding love every day during this pandemic, so,


Unknown Speaker  22:22  

and people have met during the pandemic, too, by the way, it’s not like, yeah, I mean, there have been people that said, You know what, I’ll meet you tomorrow kind of thing. So


Unknown Speaker  22:30  

yeah, I have any clients who go on dates. There’s lots of ways to do socialists and states, but it’s not. That’s the other thing. It’s not like, people are only doing that. But I’m saying like, that’s, there’s, there’s ways to work around it. Yeah.


Damona  22:40  

Okay. So let me back this up with some stats of what what what you just said, and some stats that I saw, actually from Bumble, they said, they’re seeing a trend of slow dating. And I believe it’s just from a survey that they did of their users, two and five people says, say that they will continue to take longer to get to know each other. But then they also said that there’s the emergence of the, quote, new dawn data, and they estimate that one fifth of couples will break up because of the pandemic and 2021. So I don’t know if that’s like new couples that were already together or just because of the intensity of the pandemic. But I’m kind of curious, as we’re talking about the future of dating, what we think the future will hold, like, Jonathan, will people be? will people be more comfortable with the video chat dating? And do you think it will lead to laziness? Or do you think it’s actually something that people will use as a more useful tool and


Unknown Speaker  23:34  

screening people


Unknown Speaker  23:34  

going forward? Well, it’s


Unknown Speaker  23:36  

interesting. So you make two great points, is it going to be this or that kind of thing? And it’s going to be both, you know, it’s going to be both? I think, what’s most important, and one of the reasons why I’m a dating coach, and I work with women in particular, helping them understand men, from the male perspective, is I’m all about being intentional, just like what Franny was talking about earlier, being intentional in the process being purposeful, and I’m all about vetting the person sooner rather than later. And what’s happening. So, you know, my criticism earlier was is really more centered around people who date unconsciously, very much at the surface level, the conversations aren’t very deep, it’s like the best they can say is, Hey, how’s it going? Hope you have a good day. You know, I had one woman Tell me, she spoke to a guy for six months. And that was all he’d send on a text message. I’m like, and she thought he was in a relationship. And so that’s my criticism, why? I’m all about being intentional ask really good, honest, sincere from the heart type of questions to see if there’s alignment with one another. So the the, this platform actually gives us that opportunity. The sad part is most people’s communication skills are so weak, that they’re not really good at actually getting to know another human being. That’s Where I see is the challenge. And that’s where coaches like, you know, us three are here to help encourage people to go deeper than just the surface. And that’s what I that’s my intention.


Unknown Speaker  25:18  

I’m all about it, I’m all about that deeper level level work. And that’s the thing, I think, you know, my approach is, there’s always going to be obstacles, whether it’s even if there wasn’t a pandemic, there’s still gonna be obstacles, you might, you know, have a demanding job, you might have geographic challenges, you might have family obligations, you might have health challenges, you might, there’s always going to be things that come up that make dating connecting a little bit more challenging, but I’m all about making those obstacles irrelevant. And the only way you can make those irrelevant is by going deeper, and getting really clear. And really making sure that your beliefs are aligned with what you want, and everything I mean, because if you’re going through the motions of dating, I don’t care whether there’s a pandemic or not, but fundamentally, you’re not clear on what you want, you’re not clear on what you need, forget about just what you want, but what you actually need, if you’re not clear about what you’re bringing to the table, and how you’re showing up and your level of vulnerability, and all of those things, and you’re not clear about what you believe is actually possible for you. Because if you don’t believe that, it’s possible for you to have the love that you want to have, like, you’re going to make yourself right about that. That’s what we all do. As humans, we want to be right about what we believe more than we want to be happy. And that’s something that’s that’s just human psychology, that’s just on a subconscious level and your mind you can going, I want love, no, I want love, I’m going to be on every app, I’m going to do all the things. But if in your heart, you’re like, you’re never gonna have it. It’s gonna be really hard for you. So I’m just like, kind of stopping and taking stock of like, Okay, what is my intention here? Right? How am I showing up? What do I need? How am I even? What is the criteria I’m using to even select the people that I’m dating, right? All these questions that are so foundational, from our perspective, this is what we do. But it’s very easy to go through dating and just think like, I’m just gonna, hopefully match with somebody who’s really attractive, and they’re gonna like me, and everything’s gonna work out. And that’s kind of how most people approach dating.


