The Bumble Blueprint & Linguistic Love Cues

NOW IS THE TIME FOR LOVE

The pandemic has been a wild rollercoaster ride of love for so many people. At the beginning Damona advised everyone should embrace virtual dates, then we moved onto social distance dates then back to virtual dates again. 

You wonder, “But Damona, how can you actually make a connection that way?”

Kyle and Olivia from Atlanta, met on Bumble, and we can’t wait to share with you how it all went down so you can learn how you too could find love right now.

But first, our dating dish.

DATING DISH (3:16)

The Year in Swipe

Tinder spills all the tea in 2020’s Year in Swipe Report.

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Sparks Fly on Virtual Dates, But Not So Much in Real Life

If you’re feeling the connection on virtual dates, you might not have in-person chemistry. Damona weighs in. 

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How to Win Someone Over

The Harvard Business Review teaches us how to win someone over. 

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LOVE IN THE TIME OF CORONA (12:50)

Kyle and Olivia found love in 2020 on Bumble. They share exactly how it happened and what timeline you can expect with your Bumble Boo – or POF Person, Tinder Tie-Up, Facebook Dating Friend with Benefits… etc. 

via GIPHY

 

FOLLOW ALONG HERE:

Unknown Speaker 0:00
It’s a tale as old as time. He’s handsome, debonair. She’s pretty and sweet. They lock eyes across the room.

Damona 0:10
Okay, hold on. Honey, you need to get your facts straight. Finding love today is more like Greece posts to get my

Unknown Speaker 0:18
swipe was invited to share my life.

Unknown Speaker 0:21
What does this text mean?

Unknown Speaker 0:22
Maybe he’s just not that into me is this relationship going anywhere,

Damona 0:26
you can keep waiting for the fairytale. Or you can get on board with the new rules of relationships. If you’ve read my advice in the LA Times, then you know, this ain’t your mama’s love advice. This is dates in mates with damona Hoffman. Hello, lovers, welcome to dates and mates, happy holidays, happy almost time for a vaccine day. Whoo, this pandemic, it’s been a wild roller coaster ride a love for so many people. You know, at the beginning, I advised you, you should embrace virtual dates. And then we moved into social distance dates. But then with the spike in numbers, I was like, Nah, you need to go back to the virtual dates. And you said but damona? Maybe you didn’t say it like that. But you were like, how can you actually make a connection that way. And I told the same thing to my clients. And I said that the process is the same, you know, I have a dating process. It’s the same even though it might be happening virtually. But it takes at least three months of really committing to a dating plan, usually, for my clients to finally see a shift. And I have to admit, in November, spirits were low, many of my clients wanted to throw in the towel. And some of them even doubted that system would still work in a pandemic. And they thought maybe this just wasn’t their season for love. After we did our single hit episode. So many people said to me, like yeah, I’m tapping out. Thanks for thanks for giving me the out Dimona, I’m out of here. But you know what I have, I got three different emails this week from clients who have moved literally from basically hopelessness into almost exclusivity in just a couple weeks. And I got to meet incredible couple who connected virtually at the height of the pandemic, and their relationship couldn’t be stronger. So I am a big believer in virtual love. And I also believe that even in the midst of a pandemic, you could still have your season to meet someone if you want it. I’ll be talking to Kyle and Olivia from Atlanta, they met on Bumble. And I cannot wait to share with you how it all went down. So you can learn how you too could find love right now. But first, you know, I like to do these headlines. And there’s a lot happening. Tinder spills all the tea in there 2020 year and swipe report. And watch out if you’re feeling the connection on virtual dates you might not have in person chemistry. Plus, the Harvard Business Review teaches us how to win someone over. Oh, that one is a brain bender. And there’s so much more coming up on dates and mates today. Now it’s time for the dish, these dating dish. Y’all know I love a good report. And Tinder. Tinder is the number one dating app. So I trust their data. And I love digging into it to know what’s really going on what’s happening on the front lines of dating apps today. So that I can tell you, and there is a lot in here that was super juicy. We covered this report last year, I think was the first year that they did it. And obviously, when you think back to December 2019, to where we are today, what a difference a year makes, obviously, more messaging and more swiping they were up nearly double digits by the end of the year compared with even just February of this year, which is usually high season for the dating apps between January and February. That’s when they see the big spike in new users. We spiked double digits beyond that. And of course the pickup game change the pickup lines started shifting even as early as March they started hearing a lot of quarantine and chill, you know, you know, they’re they can track what people are saying in their messages. They base people got real corny with this, they were like let’s be like COVID and catch each other or wash your hands so you can hold mine. I don’t recommend any pickup lines like that, but I’m sure it made a couple of people giggle and maybe led to some connections. And there were also evolutions in the emoji usage I covered last year how the facepalm was the big emoji of 2019 we have evolved it’s no longer the facepalm it’s not even in the top 10 maybe that’s just because We don’t want to have our hands in our face, because we know that we could transmit COVID that way.

Now the most common apps are the, you know, the shrug emoji that like, What? What’s up? everybody’s like, I don’t know what’s happening. It’s COVID. Of course, the the mask emoji that one that’s obviously genius, and toilet paper, and grocery carts, which I didn’t even know, were emojis. I literally didn’t know that those existed in the emoji keyboard. But now they’re really hot on Tinder. Should you use them to make a connection? I think you could do better, I think you could talk about something a little bit more with more depth to it. They also saw that politics were a hotter topic than before. People lay down those political deal breakers, right in their bios, I said that in episodes leading up to the election, and also mentions of Black Lives Matter on the platform were up 55 times amid, you know, you know what happened, you know, you know, so you know, Black Lives Matter has been a thing for a long time. But of course, this year, people are talking about it in a new way and talk of voting doubled in the months leading up to the 2020 election. So that’s what’s on everybody’s mind. But I really feel like there’s been a shift in the dating landscape. Even just since the election ended, I feel like people in the last month have become a lot more open to dating. But of course, as numbers are spiking, you have to be safe. So the New York Times tells us how you can make a connection on a virtual date. Of course, as I mentioned, at the top of the show, at the beginning of the pandemic, everybody turned to video dating to make connections like we were all just grabbing at straws, like I’m stuck here this house I need human connection. And then we really fatigued over the the whole virtual dates and just being on zoom for the whole day. Like now I have to have a zoom date. That’s not cute. So this article really examines how to make a connection over video and they told some stories of people who thought that they had a connection over video. But once they met face to face, they didn’t always feel that spark anymore. They interviewed this behavioral expert, she’s based in Amsterdam, so she has a name that I’m probably going to butcher and Marja ood is how I’m told it is said, people are going to correct me I’m sure on it. But I think things must be really different in Amsterdam, because she recommended that you want to really give a person a sense of what you look like on camera. So she said show yourself fully by standing up and turning around for a clear view of how you look even if it feels awkward. And no, no, not in my book. Okay, so you can play by Anne’s book, or you can play by the damona Hoffman dates and maids rule book, that is weird, do not do it, you also have to leave something to the imagination. And I really don’t think that it’s going to help you at all to to show your body moving on. Unless you have like a reason like you’re gonna make it cool. Like we’re gonna do a dance off. If the person is into dancer if even though they’ve had like six gmts or something. But otherwise, no, just stay seated and just be regular. Okay, just be normal, be your normal self.

And also focus on listening, of course and asking good questions, but also creating more interaction. You’ve heard me say this before gamify the date play 20 questions like really make it more than just like feeling like a work meeting. And then of course, they say, as soon as it’s safe, try to get offline and meet face to face as soon as possible. That is the same thing that I say. And I just did a refinery 29 interview last week and and the writer was asking me about how quickly it should progress if you’re in the virtual date phase. And now we can’t really go on social distance dates too easily. And I really feel like it’s the same timeline. It’s just that now we can’t, we can’t move offline as quickly. So you need to make those virtual dates feel a little bit juicy or but still after, I would say probably two or three max virtual dates, like put on your snow pants and figure out a way to actually connect face to face because I do think that face to face connection is really important. And you’re going to hear a little bit more about that experience as I talk to our Bumble couple in just a moment. And if you’re wondering how to make that great connection when you do meet face to face. This is this. This is a little bit of a twist for dates and mates. We actually took a page out of the Harvard Business review for you this week on how to win someone over. So this is not a dating article or study like we normally report on this was actually a study about lawyers and how they win over judges but producer Leone, I thought it was so fascinating because a lot of the advice that they give is the same thing that I tell my clients about mirroring, linguistic mirroring, and even body language mirroring. So in this article, which of course will link to in the show notes at dates and mates calm. It said, when you mirror your counterparts preferred communication style, they’re more likely to find you convincing or feel familiar or authentic. And that is really a big part of the connection. Like what what are people looking for, they’re not looking to be impressed by you, they’re not looking to have you list off all of the wonderful things about you and your your house and your boat, and your dog and your your job. And like all these things that that make us feel like we have value in today’s society know, somebody wants to feel like they connect with you that they feel like you’re real, and they feel seen by you and like you get them. And linguistic mirroring is something that happens naturally, when you feel a connection to someone but hot tip you can actually create more connection by intentionally mirroring their linguistic flow, like the way that they speak their inflection, their tone, their volume. And that’s just one little piece of the pie. Obviously, I have tons more than I could tell you. I share a lot of it with our Patreon friends with benefits in our little secret private Facebook group. So if you want to get more tips on flirting or more tips on virtual dates, make sure you check us out@patreon.com slash dates and mates you can join there for just five bucks. When I come back, I will have the cutest couple that I have ever seen. who met on Bumble in the middle of a pandemic. And I feel hopeful I’m in a relationship and they made me feel hopeful. So I’m really hoping that they make you feel hopeful as well. So stick around. Welcome back to dates and mates. I know you’ve probably thought once or twice about giving up on finding love in a pandemic. But it’s time to think about it just one more time and maybe change your mind. I am here with Kyle and Olivia, they live in Atlanta. And they found love on Bumble in 2020. Yes, in the middle of a pandemic. So if you’ve been down on the dating apps, give me a chance to prove you wrong today. Please help me give big smooches to my guests, Kyle and Olivia.

Unknown Speaker 12:50
Hi, guys.

Damona 12:52
I’m so glad you could be here with me. Let me tell you people are out here and these online dating streets struggling they are struggling. So first of all, congratulations to you for finding one another at a time like this. But I want to hear I want to hear everything I want to hear the good, the bad and the ugly, the ups and the downs. And how you came to find each other on Bumble finally. So you’re not new to dating apps. Right? Olivia, you’ve done this before you had done this before about the dance.

Unknown Speaker 13:30
The dance is a tango. And sometimes you win sometimes you lose. But I will say I’ve been on Tinder I’ve been on hinge I’ve been on Bumble Bumble has always been my favorite. To be honest. I think that people on Bumble are more serious about relationships or finding a relationship rather than the hookup culture that has now been created. And I can honestly say I was struggling to before I met Kyle of but I found it I decided to just try Bumble again at the top of the pandemic, there really wasn’t much going on. I was going to work on home structure and it seemed indefinite. And so I was balancing working from home I had a roommate at the time who did the bumblebee line and encouraged me to actually do it as well. And I did it first. In March. I think it was more of like the middle of March and match with some guys, but that fizzled out. And so I kind of was disheartened. So I was kind of in the mindset of I’m not doing it anymore. I don’t want to be on Bumble. This is terrible. The pandemics not gonna last that long. But then I really said no. Try it again. See what happens. So I said okay, fine. I’ll take the bat Beeline. I’ll do it one more time. And then I saw Kyle and my Beeline and I matched with him and we just kind of took it from there.

Damona 14:49
Whoo. I can’t wait to hear all the juiciness of what happened once you met but I got to hear from you, Kyle. Did you have a similar experience with dating apps before?

Unknown Speaker 14:59
Sure. Bumble was the only dating app that I had ever tried. I liked it so much because it puts women in the driver’s seat. And sometimes that’s half the battle. And, you know, you have to reach out to them like another apps that I’ve heard on, he had to reach out to them. He had to hope they’re interested, but it makes makes women kind of like, you know, the aggressor in a way, like, okay, like, I want you and you guys match. So I like that. I really like that because they have to come outside their comfort zone. So um, that’s why

Damona 15:42
I am seeing a look from Olivia right now. Like when you said it makes women the aggressor. What was that?

Unknown Speaker 15:47
Look?

Unknown Speaker 15:48
I guess my leg was kind of I feel like maybe I cheated at that. Because Because with the Beeline, what’s so great about is that you see guys that already like to you. So I kind of knew he was already interested. I wasn’t swiping to see if you know, if we match. It was kind of like, oh, he already likes me. So I can swipe. And we’re just an automatic match. I think I kind of cheated.

Damona 16:13
Was that your your strategy? Like? Did you have a dating app strategy?

Unknown Speaker 16:18
No, I honestly, this was my second time using the Beeline but I’ve never used the Beeline prior to the pandemic, I think that I was at a point where I wanted to leave through even more the people that I wasn’t interested in and kind of get a leg up because I do like Bumble because the woman takes the first has the first move. But at the same time, you could match or swipe with so many people and reach out to them. And then they don’t reply back or they take too long to reply back. So I think that the Beeline really helped me kind of propel or push faster into getting to know someone because I knew they already liked me. And it was a quicker start to the conversation. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 16:58
definitely.

Damona 16:59
Kyle, did you what How did you meet women before?

Unknown Speaker 17:04
Oh, before Bumble.

Damona 17:07
Yeah. Or had you been doing Bumble for a long time. And that was like your that was your main dating app squeeze.

Unknown Speaker 17:12
I was doing Bumble for all of 2019 um, and it was exhausting. be socially exhausting, because I was I was going on so many first dates. And you know, they would just like live said just fizzle out. And but I kept you know, going back to and then I would stop, you know, I, I kind of I am gonna chill for a minute, then I go back and then I was stopped. So before that on it. Honestly, I was pretty. I was pretty like oblivious. I was really like in my work. And that’s all I was doing. And I was in a long, like a long term relationship before that. So I really didn’t know anything about like the new dating world and dating apps or, you know, tenders or anything like that. So, um,

Damona 18:03
that’s the way to do it. Olivia, you got to get them while they’re fresh, fresh meat. You know, not all that baggage. All those you know, ideas about it, you just go in there, get the Beeline and snatch them. No. No, I do want to know how it actually worked. Once you matched How long did you communicate on the app before you move to the next step? And what was that next step when you did?

Unknown Speaker 18:31
Oh, wow. So I think it was maybe the same day, right? The same day we matched

Unknown Speaker 18:37
Yes.

Unknown Speaker 18:37
We talked the same

Unknown Speaker 18:38
day we matched we talked for I think though the whole day on the app. And you know, just try to get a feel for each other. And, and I know, at that point, being on the app, I was asking questions, like we’re not getting off this app to you know, you answered this, this this I was

Damona 18:57
gonna interview Olivia sometimes,

Unknown Speaker 19:00
because I was asking my list of questions too. And I was gonna say like one thing about us, our profiles kind of have a similar message where his profile said, you know, I’m looking for somebody to take me off of this app. And my profile says something along the lines of like, I’m looking for the last gentleman out there to you know, match with and see where it goes. So when we got into a conversation on that it kind of just flowed into, okay, what do you like, how has the pandemic been for you? What have you been watching? What are you looking for? Are you looking for something serious? And we talked for the remaining remainder of the day into the evening? And then Kyle quickly told me he had work the next morning, so he couldn’t talk to me anymore. Um,

Damona 19:44
so sounds like your feelings were a little bit hurt in that moment.

Unknown Speaker 19:48
He still brings that up. But it was really nice because it to me is showing me my priorities. And I’m like, if he takes his priorities that seriously, I want to be one of those priorities. So I gave him my phone number. And then we quickly took it off the app the next day.

Damona 20:06
Okay, so talk me through that that step Did you gave you gave your phone number to him. Kyle, were you nervous to give her a call? What are you feeling?

Unknown Speaker 20:18
So story? Yes. So the story is, I, I like I have a very dry sensing where I have a very unique sense of humor. So what I did the next day, because I didn’t wait, I don’t believe in the whole all you got to wait a week, and I don’t have time for the game. So what I did was I text her and I told her, Hey, this is Brandon. And she’s like Brandon, Fran, and who? And I was like, you know, remember we met at the club? Or, you know, I made up some elaborate story. And she, she, she kept like, you know, who is this? Or like, when Where did I go to the club? Where what bars like, wow, you don’t remember our conversation, and all that. So finally, she asked for a picture. I’m like, Ah, man, I don’t want the joke to be over just yet. So I sent her a baby picture. And

Unknown Speaker 21:12
I love being blocked.

Unknown Speaker 21:13
Yeah. And I felt it. My spirit. So finally. Finally, I was just like, No, no, just kidding. This is Kyle. And yeah, before I got blocked, because I guess apparently I was

Damona 21:28
so close. Okay, so you’re still just like you were in the app messaging. And now you’re still just messaging but on your phone?

Unknown Speaker 21:35
Yes.

Damona 21:36
So when did you make it make real like real contact?

Unknown Speaker 21:40
So we messaged on the phone once I realized he wasn’t Brandon. And the job was over. And it was kind of it was at first it was funny, because I’m like, No, this is Kyle. I’m saying it in the text. I was like, No, I don’t know. Kyle is Brandon. Okay, this is embarrassing. So you’re going to get blocked very quickly. Um, but the joke subsided and we started conversations, we started talking and I feel like that same day, he FaceTime me for the first time. And so this was April 8. Okay, sorry, talking April 7. Um, and so he based on me, we FaceTime every day after that. We went on our first virtual date which

Damona 22:18
Wait, hold on, before you get into the virtual day, I have to pause because the FaceTime This is a point of contention for me and a lot of my clients here. Did you just just out of the blue FaceTime? Or did you make a plan to cut to FaceTime her?

Unknown Speaker 22:35
I don’t know if I honestly, I don’t know, if I actually made a plan did we

Unknown Speaker 22:40
know you FaceTime me out of nowhere, which I know is quite taboo.

Unknown Speaker 22:43
I don’t know, you’re allowed to just FaceTime out of nowhere, you just meet someone, um,

Damona 22:48
did she pick up.

Unknown Speaker 22:50
So I picked up and I quickly had to get my life together. I didn’t miss the FaceTime call. Um, but because I was already home, I’m kind of doing the meat of Zoo meetings and things like that I was already okay. So when I picked up for him, I was able to talk to them. Um, and the conversation was very normal. And it was like I knew him. Like we were already friends. We talked, we crack jokes about things we were interested in, we talked about our day. Um, so it actually played out really well for us. And then we facetimed all the time after that really didn’t use the phone. And we texted a lot when we couldn’t talk. If he had meetings, I had meetings doing stuff. And I think we had that mutual respect of we don’t want to call her talk constantly, or didn’t want to be needy or desperate. But we had enough where I felt like at least for him as a guy. He was still showing interest in me. So I was feeding that back.

Damona 23:45
And at this point, in the pandemic, things were still very locked down. It’s not like you could just be like, hey, let’s go grab a drink, maybe would that have been what you would do in normal times? And the pace timing was sort of a substitute for a real date?

Unknown Speaker 23:59
Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, we definitely would have like to go out or anything like that, but we kind of had to, like do the virtual dates and things. So yeah, it was definitely a new experience. adjustment.

Damona 24:15
So how long are you going back and forth on FaceTime before you decide to actually mate?

Unknown Speaker 24:21
Wow. Oh, that

Unknown Speaker 24:23
was at least a month.

Unknown Speaker 24:26
Yeah, I think it was like a month.

Unknown Speaker 24:27
So I was a little bit more paranoid at the time. I had a roommate and she was a nurse at chellah. So Children’s Healthcare of Atlanta. So I was living with somebody who was saying the front lines is this is serious, this is going to get worse. And so he was very interested in doing virtual dates, but sending me food be Uber Eats or doordash. And so it was a sweet idea because we were supposed to eat dinner together and watch like a movie virtually or tune into what was it the Teddy Riley Baby, baby. So we watch different things together, but I I was like, I don’t First off, I’m not eating outside of my house. I don’t want to eat anything from anyone else. And then at the time, I also didn’t want to give him my address. I really didn’t know him.

Unknown Speaker 25:09
She shut me down.

Unknown Speaker 25:11
I shut him down a couple of times, um, for the food, but I gave it we gave it about a month. Mm hmm. Because everybody was saying at the time, you know, two weeks 14 days quarantining, so I kind of said, All right, it’s been a month, he hasn’t shown any symptoms. I talked to him sunup to sundown, and I haven’t heard him call once. So maybe we can meet. Um, and I was very particular about our meeting, it had to be outside. I wanted it to be during the day, and I wanted it to be at least close enough to me, or to you where we weren’t driving out of the way because you have to be safe, like as a woman and you have to be safe. And you know, during the panel, you know, side a lot of rule. Lots of rules somebody put up with

Damona 25:56
Kyle, did you have any? any qualms about meeting her? She’s living with a nurse who was on the front lines? Would did that make you nervous at all?

Unknown Speaker 26:07
Um, honestly, no. Because she was so like, in a bubble. Even though like, you know, that she mentioned her roommate was a nurse, but still, she was so much in her bubble. Like she said, I wouldn’t. I wasn’t even able to send food to her. She wasn’t even getting like takeout or anything. So I was like, Okay, well, if anybody would, you know, probably be mean, but. So we were fine with that. Yeah, we were I was fine with it.

Damona 26:32
Okay, so where did you go when you finally couldn’t meet up?

Unknown Speaker 26:37
When you walk?

Damona 26:41
You know, say that one more time.

Unknown Speaker 26:42
We took a walk. Where?

Unknown Speaker 26:45
Yeah. So he was still going into his office. I was working from home. And yeah, exactly. But it was social distance. There wasn’t a lot of people in his office. They were still being safe. But he was in his office during the day. So I took a lunch break from work. And I said, Okay, well, I’ll come see you on my lunch break. And then we can take a walk. He said he actually he actually came up with it. He said we could take a walk near his job because there was a kind of Plaza restaurant area near his job. So he said, I want to it all the time from my lunch break. So we could just take lunch together. And I said, Okay, well, I’m not eating anywhere, but we can take the walk. He said, Okay, so I dropped his job. And I got out the car. And we met for the first time we gave each other hug. We went on this walk

Damona 27:35
mask and you’re fully masked, right? Or no, this is before masks were mandated.

Unknown Speaker 27:40
Yeah. For mask or mandated. So we know masks. I’m walking talking with people weren’t around as if we saw people, we went a different way. Yeah. Um, you wanted to get out here.

Damona 27:56
I want to know what your first impressions were. Because that that transition is sometimes unexpected for people when they move from the from the app or from FaceTime to actually seeing each other. Kyle, what did you think the minute you first saw her in real life?

Unknown Speaker 28:12
So first off, she was as cute as she is now. Um, so what she was, she had just like a glow about her. And I really appreciated that. We just saw each other. And it was like, Oh, there you are. Oh, there you are. But it was it was like a comfortable feeling. Like there wasn’t there wasn’t any nervousness or anything like that. So that’s something that I definitely took notice of because we were on that walk. And it wasn’t like it wasn’t uncomfortable. I don’t think it was just very

Unknown Speaker 28:46
agreeable. I was definitely nervous

Unknown Speaker 28:49
a lot. I wasn’t.

Unknown Speaker 28:51
I was nervous, because I had talked to this person every day for a month. And I like you know, the fear. I guess for me, online dating is you grow this relationship with someone and then it could be a catfish, or that person could be crazy. Or they could have that intention. So it was a little nerve wracking to finally meet this guy that I was so interested in and like gel so well that I was like, Oh my gosh, I hope normal. I hope he likes me. I hope I was cute. I hope it doesn’t rain, I hope and just so many things. Because Yeah, so I think the thing I was definitely a little bit nervous. But as we walk the conversation flowed the same way it did on our own calls, so I felt more and more comfortable.

Damona 29:30
Could you tell she was nervous, Kyle?

Unknown Speaker 29:33
I couldn’t, honestly until until just now I didn’t know that she was nervous. But as we took our walk, we you could just tell that I think that you became more and more comfortable. And by the end of the walk, it was like Okay, so this is it. Yeah.

Damona 29:51
So considering there’s a pandemic, and you’re probably not on the app talking to other people, I’m guessing. I don’t want to step in any Thing awkward. No, we

Unknown Speaker 30:02
talked about that too. Um, I wasn’t talking to anybody. When I was in when I initially matched with Kyle, I matched with other guys. But our conversation went so well. And I really was losing hope. So I was kind of like, you know what this conversation so I’ll focus only on this person. And so I didn’t have anybody else. I was juggling at the time it was solely talking

Unknown Speaker 30:23
to him. Yeah. When when we matched, and we started talking, um, I think after we FaceTime, I completely like just, even though even though we didn’t have that initial conversation of exclusivity, I like, put my thing on Do Not Disturb. Because I don’t like no distractions or anything like cool. I want to focus on this. And I think even I’m sorry, to whoever or she’s listening. But somebody gave me their number. Wow, like we were in, I just didn’t even use it. Right. So they’re kind of just out there in the lurch.

Damona 31:02
Oh, but that happens so much, right? That happens a lot. These sort of unmet expectations. I also wanted to address what you said Olivia, about, that the nervousness coming from all that expectation, you’d spent a month getting to know each other. And usually in regular times, I would tell my clients move offline as quickly as possible, you need to see if this is the real deal in the real world. And so there’s less expectation, but you can’t do that in the middle of a pandemic. And even though we had a summer that was a little bit more lacks, in a lot of places where I’m in Los Angeles, things are locked down, and no outdoor dining whatsoever. And a lot of my a lot of my clients and listeners in different places, as the weather is turning, they can’t do dates. They can’t do dates outdoors anymore. And they’re really struggling with that moving the relationship forward. But that fear of what if what if he’s not what I expected him to be, can sometimes keep you in that state of limbo?

Unknown Speaker 32:08
No, definitely. I think that it was a, a not a big fear, especially not on the first date. Because I had, I had gone through the rinse and repeat of online dating where you go on a date with somebody, and maybe it works and it’s great and you want another date and then somehow it fizzles out or it just you know, on that first date, this is never happening again. So I kind of walked into it like okay, this is something that never happens again. I guess I just chalked up another month of my life, doing the rinse and repeat of online dating. But I did go into it very hopeful because we had such a great year. Yeah, it’s like I can’t I know it sounds really cliche, but it’s like I knew him already. It’s like, we were already friends. It was like he just meshed so well with me. And I mesh so well with him that it just really worked. And like he said, I kind of got more comfortable throughout the date itself, because we ended up sitting down on some steps that outside of a church. And then I kind of just leaned and put my head on his shoulder and he put his head on mine. And then I think in that moment I knew okay. Yeah, see where this goes. And I think that we walked back to my car, he walking back to my car, and we were both on conference calls. So we’re still trying to work from home and I under I appreciated his hustle, hustle. I appreciated him being understanding that I slept at work he slashed to where it was a lot of things that we were still making sure that our priorities got taken care of. But we were still making sure we had time for one another.

Damona 33:39
Do you think that you did something different in the staging process? And I’m also curious, do you think COVID and the pandemic and lockdown had an effect on YouTube being able to meet Do you think it would have played out? Maybe differently? If you had met it another time?

Unknown Speaker 34:00
I always say yes. I always say I don’t think that we would have met at a pandemic because

Damona 34:06
I or outside of a pandemic.

Unknown Speaker 34:08
Yeah, outside the pandemic. It was just that that point. I feel like I was more like I’m kind of tired of dating and like when the pandemic hit, I was just like, Alright, let’s see, just one more time. That was my one more time. So it was Kismet, obviously. But yeah, that was my one more time but I always say if it was regular. Now, because I was doing that already the year before I would like have long hiatuses of just not going back on Bumble.

Damona 34:43
What would you say was different? I mean, aside from the global pandemic, do you feel like it had something to do with the way that you paced the relationship getting to know each other over FaceTime or something else that was happening internally.

Unknown Speaker 35:00
Oh, um, we definitely FaceTime more that helped, um, probably more than like when I would, when I was dating previously, that really helped because that believe it or not gave some type of interaction more interaction than just regular talking on the phone. You know, I got to we got to see each other laugh, which is really important. We got to like, as as funny as it may sound like each other in the eye when we’re talking. So it definitely added to the closest right before we met. Mm hmm.

Unknown Speaker 35:41
Was it the same,

Unknown Speaker 35:41
I always say, we would have probably met outside of the pandemic, I think it would have just taken us a little bit longer. I don’t only because he has friends that were in the same area, like people, he has this other business partners, friends, things like that. He, they were in the same place as me and different events the year prior, like during Halloween and things like that, when we were actually able to be out. And so I said, You know, I probably would have ended up at an event you were at, and then we may have met and started talking. But then he says I would have been focused on doing whatever I was doing, I was able to pay attention to you. I would have made you like hello, hi, I would have still pursued you with my personality. But I

Unknown Speaker 36:26
don’t know, I don’t I don’t think so personally, but she says that thing, you know, maybe

Damona 36:31
funny. My husband who was actually on a couple episodes ago, when we met we actually had some mutual friends in common. But we met online. And we know of at least two parties that we were both at and may or may not have met but he says he wouldn’t. He was like, he’s very introverted. He probably wouldn’t have have said anything to me. So like through the app, he was able to gain the confidence and find the right words. And yeah, you know, make the make the right moves. I’m curious how long before you had an actual real date? Or have you? Have you even had a real date? Like, as much as we can in a pandemic? Okay,

Unknown Speaker 37:13
we actually did have our real day and it was perfect because it

Unknown Speaker 37:19
was cookie friendly.

Unknown Speaker 37:19
Yeah, it was inadvertently quote COVID friendly. So we went to the driving. And we went to yet we went to go see a movie at the drive in. But you see bad boys for life? Yeah. So yeah, we went to we went to see bad boys for life. And that tacos first we got tacos from my favorite taco spot. And yeah, and it was just us in the car watching the movie. And I think that it was, that was a great intimate moment for us. Because just us very, right. There’s nobody, like, you know, popcorn spilling on you because somebody else and further, you know, the back or whatever. So it was good. That was our I believe that was our first one. Yeah, we

Unknown Speaker 38:07
hung out. Like I came over and watch movies at his house once I realized that he wasn’t weird and that this was Um, but yeah, we hung out at his house. And then he said, You know, I’m, I want us to do a date. I have a plan. And so that’s one thing that I really appreciate about him is that he is very take charge. And he is very romantic, even though he thinks he’s not I’m very like, into romcoms. He’s, but he’s very romancing and he made a plan. And he said, We’re going somewhere somewhere. Okay, whatever. It was kind of a surprise for me. You didn’t tell me where we were going. He said, we’re gonna get tacos with you both love tacos. So this was perfect. And then he was like, and then we pulled up and I’m like, I’ve been here before. sighs Oh, gosh,

Unknown Speaker 38:48
we’re gonna drive

Unknown Speaker 38:49
and he’s like, yeah, we want to drive in. I want to take you on a day to something COVID friendly, cuz I know you didn’t want to be outside of the house. So I really appreciated it and taking the time to make sure that I was comfortable. And then like you said it was more of an intimate date. Because it was us it was our food. There was nobody really around, you’re playing on the radio. So it was really, really nice and really sweet. And so that was our first in person real date.

Damona 39:15
It’s like the 1950s is kind of romantic. You have your own little bubble there. So speaking of speaking of your bubble, what does it look like? Now? How have you How has the relationship progressed? And like? Olivia, do you have different rules now? Are you eating at other people’s houses? Are you eating at the same house? What’s going on?

Unknown Speaker 39:38
Um, I think I’m, I’m a little bit less with him at least, but like less cautious. I think that we spend a lot of time together whether I’m at his house or he’s at my house. But I don’t think that outside of our relationship. We i’m not i’m still very mask oriented. We have hand sanitizer in our cars. I actually bought him mask, I put masks in his car. And it kind of turned because where I was. So trying to be on guard and trying to set the tone of we need to be careful, we need to be cautious. You need to wear your mask. I think there was a point in what, June or July where I would just get out of the car to go to the supermarket and his keys fully man, I

Unknown Speaker 40:18
don’t have my mask on. And she

Unknown Speaker 40:20
said, What are you doing? And I’m like, What do you mean? So it kind of shifted. And so now it keeps me on top of things, because I’m like, trying to remember Oh, yeah, mask everything. So I think it kind of works out, I feel like our relationship works really well because of a balance. And we’re very balanced in the sense of being precautious for one another, and we do eat out. But where we eat, we make sure the restaurant social distance that they’re wearing masks, we wear masks, when we’re around other people, we tend to be outside, so we’re eating out less now that it’s colder in Atlanta. But um, I think I think that we try to be as cautious as we can. Yeah, um, especially the longer we’re dating, you know, now we’re looking at, you know, blending the families, having my parents meet his parents, having him meet my parents, he’s met my dad, my needs met my sister. So just trying to be cautious in those ways too. Because as we get, you know, as we continue to grow our bond, we don’t want to miss out on the opportunity to continue our life together and stay in just that bubble, our bubble has to somewhat expand just a little bit, just a little bit. But we want to make sure at least I don’t want to be free. But I want to make sure that we can still move forward and progress forward in a positive manner, we

Unknown Speaker 41:37
still have to have those temples of different moments where as long as there’s social distance, and it’s safe for us to continue our relationship as normal as we can.

Damona 41:50
That’s all we’re striving for. As we can be, what advice, tips, inspiration do you have for anyone listening? Who is at this point where so many of my listeners have written in about this phase of COVID and being locked down again. And just the fatigue, they’re fatigued of dating apps, they’re fatigued of texts that go nowhere? They’re just, you know, overwhelmed by the fear of COVID? And how do you even date when you can’t even leave your house? What would you say to them,

Unknown Speaker 42:25
um, it’s possible, it’s very, very possible, you have to be a little more creative. And honestly, you’re going to, this is a great way to weed some some people out, because all you have is conversation, it depends on your level of like, you know, safety as far as COVID goes, but you all you have this conversation with us, I think is great that we met during the pandemic, if you know, the pandemic itself is very unfortunate. But we had our relationship in reverse. We were, we couldn’t go anywhere. So everything was just, you know, finding things to do around the house. Like we we did games where we would know each like find out about each other and ask questions. We had game nights, we had all kinds of stuff. So it makes you more creative. And we didn’t, we didn’t go out like barely, we barely went out. So now we’re just it’s like everyday life. And we did that first. So you have to be ready to, you know, if you do talk to somebody during a pandemic, you have to be ready to do, do things kind of reverse and really get to know them. And it’s honestly, it’s pretty rewarding to them.

