Self Care & Sensuality

ARE YOU BEING LOVED THE RIGHT WAY?

The foundation for every great relationship is understanding. Understanding how to love and how to be loved.

On today’s episode of the Dates & Mates podcast, my guest Allana Pratt – intimacy coach and host of the “Intimate Conversations” Podcast – shows us the upside to the isolation we are all experiencing right now.

Now is the time for self-discovery. And by self-discovery, we mean truly understanding how you would like your partner to show you love.

More on that later, first Damona covers headlines! 

DATING DISH (3:01)

Are 50 Cent and Jamira Haines #RelationshipGoals?

Here’s a curveball: 50 Cent is making vision boards with his girlfriend. Apparently, for 30 Days they sent each other pictures of things that they wanted and then discussed. Damona explains exactly why you should be doing this with your boo.

via GIPHY

A scary social campaign sweeping North Africa

Sofia Taloni, a trans influencer from Morocco, is encouraging her followers to catfish and out gay men. Not only is this extremely unethical, it’s dangerous. Damona explains and breaks down what it means for us.

Damona’s NPR Relationship Tips

In case you missed it, Damona was on “It’s Been A Minute with Sam Sanders” on NPR. She gives you all the behind the scenes info that was cut from the final episode.

HOW DO YOU LIKE TO BE LOVED? (16:00)

We’re not just talking love languages here. Today, we show you how to get into the nitty-gritty details of your love language.

via GIPHY

 

For Allana, physical touch and cuddling are a big way to demonstrate affection. BUT it wasn’t until her boyfriend one day held her face in a very specific way did she truly understand that she felt loved.

Not only does Allana give us a game plan for achieving some much-needed self-understanding, we also discuss

  • Self Care tips for isolated singles
  • Relationship maintenance for those in close quarters with their partners
  • And how to keep it sexy when you can’t quarantine with your boo

This episode has such deep and meaningful lessons for everyone. Trust me, Allana does not disappoint.

If you’re as amazed by Allana as we are, you should check out all her resources at AllanaPratt.com!

TECHNICALLY DATING (34:50)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • Email from Chatrice: I feel like guys are only on the apps because of “BoreRona” (boredom caused by corona). I know this is true because my FaceTime requests are being breezed over and the slight mention of a post-Rona date sends them into a frenzy. Should I just hit pause on my dating goals and go with the flow or do I cut these bored guys off and keep it moving?
  • J from IG: How do I deal with abandonment issues in a relationship?

 

 

Best of all, it’s super affordable – Dates & Mates listeners like you get 10% off your first month with discount code DATESANDMATES 

 

So why not get started today? We all need someone to talk to right now. Go to BetterHelp.com/datesandmates so you can fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with a counselor you’ll love.

 

 

 

 

What is Patreon?

Patreon is a platform that allows you to support creators like me to keep making helpful content that you want to hear and allow you to get amazing listener benefits by participating

Our page is Patreon.com/datesandmates

What will you get if you sign up?

There are three different tiers. One for our loyal listeners who want to connect with others and keep this show going strong for another 7 seasons.

Sign up at patreon.com/datesandmates for: 

  • an opportunity to work with Damona directly
  • to get quality advice that is tailored to your dating challenges
  • and to become part of a community that will help you find the healthiest, most loving relationships this year

 

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:12  

Hello lovers, welcome to Dates & Mates!

 

Damona  0:21  

one of the biggest issues in dating and relationships is intimacy. Whether you’re trying to find love virtually right now and you’re not getting enough of it, or you’re quarantine with your loved one, and maybe you’re getting too much of it. We are all struggling right now, as always, but especially in this crazy COVID world. intimacy and sex are a part of healthy relationships. But we’re not always clear on how to build and maintain intimacy in a healthy way.

 

Unknown Speaker  0:51  

So today,

 

Damona  0:52  

we are once and for all going to get clear on the intimacy timeline with one of the top experts in this field. Dr. Emily Morse of the sex with Emily podcast. I’ve listened to her show for years and now I’m delighted to welcome her finally to dates and mates. But before you get all hot and bothered, we have headlines including will dating be forever changed by COVID-19? And could jayda and Will’s relationship be in trouble plus the safest places to get your free guide on during the pandemic shutdown? And then in technically dating Emily and I will answer your questions like what to do if you and your partner have different sexual needs and how to deal with insecurities in the bedroom. All that and more on today’s very hot dates and maids This one is definitely not one to listen to in the room with the kiddos. Explicit warning, I’m saying it now it’s going to be hot but you’re going to want to hear everything that Emily and I talked about. You ready For the dates in mates,

 

Unknown Speaker  2:02  

let’s dish these dating dish.

 

Damona  2:07  

According to time dating will be permanently changed by COVID-19. A lot of people have been asking my opinion on this from NPR, you may have heard me do a couple of segments in the last few weeks. You may have read in my new column in the LA Times about this. There are a lot of people speculating about what this will mean for intimacy. So let me just take a snapshot of where I think we are right now. And I can make a guess about where I think it will go. And I’ll also tell you what some of the other experts that time interviewed said, and you can make your own determination about what you think will happen when quarantine opens up and people are able to return to some sense of normalcy. So now we’re in this place where just speaking of dating specifically, people are unable to meet face to face. So I’m hearing a couple of different things I’m hearing there are a lot of people that are really excited by the ability to make new connections without all that pressure. So many of my listeners have been timid about online dating. Well, you know, I’ve always been very bullish about it. But part of the reason is that, that awkwardness of moving offline and into the real world so it’s allowed a lot of new people to step into the space and play in the dating space and the chat space in the flirtation space and see if this could be a good avenue for them to date. So I think dating apps will continue to be on the rise. They’ve already all said that they are having a huge increase in new users and new chats, but we don’t we don’t know what that will look like when there are other avenues available for dating but I do believe it will consistently be up. Now people are having to do virtual dates, and be really clever with quarantine dates and what I love about This is that it’s causing people to be a little more mindful to slow down and also to be more creative and really get to know one another people have been obsessed we talked about love is blind on the show a few weeks ago, people have been obsessed with this idea of finding love without the confusion, I guess of what someone looks like and, and the visual seeing them face to face. But we all know like not every couple made it on love is blind. I’m not saying any spoilers or anything, but not every couple makes it. And so there’s this almost fantasy playing out where people are thinking that this is going to be the answer to unlock all of these problems in dating, that dating timelines are going to slow which you’ve heard me say on the show before and that people are going to become more mindful of who they’re having sex with the thought we talked about the other Netflix show too hot to handle recently. As well, what I think is really going to happen is that it’s, it’s we’re going to return to how it was before but we are going to have new filters in place. Like being able to do that video chat and having it not be weird. I that’s the biggest thing that I think will come away from COVID-19. With as far as dating is concerned, a lot of things that we once thought were weird, are no longer going to be weird video chat dating is not going to be weird. calling someone on the phone who you’ve never met is no longer going to be weird. It’s going to be normal again, like it once was. So I think this is a really great time, but we’re going to go through a little bit of an ebb and flow. They interviewed one of my favorite experts for this time magazine article, Helen Fisher, and she is a she’s a social scientist. She works at the Kinsey Institute. She’s studied the brain on love, and she says that thirst and hunger are not going to do And therefore, neither are the feelings of love and attachment that allow you to pass your DNA on to the next generation. So that’s what we have to remember. Like, I can get all intellectual about dating and dating plans and processes. But when it comes down to it, that drive for procreation and that drive for connection is the strongest thing in the world. That is, that is what drives everything, because we are wired to keep the human race going. And that is not going away just because of COVID-19. So there’s a lot of talk of people abstaining from sex, there was this government. I think it was a New York City slogan about you are your own safest sex partner right now, which is true and which has always been true, but people aren’t just going to forget about having sex or having connection because we had COVID-19. I think what we’re going to see if I can predict for a moment is that once the restrictions are lifted, There are going to be a couple of weird moments, like a first dance at prom, where people are like, I don’t want to be the first one to get out there and hit the dance floor like I don’t want to look weird or be the first one to make a fool of myself. So people are a little shy to enter the dance floor. And then a couple of brave people jump in, and everybody’s like, oh, there, you look cool, that looks fine. I want to do that too. And then everybody is on the dance floor, and then all of a sudden, the dance floor is gonna get really crowded. And people are going to realize that there is a risk right now in dating and making connections with people in holding hands kissing, touching other things that we’ll talk about later in the show. And I think there’s going to be a little bit of a balancing and a retraction where people are going to slow down again, and that’s where I hope we will land in this sweet spot of love and relationships. So check out this article. I’ll put it in the show notes. There was also a mention of really interesting experiment that they’re doing at you Pan. That’s sort of a love Love is blind inspired experiment where they’re trying to help people fall in love over email. During quarantine. I can’t wait to see what the results of that study are. I’m sure we will cover it on dates and mates but it is making me believe in love again. You know one couple that is love goals for life. Everybody has known of the romance between Jada Pinkett Smith and Will Smith. And we all look to them. We see red Table Talk and we see them out together and we’re like, they’re the perfect couple. They’ve got it all. They’ve got it all. But on read Table Talk recently jayda revealed that being in quarantine has made her realize that she and will don’t really know each other anymore. They’ve grown apart to some extent and they’ve been together over 20 years. And there is this lull in the relationship where you start to almost take your partner for granted and then you look at them and you think oh How could you take your partner for granted? This is Will Smith or how could you take jayda Pinkett Smith they’re both so amazing in their own right. But I love in the show how real jayda makes the issues that she’s going through and how grounded they are to make you realize that even though we idealize their relationship, and she is saying she was even idealizing, who her partner was, we can learn so much by hearing her honest take on what’s going on. And she’s saying that in this time, it’s also an opportunity. If you’re in a relationship right now, it’s an opportunity to get to know your partner again, on a deeper level. I’ve been doing like 20 questions and playing all these fun games with my husband, and really getting to see a different side of him. I don’t feel like it’s quite at the level of what Jayla said like I don’t know him at all. But I do feel like I have learned things that maybe if we hadn’t had that time to really slow down and really bond together that I may not have taken the time to stop and ask some of these questions that I’ve had answered. So this is a great reminder for us to not be complacent in marriage or in relationships and to always try to find that spark and that ability to be curious. You know, I’m always talking about that with dating, right. Be curious about your partner. And I think that is the silver lining on all of this, not just for jayda and will but for us as well.

 

Turns out, a lot of people may not be satisfied in their relationships right now because according to adult friend finder, they are seeing a big surge in new users. And this is a casual dating and camping site. So actually all of the so called cheating sites are seeing a big surge and That’s a lot of people trying to escape the reality like it’s intense in there. It’s intense when you are 24 seven with somebody that you, you maybe you really have strong feelings for them or maybe you have been growing apart for a while. And this intensity is just the thing to drive the wedge between you and where you’re seeking, seeking fulfillment from other sources. But here’s the thing on Adult friend finder, they also are helping people move into like virtual sec situations. And they had to launch a new platform called Virgie. I didn’t make it that name, y’all. It’s a platform that provides a safe environment for people looking to explore orgies during COVID-19. So some of these people may be in relationships. Some may be single, but a lot of these common video chat sites that We use like zoom, did you know this, like you cannot have relations on zoom, and not that they’re peeking in on everybody’s video chats, but there is an element of them monitoring what’s happening. And so these virtual sex parties could no longer happen on zoom, and they had to find another avenue for allowing the people that come to their site to be able to do the things that they want to do. So this is just to remind you that there’s something out there for everyone and whatever your need is right now, whether it’s an emotional or an intimate need or simply a sexual need. There’s no shame in the game y’all. You can find what you’re looking for. Online. The Google machine has made anything that you want possible and animation to you at the click of a button. So I encourage you to go out there and find what you’re looking for speaking of finding what you’re looking for getting your needs met, and let’s face it speaking of sex, we have a very hot guest for you today. As I mentioned at the top of the show, one of my inspirations Dr. Emily Morse will be joining me in just a moment, she’s going to tell us everything we need to know about building intimacy from first time sex and consent, all the way to reigniting the passion in a long term relationship. So if you’ve ever asked after what date Should I sleep with him? Does this sex mean the same thing to her as it means to me? am I even doing this right? Then this is the episode for you don’t go anywhere. Dr. Emily Morris is coming up in just

 

Unknown Speaker  13:49  

a moment.

 

Unknown Speaker  13:57  

We are back and I am here

 

Damona  13:59  

with the One and only Dr. Emily Morris. She has a PhD of human sexuality and she is the powerhouse behind one of my favorite podcasts sex with Emily. Please, please, please put your lips together give big smooches to Dr. Emily Morris. Hello.

 

Unknown Speaker  14:19  

Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here.

 

Damona  14:22  

I am so glad to have you here. People have questions and like, I can only take them so far. But you can take them all the way. Emily, wave ready to go. And I will just talk first about your mission with sex with Emily. You talk about make wanting to make sex. Easy to talk about and yeah, so it’s so listable and like topics that a lot of people are sort of

 

Unknown Speaker  14:45  

sensitive about

 

Damona  14:47  

you make it just you just bring down the walls and make it so simple.