Damona  27:14  

Yeah, it has been looking at the future of, of dating. It’s interesting when you look at different stats and different different areas of different behaviors. Because from OkCupid, I’ve been hearing that people are more open to dating outside of their, their geographic area, all three of us happen to be in Los Angeles. I don’t know why this is like the dating coach mecca of the world.


Unknown Speaker  27:40  

of dating coaches.


Damona  27:42  

But I know in LA, I would always hear from people like, Oh, no, he’s like, five miles away, it’ll take me 45 minutes in traffic.


Unknown Speaker  27:51  

I even did the same thing.


Unknown Speaker  27:53  

For five miles away.


Unknown Speaker  27:55  

You live out there, my


Unknown Speaker  27:56  

did the same thing.


Damona  27:58  

But like my husband, when I met him, he lived in Santa Monica, I lived in West Hollywood, which you know, as the crow flies is like, I don’t know what 10 miles maybe. But it could take an hour. And like we would say it was a long distance relationship. And even people were like, I can’t even believe you would date someone that far away. And I’m like, what, like, if the love of your life is everything that you’re looking for? And they’re just like, five miles outside of your range? Are you really going to put your foot down about that. And because a lot of people do


Unknown Speaker  28:32  

it for love, they’re not really ready for how they feel.


Damona  28:35  

we tell ourselves stories about what’s important, but because now we have virtual dates are the entry point. And for some people the primary mode of dating right now with Ok, Cupid. And in my own client base, I’m seeing that people are being more open to dating outside of their normal geographic area. Looking at these stats from Bumble, they say in a prediction that post lockdown, people are more inclined to date locally since we become more familiar with local communities.


Unknown Speaker  29:07  

Yeah, I saw that Bumble stat as well. What do you think? I disagree with that? I think that would be because first of all, now we’ve all gotten more comfortable. Even video dating is a good example. Video dating is something that has been around since before match.com. Right? And it just never caught on. It just never caught on. And there have been so many different platforms, right? I


Damona  29:31  

know, by the way that the 300 300th episode where we did our last feature of dating, I said look out for video dating, this is before the pandemic, but look out for video dating, like that’s gonna be the wave of the future. So here,


Unknown Speaker  29:45  

Oracle you see or Okay, so


Unknown Speaker  29:47  

you’re a matchmaker and your Nostradamus.


Damona  29:52  

Give me your Oracle magnet because I know you got a little Samsung to frannie


Unknown Speaker  29:56  

so yeah, and so you’re right because is no one and the thing about video dating is like everyone used to like the idea of it because it’s like, oh, I get to see the person on video until they realize like, Oh, I have to be on video too, right? Like, so no one wanted to do it. But now everyone’s broken the seal, everyone’s gotten used to it, now it’s become normalized. So I do think that this is going to be video dating is going to stick around for the long haul. Because of that comfort level. And I think that because of the pandemic, because people got comfortable with the video, because many people are working remotely, not everybody’s going to be going back to an office, a lot of people who are living in big cities like LA and New York and London and places where they’re playing paying really high rents. And now that they’ve been trapped in their small expensive apartments, or homes per year, they’re like, I would move I you know, it’s people have different priorities now. So I think people are going to continue to be open to long distance relationships, because they are more flexible about their ability to move. Hmm,


Damona  30:56  

what do you think, Jonathan?