Unknown Speaker 43:47
No, definitely, I think my advice would be to always be your genuine self, especially right now. I think that some of the conversations or some of the interactions that other people will have, be open to a friendship. I think that’s also something I think that when I met him and I smashed with him, I was like, Okay, if I get a great guy that I can talk to, and another friend that I can make in this pandemic, then that would be great to because at this point, I had a roommate, so I had social interaction. And I was doing some parties with my sister in New York and her friends. So I had some type of social interaction, but it would have been It was like, Okay, I’m gonna get something great out of this one way or the other. And then sometimes I think that when you go into online dating, it can be disheartening. But I’m, once again, I know it sounds cliche, but he or she is out there. And I think you just have to have the patience to and to not take all the losses or all the bad apples and take them personally. It’s just whatever that person is carrying or moving within life, then that’s how they’re showing up but just kind of see it through. Sometimes you might need to take a little break from it, take a breather, refocus, do something else and then come back to it with her. fresher mind, but always be your genuine self look for laughs look for a good time because it’s it can be really bleak with the pandemic right now. And everybody’s dealing with it in different ways. People are morning people, there’s a lot of grief, a lot of concerns with mental health. So, you know, just try to make connections and see where those connections grow. Like give it the time because right now we have nothing but time. Yep.

Damona 45:24
Well, I couldn’t have said it better myself. Thank you so much for being here and for sharing your amazing love story. You two are adorable together. I know our listeners can’t see you. But you’ll just have to take my word for it. And I just wish her the two of you together. The two of you together are amazing. And I just wish you continued love and happiness and health. together.

Unknown Speaker 45:48
You Sandy.

Damona 45:50
Thank you. This has been Episode 340 of dates and mates. I’m at damona Hoffman on all of the socials. Please DM me your questions. Let me know what you’d like to know. If you’re struggling to find love on dating apps. Let me know where you’re getting stuck. And I could answer your question on a future episode. You can also feel free to send me a message about what you learned from today’s episode. Go ahead and DM me and send me a voice memo. I’d love to hear your voice. You sat here and listen to my voice all this time. I want to hear yours. And you can find me on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook at damona Hoffman. We have just one more episode left for 2020. But the search for Love does not rest. So neither will I I will be doing my weekly q&a as for anyone who needs support over the holidays in my patreon Friends with Benefits group that you can join for just five bucks@patreon.com slash dates and mates. And there’s a whole group of supportive people who are going through the same thing you are and would love to invite you into the circle again, that’s patreon.com slash dates and mates. Next week, we have another dear demona on tap. So do send me your questions. DM me if you can or leave me a voicemail at 424-246-6255 Again, that’s 424-246-6255 we’ll be back again next. I already said that. Let me just say also, and don’t forget to mark Don’t forget to subscribe and don’t forget to subscribe to the show and rate and review. If you are subscribed, you will get our episodes in January. We are moving to a new day on Tuesday. So if you’re not subscribed, you might miss out join the club. Until next week. I wish you happy dating

 

Relationship Anarchy & Matrimony Inc

DATING THROUGH THE AGES

It’s been a very tumultuous week, month, year…you get the picture.

But the Dates & Mates train has to keep on trucking because people still need help in love.

So today, we thought it’d be a welcome departure to hear some love stories from a more romantic era with Francesca Beauman, historian and author.

Francesca has gone through hundreds of years of personals ads from people looking for marriage and she’s compiled them all into the delightful new book, Matrimony, Inc.

But first, let’s dish:

DATING DISH 

Rules for Dating in Second Lock Down

A second lockdown is coming, so it’s time to define the relationship now. Damona explains why.

Relationship Anarchy

Relationship Anarchy – the latest movement shaping the future of love. Damona weighs in.

Photos Men Should Not Put On a Dating Profile

Photos mentioned: bad selfies, gym mirror selfies, and photos at the Women’s March. Damon explains why.

THE HISTORY OF LOVE

Damona and Francesca explore how the search for love throughout history has built the foundation for dating today.

Check of Francesca’s new book Matrimony, Inc: From Personal Ads to Swiping Right, a Story of American Looking for Love

FOLLOW ALONG HERE!

Damona  0:10  

Hello, lovers, we are recording this on what I think is day four of the election saga. And it’s been a tumultuous day already. Well, a tumultuous week, actually month. Well, let’s be real year, you get the picture. But the dates made strain it has to keep on trucking because people still need help and love. And I’m reading the room y’all. The other day when I finished my coaching call for my my women’s group program, I realized there’s a lot of anxious energy not just in dating, but overall. So today, I thought it’d be a welcome departure. To hear some love stories from a more Romantic era with Francesca Bowman, historian and author. Get this Francesca has found personal ads from various newspapers over the last couple hundred years that were written by people looking for marriage, and she’s compiled them all into the delightful new book, matrimony Inc. So today we’re going to explore how the search for love throughout history has built the foundation for dating today. And I’m so excited for y’all to hear this interview. And to have a little fun with us and a little levity. and bask in the fantasy with me and Francesca. But first as always, we have headlines. Lock your relationships down now because a second lockdown is on the horizon. Hmm. And relationship anarchy, the latest movement shaping the future of love, plus, the photos you should put on your dating profile today. Now that sir, just watched the Borah, subsequent movie feel so funny. I had to call that one back. All right, why don’t we get on with it. And let’s dish

 

Unknown Speaker  2:20  

these dating dish.

 

Damona  2:22  

bustle reported the new rules for dating in a second lockdown. So I know we have people from all over the US, from Canada from the UK. And I just found out that our friends in the UK as of today, the day that we’re recording this, they are facing a second lockdown and the writing is on the wall, folks, it ain’t going so hot in many other places. So there’s a really good chance that lockdown can be coming your way again. So number one, get your routes taken care of. That’s what I’ll be doing. Get my getting my little haircut done, getting my roots done. Get yourself put together because we could be in this for a while. That aside, okay, do what you want. If you if you if you don’t, if you don’t feel like doing all that and getting yourself gussied up, that’s fine. But you should know how it’s going to affect dating in the future. Because remember, this anxiety that I was talking about at the beginning of the show? Well, that is increasing as we are approaching cuffing season. And the options for virtual for for social distance dates are are going to be dwindling. So I suggest let’s get comfortable. Again, with the virtual zoom, zoom video chat dates. Maybe you could have an activity, watch a movie together. But over video chat, figure out some ways that you can still connect and feel together even if you have to do it apart. And maybe you should be thinking at this point about a support bubble. I think none of us could really have anticipated what was coming back in the spring. And it’s a wise idea for you to broaden out your social circle this may be with a partner. This may be also with a a f buddy. Maybe he didn’t you didn’t cough yet. But look, we still have needs. So maybe you have an agreement with somebody that’s in your circles so you can still get your needs met. During the winter months. The UK Government says sleep overs aren’t allowed. And so this is something that we’re going to have to learn how to work around so it’s decision time for some of you. And for others. It may be at time for expansion in figuring out how to date in a new way.

 

There was a super interesting article in self this week about relationship anarchy. I had never heard of this phrase before but Basically what it means is putting less emphasis on titles of different people in your life like partner, sibling, parent friend, and also putting less emphasis on your relationship significance. And I would say, relationship anarchy, it sounds kind of dramatic. And believe me, there was a lot of there’s high drama in this article. But I really love at the core, the message that it’s giving us, like they cited that you’re expected to prioritize ties your mother, just because she’s your mother, or your romantic partner, you are supposed to live with them, because they’re your romantic partner. But what if, what if it looked different? You know, we’re just talking about bubbles? What if you live with your platonic partner, but your romantic partner is someone that you see now more like, the way in the frequency that you see a friend. And I’ve been actually talking about something similar to this for a while, in not making your partner the center of your world, I think that’s really dangerous. When you’re expecting your partner to deliver everything to you, they’re supposed to be your confidant, your activity partner, your romantic partner, your co housekeeper. And that puts a lot of pressure on one person to fulfill all your needs. So I’ve always said make sure you keep investing in the other relationships. And I remember, situations with friends that would always get sucked into that black hole of relationships, I think you know what I’m talking about. And then they, they forget all of the other friendships, they give everything to that partner. And then when a breakup comes here, they come crawling back, like you’re my best friend, again. And I think there there is something to be said for relationship anarchy and the points that this person makes in this article that it’s a reminder, you can choose how much time you give to people, you can choose the focus that you give to people, obviously, you want to be on the same page with your romantic partner. So they feel they’re getting their needs met, as well. But let’s not, especially in a time like this, let’s not minimize your relationships with your friends and your family. And in the article, they’re talking about maybe getting rid of labels altogether. I don’t know if you want to go that far with it. But I think it’s ripe. I think it’s the right time for you to maybe re examine how much focus you put on finding that romantic partner, and the rule that you’re looking for them to fill in your life and take stock of what you already have and the people you already have that are bringing you love right now. Inside hook told us how to find love with the right dating profile. If you’re a guy, and what you should be putting in your dating profile. I thought this was a

 

Unknown Speaker  8:07  

What did I think?

 

Unknown Speaker  8:10  

I’m gonna take that back.

 

Damona  8:14  

Inside hook shared the photos that men should never put in a dating profile. A lot of these were standard and a lot of these I’ve said for a long time I have them in my book like hello no excessive group pics, I would say actually no group pics, I always say you have to be the star of your profile. We don’t want anyone else distracting the focus from you. Because I know like when I’m swiping for clients, I’m looking at you and your friends and I can’t tell which one you are and what if your friend is more attractive than you are, then you don’t want to set yourself up for that. You don’t want to have somebodies Phantom arm strangely cropped out of your photo. I see this a lot the Phantom hair, I can still tell and I’m still making determinations. Like if I see random blonde hair hanging over your shoulder, and my client is brunette. I’m thinking well, maybe this is not a fit and you just don’t want to place that. That moment of questioning in someone’s mind when they’re going through making split second decisions. Most women it takes seven seconds for them to make a decision about a profile for men it’s only five or less. So you really have to lead with that your best foot forward on your dating profile if you’re wanting to make a connection. Some other things to avoid according to inside hook. They said selfies I really want to know what you all think of this. I have come around to selfies being a normal and acceptable part of a dating profile. But they were saying bad selfies are almost less bad. Then good selfies because good selfies can be deceitfully flattering. But I mean, we’re in the middle of a pandemic, who’s running around with like a photo shoot a photographer following them around taking their dating profile photos. That surprised me. I’m still in favor of the selfies, just make sure that they’re taken with good lighting at the appropriate angle. And not in the bed. According to this article. No bed selfies. That’s not something I see a lot. Maybe Maybe you’re on different apps than my clients. But I’m not seeing too many bed selfies, but definitely no gym, mirror selfies. This is rampant, rampant issue in dating profiles, the gym mirror selfies while we’re at it, just no mirror selfies and also this is really interesting. They said no shirtless pics. dating.com did a little study on this and said that straight men who included shirtless photos of themselves and their dating profiles tended to perform far worse on online dating platforms and got 25% fewer matches than their fully clothed counterparts. We like the ABS just let us work for them a little bit more and leave something to the imagination. All right, that’s the headlines for this week. In a moment we will be back with author Francesca Bowman and a deep dive into the history of dating profiles and what you can learn from them today. We are back and I am here with someone who has one of the most interesting buy lines I have ever read. Francesca Bowman is a former TV host historian and part time bookseller. She is also the author of six books including a history of the pineapple and a history of British personal ads. Francesca Bowman’s latest deep dive into history is matrimony Inc. From personal ads to swiping right, a story of America looking for love. I’m so excited to introduce her here on dates and mates to you please help me give big smooches to Francesca Bowman,

 

Unknown Speaker  12:12  

thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here. I am so

 

Damona  12:16  

excited about this book. matrimony Inc. Because Well, I mean, I’ll just say the subtitle from personal ads to swiping right a story of America looking for love. It’s so resonated for me as someone who found love online and now on the show coaches, so many people to be able to use the tools of dating apps to find love. The parallels were obviously glaringly obvious.

 

Unknown Speaker  12:43  

parallels. Yeah,

 

Damona  12:44  

I just want to begin, first of all, where I know you’re a book person, where did you get the idea? From?

 

Unknown Speaker  12:53  

I have always been interested in personal ads, right? I’ve always kind of read them, you know, years ago, when they’d be in the back of the newspaper or magazines. I’d always trawl through them. Because there is something so amazing about these kind of tiny little detective stories, right? Just a few hundred words. And there’s somebody whose whole life in some ways, you know, they’re in the newspaper, I can remember some of my favorites like, woman who likes pastor seats, man who likes source, you know, these very, like, concise, cute little personal ads. And then one day on a whim, I started looking into them, and I found they dated back much, much further than anybody ever knew. And after just like a few weeks trawling through old American newspapers, I found America’s earliest personal ads, which no one knew existed, no one knew how far back it goes. But I found America’s first ever personal ad, which was from the Boston Evening Post in 1759. So really, a long time ago. And once I found that I realized that there was an amazing story to be told here, right? Because all these personal ads, then, you know, became computer dating, and then obviously, dating websites, and now dating apps. They give you so much evidence over 250 years about the history of our emotions, our desires, and most importantly, the history of mate choice, right? What men look for in a woman women and women look for in a man and how that’s changed. Well, or I’m afraid often not change over the past 250 years.

 

Unknown Speaker  14:20  

Okay,

 

Damona  14:21  

I you have said so much. And I’ve just like, I don’t even know where to begin with. So many so many questions. First of all, 1759. What does an ad from that era look like?

 

Unknown Speaker  14:35  

Right, great question. So I spent weeks and months trawling through old newspapers, in libraries basements of libraries all over America. And the Boston Evening Post was one of America’s earliest newspapers. And then one day, there it is, like on the front page of the newspaper, and it was Yeah, February the 23rd 1759. And what’s amazing is it gives you such an insight into what I do. guy in Boston looked for in a woman then right. So this is what he was looking for any young lady between the age of 18 and 23, have a middling stature, brown hair, regular features, and with a lively, brisk guy have good morals. So that’s like, the starting point, he then goes on to say, must be possessed of three or 400 pounds entirely at her disposal. So there’s all kinds of interesting things in that, like, wait, he’s looking for women between 18 and 23. So, you know, really young by all standards today, but at the time, the average age for a woman to marry was 22 and a half. So between 18 and 23, but he’s trying to catch him young, Captain young and fertile at the time, young and fertile, I’m afraid. I love the way he says of middling stature and brown hair, like what does he have against blondes back there in 1759, he’s very specific that he wants a woman with brown hair, regular features, good morals, of course, very important to be respectful at the time, and then three or 400 pounds. And so if you take that all together, basically what this Boston gentleman is looking for is a woman who is young, respectable and rich.

 

Unknown Speaker  16:11  

That’s what anyone would want of climbing.

 

Unknown Speaker  16:13  

Certainly there is some consistency in terms of what people look for.

 

Damona  16:19  

So based on what I hear now, from people who are tentative about dating apps and online dating, why would a guy in that era turned to a newspaper to find his match.

 

Unknown Speaker  16:36  

So for almost exactly the same reasons, as people do today, and we can see that in the evidence, when you start getting hundreds of thousands of personal ads, again, that no one really knew exists until I researched them. They really took off in Philadelphia in 1840s. And in those ads, lots of the men are very specific about why they’re placing these ads, right. And it basically comes down to, they’re new in town, they work long hours, they don’t have time to meet people. Sometimes it’s because they’re kind of shy, you know, sound familiar? Like it’s all the same reasons as people do today, really. And why it happens is with urbanization and industrialization, right. So once these cities grew, once the population of Boston hit 20,000, New York, 30,000, Philadelphia 50,000, you can’t any longer rely on like your mum to match you are or you know, your church to match you up or your friend or your neighbor next door to match you up, which is how it would have been done in the olden days. If you’re moving to the big city, you’re getting a new job as people were in the 18th century, you’ve got to kind of turn to some new forms of matchmaking. And so, you know, because people were kind of tentative about this, they will explain in their ads that like, they’ll say, Oh, I’m a stranger in the city, or one guy says, He talks about himself in the third person, he says, have a rather bashful retiring disposition, which has hitherto prevented him from mixing much in female company. So we shy fair enough. Another guy says,

 

Damona  18:10  

I’m wordsmith too. So I mean, they all match that one up.

 

Unknown Speaker  18:15  

Exactly. They all are such wordsmith. And that’s, you know, what’s so wonderful about many of these ads. And now the guy says, I’m being closely confined by his business, he cannot devote the time necessary to a protracted courtship, He therefore avail himself of the medium of a publication to express his wishes. So that guy’s just in a hurry, like, works really long hours, and he’s in a hurry. So we you know what, one of my favorite things about researching this was, was how relatable or these people are, you know, though they’re advertising for a lot of the same reasons that people are today, right? work really long hours, who has time to meet people, maybe they’ve moved to like a different part of the country. So they’re far away from like, that college friends or whatever, or you know, their mom or so it’s really the same reasons as today.

 

Damona  19:01  

Well, and our listeners have heard me say before that online dating now is the predominant way that people are meeting more than all the other methods you mentioned through friends through family through church. Yeah, and, and even though some people aren’t ready to embrace it, I feel like the the the interpretation of dating apps, the the reputation of dating apps has shifted a little bit. But even just going back I’ve also talked about on the show before how even a few generations ago most people met and married someone who lived in their own hometown, they lived within five miles of their house according to two records even back in the 1940s and the 1920s. So you’re going even further back, there must have been some sort of some sort of a feeling in the 1840s. If you had to go to a newspaper To find love, did that have a stigma around

 

Unknown Speaker  20:03  

it? You know, not as much as you might think when it first started, I mean, some other advertisers Do you know, you say things like, oh, secrecy assured or no trifle as need apply, you know, to show that they were serious and genuine about this, but like you say, um, there was a real a need for it. And it in some ways became a public service, you know, like a postal system, right? Because if you couldn’t just marry the girl next door, or, you know, the boy you went to school with, and people couldn’t, not just because of urbanization, but increasingly in the 19th century. And with the settling of the West, right, in some parts of the American West, there was such a gender disparity there. There was you know, like an Iowa there was three men for every one woman in California during the Gold Rush, there were 250 men for every one woman right. And so then, right, then it’s just a question of need. And and therefore, it’s a result that isn’t necessarily the stigma surrounding it that you that you might think when the stigma emerged really was after the peak of personal ads of advertising for love in the 1860s 1870s, when there were so many hundreds and thousands of these personal ads in every state in the nation, every local newspaper from Kansas to Wisconsin, why Wyoming North Dakota, every local newspaper had personal ads saying wife wanted or husband wanted, do the 1870s 1880s when the stigma came was actually around the turn of that century, around 1900 1910 when there was a huge crime wave that was reported around the person ads, it’s not necessarily that it was the first Crime Wave, but the first crime wave that was reported with the rise of newspapers and newspapers who like to scandal, right, so they didn’t report they didn’t report stories of people who met through a personal ad and lived happily ever after. Because that’s not interesting to anybody. Right? They were they sadly reported stories of you know, when there was like a crime like fraud or bigamy or even murder and there were a lot of those, you know, particularly in the New York Times around 1900 9010 and that’s what really gave advertising for love. It’s kind of bad rap for a long time. It meant people thought it was like scary or worrying or you know, that it would it would cause problems and it was dangerous and that was a kind of early 20th century thing really so it came in actually the stigma surrounding it emerged much later than you might think. Huh

 

Damona  22:27  

See that’s so resonates i i’m i’m always saying that we hear these stories because they’re rare or because like you said they make a good salacious story they sell newspapers they sat gets you to watch the television show

 

Unknown Speaker  22:42  

exactly not

 

Damona  22:43  

you don’t hear the the mundane stories because

 

Unknown Speaker  22:46  

they’re not as they’re not they’re

 

Unknown Speaker  22:48  

not as entertaining. It’s not as entertaining to people if they’re like, Oh, yeah, we met we met we fell in love When we lived happily ever after. And everyone’s like, oh, boring, you know, they want to hear their like salacious, scandalous stories, you don’t hear the kind of stable, happy, delightful loving stories, right? Because that, you know, human nature doesn’t sadly respond to those in the same way.

 

Damona  23:09  

That you you have some positive stories in in your books,

 

Unknown Speaker  23:13  

and many

 

Damona  23:14  

of them on your Instagram. So tell us tell me some of the good stories because we do we love a good rom com as well. There must have been some positive.

 

Unknown Speaker  23:23  

There was so many positive stories, hundreds and hundreds of them and and you know, many of your listeners will probably have grandparents or great grandparents who met through a personal ad. They maybe just don’t know about it. But people you know, would write to me and say oh, my great grandmother met her husband through a Perseids. So for example, one of my favorite stories is about a woman named Augusto Lawson, who was a Swedish immigrant. And in 1892, she answered a personal ad that had been placed in a Chicago based newspaper where she lives. It was from a guy called all roods, who was from Norway originally and had settled in Washington state where he farmed the land they were he was really a pioneer that there were hardly any women and to speak to your point of why do people advertise, like, what else was he supposed to do? Right, there are hardly any women around. So it was really smart and sensible to put an ad in a newspaper. You know, in one of the big cities. agasa Lawson saw this this personal ad, they wrote to each other for a few months. And then she amazingly decided that her best bet was to travel 2000 miles to go meet him. So she got the, you know, she got the train and then she got the coach and then she turned up in this tiny town in Washington State, but they met and they married and they had kids and they farmed the land, you know, places like Washington state would not exist without these kind of pioneers, right. You need them to, you know, build families and to build a nation and in that way personal ads all forms of advertising for level release. central to the, to the founding of America in that way, because without them, these couples, you know, wouldn’t have met. So that’s one of my favorite stories because it really speaks to, you know, the history of modern America in so many ways.

 

Damona  25:13  

I love that I’m always telling my children, I’m like 100 years ago, y’all would be here to just tell the field. Like, right, take your dish to the sink, so you don’t go out and shuck some corn or whatever.

 

Unknown Speaker  25:26  

Right? Exactly. So much is different. But then so much stays the same. And I mean, that also speaks to the number of women who advertised in newspapers, like in the 18th and 19th century, so, so many more women than you might think, put personal ads in newspapers, and you’ll see them in national newspapers, local newspapers, they have this headline that says husband wanted and kind of bold black type. And they really are amazing. Some are very different to what you might read, like on a Tinder profile today and someone kind of the same. So can I give you one of them?

 

Damona  26:01  

Oh, yes, yes. And then I want to talk about communication because you also got me thinking with the love letters, but I want to hear one more and then we can

 

Unknown Speaker  26:09  

Okay, so tell me if this is the kind of thing you might meet on a Tinder profile today. This was an ad placed by a woman is in Wisconsin in 1855. She talks about herself a little and then she describes what she she’s looking for in a guy. She says, I want to know brainless dandy or foppish full, but a practical man who can drive a coach or rock the cradle to the garden or attend the ballroom on the whole he must dress neat. Look well and keep his head up in society.

 

Damona  26:39  

That’s all I hear. Francesca they want a man’s man. Right? Don’t yet don’t don’t hate on don’t hate on what did she say? She says

 

Unknown Speaker  26:51  

no foppish? No. No brainless dandy or foppish fool.

 

Damona  26:59  

That’s funny. I it’s, it’s amazing to me how similars these some of these patterns are. But when you brought up the love story, and you mentioned how they wrote to each other, right for a while. That’s the part that I feel nostalgic for. And I feel like that’s the thing that’s changed, like people want to blame dating apps for the, for the dissolution of courtship. But I really think it’s more communication. And the way that we that we talk to one another, and the way that we build relationships, that has changed so much, even just in the last 10 years, so they would connect, and then they’d send letters back and forth, where they could really get to know one another. Right doesn’t just like, like, hey, Netflix and chill.

 

Unknown Speaker  27:47  

Right, exactly. And what it does is it builds a friendship, right from the very beginning, it builds a friendship through, there’s less writing, I would say, I mean, I’d be interested to know what you think about this, it does seem to me that that is one positive spin of the pandemic, right, is that because people are not able to meet up on a first date in the way that they used to, maybe they’re having to communicate in other ways, you know, on on zoom, or whatever it is, it creates more space to build a friendship in the same way you might have done if you were a seamstress in Iowa in 1870. And you were writing letters to a goldmine and California, back and forth and back and forth for weeks and months. If you build a relationship, you build a friendship before you actually meeting and I do wonder if if that’s to be optimistic about right now when dating and a pandemic obviously has so many challenges that what the one upside is it does give you space to build a friendship before anything else happens. And surely, that could be a wonderful thing.

 

Damona  28:51  

I really want people to hear and and process what you just said, because that is the opportunity that we have right now. And I think that’s where we were maybe three months ago. Unfortunately, what I’m seeing right now, and I’m not gonna call any of you out at this very moment, but I’m seeing actually there’s a little bit of panic setting in over cuffing season, like everybody’s trying to partner up before things get cold. And, and the fatigue, just the pandemic fatigue. being around people for so long, is causing people to do real really crazy things. And just like Well, you know what, it’s fine, we’ll just make out it’s fine. I’m sure it will be fine. And I have always said slow Love is the way to go. Just like you were saying. Taking the time to build that connection doesn’t mean that you have to be like writing letters across the miles. But just taking some time first to get to know each other before you build the intimacy and before you like rush into rivaling,

 

Unknown Speaker  29:52  

like to build a friendship to become friends because that’s what’s going to see you through the tough times as we all know it’s it’s it’s the friendship That means that relationships can then last 20 or 30 or 50 years. It’s the future that’s at the core of it. Well, and

 

Damona  30:07  

you’re happily married lady.

 

Unknown Speaker  30:08  

So I

 

Damona  30:09  

would take advice from you.

 

Unknown Speaker  30:12  

I mean, don’t take any advice from me.

 

Unknown Speaker  30:14  

How did you?

 

Damona  30:15  

How did you and your husband meet?

 

Unknown Speaker  30:16  

So we met, I used to be a TV host. Like 100 years ago, I used to be a TV host on British TV. And he was a TV director, and he directed a show that I was hosting. But it was the first one I’d ever done in a TV studio. And I was kind of a little bit vague about how microphones work. Like, I’m not an idiot, right? So when I talk about the director, I’d be like, oh, like, I really like him or three, see, if we’ll come up for a drink tonight, I would cover my microphone, I’m not a total idiot. But what I didn’t realize is that even then the microphone picks it up. So being this TV studio, you know, in between takes, like, with the makeup lady doing, you know, my makeup and suddenly doing my hair, and I’d be like chatting to my co hosts. And all of this would be broadcast into the entire like gallery that you know, the vision mixer and including my, you know, husband, to me, but you know, again, at least in you, I liked him from really early on.

 

Unknown Speaker  31:12  

I love that.

 

Unknown Speaker  31:13  

I love that. In a sense, you

 

Damona  31:15  

kind of made the first move or

 

Unknown Speaker  31:17  

you know, right? Yes, by mistake. I made the first move.

 

Damona  31:22  

But you let it be known how you feel because today I feel like so many people are like, I don’t want him No, I like him. I’m just gonna play cool. If she knew I was into her, she wouldn’t like me back and I’m just like, enough, enough of the of the pretense let’s just, let’s just be real. So right. By default,

 

Unknown Speaker  31:40  

your real when a guy really likes you, he really likes you. So you know, my, you know, my husband’s I mean, I think he was just busy. And I hadn’t occurred to him. And then we went out for drinks. And then like, oh, and then we had to keep it a secret for ages. Because like, you don’t want to be like, you know, having a thing with somebody at work. Right? Who does that unless it’s serious. So the first few weeks, we kind of kept it secret. And so I’d be like, in the makeup chair before the show, and he’d have to like come in and be like, how’s everyone this morning? Everyone? Okay, and I’d have to be like waiting. Yeah, exactly. Wait, wait. So we can’t do the secret until we knew it was, you know, pretty serious.

 

Damona  32:13  

And your husband works in Hollywood. Right. So

 

Unknown Speaker  32:15  

Kim? Tv director, yeah, yeah. So he started out working on Bora. And with Sacha Baron Cohen, which, of course, that’s very current at the moment. And then he went into movies, and he directed the Muppets movie, and LSU the looking glass with Johnny Depp. And don’t forget

 

Damona  32:34  

Dora. Actually, as a parent, I love Dora. I thought it was so. so charming. And I didn’t even realize that he he had directed it. And then when I saw you directed, I was like, of course, it

 

Unknown Speaker  32:46  

was so charming. And sweet and funny. And and he really makes movies in His own image, I think just charming and generous and kind and funny. Yes,

 

Damona  32:57  

yes. And so that’s interesting. Okay, so your husband will say his name is James bobbin. Right. That’s right. Yeah. He so working in Hollywood, I imagine that’s

 

Unknown Speaker  33:07  

kind of

 

Damona  33:09  

that impacts the relationship in some way. And my husband is also he’s a TV writer. I don’t I rarely talk about what he does. So my listeners might not

 

Unknown Speaker  33:18  

even know.

 

Unknown Speaker  33:22  

It was James wacky. And I’m like, I don’t really know, we didn’t talk about things like that.

 

Unknown Speaker  33:26  

Right. Exactly. Exactly. Like

 

Damona  33:28  

my husband wrote on the walking dead for three seasons, literally, maybe saw a few episodes. Like, why

 

Unknown Speaker  33:36  

not watching. But you

 

Damona  33:38  

know, it’s it’s interesting when you’re in a way, in living a relationship in the public eye. And, and I bring this up, because also, some of our listeners, even though they might not be able to relate to being in Hollywood, social media does add this element of playing out your relationship publicly. Do you feel like that’s, that’s ever been an element, you know, especially having been a TV host. And, and now, you know, moving into being an author and having your bookshop? Does does that? Do you think impact your your relationship in any way, the public element?

 

Unknown Speaker  34:17  

You know, I really don’t, to be honest, I really don’t. I mean, we’ve been together 20 years, we met when we were young. And so again, I think there’s such a friendship built on that that social media is something that we both do for work purposes. But it’s it’s social media, it’s very much a work thing for both of us. So it feels pretty separate to our kind of real life in inverted commas. I mean, obviously there’s exceptions to that. But I suppose particularly because what he does is is now pretty different to what I do and you know it kind of Hollywood dinner parties when I Samurai to people, of course, they all you know, what movies Did you write and when I say I’m a historian, people kind of think maybe I’m joking. And they’re not sure whether to kind of laugh or not. Because you know, it’s a it’s an unusual job in, in Hollywood, right? I get the same thing. When

 

Damona  35:09  

I say I’m a dating coach people are like, really like, a deep soul conversation, doesn’t it?

 

Unknown Speaker  35:18  

Yes, you can’t say it without without it becoming your whole thesis, I have to take a deep breath and go. And sometimes you find you lie, because you can’t remember to talk about it. Sometimes I want to be like, I’m an accountant. So that then like people don’t ask me about it. Because I know, you know, once the subject comes up, people will ask me about it.

 

Damona  35:34  

So what is the topic then when you’re at these Hollywood dinner parties? What’s the topic that all the movie stars want to discuss with you?

 

Unknown Speaker  35:40  

Okay, I’ll tell you what they all want to know, is, what do men look for in a woman? And what do women look for in a man? Because I, you know, I feel like I do have a unique insight into that, because I can put the historical perspective on it, right? So there’s all the kind of current data or research about mate choice, but I have a uniquely historical perspective of 250 years of what people have looked for and how that’s changed. What goods give us? Well, they’ll say, What do men look for? What do women look for? The trouble is the answer I have to give because it’s the truth is not as kind of depressing. So because much of my choice is predicated on evolution, there’s always going to be an element of it, right, which is men looking for, for women who are fertile. And women looking for men who can support offspring, I have resources, right. And now that is obviously a huge generalization. And as with every year goes by, there’s more and more exceptions to that, of course, and even the definition of that changes. So, you know, women looking for men with resources in the 18th century, that would have meant cash or property. But these days, it can mean a good sense of humor, or like a lot of Instagram followers, or like, you know, really clever, you know, designing websites or whatever it is, it just means, you know, be able to support offspring, if that if that comes to the relationship, and then the same, obviously, as women choose not to have children or to have children later, like obviously, you know, men looking for women who are fertile. That’s very, you know, reductive and a huge generalization. But looking at the evidence, because so much of it is about evolution. And that’s not going to change if one has to generalize. That’s the answer. And I wish it weren’t, I wish I could give you a different answer. I’m all I would emphasize is that, of course, there are so many exceptions to that in terms of ages and situations. And with each year that goes by you get more and more exceptions to thank goodness,

 

Damona  37:46  

I love hearing the historical perspective, because I think, you know, we are all a product of our history, right? And everything that we’ve learned from previous generations and everything that is biologically entrenched within our society. Exactly, no, ignore it, but we have to, I feel that we have to see it, and embrace it. But I think we are at an interesting time, Francesca because I think we are we are at this place. Where are ours? Our actions have sort of moved beyond our biology, our societies move beyond our biology. And we’re in this really weird dissonant period where everybody’s trying to figure it out. Right. And I guess that’s what keeps me doing this show for

 

Unknown Speaker  38:28  

eight seasons. But maybe you want to me is like how, you know how quickly we’re going to move beyond that entirely in that, like, why hasn’t marriage already died out? You know, we talked about, you know, people, you know, that marriage will have disappeared and don’t yet it it kind of seems to like cling on in this weird way. And so I’m actually I’m interested in, in a weird way, how slowly things are changing how slowly dating is changing how slowly it’s changing what people look for in relationships, you know, I would have thought that there might have been a more radical shift and in some strange ways, you know, humans do seem to be oddly kind of conservative with a small see sometimes about the way they form their their relationships. I I’m waiting for that to be a more radical shift. And I hope it I hope it happens but, but we’ll see. We will see

 

Damona  39:20  

Well, I appreciate everything you’ve shared with us. I think this book literally, it’s fascinating. Everybody run and check out matrimony ink, from personal ads, just swiping right a story of America looking for love so many more stories than even what Francesca was able to share. And don’t forget to follow her on Instagram at Franz bookshop, your you’re a gem and I’m so glad that you were able to join us on the show and share your insights.