 

Unknown Speaker  14:51  

Exactly. I mean, that’s my main mission is because most of us are not comfortable talking about sex because we don’t have any great models for it. Our parents weren’t Talking about it most likely our friends weren’t talking about it. We have a lot of shame around it. We think love is good girls don’t talk about sex and and you know, then what is it? What What message Am I sending if I talk about sex, so there’s just, there’s just a way that I want people to feel more, you know,

 

Damona  15:18  

take away the shame and the and the stigma around it and just make it comfortable. Because really, when we’re sexually healthy, we’re healthy overall, it contributes to a healthy lifestyle overall. So I just try to get people to understand that that’s, it’s something that we need to do to have an overall healthy life get comfortable talking about sex, and then that actually improves our sex life. Absolutely. And so many of our listeners realize that it’s an important part of a relationship and many of them are single right now and wishing for that right relationship. So I want to talk a little bit about building intimacy through the different phases. Let’s begin at the beginning with the people that are just starting like let’s say COVID aside, quarantine aside, they are just beginning new relationships and beginning to be intimate one.

 

Unknown Speaker  16:04  

So this there are actually like for some say it’s five, there’s about four stages of intimacy that we talked about in relationships. And the first one is the infatuation phase. This is the honeymoon phase, the phase that we all crave. And we want to we always, are always trying to get back to this phase. And this is when we first meet someone and we just think, Wow, this person is so perfect for me. everything lines up. It’s like, like, we’re so alike. It’s sort of the infatuation stage and the kind of the diffusion stage. And it’s sort of like and there’s also a powerful like, neurochemical thing going on in our brains where we feel like a kind of altered state of consciousness going on. And it’s sort of like they look at the brainwave patterns of, of people like falling in love, and they’re like, God, it looks like either they’re in love or they do some kind of drugs because it’s very similar, right? It’s a very similar pairing, and there’s a good feeling of euphoria and connection. So that’s like the first stage that we just were like, wow, we are so fused. Everything is just this person is my everything.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:07  

Yeah.

 

Damona  17:08  

So then we move past that because I’ve had like, they’re my listeners are tired of me saying this so much, but there’s no such thing as love at first sight. Like there’s lust at first sight.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:18  

I say that too. I’m like you not love it is lost and that is totally fine. Lust happens, but you are not in love.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:27  

Okay, so how, how can we move on to love what’s the next stage they might Okay,

 

Unknown Speaker  17:32  

the next stage is the conflict and the power struggle.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:36  

This is when you have your first fight.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:39  

This is when you think, oh, like how do I differentiate myself from my partner? Like, maybe we’re not so much alike. You know, we struggle to exert like our individuality in a relationship. And there’s like conflict and you’re like, how can there be conflict in paradise? I didn’t realize, but that is the second stage. And that’s kind of where You know, people kind of last through this stage because some do. But the third stage, if you want me to skip to that that’s adjustment we call the adjustment and consolidation. And that’s where couples end up. This is where couples end the relationship. This is where divorce happens. This is where drugs addictions happen, people start drinking more. And a lot of people don’t get through these stages, it becomes a lot uglier. In this stage. We think Oh, wow. Like I remember the first stage. We’re like, Oh, my God, we are so perfect together. Everything’s amazing. And this is the stage where we’re like, there’s nothing we are nothing alike. And what am I going to do with each other?

 

Damona  18:34  

I’m sure a lot of people are feeling that right now.

 

Unknown Speaker  18:36  

Exactly, exactly. If this is the stage, we crave to get back to stage one. But I think a lot of people are in this stage right now. They might never have seen themselves going into this stage but because maybe we’re quarantined with somebody, and there’s so much strife and there’s we don’t have the conflict resolution skills to get us past the stages is is really where people are, are stuck right? And so I urge people to, you know, to kind of take a beat and realize that we’ve never been in this place before. And there’s like a, there’s an anxiety level that’s like in the ether in the universe right now we’re sort of all experiencing it from every angle, at work and at home and just the consciousness of everyone is sort of a heightened state of unknown anxiety, confusion. And then you put on top of that the person that has to be your most comfort in your joy. Now they’re giving you some strife, it feels like so I just, I mean, I recommend people reaching out and using their resources. I’m a huge fan of therapy. And I think that right now, there’s a lot of therapists I’d say the majority of them are offering online therapy and online coaching right now. And just know that it’s okay. You don’t have to solve it on your own because it’s this kind of language and dialogue that you have with your partner that’s gotten you here. So you’re going to need someone else you’re going to need some more tools from the outside to help you and it’s totally okay. Just like we hire a coach for work, a business coach, a trainer to get in shape a nutritionist, you might need one for your relationship right now. Absolutely. I totally believe in that if you’re single, like, same thing, we agree on the right therapy right now. Right?

 

Damona  20:14  

Right. So what’s on the other side of that Emily? solve the conflicts. Right.

 

Unknown Speaker  20:18  

Okay. So, um, the conflict, right? And, and when you get to this is the stage where this is the maturation stage where you mature, you have learned to differentiate, and this is true intimacy, like you’ve worked through your deepest wounds, you have really figured out, you know, who you are, you’ve gone to the dark places of intimacy as you shared it with your partner. And this is the stage where you say, Wow, we are nothing alike. And that’s beautiful. We are nothing alike. And that’s why we work because we support each other. We come together with these beautiful skills. And we’ve, we’ve, we’ve matured together, we’ve grown it and again, this doesn’t mean that you’ve been together 25 years. This could happen quickly. I mean, this can happen over a year this year. You know, it typically won’t happen in less than a year. But it depends how much work you’ve done individually coming together as well. The comments have you grown? How much have you looked at your past? wounds your childhood, your past relationships? have you dealt with abuse and trauma and anger? And, you know, there’s always work to do, but how much and how much are you both willing to work? Like, sometimes there’s one person who, who’s so into growth mindset and growing together and there’s someone’s like, no, we’re fine. I everything I’ve done is fine. I need to work and grow. I’m really good here. And that’s, that’s tough. Yeah,

 

Unknown Speaker  21:34  

one person wants to grow and another person does not.

 

Damona  21:37  

Yeah, absolutely. You both have to be on the same page. And it’s also I would, I would add into the mix, you have to also be able to trust one another. And that’s, and I know that’s an element of all the work that you do, like if you are going to be intimate with someone whether it’s emotionally intimate or sexually intimate. There’s a level of trust you have to build when you say

 

Unknown Speaker  21:57  

absolutely, I mean, that’s the other thing is that you’ve built trust. See, I just kind of ran through those like quickly, but it’s like you. Yes, I mean trust is. Trust is something that you when you have it you have in your relationship and you don’t really think about it because it’s there. But once trust is broken in a relationship, it can be really difficult to heal, especially on your own. And the couples who like I hear from couples all the time, who say or it’s one person who says, well, but partner cheated on me and it’s been rough ever since. But I should be over it already. Or then the or the person who did the cheating says to me, why isn’t my partner over? And it’s like, well, what work have you done? Just saying I’m sorry, doesn’t gonna do it, or just because years or has passed, those wounds are still there. So you have to sort of rebuild, but you have to do that together. And again, I believe that can best be done in therapy. And it’s very hard to rebuild trust on your own. But yeah, trust is huge. That’s a big part of intimacy is couples like, like having trust, having integrity in the relationship. You know, broke broke through. It’s messy. They broken things down. They’ve rebuilt them. And they’ve they’ve stayed together and, and only like they say like only 5% of couples get to that that last stage of intimacy that really get there and really do it. Yeah. I mean,

 

Unknown Speaker  23:11  

I’m hoping I’m their girl.

 

Damona  23:14  

Living the dream, living the dream, but like, I want to go back for the listeners that are still single. When you’re building trust with someone new, that’s really, really hard. And a lot of times I get the question about when to be intimate with someone when to have sex. And then how do you even talk like, should you talk about it before you have sex? What’s the a DA, being? Sexy?

 

Unknown Speaker  23:40  

It’s a great question. I mean, I do believe that. That in order for us to be in a sexually healthy relationship with to be if we’re going to be having sex with someone, we have to be comfortable talking about it. The problem is where we’re at today in 2020s, that most people no matter what their age are, their their their backgrounds, their everything. They will not come through with it. We don’t have models. We don’t have people have done it. But I do believe and I do know this, the couples who are the healthiest and have the best sex lives are able to talk about it. And so I think before you talk about your before you have sex somewhat with someone how great to just say like, how important is sex to you in the relationship? You know, what kind of things are you into? I actually you could say I, it’s something that I’ve been on a journey to figuring out or getting comfortable talking about sex. I don’t have a lot of experience with talking about sex, but I know that it’s important. So would you be willing to be a partner that could talk about it with me, we could talk about what we like and what we’re into and what we don’t like or if we’ve never done this a we can figure it out together. But I know that sex is a really important part of a relationship. And I think, yeah, I mean, I think the sooner we talk about it, the better especially after you start having sex with someone. I don’t believe in this. Let’s wait a few months while it’s still really great. Cuz that’s when you should talk about it. Maybe just talk about how great it is or the things that you really liked about it. But it’s fun. Because we’re in relationships, and we’ll talk about like, we go to a movie, and we’ll talk about how much we liked the movie will have gone to dinner and we’ll say like, wasn’t a delicious meal. Well, yeah. didn’t love the appetizers. But I really enjoyed the, the main course. Well, we I don’t know if I’d go back there again. But sex we just like, we have the sex, and then it’s over. And then we don’t ever talk about it. And then no one knows

 

Unknown Speaker  25:20  

how it went.

 

Unknown Speaker  25:23  

Down.

 

Unknown Speaker  25:25  

Like, were we in a different, like, read a different thing here. We read different movies where we had a different,

 

Damona  25:30  

but a lot of times people are in different movies when they’re there.

 

Unknown Speaker  25:33  

They

 

Unknown Speaker  25:35  

thought that’s great. And the other is like, this is terrible. I don’t want to do this again. We’re sex in

 

Unknown Speaker  25:39  

my life. Exactly. So how great to be able to talk about it and a lot of my show. It’s funny. People hear the name sex with me. They think Oh, God, I don’t know if I’m ready for that. And I have to tell you that most of what I talk about is getting people comfortable communicating about it. I always say communication is a lubrication. And the more that we talk about taxi, we get comfortable with sex the much better stuff We’re going to have but it’s just getting to that place of, of breaking down the walls together and saying, like, I know this is awkward, but I really think it’s I know that it’s going to help us. So yeah, kind of talking about what your greatest memories are together, like, give her if it’s new thing, like, let’s talk about what did you like about last night and you don’t have to get into what you didn’t like yet because I have a whole process for that. But maybe to start off by complimenting your parents, and God, I really enjoyed the way you kissed my neck. When you kissed my neck, I felt these things run through my body that I haven’t felt in forever. And just affirming. So they know because maybe there was other things that you didn’t like, the let’s lead with the positive. I think we all like to hear the things that you do well, so that’s kind of like for early stage of relationships. I’ve other practices for the stuff we don’t like but I think just really enforcing reinforcing things that went well is harmful.

 

Damona  26:52  

I want to get into how you talk about this stuff if you don’t like and you have some questions actually in the next segment about that.

 

Unknown Speaker  26:57  

But consent comes up A lot

 

Damona  27:00  

for my listeners that are dating and just beginning to have sex. You know, Emily, I’m just going to ask you, I had a conversation off air with another with a male dating coach. I know. And we were talking about consent, and he was talking about like sexy ways that guys can ask for consent. And then he said, I don’t believe in asking for consent for a kiss. And I was like, Well, now we’re like, separating the process of intimacy. I want to get your take on that.

 

Unknown Speaker  27:30  

Well, I believe that there’s a really I think that in this day and age, there’s that Yeah, ask for consent for case i think i think there’s ways that you could do it. That’s really consensual. That’s really like, consensually, it’s positive. Again, consensual comes off as consensual, not offensive and kind of sexy. So you could just say I

 

Unknown Speaker  27:52  

What about just like, I’d really like to kiss you right now. Yeah, I can’t stop thinking about kissing you. Would you Be open i mean i’m really thinking about I can’t stop thinking about kissing you Would that be okay? How would you feel about that? And like looking at someone in their eyes and saying like,

 

Unknown Speaker  28:10  

like that’s the way it’s not like

 

Unknown Speaker  28:11  

I would you mind if I kissed you right now like it’s all it’s all energy yeah I think saying like you know I would really like to kiss you right now how how does that feel to you it’s just a really honest Looking in their eyes you feel seen and maybe you don’t want to but I’ve had guys say that to me. And even though it was really sweet I’m like, oh God, thank you for letting me know that. I’m not feeling that right now but I so I let’s keep talking I’ll let you know if I if that if my position on that changes. You know,

 

Unknown Speaker  28:42  

I’m glad that you can be so honest about that moment. I think a lot of women feel bad saying no to a case or even saying no to sex.

 

Unknown Speaker  28:54  

You’re such a good point here. Yeah,

 

Damona  28:56  

I hate that. We we don’t even you know, we we’re kind of Meaning that we are supposed to be polite, like, how can we get that kind of

 

Unknown Speaker  29:04  

confidence? Right to Mona like, this is the thing is that people is that. So I’ve talked about this a lot on my show. My show as well is that so many women we just have like we just say yes, because it’s so much easier than saying no, like I always I did a speech once. I was like, how many of you have just had sex? Because it was easier than saying now like, how many of you like given that blow job because you’re like,

 

Unknown Speaker  29:27  

raising my hand.