Unknown Speaker  30:58  

But the distance piece, it’s interesting, because I, I, it’s great that we can connect in this form. But ultimately, when you’re talking to somebody that there is distance, I think it’s critically important to eventually say, are we going to have a plan of how is this going to move from a long distance to being, you know, in the same proximity with one another, I think it’s important to discuss that sooner rather than later not to be benign to to have real conversations about the practicality. Because if your lifestyle is fixed, where you’re at, and someone else’s fixed, where they’re at, and even 30 miles, can be a challenge to blending lives with one another. So I think it’s important to have some really deep questions early, like what we talked about before, if you’re if you’re going to engage in a long distance connection,


Damona  31:54  

I fully agree with you on that. And I’m actually thinking about, like, I have a client that met through video dating. Gosh, I want to say I coached her it was over 10 years ago. And so it’s crazy how accurate some of the things I was telling her back then still are, like I was saying, you need just like you said, Jonathan, you need to be have a plan to be in the same place. Eventually, I said you need to gamify your date or like have some sort of a shared experience, like you said, Franny, like, you have to be a little bit more creative. And then the other thing that I’ll just add on to the wonderful points that you both just made is you have to you have to have things to look forward to together and planned activities. It can’t just become like, like, Oh, yeah, I’ll text you when I get home. And like, I feel like people slip into this very casual, like, take you for granted kind of status really quickly. And that is what will suck the magic out of any relationship. But particularly in a long distance relationship, whether it’s across town, or literally across the country, you almost have to manufacture that magic right now. So as we’re talking about manufacturing, the magic, I know a lot of my listeners are like, I want this to be my year, like I just came out of the hardest year of my life. And this is my year for love. What additional predictions do you have about any dating trends? Or tips do you have about how people can can proactively enter 2021 post pandemic dating with a different strategy and mindset beyond what we’ve already talked about? frannie Yeah.


Unknown Speaker  33:36  

Well, I know we’ve been talking a lot about video, but I’m very, very bullish on audio on social audio. I wrote an article about this about a month ago about all the people who were falling in love on clubhouse, which is an which is a social audio app. And it’s still in beta. So it’s not available to everyone yet, because you have to have an invite, and you have to have an iPhone, but it is expanding more and more. There’s 10 million people on the app, and it’s growing every day for my invite. You’re so welcome. You’re so welcome. And, and I’ve seen this happen in real time. Because there’s something about the nature of audio, when you don’t have the distraction of video and you’re in a place where it’s not a data. It’s not a dating website to be clear. You are in a clubhouse. clubhouse is not a dating app. But it is a place because you’re having these organic conversations about things that you’re interested in things that you’re passionate about. Things that you may be an expert in. Maybe just be curious about learning more. People are connecting in deeper ways. And I even find I mean, I’m not single, I’m in a relationship. I’m not looking for love. But even I’ve made friendships in that space that I’m like, I can’t believe the depth of this friendship from somebody who I’ve never even seen in person but we it’s just the power of hearing each other and hearing each other interact with people. So I’m very bullish on social audio. And there’s other platforms Mark Cuban has one that’s coming out. There’s there’s a Twitter has Twitter spaces, and they’re trying to compete in this audio space now and there’s their spam base, there’s a bunch of them popping up, and we’re gonna see more and more social audio, this is the big trend. And it’s only a matter of time until somebody actually builds a social audio dating app specifically. But right now, I actually think it’s great that they’re not specific dating apps, they’re just apps where people are connecting organically and you know, where people connect organically, some people are gonna find love. So I think we’re gonna see more of that.


Damona  35:32  

Thank you for bringing that up. And I also want to add on, I agree with you, as bullish as I am about video, I might even be more bullish about audio. And I mean, I think people have forgotten about the phone call, or the audio connection prior to the date leading up to the date, which is one of the reasons like the show is now presented by text now, because I want to encourage people to find that magic of just just conversation. Without like, there’s so much more that you add layer into it with video that can complicate things and is is something that in the world where you’re not able to, like get offline and move to a social distance date right away, that you might want to leave as the desert that you’re you’re leading up to throughout the the conversations you have on the way to that point, Jonathan, I don’t know, disagree, agree. Additional future. It’s


Unknown Speaker  36:33  

interesting, because a decade ago, I said, Facebook is a great way to meet people. And and that’s where I built my


Unknown Speaker  36:43  



Unknown Speaker  36:44  

Well, let’s think about this for a second. Because a you have potentially, you know, friends of friends type of thing. So there’s some familiarity, if you have mutual connections, maybe you’re posting on each other’s page, and you build up a relationship I’ve seen, I would say dozens of relationships have occurred from my Facebook page, I mean, couples who have met up through Facebook,