 

Unknown Speaker  39:48  

Thank you so much for having me. It’s been really fun.

 

Damona  39:50  

We will of course put the link to this amazing book in the show notes. You can get it on Amazon matrimony, Inc. From personal ads, too. swiping right a story of America looking for love. By the way, I am super excited to announce something new demonios coI will be curating lists of my favorite love content and books of prior guests. My favorite love. I’ll be curating lists of my favorite resources on love. Everything from podcasts, to books, to videos that you can watch to books that prior guests let me receive free By the way, I am super excited to announce demonios content club. I think I need something else in there. By the way, I am super excited to announce something new de Mona’s content club.ntent club,  I will be curating lists of my favorite resources on love everything from podcasts, to videos to books from prior guests and you My friends, you can have access to all that juiciness. All you have to do is become one of my patreon friends with benefits for just five bucks a month. You can get in the club, you can come to my behind the mic weekly, live streams on Facebook, you can get tons of other resources and items for them from the dates and mates library. And you can get into demonios content club you can find all of that info@patreon.com slash dates and mates and again, it’s just five bucks. Five bucks support the show and get some more goodies for yourself patreon.com slash dates and mates. This episode is number 335 of this show on this episode is number 335 of dates and mates. I would love to hear from you. I am already taking audios and taking questions. I would love for us to connect on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram. Because I need to know what’s on your mind. I need to be answering your questions in love. And I am taking questions right now for our next dear demona episode. You can DM me a voice memo of your question you can you can message it to me You can even give me a call. Give me a call girlfriend 424-246-6255 leave it on my voicemail right there. And you could be on a future episode of dates and mates and get your love problems solved. So hit me up at damona Hoffman on all the socials. I will be back again next week with the fabulous Monique Kelly who’s going to talk all about how you can celebrate your singlehood but until next week, I wish you world peace and happy dating

The Phases of Dating During COVID

SAFE ONLINE DATING IN 2020 AND 2021

Since I began my practice, there have been only two major disruptors to the online dating process that have required me to modify my approach: Tinder and COVID. 

Online dating was always one of my favorite mediums for singles to meet but Tinder and the apps that followed made online dating accessible to all and forever impacted the dating landscape. 

COVID has changed everything about how to date online, use the apps, and filter for matches. Today, the number one question I hear is: “How does dating during COVID work?” Luckily for daters, the stages of dating in 2020 have stayed the same, but the way we navigate them could be a little different.

These are the phases in online dating in 2020 and 2021:

Phase 1: Online Matching and Introduction

The speed of swiping is still just as quick as before but I find that daters are slower to move on to in-person dating in the pandemic as they take time to assess someone’s dating risk.

Phase 2: Texting/Messaging

This stage, which used to drag on for weeks or months, is truncated now because a call or video date is less risky than a traditional date. Before, people had to weigh the value proposition of an in-person date based on the investment of time and money. Now that those factors are removed, there is less pressure on this decision and singles are speeding through this part of the process.

Phase 3: The Phone Call

I have been a long-time advocate of the phone call prior to the first date. It is impossible to tell compatibility over text, yet before now, many people were skipping the phone call in favor of speed and efficiency. Now phone calls have once again become an accepted phase in the dating process as a lead up to a video chat or social distance date. 

For my clients who are nervous about giving out their phone number, I recommend downloading the TextNow App which gives you a free alternative number that will ring to your primary phone. That way if you ever change your mind about a match, you can change your number safely and easily and keep it moving.

Phase 4: Social Distance Date

Once you have talked on the phone or video chatted, you will need to meet up in person to see if the connection is real within a month or less. Most catfish situations come up when the daters have never connected off the app so I encourage clients to move offline as soon as it feels safe and comfortable.

For months, singles have waited for things to return to normal. So if you ever wondered how to date online in the middle of a world-wide pandemic AND election year, my answer is: it’s a lot like the old model of online dating with more precaution.

Now, more than ever, those who are uncoupled have felt the weight of their decision to stay single or the frustration of being unable to find a suitable partner. However, we are in the new normal and dating will not return to the old model anytime in the foreseeable future.

The positive side of this shift is that it has slowed down the filtering phase. What had become a rapid-fire round of swiping directly to a date and the inevitable ghosting that followed has been replaced by more mindful conversations and meaningful phone calls and video chats.

Ultimately, you have to create your own safety plan for dating in the time of Coronavirus but if you move offline quickly, I recommend downloading the TextNow App to communicate safely then meet up in a COVID-safe environment, you can still find love in today’s world.

 


This blog is sponsored by TextNow. The app solves many major challenges that my clients face in dating today:

  • You can keep your main number private
  • You can separate your personal and dating contacts
  • Plus, It’s easy to use and FREE.

I’m proud to collaborate with an app that empowers modern daters to feel safe and secure. If you want more information, check out my video when to give out your number to people you meet on dating apps. Click here!

Singles In America

CALLING ALL SINGLES IN AMERICA

Match released their 2020 Singles in America study and we are so excited to share some key points that we found super relevant to Dates & Mates listeners:

SEX WITH ROOMMATES 

The study found 1 in 4 singles had sex with a non-romantic roommate. That’s about 24% of singles who had sex with their roommate during lockdown. Sexologists call this “situational sexual behavior”, which means social or environmental factors cause people to express sexual behaviors differently than their previous preferences. 

Damona says to be mindful of your choices, because they do have repercussions.

 

CHANGES IN ATTRACTION AND IDEAL MATE QUALITIES

Singles are now practicing slow love: 63% said they are spending more time getting to know their partners. About 69% of app daters said they are more honest with their potential partners on things like the kind of relationship they’re looking for, the qualities they’re looking for, and chatting with people they won’t meet with in person.

Now 53% of singles say prioritizing their search for a relationship more now than they did before the pandemic. Singles are focusing less on physical attraction than before.

 

INTERRACIAL DATING/SOCIAL JUSTICE AS A MATCH FILTER

This is the first time Match has studied this particular subject and we are so excited to see that more people are open to new dating possibilities!

In the past, singles tended to seek partnerships with people with cultural similarities (same race, religion, socioeconomic status, etc.). This is called homogamy.

Now 64% of singles say they cannot have a relationship with someone who has a very different view about racial equality. Women feel stronger about this than men (72% of women vs. 59% of men).

Since the murder of George Floyd and the re-start of the Black Lives Matter movement, 24% of singles are now open to dating people of a different race or ethnicity. 

How has the changing political climate affected your views on interracial dating? Are choices in dating accurately reflecting these views? If you don’t know, check out Damona’s article in the Washington Post on Racial Bias in Dating.

Spouse Hunting & Singles in America

SPOUSE HUNTING FOR SINGLES IN AMERICA

🚨 NEW DATING APPROACH ALERT 🚨⁠

On this week’s episode of the Dates & Mates podcast, we’re joined by Brian Belefant, real estate agent and author, who explains how dating is exactly like house hunting according to his 99 rules of real estate.

Believe me when I tell you I LOVED this interview and can’t wait to see what y’all think 💗⁠


Here’s a rundown of today’s episode:

Dating Dish (2:25)

Reba McEntire is all about that social distance date

Reba’s officially on the market and has endorsed the social distance date after healing from a divorce with Narvel Blackstock. Wait… did you catch that name? You’re not going to believe the connection to Kelly Clarkson here.

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What is Emophilia? Is it contagious???

Do you fall in love fast and hard? You need to hear this.

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Match FINALLY releases they’re annual ‘Singles in America’ study

Damona reports on the latest:

  • A surprisingly high number of singles are having sex with a non-romantic roommate
  • Singles have new priorities what it comes to attraction
  • The decline of homogamy

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SPOUSE HUNTING (12:15)

Don’t forget to order your copy of Spouse Hunting: Using the Rules of Real Estate To Find the Love of Your Life

 

TECHNICALLY DATING (31:23)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • It seems like a lot of men are more lax about their standards right now and I struggle to find people who seem in line with me. Suggestions on how to figure out where I stand with people?
  • I need some social distance date inspiration! What are virtual or in-person activities that go beyond a picnic, hike, or staring at each other through screens? 

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WANT TO GO DEEPER? READ ALONG HERE:

Damona 0:09
you can keep waiting for the fairy tale. Or you can get on board with the new rules of relationships. If you’ve read my advice in the LA Times, then you know, this ain’t your mama’s love advice. This is dates and mates with damona Hoffman. Hello, lovers, I am so excited for today’s episode. It’s a really different kind of conversation today. And the idea actually began way back when I was online dating. You see, I used to tell my friends when I was trying to get them to see the benefits of online dating, I would say girls, it’s just like man shopping. It’s like having a catalogue of eligible bachelors. And I could just pick and choose the ones that I wanted. But the difference is, you don’t have to know if a shirt likes you back when you buy it. So my guest for today has flipped my perspective on this whole conversation and made me realize it’s much more like how shopping, then clothing shopping, because you do need that mutual match to make it work. And just think about the top qualities you look for in a mate. And then the things you look for in real estate, location, style, size. Hey, I’m talking about the house Get your mind out of the gutter. But first before we talk about the similarities between how shopping and mate shopping. I’m going to talk about today’s headlines including Reba McEntire is all about the social distance dating. And what is emo philia. And is it contagious? Plus, the moment we’ve all been waiting for. Well, at least the moment that I’ve been waiting for. Match finally releases its 2020s singles in America study and there are some goodies in here. Then at the end of the show, I will answer your questions including have daters today forgotten all their home training, and some social distance date inspiration. Those are the headlines today and the questions I’ll be answering and now it’s time for the dish. These dating dish.

Reba McEntire is on the dating market and she is doing the dang thing too. She just revealed that she has been dating actor Rex Lin, you might know him from young Sheldon. And they have been doing it social distance dating style. They actually had a face to face dinner date back when the world was a regular place in January or February. And since that time, she revealed that they’ve connected over text and video chat and phone and things are moving along. And I just thought this was a just super cute because isn’t Reba super cute. And B I also thought it was interesting that she talked about the difference in courtship and the way that taking her time and getting to know him slowly, even across distance allowed her to see the real benefits in him. And to get to know him on a deeper level. Even though they’re not together all of the time. They are still able to form that bond, and boy does Reba need it because she got divorced from narvel Blackstock. Is this a name that you know, because it sounded familiar to me when I read it because I realized I also read a story this week that narvel is suing Kelly Clarkson. Why not because he is her former father in law. Did you hear that Blackstock name we talked about Kelly a few weeks ago, but because he’s her former manager, I am seeing a pattern here. He helped Reebok to launch into stardom from country music to mainstream television shows. And the same for Kelly Clarkson. And now he’s common for her and saying she owes him millions of dollars, which made me wonder how did she get millions of dollars for hosting TV shows. As soon as I figure that out, and as soon as I’m able to give Kelly Clarkson some dating advice. I will report back but in the meantime, I think you can take a page out of rebbes book and use social distance dating as a way to really form a deeper bond and find somebody that’s maybe not so money hungry. emo philia you did you catch it? emo philia is the tendency to fall in love fast and often. So I don’t think it’s contagious. I didn’t mean to worry you. You can’t protect your With mask from getting it, but you can become aware if you have the tendency to what experts are calling emotional promiscuity. You, if you find yourself you succumb to others charms very quickly, or you’re likely to ignore relationship red flags, oh my goodness, this happens so much with my private clients, we’ll go through all of the red flags and the must haves. And then you meet someone and boom, you’re just emotionally attached to them. This is a little bit different from anxious attachment. Because if for those who read the book attached, which is a fantastic book, Dr. Amir Levine. He talks about the different styles of attachment anxious and avoidant, but the anxious attachment styles jump into relationships really quickly. But it’s not because of a reward motivation. It’s it’s motivated by inhibition or avoidance of a negative emotional state, especially specifically, specifically fear and anxiety. We’re all moving away from that. So please be on the lookout if you feel that you are an emo Fili AK. And you fall in love too fast and too often. Maybe you need to read up on what Reba McEntire is doing and slow it down. Dr. Helen Fisher always says practice slow love. And I say the same thing. Hey, speaking of Dr. Helen Fisher, she has once again partnered up with a match to do their singles in America study. And she’s a biological anthropologist.

And what they do every year is they take a huge sample of singles, thousands of people, and they pull them on all of these attitudes about being single in America. And then they let people like me talk about this data for for all time. So here are the headlines, I want you to know, there are a couple things in this year’s report that really surprised me. Did you know that a quarter of singles had sex with a non romantic roommate over the last six months in the pan Demi. I cannot believe that that many people would cross that barrier with somebody that they are not romantically involved with. But sexologist call this situational sexual behavior I had never heard of this I’m learning to as we go along. And the meaning of that is that social or environmental factors can cause people to express sexual behaviors different from their previous preferences, and behaviors under most normal circumstances. And this made me worried y’all not just for those who are having sex with their roommates, and men are now going to still be stuck with them for months and months and have to figure out how to normalize all of this. But it made me wonder what other sort of unexpected sexual behaviors people are engaging in because, you know, we we are approaching this period of, of skin hunger and the drought of touch. And I’ll be talking in next week’s episode, a little bit more about that and how that affects us. But just really be mindful of your choices, because they do have repercussions. Most people two thirds a single said they’re ready to go on an in person date. And of course, there was a huge, huge increase in video dating over the last three years, they found they said only 25% increase. I think it’s been way more than that in the middle of the pandemic. But maybe that’s the number that we’ve settled on. So a lot of you have been asking me, is it okay to now move from a video chat to an actual social distance date? Yes, you have my permission, you may move offline. I would prefer you still wear a mask or social distance at least six feet and be outdoors. But you do you boo. The one thing that is really key we talked about this a couple weeks ago, you have to find somebody that is sharing your political beliefs. According to this study. 76% of singles believe it’s important for a partner to share their same political beliefs. But here’s something that was super crazy about that. nearly a quarter of singles change their political affiliation during the pandemic. This is a juicy juicy study this year. I’ve also been asking them to give me some data about interracial dating. And finally for this year, for the first time, they have included that there has been an increase to singles being open to dating people of a different ethnicity 58% increase so lucky all the numbers don’t lie. Let’s all get with the program date for the future. cuffing season is upon us and In a moment, I will be back with my guest Brian bellefonte, who is a real estate agent with a new book and a new approach to dating. According to the way he helps people find houses, don’t go anywhere, y’all. I’m here with Brian Belafonte. He is a real estate agent with some pretty big ideas on house hunting, and spouse hunting. Following an unexpected divorce. He wondered if he could use his set of 99 rules of real estate that he developed to re enter the dating world with the goal of finding a new spouse. He’s written it all down in his brand new book spouse hunting using the rules of real estate to find the love of your life. And now he’s going to give us a sneak peek. Please help me give big smooches to Brian Belafonte.

Unknown Speaker 10:48
Oh, tomato, thank you so much for having me.

Damona 10:50
Okay, this is a different kind of conversation. And I knew the minute I heard about your book, I was like Dayton mates, listeners need to know this. So your book is spouse hunting, using the rules of real estate to find the love of your life. I think this is so smart and such a such a great approach. But I want to break it down so that people are able to follow these steps and then get your book and, and and do it to a tee. One of the important things that in real estate there, you know, buying and selling are two separate transactions. And I think it’s important to keep that in mind when you’re dating too. It’s like you don’t want to buy

Unknown Speaker 11:29
a spouse. And I know that’s, you know, that’s gonna raise some hackles. But you don’t want to find a partner who doesn’t want to find you. So you’re simultaneously Buying and selling. And so when it comes to buying, what you’re doing is you’re evaluating the market to see what the landscape is, then you’re looking at the properties that are actually on the market at that moment. And then among those, you’re choosing the ones that fit you the best.

Damona 11:51
Well, first, we just have to get everyone in the mindset of being the buyer, because I’m totally on board with this. And like I’m always telling people, you want to be the one that’s doing the picking, right, you’re selecting, but you bring up a really good point, Brian, you have to select among the pool that’s out there like yeah, I guess there are those people that go up and knock on doors. I did this actually, I was looking for my house. It did not work. No towball. Listen, this did not work. But I, I had my realtor go and knock on somebody’s door because I was like, I love that house. And that’s like sort of the equivalent of like approaching somebody with a wedding ring and being like, Yeah, I love your ring. Take it off. I love your house. And they were like, Are you kidding me? Get out of here. We’re not selling

Unknown Speaker 12:39
can happen. And I actually have done that. You know, when I was first getting into business school around the neighborhood, just talk to people find out you know where they are with their house, how happy they are? If they’re interested in something, yeah, most of the time now. So let’s translate

Damona 12:52
that to dating. let’s translate that to dating. Should you be having conversations kicking the tires with people not knowing where they stand? If they’re single or not?

Unknown Speaker 13:03
Yes, and no, the way I see it is, it’s a lot easier to go out to the market that is available and looking because you do want to partner up with somebody who’s looking to partner up. And there are a lot of reasons One of them being the wedding ring that people aren’t interested for a while after my divorce. I was, you know, occasionally dating, but I certainly wasn’t looking for a relationship. And so there were a couple of times when people come up and kick my tires, and yeah, we’ll go get coffee, we’ll have dinner, whatever, but it wasn’t gonna go anywhere. And I tried to be clear about it as clear as I could have been. The reality is, though, if you’re looking for a partnership, you got to find somebody who’s looking for a partnership to otherwise you’re just gonna end up being disappointed most of the time.

Damona 13:49
I fully agree, which is why I highly recommend dating apps. And I know people are some people listening might say, well, you’re just saying that because you met your spouse that way. And, and I’ve worked with a lot of the different dating apps, but I really say it for the exact reason that that you say work with the existing market, because you already know most of those people are at least interested in casual data. And yes, I know everybody’s gonna be like, but there are people who will go on the dating apps and they’re married or they’re looking to be polyamorous or they’re not looking for anything serious. Yes, but the majority of the people there are looking for casual dating, or more versus people were like just teach me how to like everyone’s fascinated with my, my social media dating techniques and how to make a match that way. I gotta tell you, it’s a lot harder. It’s far more work than going to a pool of already up already qualified sellers, I guess if you’re the buyer

Unknown Speaker 14:59
Yeah. You’re absolutely right. And I I’m a big fan of the dating apps too, because I met my current girlfriend on Redfin. Exactly. Redfin and Zillow did the same thing, as you know, Keller Williams and the little boutique agencies. And yes, they all have sort of access to the same properties. Because Yeah, you I do believe like what you say and you’re, you’ve said in a couple of your episodes, don’t just limit yourself to one map. Kind of a couple of them got

Damona 15:26
Yes. Yeah. And and like, like you’re saying, Redfin is sort of an aggregator of a lot of different ones. So it is good to be on multiple, multiple apps at the same time. So let’s flip the thinking. Now, Brian, we’ve talked about the buyer perspective. Let’s talk about the seller perspective. What have you learned from as a real estate agent? What Tell me about how the mindset of the seller and the experience of the seller aligns from the dating perspective?

Unknown Speaker 16:00
Well, I think that from a seller’s perspective, a lot of it has to do with marketing, it’s getting yourself out there so that people who are looking know that you’re available. And one of the things that we see in the real estate market is there are buyers markets, and there are sellers markets. And so if you’re in a seller’s market, that means that there you know, there are more buyers out there, then there are properties that to buy. And so all you kind of have to do is plant the flag and people will come. But if you’re in a buyer’s market, then you’re going to have to fight for people’s attention. And I believe that what you can do, especially when it comes to these apps, but all these other channels as well, is do the marketing, you know, position yourself within the market create the messaging that explains clearly who you are, and what you are offering. And when I say offering, it’s like, I do believe that when it comes to dating and real estate, you’re not so much buying the thing, you’re buying the lifestyle, you’re buying the promise that the thing gives you, what is my life going to be like with this person or in this house?

Damona 17:07
And I think you said that, yeah, go on, go on.

Unknown Speaker 17:10
Well, so that’s what i think that you know, that’s what you can do this with the opportunity it gives you with these apps, but also I mean, and I know it apps are easy to talk about, because they give you the opportunity pretty easily. But it’s like, Alright, if you are looking for me, here’s what your life is going to be like when you’re with me. So if you you know, if there’s a picture of me making a face in a bathroom in a selfie, that tells a whole different story from me hanging out with friends, you know, on a dock watching the sunset, I mean, what life Am I offering you that you can see yourself as being part of

Damona 17:46
I love that you picked up both on the storytelling telling element that I mentioned on the show, like tell your story through your dating profile photos. But beyond that, I also do visualizations with my clients. And some of my listeners have heard my ideal mate visualization, where you’re putting yourself in the future of what does it feel like to be with that person? And that’s exactly why I do it. Right. It’s amazing how much overlap there is between house hunting and spouse hunting.

Unknown Speaker 18:18
Yeah, it was just a fantastic epiphany when I realized that it is the same process. I mean, you’re going for a feeling.

Damona 18:24
Right? Yeah. Right. And in a way, you know, my background is as a casting director, in a way, it’s the same thing there. It’s like, how does that person feel in that

Unknown Speaker 18:33
role?

Damona 18:34
But in the book, you talk about time how to stop wasting time with people who aren’t qualified or interested? Yeah. This is one of the number one things I hear from listeners, like everybody’s like, I do not have time to waste on these people who are not a fit. How do we stop wasting the time using the rules of real estate? Brian?

Unknown Speaker 18:57
Well, I think first thing you have to do is have clarity. And the first bit of clarity is what it is that you want. And, you know, if you want a relationship that’s different from getting laid. And I’m not saying there’s you know, one’s better than the other, it’s what you want, you need to know. And if it is that you want a relationship, then it’s easy to evaluate the people you’re looking at and going. Does this look like a person who wants a relationship? If the answer’s no, move on? It’s that easy.

Damona 19:25
Yes, it can be that easy. We make it more complicated. I imagine you see that as well like with, with buyers that sometimes we make it too complicated.

Unknown Speaker 19:35
Sometimes we do and the other thing that it’s hard to account for is that feeling you get inside, you know, you walk into a place and it’s like, oh my god, it’s perfect. And you do that with people and unfortunately, sometimes it It isn’t the right person. It just you know, you get sort of taken down this path that isn’t the best thing for you and doesn’t meet the criteria that you think you’ve established for yourself, but you can’t help yourself.

Damona 20:01
We can’t help ourselves, what are some of the other negatives that you run into with buyers? Like what are the things as a real estate agent that are frustrating about the the buying and selling experience that might be able to be applied to dating, and hopefully help people learn where some of their shortcomings as a data might be?

Unknown Speaker 20:26
I think the biggest one that comes up is when people make a decision based on a feeling without having the information. And I see this, like with house sellers, it’s really easy. People got my house is worth $650,000. Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. But the value that you think the house has is the one thing that has nothing to do with what somebody will pay for it. You know, and doesn’t matter what you put into it, what matters is what somebody else thinks it’s worth. And this works both ways people think of themselves, you know, not objectively, they don’t mean, I’m not worthy of somebody who’s whatever. Or they think that, you know, I’m too good for that. And I think the important thing there is just have a realistic perspective, like, this is who I am. And I’m not saying that, you know, don’t have high hopes, you should always have high hopes, you should find the perfect person for who you are. But you should also be the perfect person for who they are. Mm hmm.

Damona 21:28
And you’re not making this up. You you’ve, you’ve tested these strategies, you’ve tested them on yourself with a book,

Unknown Speaker 21:37
I’m always I’m one of those people that likes to figure out how things work. When I first got into real estate, I was not ready for any kind of relationship. So I just dove in to work. And I would write down these rules of real estate to help me figure out how to approach approach to the process with my clients. And then when I think you know, things settle down, and emotionally, I was ready to find a relationship. That’s when I had the epiphany. It’s like, Okay, this process can work for finding a partner. And wouldn’t you know, it did, I mean, I’ve got this amazing girlfriend is perfect me, she thinks she’s perfect, I’m perfect for her. And it was using those rules that got me here. So that’s why it turned into a book.

Damona 22:24
See, I love the Curiosity there too. Like, a lot of times we get caught up in in the feeling like you were saying, and also in the feeling of being single, like the commiserating with our girlfriends, the the feeling that the the talking about dating apps, and how frustrating and awful they are. And that becomes an echo chamber of our thoughts. But you actually found a way out by taking this, you know, the love lab of your life, and really systematizing it, which is essentially what I’m always talking about on the show.

Unknown Speaker 22:59
And the important thing too, is that this is a process, it’s not a solution. It’s not like read this book, and you’re going to find the person. Now, read this book or follow your advice. And you’re going to find an approach that will help you find a person. But it’s the approach that’s going to make things more efficient, it’s going to help you identify the people that aren’t appropriate, it’s going to help you hone your messaging so that you’re saying the thing that will appeal to the person that will appeal to you, those kinds of things.

Damona 23:30
So all of all of these things are important as you’re in real estate, you have to have sort of the headline, the hook. And then you have to have the description, you have to have the photos. And then but then there’s all these other elements to the package of like, you know, location, location, location, right? And all of these other things, the schools educate, I’m just thinking of all the parallels right now. And my nerdy brain is just going wild. What I’m curious about Brian, is does this same system work equally from them? And

Unknown Speaker 24:05
I’m convinced it does. Um,

Unknown Speaker 24:09
when I first came up with a draft of the book, I pass it around to, you know, people who I could trust for advice. And as it turns out, my circle at that time was a lot of women. Strangely, a lot of people that I’ve met on dating sites, and we just became friends. And the responses were pretty uniformly Yeah, this is good. This helps the seller I’m not ready for this, but thank you. I can’t see why this wouldn’t work. I tried really hard to make it sort of agnostic in terms of gender or sexual identity. And the people that I’ve talked to have been pretty supportive and saying, Yeah, you did a pretty good job with that.

Damona 24:50
And they’re 99 years old, a little bit about, you’ve told us like, I don’t know. But why 99 is that an auspicious

Unknown Speaker 24:59
number? I

Unknown Speaker 25:00
mean it, when I sort of wrote them all down, it came out to 98. And I thought 99 felt better. So I duplicated one. And the duplication is sort of meant to emphasize the rule itself, you know, in a

Unknown Speaker 25:16
meta way.

Unknown Speaker 25:20
Yeah, that was you can’t step into the same river twice. And what that means is, when you’re looking for a house, right now, you can look from among the houses that are available in the market, but six months from now, most of those will be sold, and new ones will be listed. And that’s the same thing with dating, when you go onto a dating site. Yeah, you’re gonna see the same person every once in a while, but the pool changes people get into relationships, people die, people, you know, get divorced, whatever. But what you’re looking at now is different from what it’s going to be then. And inversely, or conversely, or whatever, presumably, you’re going to be slightly different as well, you’ve matured, you’ve learned you’ve, you know, whatever. And you found things that are more important now than they were six months ago.

Damona 26:10
Well, keeping that timeline in mind, since our lives are dramatically different than they were six months ago. And when I look to the future, I hope, I hope I hope our lives are dramatically different than they are right now. I’m curious if these rules because you wrote this at a time when COVID wasn’t a thing, how did these rules still apply? In a time? So I

Unknown Speaker 26:33
think one thing they help in many ways, I think one of the things that COVID has done is it’s forced us to be a little less quick to jump into intimate relationships with people. Which I think is you know, when it comes if you’re looking for a relationship, you don’t get distracted by as easily or as quickly by you know, that interpersonal stuff, the feel of somebody’s skin, oh, my God, you know, that that could mess with your brain? Yeah, I can.

Damona 27:11
And it does, it does. And when we we forget, like, we want to be so evolved, but we are still biologically wired. And in a way the world that we live in is almost working against biology in some ways, and we’re having to adapt and and relearn, just like you know, you’ve had to adapt throughout your life you’ve had, you’ve had some big life changes, you’ve had a divorce, and then a big move and a new career. And you’re constantly making it work. So I I love the philosophy that you have. I love the book. And I really,

Unknown Speaker 27:53
really appreciate you having me on.

Damona 27:58
lovers, we have more ground to cover in just a moment, I will be back answering your questions on everything from what kind of standards should you uphold in dating today and social distance, date inspiration, you got to get out there and be dating but we can’t have another boring, boring interview style date. You want to know what you can do that will be a little bit more fun. Stick around.

Welcome back. We are here with your favorite segment where I answer your questions do

Unknown Speaker 28:37
damona helped me?

Damona 28:39
This question was emailed to me Dimona at damona Hoffman calm. It seems like a lot of men are more lacs about their standards right now. And I struggle to find people who seem in line with me suggestions on how to figure out where I stand with people. This is very interesting, because the idea of other people being lacs about their standards, I don’t know if this person is referring to standards around COVID dating, which I am finding lean a little bit more towards women being being more

a little bit more more conservative on how far they’re willing to go or how intimate they’re willing to get with someone without knowing their COVID status. But if we’re just talking about standards in general, I think that you get back what you put out. So if you’re allowing people to have lacks standards to treat you in a way that is disrespectful or you’re continuing to say swipe right on people that seem to have put very little effort forward in their profile, then you will get stuck in an echo chamber of receiving those same things. You can go back to the algorithms episode or gaycupid episode when I talked about how You’re, you’re getting more of what you don’t want, sometimes when you are swiping the wrong way on the wrong people. But in terms of how to figure out where you stand with people, I say just go for it. I I’m a big fan of doing either a video chat, or a phone call before the first day and people are always asking me like, last week, I was on the Drew Barrymore show and this woman said, How do I move to the phone call without making it awkward? It’s only awkward if you make it awkward. You tell people what your standards are, you teach people how to treat you. And those who are willing to step up will step up. And those who either feel that you’re too much, or feel that they cannot reach that barrier, they will gracefully step themselves out. But the only way that you’ll know is by boldly making the line and figuring out like, when I do the the video chat, I don’t just say, oh, let’s video chat sometime, or here’s my number call me. I have my clients say call me between six and eight. And then you know, is this person in integrity? Are they good with time? Are they going to respect your boundaries? And in a way it’s a test. It’s not like a test test, but it’s it’s an indication of what their standards are. And that can tell you a lot about their compatibility for you in the future. My next question also was an emailed question. Did I mentioned demona to Mohammed calm, or you can Instagram me? Or you can DM me on Instagram at damona Hoffman? Moving on. This person says I need some social distance data inspiration, what are virtual or in person activities that go beyond a picnic hike or staring at each other through screens? Well, I think that we can get more creative with the staring at each other through screens. I like to gamify that first date, maybe doing 20 questions playing, playing taboo, doing a sip and paint night, somehow bringing in an activity that takes the pressure off the staring at each other through screens. I’m a big fan of the hike. I think hikes are great. The weather is going to turn a lot of places. So enjoy. Enjoy it while you still can. I’m from the Midwest, you guys know. So I have been through all the seasons. Now I live in California, and I don’t I don’t deal with that anymore. But I can relate. So y’all need to step up your your cuffing season game right now. Go for the hike. But okay, you don’t want to do hike, look, do yoga in the park. You can stargaze in your own backyard like I have a an app that tells me what the constellations are on my phone, you could do that. You could do do a virtual escape room or do like a virtual I did this virtual game through let’s called let’s roam. It’s an app. It’s really fun. And it’s like a scavenger hunt. And so that can make your virtual date really fun. Or it can make your in person date really fun. If you do it together. Do a book club, get creative, get creative, and it’s not going to just happen naturally. You have to you have to make the dates more fun, you have to come up with ideas that get you out of the box. Because believe me, it’s easy. I understand. I am tired in this quarantine. And I’m tired of this quarantine. I fully understand how it’s much easier to just Netflix and chill. And it’s much easier to just be like, oh, let’s go for a walk or let’s go to the park. But if you put in just as much more more effort, you can get a lot more bang for your buck and find you’ll have more to talk about you’ll have a better time and you will feel less like you’re wasting. You’re wasting time you’re wasting connections if you are just going to the dates by rote so I hope those social distance date ideas give you some inspiration. And be sure to check out the dates and rates blog for more tips and more social distance date ideas and dating advice. This is Episode 331 updates and mates. Check out Brian’s book to y’all. This is so revolutionary. I so loved my conversation with Brian. We will put the link to the book on Amazon but you can also look up spouse hunting using the rules of real estate to find the love of your life. I want to hear your questions. We’re doing something special in a few weeks with the deer demona I’ll tell you about in a few weeks, but in the meantime, I want to hear your questions. So DM me at damona Hoffman on all the socials. And by the way, do not forget we need those ratings and reviews so we can heal all those hearts. You’re a part of a movement So, do your part. Just take us I swear 90 seconds it’ll take you 90 seconds. You can do a rating and a review and thank you to all of those who have done that already. I loved reading from marquees who said even while you’re locked away, listening to Dimona can help you find love. She’s the absolute best. You’re the absolute best marquees you leave me a review like that, I’ll be sure to shout you out on the show. I’ll be back again next week with Dr. Laura Berman. We’re going to talk about skin hunger, and so much more. You may remember her from her own radio show. She’s also been on the Steve Harvey show. This is a hot one. Make sure you’re subscribed so you get that the minute it posts. Until next week. I wish you early voting and happy dating

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

 

Cosmopolitan Mag & Safe Sexting

U UP?

So remember back in the old days – like last year – when you were in the mood for a booty call and all you had to do was send a simple “u up?” text??

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Are you now prefacing your “u up” text with a COVID questionnaire? – have you come into contact with anyone with Covid-19? Have you been out of the country in the last 4 weeks? Do you have a cough, fever, shortness of breath, or any other symptoms possibly related to Coronavirus?

Just kidding please don’t do that. We’d much rather you start with virtual dating than put you at risk or risk turning a new partner off completely.

But to make these new connections, we’re having to reexamine our strict “no sexting” policy? If you can’t have real casual sex in today’s world, can you have virtual sex?

Today we called in Taylor Andrews – sex & relationship editor at Cosmopolitan Magazine! She’s here to give us the new rules on romance in 2020 and tell us about the trends that have come across her desk and her forthcoming book Cosmo’s Fantasy Sex Games.

Disclaimer: We don’t get too graphic in this episode but we do talk about sexting and the book Cosmo’s Fantasy Sex Games soooo, now you can’t say you weren’t warned. 