 

Unknown Speaker  29:29  

Same thing, and it’s like, why is it so hard? And I think it’s because we don’t we’re pleasers. We don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. We don’t want to come off as prude. We don’t want to come off as we don’t want to deal with conflict. And so it’s like, and I love that we’re having this conversation because I think it’s like first off for some women. They’re like, Oh, I can say no, like literally they don’t know they can say no. Well, the person already came to my room. I’ve already invited him to my home or we’re already on a date and they bought me a nice dinner and donate. Oh, oh them. You don’t know what else You don’t owe anybody anything but your real truth and your real honesty said in the most, in the kindest way possible in the most like, me doesn’t have to be kind of someone’s being aggressive. But I would, I would, I’ve learned that there’s nuances that to it, and I think of how to say no. And so. So usually what’s happened perhaps, historically, is that and this is sort of a somatic practice. As a medic therapy practice, I’m a trained somatic sex therapist as well. And what I mean by somatic is, is it being in your body, so embodied and really paying attention to when someone comes towards you, or someone’s touching you? How does it make you feel? And so what happens is so So an example would be, let’s say, someone and we probably had this experience where perhaps they just escalated a little bit too quickly. Like maybe the kiss happened. Like, I’ll give you the example of the kiss I just use so maybe someone tried to kiss me. I just I’ve had guys say, like, should we just kiss right now and get over it? And I’m like, no. No, not right now. But just because I say no doesn’t mean that maybe we truly could revisit this later. Or maybe Okay, so no better example that’s maybe more relatable to people is say you start making out with someone, and it’s getting hot and heavy, and then they start to put their hand on your pants. And it’s not like you wouldn’t want that. Eventually, maybe in an hour, maybe next time I see you, maybe in a month from now. But sometimes the whole it shuts out. We just wanted to what we really wanted that moment was just keep making out. We loved making out with this person. And so so so my experience be getting in touch and feeling like, Oh, I felt me get tense right now I’m not ready for that. And then being able to have the word say, put your hand on their, you know, on their hand and say, I’m not feeling that right now. But I’m really enjoying making out with you. So let’s keep doing that. Or I need to take a beat for a moment. Can we just pause on that for a second? I’m so loved loving getting to know you right now. So that signals to them I’m not saying gay. Go home, get in your car leave my house. I’m saying this is escalating beyond where I want it to go right now. And I’m sort of enjoying the arousal process of getting to know you the kissing. And I think we will often either just think we got to shut it down or we got to keep going. And we don’t realize that there’s a nuance to the process of arousal because most men if we’re talking about heterosexual relationships, for example, men escalate quicker than women. Men get aroused and turned on they have more of a responsive desire they respond to things happening in the moment or women or women are more responsive like we need things to build where men are spontaneous, they get aroused a lot quicker. Women are slow cookers and men are frying pan. So literally in that same moment of making out there ready to go to third base to us little tournament. We’re like no, I love getting to know your lips. So sad. Yeah,

 

Unknown Speaker  32:53  

yeah. And I love how you keep

 

Damona  32:54  

reiterating what it is that you like and even when you are giving a credit direction or a reset of the energy. It’s still with a reminder that you like where you are what

 

Unknown Speaker  33:08  

if you just

 

Unknown Speaker  33:10  

don’t you’re not feeling it at all and you need to send a very Okay,

 

Unknown Speaker  33:13  

great distinction so I think if you’re not feeling it you just stop and you say and this happened to me very recently.

 

Unknown Speaker  33:20  

Tell us about it.

 

Unknown Speaker  33:21  

Oh god you guys I’m telling you this is this work is not it’s not like I’m a pro at it I just in the moment sometimes it’s still always a little bit uncomfortable because you feel bad and all those things come up. I’m just telling you ways to do it that are you know, that are a little more that feel good to everybody involved. So I had to say I we were going to make no for round and I thought I’m not feeling this guy anymore. It’s just it. I had already had some hesitations. And I just stopped and I looked him I said, you know, what, can we slow down for a second? And I said, I I gotta tell you, I so love spending time with you. But but but in this moment, right now, I’m feeling like we got to just kind of take a pause. And can we just get up and just kind of go back to my living room. Just kind of chat and then we move down he was it okay. Okay, I said Listen, I’ve just so I have a lot of things happening in my life right now. And this is all true. And I just said I I’m not feeling like I’m in a place to be really physical with you right now but I’ve so enjoyed our time and let’s just do need a glass of water and let’s talk and I was just, I was working through in the moment as well because I’ve learned that if I am not fully on board and my whole body’s out of hell, yes, I can it’s a violation to who I am as a woman as myself. I can’t keep going so I had to say it but I’m saying can be clunky and I feel bad but then I’m he got it though it is it okay. Like I understand you. Let’s talk. I wasn’t saying get the hell out. I wasn’t I was like, let me explain my process. So

 

Unknown Speaker  34:41  

yeah, the other thing that you did

 

Damona  34:42  

that’s really great is you really stayed in the moment like I’m always telling my listeners not to get ahead of themselves, like you weren’t, like, This guy has to get out right now because I don’t know where this is going. You just are like right now this doesn’t feel right to me. And so I’m just going to react to this moment. Exactly, yeah. And that’s a lot of pressure off yourself, right? Because when you’re when you start thinking about, like, what happened before what happened after I mean, that’s another thing like people that have had sex before that realize they don’t want to have sex with someone again, it’s kind of like you were saying earlier, there’s this feeling like, well, if we’ve already had sex, we might as well just have sex again. Now, right, you always have a chance to choose right?

 

Unknown Speaker  35:21  

Every you have a chance to choose in every moment and with every relationship and with every encounter, to be to, to to change your mind. And when we’re present. So what we’re talking about is when we go into an experience like that, where we’re like, I gotta get out, we go into fight or flight. And we go into the future in the past. We don’t make great decisions for ourselves. So to say, we’ll say like, go back to right now in this moment, I am not feeling it. We have totally we have agency over that and you don’t owe anybody anything. You don’t owe anybody another kiss, another sex another date, like really don’t and I think that is women. This is just like we’re breaking, you know, so many years of this stigma and this feeling that women just have to and we owe it to men, and we just don’t We don’t, and we could take care of ourselves and it’s our bodies, our choices, and all those things are really real. And I think the more that we do that in every situation, we’re going to be just so much, so much better set up for our relationship that we can teach our daughters or nieces or the women in our life. How to do that as well.

 

Unknown Speaker  36:17  

Yeah, paradigm. It is. Thank you for reiterating that. Okay, I want to go back, you said that you had some tips in case you you need to give someone some

 

Unknown Speaker  36:32  

constructive criticism. Yes. How do we do that?

 

Unknown Speaker  36:36  

Okay, I love the compliment sandwich. So, do you want to give me an example of something you might want to correct? It can be from your life damona or anywhere else? Like what would be something that you might want to give feedback or that you’ve heard from your listeners? Oh, I don’t like the way.

 

Damona  36:50  

Is there anything? Actually I did get a DM when I was asking for questions about a woman who said she has trouble climaxing during oral sex

 

Unknown Speaker  37:01  

with boyfriend. All right. So that is such a common a common thing. So I, so well that’s, that’s interesting because so what she might be saying is,

 

Unknown Speaker  37:12  

Okay, here we go. So she’d say babe, sweetie, okay, here’s my first step

 

Unknown Speaker  37:17  

outside the bedroom. Number one, you do not have the conversations about what you’d like to change, or giving feedback to your partner in the bedroom after a sex act. Because we’re in a heightened state of arousal. Maybe we’ve just we’re connected where I like the bedrooms. I like that for sleeping and for sex. But when we’re gonna have a conversation about our sex life, do it when you are in an environment where you’re kind of chilling, you keep it light, maybe you’ve just had a drink, you’re at dinner, you’re going for a walk. I love walking and having conversations on a road trip because these conversations can be so awkward and uncomfortable at first. You don’t have to make eye contact if you’re driving your car like okay, babe, I think we should talk about our sex like that. That concept

 

Unknown Speaker  38:01  

is the environment for any conflict IV.

 

Unknown Speaker  38:04  

any conflict, get in the car time to walk the dog with you again. So then so then you say okay, so I realized that I want to talk to you about I’ve been thinking about our sex life. This is the compliment sandwich. And, and you start with something you love. I think that it’s been lately the way you’ve been. The way it’s been a lot slower lately. And I love the way you’ve been like making out and that thing you did with your tongue and my on my neck or my ear felt so good. Like, I feel like we’ve really been, you know, connecting lately in that way. And I realized that when you go down on me it is so it’s like my favorite thing. It’s so hot. I get really aroused. And lately I haven’t been able to orgasm. I was thinking that perhaps if we took a little bit more time with it, and I could have a few more. You know, sometimes I feel guilty because I feel like I’m taking too much time. And I feel like if we He just kind of settle in, I knew that you were kind of into it as well that I would definitely have the most explosive orgasms, and then the last piece of the bread would be, and I know that when I’m really turned on and having orgasms, it just makes me want to have sex every day. He

 

Unknown Speaker  39:15  

want and that’s what he wants. He never wants

 

Unknown Speaker  39:18  

  1. So I mean, that was a lot. You know, that was. That was I was also answering the A common question that women have about why can I orgasm during oral sex? And typically, it’s because women are, well, we can sum up the compliment sandwich first and I’ll get into oral like, but typically you want to be very positive. You want to stay curious. You don’t want to be accusatory or blame I’ve told you so many times to go down. I mean more, why doesn’t this happen? Because the second you do that they’re just out the door. So really, it’s just here’s what I love. Here’s why this would be great in a suggestion and then ending with like, the reason why it’s great for both of you is my best tip.

 

Damona  39:53  

I love that. I love the compliment sandwich. I have so many questions Emily. I would love to just keep on talking You feel like questions, but so many people have submitted their questions. So I’m gonna roll on into our next segment. Do you have questions and Emily and I have answers. So now it’s time for your favorite segment. And I just want to remind everybody, these are going to be a little bit more R rated than usual. But Emily, I’m sure these are no biggie for you. You got it? Yeah, no questions like this all the time. Our first one comes to us from Katie from Canada. She says, My husband needs a few days between sex sessions, or he can’t get hard. Is this normal? And just to give you a little bit more background, because I followed up with her She said she’s 31 He’s 37. She’s never noticed the refractory time before, but since the quarantine she’s noticed that if she tries to initiate again that day or days following it doesn’t lead anywhere or he’s not able to and that feels like a long time.

 

Unknown Speaker  41:00  

Okay, got it? That’s that’s a great question. And I love that she gave me his age because when people email me their questions, it’s really important to people’s age and to know where they’re at So, so, if you’re 37 if he’s 37 so here’s what I think the refractory time for men meaning the time it takes for them to be able to have sex again after they ejaculate. You know, when you’re younger men can kind of keep going. And when they get a little bit older, it can be challenging, but 37 is still young, typically, men start to see challenges around erections. And around in their 40s is when there’s a drop in testosterone. And so what I would think what my first hit from this is that what the first thing is, it could be medical, it could be testosterone drop, it could be if he’s taking any medications, the first thing to look at is as you change anything at all, is he drinking more? Is he on a medication, there’s a lot of medications that actually impact our ability to get to have an erection to have an orgasm. So that’s what we got to look at a lot anything medical, and then we take away all of that. Listen We are in a time of tremendous stress and anxiety, which already before quarantine is the number one killer of our sex drive. When we are stressed, and we are anxious, especially men, I find this in men more than women, when men are concerned about money, their job, something happening, their ability to be in the masculine and take care of the family like that really has an impact on their desire. And so I don’t know that you should be concerned. But I think that maybe I would tell Katie to go a little bit deeper. And just like how I said, to have the conversation about sex in a neutral environment, the same thing goes for this kind of thing. Just say, I’ve been thinking about you. And I know you said it’s gonna take a few days is it you know, tell me about how you feel? Is there anything we could do? You’re doing in a way to help that like, I can’t believe it, you’re not getting turned on because a lot of times what women we do is we think oh, he’s not attracted to me anymore. Something’s wrong with me. Or, you know, and just being like, supportive and saying like, well, let’s take a look at it. Let’s take a look at like your medication, or do you think it could be something stressful Something I could do to help you more like relax right now because a couple days is a long time, like in the sense of like, I’m sure he could still get turned on but I feel like there he might just have other things on his mind right now is what is what I’m thinking. Yeah,

 

Damona  43:14  

I’ve been hearing that couples in quarantine together are actually having more sex right now. So I wonder also if she’s been like, does this

 

Unknown Speaker  43:23  

I don’t know that you’re hearing everything Okay, so I’m hearing that there’s some couples who are like, Oh my god, it’s so great. We’re both home now. I’m not traveling as much for work and we’re just having this time that we’ve always craved. other couples are like, I’m going to there’s nothing sexy about living in this one bedroom apartment and I’ll be doing and staring each other and that is not hot. Because something about you becoming one of candles eroticism when you don’t have the surprise and the mystery in the spotlight at all that is just washed away with this quarantine. So I actually, I don’t want to put any more pressure on everyone. Like I think it’s different across the board. But but maybe Yeah, maybe Katie’s feeling like she wants it more because maybe he’s been away a lot now. Homework. And maybe he’s trying to figure out how to work at home. And how do I make sense of this all. And he’s just really stressed and is more distracted right now. And so maybe creating a space for them and their relationship where they can separate from work and creating a time where they’re scheduling sex, which is one of my best tips for couples always and right now to say, I know that we’re having sex these three days this week, so you’re not one of you isn’t feeling like you’re always rejecting their partner, or someone wants it more than the other. But when you can plan it, and you know, like sex is happening eight o’clock on Saturday, you can kind of start to look forward to it. You can get ready, you can shower, you can shave what you can like, talk about the things you want to do. And then that becomes your activity that you’re both going to share and it works better for for both usually.