Damona  37:08  

and it’s very robust. And you should follow By the way,


Unknown Speaker  37:11  

yeah, so I’m a big proponent of this because it breaks. So in contrast to online dating, where it’s a total stranger 99 out of 100 times, or 99.9, out of 100 times, when you’re meeting through a social platform, you’re actually building some of that connection before you actually go out on a date. So I’m not sadly I’m not an iPhone. I’m an Android. So I don’t know about clubhouse yet. Everybody tells me I gotta get on clubhouse. Okay, so speaking as a man, the only man in the room here, um, we are visual creatures we need to see, you know. So I don’t know how it’s gonna work from the male perspective. Because we tend to fall in love through our eyes, not through our ears. So I don’t know, clubhouse well enough to know how it works. The men


Unknown Speaker  38:03  

are falling in love, too.


Unknown Speaker  38:04  

Are they interested?


Unknown Speaker  38:07  

That’s just my observation. I have no data, no experience on it. But I do know men tend to be more visual creatures. So we’re going to need that, you know, video or in person? Or at least a photo?


Unknown Speaker  38:20  

Yeah. Well, there is a photo to be clear, Jonathan. I mean, it’s not like, you know, I mean, there, there are not multiple photos on clubhouse, you only have your one profile photo, but it’s linked to your social media. So not that people are just like, they’re only speaking and they’re like, Oh, I know, I want to know what you look like, I’m just in love with your personality. Like, it’s not like that’s happening. It’s just that people are connecting. And people are connecting with people, they’re like, I this isn’t normally the kind of person I would connect with, or just for whatever reason, you know, I’m


Damona  38:46  

just gonna add one element that we haven’t really talked about that I feel like is a huge, huge barrier to connection. And that’s texting. And I think one of the reasons that maybe clubhouse works, because people have seen the photos, right, they’ve maybe like checked out your IGA. But then you can have real time conversation. And this is people love blaming dating apps for the downfall of dating. But I have said for a long time that it’s actually texting because we’ve shifted into only written time shifted communication. And if you’re not having synchronous communication where you can actually like I’m hearing both of you right now we’re reacting responding to one another. You can see how I think on my feet, you can feel that vibe. You cannot do it over text and I can’t ever text Yeah, filter complete. Yeah,


Unknown Speaker  39:34  

this is and I’m a big proponent of using voice recording when sometimes when you’re communicating I now I’m probably I would still I’m 90% text but I’m doing my best to shoot a voice message, you know, for someone so they can hear the voice. So it’s beyond just the words because my thumbs do a terrible job communicating what’s in here my heart. I just I’m not good at it with my thumbs. Much better at from an audio perspective. So a clubhouse would even be better. And certainly a video perspective and then eventually face to face.


Damona  40:09  

We will get there, we will get there. We’re gonna take a short break when we come back we have questions that have been submitted by our listeners that are right on time for the future of dating. All right, now it’s time for your favorite segment.


Unknown Speaker  40:27  

damona help me


Damona  40:28  

usually we call this segment, dear damona. But right now, it’s dear Dimona and frannie. And Jonathan, this question comes to us from Julie. She says I’ve been in a relationship for one and a half years. In January, I had to report back into school. She’s a teacher, but my classes were still online. I still had to go to school daily, sit in a room by myself and come back home. But my girlfriend moved out in January because she was worried about her health. I am so hurt and sad about it. Because I feel like I supported her through multiple back injuries. She says in surgeries in sickness and in health, and she isn’t supporting me with my career knowing that I can’t change the fact that I have to report in I think this is a huge red flag for our relationship. And she now will only see me outside, but we live in Chicago, it’s freezing outside. Do you think I’m hurt for the right reasons I know health is important. But This to me is not okay. Oh, Franny and Jonathan. They’ve been together a year and a half.


Unknown Speaker  41:30  

Yeah, and not great.


Damona  41:32  

What Tell me Tell me, what should you really be doing?