But first, we dish!

DATING DISH (1:28)

The Universities with the best dating scene

StuDoc has found that Utah Valley University, Brigham Young University, California State University Fullerton, Northeastern University, and University of Virginia have the best dating scenes. It might surprise you to know that BYU was actually the student population that popularized Tinder! This is relevant to you and your dating life. Damona explains why.

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Are you sexy?

There is now actual proof that if you feel hot (read: aroused), you are more likely to find the confidence to make a date happen. Damona breaks it down.

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Stars, they’re just like us

Drew Barrymore shares that she, too, gets stood up by random dudes on dating apps. WTF?

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SAFE SEXTING TIPS (11:00)

Everything you need to know about safe sexting from Cosmopolitan Magazines very own, Taylor Andrews!

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We discuss:

  • Why right now is definitely the best time to date
  • Sexting, how do you do it?
  • Hookup advice
  • Did we take a peek at Chris Evans’ dick pic??? Maybeeee…
  • Sexy Fantasies

Pre Order your copy of Cosmo’s Fantasy Sex Games Here! https://amzn.to/3cA3jsN

Make sure to check out Taylor’s work in Cosmopolitan Magazine for all the juicy news!

TECHNICALLY DATING (29:40)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • Email: I am 39 years old and have been on dating apps for 13 years. I haven’t been physical with someone in over 3 years. Someone asked me to come over sat night for drinks, bonfire, and sex and I’m wondering if I should just go for it? I’m worried I’ll catch feelings.
  • Women’s Group: I met a guy on Hinge a few months ago. We’ve had 2 socially distanced dates in person and everything seemed to be going great. We both got really busy with work, but he said “if we want more we have to see each other more and talk more”. I agreed but since then he’s been distant. I set a date with him for dinner, but when I called him to make a plan he didn’t answer and hasn’t called since. Should I try again to make this happen or is it over/?

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:00  

Hello lovers, it’s Dimona. I have a new goal of reaching 10,000 more hopeful romantics before the end of 2020. But I need your help. There are three quick and free ways to support the show and spread the message of love. Number one, subscribe. Okay, look at your phone right now. And tap the subscribe button if you’re not subscribed already. And then you’ll get every episode The minute it goes live. Number two, rate and review. If you’re liste ning on Apple podcasts, go ahead and scroll all the way down to the bottom where it says ratings and reviews. Then click as many of those five stars as you want. Maybe five if you’re feeling frisky, and then you can even click write a review to tell everyone why you listen. And number three, share tell your friends about us. Click the three dots by this episode and dm it to a friend who needs to hear this advice. do three and keep dates and mates free for eight more seasons. And we can reach our goal together of healing those 10,000 hearts. Hey, Hey, Hey, welcome to dates and mates. So remember back in the old days, like last year, when you were in the mood for a booty call and all you had to do was send a simple you up text. Now are you processing your uop text with a COVID questionnaire like have you come into contact with anyone with COVID-19? Have you been out of the country in the last four weeks? Do you have a cough fever, shortness of breath or any other symptoms possibly related to Coronavirus? kidding. I’m kidding. I’m kidding. Do not do that. Please. I would much rather you start with virtual dating then put you at risk or risk turning off a new partner completely. But to make these new connections, I’m having to re examine my strict no sexting policy. If you can have real casual sex in today’s world, can you have real virtual sex? Today, I called in Taylor Andrews, sex and relationship editor at Cosmo magazine. She’s here to give us the new rules on romance in 2020. And tell us about the trends that have come across her desk and her forthcoming book, the cosmos fantasy sex games. First though, we got to get you all up to speed on what’s going on in the news. We reveal the universities with the best dating scene. And will you really look sexier? If you feel sexier? Plus stars they’re just like us. Drew Barrymore reveals her big dating app debacle. Then at the end of the show, I will answer your questions including I need intimacy, but I’m worried I’ll catch feelings. And is he busy? Or just not that into me? disclaimer folks. We don’t get to graphic In this episode, but we do talk about sexting. And of course the book Cosmos fantasy sex games. So now you can’t say that you weren’t warned. Let’s dish Our first story actually comes to us from Stu docu which is an online platform with study tools for students. They surveyed over 100,000 students from 15,000 universities to find the schools with the liveliest dating scene and some of the top five might surprise you. Number one was Utah Valley University. Number two was Brigham Young University number three, Cal State Fullerton where I have spoken before number four, Northeastern University, and number five University of Virginia. I don’t even have to look at all the results to know that my own college didn’t make the cut because the dating scene there was dead.

 

But here’s what’s really interesting, Brigham Young University for those of you who have been listening to the show for a while, you know that this is not the first time that I’ve highlighted Brigham Young University in a dating dish. Because back in 2013, this school, which has a high number of Mormon students, a big Mormon population was actually the school that put Tinder on the map. And here on dates and mates in 2013, you could hear me talk about how this new app was taking the dating world by storm. And it was sort of launched there at Brigham Young. And so it wasn’t actually even a hookup app, as a lot of people were saying in the beginning. They did seed it at a lot of universities, and it really took off at Brigham Young. And they even reported later that year in 2013, that it had led to a number of marriages of people who had matched on Tinder and then moved into serious relationships and become engaged with even just a few months. So I totally buy the stew doc you survey I will put a link to it in the show notes. But I would say if you want to know what’s going on dating and relationships, you should probably figure out what’s going on at Brigham Young University. There’s more news that’s fit to print, psychologists have been examining something that’s called the biased perception of romantic success. What they mean by that is this idea that when you feel sexy, you will be considered sexy by other people. And, you know, we you’ve probably heard me say that on the show before, I’m sure lots of dating experts say like, you know, you feel good, then you’ll look good. It’s, it’s, it’s a mindset. You know, mindset is everything. But according to research, it’s really, really true. And when you present yourself as feeling sexy, you actually are reducing your fear of rejection. And you’ve heard me say this on the show as well, that, that we need to just be more confident and not get attached to the outcome. Okay, here is how this study worked. And I can’t believe there are people that get paid to do this kind of research. But hey, I get paid to do this. So anything goes, they showed sexually stimulating images to people in a clinical setting, before introducing them to a stranger of the opposite sex. And then they had a neutral conversation just about like, hobbies, career goals, blah, blah, blah. But they found that those who had been exposed to sexual stimulus rather than neutral stimulus, something not so sexy, those who were exposed to it were more likely to initiate more intimate contact and be more interested in initiating a romantic relationship at the end of the session. And what this does is it confirms that when you feel sexy, you’re more likely to take a risk. And so often I say that, that success in dating, some of it is just if the other person is feeling the vibe from you and feeling like you’re into them, a lot of times that can amp up their interest in you. Well, one person who I think, should have lots of interest on dating apps is Drew Barrymore. But it turns out, it has not gone the way that she planned it, she revealed on and watch what happens live with Andy Cohen that she had been on Riah and she thought the app would fulfill her lifelong dream of going on a blind date. It’s really hard to go on a blind date when you’re Drew Barrymore because everybody knows everything about you. And you don’t know who these people are, but Riah, you know, is for the celebrities. But she said that her first day was a train wreck, she said she got stood up. And actually, I can also reveal on the show, she told me this story not too long ago, because I am also one of the dating experts of the Drew Barrymore show. I’ll be on my first show live this Wednesday at 9am. Eastern in New York live, but check your local listings to see when I will be on in your area. But here’s the thing if this can happen to Drew, and let me tell you, she is so sweet. And she’s so charming and everything that you see about her and ROM coms. It has been my experience of working with her on her show as well. It happens to everyone and and you have to do the same sort of work whether you’re Drew Barrymore or the girl next door, you have to make sure that you’re pre qualifying people before you get to the date. If this person would stand up Drew Barrymore they certainly will do it to you. And then you know if this person doesn’t show up for you, that this is not meant to be but it doesn’t mean to you should throw the baby out with the bathwater. It doesn’t mean you should give up on dating apps. And I hope drew doesn’t give up on Riah but she certainly hasn’t given up on love. So look out for me on Wednesday, spreading some more romantic cheer on her show. Those are the headlines for this week. But when we come back, we will be with Taylor Andrews from Cosmos Oh, get ready for some juicy talk in just a moment.

 

I am here with Taylor Andrew, she’s cosmopolitans, assistant editor of all their juicy dating relationships, sex and love content. Please help me give big smooches to Taylor Andrews. Hey, Joe, how’s it going? It’s going girl. First of all your articles are fire. And we have referenced them a lot on the show in the past, but you are really on the cutting edge tailor of what is happening in dating and relationships. And people are always asking me, like what is the deal with dating apps? And should we even be trying today? Is it too complicated? Now there’s woke fishing. I have to know their COVID status is dating just to complete hated right now.

 

Unknown Speaker  10:02  

Honestly, I would almost argue on popular opinion that right now is the best time to find someone in a relationship, if that’s what you’re looking for. And I’m going to tell you why. I think right now, people are not leading with physical like intimacy. Obviously, we’re in a pandemic, you can’t go meet someone in person, if you are, you’re meeting six feet apart, and you’re outside, it’s just different circumstances. But right now, you’re really getting a relationship, like via text message via zoom via FaceTime. And you’re communicating and talking to these people before you even add in the whole physical element. So you’re getting to know them, you’re getting to know like, what they like who they are way more in depth than you would if you were seeing them on a first date. So I would actually argue that right now is the best time to actually successfully find a solid relationship.

 

Damona  10:52  

You know, what I will cosign on what you just said, I actually was just talking to a former client yesterday, who is in the best relationship of her life, she met this guy two and a half months ago, in the middle of a pandemic, on a dating dating app. And she said, it’s just a totally different trajectory, like it’s unfolding in a completely different way. And she’s, you can really tell, if you are, if you’re on a date with somebody, you don’t have all the distractions of everything else that we use to get our attention or keep our attention on a date. It’s just the two of you talking and connecting, you really can’t have the other distractions. And you know, is this really the real deal or not? So she said, she’s, like, deeper in this relationship than she’s been on any other relationship before,

 

Unknown Speaker  11:45  

right? I mean, everyone’s on dating apps. Right? Now, if you’re single, you’re on a dating app. And actually, for cosmopolitan readers, 51% of our readers are on dating apps. So that’s like a high percentage, considering that some of our readers are also in relationships. So if you consider how many people are on dating apps, you’re going through a lot of different people, you get to fine tune and select who you want, who matches like your personality, what you’re into, I just think you’re gonna you’re getting so much opportunity right now today that you can absolutely find someone who is like, on the same level as you. And yeah, I mean, like I said, whether you’re on dating apps, because you’re bored and lonely, and you don’t have anyone to talk to you, or whether you’re actively trying to get a relationship, I completely agree with you now would be a great time to, I think, if that is what you’re looking for, to get into a relationship.

 

Damona  12:37  

And I do feel like, as you said earlier, there, there isn’t as much of that physical interaction with strangers. So I feel like a lot of those people have fallen off the apps. And one reason that a lot of people feel like, it’s not a great time because they don’t feel like as much is happening. Because we were we were at a an unsustainable pace of dating, I feel like before the pandemic, and I feel like something had to happen to stop that crazy cycle of like, swipe, swipe, swipe date, date, date, totally, you know, with wash, rinse, repeat. I wish it wasn’t a pandemic, of course, but it happened. But there’s so many other factors right now. Like, like, it’s 2020. Like everything that can happen, will happen. And there’s so much else that is affecting dating today. Right from race. We’ve talked at nauseam on the show about race and dating to the the election coming up. And we had your friend in mind, Michael Kay from Okay, Cupid, on the show to talk about that. What do you think do you think that people are finding are looking for the wrong? Like? Are they focused on the wrong things right now? Or is it just like that we are at a time where we have to, we have to kind of cut out the clutter and find somebody that’s totally aligned with us on so many different levels?

 

Unknown Speaker  14:06  

Well, it’s interesting you say that, because I’m actually currently working on an article of it’s a debate and it’s can you actually be in a relationship with someone who has opposing political views? I, I would argue, especially with the year 2020. I would argue that you can but you wouldn’t. You would be surprised by how many people believe that yes, you can be in a relationship with someone who has opposing political views. So while I do think that this year has definitely made it so that women are maybe, I don’t know not being as picky or anything just because they are lonely on dating apps, I do think if you want a successful relationship, now would be the time to like I said, fine tune and find people who agree with you and align with you on topics like race and LGBTQ policies and and everything in that regard and even more, so than Now you can do that because you are talking to them via dating apps and texting. And it’s a less intimidating conversation than asking someone in person. So how do you feel about our current administration? And what are your views about who should be the next president, etc, etc. Yeah,

 

Damona  15:16  

they used to say don’t talk about those things on first dates. But I almost feel like now, it’s like you must talk about these things, first dates, just just to figure out if they even meet meet the basic criteria.

 

Unknown Speaker  15:28  

Totally. So the

 

Damona  15:30  

The other thing that now we are dealing with since we are distanced from whoever we are matching with or talking to, is how to keep that chemistry and communication and flirtation going in the digital space. You have written this very hot and sexy new book, Cosmos fantasy sex games. And we’ll give everybody a little peek inside. But I think one one element that is really pertinent to our listeners is sexting. Like, yeah. What are the rules for sexting now, especially like, if you are talking to so to, essentially a stranger, someone you met on a dating app? Maybe you haven’t actually moved offline with them? Are there different rules for them versus someone that you’re already in a relationship with?

 

Unknown Speaker  16:20  

I think, okay, the number one thing I can say is, men, can we stop with the dick pics? I mean, right? Can we please please like, Listen to me, listen to everyone who’s been saying this for however long, the dick fix needs to stop. Unless it’s consensual. And unless the woman specifically asks to see your penis, women do not want to be surprised by a dick pic and their phone. So that’s like sexting rule number one, do not send unsolicited nude pictures to the other person. So that’s the biggest thing. As far as everything else, it really just depends on what you’re into. And what you and your partner have consensually agreed upon. So what I always like to encourage is I know people really struggle with sex either, like I just can’t figure out like what to say, I feel so awkward. I just I don’t know, I would just start if this is someone that you’ve slept with before, I would start by, you know, recounting your experience with them. So Oh, remember when you did this with me, or remember when you touched me here or remember when we were in the laundry room or whatever you’re doing, and then just start from there. It’s like retelling the story. So then it gets you started. And then the other person is seeing what you’re doing. And they can add in. And then you can start saying things like, Oh, well, wouldn’t it be so hot? If we try this next time? Or what do you think about this? So I think that’s a really easy way to transition into sexting with someone that you’ve already slept with. And in the case that you haven’t slept with someone, I always like to go for like, encourage the conversation. That’s Oh, I wish she were here. I think that that is always the way to get someone to be like, Oh, well, it piques their interest. And so we do fiber there. Exactly, exactly. It’s not you’re not being you know, super, super direct. You’re not saying let’s sex right now. It’s just Oh, I wish you were here and it gets the conversation started in a non intimidating way. It’s really easy for the other person to like, jump in into the conversation. So that would definitely be like, my starter. I mean, what do you what do you think about sexting? What, like, what are your tips?

 

Damona  18:29  

Well, I I’m kind of cautious about sexting, like, in terms of sensitive images. Like, look, we just saw this not that long ago with Chris, Chris. And like, you know, the dick bickered route.

 

Unknown Speaker  18:47  

That was an accident, like,

 

Damona  18:49  

I actually do, because I’ve had, I’ve had, like, I’ve had pictures that I did not intend to put, I’ve had, like, have you had this happen on Instagram, where you were like, like chatting with someone or in a store in stories, and then all of a sudden, it was like calling them I need to fix this? Because I’m like, sorry, I’m not trying to suddenly call you like, it’s just in the middle of the conversation. You’re right. So I think it could have been an accident, but I think it maybe it was a happy accident. after all. I think it’s probably for him going to enhance his life more. It’s been it’s going to hurt him. But you know, you do work for cosmopolitan, female focused female first, like, what would happen if that was a woman? It would be a completely different conversation. If you know, it’s like a teddy pic.

 

Unknown Speaker  19:38  

Right? I would and we’ve had celebs things like this get leaked. Um, you know, like it happens. Um, and it Yeah, I don’t know that. That’s an interesting conversation because it is like the difference between you know, he, I don’t I don’t know. It’s um,

 

Damona  19:58  

it’s complex, isn’t it?

 

Unknown Speaker  20:00  

It is I wish I had more of an opinion on it, but I just can’t even.

 

Unknown Speaker  20:04  

It just doesn’t happen.

 

Unknown Speaker  20:06  

It doesn’t. So, as far as explicit images go, I’m sure everyone was really happy to see that. But that was like, you know, that’s breaking a barrier. Even though it was accidental, you know, that’s even if you would put that into terms of like dating someone in general. Again, like I said, you should not be sending dick pics. So the fact that that happened is not not a good example.

 

Damona  20:30  

Yeah, cuz then you took the dick pic it What was your intent with the dick pic? That’s that’s the other question.

 

Unknown Speaker  20:35  

Exactly. Do you

 

Damona  20:36  

like what you said, Taylor, in terms of using it to build anticipation is how I would how I would phrase that like saying, Oh, I can’t wait to see you again. And really thinking of sexting as an element in for prep for thinking of sexting as an element of foreplay, and really, look giving yourself something to look forward to. And then the other thing I love about what you said, was storytelling. That’s so much of I mean, you know, the book is the fantasy sex games, it’s the fantasy, it’s telling the story of what’s going to happen. And I know, for me, I sometimes feel a little awkward, maybe, maybe it’s because of my husband’s reaction. He’s like, so uncomfortable with it. But it can be awkward, right? to, like, send that first sext and to step into the roleplay space. How you

 

Unknown Speaker  21:28  

gonna? Absolutely can’t and that’s normal. You know, if, if I could say anything, we actually have this segment in the book called finished the fantasy, where we set the whole fantasy up, we type we have it written out. So you just read it with your significant other, or whomever you want to sex with, or whatever. And then you finish it. So we already did all the hard work for you, we initiated the conversation, so then you just finish it.

 

Damona  21:53  

That is so perfect. And this is why I also help people with dating apps, like just getting started, like having the prompts or having the outline. And then once you’re in it, it’s it does feel more natural. Right. Yeah. You know what to say? Yeah, but it’s that, that anticipation and and awkwardness of just getting started that sometimes keeps people from

 

Unknown Speaker  22:18  

trying?

 

Damona  22:20  

The thing, like the thing I loved about the book is, it is so playful, and there’s so many ideas in there. Like you might read through it, and you’re like, Whoa, not that for me, but you might read some and think, oh, I’ve never thought of that. I’ve never tried that. I was like, how did Taylor get all these ideas?

 

Girl, you know, no, you know, I read the book. But when if you’re with a partner, some of it is just that willingness to explore and try something new, you know, especially in quarantine, we’ve been locked up. And it’s been like, same old, same old For how long? We’re all stressed out overworked. Why not? Why not? Try something new with your partner?

 

Unknown Speaker  23:11  

Absolutely. And I think it also goes into, you know, I don’t know, we’re speaking to women of you know, all sexual orientations. And they’re in relationships, and they’re single and whomever or, and whatever. But, um, I just think that like, quarantine is the best time to really have fun with all of this, and you’re with your partner all the time, might as well just make it fun and do something different than what your normal circumstances like, there’s no reason why you can’t have fun and go pick out a Halloween costume that’s leftover in your closet from five years ago and have a little roleplay situation with that. And and while I understand that it can be intimidating. I think it starts with you know, kind of breaking down that wall that you have that’s preventing you from you know, wanting to take that step and wanting to maybe dive a little kinkier deeper into your relationship and sex life. I think it starts with removing that barrier and removing whatever that wall is that’s preventing you from wanting to do that and then just like going for and owning your horniness and owning who you are and what you want, and getting that orgasm.

 

Damona  24:16  

It’s natural girl it’s natural

 

Unknown Speaker  24:18  

is yes.

 

Damona  24:20  

Yeah. And sometimes you just need to mix things up a little bit. Let’s say you’re on the other side of the conversation and your partner is the one that’s like, let’s be a little bit more adventurous. How do you get to that place where you can go like Dude, should you just go with the flow with what your partner wants to try?

 

Unknown Speaker  24:43  

I think that you should definitely establish beforehand hard boundaries. So anything that you’re absolutely not okay with doing. This can easily be done in something like a yes no maybe list which we actually also included in the book, but we’ve written about it countless times where you And you can print this off. Or you can do it from the book what we included, but there are a bunch of topics that we have listed and you go through with your partner and you say yes, no, or maybe. And if you would rather not do it with your partner, you just like print out a copy, and you do it yourself. And then your your partner does it. And then you compare where all of your yeses are, where all of your maybes are and where all of your nodes are, and the yeses you discuss, like, Yeah, I would be into that. So obviously, like, that’s consenting, once you have a conversation about it, you’re consenting to doing that in the bedroom. That maybe is okay, let’s talk about this. And let’s figure out like, why it’s a maybe and what would make it absolute? Yes. And then the no is a hard boundary, you’re not doing that. So I actually think a yes no, maybe list is maybe the easiest way to transition into like a super sexy thing that you haven’t brought up with your partner, or if you’re part if your partner wants to bring something up to you. But as far as you know, if your partner is just bringing something up, and as long as you don’t, like, have a hard boundary with whatever that person suggested, I say go for it and see if it’s something you’re into, the only way you’re going to know is if you try, and I think you should just completely, like get rid of an idea of, you know, like something that’s taboo and just try it, depending on what your partner brought up.

 

Damona  26:19  

Let’s say you get some of those maybes. And I love that you have this checklist in the book, you get a maybe I’ve also heard from listeners, how awkward it is to have conversations about sex before you’re having sex. Like whether it’s a maybe from that checklist with your existing partner, or like I’m about to have sex with this person, for the first time. How do you bridge those conversations and make them still sexy? Or should you just not even have those conversations when you’re in the bedroom? Should they happen before,

 

Unknown Speaker  26:49  

I do think they should always happen before the bedroom. Like I say consent is the number one thing. So I would always encourage that. But I do understand how that can be like icky, and it looks like you’re just like having a conversation about sex, which makes it so unsexy. But like I said, I think if you’re going to be having sex with someone, you should be able to feel comfortable talking about sex with them. Now, as far as when you’re in the bedroom, I I think what’s really sexy is, you know, doing something and trying something you’re into whether that’s like, I don’t know, like going down their body and saying, Oh, do you like when I touch you like this? Do you enjoy this? Does this feel good? Those types of questions that check in with your partner, make sure that you’re always doing consensual, safe sex, and that your partner is actually into it as much as you are. So I think if you are going to kind of just test the boundaries a little bit, I would always make sure to like, ask, how would you like it if I did this? And, and, you know, does this feel good. And you and that can be sexy. I mean, you’re making out with the first and you’re touching them, you’re on top, and then they’re on top of you, you know, if you just say on a super sexy voice and just let this like animalistic side of you come out that, you know, that’s asking for consent and still being sexy at the same time.

 

Damona  28:04  

What about when you’re in those situations, like I can remember many a time when I was single Taylor, where like, even in a situation where someone was getting consent. There’s sometimes this feeling I’m just gonna like just gonna put it out there and say it sometimes there’s this feeling, it’s like, oh, I don’t really want to do this. But it’s, it’s probably just easier to say us and like get this over with than to actually, like, end it rock the boat or just, you know, just stop the forward motion. You know what I’m saying? I don’t know if you’ve been in that situation, or if you’ve written about any situations like that before, but I think we’re in a new paradigm right now of women. Like, you know, I’m a little bit part of the old guard of like, you know, back then we just like rolled over And we took it. But now like in the conversation of consent, I think there is an element of I don’t want to say responsibility. But I think women are being called to speak up in those moments. And I love it any words of encouragement, you’re such as strong, competent woman like words of encouragement for other women that maybe are in the boat that I was in or that just find it hard to find their voice in those moments.

 

Unknown Speaker  29:20  

I think the biggest thing that I can say to that is that your pleasure is just as much worth it as your partner’s pleasure. So you need to really focus on what feels good to you and not so much what feels good to your partner. I think so often women are told, you know, like you mentioned, we have to lay on our backs and we have to be the one that is making sure the man orgasms or or who whomever their partner is, and and that’s that doesn’t need to be the case our orgasms are just as just as important as our partners. And so if something makes you uncomfy don’t do it You do not have to do it. There’s nothing that says like no you are in charge of a man’s orgasm because you’re not and and i think Like I said, that just goes back to women feeling like they have to please their partner, and they have to focus more on their pleasure. But no, you you deserve an orgasm just as much you need to make sure and like control that, that you are seeking just as much pleasure as you are seeking to give your partner. Okay, and then for

 

Damona  30:17  

our guy spies in the audience, we have a lot of male listeners actually, as well, that one, that they’re good guys tailor, they want to make things also safe and comfortable for women. Are there any tips that you can give those guys for how to create this kind of space? With a new partner?

 

Unknown Speaker  30:41  

Yeah, I mean, I, I’m big on communication, like I said, so I really think that a good good sex starts with communication. And I think it’s just being super open about having a conversation before you have sex about what each other is into and what you want to try, and what feels good. So I would just make sure to actively check in with your partner when you’re having sex to make sure that everything is going great. And and, yeah, I mean, I think sometimes as women we like in heterosexual relationships we like to feel taken care of, and like he’s almost in control. But I don’t think that needs to be the case all the time. So I think having those conversations beforehand can really be beneficial. So I would just tell whoever the guy listeners are that you know, be very open about what you’re interested in and wanting to please your woman and talking to her about what gets her off? Because she knows better than you do.

 

Damona  31:44  

Mm hmm. All right, ladies, no, no best is what they want. We just have to find her voice and speak up about it, and maybe get some new ideas. And I for one got many of them from reading Taylor’s new book, Cosmo, fantasy sex games, y’all. It’s hot, is right for the times. And there’s so much more also at cosmopolitan calm that people can read. And I just have to be you didn’t, you didn’t ask me for this feedback. But I’m just going to give it to you. I’m also a subscriber of for the for the magazine. And I have to say, Taylor, like I know you and I connected because you were looking to highlight some more voices of color. And as I was going through my Cosmo magazine last month, I was really shocked at the number of people who looked like me. And I feel like there’s really been an effort to be as inclusive as possible and to really diversify the images, not just in the content, but also in the advertising. So I just wanted to say how much I really, truly appreciate the work that cosmopolitan is doing on that front,

 

Unknown Speaker  32:59  

of course, and we appreciate experts like you being able to weigh in. I mean, you’ve helped so much with our content. And I hope that all your subscribers know that they can see you on Cosmo articles and be like, yeah, that’s Dimona. She’s awesome. She knows everything. So I love talking to you about the

 

Damona  33:15  

articles. I don’t know if I know everything, but at least I can have conversations with smart ladies like you and we can learn from one another and pass it on. So thank you so much for being here. Taylor, it was really a pleasure to have you on the show.

 

Unknown Speaker  33:28  

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

 

Damona  33:31  

Lovers don’t go anywhere. I have your questions. But more importantly, I have your answers. Please stick around. We are back. This is dear demona. This one comes to me from a new listener. In an Instagram dm she says I’m 39 years old and I’ve been on dating apps for 13 years. girlfriend. That’s a long time. She says I haven’t been physical with someone in over three years. But someone asked me to come over Saturday night for drinks, bonfire and sex. And I’m wondering if I should just go for it. I’m worried I’ll catch feelings. Who? That got sexy real fast, didn’t it? First, I would say it’s really good that you know what your tendency is that you know that when you get intimate with someone, you can catch feelings really quickly. First, obviously COVID is happening right now. So you have to have a real way to assess someone’s risk. Like I had a conversation with a client and she was like, Yes, that’s just risk risk. And it was fine to go out on a date and I’m like, I’m not sure how you did that. Like Did you take like, like at the top of the show? Did you do a questionnaire Did you did you like get a saliva sample? Did you stick a swab up his nose? I don’t know. But you figure it out the way that works for your stay and your comfort level how you assess the risk. I think, Hey, we are all feeling the skin hunger right now. Well, not me because I, I’m touched out, I’m around people all day long. But for those of you who are single, it is no wonder that we are missing that human connection, and even just the power of touch. So men or women, there is no shame in getting your physical needs met. But if you know that the tendency for you is to put more into it, and to think more about it than what it really means, you might need to add an extra level of protection for yourself emotionally because it’s clear if this person just matched with you on a dating app. And they were just like, bam, drinks, bonfire, sex, let’s get it on. I don’t know that that is suddenly going to blossom into a more meaningful relationship. So you have to know what you’re signing up for. Now, I’ll tell you a little story. This is kind of embarrassing. I have had one and only one, one nightstand in my life. And I it’s kind of one of those things where I thought, well, everyone’s done it, and everyone should do it. So I’ll just do it and get it over with. And I have to tell you, it was honestly the worst experience of my life, there was nothing sexy about it. I felt terrible when it was over. And he, he wanted to he was really a jerk. And then he wanted to walk me to my car, and I was like, Don’t walk me to my car, I’m fine. I’m a grown woman. And then he felt really bad for being a jerk. So then he just followed me to my car to make sure that I didn’t like I don’t know, get raped or something, because then he’d feel extra bad. And I have to admit, I don’t regret a lot of my experiences. I think every experience that you have, it teaches you something and adds up to something more. So I don’t regret that it happened. But I definitely learned that for me. One Night Stand life was not it. So you might already know that about yourself. But if you feel like you can separate the intimacy and the physical connection, and the sex from the emotional part of it, and you can do it safely. I am not one to judge.

 

Our second question for today came from my women’s group, the dating accelerator program, this person said I met a guy on hinge a few months ago, we’ve had to socially distance dates in person and everything seemed to be going great. We both got really busy at work. But he said if we want to if we want more, we have to see each other more and talk more. I agreed. But since then he’s been distant. I set a date with him for dinner. But when I called him to make a plan he didn’t answer. And he hasn’t called since Should I try again to make this happen? Or is it over. So a lot of times we operate out of a place of assumption. And I definitely think he was trying to send you a message here that he either was angry with something that happened or didn’t feel like he was getting his needs met. And so he he might have even been saying in that conversation, he had already made the decision to move on. If we want more, we’d have to see each other more and talk more. And the other part of that sentence in his mind was, and it doesn’t seem like you can do that. So Peace out, I’m gone. And then at that point, you’re agreeing, but you’re entering from a position of needing to make things up to him and cater to his needs. Right? So I’ll just first say it might already have been too late. But in most of these situations, we also if we don’t have clarity, we need to get clarity. So yes, you should try again. And for some people, like they’re too proud to actually just speak what they are feeling and what they want. And that’s how we end up in all of these ghosting, Limbo, half assed situations, none of that for you, you’re going to say, Listen, I feel like I’ve been really distracted. And I really want to give this a chance. I’d love to see you house this weekend. Just go directly for it. Put your heart out there, put what you want out there, you’re going to get one of two responses. It will either be Oh, I didn’t know that you were really into this? Yes, I’d love to see you. And then he his competence is renewed, and he wants to invest in it further or you get crickets. And what I need you to hear is that crickets are a response. So that’s why I say you might have already gotten the response. But we if you were operating out of a place with any ambiguity, ambiguity, we can’t necessarily judge that. So now you’re going to go right for it. You’re going to say exactly what he wants to hear. You’re going to be very clear about where you See things going in the future. And then you’re going to see what he has to say about it. And then you’re going to report back to me, and the dates and make show. That’s it for today’s episode. This one is 329 of dates and mates. Yeah, you’ve got to check out Taylor’s work and cosmos, she writes all of the hottest content about sex and love and dating@cosmopolitan.com. And this book is seriously, it raised my body temperature, about three or four degrees just from reading it. You can pre order Cosmos fantasy sex games, wherever you get your books, but I’ll put a special amazon link in the show notes. Disclaimer, if you order through this link, I do get a small percentage of the sale like a very, very small percentage of the sale, but I’m just trying to make it easy for you to get this book. So that’s the scoop for today’s episode. Hit me up on the socials at damona Hoffman. I’d love to know what you learned from today’s episode, or hear what your questions are for a future episode. We’ll be back again next week with more hot dates and mates content but in the meantime, make sure you watch the Drew Barrymore show I will be on this Wednesday, September 30. So check your local listings for when you can catch the show. Until next week. I wish you happy dating

 

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

 

Inside OkCupid & VILF

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Damona’s Algorithm Hacks!

Here are a few key tips on making the algorithm work for you from today’s episode of the Dates & Mates Podcast!

  1. Sign on regularly – daily if you can. If you have notifications turned off you will miss communications plus logging in less frequently tells the app you’re not that engaged and bumps you lower in the search when others are looking for someone like you. 
  2. Initiate messages and swipe liberally – if you don’t swipe or message anyone, the app can’t tell who you want to engage with and will keep matching you more broadly with people you might not actually connect with or find attractive. 
  3. Switch it up – making changes to your profile on regular intervals every month or so means you’re going to the top of the queue regularly 

CLICK HERE TO GET YOUR FREE ALGORITHM HACKS FROM DAMONA!

Date of the Union & The Entanglement

HOW TO DATE TODAY: ENTANGLEMENT NOW

This week we’re answering the question: Can you date today? Or can all we hope for is just a summer “entanglement?”

Damona gives a “Date of the Union Address” devoted to helping you understand the current dating and entanglement landscape plus get you up to speed on the top headlines that we missed during the Love Lessons special series.

First up, we do the dish with Damona’s co-host for the day, Steve Barnes:

DATING DISH (1:28)

Will and Jada and The Big “Entanglement”

We know you’ve heard about Will and Jada… plus August. But we still have questions: Was this “entanglement” staged? Do Will and Jada have an open relationship? Damona and Steve have some experience with Will and Jada that might change your mind of some of these questions…

via GIPHY

Royally Screwed

So Princess Beatrice’s wedding didn’t go as planned. Not only did COVID completely cut the guest list down to 100 and push it back… her dad’s entanglement in the Epstein case also cast a shadow on a day. Damona and Steve discuss.