 

Damona  44:43  

Yeah, and what else do we have to do right now? Exactly right. I’m all about the date night so I had to make a date night appointment with my husband like after the kids go to bed. Saturday night, your mind. Now he knows this. He knows what’s coming. Okay. We talked about women and oral sex but from the other side This question comes to us from Ashley on Instagram. She says, My boyfriend can’t climax from a blow job trying to deal with my ego thinking it’s just me any tips?

 

Unknown Speaker  45:17  

Great question, Ashley. I hear this all the time. First off, it is not you I wish I could just talk to the collective conscious of women and be like most of the things that are happening with your boyfriend’s your partner’s penis has nothing to do with you. It’s very common that men cannot orgasm from blowjob and and so it could be a lot of reasons it could be the way he masturbates. It could be the way he’s holding his penis. It could be because he’s watching a lot of porn. And it is harder for him to masturbate with with a mouse there is. Now also I want to say yeah, maybe there’s something else that he wants sexually. And you’re allowed to say to him God, I really love performing oral on you. I’d love to know your best tips of how I can make it the best blow job ever. But I wouldn’t ask him in the moment, I would say I’m going to or I would say I want to start asking your next time when you show me what you love because I want to be your best ever. You could do that as well, Ashley but there are I’m hearing this more and more lately that there’s just a lot of men who just aren’t orgasming from blowjobs and I just I’ve always heard it but something lately and I have a hunch it has to do with porn. Because I believe that men are watching so much that’s a whole nother show. We could do more and watching But yeah, I do believe that I’m not like anti porn by any means I get that it serves its purpose. But when we have one way of holding ourselves and one way of generating pleasing ourselves, it can be challenging to bring anyone else into the mix even if she’s like a you know, expert porn star, whatever like doesn’t for a living, it can still be challenging. So best take your ego out of it and just get some healthy communication with your partner.

 

Unknown Speaker  46:53  

That’s great advice, Emily.

 

Damona  46:55  

Okay, this one is another Instagram question from Shannon. She says, what does it mean when your new boyfriend goes limp when you get on top of them? He says he’s had this problem in his last relationships, too. He can function in other positions, but he climaxes quickly.

 

Unknown Speaker  47:15  

Okay, Shannon, this is a great question too. It’s like, I wish we knew her age, but I’m telling you, it sounds like she might be a little bit. I don’t know, younger. I don’t know why I have this sense. But I feel that men have penis challenges, trust him that he has that trust that it’s happened in his past relationship.

 

Unknown Speaker  47:33  

And

 

Unknown Speaker  47:36  

when you get on top of him,

 

Unknown Speaker  47:40  

I mean, okay, so most of the challenges that men face with their penis have to do with anxiety and has to do with things that have happened in a situation that’s happened in the past. And all men want to do is perform. They want to be great lovers. They want to stay at heart and they want to keep going. But sometimes if things have happened in the past, it even only takes one time. We’re like, Oh, no, I’m going to get soft and this isn’t, you know, this, this, this keeps happening over and over again. And then they are they’re reinforcing it and their behavior. It’s a what it means is I think again, you have to kind of understand what kind of like what positions, he functions in other positions, but he climaxes quickly does he climax. So what I’m hearing then is that in every position, he climax quickly, but then when you get on top, he gets soft. So it’s just it’s almost like you’re having, these are challenges that you’re having. And

 

Unknown Speaker  48:33  

yeah, and that’s her favorite position. She was saying that’s the that’s the position that she can come in most easily. But he can’t perform in that can perform that

 

Unknown Speaker  48:44  

way. Well, here’s the other thing I want to say is what I believe that if he gets limp, he can probably he can get harder again. So what we have to do when our partners get limp is not freaked out and not ended just because they’re like, Oh my god, I can’t believe it. You could be like it’s okay baby and then you could go down And again, you can start to touch him, you can use some lube, you can like, get him hard again, because just because he got soft, doesn’t mean that it can’t come back and again in a moment, but it’s the both of you that collective, he’s going, I didn’t say that often you’re like, he’s not hard, and then it becomes a thing, but just be like, it’s okay, babe. And then you could kind of work around, make out again, do some other things. And I guarantee you, he’s going to get hard again. I mean, I’ll come back. And that’s a training thing, and then you get back on top of them. And then if it happens, again, you go back down again. And I think once you both realize that he can get hard again, it’s gonna be able to come back. This is what I’ve experienced with with people, it’s just a matter of retraining, what what means sex is over what means you know what I mean? So I think baby does have experience with that position. And he really think the reason why he’s getting soft is because I think he probably really wants to be there and deliver and he just can’t. So it’s kind of retraining. It’s almost like creating new neural pathways in the brain. That’s what it’s about.

 

Damona  49:56  

Knowing Yes, well, and it sounds like this relationship is knew, but I often hear from people in long term relationships that they want to try new things or they get to this Roadblock, and they don’t really know how to take things in a different direction. What do you say to that?

 

Unknown Speaker  50:15  

Oh, it’s it’s a great question because that is so common that couples are like, what what do we do? What where do we go? We’ve got

 

Damona  50:19  

our friend Emily.

 

Unknown Speaker  50:21  

Exactly. I was gonna say, Come on, girl. It’s okay. But the first thing is, is communicating about it and saying what? I think we can both agree that we want to be the greatest lovers to each other ever. And I love all these things about relationship but there’s I feel like there’s so much more that we don’t even know we’ve been together so long would you can we can we make this our thing right now? Can we figure out what would be super hot for both of us? And a great place to start is you each talk about maybe you will share the most memorable time you’ve had sex like what is the top three moments for you? Like it could be like something that happened or position or glance or a look? And then just by you explaining that And then your partner coming back to you and saying his times, there’s so much detail. There’s so much information just in those moments like, like, the most memorable time could be, you know, when you guys were on vacation, and oftentimes on vacation because there’s no distractions, and maybe you were in a hotel room, and then all of a sudden, like someone else walked in and saw you. And then you’re like, Okay, well, there was no distractions, the window was open, and then someone else walked in. So there was like, the element of surprise, or maybe voyeurism. Or maybe it was it was going really slow. And he was slowly it was the way that he slowly addressed you. Or maybe you had a blindfold on. I mean, there’s intelligence in these in these moments. So I think once we find out these are the things that that worked, and why you like them, and then your partner would share the same things and you can say, Okay, well, let’s do more of that. So that’s a great place to start. Another thing is just to get smart together and a lot of couples Listen, I’ve found over the years I’ve been doing this for 15 years. The podcasts a lot of couples listen together to my show. And they’re like, Oh, well Emily says this and, you know, use me like, I don’t care if people blame me and they’re like, well, like you can stop and be like, what do you think about us trying watching porn together or buying some sex toys together? That is mostly what we’re missing. It’s not that we don’t love our partner, but we’re missing novelty. We’re missing something new and different. So it’s like toys, getting ideas, research, reading a book together, listening to my show, just finding new ways to connect. You know, it could just be even outside the bedroom, like our same bedroom over day over day can get boring. Everything does after a while,

 

Damona  52:36  

especially sex. Thank you for those tips. I’ll be sure to pass them on to my friend. This was awesome. Thank you so much for joining me Emily. I’m so glad to have you on dates and maybe

 

Unknown Speaker  52:47  

you for having me. I’m so honored. And

 

Damona  52:52  

y’all you got to get listening to the sex with Emily podcast or check her out on Sirius XM stars channel 109. She’s on every day. You can find her on your favorite podcast platform. And hey, like she said, you can use the podcast as a jumping off point for your next sex talk. Thanks so much for being here.

 

Unknown Speaker  53:11  

Thank you for having me.

 

Damona  53:13  

We have made it through Episode 308 of dates and mates. I actually did an interview on Emily’s podcast too, and I’ll put a link in the show notes or you can join Patreon, where I’m adding the cliffsnotes versions of all of my media interviews and podcasts that I’ve appeared on. I’ll bullet out everything you need to know so you can follow along and soak up the most important info. But that’s not everything you would get from being in my patreon Friends with Benefits Program. I also have a step by step video training on how to start online dating today. Plus in a few days on Wednesday, the sixth of May, I’ll be dropping a new video training on how to tell if someone is good match for you on Tinder. Just using Facial analysis techniques work. Yes, watch the mind of some of our listeners being blown as they experience the brilliance of a live facial analysis by Susan. I bet, y’all Honestly, this is like a game changer info. It’s all going down in the Patreon. You can get all of these resources for you starting at just five bucks a month@patreon.com, slash dates and mates. I’d love to have you join the community. In the meantime, please, let’s let’s connect. I’m on all the socials at damona Hoffman. And I love hearing from you all all of these questions that we’ve been getting are so rich and layered. And I know that there are a lot of you nodding your head to these questions going, Oh, that’s a problem for me too. And if you’re thinking that then I want to hear what your question is, because I guarantee you it’s going to help somebody else who is listening to the show. Don’t forget to share, share what you’ve learned, share this episode and Please join me again next week all my subscribers get the episodes the minute that they post until next week.

 

Unknown Speaker  55:06  

I wish you comfortable face masks and happy dating

Intimacy & New Dating Norms

A DEFINITIVE TIMELINE FOR ALL THE SEXY THINGS

Almost every week, Dates & Mates Podcast listeners and clients ask the same question on intimacy: when should we go all the way?

Enter one of the top experts in dating and sex: Dr. Emily Morse of the Sex with Emily Podcast!! She joins Damona on this week’s episode to get clear ONCE AND FOR ALL on the intimacy timeline.

More on that later, first Damona covers headlines!

 

DATING DISH (3:01)

Will dating be forever changed by COVID-19?

Pandemic shutdowns have thrown a curve-ball at dating and relationships. What are the repercussions to this? To name a few: anxiety over a ticking biological clock, a change in the intimacy timeline, and better dating for introverts. It’s not all bad. Damona breaks it down.

Is Will and Jada’s relationship in trouble?

On a recent episode of Red Table Talk, Jada Pinkett Smith reveals that she doesn’t really even know Will Smith anymore. What does this mean for their relationship?

The safest places to get your freak on during the pandemic shutdown

You may have heard that Zoom is monitoring closely to shut down virtual sex. Bummer right? Well if you’re into it, Adult Friend Finder has released the very first virtual orgy platform: Virgy. Damona has thoughts.

 

ARE YOU READY TO GO ALL THE WAY? (16:00)

One of the biggest issues in dating and relationships is intimacy.  Whether you are trying to find love virtually right now and you’re not getting enough of it, or you’re quarantined with your loved one and you’re getting too much of it, everyone’s kind of struggling. 

As always, but especially In this crazy COVID world, intimacy and sex are part of healthy relationships. But we’re not always clear on how to build and maintain intimacy in a healthy way.

So today, we get clear once and for all on the “intimacy timeline” with one of the top experts in the field: Dr. Emily Morse of the Sex with Emily Podcast.

We’ve listened to her show for years and now we’re delighted to welcome her to Dates & Mates. We talk:

  • The Four Stages of Intimacy
    • The Infatuation Phases and “Honeymoon Period”
    • Conflict and the power struggle
    • True Intimacy and Unconditional Support
  • Why there’s no such thing as “Love At First Sight”
  • When to take some time to reevaluate what the next step is
  • Therapy For Intimacy?
  • The timeline depends on how much you grow as a person independently
  • Only 5% of couples get to the final stage of unconditional support
  • And so much more!

If you want more Emily, check out her podcast and other content at SexWithEmily.Com

TECHNICALLY DATING (34:50)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • Tweet from Katie: My husband needs a few days between sex sessions or he can’t get hard. Is this normal? She’s 31, he’s 37. She says she’s never noticed the refractory time before but with the quarantine, I’ve noticed that if I try to initiate again that day or days following it doesn’t lead anywhere and he’s not able to. Should I be concerned? A couple of days seems like quite a long time.
  • Ashlee from Twitter: My boyfriend can’t climax from a BJ. Trying to deal with my ego thinking it’s just me. Tips?
  • IG: What does it mean when your new boyfriend goes limp when you get on top of him? He says he had this problem in his last relationship too. He can function in other positions but he climaxes quickly.

 

 

Best of all, it’s super affordable – Dates & Mates listeners like you get 10% off your first month with discount code DATESANDMATES 

 

So why not get started today? We all need someone to talk to right now. Go to BetterHelp.com/datesandmates so you can fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with a counselor you’ll love.