Unknown Speaker  41:35  

I mean, I would really, if it’s really the case that you are not coming into contact with people or you know, you’re sitting in an empty classroom, and you’re being safe when you you’re traveling. This seems like an excessive reaction if it was only about COVID. So I it to me, it feels like it’s a bit of an excuse. And there is something more going on here. So that’s what I would want to get to the bottom of because it just feels like if you’re really committed to a relationship, I know it’s a pandemic. I know. It’s tough. But you work around it. I mean, it’s not like it’s Ebola, right? Where it’s like it’s airborne. And if you’re anywhere near, you know what I’m saying, like, we can be safe enough. And it’s she’s sitting in an empty classroom every day. I think that that sounds like it was an excuse.


Damona  42:25  

But even if you’re not an empty classroom, eventually kids are going to start going back to school. And this this is we’re talking about the future of dating today. This is a future inevitability that we’re going to have to live with some level of risk. Like even if when we get the vaccine, there’s not 100% guarantee that the vaccine will protect us, we’re still going to have to wear masks, it’s still going to be a thing. So Jonathan, can you see any way forward for Julie and her girlfriend? If If she’s moved out? And she has this you were talking about anxiety earlier in the show? Sounds like your girlfriend has severe anxiety as well around this pandemic.


Unknown Speaker  43:05  

Yeah. So I tend to agree with Franny’s point of view on this, that there’s probably something else and but let’s for the moment, just say it’s this fear, this fear that surrounding all of us, didn’t exist a year ago, and yet people were dying of pneumonia, people were dying of respiratory disease, and we didn’t fear. So I think we have to, I’d like to, I can’t specifically speak for Julie because for her partner, it’s, it’s addressing the fear. And, and for some people, this requires, in my point of view, going into doing deep dive into personal development, self help and spiritual work, which I call self love work, to work on the fear. And because living in fear is not a healthy place to be, and if one is living in fear, they don’t tend to be a good partner, either.


Damona  44:04  

Right, right. And I see an element to where she’s connecting it to like, Well, I was there for her when she had surgeries and injuries. And now she’s not here for me, but but I’m


Unknown Speaker  44:15  

addressing her partner who’s in fear, not for joy, per se.


Damona  44:19  

Right. But I’m saying I think we I think she needs to kind of separate those two things. Because right, you can’t do things for your partner with the feeling that that is going on me now You reciprocate it. Yeah. You just do it because you want to do it and you want to be there for your partner. But yeah, separately, I agree with the two of you. This is a really big red flag and something that she like, I would not continue to just meet her outside in the snow. I would say this is our life, and we need to really sit down and work through this. Let’s move on to our second and final question of the episode. This comes to us from Jessica. She says what are your thoughts on the chances of meeting someone not using any apps that she says I’m a 35 year old female that would like a committed healthy, long term relationship. I think you’ve heard a story very similar to this, both of you. I was married previously and have been divorced for almost nine years. I noticed with dating, I’m having trouble meeting men that I truly know who they are and what they want. And with online dating, many guys just wanted a text buddy, or I just wasn’t attracted to anyone. I did go on some dates with a few guys over the last few months. But I can’t help feeling like dating apps just aren’t for me. Jonathan, I know you have something to say about Yeah.


Unknown Speaker  45:37  

So I’m, what’s interesting, because I’m hearing from many of my clients and followers, how they’re, they’re not using online dating as a medium to meet people. And they’re like, Well, how do I meet people, especially with pandemic and such? And, I mean, I’m gonna be, you know, real here for a moment, you know, unless, you know, if you’re at home all day long. I mean, unless the burglar that comes to steal your TV says, Hey, by the way, you’re cute. Would you like to go out on a date, it’s going to be hard to meet people. I’m being tongue in cheek here. I think this is really a great opportunity to work on oneself. Many people actually took the time during the pandemic, to not focus on dating, to really focus on their own, you know, self worth, self esteem, self confidence, and doing inner work during this time. I think that’s one of the benefits that can has come out of this for some people, not all, in fact, many have not because they’re, you know, they’re more focused on the fear and the loneliness. And I also say, it’s a great opportunity to work on oneself. So when things do open up, and you can meet someone organically, you’re in a much better position to be relationship ready. And that’s my invitation for those that are not out there being able to meet people organically. But I actually would love to hear your take on both your take on this.