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Once and For All: What makes a great relationship

Samantha Joel et al of Western University in London, Ontario have completed the most comprehensive and successful study to answer the question, “what makes a great relationship?” According to Joel, the partnership you build is more important than the partner you pick. Read CNN’s full article here!

via GIPHY

DATE OF THE UNION: THE STATE OF DATE TODAY (11:00)

We are joined by fan-favorite dating coach Francesca Hogi! You’ve heard her wonderful advice on the podcast before, but if you’re new here, Franny is a love and life coach for extraordinary people who happen to be single.

Fun Fact: She is the co-host of the podcast Romantical and the host of the podcast Dear Franny: Uncommon Conversations About Love.

She’s here to help Damona to this “Date of The Union Address” right!

We cover:

  • Were dating coaches wrong? Maybe this isn’t the best time to find love?
  • The New Courtship Timeline: dating is slower, but relationships are moving at lightning speed
  • Summer Time Love is Fake
  • The exact steps to take to find love right now
  • Why you should be on two dating platforms – and we tell you which ones those are
  • Why you should be stalking the people you’re interested in

Read Franny’s full list here!

TECHNICALLY DATING (29:40)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • Danette –Is 2 weeks to soon to start saying “I love you”? I’ve met someone who is working abroad and we have established quite a nice text relationship. He is head over heels for me and keeps telling me he loves me. We haven’t met yet. I have strong feelings for him but this is making me uncomfortable. How do I elegantly ask him to slow down.
  •  Mary – I wanted to know if in your segment on Dating While Social Distancing, do you have recommendations on physical intimacy? What if you find someone that you would like to start a committed physical relationship with? How do you navigate and set safety agreements?

What is Patreon?

Patreon is a platform that allows you to support creators like me to keep making helpful content that you want to hear and allow you to get amazing listener benefits by participating

Our page is Patreon.com/datesandmates

What will you get if you sign up?

There are three different tiers. One for our loyal listeners who want to connect with others and keep this show going strong for another 7 seasons.

Sign up at patreon.com/datesandmates for: 

  • an opportunity to work with Damona directly
  • to get quality advice that is tailored to your dating challenges
  • and to become part of a community that will help you find the healthiest, most loving relationships this year

 

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Unknown Speaker 0:00
It’s a tale as old as time. He’s handsome, debonair. She’s pretty and sweet. They lock eyes across the room.

Damona 0:10
Okay, hold on, honey, you need to get your facts straight. Finding love today is more like we supposed to get my swipe. I just want

Unknown Speaker 0:19
somebody to share my life. What

Unknown Speaker 0:20
does this text mean? Maybe he’s just not that into me or even I met him on the street. I know which hospital he worked at. I knew his name is I slid into his DMS

Damona 0:30
on Twitter. You can keep waiting for the fairy tale, or you can get on forward with the new rules of relationships. If you’ve read my advice in the LA Times, then you know, this ain’t your mama’s love advice. This is dates in mates with damona Hoffman,

Unknown Speaker 0:47
members of Congress,

Unknown Speaker 0:49
the President of the United States.

Damona 0:53
Thank you, Madam Speaker. Members of Congress, Madam Vice President lovers, This day marks eight years essentially two terms as you’re leading dating and relationship official. We kicked off the season strong with an interview and coaching demo with the real housewives garcelle Beauvais last week. It was beautiful. It was the very best American dating podcast episode about the best. And now it’s time to address your concerns in a date of the Union Address. All right, in all seriousness, we’re in a challenging time for dating and relationships and everyone needs love now more than ever. So today’s episode is devoted to helping you understand the current dating landscape and getting you up to speed on the top headlines that we missed during the love lessons special series. To do all of this. I have two exciting guests joining me today for updates on the date of the Union. Do you get it data you didn’t get it? Well, I have a fan favorite love coach joining me Francesca hoagie who will give us the exact steps that motivated singles need to take right now if they’re looking to find love. But first, we have the headlines. Of course we missed some huge headlines including will and jaida and the big entanglement and the royal wedding. No the other royal wedding, didn’t you here, plus the latest and most accurate study on what makes a great relationship. Then at the end of the show, Francesca and I will handle your questions including Is it true love or is it a catfish? And when is it safe to get physical with your quarantine crush? Joining me to tackle the headlines of the day is my dear friend Barnes. He’s an actor and producer plus. You may also know him from over 20 years of experience as a radio personality specifically as the host of Atlanta’s number one morning radio show. The morning acts for many years. Now, he’s the host of a hot new podcast called the Pop Culture Show. Along with cmts, Leslie Fram and Kobe Bryant from nycs 106. point seven. Please help me give big smooches to my co host for today, Barnes thank you

Unknown Speaker 3:19
very much good to see you. damona.

Damona 3:21
My friend, I was thinking about who can help me figure out what we missed in the time that we were doing our love lessons and who is always on top of the headlines. And of course, it’s you. Of course we do this every week already on the Pop Culture Show. So why not do it here on dates and mates?

Unknown Speaker 3:40
I’ve listened to your podcast for years you’ve been doing it for so long gratulations on all the success.

Damona 3:45
Thank you. And obviously you are a legend in radio and podcasting. So I’m just honored. You’re here to break down these headlines with us. Are you ready to dish with me Barnes

Unknown Speaker 3:56
I am always ready. Let’s do it.

Damona 4:00
stating dish. Bowsher and everyone in the internet has been talking about will and jayda. This all went down when we were doing our love lessons, but it’s just too important not to talk about, in case you haven’t heard and you’ve been living under a rock jayda had what she calls in entanglement with August alsina. And it turns out it happened during a break when she and we’ll were on a break. So she brought herself and will to the red table to talk this all through. Barnes. I got to know from you. I mean, you’ve been covering pop culture for a long time and there’s been a lot of rumors about willing Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 4:40
for a while. We talked about this in the pop culture show while you’re on vacation. And it what’s weird to me is if you follow all of the clues and all the bread crumbs that have been dropped, first of all on the red table show on Facebook, he called it I believe in a fair or a situation And she quickly corrected him and said entanglement and I think that’s key because August seen us song entanglement was already created made and on the platter ready to come out. It’s very suspicious to me I think something weird is going on with that whole thing even though they have a piece of it and this is just a big Hollywood play. I don’t know what’s happening but all the things said in the song are even Rick Ross is wrapped talking about Will Smith kind of under the lines. It’s strange. Just

Damona 5:32
looking at the read Table Talk episode. I just really felt that will was coming from a very honest place. I feel like the bond between them is so strong that, you know we like to banter about what’s going on. I feel like it is and they’ve been I mean, they’ve been together for what like two

Unknown Speaker 5:53
decades. Come on. You know Hollywood. Something is weird about this whole situation. That August is Seen a coming out with an entanglement song and the way she was so purpose driven in mentioning it during that whole thing with Will I agree with you will seem like he was coming from a very honest place. She, however, was the complete antithesis of that. I felt like she was very fake, and very contrived. And very, she was very flippant with him.

Damona 6:24
I’m just surprised that she was able to keep this a secret while doing red Table Talk for so long. But

Unknown Speaker 6:30
all that aside motion,

Damona 6:32
all promotion, let’s say you’re here, so Hollywood with the pop culture analysis. But let’s say for our listeners who are watching this thinking, Oh, that could be me. I just want to know what your thoughts are on the open relationship situation. Like let’s say it wasn’t even really against the rules of relation, the relationship and they are just in an open relationship. Do you think that we’re going to be seeing more more people coming out and saying The rules of your relationship do not apply to me.

Unknown Speaker 7:03
What legendary for years, they’ve had an open relationship and they’ve had multiple people in and out of it. That’s what people say. They came into our studios one time, she came in one time and was very like, she’s the princess snapping those fingers through the hallways like with her whole, you know, posse following her. And he’s the same way we interviewed Well, a long time ago, and he had like multiple people around him. They’re just very contrived. I feel like they’ve gone on a path to their stardom. And even this open relationship thing could just be something to get people talking. But the August I’ll who is August alsina. I mean, Where did he come from? See all of a sudden he’s being talked about.

Damona 7:44
So what is it? Clearly they understand it, they’re pulling all the strings and yes, we are just talking about it. And yes, we’re going to probably buy that.

Unknown Speaker 7:53
But that read the table. Once again, 15 million or something or more views

Damona 7:59
barn’s Let me tell you though. That show is so good. I mean, we could talk about that all day. But you mentioned that she came in like the princess. There was news about an actual princess that happened while we were in the love lesson sessions as well. Princess Beatrice finally got married on July 17.

Unknown Speaker 8:17
This is great

Damona 8:18
delicious snack, Edoardo mapelli mazzi. And she had to keep changing her plans like it seemed like everybody else was just conspiring against her wedding. You may remember back in the fall there when all the Epstein drama was happening. Prince Andrew just fully put his foot in his mouth and they were like, okay, can’t get married now because obviously people are going to be talking about that. And then COVID happens. And so you know, here all of her cousins get these lavish weddings and carriage processions and they’re like, we’re just going to do a tiny little family only thing and and keep it really small but I can’t believe that that Really what she wanted I think she kind of just got the short end of the stick

Unknown Speaker 9:04
well with Prince Andrew and everything going on with Jeffrey Epstein. That’s number one and they use COVID kind of as an excuse. I mean, the Queen didn’t even stay the whole time. The Queen was like, in and out out he but by the Epstein thing, there are still things coming out with that.

Damona 9:20
Oh, it’s so sketchy sketch and like for everyone listening I’m sure a lot of us had plans that got disrupted from COVID. And a lot of us had weddings or in I just heard from a client who was engaged who had to break off her engagement cuz her her her fiance is stuck in another country. It’s it’s been wild, but maybe like you said, Maybe this is a blessing in disguise for them. And then they can just focus on the relationship being about the two of them and not deal with all their drama. And look at this. This is the royal family. And they have all that same drama. Like don’t invite him to the wedding. Who knows wasn’t Sheila

Unknown Speaker 9:59
she was With an American for what, almost 10 years

Unknown Speaker 10:05
research now

Unknown Speaker 10:07
it’s the pop culture show up on Pop Culture Show, I’m just doing dates and maids.

Unknown Speaker 10:12
She was with this guy. Beatrice was with this American for, I want to say 10 years. And when they broke it off, whoever broke it off, he was engaged in a hot minute. So that’s very interesting. And American, I believe living in London, and they get broken up. However, they got broken up, and then all of a sudden, magically, he’s engaged

Damona 10:34
in it. You know, when it works, it works when it doesn’t work. It doesn’t work. But that reminds me of a new cnn study that was just published on what makes a successful relationship. And they looked at successful couples. Everyone’s always asking me like, what are the qualities that I need to present to be ready for a relationship or what should I be looking for? What are the red flags? Turns out Barnes it’s ain’t even about you. It’s more about the relationship. And it turns out that the satisfaction the relationship matters a lot more than the individual characteristics. So thinking of things like, like perceived partner commitment, like if you feel like your partner is committed to you, that’s, that can really indicate that you’re going to be in it for the long haul, or appreciation, of course, sexual satisfaction, perceived partner satisfaction, and conflict. I found this study fascinating Barnes and

Unknown Speaker 11:32
I know every, like every hot button. Well, I mean, isn’t that the bottom lines, but I do? Well, hitting the hot button. I guess that’s the key to a successful relationship right now is the third point. But beyond that, it’s Can you ever get it perfect? Because if you had those four things, or whatever that are this, you know, that are the base of a relationship, and three of them are working here. All right.

Damona 11:57
Yeah. Like everyone’s looking for the Holy Grail. I don’t know about I’ve been watching that show Indian matchmaking on Netflix. And you know, so they have the, well, we’re not gonna get into the controversy, but they look at the bio data, right of all the people that they’re matching. And they go so far as to send them to astrologers and to do face readings to try to get the compatibility, right. But really, it’s just about their, their commitment. When you look at it that way. It reminds me actually, you know, my husband, and I remember in the beginning, I was like, What do you like about me? And he was like, I like how you make me feel. And I was like, that’s a cop out. Give me some compliments. But now that I’m seeing this study, it makes a lot of sense that it was more about the relationship and how he felt in the relationship than necessarily that that I was doing anything special.

Unknown Speaker 12:52
Well, look at all the look at all the reality shows. I watch all of them all the dating shows, it’s weird. Nothing is good enough for Anybody,

Damona 13:00
well, you can’t reality TV, you can help who you love. But I’ll put up the the link to the study, of course in the show notes, dates and mates calm. But there were something some individual characteristics that could predict whether you will be satisfied in a relationship or not. These are really interesting barns, life satisfaction, negative effect, depression, attachment avoidance and attachment, anxiety. If you haven’t read the book attached, you can learn about your attachment style, but I was like, This is the key. We did all of these exercises in love languages to get clear on our partner but also to get really comfortable with ourselves. And that seems to be a big factor much more than looking for those qualities in your partner.

Unknown Speaker 13:50
Have you seen the show? I’m sorry, on Netflix.

Damona 13:52
Yeah, no, I heard it’s really funny.

Unknown Speaker 13:54
All about dating. They’re trying to will feroza an executive producer and they’re trying To be the almost Sex in the City, but kind of quirky of this age. I’ll be curious to see what you think about but they talk about these things.

Damona 14:08
I know like three years. I’ll have some on demand. Oh, I know. I have a lot to watch and very little time. I’m busy watching love love on the spectrum. That’s a good one. Barnes. Where’s that? I haven’t heard that. So Netflix, but it’s people who are on the autism spectrum looking

Unknown Speaker 14:23
Oh, I have not seen that. I did see that. I saw it but I didn’t see it. so

Damona 14:27
fabulous. cringe worthy at moments. But actually, you could. everyone listening could learn a lot about relationships by watching what these people go through, because they have to teach them just basic social skills and interaction like things that I assume for a lot of the people listening should just come naturally. But it’s reinforces what I say that dating is really a learned skill. And so sometimes we need to just break down all of the steps and make sure that you’re building the relationship in the right way from the beginning.

Unknown Speaker 15:00
Netflix is full of shows like that. I’ll give you two more for homework. Okay, on twisted relationships. One is called Dr. Foster. Okay, which is a UK show a must see on Netflix, I’m

Damona 15:10
sure they have a bad name, Beatrice,

Unknown Speaker 15:13
Beatrice, and then the other ones, another UK show called liar. And those are both about twisted relationships. But a lot of the things you talk about are exhibited in these people. And to your point, is it you the couple, or is it you the individual that’s making the relationship go sideways? If you focus on yourself and make yourself better, is that going to make collectively a better relationship? Now you’ve got to worry about the other side.

Damona 15:39
So much to do. You’re giving me homework barns. That’s

Unknown Speaker 15:43
what we do.

Damona 15:44
This is why I listened to the pop culture show, which all of you can hear at the pop culture show.com or wherever you get your podcast, because Barnes keeps us up to speed on what we need to know whether we’re talking dating and relationships or what’s happening on the hutzler or anything else? You’re my source Barnes and I appreciate you being here.

Unknown Speaker 16:05
We have to have you on our show soon. It’s Mondays at 10am we dropped a new episode.

Damona 16:08
I love it. I can’t wait to be on that show and I can’t wait to have you back to do the headlines with me again here on dates inmates. Thank you. That’s for dish. We’ll be back with updates and actionable advice in my date of the union address with Francesca hoagie. But first, I have to ask, can we be friends? Can we be friends with benefits? It’s not what you think. In case you haven’t heard already, I have a Patreon group for my true friends who want a little more support and love. If you’re looking for a community of daters and behind the scenes insights from me, then you are the perfect person to become one of my friends with benefits on Patreon. You can check it out@patreon.com slash dates and mates. And when you become a member of our community, you get a private Facebook group where you can chat with me and other listeners of the show. You’ll also get access to the behind the mic live stream talk back each week all about that week’s episode, plus secret behind the scenes content from over 300 episodes of dates and mates and 10% off of any of my online programs too. There’s even more, you can read all about it@patreon.com slash dates and dates, and you can join for just $5. And that will allow me to hopefully keep the show going for another eight more seasons as well. Okay, don’t go anywhere. The date of the union is coming right up.

Welcome back. I am here with one of the Dayton mates fan favorites dating coach Francesca hoagie. You’ve heard her wonderful advice and stories on this podcast before but if you’re new here frannie is a love and life coach for extraordinary people who happen To be single, fun fact she was also a contestant on two seasons of the CBS reality show survivor. Francesca is the co host of the podcast romantical and the host of the awesome podcast, dear frannie uncommon conversations about love. And she’s here to have some uncommon conversations with me and do this date of the Union address, right? So please give big smooches to my friend Francesca hoagie. Hey, hi. Thank you hear me, Danny, welcome back. Thank you. Thanks. I’ve been going down

Unknown Speaker 18:38
since the last time you’re on the show. You know, the world just it’s it’s, it’s changed like 20 times in the last six months. It’s pretty extraordinary.

Damona 18:49
That is exactly why I wanted to do this show because we talked about dating like, I’ll be honest, I started out super optimistic me two months ago. Yeah. And I was like, this is great, you guys. Yeah, sure. All my listeners

Unknown Speaker 19:00
are laughing or laughing right now we were all so excited. We’re like, this is actually gonna be the best thing ever everyone.

Damona 19:06
And I think there are positives to it. Like I was saying it slowing down the dating process, which was on hyperspeed and really needed something to recalibrate it. I wasn’t really counting on this, but here we are.

Unknown Speaker 19:21
Here we are. But yeah, yeah.

Damona 19:23
Now like we’re, what, five months into quarantine? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 19:27
10 years, one or the

Damona 19:29
other. It feels like 10 years. And I feel like from my clients and the listeners who’ve written into the show, I feel like the the tone has changed a little bit. And the fatigue is setting in and the frustration is coming up again. So what are you seeing in your practice?

Unknown Speaker 19:47
Yeah, I’m seeing the same thing. I was really really optimistic at the beginning of quarantine and I saw my clients I think, when it first when everything first started walking down there Really was this wave of people who were like, Okay, well, this is it is what it is, it’s not going to be for that long. So like, let’s just, you know, have some video dates and get to know people. And that was happening, like very much happening for my clients like pretty easily at the beginning and I was like, Oh my god, this is amazing. Everybody’s gonna meet their husband and quarantine are gonna be all these like, you know, Corona love stories. And there will be there will be but I’ve just seen it kind of like that initial wave just kind of crash a bit. And it seems like, like you said that fatigue is set in. Which by the way, I mean, even if it wasn’t a pandemic, like this is not, you know, summertime is not the best time to be looking for a serious relationship in general. Because people are always more distracted in the summer and just have, you know, shorter attention spans. And so I thought that kind of the fact that we are still all quarantining for the most part, hopefully would extend This kind of honeymoon period, but it’ll come back around because you know, fall was coming. cuffing season is coming.

Damona 21:06
cuffing season is right around the corner. I’m a big fan of the zoom dates, but I have always said, and for my patreon friends with benefits, there’s a there’s a special video I did that’s just on how to ace a video chat date, because it’s a separate process. And I think a lot of people were kind of slipping into just like, oh, you’re here, let me just click into, you know, the Bumble video or asked or meet me on zoom. And it was like you said it was not very mindful and very fatiguing. And we have to still have something to build up to we have. We’ve lost that anticipation, right? Because there used to be that I’m going to meet this person for the first time. What am I going to wear? How is my hair going to be done?

Unknown Speaker 21:51
Why are they did all that like yeah, excitement. Yeah, it’s so

Damona 21:54
intimate, bringing someone into your home like you’ve never met them and now they’re visiting But still, yeah, that’s a whole different level. It’s a whole different level. Totally. We even get there. You wrote this fantastic blog. You guys when I mean not gender, y’all, this blog is so, so on the money about all the things that you should be doing right now, if you’re looking for love. So she says she’s in a relationship now. But she says, I’m a love coach, if I was single, here’s how I would find love during COVID. So can we just run through it? I want people to check out this blog too. But I can let’s give some of the highlights. You in the blog, you differentiate between dating, traditional dating sites and dating apps. I’ve talked about this on the past in the past on the show, but for the noobs. Let’s get everybody up to speed on the difference between those two things.

Unknown Speaker 22:51
Yes, absolutely. And thank you for the kind words by the way, from the heart girl. So a traditional dating site, you know, Think the will the classic one match.com. Right like so you think of you go on a site, you can put in your search parameters, you run searches, the site suggests people to you, you can message anybody you want, whether they live, you know, down the street from you or across the world. So it’s really you have more controls over your kind of what you’re doing on the site, just because of the way that it’s set up. And also, the profiles on a traditional dating site are they’re just more detailed. So, you know, if you’re looking at a dating app, you might have 400 500 characters say everything you need to say about yourself, which is not a lot of not a lot of room, you know, basically like two tweets. So the subtle lot of room but if you go on to a traditional site, then you can say as much as you want. I mean, you don’t want to say too much, right? You don’t want to bore people with your life story, but you know you you have more of a chance to express yourself a little bit more Your personality, who you’re looking for the kind of relationship you want to have. And you know, all apps have a free version, most of them also have a paid version where you can, you know, upgrade to get some extra bells and whistles. But for the most part, the app experience is a free one. And the traditional sites also usually have a free version, but you do want to pay because the paid versions are where you can really get the full benefit of a traditional site. So the cost, the just the functionality, you know, like I said, on a traditional site, you can sort of run searches and be a little bit more targeted about who you’re looking at. Whereas on a dating app, the algorithm is just basically showing you everyone in your area, who generally is the gender and age that you’re looking for. I mean, you can kind of pay to get a little bit more specific on certain apps, but you’re definitely casting a wider net on apps.

Damona 24:55
Yes, that’s so true. And you also talk about the algorithm and Yes, thank you. I say this to my clients to like, you can be on Coffee Meets Bagel, which is a great app, y’all. But you get one match a day there. And there’s not really much I can do in the algorithm for you. But on like an OkCupid, or a match, I have different ways that I can search I can do I have different ways that I can signal to the app, what you’re looking for. Yes, right. Yeah. So do you feel like it’s a it’s a either or situation or you feel like everybody should be on both a traditional and an app? And is there a max number of apps that you’ve seen people be able to juggle?

Unknown Speaker 25:40
Yeah. So I think ideally, you’d be on to, okay. And I when I say ideally, I mean, this is this is current, okay, so this is August 2020, you know, COVID-19 times, three months ago, four months ago, five months ago, I wasn’t recommending that, that people be on both our traditional site and an app. The reason And I’m doing that now is because because on a traditional site, the bar to entry is a little bit higher, you know, you’ve got to pay, you’ve got to put more work into your profile. My suspicion is that this is the time that you want to, you want to go there, that’s where you want to be like, if you’re looking for something serious, that’s where you want to be. If you’re willing to put in the time and the effort to really get to know someone without the instant gratification of like getting to hang out with them. I think that you are more likely to find more people who are willing to invest that same amount of time on a traditional site, which is why I’m recommending that right now. Particularly for the person who has been on a dating app and you’re feeling really like frustrated, burnt out, you know, you feel like you’re out of matches, like you’ve seen everybody you know, in your city or town, then that’s a good opportunity. Also, I spoken to people who are now because of everything that’s going on and maybe their jobs situation, they’re more geographically flexible, because they’re like, well, I live live in New York, but I, my job now is going to be I can work wherever. So maybe I live somewhere where I can have a better quality of life. So they’re even more open to moving. And if you’re more open to moving, you can go on and OkCupid or match. And you can say, all right, these are the five cities I’m interested in, and you can start running searches for people in those cities, and start connecting with them. So yeah,

Damona 27:22
that I have to admit I’m, I’m definitely adapting my traditional strategy a little bit. And, and it’s also specific to each client. Like I have a client who’s looking for something very specific. And she’s kind of gotten to the end of the Bumble role. And yeah, so I was like, normally, I would not say you need to be on four apps at a time. But if you’re looking for something really specific and you’re eager to get things rolling, like if you don’t have time to play the long game for whatever reason, you know, you’re goals or biological clock or whatever, then maybe this is a good time because you’re working from home and you have more free time. Maybe this is a good time to juggle more apps, as long as you can be active on it. Right? Like, you don’t want to be missing messages and, and being flaky.

Unknown Speaker 28:17
Yeah, exactly. And it basically comes down to Yeah, what is your bandwidth? You know, I mean, I have some clients for, you know, to be on one platform is enough, like, that takes enough of their time, their energy they get, they get enough matches, you know, so they have plenty, they already like, you know, I have plenty of people to, to communicate with who they feel are more or less fitting their criteria. So if you’re in that position, then great, like, do what you’re doing. But if you’re not in that position, and you do have the bandwidth to expand and, and again, I was writing this blog post from my perspective, like this is literally me Francesca hoagie. If my boyfriend and I broke up tomorrow. What would I Well, if we broke up tomorrow, I wouldn’t actually go right now I have to rethink my whole life. But

Damona 29:08
we’re talking how you and your boyfriend, Matt, because you also talk about this. Yeah. And the blog and I think this is really important for a lot of folks listening but especially women, women, folks, yes. Yes, you met IRL. But then you hadn’t you hunted him down girl. I did I do that and YG.

Unknown Speaker 29:32
I met him very briefly on the street on the corner of sunset and tahini and Beverly Hills. And

Damona 29:41
that’s a good corner. It was by the way, it was.

Unknown Speaker 29:45
It was like a brief exchange. He was with his brother and we had all just been at the screening and his brother recognized me. So his brother like was like, Oh, hey, how’d you like the movie? So I started talking to them briefly. And I just thought he was really interesting. I just thought he was like, I know that. We’re just Something about him and our brief interaction. And we had this moment where we kind of made eye contact and like, there was just kind of like, oh, there’s just something there, you know. And I just really listened to my intuition. And my intuition just was really like screaming. You’re like, you’re supposed to keep talking to him. And I didn’t know why. But then we went our separate ways, because he was getting in an Uber to go home

Damona 30:24
and be weird to chase the nuber. Right? Yeah. But we have social media,

Unknown Speaker 30:34
social media, and I knew it too. I was like, I have enough information about him to find him because I knew that he was a scientist. I knew that he worked. I knew which hospital he worked at in LA. I knew he was Australian. I knew his name. So I was like, this is this. I can do that. I got this.

Damona 30:53
And then dm him.

Unknown Speaker 30:55
Yeah. So I slid into his DMS on Twitter and I just said they were was really nice meeting you. And that was my like, that was like my digital link. You know, it was like if he’s interested, because I didn’t know if he could have been married, he could have been, you know, from what I could see from his Twitter. I couldn’t tell, but it was all science. So I was like, there’s nothing personal there. And so, you know, he could have been gay, like, a million things. So I had no idea but I was like, if he’s available and interested, this is enough for him to like latch on to. And it was. So that’s how we met.

Damona 31:29
Oh, my gosh, I am so impressed with because I think a lot of women would, I’m always saying on the show, to take initiative and just just open the door. It’s not changing the rules of chivalry, just to be to show that you’re open, right. But I think a lot of people are afraid that if they start the relationship off that way, that then the whole gender dynamics of the relationship. We’ll be off forever. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 32:02
yeah. Well, part of it is like there’s, there’s this definitely takes a little finesse like this is dating. I love dating. And I think that dating is so important because you learn so much you learn so much about yourself. You learn so much about other people you learn so much like, just about what’s really important in connection if you if you do it the right way, if you do it intentionally and you actually pay attention to what you’re doing. And there’s a difference between being proactive and doing something like I did, which was like, number one cyber stalking him. And number two sliding into his DMS right like me doing that. Some people be like, Oh my god, I don’t want to chase the guy. I don’t want to chase the guy either. And I didn’t chase him. I did take a very proactive, bold step and I call this like one bold step. You can take one bold step and see if the guy is like, oh, wow, I didn’t even know this was an option for me. So I’m gonna pick up the ball and run with it because What happened? Like, I sent him that message I said it was, you know, it was really nice meeting you and he like responded right away, he commented on something that I said in my bio, he like asked me out to dinner like, you know, it wasn’t like, I didn’t have to pull teeth to get that. keep that going. I was just like, pushing it into motion, because there are guys who are good guys who, like they need a little bit of encouragement. Like he, there was no way that he thought in the three minutes that we interacted, that he’d be like, Oh, let me ask her out. Like, he’s just not that kind of guy. Like, he doesn’t have that kind of game, you know? So, and I could tell that he wasn’t that kind of guy. It wasn’t that he wasn’t confident. I could just tell like, if I’m interested in him, I just need to make sure it’s clear and then see what he does. Now if you meet a guy and the guy is super, like suave, Mr. Cool player type that guy, you don’t need to make a bold move with that guy. Right? Right. And you guy will you be chasing?

Damona 33:57
Yeah, right. And you also have to listen to what’s happening, like so many times I hear from people that like, Oh, I wrote him, but then he didn’t write me back. And I don’t know if I should send another message. And I’m like, why are they responded to?

Unknown Speaker 34:12
He responded with his his silence was a response. It was a response. It was a communication, just looking for.

Damona 34:19
Yeah, well, that’s the problem, right? We have expectations. And then when our expectations aren’t met, then sometimes we try to change the narrative or the information that reinterpret the information that we’re getting. But absolutely, I want to keep this going on a positive note, because I am still optimistic. I am still optimistic about finding love in a pandemic.

Unknown Speaker 34:40
Yeah, and

Damona 34:41
I’ll let everyone check out the blog for the rest of the tips because there’s

Unknown Speaker 34:46
10 of them. They all bear 10 different things as fire right now.

Damona 34:50
This is like all the stuff that I would tell you as well. Like, she literally just gives you the roadmap right there. So we’ll put the link in the show notes. But before we do that, I also want Want to talk about social distance dates? Now I’m seeing a lot of people are like, Okay, what is the timeline here? Now that we’ve we’ve connected? Maybe we’ve done a virtual date or two or phone call and a verge zoomed? I don’t know, connected. But where do we go from here? Mm hmm. Are you finding that people are starting to feel comfortable with moving offline into social distance dates? Yes,

Unknown Speaker 35:26
definitely. Definitely. Yes. At first, it was all virtual. Nobody wanted to go anywhere. People weren’t even discussing it. Really. The possibility of meeting in person. But now Yeah, people are definitely doing socially distance dates and there are ways to do it that are safe. I mean, Okay,

Damona 35:43
tell us about that. Like, what’s the etiquette?

Unknown Speaker 35:46
So like, if I were dating right now, like something that I would do is I would say like, okay, we can meet here and, you know, get a cup of coffee, get an ice cream, get a juice and like, take a walk together, you know, and six feet apart. And yeah, as long as you’re like you’re outside, you know, so there’s airflow. That’s really important. You have a mask on. Right? So that’s also really important.

Damona 36:09
A cute mask. Okay? Don’t just get, you know, the surgical blue and white situation. Yes. Why do you stop a cute mask?

Unknown Speaker 36:18
Yeah, we’re gonna be wearing masks for a long time people. So invest in a couple of masks that really capture your style, your personality, like don’t just do the straight, you know, surgical mask.

Unknown Speaker 36:31
Day. Yeah, that’s a missed opportunity. That’s a missed opportunity.

Damona 36:34
Yes, I love how you said that. Exactly.

Unknown Speaker 36:38
So that you know, so you could do that with lots of different things. So basically, if you’re outside and you could do something like you know mini golf, you don’t have to be you know, you have some space together. Have some space apart. We went to a drive in movie last week. I know you did too. You guys also want to drive in movie,

Damona 36:56
you know, I went to see RuPaul drive and drag Coming to a city near you, everybody. It was okay. But it was nice to be outside. It was a

Unknown Speaker 37:07
movie and it was nice. It was fun.

Damona 37:09
But then you have to be in a car with the person so like we had a whole thing

Unknown Speaker 37:14
you don’t have to be in the car with the person because you guys can park next to each other.

Damona 37:19
Okay, okay I’m with you. I’m with you. Yeah I like I tell I had I went with a friend so I tested before I went and she had like a fairly recent test I was like I can accept this

Unknown Speaker 37:32
but we’re getting a car right now like that’s just don’t just don’t do that aren’t

Damona 37:37
next to each other yet.

Unknown Speaker 37:39
Other timing, you could you could go on a picnic, you could go to you know, you can have a picnic on the beach or in the park. You could go for a hike, like anything that you’re outside. You know if you guys if you happen to like I don’t know like playing tennis and you know, you want to play tennis together. Like there are ways to do it and still be and still be safe now. Does it require a little bit more creativity? Yes. Does it require a little bit more effort? Yes, but it’s worth doing. And, you know, that’s, I mean, listen, love is, and this is my point of the blog too, because I’m not expecting other people to look at this blog and be like, Oh, I’m gonna do all these 10 things if this crazy person would do, but I would do all those 10 things if I was really motivated to be in a relationship, because it’s that important to me, you know. And so if it’s important to you, this pandemic is not going to be over anytime soon. And I wouldn’t be willing to put my dating life My hopes were finding a relationship on hold indefinitely. It’s life is just too short for that. So does it take a little bit more effort? Does it take a little bit more determination? That’s, that’s okay. That’s good. And I mean, I think Dimona, like, wouldn’t you agree that the fact that one of the reasons that modern dating has gotten so challenging Pre pandemic is because there were so many people who weren’t put willing to put in effort. And they weren’t actually determined to meet someone like they wanted to meet someone. But if they got frustrated after a few days, like they were out of there, you know, it’s just there was

Damona 39:15
too much happening where nobody could focus on what was in front of them, I think, yeah, we just we had too many options. And now, I think what I’m seeing is that people are also realizing as we’ve been separated for so long the value of having someone that you can trust to go through this experience with and so now I’m actually seeing a lot of relationships that have been on hyperspeed and people that I mean, we did an episode on this a few months ago of people that really bonded, met right before the pandemic and bonded very quickly, like practically moved in together. And so I think there’s going to be a little bit of recalibration on that front, but the timeline once you connect with people I think is actually going to be faster than it had been. I think we had it backwards before. It was like fast, fast, fast, get to the date like sword, sword, sword, sword sword. But then it was a long time to get to commitment and figuring out what was what for a lot of my clients and really, you know, getting to DTR and figure out if this person was real or not. I think now, we’re we’re flip flopping that so we’re, we’re moving into it a lot more slowly. But then once you are like, Okay, this is my person. Now we have to test we have to bubble together and now now we’re bonded very fast.