 

 

 

 

What is Patreon?

Patreon is a platform that allows you to support creators like me to keep making helpful content that you want to hear and allow you to get amazing listener benefits by participating

Our page is Patreon.com/datesandmates

What will you get if you sign up?

There are three different tiers. One for our loyal listeners who want to connect with others and keep this show going strong for another 7 seasons.

Sign up at patreon.com/datesandmates for: 

  • an opportunity to work with Damona directly
  • to get quality advice that is tailored to your dating challenges
  • and to become part of a community that will help you find the healthiest, most loving relationships this year

 

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:12  

Hello lovers, welcome to Dates & Mates!

 

Damona  0:21  

one of the biggest issues in dating and relationships is intimacy. Whether you’re trying to find love virtually right now and you’re not getting enough of it, or you’re quarantine with your loved one, and maybe you’re getting too much of it. We are all struggling right now, as always, but especially in this crazy COVID world. intimacy and sex are a part of healthy relationships. But we’re not always clear on how to build and maintain intimacy in a healthy way.

 

Unknown Speaker  0:51  

So today,

 

Damona  0:52  

we are once and for all going to get clear on the intimacy timeline with one of the top experts in this field. Dr. Emily Morse of the sex with Emily podcast. I’ve listened to her show for years and now I’m delighted to welcome her finally to dates and mates. But before you get all hot and bothered, we have headlines including will dating be forever changed by COVID-19? And could jayda and Will’s relationship be in trouble plus the safest places to get your free guide on during the pandemic shutdown? And then in technically dating Emily and I will answer your questions like what to do if you and your partner have different sexual needs and how to deal with insecurities in the bedroom. All that and more on today’s very hot dates and maids This one is definitely not one to listen to in the room with the kiddos. Explicit warning, I’m saying it now it’s going to be hot but you’re going to want to hear everything that Emily and I talked about. You ready For the dates in mates,

 

Unknown Speaker  2:02  

let’s dish these dating dish.

 

Damona  2:07  

According to time dating will be permanently changed by COVID-19. A lot of people have been asking my opinion on this from NPR, you may have heard me do a couple of segments in the last few weeks. You may have read in my new column in the LA Times about this. There are a lot of people speculating about what this will mean for intimacy. So let me just take a snapshot of where I think we are right now. And I can make a guess about where I think it will go. And I’ll also tell you what some of the other experts that time interviewed said, and you can make your own determination about what you think will happen when quarantine opens up and people are able to return to some sense of normalcy. So now we’re in this place where just speaking of dating specifically, people are unable to meet face to face. So I’m hearing a couple of different things I’m hearing there are a lot of people that are really excited by the ability to make new connections without all that pressure. So many of my listeners have been timid about online dating. Well, you know, I’ve always been very bullish about it. But part of the reason is that, that awkwardness of moving offline and into the real world so it’s allowed a lot of new people to step into the space and play in the dating space and the chat space in the flirtation space and see if this could be a good avenue for them to date. So I think dating apps will continue to be on the rise. They’ve already all said that they are having a huge increase in new users and new chats, but we don’t we don’t know what that will look like when there are other avenues available for dating but I do believe it will consistently be up. Now people are having to do virtual dates, and be really clever with quarantine dates and what I love about This is that it’s causing people to be a little more mindful to slow down and also to be more creative and really get to know one another people have been obsessed we talked about love is blind on the show a few weeks ago, people have been obsessed with this idea of finding love without the confusion, I guess of what someone looks like and, and the visual seeing them face to face. But we all know like not every couple made it on love is blind. I’m not saying any spoilers or anything, but not every couple makes it. And so there’s this almost fantasy playing out where people are thinking that this is going to be the answer to unlock all of these problems in dating, that dating timelines are going to slow which you’ve heard me say on the show before and that people are going to become more mindful of who they’re having sex with the thought we talked about the other Netflix show too hot to handle recently. As well, what I think is really going to happen is that it’s, it’s we’re going to return to how it was before but we are going to have new filters in place. Like being able to do that video chat and having it not be weird. I that’s the biggest thing that I think will come away from COVID-19. With as far as dating is concerned, a lot of things that we once thought were weird, are no longer going to be weird video chat dating is not going to be weird. calling someone on the phone who you’ve never met is no longer going to be weird. It’s going to be normal again, like it once was. So I think this is a really great time, but we’re going to go through a little bit of an ebb and flow. They interviewed one of my favorite experts for this time magazine article, Helen Fisher, and she is a she’s a social scientist. She works at the Kinsey Institute. She’s studied the brain on love, and she says that thirst and hunger are not going to do And therefore, neither are the feelings of love and attachment that allow you to pass your DNA on to the next generation. So that’s what we have to remember. Like, I can get all intellectual about dating and dating plans and processes. But when it comes down to it, that drive for procreation and that drive for connection is the strongest thing in the world. That is, that is what drives everything, because we are wired to keep the human race going. And that is not going away just because of COVID-19. So there’s a lot of talk of people abstaining from sex, there was this government. I think it was a New York City slogan about you are your own safest sex partner right now, which is true and which has always been true, but people aren’t just going to forget about having sex or having connection because we had COVID-19. I think what we’re going to see if I can predict for a moment is that once the restrictions are lifted, There are going to be a couple of weird moments, like a first dance at prom, where people are like, I don’t want to be the first one to get out there and hit the dance floor like I don’t want to look weird or be the first one to make a fool of myself. So people are a little shy to enter the dance floor. And then a couple of brave people jump in, and everybody’s like, oh, there, you look cool, that looks fine. I want to do that too. And then everybody is on the dance floor, and then all of a sudden, the dance floor is gonna get really crowded. And people are going to realize that there is a risk right now in dating and making connections with people in holding hands kissing, touching other things that we’ll talk about later in the show. And I think there’s going to be a little bit of a balancing and a retraction where people are going to slow down again, and that’s where I hope we will land in this sweet spot of love and relationships. So check out this article. I’ll put it in the show notes. There was also a mention of really interesting experiment that they’re doing at you Pan. That’s sort of a love Love is blind inspired experiment where they’re trying to help people fall in love over email. During quarantine. I can’t wait to see what the results of that study are. I’m sure we will cover it on dates and mates but it is making me believe in love again. You know one couple that is love goals for life. Everybody has known of the romance between Jada Pinkett Smith and Will Smith. And we all look to them. We see red Table Talk and we see them out together and we’re like, they’re the perfect couple. They’ve got it all. They’ve got it all. But on read Table Talk recently jayda revealed that being in quarantine has made her realize that she and will don’t really know each other anymore. They’ve grown apart to some extent and they’ve been together over 20 years. And there is this lull in the relationship where you start to almost take your partner for granted and then you look at them and you think oh How could you take your partner for granted? This is Will Smith or how could you take jayda Pinkett Smith they’re both so amazing in their own right. But I love in the show how real jayda makes the issues that she’s going through and how grounded they are to make you realize that even though we idealize their relationship, and she is saying she was even idealizing, who her partner was, we can learn so much by hearing her honest take on what’s going on. And she’s saying that in this time, it’s also an opportunity. If you’re in a relationship right now, it’s an opportunity to get to know your partner again, on a deeper level. I’ve been doing like 20 questions and playing all these fun games with my husband, and really getting to see a different side of him. I don’t feel like it’s quite at the level of what Jayla said like I don’t know him at all. But I do feel like I have learned things that maybe if we hadn’t had that time to really slow down and really bond together that I may not have taken the time to stop and ask some of these questions that I’ve had answered. So this is a great reminder for us to not be complacent in marriage or in relationships and to always try to find that spark and that ability to be curious. You know, I’m always talking about that with dating, right. Be curious about your partner. And I think that is the silver lining on all of this, not just for jayda and will but for us as well.

 

Turns out, a lot of people may not be satisfied in their relationships right now because according to adult friend finder, they are seeing a big surge in new users. And this is a casual dating and camping site. So actually all of the so called cheating sites are seeing a big surge and That’s a lot of people trying to escape the reality like it’s intense in there. It’s intense when you are 24 seven with somebody that you, you maybe you really have strong feelings for them or maybe you have been growing apart for a while. And this intensity is just the thing to drive the wedge between you and where you’re seeking, seeking fulfillment from other sources. But here’s the thing on Adult friend finder, they also are helping people move into like virtual sec situations. And they had to launch a new platform called Virgie. I didn’t make it that name, y’all. It’s a platform that provides a safe environment for people looking to explore orgies during COVID-19. So some of these people may be in relationships. Some may be single, but a lot of these common video chat sites that We use like zoom, did you know this, like you cannot have relations on zoom, and not that they’re peeking in on everybody’s video chats, but there is an element of them monitoring what’s happening. And so these virtual sex parties could no longer happen on zoom, and they had to find another avenue for allowing the people that come to their site to be able to do the things that they want to do. So this is just to remind you that there’s something out there for everyone and whatever your need is right now, whether it’s an emotional or an intimate need or simply a sexual need. There’s no shame in the game y’all. You can find what you’re looking for. Online. The Google machine has made anything that you want possible and animation to you at the click of a button. So I encourage you to go out there and find what you’re looking for speaking of finding what you’re looking for getting your needs met, and let’s face it speaking of sex, we have a very hot guest for you today. As I mentioned at the top of the show, one of my inspirations Dr. Emily Morse will be joining me in just a moment, she’s going to tell us everything we need to know about building intimacy from first time sex and consent, all the way to reigniting the passion in a long term relationship. So if you’ve ever asked after what date Should I sleep with him? Does this sex mean the same thing to her as it means to me? am I even doing this right? Then this is the episode for you don’t go anywhere. Dr. Emily Morris is coming up in just

 

Unknown Speaker  13:49  

a moment.

 

Unknown Speaker  13:57  

We are back and I am here

 

Damona  13:59  

with the One and only Dr. Emily Morris. She has a PhD of human sexuality and she is the powerhouse behind one of my favorite podcasts sex with Emily. Please, please, please put your lips together give big smooches to Dr. Emily Morris. Hello.

 

Unknown Speaker  14:19  

Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here.

 

Damona  14:22  

I am so glad to have you here. People have questions and like, I can only take them so far. But you can take them all the way. Emily, wave ready to go. And I will just talk first about your mission with sex with Emily. You talk about make wanting to make sex. Easy to talk about and yeah, so it’s so listable and like topics that a lot of people are sort of

 

Unknown Speaker  14:45  

sensitive about

 

Damona  14:47  

you make it just you just bring down the walls and make it so simple.

 

Unknown Speaker  14:51  

Exactly. I mean, that’s my main mission is because most of us are not comfortable talking about sex because we don’t have any great models for it. Our parents weren’t Talking about it most likely our friends weren’t talking about it. We have a lot of shame around it. We think love is good girls don’t talk about sex and and you know, then what is it? What What message Am I sending if I talk about sex, so there’s just, there’s just a way that I want people to feel more, you know,

 

Damona  15:18  

take away the shame and the and the stigma around it and just make it comfortable. Because really, when we’re sexually healthy, we’re healthy overall, it contributes to a healthy lifestyle overall. So I just try to get people to understand that that’s, it’s something that we need to do to have an overall healthy life get comfortable talking about sex, and then that actually improves our sex life. Absolutely. And so many of our listeners realize that it’s an important part of a relationship and many of them are single right now and wishing for that right relationship. So I want to talk a little bit about building intimacy through the different phases. Let’s begin at the beginning with the people that are just starting like let’s say COVID aside, quarantine aside, they are just beginning new relationships and beginning to be intimate one.

 

Unknown Speaker  16:04  

So this there are actually like for some say it’s five, there’s about four stages of intimacy that we talked about in relationships. And the first one is the infatuation phase. This is the honeymoon phase, the phase that we all crave. And we want to we always, are always trying to get back to this phase. And this is when we first meet someone and we just think, Wow, this person is so perfect for me. everything lines up. It’s like, like, we’re so alike. It’s sort of the infatuation stage and the kind of the diffusion stage. And it’s sort of like and there’s also a powerful like, neurochemical thing going on in our brains where we feel like a kind of altered state of consciousness going on. And it’s sort of like they look at the brainwave patterns of, of people like falling in love, and they’re like, God, it looks like either they’re in love or they do some kind of drugs because it’s very similar, right? It’s a very similar pairing, and there’s a good feeling of euphoria and connection. So that’s like the first stage that we just were like, wow, we are so fused. Everything is just this person is my everything.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:07  

Yeah.

 

Damona  17:08  

So then we move past that because I’ve had like, they’re my listeners are tired of me saying this so much, but there’s no such thing as love at first sight. Like there’s lust at first sight.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:18  

I say that too. I’m like you not love it is lost and that is totally fine. Lust happens, but you are not in love.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:27  

Okay, so how, how can we move on to love what’s the next stage they might Okay,

 

Unknown Speaker  17:32  

the next stage is the conflict and the power struggle.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:36  

This is when you have your first fight.