Damona  47:05  

I’m gonna go to Franny for


Unknown Speaker  47:07  

so I definitely This is a big question. And I’m like, oh, wow, I feel like you should call Jonathan or damona or me or someone. But number one, just even the frustration, the level of frustration. That is Jessica. It is Jessica. Jessica is having on dating apps. It’s like that just tells me right there that your strategy, your approach online is not a good one. So there’s just there’s that but dating, dating apps can be more successful than what you’re describing. So I would imagine that like most people, you’re not going about it in the right way. So there’s that. But additionally, like I said before, there’s always a way to make any obstacle irrelevant. And even though it’s a pandemic, first of all, there’s still the internet in general, it’s not just about dating apps, it’s about wherever there are humans, there’s people that you could potentially connect with, and is to the extent that you are still out in the world. I mean, listen, you can still meet people, you can, it can happen, I met I mean, this granted, this was pre pandemic, but I met my boyfriend walking down the street in LA, I met him on a street corner, you know, tahini and sunset, for those who are curious.


Damona  48:17  

And you go back to that episode, one the story on our last episode together, and it’s a fabulous story that I think will inspire a lot of people. But I digress.


Unknown Speaker  48:26  

So my point is that, like, you know, even though you’re you can’t go out and do the things that you normally do and the ways that you do, I would encourage Jessica and anyone just to embrace the belief that anytime you leave your house, you have the potential to meet someone special because it’s true. And if you have that mindset, you have that approach, then you can make that happen. And then also, I would say, to just think of more creative ways that you can connect with people. But I agree with also with Jonathan, and don’t say like, you know, don’t date until the pandemics over No, you can still date and dating in and of itself is a really amazing process. And you can learn so much about yourself, especially when you’re doing it intentionally. And you, you know that you develop so many skills through dating that you actually need for the relationship to last like communication and compromise and flirting and all sorts of things.


Damona  49:14  

I agree with everything you both have said I will add on. I will see your online dating tips and raise you a I get a i a big question mark goes up for me when people say like I don’t want to meet somebody on the apps and and I wonder if it’s about the experience that they’re having or about the story that they’re telling themselves about like this. This is challenging for me, because of dating apps. And just as frannie just said, dating apps, there’s a there is a system there is a way to have a better experience with dating apps and like in all my time Have I started out writing dating profiles 15 years ago, so I’ve been in this game for a minute. In all that time. I think honestly, there probably been maybe two clients that I have not been able to really move the needle for in online dating. And most of them have come to me. And this is not like this is not an advertisement or endorsement of my work. This is an endorsement of use the tools, the way they’re meant to be used and get help for them if they are not working for you. But most of the people were like, oh, wow, this is a completely different experience. And now I have a lot of better matches in my inbox, more matches in my inbox, more people that I have something in common with, things are progressing more, and I’m not ending up in these tech station ships. Right, it can be different. And so when you block yourself off to anything, especially what is really, truly the number one way to meet people now and for the foreseeable future, you are in some way you’re blocking your blessings, you’re blocking yourself off to love. And people come to me thinking like, well, I don’t really like online dating, I don’t know if I can work with you, because I don’t want to use online dating. It’s not the only method that I use. But I say it’s the most powerful tool in your dating toolbox. So why not use the tools that are available to you and all the other things that Jonathan said and frannie said about being creative in this time. Like that’s, I think what we’re called to do right now, to dive deeper, like you said, Jonathan, and to be more creative, like you said, frannie in in using these tools in different ways to connect with people differently. So


Unknown Speaker  51:27  

yeah, yeah, totally agree with that, too. No, no, I totally agree. It’s all of our clients. We all help them move the needle online. I love when people are like, it doesn’t work for me. It’s terrible. I’m like, Wait till you see. And yeah.