Unknown Speaker 40:41
Yeah. And I think that makes sense. And that and that’s why we have been so optimistic, you know, starting starting from the start of this that we’re like, oh my god, this is amazing. This is going to slow everything down and give people an opportunity like force people to actually get to know each other communicate what they’re looking for. See if they have to Shared values, see, and if all of those things are connecting, then it’s like, Alright, well, let’s just do this. Like, we just now we just need to see if we actually, like get along and have chemistry and like being together, and that is something that you can determine rather quickly. It’s those other bigger questions that really take time. So I think that, you know, I think that the relationships, I think that a lot of the relationships that are going to come out of this time are going to really illustrate the power of doing just that. They’re going to be a lot of really great relationships that last with people who they may just have that clarity of knowing, like, yeah, we want the same things in life. Like we have the same level of commitment. And we know how to support each other through challenging times because we were there for each other. Like, this person has a reason that I’m still standing after, you know, however long of this pandemic, so

Damona 41:55
yes, it’s definitely changing things. I just made me think I have to shout out one of My former clients who she actually had a destination wedding plan, and I kid you not Franny a year, a little over a year ago, year and a half ago, she came to me and she was like, I don’t know how I’m going to find love again. I’ve been divorced X number of years. And she found somebody, they were going to have a, a wedding abroad, and COVID happened. So now they’re just like, fine. Let’s just do let’s just do a little ceremony, just with family, tie the knot and get it done. So she’s actually getting married this week. Her name is denat. So I’ll be sharing her story on the blog and I’m sure on the show again, but yeah, you know, that will give everyone some hope that even though Yes, COVID is changing our plans. In some ways. It’s changing for the better now she’s going to be married even sooner than she thought she would be.

Unknown Speaker 42:51
That is fantastic. And I also have a client who got married last week. And yeah, and I’m so glad that they did it because first they were going to Wait. And because they were originally supposed to get married this summer, and then they were going to push it, but they just changed it. Like they just did like a very small ceremony on a Wednesday afternoon, like, with just their immediate family in their front yard like but it was, but it was awesome. And she was someone who had never been in a relationship before we started working together and now she’s married to a wonderful man.

Damona 43:24
I love that. Okay, hopefully that is inspiring for all the people listening. They’re like, I gotta do 10 things.

Unknown Speaker 43:32
Just do things you have to be open, you know, and it’s a mindset because it’s like, it’s not like it’s it’s home. It’s not homework. It’s just like, all right, love this. This is the mind strategy. We would encourage anyone who’s looking for love to just embrace and this is the mindset that I truly did very intentionally and consciously embrace for myself, which is I know that love is 100% possible for me. So my only job is to open my myself up to receive it however it shows up. I know he’s out there. I don’t know where he is. He could be around the corner. It could be I don’t know where he is. So why would I shut down any Avenue a potentially a spining each other?

Damona 44:15
You you are a woman after my own heart.

Unknown Speaker 44:19
Like, why would you do that? Like what? Like why would you just like Intel or willfully just decide like, No, I’m not going to do these and you know a lot of people they consider themselves like, I’m out there I’m trying and then like, Okay, what are you doing? And like they maybe they’re on an app that they swipe a few times a week, and then they get frustrated? And then they made it they deleted it. And then they download it A month later and they

Damona 44:41
complain to their girlfriends about being single.

Unknown Speaker 44:43
Yeah. And I’m like, Well, what else? Like that’s not that’s not being out there? like no, that’s not a job to pay your bills. Is that how you would look for a job? Like no like if you want to if you’re determined like you’re put in the effort.

Damona 44:57
All right, everyone, you heard it here. If you want,

Unknown Speaker 45:01
yep, if you want to find love, you got a date like it’s your job, granny. It’s really it’s your hobby. It’s your passion. It’s exciting. It can be fun. It should be fun, make it fun. Maybe that’s my job. You know? It’s like Yeah, well make it make it a job that you love. How can you make it exciting? How can you be more confident? How can you be more yourself so you take away all of that anxiety of like trying to be something that you think someone else wants? Like, you know, there’s just so many ways to make dating such a more joyful experience. Completely

Damona 45:34
frannie This is too good. Your advice is too good. I need you to stick around for the next segment. Because we have questions from our audience and I need you to help me answer them. Okay. Hello, friend. Welcome back. You have questions. We have answers and this is dear Dimona,

Unknown Speaker 45:58
damona help me

Damona 46:00
This one comes to us in an email from D we’ll call her D. She says is two weeks too soon to start saying I love you. I met someone who is working abroad and we have established quite a nice text relationship. He is head over heels for me and keeps telling me he loves me. We haven’t met yet. I have strong feelings for him, but this is making me uncomfortable. How do I elegantly ask him to slow down?

Unknown Speaker 46:27
This is a tough one. And it’s tough because All right, I’m just gonna be unfiltered here. Okay, is that okay? All we do

Damona 46:36
on this show that

Unknown Speaker 46:38
so it is not a good sign that there’s somebody that you’ve met online, who lives abroad who after two weeks is telling you that he loves you. There are scammers out there who actually you know, prey on people and this is what they do. They do this love bombing thing and they just, they just tell you the greatest thing since sliced bread They know what they’re doing. They know exactly what to say. I’ll just put it this way. If he, he starts saying anything about any kind of financial transaction. Just know that this is not a real person. I mean is a human but not this person is not who you think they are. Did she say that she’s only spoken to him on the phone? text, text? Text chip? Oh, yeah. I mean, at the very least, please insist that you do a video call and see who this person is. Mm hmm. And if this person is actually who they say they are, I would be very surprised, wouldn’t you Dimona?

Damona 47:37
Yeah, and I think there are also some red flags around the if you ask them for a video call. And they only want to do it at weird hours or like, they give all these excuses for why they can’t have their camera on or like anything that makes you feel like this isn’t transparant also sometimes, like an accent that you don’t expect, I’ve heard that happen before. Yeah, I’ve heard

Unknown Speaker 48:07
that happen a lot, right? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 48:08
you’re like,

Unknown Speaker 48:11
you know, Max, but the accent is clearly not. Yes,

Damona 48:16
yeah, there are a lot of signs here that this could be a catfish. I like to keep it optimistic too. So let’s just say in, in some universe that maybe this person actually is is legit. And like, I find that also in quarantine. People are kind of moving a little bit more quickly when they like I was saying in the first segment in the earlier segment, when you’re, when once you’ve connected with someone, they’re moving things forward too quickly. So if that happens to be the case for D, I would say just be really blunt about how you’re feeling like this is moving way too fast. I need to get to know you better. You don’t have to be elegant about it. You can you can be direct. Anyways, we have another question and we’re running out of time. Franny. She said do you have recommend on physical intimacy, what if you find someone that you would like to start a committed physical relationship with? How do you navigate and set safety agreements? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 49:12
yeah. Well, I think the question should you have the answer in the in the question, right? Like, it is something to navigate, you do need to have agreements. So you need to talk about it. What’s your comfort level? What are the parameters? You know, when are you guys getting tested with some regularity? How often are you coming into contact with people who aren’t that you know, each other? I those are just all conversations that you have to have. And I would be really clear about it. I wouldn’t, you know, I wouldn’t tiptoe around it. I’d be like, you know, really honest, like, I really want to, you know, I really want to go there. I’ll be like, I’m ready. I think you’re amazing, but how can we do this and really be safe and make sure that we’re taking every precaution to protect each other and, you know, other people think?

Damona 49:59
I think it’s ongoing conversation to like totally. I’ve been hearing from people in relationships that are like, my, my spouse is ready to like move out into the world and I’m still cocooning and nervous. Yeah. And they have different tolerance, risk tolerance. So I think this is a conversation obviously if you can get tested or self quarantine before you actually take the masks off and become intimate with someone and like really think this through what it because once it only takes one it’s kind of like the STI conversation right? It only takes one right One false move exactly one

Unknown Speaker 50:45
time ever and everything is fine. Right? Yeah.

Damona 50:50
Right. So I mean, we live in Los Angeles where we’re testing is free and available. I haven’t even say I tested you know, before I did the ripples drag race I got to same day test producer Leo will attest to this. I got to same day test. I got the next the results by the next morning. It was unbelievable. I know not everybody is in that situation. Yeah. So yeah, it was amazing. You guys. I’m like, I’m like a testing junkie now. I just want to know, I want to know, am I okay? Am I okay? Do it, do it. It’s so great. I mean, if you if you feel like i, this is I do at any time my situation changes, like, if we go out of town, or if like when our babysitter came back, like if your situation changes, it’s a good idea to test if you can get one but if you’re dating someone, and maybe you’re in a state where that’s not available, you have to kind of think ahead of how are you going to prepare right to get to that point. And then you also have to talk about what are they doing after that? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I tested and I’m fine. And now I’m gonna go to like Abba zoo. And, you know, go chill on a boat with opa.

Unknown Speaker 51:59
While my closest friends

Damona 52:04
I wouldn’t be having that. I’m not gonna judge your life. If that’s how you want you and your boo want to do it, that’s fine. But make sure that you’re on the same page and that you understand their risk tolerance in comparison to yours. Right? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 52:16
absolutely. Yeah. And that’s another and it’s also it’s it can it has for some people, like you said, become a bone of contention. You know, if you can’t agree on the rules, if they’re, I mean, I had a client who was dating somebody who he was, you know, she has she’s immunocompromised. She was just concerned about her own health, for obvious reasons. Yeah. And they had, they were, they were seeing each other and they physically were seeing each other. They were seeing each other like a couple of nights a week. But then she found out that he was like, having friends over to his apartment and all these things and she’s like, that’s not what we agreed to, you know, and it and it became like, they actually like stop seeing each other.

Unknown Speaker 52:57
I call this COVID cheating, like infidelity right there is total

Unknown Speaker 53:01
code infidelity. And she was like, I’m not taking like, you know, she felt very disrespected. And yeah, they weren’t able to reconcile it. So that is a real possibility. But I think that you know, just talking about it, just being really honest with each other is the way to go.

Damona 53:17
That is the way to go for most relationship challenges I really

Unknown Speaker 53:21
can’t always answer

Damona 53:25
all of your answers. I love your uncommon conversations about love on dear frannie and

Unknown Speaker 53:30
I love it when you join us here on dates and mate. So I hope you will come back again soon. Anytime. I love being here. Thank you for having me. demona

Damona 53:38
I hope you like the new intro for deer demona the beautiful soulful voice you heard was my dear friend Jenny Wren, and also thank you Alexander, for your wonderful question. Dear Dimona cries. We heard you we’ve listened and also shout out to our composers James Morris for the brand new dates and mates intro and for the deer demona Intro This is Episode 322 of dates and mates. My guest co host today both have fabulous podcasts that you just have to hear. You can find frannie on deer frannie uncommon conversations about love and barns and his crew are the Pop Culture Show. Look for the links in the show notes and find it wherever you are listening to this podcast right now. As always, we’ll give you a shortcut to today’s headline articles, and the best gifts that are fit to print on the show recap at dates and mates calm. And don’t forget to check out that Patreon group and support the show for just $5 at patreon.com slash dates and mates. You don’t want to miss that new behind the mic series and meet other folks in the Friends with Benefits community. So come on aboard@patreon.com slash dates and mates. I’m at damona Hoffman on all the socials. We are banking all these questions you have for future episodes. So don’t be shy DM me and let me know what’s on your mind and how you felt about today’s episode. I’ll see you next week with more modern love advice. Until then, I wish you happy dating

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Real Housewives & Date Coaching Demo

FIND LOVE AT ANY AGE

Hello Lovers!

Welcome to Season 8 of the Dates & Mates podcast!

via GIPHY

Modern Love has changed dramatically since the start of the show — actually, since the start of this season.

When this show first launched, the founder of Bumble was still working at Tinder, Love Island was still lost at sea, and Brad & Angelina hadn’t even gotten married yet – let alone divorced.

Times have changed but we’ve been here with you through all of it keeping up to date on the latest news, trends, apps, cultural shifts, and advice on love in the modern world.

This season will feature the top voices on dating and relationships plus even more celebrity guests sharing their own personal love stories.

Speaking of which, today we’re giving you an exclusive peak inside Damona’s coaching program and one of her celebrity clients has agreed to show you what the start of her coaching journey looks like.

She’s a cast member of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, she’s an actress, reality star, and fashion model. She’s the one and only Garcelle Beauvais.

via GIPHY

But before we get all up in Garcelle’s business, we have to talk about this week’s headlines: 

DATING DISH (1:28)

Get your dating app messages poppin’

Are you having trouble getting good banter on dating apps? Bustle has given us a bunch of fun suggestions for your next dating app convo. Damona tells you what’s hot and what’s not.

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The new rules of LDR

According to the latest advice in Cosmopolitan on long distance relationships, you shouldn’t knock it until you try it. In fact, there are lots of people in accidental, COVID-induced long distance relationships. Here’s how to keep the romance alive.

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In Sickness and In Health

Whatever your opinion on Kanye’s politics, we can all agree that Kanye is going through it right now. Kim has asked that we all respect their privacy and be understanding of mental health struggles right now – not just for Kanye but for all people. This is actually really relevant to you and Damona explains why.

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GARCELLE GETS BACK OUT THERE (11:00)

We are back by popular demand with the very first interview segment of the season! To kick off this season, Damona gives you a very special peak into my coaching program with a very special celebrity client.

You know Garcelle from Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. She also just launched a podcast called Going to Bed with Garcelle.

If you haven’t seen the show, let’s get you up to speed: Garcelle is ready to get back out there after healing from divorce. She is a talented, high powered career gal with a lovely family. So we’re going to help her set the tone for her new dating journey.

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Things get personal:

  • Dating takes bravery
  • Give yourself some credit: just because marriages don’t always last, it doesn’t mean you haven’t had successful relationships.
  • Five steps to fixing your love life: mindset, sourcing, screening, presentation and flirting
  • Finding the common denominator in your past relationships
  • Moving past infidelity
  • What you want in a guy
  • Old Fashioned guys versus Chivalrous guys
  • Celebrity dating is… a little different
  • What to do when you’re don’t want to use dating apps

Make sure to check Damona out on Going to Bed with Garcelle later this season!

TECHNICALLY DATING (29:40)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • From Lauren IG – I had a convo with a guy and it turns out he hates to go out and spend money. He came from a poor household and I have had no issue with funds. How can I suggest he be okay to go out without him feeling he needs the finances to do so?
  • IG: I’m about to be 50, what dating advice to you have for the older crew.

 

 

Best of all, it’s super affordable – Dates & Mates listeners like you get 10% off your first month with discount code DATESANDMATES 

 

So why not get started today? We all need someone to talk to right now. Go to BetterHelp.com/datesandmates so you can fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with a counselor you’ll love.

 

 

 

What is Patreon?

Patreon is a platform that allows you to support creators like me to keep making helpful content that you want to hear and allow you to get amazing listener benefits by participating

Our page is Patreon.com/datesandmates

What will you get if you sign up?

There are three different tiers. One for our loyal listeners who want to connect with others and keep this show going strong for another 7 seasons.

Sign up at patreon.com/datesandmates for: 

  • an opportunity to work with Damona directly
  • to get quality advice that is tailored to your dating challenges
  • and to become part of a community that will help you find the healthiest, most loving relationships this year

 

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Unknown Speaker  0:00  

It’s a tale as old as time. He’s handsome, debonair. She’s pretty and sweet. They lock eyes across the room.

 

Damona  0:10  

Okay, hold on, honey, you need to get your facts straight. Finding love today is more like,

 

Unknown Speaker  0:17  

we supposed to get my swipe. I just want somebody to share my life. What does this text mean? Maybe he’s just not that into me or even because I don’t like to date I pick one and I make a mind kind of like caveman, I hit him over the head and I drag him home. You can keep waiting for the fairy tale, or

 

Damona  0:33  

you can get on forward with the new rules of relationships. If you’ve read my advice in the LA Times, then you know, this ain’t your mama’s love advice. This is dates in mates with damona Hoffman. Hello, lovers, it’s your certified Dating Coach damona Hoffman and I am welcoming you to season eight of the dates and mates podcast. Whoo. Wow. Modern love has has changed quite a bit since the start of this podcast actually, since the start of this year. But when this podcast first launched, let’s see the founder of Bumble was still working at Tinder, love island was still lost at sea. And Brad and Angelina hadn’t even gotten married yet, let alone divorced. So, times have changed.

 

But I have been here with you throughout all of it and keeping you up to date on the latest news, trends, apps, cultural shifts, and advice on love in the modern world. This season will feature top voices on dating and relationships as always, but we will also have even more celebrity guests sharing their own personal love stories. Speaking of which, today I’m giving you an exclusive peek inside my coaching program. And one of my celebrity clients has agreed to show you what the start of her coaching journey looks like. She’s a cast member of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. She’s an actress, reality star and fashion model. She’s the one and only garcelle Beauvais. But before we get all up in our sales business, we have to talk about this week’s headlines, we’ll discuss the best opening lines to get your dating app messages poppin. And how Kim loves Kanye, in sickness and in health, plus the new rules of long distance relationships. Then, as always, at the end of the show, I will answer your questions including Can you date a cheapskate? And how can you find love when you’re 50 and fabulous? back by popular demand, it’s time to dish these dating dish. Our friends at bustle hooked you up with some opening line suggestions. So many times people write to me and say I don’t know what to say on these apps. How do I message in a flirtatious way? How can I get him interested? We swiped right we matched and then Things just died out. Well, my friends, bustle is telling you all the best lines to get your banter going. There were some that I loved and some that I thought maybe you should think twice about using my favorite ones were what’s your theme song? Hmm, that’s a that’s a that’s a thinker right? But it tells you a lot about the person. There’s another one I like always food you can’t go wrong and food. We’ve covered that before on the show and how many people actually mentioned food and their dating profiles. So if you say something like cheese pepperoni or Hawaiian, you will definitely get a reaction. I mean, I think there’s a definitive line in the sand between Hawaiian and no Hawaiian people. Right? And what are you binge watching right now this is a great one for generating conversation and especially in the situation many of us are in in the pandemic, we are on lockdown, and we are binge watching quite a lot of things. Now there are a couple of them that I thought might be a little bit much for an opening. line like, What’s your idea of a perfect first date? I think this is a great, great conversation piece for further along in the conversation but not right up front as an opening line. So be careful with that one. And the angel, why do you swipe right? How many of you have gotten this line? And you thought, Well, I don’t know. I had a couple glasses of wine and you look cute. So why’d you swipe right? It doesn’t give you a lot of information necessarily other than like, they’re already attracted to you. We know that they might not know why they swiped right, don’t put them on the spot. There was one that I wanted to share with you that I gave to a client this week, who she says is working like gangbusters. It was mint chip or rocky road, like I said cannot go wrong with the food references. So give it a try. Let me know how some of those lines work. We’ll put the link to the bustle article in the show notes. Now while we’re talking about making connections, long distance, I gotta hook you up with this new car. Mo article seven things you need to know about a long distance relationship because we’re finding a lot of us are in long distance relationship, you could be in a long distance relationship with someone who lives in your own city. A couple of these tips, one of them is mine. I’ll let you guess which one and then you can head over to the article and check it out. First one, don’t knock it until you try it. If you’ve heard me say on the show before, it’s really tricky. Don’t Don’t think that I am saying don’t do it. I’m just saying go in eyes wide open. think through what it will mean to live together again or one day. So a lot of times we don’t play it forward. And I’m always cautioning you don’t get too far ahead. But if you’re in a long distance relationship, you have to know that there’s at least the possibility that one day you’ll be together. Your routine you got to set the next time that you’re going to see each other and you go for quality, not quantity. Don’t obsess over having Constant Contact. I just saw someone Post today. Do you get mad when you see your partner is on social media if they haven’t texted you good morning? I mean, are we really checking it like that? Are we really social media stalking them all the time. There’s so many great tips. If you are engaging in a long distance relationship, you should check out this Cosmo article because we need to get your relationships growing and deepening even throughout this pandemic. One couple whose relationship seems to be strong in spite of some big challenges is Kim and Kanye. It’s been a minute since we’ve talked about Kim and Kanye on the show, but after his campaign rally for the birthday party, you may remember a couple weeks ago that Kanye is running for president. She had to just come out and say, Look, y’all, he is mentally ill. He’s done many interviews talking about the fact that he is bipolar. And I’m not going to give you a whole lesson on mental illness or what it means to be bipolar. But let’s just say that all All of this plays into the narrative that’s going on in the Kim and Kanye household right now. And that’s going on in Kanye his mind. And one thing I think we don’t talk about enough is the fact that mental illness is a big factor in relationships. And many of us coming through this pandemic are dealing with depression, anxiety, insomnia, you know, maybe it’s not as intense as what Kanye is going through. But everybody is coming to the table with their own stressors and with their own challenges, right, in the mental health space. So I actually think this is really good that Kim spoke on this. And she wanted everyone to give them their space to be able to process this and you may find that you’re in a relationship with someone who has already been dealing with mental illness or sometimes a trauma or a triggering event or I don’t know, maybe a pandemic might happen, and new mental health challenges arise. And if your relationship is strong, then the two of you can work through anything together. And if your partner wants to run for the birthday party, then you know you got to back them up and help them get the resources they need to move through it. Those are the headlines for today. Speaking of mental health, I have something very important to share with you. Before we get to garcelle.

 

We are back with the very first interview segment of the season. At the top of the show, I mentioned that I’m giving you a special sneak peek into my coaching program with a very special celebrity client. You know, garcelle Beauvais from the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. And she also just launched a podcast called going to bed with garcelle. So if you haven’t been following what’s happening on real housewives or her podcast, let me get you up to speed garcelle is Ready to get back out there after a breakup and a high profile divorce. She is a talented, high powered career gal with a lovely family. And we’re going to help her set the tone for her new dating journey today. So without further ado, please give big smooches to my girl garcelle Beauvais. I’m so glad that you’re here joining me for this experience. You’re a brave lady. Oh,

 

Unknown Speaker  9:29  

boy.

 

Unknown Speaker  9:31  

Holding on,

 

Damona  9:33  

you’ve always been brave. You’ve always been bold and you know, we got to talk during your podcast, going to bed with garcelle. And I’m curious, what made you start that podcast and then what made you interested in dating coaching and asking some of these kind of questions right now. You know,

 

Unknown Speaker  9:49  

for me, I’ll start off with going to bed with garcelle. That’s been a thing that once a month when I don’t have my kids on a Sunday, I would have friends over and we drink. We gossip If we talk and eventually conversations always came up about sex. So it was always a good time. And at the end of all these things, basically what I’m saying goodbye to everybody. People would say, why aren’t you doing this? This is a show. Why aren’t you doing this? So my producing partner and I were like, Okay, let’s do it. And it’s been so much fun. We’ve had amazing guests, you included, and it’s been really great to get women together to talk about sex and talk about their lives and talk about you know, what we’re doing moving forward in terms of COVID No, COVID quarantine, quarantine.

 

Damona  10:31  

So here we are, and you go there on the show. Do not hold anything back. And I know it takes a lot of bravery. But it also takes a lot of bravery. garcelle to be a cast member of The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. And have those cameras in going through all the experiences that you went through and I know you’ve had some ups and downs like

 

Unknown Speaker  10:55  

everybody else relationship. Yeah, like, you know, I think I’m a romantic At heart, I love love. And for some reason, the love that I have chosen in the past haven’t been lasting love, you know, I’d like to find my soulmate and you know, go off into the sunset with him.

 

Damona  11:13  

Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, we have to give you some credit. We have to give you some credit because even though you haven’t found someone that you’re with for your entire life, you’ve had successful relationships. You’ve been in relationships that have lasted.

 

Unknown Speaker  11:28  

That’s true. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for making me take a moment and take that in. You’re absolutely right. I mean, obviously, my children, all three of my boys came from loving relationships. So that’s an amazing thing. But in terms of, you know, I want to find my soulmate. I’m the type of girl that if I go shopping, if I go, do I want that dress, I don’t know. It’s not for me. I know when I see something and I want it and that’s for me, and that’s what I want to find. Because I feel like in my relationships in the past, it’s been like, he’s a nice guy, he’s good on paper, and he’ll be fine but it hasn’t been like, that’s my man. And that’s what I want to find

 

Damona  12:08  

right now. I it’s a weird time, you know, coming out of the Coronavirus haze. So, right now, would you say your status is single and ready to mingle single singing

 

Unknown Speaker  12:20  

about mango? Mango.

 

Damona  12:24  

Alright, so let’s pretend like if we were beginning a coaching process just I know we talked about this on your show, but I’ll just run everybody through there’s five steps in my dating funnel. And if you’re not where you want to be in love one of those things, one of those elements of the funnel is broken. We just patch it up. When then we just flow some love through it and keep on moving. So the five, five funnel steps are mindset sourcing, screening, presentation and flirting and then follow through. Okay, so we’re going to start with mindset nurses. Pick up right You said you’re very clear you you know when you want something, you know

 

Unknown Speaker  13:05  

what it’s for me, I know what I want. I don’t waver.

 

Damona  13:08  

Yeah. Okay, so let’s, let’s take a look at what relationship patterns you’ve had in the past. And then, and then I’d like to take you on a little journey to get crystal clear on who that person is that you would like to meet. Oh my god,

 

Unknown Speaker  13:23  

girl, how much are we going to spend on this? Oh God, like

 

Damona  13:30  

an iceberg. And this is a mindset piece that we’ll get into today. Like maybe we’ll have you come back

 

Unknown Speaker  13:35  

the other element,

 

Damona  13:36  

but looking at your past relationships, is there any common denominator that you can realize between your marriages or I know you had another significant relationship that ended fairly recently? Is there any commonality that you see between them?

 

Unknown Speaker  13:54  

Two things, I think,

 

Unknown Speaker  13:58  

not that I forced things but I I tend to go Okay, let me just go along with this. So I’m sort of going in half in half out. And I think the second thing is that maybe because I love love, I may jump too quickly.

 

Damona  14:14  

Hmm. Would you say then that you moved into those relationships? Like it went from courtship into commitment very clearly.

 

Unknown Speaker  14:24  

Because I’m not a big data, or I haven’t been in the past. I’m like, you know, to me, I feel like it’s always like, oh, then I got to start all over again with what I like and what I don’t like and this is me and sort of like always getting to renew Reno someone. So I think the guys that have been in my life, I feel like because I don’t like to date, I pick one and I make a mind kind of like caveman I hit him over the head and I drag him home

 

Damona  14:48  

or you got to do it modern.

 

Unknown Speaker  14:51  

Exactly. Like I pick guys that I’m like, Oh, he’s nice and nice. It’s not enough or he safe. And then I realized maybe That wasn’t the safe guy for me.

 

Damona  15:02  

Well, and I know you’ve you’ve shared on real housewives that you dealt with infidelity in the past to in a marriage. And I know that’s a really tough thing to return to a relationship where you can trust after that. What has been your the your divorce happened?

 

Unknown Speaker  15:22  

My boys are 12 they were three so

 

Damona  15:27  

so how are you feeling now in terms of your ability to trust again? And

 

Unknown Speaker  15:33  

I feel like I’m a trusting person. And one of the reasons why didn’t want to sort of fix my marriage, if you will, was I felt like it would change the dynamic of who I am. I would become the person who checks your phone, where have you been where you were? Or are you and I didn’t want to become that person because that’s not who I am. And then obviously, it was a bigger, bigger thing in my marriage, but I feel like I can trust That’s not the issue. I feel like I can trust. I think I give everybody the benefit of the doubt

 

Damona  16:05  

Not a lot of people can do that. Sure. What do you think? Do you think that’s something in just the way you were raised or just your worldview or some process that you went through, to be able to trust?

 

Unknown Speaker  16:16  

I think it’s just my worldview. Honestly, I just feel like everybody, I always tell my kids like at the beginning of a school year, they’ll say, Oh, Mom, this teacher we’re getting I heard is really mean are really strict. And I always say, that’s somebody else’s experience. Like I want you to go when that’s not your experience. You go in and you figure out what your experiences with this teacher, and I think that’s what I tend to do. I tend to give everybody the benefit of the doubt. Do I have a little jealousy bone? Yes, but not trusting.

 

Damona  16:47  

I think everybody to some extent, except for I don’t know, we didn’t episode last season with a dating coach who’s polyamorous so maybe that’s a whole different conversation. But that’s out there. Really? tip that you want. So talk to me then about the relationship that you envision for yourself, keeping in mind all of your past experiences and then what you see when you like, close your eyes. garcelle and you’ve visualize what your life will look like when you are with that soulmate that you said, is coming into your life who is he?

 

Unknown Speaker  17:24  

He excites me. He walks into a room and I smile from the inside out, because I know that’s my man and that doesn’t mean that he’s perfect, but he’s just my man. He is fun, full of life. Kind. He is tall, slender, I’m giving it all to you. He supports me and lets me be who I am and loves my children. My they don’t need a dad they you know, they just their dads in their lives. So it’s not about that I want somebody I can lean on emotionally, financially, sometimes. I mean, you know, I want someone who’s doing better than me in that way. Who loves to dance who loves to travel who wants to give back to the world, a guy who I can talk to all hours of the night and we can laugh, we can

 

Unknown Speaker  18:19  

have the same life goals and grow together.

 

Unknown Speaker  18:24  

That’s what I want.

 

Damona  18:25  

Well, I saw you, for those that are just listening to the podcast that couldn’t see the video, you just weren’t in it and you were really getting into the feeling, which is something that I’m always telling my clients and my listeners to do, like, what does it feel like to be with that person? Not just like, what qualities do they have no taller than slender.

 

Unknown Speaker  18:47  

Okay, I was giving you the picture girl.

 

Damona  18:50  

Well, you’re pretty tall yourself, right? Yes. And you’ve been a model and you need you need a guy of a certain caliber, but at the same time, you need him To make you feel good and still support you and your dreams and your goals and your vision, and I think a lot of times people miss out on I

 

Unknown Speaker  19:08  

want to be the girl. And when I say I want to be the girl, because I have such a strong personality, and this is something that I’m trying to switch up with my next relationship when that comes, is that not lead with what I do not lead with what I have accomplished, you know? And I feel like sometimes I tend to have a male dude tendencies in that way. And I want a guy who’s gonna make me feel like a girl.

 

Damona  19:33  

Now garcelle is this because you truly want that? And you truly feel that for yourself, that’s the life that you want, or is it out of like, feeling like you’ve taken on a masculine masculine role in past relationships. And you don’t want to feel that again? Or is it something where outside influences are telling you this is that you should try this

 

Unknown Speaker  19:59  

stuff. This is what I would love. And I feel like because you know, since the age of 17, I’ve been on my own, building my career. So I know how to take care of myself, I know how to take care of my household and my children. Being a single mom, I want someone that I can be a partner with. And I can feel like I don’t have to be more dominant because you’re my man. And I like I’m traditional in that sense. I would never take someone else’s last name. Again. I say that because it was so hard to get my last name back after I got adores, but I like the traditional, the traditional relationships in a way, to a certain extent.

 

Damona  20:43  

Yeah. What elements of that because this was something that came up on the TV show I did hashtag black love where they, one of the cast members said, Oh, I want a traditional man. But then he wanted her to be in the kitchen, cooking barefoot pregnant and then she was like, No, no, no, wait. What I actually wanted was a chivalrous Man,

 

Unknown Speaker  21:02  

clarify this man is what I’m looking for a chivalrous man who will open the door who will, you know, buy me gifts, but it doesn’t have to be expensive gifts. It’s the thought, but just making me feel like the girl that I’m not the dude.

 

Damona  21:15  

It’s an important distinction. But I’m, I’m really glad that you brought this up. Because I think for a lot of successful women, and a lot of the ladies that listen to this podcast, maybe they can’t relate to being being a celebrity, but they can relate to feeling like they’ve worked really hard for what they have, and they don’t want somebody to come in and take what they have hustled to get. But there’s also this feeling of not, you’re leading in so many areas of your life and especially as a single mom, right, you have so much on Yeah, that it’d be nice. I mean, even just to admit that it’d be nice to just have a partner who can take some of those risks. Exactly,

 

Unknown Speaker  21:53  

exactly. And that’s what I mean like somebody you can lean on or lean to.

 

Damona  21:59  

Alright, so So now we know who this guy is. So the next step in the process, we go into sourcing we go into, where would we find this person?

 

Unknown Speaker  22:09  

Girl? I have no idea.

 

Damona  22:14  

Okay, well, this is what I’m here for. So most of my clients, and the listeners know that online dating is the best bang for your buck for most of my clients. But I know you’re, you’re kind of you’re in a different situation, right? Because you’re looking to find somebody who is as established in their career as you are right? That isn’t looking to you because they’re like, well, I want to be with the garcelle. There. They’re actually wanting to be in partnership. Yeah, and even on RIAA, there’s a there’s a lot of like CNBC and we’ve talked about that before. So that leaves us with a couple of different options. There are still options for you girls at work. You got four areas where most of my clients meet someone, either Either through matchmaking and just to clarify, for those that don’t know and for you, I am a dating coach. I want to be your own you, I want you to be your own best matchmaker and to give you the tools to do this for yourself. I do collaborate with a number of matchmakers. And I think it’s a great tool, but we can talk about the pros and cons of it in a minute. The other way to me is at social gatherings and as we are moving out of Corona time, it’s a little bit of a trickier place. There’s chance meetings, same thing for Corona time, and then there’s meeting through friends. So of those four matchmaking, social gatherings, chance meetings, meeting through fans, which one would you want to tackle first?

 

Unknown Speaker  23:40  

chance meetings and meeting through friends because those seem to me like that’s more my lane.

 

Damona  23:46  

Okay. So when you go out into the world garcelle and let’s say you know, you’re just, you’re just doing you you’re just living our life.

 

Unknown Speaker  23:55  

Yeah.

 

Damona  23:57  

How do you feel like you present Do you? Do you? Are you keeping your eyes open? are you engaging with people with strangers that you don’t know? Or it’s funny,

 

Unknown Speaker  24:08  

I’ve had my friends in the past go, you move too fast, you don’t give people time you move too fast.

 

Damona  24:13  

Tell me what that means.