 

Unknown Speaker  17:39  

This is when you think, oh, like how do I differentiate myself from my partner? Like, maybe we’re not so much alike. You know, we struggle to exert like our individuality in a relationship. And there’s like conflict and you’re like, how can there be conflict in paradise? I didn’t realize, but that is the second stage. And that’s kind of where You know, people kind of last through this stage because some do. But the third stage, if you want me to skip to that that’s adjustment we call the adjustment and consolidation. And that’s where couples end up. This is where couples end the relationship. This is where divorce happens. This is where drugs addictions happen, people start drinking more. And a lot of people don’t get through these stages, it becomes a lot uglier. In this stage. We think Oh, wow. Like I remember the first stage. We’re like, Oh, my God, we are so perfect together. Everything’s amazing. And this is the stage where we’re like, there’s nothing we are nothing alike. And what am I going to do with each other?

 

Damona  18:34  

I’m sure a lot of people are feeling that right now.

 

Unknown Speaker  18:36  

Exactly, exactly. If this is the stage, we crave to get back to stage one. But I think a lot of people are in this stage right now. They might never have seen themselves going into this stage but because maybe we’re quarantined with somebody, and there’s so much strife and there’s we don’t have the conflict resolution skills to get us past the stages is is really where people are, are stuck right? And so I urge people to, you know, to kind of take a beat and realize that we’ve never been in this place before. And there’s like a, there’s an anxiety level that’s like in the ether in the universe right now we’re sort of all experiencing it from every angle, at work and at home and just the consciousness of everyone is sort of a heightened state of unknown anxiety, confusion. And then you put on top of that the person that has to be your most comfort in your joy. Now they’re giving you some strife, it feels like so I just, I mean, I recommend people reaching out and using their resources. I’m a huge fan of therapy. And I think that right now, there’s a lot of therapists I’d say the majority of them are offering online therapy and online coaching right now. And just know that it’s okay. You don’t have to solve it on your own because it’s this kind of language and dialogue that you have with your partner that’s gotten you here. So you’re going to need someone else you’re going to need some more tools from the outside to help you and it’s totally okay. Just like we hire a coach for work, a business coach, a trainer to get in shape a nutritionist, you might need one for your relationship right now. Absolutely. I totally believe in that if you’re single, like, same thing, we agree on the right therapy right now. Right?

 

Damona  20:14  

Right. So what’s on the other side of that Emily? solve the conflicts. Right.

 

Unknown Speaker  20:18  

Okay. So, um, the conflict, right? And, and when you get to this is the stage where this is the maturation stage where you mature, you have learned to differentiate, and this is true intimacy, like you’ve worked through your deepest wounds, you have really figured out, you know, who you are, you’ve gone to the dark places of intimacy as you shared it with your partner. And this is the stage where you say, Wow, we are nothing alike. And that’s beautiful. We are nothing alike. And that’s why we work because we support each other. We come together with these beautiful skills. And we’ve, we’ve, we’ve matured together, we’ve grown it and again, this doesn’t mean that you’ve been together 25 years. This could happen quickly. I mean, this can happen over a year this year. You know, it typically won’t happen in less than a year. But it depends how much work you’ve done individually coming together as well. The comments have you grown? How much have you looked at your past? wounds your childhood, your past relationships? have you dealt with abuse and trauma and anger? And, you know, there’s always work to do, but how much and how much are you both willing to work? Like, sometimes there’s one person who, who’s so into growth mindset and growing together and there’s someone’s like, no, we’re fine. I everything I’ve done is fine. I need to work and grow. I’m really good here. And that’s, that’s tough. Yeah,

 

Unknown Speaker  21:34  

one person wants to grow and another person does not.

 

Damona  21:37  

Yeah, absolutely. You both have to be on the same page. And it’s also I would, I would add into the mix, you have to also be able to trust one another. And that’s, and I know that’s an element of all the work that you do, like if you are going to be intimate with someone whether it’s emotionally intimate or sexually intimate. There’s a level of trust you have to build when you say

 

Unknown Speaker  21:57  

absolutely, I mean, that’s the other thing is that you’ve built trust. See, I just kind of ran through those like quickly, but it’s like you. Yes, I mean trust is. Trust is something that you when you have it you have in your relationship and you don’t really think about it because it’s there. But once trust is broken in a relationship, it can be really difficult to heal, especially on your own. And the couples who like I hear from couples all the time, who say or it’s one person who says, well, but partner cheated on me and it’s been rough ever since. But I should be over it already. Or then the or the person who did the cheating says to me, why isn’t my partner over? And it’s like, well, what work have you done? Just saying I’m sorry, doesn’t gonna do it, or just because years or has passed, those wounds are still there. So you have to sort of rebuild, but you have to do that together. And again, I believe that can best be done in therapy. And it’s very hard to rebuild trust on your own. But yeah, trust is huge. That’s a big part of intimacy is couples like, like having trust, having integrity in the relationship. You know, broke broke through. It’s messy. They broken things down. They’ve rebuilt them. And they’ve they’ve stayed together and, and only like they say like only 5% of couples get to that that last stage of intimacy that really get there and really do it. Yeah. I mean,

 

Unknown Speaker  23:11  

I’m hoping I’m their girl.

 

Damona  23:14  

Living the dream, living the dream, but like, I want to go back for the listeners that are still single. When you’re building trust with someone new, that’s really, really hard. And a lot of times I get the question about when to be intimate with someone when to have sex. And then how do you even talk like, should you talk about it before you have sex? What’s the a DA, being? Sexy?

 

Unknown Speaker  23:40  

It’s a great question. I mean, I do believe that. That in order for us to be in a sexually healthy relationship with to be if we’re going to be having sex with someone, we have to be comfortable talking about it. The problem is where we’re at today in 2020s, that most people no matter what their age are, their their their backgrounds, their everything. They will not come through with it. We don’t have models. We don’t have people have done it. But I do believe and I do know this, the couples who are the healthiest and have the best sex lives are able to talk about it. And so I think before you talk about your before you have sex somewhat with someone how great to just say like, how important is sex to you in the relationship? You know, what kind of things are you into? I actually you could say I, it’s something that I’ve been on a journey to figuring out or getting comfortable talking about sex. I don’t have a lot of experience with talking about sex, but I know that it’s important. So would you be willing to be a partner that could talk about it with me, we could talk about what we like and what we’re into and what we don’t like or if we’ve never done this a we can figure it out together. But I know that sex is a really important part of a relationship. And I think, yeah, I mean, I think the sooner we talk about it, the better especially after you start having sex with someone. I don’t believe in this. Let’s wait a few months while it’s still really great. Cuz that’s when you should talk about it. Maybe just talk about how great it is or the things that you really liked about it. But it’s fun. Because we’re in relationships, and we’ll talk about like, we go to a movie, and we’ll talk about how much we liked the movie will have gone to dinner and we’ll say like, wasn’t a delicious meal. Well, yeah. didn’t love the appetizers. But I really enjoyed the, the main course. Well, we I don’t know if I’d go back there again. But sex we just like, we have the sex, and then it’s over. And then we don’t ever talk about it. And then no one knows

 

Unknown Speaker  25:20  

how it went.

 

Unknown Speaker  25:23  

Down.

 

Unknown Speaker  25:25  

Like, were we in a different, like, read a different thing here. We read different movies where we had a different,

 

Damona  25:30  

but a lot of times people are in different movies when they’re there.

 

Unknown Speaker  25:33  

They

 

Unknown Speaker  25:35  

thought that’s great. And the other is like, this is terrible. I don’t want to do this again. We’re sex in

 

Unknown Speaker  25:39  

my life. Exactly. So how great to be able to talk about it and a lot of my show. It’s funny. People hear the name sex with me. They think Oh, God, I don’t know if I’m ready for that. And I have to tell you that most of what I talk about is getting people comfortable communicating about it. I always say communication is a lubrication. And the more that we talk about taxi, we get comfortable with sex the much better stuff We’re going to have but it’s just getting to that place of, of breaking down the walls together and saying, like, I know this is awkward, but I really think it’s I know that it’s going to help us. So yeah, kind of talking about what your greatest memories are together, like, give her if it’s new thing, like, let’s talk about what did you like about last night and you don’t have to get into what you didn’t like yet because I have a whole process for that. But maybe to start off by complimenting your parents, and God, I really enjoyed the way you kissed my neck. When you kissed my neck, I felt these things run through my body that I haven’t felt in forever. And just affirming. So they know because maybe there was other things that you didn’t like, the let’s lead with the positive. I think we all like to hear the things that you do well, so that’s kind of like for early stage of relationships. I’ve other practices for the stuff we don’t like but I think just really enforcing reinforcing things that went well is harmful.

 

Damona  26:52  

I want to get into how you talk about this stuff if you don’t like and you have some questions actually in the next segment about that.

 

Unknown Speaker  26:57  

But consent comes up A lot

 

Damona  27:00  

for my listeners that are dating and just beginning to have sex. You know, Emily, I’m just going to ask you, I had a conversation off air with another with a male dating coach. I know. And we were talking about consent, and he was talking about like sexy ways that guys can ask for consent. And then he said, I don’t believe in asking for consent for a kiss. And I was like, Well, now we’re like, separating the process of intimacy. I want to get your take on that.

 

Unknown Speaker  27:30  

Well, I believe that there’s a really I think that in this day and age, there’s that Yeah, ask for consent for case i think i think there’s ways that you could do it. That’s really consensual. That’s really like, consensually, it’s positive. Again, consensual comes off as consensual, not offensive and kind of sexy. So you could just say I

 

Unknown Speaker  27:52  

What about just like, I’d really like to kiss you right now. Yeah, I can’t stop thinking about kissing you. Would you Be open i mean i’m really thinking about I can’t stop thinking about kissing you Would that be okay? How would you feel about that? And like looking at someone in their eyes and saying like,

 

Unknown Speaker  28:10  

like that’s the way it’s not like

 

Unknown Speaker  28:11  

I would you mind if I kissed you right now like it’s all it’s all energy yeah I think saying like you know I would really like to kiss you right now how how does that feel to you it’s just a really honest Looking in their eyes you feel seen and maybe you don’t want to but I’ve had guys say that to me. And even though it was really sweet I’m like, oh God, thank you for letting me know that. I’m not feeling that right now but I so I let’s keep talking I’ll let you know if I if that if my position on that changes. You know,

 

Unknown Speaker  28:42  

I’m glad that you can be so honest about that moment. I think a lot of women feel bad saying no to a case or even saying no to sex.

 

Unknown Speaker  28:54  

You’re such a good point here. Yeah,

 

Damona  28:56  

I hate that. We we don’t even you know, we we’re kind of Meaning that we are supposed to be polite, like, how can we get that kind of

 

Unknown Speaker  29:04  

confidence? Right to Mona like, this is the thing is that people is that. So I’ve talked about this a lot on my show. My show as well is that so many women we just have like we just say yes, because it’s so much easier than saying no, like I always I did a speech once. I was like, how many of you have just had sex? Because it was easier than saying now like, how many of you like given that blow job because you’re like,

 

Unknown Speaker  29:27  

raising my hand.

 

Unknown Speaker  29:29  

Same thing, and it’s like, why is it so hard? And I think it’s because we don’t we’re pleasers. We don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. We don’t want to come off as prude. We don’t want to come off as we don’t want to deal with conflict. And so it’s like, and I love that we’re having this conversation because I think it’s like first off for some women. They’re like, Oh, I can say no, like literally they don’t know they can say no. Well, the person already came to my room. I’ve already invited him to my home or we’re already on a date and they bought me a nice dinner and donate. Oh, oh them. You don’t know what else You don’t owe anybody anything but your real truth and your real honesty said in the most, in the kindest way possible in the most like, me doesn’t have to be kind of someone’s being aggressive. But I would, I would, I’ve learned that there’s nuances that to it, and I think of how to say no. And so. So usually what’s happened perhaps, historically, is that and this is sort of a somatic practice. As a medic therapy practice, I’m a trained somatic sex therapist as well. And what I mean by somatic is, is it being in your body, so embodied and really paying attention to when someone comes towards you, or someone’s touching you? How does it make you feel? And so what happens is so So an example would be, let’s say, someone and we probably had this experience where perhaps they just escalated a little bit too quickly. Like maybe the kiss happened. Like, I’ll give you the example of the kiss I just use so maybe someone tried to kiss me. I just I’ve had guys say, like, should we just kiss right now and get over it? And I’m like, no. No, not right now. But just because I say no doesn’t mean that maybe we truly could revisit this later. Or maybe Okay, so no better example that’s maybe more relatable to people is say you start making out with someone, and it’s getting hot and heavy, and then they start to put their hand on your pants. And it’s not like you wouldn’t want that. Eventually, maybe in an hour, maybe next time I see you, maybe in a month from now. But sometimes the whole it shuts out. We just wanted to what we really wanted that moment was just keep making out. We loved making out with this person. And so so so my experience be getting in touch and feeling like, Oh, I felt me get tense right now I’m not ready for that. And then being able to have the word say, put your hand on their, you know, on their hand and say, I’m not feeling that right now. But I’m really enjoying making out with you. So let’s keep doing that. Or I need to take a beat for a moment. Can we just pause on that for a second? I’m so loved loving getting to know you right now. So that signals to them I’m not saying gay. Go home, get in your car leave my house. I’m saying this is escalating beyond where I want it to go right now. And I’m sort of enjoying the arousal process of getting to know you the kissing. And I think we will often either just think we got to shut it down or we got to keep going. And we don’t realize that there’s a nuance to the process of arousal because most men if we’re talking about heterosexual relationships, for example, men escalate quicker than women. Men get aroused and turned on they have more of a responsive desire they respond to things happening in the moment or women or women are more responsive like we need things to build where men are spontaneous, they get aroused a lot quicker. Women are slow cookers and men are frying pan. So literally in that same moment of making out there ready to go to third base to us little tournament. We’re like no, I love getting to know your lips. So sad. Yeah,

 

Unknown Speaker  32:53  

yeah. And I love how you keep

 

Damona  32:54  

reiterating what it is that you like and even when you are giving a credit direction or a reset of the energy. It’s still with a reminder that you like where you are what

 

Unknown Speaker  33:08  

if you just

 

Unknown Speaker  33:10  

don’t you’re not feeling it at all and you need to send a very Okay,

 

Unknown Speaker  33:13  

great distinction so I think if you’re not feeling it you just stop and you say and this happened to me very recently.