Unknown Speaker  51:38  

And what Dimona said, it’s the number it’s number one place where people are meeting, I’ve noticed 50% of all new relationships happen through some sort of online connection for the demographic of over 45 crowd


Damona  51:54  

No, but that’s a real stat like, percent. According to match a singles in America study, 40% of people said their last first date came from a dating app. And then when you consider everything that I put under the umbrella of online dating, everything you’ve been talking about Jonathan, Facebook groups, Instagram, whatever,


Unknown Speaker  52:13  



Damona  52:15  

and for any clubhouse or any other online meeting tool, it’s, it’s like you said 50%, or maybe even higher, and I think is we’re talking about the future of dating, it’s only going to,


Unknown Speaker  52:27  

and that’s why using using like OkCupid that asks really good questions compared to some of the other sites out there, it really does help using a platform like that. Because you can actually get a better sense of the person. So for those afraid, try, okay, Cupid, because that is really a great app. insight to you.


Unknown Speaker  52:49  

I always I always recommend, okay, keep it. But also, I mean, I’ll just say this, when I was, when I was single, I got to a place where I was like, I know, I’m gonna meet someone amazing. I don’t know where he is. So I’m just open. So I always kind of intuitively felt like I wasn’t going to meet my partner online. But I did it anyway. Because I was like, Who am I to tell the universe where my love is coming from, I just send my love is coming from somewhere. So I’m just open to that. So I would just encourage you, Jessica, and anybody else who’s listening just to be like, just just if you can really, if you truly believe that you can have the love that you want. Can you also then accept that you don’t know how it’s gonna happen? And why would you close a huge door of opportunity. So like if there was a warehouse at the outskirts of your town that had 10 million single men who were all like, I’m looking to meet someone? Would you want to go there, you don’t expect that. Like, it’s going to be filled with 10 million men you want to marry but you’d be like, I feel like I should at least do a little sorting. Right? And that’s what it that’s what when you say no to online dating. That’s what you’re saying no to yoga saying no to millions of people who have raised their hand to say I want to meet someone for some romantic purpose. And when you do that with intention, and you do that with the right strategy, and you are presenting the right profile, you’re swiping on the right profiles, you’re you are communicating in an intentional way you’re paying attention and seeing when people aren’t serious and moving on and like when you do all that like I’m not saying everybody’s going to meet their you know, the love of your life online, but you should and will connect with people and they’re not all going to work out but it’ll be better than it is now. That’s a promise.


Damona  54:29  

Well, I hope a lot of things will be better than they are now. I thank you both so much for spending your time with me and with the Dayton mates listeners yet again. Thank you for celebrating 350 episodes of data maids


Unknown Speaker  54:44  

Congratulations, rock damona Thank you for allowing us to be on here today.


Unknown Speaker  54:49  

Amazing. Hey,


Damona  54:51  

you can find Francesca hoagie on Instagram at dear frannie and definitely check out her podcast by the same name. If you’re on clubhouse if you want to be on clubhouse you should find frannie but if you are already on clubhouse do look up Francesca hogi also on clubhouse or you could also find out more about her coaching at Francesca hogi.com. Jonathan has a fabulous podcast what would love do? You can also find his book what the heck is self love anyway on Amazon, and definitely do yourself a favor and check out his rapidly growing YouTube channel. I hope you enjoyed Episode 350 of dates and mates. Don’t forget we have a fabulous episode recap at dates and mates calm and we will put all the links to the dating dish stories and offers from our show sponsors there. I would love to hear from you. I’d love to answer your questions in a future episode. You can hit me up on any of the socials at damona Hoffman send me a DM with your questions for the show. And by the way, if you are maybe like Jessica and a little frustrated with online dating, perhaps you’re just on the wrong dating app. Why not take my quiz. It’s free and it’ll tell you how to find the right dating app for you based on your lifestyle. You can find a link to that free quiz in the show notes. If you have a friend who would love to know the future of dating Don’t forget to share this episode with them and rate and review this show. I’ll be back again next week talking to another one of my friends from the love club matchmaker Maria some of you might know her on Instagram. She is super honest. And we’ll have a no holds barred conversation about dating profile mistakes about matchmaking and whether that’s the right option for you and how you can get your love life on track for 2021. Until next week, I wish you happy dating

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