 

Unknown Speaker  24:15  

That means that, you know, we could be somewhere, let’s say we were at a party prior to, you know, all of this. And I would just walk through the party really fast. And a friend of mine, a gay friend of mine, who I was with and he goes, you move too fast, you don’t let you know. It’s sort of like you’re not taking the time to look and you’re not giving them the time to see. And I thought that was really interesting for him to say and I was like, wow, okay, so I don’t know how I moved through the world. I just me I don’t know.

 

Damona  24:44  

Wait, I’m gonna, we’re not gonna breeze through this. So fast through this. What is going through your mind like when you are when you’re showing up at a party or like, like you’re saying moving through the world and Moving through fast is it? Are you sort of thin slicing and looking at? Well, there’s nothing for me here or this isn’t the kind of environment or are you just completely unaware that that’s how people perceived?

 

Unknown Speaker  25:13  

perceived? I think I’m not aware. So I’m gonna say that one. I think I’m aware. I think I’m not taking the time to assess. You know, the room or Who’s there? I mean, I might see somebody who’s good looking, but obviously, if they’re have a ring on or they’re with someone, then I won’t. Obviously, I’ll keep it moving.

 

Damona  25:32  

Yes, yeah. So you look for that. Yeah, I’ll see you are and you are kind of assessing the room a little bit.

 

Unknown Speaker  25:39  

Oh, okay.

 

Damona  25:40  

Yeah, because if you are, if you’re looking around for things like rings, then you are looking with eyes that are looking for attraction. Okay. Right. So I don’t know if I agree with your friend. I mean, we’ll have to go out and hang and I’ll see I do this with clients. We’re all observed. Because we a lot of times we don’t know, like, you know, we we show up with not you because you’re always smiling. But you know, sometimes people will show up with resting bitchface you know and not have any idea that that when you when you even when you feel uncomfortable yourself sometimes you’ll put a mask on of trying to suss it out. Yeah. And that can be read from others as unapproachable and approachable or, like you’re not having a good time. So what I have my clients do is just resting smile face because it feels it feels dumb to walk into a room and you’re just like smiling, happy to be there. Yeah, it always looks like you are the life of the party. And it looks like you’re someone that’s approachable and that they would want to talk to, if you’re always smiling, but that’s why smiling, right?

 

Unknown Speaker  26:53  

It’s a hard adjustment for a lot of people. So yeah, so not for you.

 

Unknown Speaker  26:57  

intimidation, I was talking to a friend of mine and she was like What do you think guys are intimidated, but I have to believe that my guy won’t be intimidated.

 

Unknown Speaker  27:06  

You do have to buy my success, right?

 

Damona  27:08  

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And this is something that comes up a lot. It’s hard for many people to hear that. rejections, your protection. So if somebody is not enough for you garcelle if someone rejects you or is intimidated by you, because you’re too much, then that person was not enough for you or gay man the confidence in themselves, the right person. And interestingly, it might come in a slightly different package than you expect. But short right person will show up for you and will not be intimidated by all that you have will only want to add to it. I mean, of course you’re a gorgeous woman and you’re very successful. So for any man to approach you there’s there’s some level of courage confidence that he will have to have, yeah, but the right ones will be able to, to push through that and, and would would still approach you or engage with you. I mean, also for successful women, a lot of times, I have to remind them that they are in the driver’s seat in terms of queuing, an approach, like a guy needs to know that he’s not going to be blown off not going to make have a right make a fool of himself if he goes up and talks to you, right and the way that you can signal that without necessarily even having to approach him is just by like making extra eye contact, smiling or, or potentially finding a reason to engage in a casual conversation with him without any any goals of where it’s going to go. But just casual conversations and I talked about creating openings just create an opening for our magic to happen. For you,

 

Unknown Speaker  29:00  

that sounds beautiful.

 

Damona  29:02  

Okay, so once we are able to move out into the world, that’s that’s where we’ll start with that. And then when we talk about meeting through friends, how many blind dates have you been set up on before?

 

Unknown Speaker  29:14  

Oh, Mmm Hmm, maybe two in my life. How good

 

Damona  29:20  

were they? I’m single. Right? Right. A lot of times we’ll get setups from our friends and they are projecting they are putting on what they think you need. So they set you up with someone who is someone they would be attracted to. They’re single or someone that they they haven’t had this conversation that you and I had about right? What’s your vision? What are your goals, so if you could distill everything that we did a moment ago down into three must have qualities and one deal breaker I only give you one deal breaker, but three must haves and one deal breaker that then you could communicate to someone. And it doesn’t seem like you’re too shy about acknowledging that you’re single and ready to mingle. Am I right? Oh,

 

Unknown Speaker  30:09  

no, you’re absolutely right. Because how else am I going to fix it? Right?

 

Damona  30:14  

Right that I’m so glad you said that. garcelle that’s something that a lot of people have a hard time embracing. There’s a shame around singlehood that if I say, I’m single, if I acknowledge aloud to another person that I’m single, and I’d like to meet someone that I am, I am weak or that I’ve failed. And that’s not the case at all. It’s just it hasn’t been an anime.

 

Unknown Speaker  30:34  

I think society has done that to us, especially women. I’m you know, I have nieces who are grown women, and will have family reunions and people be like, Oh, my God, how are you still single? or Why are you single? Or, and I feel like that’s what society says that if you’re single, it’s almost like you’re no longer good. Or, you know, growing up you were an old maid if you weren’t married by 20 you know? Things like that, I think is what people set us up for. And then we take that on as if it’s true.

 

Damona  31:08  

Yeah, it’s a lot of old fashioned ideals. And yeah, that’s what’s exciting to me about this time is that we’re getting to rewrite a lot of the rules. And we’re getting to examine a lot of our preconceived ideas about even you know, gender identity and gender dynamics in a relationship, and even race and culture and religion and all these things that we were told were the most important things, right. And in today’s world, culture is is in constant flux. You have to be I think, to give yourself the best chance at love. We have to be open to the fluidity of that and open to evolving so I’m glad to hear that that you are but you know, society might not be ready, but society, Angel Matchmaker, so yeah, willing to share that with ya. The people close to you. And also One thing that I do with my clients is I have them make a connector circle, which goes beyond that first layer. Because a lot of times we’ll ask those people that are closest to us because that’s the least vulnerable thing to do to say to our girlfriends, some of those people that came over on Sunday maybe will say, hey, do you know anybody who’s single, but we don’t give them any specifics on who that person should be. And we don’t we we don’t go beyond just that. That immediate circle. And if your girlfriend knew the person that you probably would have met already, good point. So we want to go one degree beyond look at friends of friends. So it’s like create a little bit create like a phone tree, like those old fashioned phone and figure out who might know the kind of person that would have all of those interesting. Yeah, so it’s a little homework assignment for you. And then once you have those three qualities, you can find a way to communicate with That person directly and say, by the way, I’m single. And if you happen to know anybody who’s this, this and this, I would love to know, okay, now, you’re, you’re sort of training their brain to be a matchmaker for him, that is all the time when they say, Do you know anybody who’s single? And they’re like going through their mental database, right? Well, I don’t know. Like, now you’ve given me a job. Right? Right. Right. So okay, connector circle and your ideal mate three qualities. And then also, when we’re talking about meeting out in the world, I want to make sure that you’re in the space with like minded people. So based on the qualities that you told me, what’s what give me one or two places where you think that man might go like, let’s assume Coronavirus is kind of over where would you meet a man like that?

 

Unknown Speaker  33:56  

The first thing that came to my mind if I’m going to do it that way it would be I would Golf.

 

Unknown Speaker  34:02  

Oh, I love that. I love it.

 

Unknown Speaker  34:05  

Yes. And again, in my mind, do I know how to play? No. But yeah, I think that

 

Damona  34:10  

I love that and I, you know, I don’t know that I’ve fly it, say golf but you’re absolutely right and I’ll tell you like hot tip when I used to golf, which is a while ago, you know,

 

Unknown Speaker  34:27  

oh my god, that’s what we can do together.

 

Damona  34:29  

You want to go go? I terrible. I’m terrible now, but we could we could improve together but what I’ll tell you is that sometimes being terrible is not a bad thing. Because you can go to the driving range and there are a lot of guys there who would be willing to help you with your swing whether you ask them or sometimes not. Right, but just being there and looking like you’re open to having someone help you guide you that could

 

Unknown Speaker  34:54  

be a really great place. Awesome place

 

Unknown Speaker  35:01  

I don’t want to see a party because I go to a lot of parties and I feel like that’s not really it. Um, I don’t know the market. Huh?

 

Damona  35:10  

Look like just the grocery store like regular army like

 

Unknown Speaker  35:13  

where else Where else? It’s funny.

 

Damona  35:16  

Um, I got a hold of some stats from match calm about meeting at the grocery store. I know that’s a lot of people’s

 

Unknown Speaker  35:23  

fantasy the most.

 

Damona  35:25  

Yeah, it is. Especially now but it turns out not a lot of couples actually meet their online dating and meeting through friends are the top ways that people meet. But I do not want to discount chance meetings but yeah, maybe maybe a car dealership. Car is good too. And I know that’s a big topic of conversation on real housewives. But, but no, I want to stay with the market for a second. Okay, because the question is what kind of market because if you go to, let’s say You are really into a healthy lifestyle. And you go to the farmers market, there’s a lot of communication points and I talk about creating openings around something that you’re curious about. So if you’re at the farmers market, there’s like a new vegetable that you haven’t seen. You can just ask a cute guy standing next to you. Have you ever cooked with this? Like, what the heck is this thing right? And then you’re in it. I know like, once you get in the conversation garcelle it’s it’s gonna flow it’s just a matter of making that chance encounter. Jericho, you’re gonna meet a different kind of person at Yeah, air one, which is for those that that don’t know is sort of a high end health food market. Then you are at Ralph’s, which is like right now every day chop.

 

Unknown Speaker  36:52  

Your Man is for lunch. I knew that about you. I knew that.

 

Unknown Speaker  36:57  

No shade of food for less but

 

Damona  36:58  

no, yes. Jake right and we’ve been out. Now we know the guy we figure out where we can go find him. Girl, I could talk to you about this forever.

 

Unknown Speaker  37:07  

For a lot of

 

Damona  37:09  

a lot of homework so you’re gonna come back and report back.

 

Unknown Speaker  37:15  

I love it. This is so much fun.

 

Damona  37:17  

This was so much fun and remember garcelle also to give them a chance, like your friend said, sometimes you can breathe through breeze through. I have a three date rule. So try to make a connection. Give it try to give it three dates, if you can. Okay, let him come out of his shell and really show his true colors. But if after the third date ain’t happening, then it happened. It occurred. Okay.

 

Unknown Speaker  37:40  

I love it. Thank you so much for being here.

 

Unknown Speaker  37:42  

Thank you. I enjoyed it so much.

 

Damona  37:44  

to y’all you have to check out her podcast going to bed with garcelle and get yourself caught up on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills on Bravo. Before we move on and get to answering your dating and relationship questions I wanted to let you know how I can help you too. If you’re feeling overwhelmed about dating and relationships and looking for more support, then you are the perfect person to become one of my friends with benefits on Patreon. What is Patreon you may ask? Well, Patreon is a platform that allows you to support creators like me to keep making helpful content that you want to hear and allow you to get amazing listener benefits in the process. You can check out our page@patreon.com slash dates and mates, you’re probably wondering what do you get if you sign up? Well, first, you’ll get access to my private Facebook group for all the friends with benefits where you can chat with me and other listeners of the show in a safe and supportive space. Plus, you’ll get access to my weekly behind the mic. This is a new feature, where I will give you the insider take on the latest episode and even some additional content and tips that will help support you on whatever topic we’re talking about that week. And you’ll also Get behind the scenes content and some of our library episodes from some of the past 300 plus episodes of dates and mates. Just go to patreon.com slash dates and mates and you can join for only $5. And then hopefully we can keep this show going for maybe another eight seasons more. All right, when we come back, I will be answering your questions, so don’t go anywhere. Welcome back. I am here and ready to answer all of your relationship questions. A little something different since I just launched the LA Times column dear demona. We are doing a bit of a rebrand you have known this segment for seven seasons as technically dating, but now let me introduce to you our new q&a segment.

 

Unknown Speaker  39:54  

damona help me

 

Damona  39:55  

this one comes to us from one of our Fw B’s. Lauren. Hey girl, she says I had a Convo with a guy. And it turns out he hates to go out and spend money. He came from a poor household and I have no issues with funds. How can I suggest that we’d be okay to go out without him feeling like he needs the finances to do so? Oh, this is this is a real issue in a lot of relationships, you know, couples tend to fight about money more than anything else. And the bottom line is that he needs to feel like he’s contributing to the relationship in some way. So even if you have the finances by you saying, well, I’ll just pay for it. I’ll just take you out. It might make him feel a little bit like he’s not at your level, it might make him feel less than and it might send the relationship in the wrong direction. You have to be a little bit more creative if you want to be with him, but it’s not an issue for you that he doesn’t have the money. Then try to be more creative and figure out some day That you can do that don’t cost anything. There are so many things, especially in the pandemic world. You can go for a hike, you can maybe do a sip and paint night at home and get, get supplies that you do together play a game that you already have. There are so many ways that you can connect with someone without having to spend money. And actually, this is a good tip for everyone. I really encourage you to get creative with your dates right now, we can’t do the same old dinner in a movie. So why not use this as an opportunity to connect on a deeper level? Last question for today comes from Instagram. This person says I’m about to be 50 what dating advice do you have for the older crew? So this comes to us from a lady and as you know in society, there are a lot of people that try to make you feel like if you’re 50 or 60 or whatever you should just hang up the towel because Dating is done. And that is just ridiculous. I have helped clients all the way up to their 80s find love again and find love online, many of them. So that’s the great takeaway is that because of dating apps, people who may not have had an opportunity to find love again, maybe if you’ve been divorced or widowed, or you’ve just been focusing on your career or other things and haven’t had the time to date, you still have the ability to make a connection, even if you don’t have the same single circles that you used to. So what I would say first of all, is just to feel 50 and fabulous and know that it’s just a number and you will read some statistics that say men would would not write back to you, if you’re older or if you see that they’re looking for someone in their, I don’t know 40s and you’re 4950 that it’s not worth it to eat Reach out or swipe right. Don’t believe everything that you read, I say, take a swing for it. And I’ve said this on the show before. If someone sees that you have an active lifestyle that you seem flexible, and you can roll with things and that you’re attractive that they’re attracted to your pictures and your profile, they’re going to write you back, regardless of what that number says. So I say, live your 50 fabulous life. Don’t worry about what the number is. But be proactive, as I always say to women, be proactive, send outgoing messages, generate conversations, maybe pick up some of those, those opening lines that we gave you from the dating dish, and put yourself out there, see what you can get in return. That’s it for today’s episode number 321. updates and mates. Make sure you catch me later this season on guard sells new podcast go into bed with garcelle where she talks all about six intimacy. It’s a hot one, y’all. I think you’ll like it though. And as always, we will put the links from today’s show in the show notes at dates and maids.com. While you’re there, I also have free gifts. I have a free profile starter kit, which will get you online, refresh your profile, get you out there, dating, whatever age, whatever, whatever photos you have, I’ll hook you up and that’s all free at dates and mates calm or if you’re already in a relationship starting something new. You want to keep things fresh, you can get the seven day relationship boot camp, all those tools are free for you at dates and mates calm. And then if you want to go a step deeper with me, please I invite you to check out the Patreon Friends with Benefits Program and support this show for just $5 a month@patreon.com slash dates and mates. I would love to hear from you. You can connect with me on all the socials at damona Hoffman and don’t forget to DM me about how you felt about today’s episode. Whatever questions are on your mind, so I can answer them in a future show. I’ll be back again next week with more modern love advice. Until then, I wish you happy dating

Love Lessons: Love is Blind – Carlton

LOVE LESSONS

Many of you have reached out recently expressing quarantine fatigue which is compounded by being single. You have a deep desire for someone to navigate this period of fear and frustration. You can only do so many zoom calls with friends to make up for the fact that you’re solo all day every day. And dating apps have lost their allure with the possibility that you may not be able to meet in person for weeks or even months.

So this month, we are going to have a completely different format from the usual Dates & Mates. This series is designed to take you deeper on a mental, spiritual, and even physical level to design the love life you want. This unexpected break from the rat race of love and life we had been caught in is giving us an opportunity to get clarity and explore parts of ourselves that had been buried away.

Today Damona invites you to begin a four-part journey called  Love Lessons.

via GIPHY

We will launch the series today with an interview that will make you feel all the feels. The other 3 episodes will be full of visualization, meditation, and self-inquiry.

Today, you will learn along with Carlton from Love is Blind as he reflects upon what he learned from the groundbreaking social experiment and TV series that he participated in.

Do you remember Love is Blind? For those who haven’t seen it – you might want to binge-watch the entire Netflix series and then come back and relisten to this podcast once you’re in the know because Carlton is going to spill all the tea and give all the spoilers and even reveal something he has NEVER said in an interview before.

But above all, this is a love lesson.

It’s a lesson in self-awareness, bravery and forgiveness:

LOVE IS BLIND (3:00)

Carlton teaches us:

  • The power of vulnerability
  • To move into your dream relationship you need to be willing to forgive the past.
  • Why you should face your fear.
  • We are constantly growing and evolving and that means you don’t need to wait for healing to occur or enlightenment to strike to be ready to date again.
  • How to keep faith.

Find more from Carlton on Instagram @CarltonMorton or donate to Camp Carlton – his charity for the children of his hometown – if you feel called!

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:12  

Modern love Made Simple. This is dates and mates with damona Hoffman. Hello lovers, so many of you have reached out to me recently expressing quarantine fatigue, which is compounded by being single, you have a deep desire for someone to navigate this period of fear and frustration. You can only do so many zoom calls with friends to make up for the fact that your solo all day every day. And dating apps have lost their allure with the possibility that you may not be able to meet in person for weeks or even months. So this month, we are going to have a completely different format from the usual dates and mates. This series of four episodes is designed to take you deeper on them mental, spiritual and even physical level to design the love life you want. This unexpected break from the rat race of love and life that we’ve been caught in is giving us an opportunity to get clarity and explore parts of ourselves which have been buried away. Today, I invite you to begin a four part journey with me called love lessons. We will launch the series today with an interview that will make you feel all the fields. The other three episodes will be full of visualization, meditation, and self inquiry. Today you will learn along with Carlton from love is blind as he reflects upon what he learned from the groundbreaking social experiment and TV series that he participated in. You remember Love is blind. For those who have not seen it. You might want to go back and binge watch the entire Netflix series and then come back and re listen to this podcast. Once you’re in the know Because Carlton is going to spill all the tea y’all, and he’s going to give you all the spoilers and even reveal something that he has never said in an interview before. But above all, this is a love lesson. It’s a lesson in self awareness, and bravery, and forgiveness. The TLDR version of His love story is that he was one of the seven guys on the show who proposed to someone sight unseen. But when he revealed to his fiance diamond that he was bisexual, the relationship fell apart in a spectacular reality TV blow up. Then in the reunion, he got down on one knee and asked her if they could be friends again, but today, they are both single. All right, let’s get big smooches to Carlton from love is blind. Oh man, we gotta talk. Thank you for being here.

Carlton Morton  3:02  

Thanks for having me. How are you?

Damona  3:04  

I am so great and I am such a fan of love as blind as a dating coach. I think it was an awesome experiment and experience for people to go to but I, I have questions and a lot of my listeners have questions because especially like going through Coronavirus, and then watching Love is blind at the same time. There are a lot of parallels coming up. So let’s just initially start with the experience of Wait, wait, wait, I gotta back it up to what the heck would make you want to even do the show in the first place?

Carlton Morton  3:39  

Well, I was looking for love, like I’m still in love, but that’s a whole nother story. I was looking for love and I’m wanting to be married and I thought that it would be an amazing experiment to be a part of.

Damona  3:52  

So you knew going into it that if you wanted to meet your person you would have to propose and that was the deal. From from the beginning.

Carlton Morton  4:01  

Yeah, I knew that if I felt that, you know that that was one of the options, but I also knew that there was a possibility that I may not match with anyone. They kept saying, you know, it’s just a social experiment. There’s like no strings attached. You don’t have to do this. And it was just real connections formed every single time. Okay, so everyone’s asking what was it like in the pods? The pods like I could still smell the pods. I remember what they smell like they smell like so fresh. It’s smells like a bath and beyond and like, you know, walking past like the oils and the Roma oils, like the pods were so posh and comfortable and cozy like sometimes we even fall asleep in the pods like sometimes we had long dates, like late night dates that we’d be sitting down, you know, just chillin just kicking back and just falling Blake you fall asleep on Sunday. Dates because it’s like it’s not that a person is necessarily boring. It’s just It’s been a long day of dates. And you just kind of want to kick back and you’re having a relaxing conversation. It’s like falling asleep on the phone.

Damona  5:11  

Like all times. Could you choose who you went into the pod with? Or was it sort of like Chatroulette?

Carlton Morton  5:19  

Knowing we couldn’t choose there was a formula to it. So it kind of went off of who ranked to the highest. And that’s basically who you match with. There was like a algorithm I wish we could have. Because I tried to like on numerous occasions, I tried to sacrifice like or, or donate my time to someone else to go on a date with someone that maybe I knew I wouldn’t have a connection with, to get more time with my ex.

Damona  5:44  

Okay, so spoiler alert. For those that haven’t watched the show. Pause the podcast right now. Come back, go. Go watch. It’s like what like 11 episodes, something like that with the reunion 1112 episode. So go watch it, then come back and do hit play again. Spoiler alert, so Carlton is one of the participants who decided to propose. But he didn’t quite get to the the happy ending. You did hear that he said he was single right now. Take me through the next phase of the pod. How did you know? You and diamond got engaged? And that’s a big deal. You had never met this woman and you got down on one knee and proposed, what was it about diamond? Or was it something that she said How did you know what was that moment when when you decided to like take the plunge and and propose?

Carlton Morton  6:37  

Um, I just knew like, the moment that we really opened up was when I thought when we talked about our father’s book, our dad’s passed away. So we really connected on that, even to the point where we both had stories like with our dad’s past, where she would collect ladybugs or her dad and I would collect fireflies, my dad It was just kind of like little moments like that. And then even when it came time to see her for the first time, I was in my dressing room, five minutes before I was thinking in my head, wow, it would be so great if you call her dad and a traditional type setting and you know, get his permission, but even if that was granted by producers who is not here anymore, so do you know right before I went to meet her, I look at my dressing room mirror and a lady is calling.

Damona  7:30  

You know, I believe in all of that I will cosign

Carlton Morton  7:36  

Okay, you know, so it was just little moments like that along the process just reassured me that she was the one for me like the connection was there she like sometimes she had like a little attitude, like, Oh, you don’t know my voice by now. And like that kind of got my attention. It was just little stuff like that.

Damona  7:57  

It was beautiful to watch all of that unfold. I Do want to ask as a person of color? And as I mean it didn’t look like there were that many people of color in the mix. Was that something that you had ever thought about finding something like were you intentionally looking for a black woman or was it just it was or similarity of familiarity or was it just chance that she happened to be black you think?

Carlton Morton  8:25  

Well, from me I’ve always dated like different races so it didn’t matter to me going into the process. Why I ended up with I like literally went into it thinking Love is blind and I still believe love true love is blind. Um, but I just thought like, if I end up with someone else would that be an issue like all those thoughts do go through my head. I hope I answered your question, but it didn’t matter to me if it would have been someone that was no.

Damona  8:55  

Yeah, I do feel like sometimes you have that additional pressure though to when you’re The only black couple I mean, obviously Lauren, Lauren’s black but when you’re the only black couple to you know every there’s a lot of pressure like I I hosted this show that was by the same production company called hashtag black love that was sort of born out of married at first sight and Monet. It was inspired by Monet’s story and she and her husband on married at first sight when they were the only black couple. And so everybody was like, please make it please make it please make it and then when they didn’t, it’s like, I’m carrying the whole weight of every you know, everyone who’s black on my shoulders in this one relationship? Yeah,

Carlton Morton  9:36  

I definitely feel felt that after, like, after the show came out, and still to this day, I feel like a certain way even when it came to speaking up about racial injustice and police brutality. I felt like the moment that I speak up, someone is going to say hi, we just witness you are With a black woman, and degrade a black woman in an argument on national TV, that’s what they would have said. So like, it took some like prayer and some soul searching to really just navigate, especially this time, and then the whole like social thing is just like it’s crazy. You know? So there is a lot of pressure.

Damona  10:20  

Yeah, it’s complicated right now.

Carlton Morton  10:22  

Yeah. And there were a lot of amazing black women on the show that you didn’t necessarily get to see because they didn’t necessarily find matches. But there were some some amazing black woman on it.

Damona  10:33  

Would you do it again?

Carlton Morton  10:35  

Oh, absolutely. Do it again, because I’m still looking for love. And I feel like love is blind get better matching me and I’ve ever met myself.

Damona  10:42  

Alright, so let’s talk about can we go a little bit and do your dating history? I mean, to to even go through the experience of proposing to someone you have to feel like that person is different. But I know you revealed on the show, Carlton, that you had dated men. In the past as well, and that was not always something that that women you dated, were open to talk to me about that and and even just the decision because you knew if you were going on love is blind, you knew that they were matching it with a woman. Yes,

Carlton Morton  11:16  

yes. Correct.

Damona  11:17  

So tell me about that process of understanding your own identity and sexual orientation. And then also in doing that on national television, that’s very brave.

Carlton Morton  11:32  

Thank you. Um, it took a while. It’s obviously been a long journey. Initially, I actually told someone in casting that when they reached out I was like, I don’t think this shows for me

Damona  11:43  

that just makes them want you more.

Carlton Morton  11:46  

I still, isn’t it like confident and like really just talking to strangers about sexuality at that point, and I don’t want to get on the show. And then it’s like, I’m some liar or I’m pretending to be a heterosexual male. I have to Be able to tell my truth to who to the person that I fall in love with. That was my thing. I wanted to make sure that if I went on the show, that was given a fair chance, there’s so many men who are bisexual or fluid and they can’t live their truth or whatever reason. So I wanted to show people that process and show people that bisexual people do have our minds when we love you, we love you, we’re with you. That was like major to me.

Damona  12:27  

But that that is a lot of responsibility as well to to kind of represent for the bisexual community because we haven’t seen a lot of that on TV you know, maybe like two or whatever. But we haven’t seen we haven’t seen that many people saying just what what you’re saying that like, and I’ve I’ve dealt with this with bisexual clients in the past with their their partner not feeling like they can be fully committed because by saying yes to you, I’m saying no to an entire gender of people but at the same time, that’s What it is even in, in a hetero relationship, if you say yes to a person and you want to be in a monogamous relationship, you’re saying no to everyone else. Yeah. Okay, but then I have to ask you Carlton, it took you a minute to express that to diamond What? What prevented you from telling her about your sexuality from the beginning?

Carlton Morton  13:25  

Well for one it was it like nine day process before I actually got to like see her in person. So it was actually very quickly. For me it was in this quick process. Why would I be so foolish as to just share that side not knowing for sure that this is the person that I’m gonna pose to because had I told any of the girls, all the girls on day one, it would have gone back to that side we would sharing notes like guys, we would say things like, Oh, you had a date with so and so. Oh, what does she say? Oh, for me, it was all about this moment. scary for me, it was about like opening up to the right person, instead of me telling them right now I’m going to get to know the person, make sure that this is someone that actually can love for the rest of my life. And then I’m going to share that information because otherwise they’ll go and tell my story for me. And what’s gonna happen, everybody’s gonna rank Crocs, and at the bottom of experiment.

Damona  14:23  

I hadn’t thought of it that way. And it’s interesting, the way that you talk about needing to tell your own story and you know, kind of control the narrative there. Do you feel like since all of the pod experience you’re not seeing the other person, you’re you’re just speaking to them behind the wall and that you have to propose if you want to actually see them in person. Do you feel like there was an element of you that thought if you and diamond could just be together face to face and you told her that she would have reacted in a more favorable way

Carlton Morton  15:00  

Absolutely Well, the thing is, I knew that it was inappropriate to like, tell her the first moment we seen each other when the doors slide open, and then it’s like awkward. So like, of course, that was in the back of my mind. After seeing her for the first time, I’m thinking, oh my god. So now we have to have this zation. And I hope that she’s still my fiance. After this conversation, we had the conversation. And again, that’s the face to face conversation, even if we were in the pods. And it was like there was a rule, you can’t go back and say what somebody told you or anything she did, she deserved at least a face to face conversation. And you know, it could have been done the day of the wedding. It could have been done the night of the bachelor party, but I was like, No, I do. It’s important to me, that we have that conversation before we spend our first night.

Damona  15:49  

Yeah, and I think I think we’re looking at the timeline. As you know, we spent all that time in the pods and then like, why did he wait until they’re on this trip together? But From your perspective, there was only nine days in the pods. That was pretty early. And you’re really you’re not just

Carlton Morton  16:05  

dating that person and there’s like time restraints. So there’s a lot of factors that went into when’s the right time? If you have 15 minutes for a date today, why would I start that conversation? And then like she’s stressing about it until we date against tomorrow, if we even have it at

Damona  16:22  

sea. You weren’t trying to just get a trip to my No,

Carlton Morton  16:24  

I wasn’t. I’m been around the world like, I look. I haven’t been around the world. Like I’ve been very blessed. I have amazing parents amazing exes, sometimes, and I’ve been around the world so it wasn’t about that. Or TBS people claim to see I’ve been on to number one shows prior to being blind. We’re Housewives of Atlanta and Basketball Wives.

Damona  16:46  

I would have taken that trip, but that’s just me.

Carlton Morton  16:49  

No, it’s amazing. It’s an amazing resort. Like you totally should look into it. It’s like the most peaceful place ever. That’s why I’m like, Oh my God, we couldn’t even stay And try to work it out.

Damona  17:01  

I know. So, talk to me about that moment when you finally got the courage to tell her. She didn’t quite react the way you were expecting, did she?

Carlton Morton  17:12  

He didn’t. Well, here’s the thing. I feel like she reacted the best. She knew how. And the way that she felt it was something that caught her off guard. Um, so I can’t like, you know, be mad at her for the way that she was fighting.

Damona  17:32  

But you did get kind of mad at her, though you did in that moment. And I know you’ve said you said in the reunion at and since then, that that wasn’t your proudest moment of how you reacted?

Carlton Morton  17:45  

No, it was it was very defensive and it was scary. That’s like the biggest thing it was a lot of fear in those scenes and just like no experience like you know, I’ve been on other shows, but I wasn’t on most shows today. My true to someone that I was about to walk down the aisle. So you know is it was one of those moments that I’m like, still cringe

Damona  18:09  

if you could rewrite it, Carlton, what would you have said and what would she have said how would it have gone differently?

Carlton Morton  18:16  

I would have told her that though it may be something that who, for please don’t count me out. It’s already happening, you know, and it’s like one of those things that I still I’m still like dealing with it. Like, I’m kind of over the whole like point that this show has happened and then whatever, but as far as like losing my

Damona  18:39  

I’m sorry, I

Carlton Morton  18:41  

know, I know. I’m sorry. Cuz like, and like,

Carlton Morton  18:44  

I will be like, Oh, you know, cooler like, everything’s all good and someone will be like, will talk to me about her. And then like, I’ll start talking about her. All right.

Damona  19:02  

Take your time. Take your time, brother.

Carlton Morton  19:04  

I gotta like miss my friend. You know what I’m saying? It’s like, we’re so much alike.

Carlton Morton  19:12  

Next question.

Damona  19:14  

Well, I know you said you’re still looking for love. You’re still single.

Carlton Morton  19:19  

Maybe I shouldn’t be though, right? Not just yet.

Damona  19:23  

Well, you ask him my opinion. Yeah. I think a lot of times we wait to be ready. But this is this is the moment like you are. You are, you’re in your life. And I think we learn most when we are in motion and an action. So my feeling is that you don’t wait to find love, but you should always be processing and that this, this is the process of uncovering who you are and what you really want. So what I was going to ask you is with the knowledge that you have the experience that you went through, and what You’re going through right now? What would you do differently? Like if you could do the show again or even just in in life and looking for love again? How? How would you come into it differently? How would you present Carlton in a new way or think differently of your partner?

Carlton Morton  20:19  

only show who Carlton truly is. And that’s not like a defensive person. I think part of not fully feeling like I was able to live my truth made me I will always have like a gate up or some type of like, defense mechanism that would be like on guard. But since coming out as fluid, things like I feel so free, so I feel like now I wouldn’t be so scared in the pods. I would have the conversation probably the moment that I feel like I have a connection with someone. Even if it was more than one person. I would still have like a compensation but it would have to be some blue. I have to get trust conversation that came with that. And hey, this is something I’m about to share with you and I don’t want for you to share it with anyone else here, that type of thing because that was like my main thing like, Oh my god, what if she goes to her, and she’s gonna tell her and like, it was a lot going on,

Damona  21:19  

even though you’re not in the pod, so I feel like this is still a conversation that you’re going to need to have right? You’re still absolutely going to need to figure out that point of when to really fully bring yourself to the relationship and I know a lot of our listeners are are grappling with that too, especially during Coronavirus time where like we’re we’re talking like in like you were in the pods only it’s through your phone and they don’t really know people but you almost develop this false sense of intimacy this feeling that you you think you know the person but you don’t really know the person. I mean, did you feel about Once you revealed your fluidity to diamond that like she was a different person than you thought she was, or do you think it was something else that that caused the rift

Carlton Morton  22:14  

to a certain extent, I felt that maybe she was a little different at swag kept saying, Please don’t be stereotypical right now because there were a few things that she was saying in that moment, that I was like, whoa, wait, like, so it made me like it turned to the fire just kept getting hotter and I was like, just loading, loading, loading, and then it just exploded. You know, there was like, a lot of back and forth that I was like, wait, that’s how you feel. That’s how you really feel like you know, but then looking back, I can’t like even fault her for those things. Because again, I said ain’t said I didn’t really know. Um, I don’t

Damona  23:00  

It’s so it’s so big of you to acknowledge that and even you know, I watched the reunion too, and how you really, really try to make amends with her. And that’s something that I think a lot of people aren’t able or willing to do.