 

Unknown Speaker  33:20  

Tell us about it.

 

Unknown Speaker  33:21  

Oh god you guys I’m telling you this is this work is not it’s not like I’m a pro at it I just in the moment sometimes it’s still always a little bit uncomfortable because you feel bad and all those things come up. I’m just telling you ways to do it that are you know, that are a little more that feel good to everybody involved. So I had to say I we were going to make no for round and I thought I’m not feeling this guy anymore. It’s just it. I had already had some hesitations. And I just stopped and I looked him I said, you know, what, can we slow down for a second? And I said, I I gotta tell you, I so love spending time with you. But but but in this moment, right now, I’m feeling like we got to just kind of take a pause. And can we just get up and just kind of go back to my living room. Just kind of chat and then we move down he was it okay. Okay, I said Listen, I’ve just so I have a lot of things happening in my life right now. And this is all true. And I just said I I’m not feeling like I’m in a place to be really physical with you right now but I’ve so enjoyed our time and let’s just do need a glass of water and let’s talk and I was just, I was working through in the moment as well because I’ve learned that if I am not fully on board and my whole body’s out of hell, yes, I can it’s a violation to who I am as a woman as myself. I can’t keep going so I had to say it but I’m saying can be clunky and I feel bad but then I’m he got it though it is it okay. Like I understand you. Let’s talk. I wasn’t saying get the hell out. I wasn’t I was like, let me explain my process. So

 

Unknown Speaker  34:41  

yeah, the other thing that you did

 

Damona  34:42  

that’s really great is you really stayed in the moment like I’m always telling my listeners not to get ahead of themselves, like you weren’t, like, This guy has to get out right now because I don’t know where this is going. You just are like right now this doesn’t feel right to me. And so I’m just going to react to this moment. Exactly, yeah. And that’s a lot of pressure off yourself, right? Because when you’re when you start thinking about, like, what happened before what happened after I mean, that’s another thing like people that have had sex before that realize they don’t want to have sex with someone again, it’s kind of like you were saying earlier, there’s this feeling like, well, if we’ve already had sex, we might as well just have sex again. Now, right, you always have a chance to choose right?

 

Unknown Speaker  35:21  

Every you have a chance to choose in every moment and with every relationship and with every encounter, to be to, to to change your mind. And when we’re present. So what we’re talking about is when we go into an experience like that, where we’re like, I gotta get out, we go into fight or flight. And we go into the future in the past. We don’t make great decisions for ourselves. So to say, we’ll say like, go back to right now in this moment, I am not feeling it. We have totally we have agency over that and you don’t owe anybody anything. You don’t owe anybody another kiss, another sex another date, like really don’t and I think that is women. This is just like we’re breaking, you know, so many years of this stigma and this feeling that women just have to and we owe it to men, and we just don’t We don’t, and we could take care of ourselves and it’s our bodies, our choices, and all those things are really real. And I think the more that we do that in every situation, we’re going to be just so much, so much better set up for our relationship that we can teach our daughters or nieces or the women in our life. How to do that as well.

 

Unknown Speaker  36:17  

Yeah, paradigm. It is. Thank you for reiterating that. Okay, I want to go back, you said that you had some tips in case you you need to give someone some

 

Unknown Speaker  36:32  

constructive criticism. Yes. How do we do that?

 

Unknown Speaker  36:36  

Okay, I love the compliment sandwich. So, do you want to give me an example of something you might want to correct? It can be from your life damona or anywhere else? Like what would be something that you might want to give feedback or that you’ve heard from your listeners? Oh, I don’t like the way.

 

Damona  36:50  

Is there anything? Actually I did get a DM when I was asking for questions about a woman who said she has trouble climaxing during oral sex

 

Unknown Speaker  37:01  

with boyfriend. All right. So that is such a common a common thing. So I, so well that’s, that’s interesting because so what she might be saying is,

 

Unknown Speaker  37:12  

Okay, here we go. So she’d say babe, sweetie, okay, here’s my first step

 

Unknown Speaker  37:17  

outside the bedroom. Number one, you do not have the conversations about what you’d like to change, or giving feedback to your partner in the bedroom after a sex act. Because we’re in a heightened state of arousal. Maybe we’ve just we’re connected where I like the bedrooms. I like that for sleeping and for sex. But when we’re gonna have a conversation about our sex life, do it when you are in an environment where you’re kind of chilling, you keep it light, maybe you’ve just had a drink, you’re at dinner, you’re going for a walk. I love walking and having conversations on a road trip because these conversations can be so awkward and uncomfortable at first. You don’t have to make eye contact if you’re driving your car like okay, babe, I think we should talk about our sex like that. That concept

 

Unknown Speaker  38:01  

is the environment for any conflict IV.

 

Unknown Speaker  38:04  

any conflict, get in the car time to walk the dog with you again. So then so then you say okay, so I realized that I want to talk to you about I’ve been thinking about our sex life. This is the compliment sandwich. And, and you start with something you love. I think that it’s been lately the way you’ve been. The way it’s been a lot slower lately. And I love the way you’ve been like making out and that thing you did with your tongue and my on my neck or my ear felt so good. Like, I feel like we’ve really been, you know, connecting lately in that way. And I realized that when you go down on me it is so it’s like my favorite thing. It’s so hot. I get really aroused. And lately I haven’t been able to orgasm. I was thinking that perhaps if we took a little bit more time with it, and I could have a few more. You know, sometimes I feel guilty because I feel like I’m taking too much time. And I feel like if we He just kind of settle in, I knew that you were kind of into it as well that I would definitely have the most explosive orgasms, and then the last piece of the bread would be, and I know that when I’m really turned on and having orgasms, it just makes me want to have sex every day. He

 

Unknown Speaker  39:15  

want and that’s what he wants. He never wants

 

Unknown Speaker  39:18  

  1. So I mean, that was a lot. You know, that was. That was I was also answering the A common question that women have about why can I orgasm during oral sex? And typically, it’s because women are, well, we can sum up the compliment sandwich first and I’ll get into oral like, but typically you want to be very positive. You want to stay curious. You don’t want to be accusatory or blame I’ve told you so many times to go down. I mean more, why doesn’t this happen? Because the second you do that they’re just out the door. So really, it’s just here’s what I love. Here’s why this would be great in a suggestion and then ending with like, the reason why it’s great for both of you is my best tip.

 

Damona  39:53  

I love that. I love the compliment sandwich. I have so many questions Emily. I would love to just keep on talking You feel like questions, but so many people have submitted their questions. So I’m gonna roll on into our next segment. Do you have questions and Emily and I have answers. So now it’s time for your favorite segment. And I just want to remind everybody, these are going to be a little bit more R rated than usual. But Emily, I’m sure these are no biggie for you. You got it? Yeah, no questions like this all the time. Our first one comes to us from Katie from Canada. She says, My husband needs a few days between sex sessions, or he can’t get hard. Is this normal? And just to give you a little bit more background, because I followed up with her She said she’s 31 He’s 37. She’s never noticed the refractory time before, but since the quarantine she’s noticed that if she tries to initiate again that day or days following it doesn’t lead anywhere or he’s not able to and that feels like a long time.

 

Unknown Speaker  41:00  

Okay, got it? That’s that’s a great question. And I love that she gave me his age because when people email me their questions, it’s really important to people’s age and to know where they’re at So, so, if you’re 37 if he’s 37 so here’s what I think the refractory time for men meaning the time it takes for them to be able to have sex again after they ejaculate. You know, when you’re younger men can kind of keep going. And when they get a little bit older, it can be challenging, but 37 is still young, typically, men start to see challenges around erections. And around in their 40s is when there’s a drop in testosterone. And so what I would think what my first hit from this is that what the first thing is, it could be medical, it could be testosterone drop, it could be if he’s taking any medications, the first thing to look at is as you change anything at all, is he drinking more? Is he on a medication, there’s a lot of medications that actually impact our ability to get to have an erection to have an orgasm. So that’s what we got to look at a lot anything medical, and then we take away all of that. Listen We are in a time of tremendous stress and anxiety, which already before quarantine is the number one killer of our sex drive. When we are stressed, and we are anxious, especially men, I find this in men more than women, when men are concerned about money, their job, something happening, their ability to be in the masculine and take care of the family like that really has an impact on their desire. And so I don’t know that you should be concerned. But I think that maybe I would tell Katie to go a little bit deeper. And just like how I said, to have the conversation about sex in a neutral environment, the same thing goes for this kind of thing. Just say, I’ve been thinking about you. And I know you said it’s gonna take a few days is it you know, tell me about how you feel? Is there anything we could do? You’re doing in a way to help that like, I can’t believe it, you’re not getting turned on because a lot of times what women we do is we think oh, he’s not attracted to me anymore. Something’s wrong with me. Or, you know, and just being like, supportive and saying like, well, let’s take a look at it. Let’s take a look at like your medication, or do you think it could be something stressful Something I could do to help you more like relax right now because a couple days is a long time, like in the sense of like, I’m sure he could still get turned on but I feel like there he might just have other things on his mind right now is what is what I’m thinking. Yeah,

 

Damona  43:14  

I’ve been hearing that couples in quarantine together are actually having more sex right now. So I wonder also if she’s been like, does this

 

Unknown Speaker  43:23  

I don’t know that you’re hearing everything Okay, so I’m hearing that there’s some couples who are like, Oh my god, it’s so great. We’re both home now. I’m not traveling as much for work and we’re just having this time that we’ve always craved. other couples are like, I’m going to there’s nothing sexy about living in this one bedroom apartment and I’ll be doing and staring each other and that is not hot. Because something about you becoming one of candles eroticism when you don’t have the surprise and the mystery in the spotlight at all that is just washed away with this quarantine. So I actually, I don’t want to put any more pressure on everyone. Like I think it’s different across the board. But but maybe Yeah, maybe Katie’s feeling like she wants it more because maybe he’s been away a lot now. Homework. And maybe he’s trying to figure out how to work at home. And how do I make sense of this all. And he’s just really stressed and is more distracted right now. And so maybe creating a space for them and their relationship where they can separate from work and creating a time where they’re scheduling sex, which is one of my best tips for couples always and right now to say, I know that we’re having sex these three days this week, so you’re not one of you isn’t feeling like you’re always rejecting their partner, or someone wants it more than the other. But when you can plan it, and you know, like sex is happening eight o’clock on Saturday, you can kind of start to look forward to it. You can get ready, you can shower, you can shave what you can like, talk about the things you want to do. And then that becomes your activity that you’re both going to share and it works better for for both usually.

 

Damona  44:43  

Yeah, and what else do we have to do right now? Exactly right. I’m all about the date night so I had to make a date night appointment with my husband like after the kids go to bed. Saturday night, your mind. Now he knows this. He knows what’s coming. Okay. We talked about women and oral sex but from the other side This question comes to us from Ashley on Instagram. She says, My boyfriend can’t climax from a blow job trying to deal with my ego thinking it’s just me any tips?

 

Unknown Speaker  45:17  

Great question, Ashley. I hear this all the time. First off, it is not you I wish I could just talk to the collective conscious of women and be like most of the things that are happening with your boyfriend’s your partner’s penis has nothing to do with you. It’s very common that men cannot orgasm from blowjob and and so it could be a lot of reasons it could be the way he masturbates. It could be the way he’s holding his penis. It could be because he’s watching a lot of porn. And it is harder for him to masturbate with with a mouse there is. Now also I want to say yeah, maybe there’s something else that he wants sexually. And you’re allowed to say to him God, I really love performing oral on you. I’d love to know your best tips of how I can make it the best blow job ever. But I wouldn’t ask him in the moment, I would say I’m going to or I would say I want to start asking your next time when you show me what you love because I want to be your best ever. You could do that as well, Ashley but there are I’m hearing this more and more lately that there’s just a lot of men who just aren’t orgasming from blowjobs and I just I’ve always heard it but something lately and I have a hunch it has to do with porn. Because I believe that men are watching so much that’s a whole nother show. We could do more and watching But yeah, I do believe that I’m not like anti porn by any means I get that it serves its purpose. But when we have one way of holding ourselves and one way of generating pleasing ourselves, it can be challenging to bring anyone else into the mix even if she’s like a you know, expert porn star, whatever like doesn’t for a living, it can still be challenging. So best take your ego out of it and just get some healthy communication with your partner.