Carlton Morton  23:16  

I tell you in an exclusive like, that I haven’t really told us that was such an impromptu, like, big sub speech, because my initial plan was that I was going to get my fiance back. Okay, I was gonna say, listen, we don’t have to start planning a wedding right now. But like, I want my fiance back and I want to save this, what can we do? But when I stood up, everybody kind of gas. And she kind of looked at me like, I know he is not about to propose. And so I was like, do you like go back to being publicly humiliated in front of millions of people? Or do you just like say face right now? So it’s like me See?

Carlton Morton  24:02  

I had it on my mind to get mushy. Yes.

Damona  24:05  

Wow. Thank you for sharing that with me.

Carlton Morton  24:09  

I’m like holding that in. And when you said it, I’m like, Oh, I haven’t lived that out.

Damona  24:14  

Yeah, I’m glad that you did. And I and you know them. We just live in so many boxes, Carlton. And it’s like there’s the box of being black. There’s a box of being bisexual. There’s a box of just being

Carlton Morton  24:27  

in a box. Yeah. And

Damona  24:28  

it’s hard to navigate that, and I think a lot of people watch the show. You know, we’re eating our popcorn. Like, he shouldn’t have said that. I can’t believe he did that. Oh, girl. Did you see that?

Carlton Morton  24:37  

Yeah.

Damona  24:38  

But like, it’s so nice to be able to really talk to you as you’re processing. And you’re still processing it. And we’d like to think that if we were in the same situation, oh, we wouldn’t have done that. Right. You don’t know. You don’t know if those cameras aren’t in your face. And you don’t have the pressure of that moment. Like anything could happen.

Carlton Morton  24:59  

And I think it’s more Importantly about we have to start thinking as humans, where do we put the most emphasis on? As it relates to what matters? I don’t get why there is a constant attack on the LGBT II when it comes time for us to live in our truth. Because there are a lot of factors that we could hold against other people. Hey, what’s your political party? Hey, I was definitely asking people’s political.

Damona  25:24  

Well, that’s become one of the biggest filters on dating apps and in dating today that that is now it went from being, you know, number five or six on the list to now number one or two for most people. But you’re right, you’re right. You know what it is Carlton, it’s fear. It’s that it’s fear of the unknown. And I mean, even I’m feeling right now. I wrote this Washington Post piece about racial bias in dating, and people are not handling it. Well. I have to just say, people are not handling my my suggestion that we question Our own beliefs and we ask, Well, why? Why am I so afraid of that? Or why have I drawn that line in the sand? And I’m somebody also, like, one of my boyfriend’s was bisexual, openly, like, I knew that he was bisexual. He’s now gay. But you know, it’s a it’s a spectrum, right? Yeah. So so I can absolutely relate to everything that you’re saying. But something about the way I was raised I was conditioned to question and to be open and to not draw some of those lines in the sand that a lot of other people just haven’t had the opportunity yet yet. Growth Mindset to explore. And that’s what you’re up against. It’s it’s like that the box like I was saying,

Carlton Morton  26:46  

No, and I think representation matters. Like there needs to be like people need to continue seeing people like myself on TV who are bisexual black men, you know, because otherwise, like, what do we have to look up to them? No, there was no one on TV. Like me before me. Like I looked everywhere reality TV kind of sir. Like, there was no one like me on TV before me. So I’m very proud that I could like at least start the conversation.

Damona  27:16  

Yeah. Thank you for blazing that trail.

Carlton Morton  27:19  

Yeah, you honor. honor that I chose me. I think it’s time that people see like, you know, more bisexual people in on dating show, period. I’d love to be the first. The first bisexual back there. Hi.

Damona  27:34  

All right, you said it here first.

Carlton Morton  27:37  

I see.

Damona  27:38  

All right, just to wrap up for a lot of our listeners who are single and ready to mingle. What did you learn about dating in the pods that you think can be relevant in dating today if you were to give them one or two pieces of advice for how they should move forward?

Carlton Morton  27:51  

Um, I would say honesty will take you everywhere and trust just make sure it’s someone that you can trust. Be honest vulnerable sometimes we shut down because of our experiences in the past and that keeps us away from getting to the future. Oh, trust your heart, your heart all lie to you. And you’re gonna know when it’s the right time to have certain discussions and never be too hard on yourself. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t work out sometimes it’s just timing. So don’t give up.

Damona  28:23  

Well, Carlton, I hope timing lines up for you again because you are a gym and I’ve really enjoyed this conversation with you.

Carlton Morton  28:30  

Thank you Sorry I put on the waterworks. I didn’t realize that it would come out today.

Damona  28:35  

When you’re being real and authentic. You’re

Carlton Morton  28:37  

such an emotional person. Like I’m so sensitive. I’m so like, and people don’t always get to see this. I

Damona  28:44  

thank you so much for your honesty. Thank you for being here. There’s so much to learn from what Carlton said. First, remember the power of vulnerability. Men are told to stay strong not cry not show weakness. Do you see what just happened? When Carlton showed his true self and his true feelings, he drew us in. He wishes he could have done that in his relationship with diamond. But he’s learning to do it now. Which brings me to my second point, forgiveness. To move into your dream relationship. You need to be willing to forgive the past. Even if diamond is still processing what happened. And believe me, a lot happened which might take a long time for her to process. But Carlton has forgiven himself for hurting someone he loved. None of us are perfect. Many of us say hurtful things that come from our own place of pain. forgiving yourself for your past mistakes is the first step to moving forward. My third takeaway is to face your fear. Your Carlton say that if he could do it again, he would not have been so afraid of what people would say in the pods and he would have left more have his true self shine through. as scary as it is to acknowledge something so personal about yourself as a sexual orientation that has often caused you to be excluded in the past. If you are going to bond your life with another person, you have to be willing to face your past fear and be brave enough to open up to that person fully. Fourth, we are constantly growing and evolving. And that means you don’t need to wait for healing to occur or enlightenment to strike to be ready to date again. We learn in motion, so you don’t need to wait to find love. If you are committed to the process of understanding yourself and growing as a human, you can love in your imperfect form and find someone willing to learn and grow with you. Finally, keep the faith in spite of all that Carlton went through he said he would do an experience like love is blind again. And he’s still looking for true love. No matter what you’ve been through before, I hope that Carlton has inspired you to keep the faith the true love is out there for you too. This has been Episode 317 of dates and mates and the first of four dates and mates love lessons. For more of Carlton’s journey. You can follow him on Instagram at Carleton Morton and you can also check out his charity for kids called Camp Carlton and support if you feel called

Get Your Ex Back & Daddy Culture

DO YOU WANT YOUR EX BACK?

Since Damona’s first advice column in the LA times ran with a question about whether or not you should reach out to your ex during the pandemic – we’ve been getting a ton of questions on this topic.

So today we bring in Lee Wilson whose primary platform is all about how to get your ex back. We’ll tell you if you should make a move and how to do it if that’s what you want.

via GIPHY

But first, Damona covers headlines:

DATING DISH (1:28)

The latest stats on COVID dating behaviors

Damona received a new study from the dating app Iris on dating habits in New York at this time. Damona covers a few key findings: men are lowering their standards right now, don’t expect any in-person dates right now, and authenticity is IN.

via GIPHY

What is ‘Daddy Culture’

Following the really concerning Chris D’Elia allegations, the world is finally having a long overdue conversation on ‘Daddy Culture’ and the age of consent. Damona breaks it down and tells you why you should be concerned.

via GIPHY

Divorce is the only option

Kelly Clarkson announced her divorce to Brandon Blackstock. Damona has thoughts on their relationship and why it perhaps wasn’t meant to be.

via GIPHY

Ex 101: The No Contact Rule (11:00)

Damona welcomes Lee Wilson to the show. He’s a relationship expert and dating coach. After being a marriage consultant with two nonprofit organizations for several years, Lee went out on his own and started coaching both men and women on how to get their ex back after a breakup or separation and also on how to improve their relationships to prevent breakups, separation, or divorce.

He always says that your first instincts are almost always the exact wrong thing to do and can push your ex away – so he’s going to help us get clear on whether it’s worth trying to get back with your ex.

They discuss:

  • Should your ex back
  • What NEVER to do if you want them back
  • The no contact rule

via GIPHY

Find more from Lee on Youtube or at myexbackcoach.com

TECHNICALLY DATING (29:40)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • From Jem on IG – how do you deal with flaky people? If people get ghosted should they call the person out to stand up for themselves rather than letting the person think it’s okay to treat people like that.
  • Listener on FB says: I really like this guy but he wont wear a mask anywhere. Should I let him know this really bothers me?

READY TO GO DEEPER IN LOVE?

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What is Patreon?

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Our page is Patreon.com/datesandmates

What will you get if you sign up?

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Sign up at patreon.com/datesandmates for: 

  • an opportunity to work with Damona directly
  • to get quality advice that is tailored to your dating challenges
  • and to become part of a community that will help you find the healthiest, most loving relationships this year

 

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:12  

Hello lovers. Welcome to dates and mates. Since my first advice column in the LA Times ran last month with a question about whether or not you should try to reach out to your ex during the pandemic, I have been getting a ton of questions on this topic. So today, I’m bringing in Lee Wilson, whose primary platform is all about how to get your ex back. And we’ll tell you if you should make a move and how to do it if that’s what you want. In the meantime, I’m also going to get you up to speed on this week’s headlines. We’ll talk about the latest statistics on dating culture during COVID. And what it means for your love life. And what is daddy culture and why you should be concerned. Plus, Kelly Clarkson reveals why divorce was her only option. Then as always, at the end of the show, I’ll answer your questions including, should you stand up to ghosts? And what do you do if the guy you’re dating won’t wear a mask? It’s a metal by pandemic, y’all. Oh, we’re gonna have a lot to talk about on today’s dates and mates. It’s time for the dish,

 

Damona  1:29  

A recent survey from the dating app, Iris came across my desk. You know, I love a good survey. But this is something that is impacting your life right now. They looked at the dating habits of single New Yorkers in the era of COVID. And as you know, New York was hit pretty darn hard by it. So they’re sort of our canary in the coal mine. And they asked them about their comfort level with dating again, in person dates versus versus online virtual dates, Netflix and chill and so much more. Here’s what they found out. males were nearly 25% more likely than females to lower their standards. During quarantine. I’m very curious about what lowering the standards means. Because I find that a lot of people have standards that are not realistic. It’s not even about high standards. It’s just like standards that don’t really exist in the real world. And so maybe this is actually a good thing that people are starting to examine what’s on there must have list and realize that the the internal qualities and the values of that person have a lot more to do with compatibility than how they look in a bikini. And so I’m kind of comforted by that information. But it looks like people aren’t going to be moving offline anytime soon. This survey said in person dates are still a thing of the future. 26% scent of singles aren’t going to risk it and would rather wait until 2021 for their next in person dates. About 14% of people, though, said that they would go out as soon as the quarantine is lifted. And you’ve heard me say on the show before that I think as soon as states open up and things are more free, you’re going to see the dating floodgates open. And I think this survey is capturing attitudes of the last few weeks and months. But it’s amazing how how quickly we forget, and how quickly our attitudes can change. So we’ll see how that pans out. But people are saying that video dating is just not making up for in person connections. And over half of the respondents are no more willing to try video dating now than they were pre COVID. But I read that y’all and you know what I hear. I hear that almost half of the respondents are willing to try video, which I feel is something that was not even in the Zeitgeist, even though I do Talk about it in my future of dating masterclass in March right before the pandemic it, I do think people will be more open to it going forward. We’ll put the link to the entire survey results in the show notes. But what it tells me is that people are more open to making real connections. The question is, will it really last one thing that I’m hoping doesn’t continue is daddy culture. This is basically the the romanticization if that’s even a word of younger women with older men from either side, and looking at the crystal Leah case, if you all haven’t heard crystal Leah who’s an actor and comedian, he is going down y’all for approaching young women and when I say young women, I’m saying young women. I think Chris is like 40 years old, and he has been tweeting and chatting with women that are like 16 1718 not even now he’s been accused by these women of requesting nude photographs from them and sending lewd texts and pulling out his erect penis in front of others. I don’t know why comedians think we all want to see their erect penis out of their pants, but just stick to your jokes, and zip it up, y’all. But what this brings to light is that there actually is this whole culture. And if you go into Twitter, you’ll see there are all these women that are almost wearing it as a badge of honor that they’re able to date men that are old enough to be their fathers, or even older than that. And there’s this sexualization of the barely legal women. And I fully understand that sometimes we idolize someone older and a lot of relationships can fall into sort of a mentor mentee dynamic. But it starts to get really dangerous when you’re talking about people who are not even of legal consent age or are still, like your frontal lobe is still developing, when you’re 16 1718, you will engage in riskier behavior and do things that you don’t necessarily think through because literally, your brain is not fully formed. So if you are someone who thinks it’s appropriate to date, someone of that age, and shockingly, I looked up the age of consent in many states, I thought it was 18 everywhere. It’s not in many places. It’s actually 16. But not only can it be criminal, but actually, the question is, is it really ethical? Or are you being a predator in pursuing someone that is that much younger than you or in that specific time of life, so I didn’t have any luck. For crystal Leah anyway, but now that this has come to light, I’m really going to be focusing on daddy culture and these age gap relationships and helping people to ask what is really appropriate for them. Kelly Clarkson and her husband Brandon Blackstock, have called it quits. And this has been an interesting romance to follow. They actually originally met, like in 2004. But they officially started dating in 2011. And things moved really quickly. They announced their engagement in 2012. And then they got married less than a year later, and then a few months later than they had a child together. And then they had another child two years later. So they’ve really been on this on this fast track to love. And that’s what I really want to caution you about. A lot of times people tell me Oh, things are going great because it’s moving so quickly, and I don’t want to deal with wasting time with the wrong person. And I’m just so sure that I’m with by with my person now. So I’m just going to go full speed ahead. And a lot of times when you burn out when you burn that fast you burn out. And that seems to be what happened. They had irreconcilable differences, essentially. And she’s not really commenting on what exactly went wrong. And honestly, that’s her business. I’m not going to get in it. But what I want you to know is that it’s important to take your time and to make sure that especially if you’re in a situation like Kelly, where she’s got a lot of finances, she’s got a big career that she’s managing. And you want to make sure if you’re engaging in a relationship with someone that it’s it’s going to be additive to your life and not be something that drains your energy or that takes away from who you are and what you want to achieve. So I wish Kelly lots of luck. In this next chapter of her life, and I hope that she and her kids and Brandon are all going to be okay. That is the dish before you move on. I just want to ask your opinion on my latest Washington Post article. It’s asking our dating preferences. Actually an example of racial bias if you exclude people of a certain race from your dating pool. It was published online last Thursday was in the print issue of the magazine on Sunday. And I have to admit, I was a little bit nervous leading up to the release because I knew it would make some people uncomfortable. I have always dated race open, not colorblind, but race open. But I know for a lot of people we’ve hidden behind this idea that race can be a dating preference. So we talked about it a couple weeks ago, but I’d love for you to read the article. I’ll link to it in the show notes. I’d love to know what you really think. And I appreciate all of you who are willing to engage with me on this question. And I encourage you to continue the conversation. So if you have thoughts, share them with me on Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter at damona Hoffman. Or you can always join the Patreon Friends with Benefits Program, and we can really get down into it. That’s my private Facebook group for all of the super fans of dates and mates who need a little extra love and want to support the show that’s at patreon.com slash dates and mates. Anyways, there’s so much more coming. I’m going to tell you how to get your ex back along with Lee Wilson. And then I’ll answer your questions on ghosting and dating during COVID right after this.

 

Welcome back. I am here with Lee Wilson. He’s a relationship expert and dating coach. He’s been a marriage consultant with to nonprofit organizations for many years, and then he went out on his own and start coaching for both men and women on how to get their ex back after a breakup or separation, and also on how to improve their relationships to prevent breakups, separation or divorce. Please help me welcome Lee Wilson and let’s give them some big smooches. Thank you. pushes back. I love it when that happens. Thank you so much. I’m excited to have you here. Because I’ve been getting a lot of questions about exes. And I feel like because we’re in quarantine right now. I mean, some of you states aren’t still in quarantine, but I live in California and it’s still pretty locked down here. And we are feeling like the isolation. I think it makes us nostalgic for the past. It’s so funny. Actually, my daughter was asking me about my exes. And I’m like, I hadn’t thought about them in years. And then I was like, Huh, I wonder what he’s been up to you. Like this Google search, and I’m like, What am I doing? Is this corn? Is that what’s going on?

 

Lee Wilson  12:06  

Well, most of the people that I talked to, it’s fresher than that. You know, it’s a it’s an x from two months ago, or even very fresh breakup week or two. Most the time, when it’s fresh when it’s the same day or the same week. your instincts tell you that you have to do something right away, like this person’s falling off a cliff, and you’ve got to act quickly, or you’ll lose them forever. That’s the kind of response and reaction most people have, what do I need to do because I need to do it right away time is moving by quickly and I need to do something or I’m going to lose him or lose her. And so usually, my job is to convince them to take a breath. You don’t have to get them back today. You don’t have to get them back this week or this month to get them back. So Matter of fact, time is really on your side. If you don’t apply all that pressure you feel like you should apply Because that’s actually what will push them further away.

 

Damona  13:03  

Yeah, absence does make the heart grow fonder. I wonder though, is there a conversation around? Should you even be getting your ex back?

 

Lee Wilson  13:15  

I have that quite a bit, I usually will ask questions about the relationship. And there have been quite a few times where I’ve said, you really should stay away from this person. There was a woman who was about my mother’s age, and she was telling me about this man she had been dating, and some of the awful things he did like, and at one point, I just said, I’m just being honest, I don’t want to help you get this guy back. I want to help you escape, find somebody who treats you right, you know, just awful. And I said, Why do you want this guy back knowing the answer, but it was the human part of me asking why? Because the reason she wanted him back is because when he broke up with her, she felt loss. And so sometimes I remember one client, I think helped him get a girlfriend because I do help people attract love. And he had gotten a girlfriend, things are going pretty well. And then he had a coach. He called me and he said, you know, though? I don’t I don’t. I’m kind of thinking I might date around a little bit. He was actually asking me how to kind of slow it down with her. He calls me he booked a call about a week later, she broken up with him. He was crying. He was desperate. She’s his soulmate now. Like what changed from a week ago? A week ago, you were you were wanting to slow things down and maybe break up with her. But what changed is, he lost control.

 

Damona  14:37  

Yeah, rejection happened.

 

Lee Wilson  14:38  

Yeah, she’s wanting to move. She’s moving away from him. He has that sense of loss. And he wants to get back what he thought he has far as control and also it lowers your feeling attractiveness. You feel like you’re not attractive enough to keep this person and so you want some self confidence back. You want some of that self image back. So there’s a lot more Going on besides just I love this person, they broke up with me that you’re feeling. Most people do love the other person, but a lot of it is loss. It’s that sense of loss that makes you so desperate. You want to be validated. You want this other person to say you’re worthy.

 

Damona  15:13  

So how do you heal from that, like, you’ve been through that loss? You’ve been through that rejection, you’ve been through that loss of control, you hit the nail on the head with that, Lee? And then and then what like, do you recommend that they have a period of distance from their former partner?

 

Lee Wilson  15:34  

If they want the person back? Then what I tell people is you have to give them the breakup. And what that will mean is is that you don’t make an effort to get them back, at least not right away. And a lot of that is being it’s doing a couple of things. First of all, it’s being respectful because if they said they want to break up and you’re just not giving them the breakup, it appears kind of like you’re pitching a fit Like a child in a toy store, and the parents have said no, and the child just keeps pestering,

 

Damona  16:05  

I’ve been there. Yeah.

 

Lee Wilson  16:09  

It’s desperation. And it causes people to beg. And it’s the exact opposite of what you should be doing because it’s not attractive. And the reason we’re begging it goes back to that sense of loss of control. Because what happens if you’re face to face with a dictator, and this person says, your car’s now mine, your house is now mine, and you’re going to live in a dungeon for the rest of your days, and you have no power, all you can do is what? beg for mercy, right? And that’s what happens when your ex breaks up with you. They have all the power and so you feel like all you can do is beg and plead and try to make a miracle happen to get them back. Whereas if you have the control yourself, you would not be pushing and begging and pleading with them. And it only makes matters worse, because it shows that them that you’re not strong enough to stay away. And they also will think, if this person, is this hurt by this breakup, then I can get them back whenever I want if I wanted to, because usually they’re not 100% sure, usually it’s 90% 80%. And you can work on that. But if you convince them that you were just so miserable without them, that all they would have to do is snap their fingers and get you back, then it frees them up to not have to worry about that if they do start missing you. Like a lot of times, people who are quiet after a breakup and just you know, I respect your decision. I think we’re great together. But you know, I can’t my gonna try to change you.

 

Damona  17:42  

I can’t make you love me if you don’t

 

Lee Wilson  17:46  

write a song about that.

 

Lee Wilson  17:47  

I think that’d be a hit.

 

Lee Wilson  17:51  

But if if you just back off and give them the breakup, and what that means is your absence that’s what they’re saying. They don’t want you in their life anymore. They may, they may sanitize it by saying, Let’s still be friends or you know stuff like,

 

Damona  18:05  

Oh, I hate that. I mean, can we talk about that for a secondly, that let’s still be friends. Like, I will say, I am friends with most of my exes. But it didn’t happen right away. And I always like had a period of healing where I was like, Don’t let’s not talk right now. But I hate that like, we could still be friends. No, you can’t like my heart is broken, is it? So there’s like a no contact rule that you have your clients do for a period of time.

 

Lee Wilson  18:34  

Right? And, by the way, when your now ex pitches, the friendship thing. First of all, the important thing is you don’t act like a friend. Now, some coaches will have a real cold approach to this. And so this other coach said, if they pitch friendship, say no. I do not accept your offer. Only contact me if you want a relationship. What If they’re 99% sure they want to get back with you, but they’re not 100% sure, then they’re gonna remember you saying, don’t you contact me unless you want the relationship back. So now they kind of feel trapped. If I call her if I call him

 

Damona  19:12  

just to explore Yeah, then it’s, I have to have a marriage proposal ready to go.

 

Lee Wilson  19:18  

Right. Right. And you basically you give away your opportunity to retract them because you want to have it set up where when you’re not there anymore, you’re not texting, you’re not seeing them, and they miss you. And they think boy sure would be nice to interact to text to hear his voice or hear her voice. And they reach out. Your number one, they feel like they can that you’re approachable because you weren’t jerk about it. And they don’t feel like they have to have all their ducks in a row yet.

 

Damona  19:46  

I’m very interested in what you’re saying. You pique my interest with the retraction element. Walk us through that. What What do you need to do as someone that is on on the receiving end of the breakup, and let’s say you’ve given it time, you’ve had the No Contact rule, and then you’re like, I’m ready to retract this person. And I definitely think they’ve made a bad decision in letting me go. And this is the person for me. They’ve made a mistake, but we’re meant to be we’re destined, how can I retract them? Li,

 

Lee Wilson  20:19  

part of the retraction is that you’re quiet. Because that’s the ultimate mystery. When you answer the question. You’ve relieved the mystery. When the question lingers, and they don’t have any answers. That’s when there’s mystery and they want the answer. So the most powerful thing is actually the question, not the answer. And you want to be a question mark, because they’re thinking, is he not going to come after me? Or she’s not going to try to get me back. And so whereas when they broke up with you, even if they’re a good person, and they do care about you, they still see themselves as more attractive because it’s a little bit of an ego boost when you break up with somebody. Yeah, you’re the decider directing them. Yeah. You have the power, this person starts to feel like okay, maybe I’m not up here, maybe it’s more like this. Maybe we’re more even. And that’s kind of the start of the dominoes falling. Then it’s curiosity like, What? What’s this person doing? Is there somebody else? You know, here it is night time I’m looking at my phone, they’re not texting me, what are they doing? And this person can kind of become preoccupied with you. And so the first part of retracting them is doing nothing. It’s just literally literally staying away from them, which takes a lot of strength to do. It’s writs. It’s much more difficult than it sounds because most people I speak with fail.

 

Damona  21:36  

Can I just add though, having been through this experience myself and also coached clients through it, it is so much more fulfilling. If you cannot be focusing on that person and not be chasing that person. It drains your energy so quickly, right? And it’s like, it’s almost like Like you said, it’s a way to reconnect claim your power, you have the power of not contacting them and even like, not stalking them on social media, that seems to me like it’s just a recipe for disaster. What’s your feeling on that?

 

Lee Wilson  22:13  

Yeah, it’s counterproductive. If you have anxiety at all, it’s really bad usually. And it’s, most of the time it’s going to make you at least tempt you to do the things you should not do. If you want to retract this person, and I hear a lot of excuses, because I will tell people stay away and they’re wanting magic words, you know, that they’re wanting me to be this guru in the forest. And they get to me and they’re like, what do I need to do? And so they expect me to tell them something, it’s gonna be really difficult like these, this incredible thing to say, are this crazy pattern of events? And so when I say yeah, there’s no contact. They’re wanting it to be, I think more majestic and glittery. realize is that that is hard. It’s like if I told you to walk a mile across glass, you know, and you get your ex back. They’d be like, Alright, where’s the glass? Well, this is the hard thing that I’m telling you. It’s not walking over glass, but it’s probably equally equally as hard and it’s to stay away. And I remember this one particular gentleman who was trying to get his ex back and told him stay away. And four days later, I got an email from him. And he said, just want you to know, I reached out to her. Of course, I’m just like, you know, I’m not just saying this. Sounds good.

 

Damona  23:34  

You know, I’ve seen program works great when you do the exact opposite of what I recommend. Yeah.

 

Lee Wilson  23:40  

I’ve seen thousands of cases. You know, I haven’t this wasn’t just like, yeah, I had this girlfriend. One time, she broke up with me and I didn’t contact her and got her back. I’m basing this on thousands of cases. You know, this is not just advice from your aunt. And so he told me that he said that, I just thought it’d be a good idea to keep the lines of community Be open. And so he had a call booked about two weeks after that. And we spoke. And of course, he told me the disaster that unfolded after he did that. And you know, I just kind of said to him, you know, I told you not to communicate, but he hadn’t he had reasoned with himself and wanted to contact are so bad that He justified and found a way. And most people will do that they will look for Excuses, excuses to contact this person. Because if here’s what here’s why it feels like if you could just talk to them, you could talk to the old version of them. And YouTube would get back together. Because what people have difficulty realizing is they’ve changed and you’re not talking to the same person. So the same rules don’t apply. So,

 

Damona  24:54  

so when you’re in that situation, and let’s say let’s say you have a client That is fully committed and they’ve they’ve kept the no contact. Is there a certain point where you’re like, Okay, you’ve, you’ve come to a different place and you should make contact? Or is it always just about waiting enough time where that person gets to ever? Like, do you plant a seed and like your friends here? How do you do it?

 

Lee Wilson  25:23  

No, no, I would not suggest planting a seed in a frenzy. Oh, man, I have horror stories about that. Here’s why your friends will overestimate their ability to help. They think they think the same thing you do. If they could just have a little talk with them. Well, they’ll win them back for you. And they’re so so wrong. Because what they’ll do is they’ll go to this person. And they’ll they’ll say, this is true story. This actually happened in high school. So he goes this guy and he’s like, man, she loves you so much. All she does is cry. I mean, just made the sob story thinking, thinking that this I would feel so sorry for her they take her back. But the lesson which I didn’t know at the time because I was 16 stupid, was pitting someone is not attraction. They’re very different. And so he ended up making the situation much worse. I learned the lesson right away when my friends asked how I’m doing, I’m doing great. Don’t even tell them if you’re, you know, miserable.

 

Damona  26:21  

Exactly. Should you be dating? Should you like we hear about the rebound relationship? Should you just go in and put yourself back out there?

 

Lee Wilson  26:34  

It’s a double edged sword. And there here’s, here’s what I tell people. I know you’re hurting right now. Let’s talk in two and a half months, you’re not going to do anything. As far as this relationship goes two and a half months. That’s the plan. If they contact you, that changes because that’s when you have the opportunity to retract them. But at two and a half months. Let’s decide then if you want to reach out this person

 

Damona  26:59  

is there a certain amount of time that you recommend before you start dating someone else.

 

Lee Wilson  27:04  

There’s there’s some good solid research on this from psychology organization to research relationships and research, the way that our brain chemicals work. And usually the minimal is three months that I that I recommend. For a lot of people, it’s longer than that it’s like six. And I do understand that there’s some validity to the idea that if you date around that your ex might hear about that and become insanely jealous and wants you back. However, 20 years and thousands of cases I’ve seen that blow up in people’s faces a lot. Here’s why. Usually the person who does the dumping, and then finds out you’re already dating after two weeks, thinks, well, I must not have meant that much to them anyway, that’s one thing or they think you’re trying to get their attention with it. And then it makes you look like you’re trying to get them back and you’re not really doing as well as they thought you were. So there’s a lot of ways that it can blow up in your face. But then as far as you personally If you are in a serious relationship, you’re really not ready as quickly as you think you are most of the time because you want, you don’t want to just hop from one relationship to another. You know, you don’t, you don’t want to just be in a relationship for the sake of being in a relationship, it’s very easy to get into a rebound, that will move too fast and sabotage itself. So I usually tell people to take some time and just be alone for a little bit and reflect evaluate on the relationship you just lost. How do you feel about that? What was good about the relationship? And a lot of times, if people are just given the breakup, you would be amazed. I get emails still to this day, every day of people who will say, I really didn’t think they would. But I did what you said and now they’re contacting me, and they want to get back together.

 

Damona  28:52  

Yeah, it’s amazing how simple it can be to get what you want. If you know the steps and you get out of your own way. So thank you for giving everyone the roadmap here and the secret sauce. I know you have a lot more on your YouTube channel. Thank you so much for being here, Lee.

 

Lee Wilson  29:09  

I appreciate it very much enjoyed it.

 

Damona  29:11  

Thank you. Now you know how to get your ex back. But in a moment, I’m going to tell you so much more and answer your questions on dating during COVID and ghosting stick around. We’re back and I’m here and ready to answer all your dating and relationship questions. This is technically dating.

 

Damona  29:39  

jambe on Instagram asked me, How do you deal with flaky people? If people get ghosted? Should they call the person out to stand up for themselves rather than letting the person think that it’s okay to treat people like that? Jim, I love your chutzpah. I love that you are willing to stand up for yourself the question Is what are you gonna get out of it? If you are going to call somebody out and read them the riot act about their crappy behavior, which is ultimately the right thing to do. And if I was their Mama, I would tell them why they need to behave in a better way. But are you doing it because you’re trying to get back at them because you’re trying to teach them a lesson, because you’re looking for some sort of feedback or an apology. Because if it’s if it’s that reason that you’re doing it, you are chasing a feeling that may not come and ultimately potentially doing more harm to yourself and good people. Hate is gonna hate people gonna flake. So if you can just deliver it in a way that’s not emotionally charged, and let them know we had a plan to meet this date. Sorry, sorry, didn’t happen or if they’re ghosting you in conversation. Like you made a connection, and then all of a sudden they’re not responding back, please don’t do the three texts like, hey, Did I say something wrong? Are you there because that just puts you in a weak position like I was talking about with, with Lee a moment ago. And I want you to be strong. So this is what I do. I do think and release, you thank that person for showing you who they were up front. And then you release them to whatever is their karma next. And that’s it, then you wipe your hands of it. And you can move on with a clean conscience and find somebody who’s going to treat you appropriately treat you like a person and make a meaningful connection.

 

Our next question today is from a listener on Facebook, who says I really like this guy, but he won’t wear a mask anywhere. Should I let him know that this really bothers me. Okay, now this is kind of a different situation because you’re in a relationship or you’re in a situation, ship your data This guy, this isn’t a ghosting situation where the person just dismissed you. This is somebody that you care about and you want to build a relationship with. And if it is something that really bothers you, then absolutely, you need to speak up. Now this can’t be a, you should wear a mask. Haven’t you seen the stats? Look at all of the people that have COVID, do you want to be one of these people? It can’t be that kind of a situation because people are just going to push back against that kind of a judgment, right? But what you can do is you can say I really care about you, and I want you to be healthy, and I want to be able to be healthy and feel comfortable with you. But it makes me feel uncomfortable when you don’t wear a mask. And that way it’s not it’s not judgement of them. I mean, even though it is but you’re not expressing judgment of them, you’re expressing how their actions are impacting you. And if that person is actually person, if that person really wants to invest in a relationship with you, then they will say, Okay, I don’t really want to do it. But for you, I will Or how about I just start wearing it to the grocery store, maybe they’ll start bargaining and then you’ll move into the next phase of this conversation, but you’ve at least expressed your dissatisfaction. And is it a deal breaker? I’ve been hearing this a lot people have been been messaging messaging me like is it a deal breaker if this person won’t wear a mask, maybe if you’re in a situation where maybe you’re caring for children or the elderly or you are compromised and your immune system and this person will not respect your your boundaries and your needs in a relationship, then guess what we got another thank and release. And there you have it, but I really hope that you can use this time to Express your needs in a way that’s really constructive and to move into a deeper phase of the relationship. That’s it for today’s show. This is number 316 of baits and mates. This is our last full episode of season seven, but I have some really exciting minisodes coming up in the next month all through July I’ll be doing a series of master classes centered around meditation and visualization. And trust me These exercises are really good for my one on one clients, and I know there’ll be good for you too. So don’t forget to check out Lee Wilson. He’s at my ex back coach calm and if you want to continue the journey with me, you can join our patreon@patreon.com slash dates and mates. As always, we will put all the links from today’s show in the recap. You can find that recap at dates and maids calm along with producer Leo’s super cute gifts. You don’t want to miss it. Honestly, there’s so much more updates inmates, if you’re just listening on on Apple or Stitcher or Spotify, there’s a whole other world waiting for you at dates and mates. And by the way, if you are listening on any of those platforms, I would love to have you review the show. let other people know why you love dates and mates, and you can help me heal more hearts in season eight of dates and mates, so stay subscribed to the show. We’ll have more content for you all summer. And let’s stay in touch. Let’s stay in touch for the summer. I’m at damona Hoffman on all of the socials and don’t forget to DM me your questions because we’re gonna be back with season eight and just a moment’s notice. And I’m gonna need your questions so that I can help you in love. Until next week, I wish you good health and happy dating