 

Unknown Speaker  46:53  

That’s great advice, Emily.

 

Damona  46:55  

Okay, this one is another Instagram question from Shannon. She says, what does it mean when your new boyfriend goes limp when you get on top of them? He says he’s had this problem in his last relationships, too. He can function in other positions, but he climaxes quickly.

 

Unknown Speaker  47:15  

Okay, Shannon, this is a great question too. It’s like, I wish we knew her age, but I’m telling you, it sounds like she might be a little bit. I don’t know, younger. I don’t know why I have this sense. But I feel that men have penis challenges, trust him that he has that trust that it’s happened in his past relationship.

 

Unknown Speaker  47:33  

And

 

Unknown Speaker  47:36  

when you get on top of him,

 

Unknown Speaker  47:40  

I mean, okay, so most of the challenges that men face with their penis have to do with anxiety and has to do with things that have happened in a situation that’s happened in the past. And all men want to do is perform. They want to be great lovers. They want to stay at heart and they want to keep going. But sometimes if things have happened in the past, it even only takes one time. We’re like, Oh, no, I’m going to get soft and this isn’t, you know, this, this, this keeps happening over and over again. And then they are they’re reinforcing it and their behavior. It’s a what it means is I think again, you have to kind of understand what kind of like what positions, he functions in other positions, but he climaxes quickly does he climax. So what I’m hearing then is that in every position, he climax quickly, but then when you get on top, he gets soft. So it’s just it’s almost like you’re having, these are challenges that you’re having. And

 

Unknown Speaker  48:33  

yeah, and that’s her favorite position. She was saying that’s the that’s the position that she can come in most easily. But he can’t perform in that can perform that

 

Unknown Speaker  48:44  

way. Well, here’s the other thing I want to say is what I believe that if he gets limp, he can probably he can get harder again. So what we have to do when our partners get limp is not freaked out and not ended just because they’re like, Oh my god, I can’t believe it. You could be like it’s okay baby and then you could go down And again, you can start to touch him, you can use some lube, you can like, get him hard again, because just because he got soft, doesn’t mean that it can’t come back and again in a moment, but it’s the both of you that collective, he’s going, I didn’t say that often you’re like, he’s not hard, and then it becomes a thing, but just be like, it’s okay, babe. And then you could kind of work around, make out again, do some other things. And I guarantee you, he’s going to get hard again. I mean, I’ll come back. And that’s a training thing, and then you get back on top of them. And then if it happens, again, you go back down again. And I think once you both realize that he can get hard again, it’s gonna be able to come back. This is what I’ve experienced with with people, it’s just a matter of retraining, what what means sex is over what means you know what I mean? So I think baby does have experience with that position. And he really think the reason why he’s getting soft is because I think he probably really wants to be there and deliver and he just can’t. So it’s kind of retraining. It’s almost like creating new neural pathways in the brain. That’s what it’s about.

 

Damona  49:56  

Knowing Yes, well, and it sounds like this relationship is knew, but I often hear from people in long term relationships that they want to try new things or they get to this Roadblock, and they don’t really know how to take things in a different direction. What do you say to that?

 

Unknown Speaker  50:15  

Oh, it’s it’s a great question because that is so common that couples are like, what what do we do? What where do we go? We’ve got

 

Damona  50:19  

our friend Emily.

 

Unknown Speaker  50:21  

Exactly. I was gonna say, Come on, girl. It’s okay. But the first thing is, is communicating about it and saying what? I think we can both agree that we want to be the greatest lovers to each other ever. And I love all these things about relationship but there’s I feel like there’s so much more that we don’t even know we’ve been together so long would you can we can we make this our thing right now? Can we figure out what would be super hot for both of us? And a great place to start is you each talk about maybe you will share the most memorable time you’ve had sex like what is the top three moments for you? Like it could be like something that happened or position or glance or a look? And then just by you explaining that And then your partner coming back to you and saying his times, there’s so much detail. There’s so much information just in those moments like, like, the most memorable time could be, you know, when you guys were on vacation, and oftentimes on vacation because there’s no distractions, and maybe you were in a hotel room, and then all of a sudden, like someone else walked in and saw you. And then you’re like, Okay, well, there was no distractions, the window was open, and then someone else walked in. So there was like, the element of surprise, or maybe voyeurism. Or maybe it was it was going really slow. And he was slowly it was the way that he slowly addressed you. Or maybe you had a blindfold on. I mean, there’s intelligence in these in these moments. So I think once we find out these are the things that that worked, and why you like them, and then your partner would share the same things and you can say, Okay, well, let’s do more of that. So that’s a great place to start. Another thing is just to get smart together and a lot of couples Listen, I’ve found over the years I’ve been doing this for 15 years. The podcasts a lot of couples listen together to my show. And they’re like, Oh, well Emily says this and, you know, use me like, I don’t care if people blame me and they’re like, well, like you can stop and be like, what do you think about us trying watching porn together or buying some sex toys together? That is mostly what we’re missing. It’s not that we don’t love our partner, but we’re missing novelty. We’re missing something new and different. So it’s like toys, getting ideas, research, reading a book together, listening to my show, just finding new ways to connect. You know, it could just be even outside the bedroom, like our same bedroom over day over day can get boring. Everything does after a while,

 

Damona  52:36  

especially sex. Thank you for those tips. I’ll be sure to pass them on to my friend. This was awesome. Thank you so much for joining me Emily. I’m so glad to have you on dates and maybe

 

Unknown Speaker  52:47  

you for having me. I’m so honored. And

 

Damona  52:52  

y’all you got to get listening to the sex with Emily podcast or check her out on Sirius XM stars channel 109. She’s on every day. You can find her on your favorite podcast platform. And hey, like she said, you can use the podcast as a jumping off point for your next sex talk. Thanks so much for being here.

 

Unknown Speaker  53:11  

Thank you for having me.

 

Damona  53:13  

We have made it through Episode 308 of dates and mates. I actually did an interview on Emily’s podcast too, and I’ll put a link in the show notes or you can join Patreon, where I’m adding the cliffsnotes versions of all of my media interviews and podcasts that I’ve appeared on. I’ll bullet out everything you need to know so you can follow along and soak up the most important info. But that’s not everything you would get from being in my patreon Friends with Benefits Program. I also have a step by step video training on how to start online dating today. Plus in a few days on Wednesday, the sixth of May, I’ll be dropping a new video training on how to tell if someone is good match for you on Tinder. Just using Facial analysis techniques work. Yes, watch the mind of some of our listeners being blown as they experience the brilliance of a live facial analysis by Susan. I bet, y’all Honestly, this is like a game changer info. It’s all going down in the Patreon. You can get all of these resources for you starting at just five bucks a month@patreon.com, slash dates and mates. I’d love to have you join the community. In the meantime, please, let’s let’s connect. I’m on all the socials at damona Hoffman. And I love hearing from you all all of these questions that we’ve been getting are so rich and layered. And I know that there are a lot of you nodding your head to these questions going, Oh, that’s a problem for me too. And if you’re thinking that then I want to hear what your question is, because I guarantee you it’s going to help somebody else who is listening to the show. Don’t forget to share, share what you’ve learned, share this episode and Please join me again next week all my subscribers get the episodes the minute that they post until next week.

 

Unknown Speaker  55:06  

I wish you comfortable face masks and happy dating

Sexy Scrabble & Chemical Romance

YOUR BRAIN ON ROMANCE

Today, we’re talking about brain chemistry and romance. Do you remember those ‘Your Brain on drugs’ commercials from the 90s? They were all like, “your brain will turn to mush, and you won’t be able to make good decisions, and your emotions will be all over the place….” Yeah, basically that’s also your brain on love.

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But not to fret! Later we’ll be talking with Noelle Cordeaux – co-host of the “Everything Life Coaching Podcast.” She’s here to help us prevent our brains from turning into mush and give us a guide to the brain for romance.

More on that later, first Damona covers headlines!

 

DATING DISH (3:30)

Where the affairs are happening right now

This week, Damona received a press release from Seeking Arrangement explaining that their usership is actually up.

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Ariana isn’t spending quarantine alone

Okay so here’s what we know about Ari’s new boo: he’s a real estate big shot, he has a lot of the same friends, and he miiiiiggght basically be Pete Davidson.

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New ideas for quarantine dates

Listen, we’re all tired of Netflix and Chill. Men’s Health has some new ideas to keep things interesting while quarantine dating. Sexy Scrabble anybody?

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MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE (10:45)

Our guest for today is Noelle Cordeaux,  the CEO of JRNI and the co-host of the “Everything Life Coaching Podcast.” You may remember her co-host from a previous episode, John Kim – The Angry Therapist.

She’s here to give us a basic “Romantic’s Guide to the Brain” and some perspective on how your brain and your biology affect romance.

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Noelle and Damona talk:

  • My Chemical Romance: The 3 human brain chemicals in each stage of romance  
  • Serotonin and the “meet cute.” 
  • Why your brain has you thinking, “This is the one!”.
  • Why you can’t see the” truth” about your partner until 24 months after you first meet 
  • Why your brain can’t tell the difference between a new “pair bond” & an opioid addiction  
  • How female birth control changes the way you evaluate a partner 
  • Why we seek partners who represent something we missed in childhood
  • When you’re most likely to fall in love
  • Slow love?
  • Love isn’t an emotion

Check out the Everything Life Coaching Podcast podcast on all your favorite podcast platforms!

TECHNICALLY DATING (34:25)

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Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • My date forgot about a date that we scheduled 24 hours ago. Last night, we set a time, place, and everything and planned to get drinks after he got off work. Basically, I waited at the place for 30 minutes, sent him a text, to which he replied “?”. I got stood up and he’s so apologetic about it but is this a red flag? His text to me “sorry I’m a total dick and I deserve never to be talked to again.” but no explanation or attempt to salvage
  • I’m seeing a woman who told me she doesn’t want to go deeper because she doesn’t want to risk losing our friendship. Should I keep trying or is this a soft way to let me down?

 

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:12  

Hello lovers, I hope you’re all staying healthy and safe. But I’m hearing far too many stories about people still dating in person right now. Please do us all a favor and just stay home. There are still so many ways to connect. And I believe that in the end, this period will actually improve our connections and be better for dating overall. But in the meantime, we all have to do our part. If you’re still feeling that drive for connection, that desire to have matches pop up in your inbox. Don’t worry, I’ve got you covered. I just released an exclusive training just for my patients. Patreon friends with benefits all about social distance dating. It covers where the singles are right now, how to have a successful virtual date, how to know if a match is really right for you, and so much more. And that’s all waiting for you right now. If you join our Patreon community@patreon.com, slash dates and mates, the link will be included in the show notes and it’s only $5 to join. I’d love to have you be a part of the community. I’d love for you to keep dating and learning new dating skills working on your mindset working on your dating strategy. And I’m here to support you all the way through this pandemic. And I know your dating life may be stalled at the moment. But as they say, The show must go on we are not stopping. I’ve already told y’all I intend on making more episodes for another seven seasons. So you can still count on me every Monday for your dates & mates. Fix Today, we are talking all about brain chemistry and romance. You remember those? This is your brain on drugs commercials from the 90s. They’re all like your brain will turn to mush and you won’t be able to make good decisions and your emotions will be all over the place. Yeah, that’s basically your brain on love too, because love is a drug. But don’t fret. We are going to be talking with Noel Cordova. She’s the co host of the everything life coaching podcast, and she’s here to help us prevent our brains from turning to emotional mush. But first, I will be discussing this week’s headlines. Producer Leo is working remotely today but she is still churning out the dates and maids and we are sending her much love. We are going to be talking about where the affairs are happening during the quarantine and we have a big reveal of Ariana Grande is new boo. Plus new ideas for your quarantine dates if you’re tired of watching Tiger King and just go into bed. Oh wait, maybe that’s just me. Then Noel and I will cover your questions including, what do you do when you get stood up? And how to tell if someone is just letting you down easy.

Damona  3:24  

on the docket for today’s dates and mates. I am going to hit these headlines

Damona  3:33  

If you’re looking for an affair, I know just where to go seeking arrangement seeking comm reported that they had a 74% increase over this time last year and new members who here’s what this tells me. This quarantine can make or break it for your relationship if you are already seeing someone right now. But here’s the thing. It’s like It’s like These fantasy affairs that actually aren’t going to be consummated for a long time that are sparking up because people are in this pressure cooker. You’re with your partner all day, every day, all of the challenges that you have that you used to be able to escape are now staring you in the face every morning and noon and night. And so people are turning to apps and sites like seeking and Ashley Madison because they’re trying to escape. They’re trying to avoid looking at what these relationship challenges really are. And they’re just looking for an outlet to be able to chat and make a connection with someone else. Have someone else tell them that they’re beautiful that they are proud of them for what they’re doing that they are. They are happy that they’re hanging in there through this challenging time. We’re all just looking for a little more love and support. But what I would say Rather than turning to an outside person, could we use this moment to look inward at our relationship and see what could be fixed during this time, what you could talk through, and remember not to react to what’s being said, but to really take time to listen and respond thoughtfully and look for solutions. We are going to be in this unfortunately for a long time. And hopefully, if you made a commitment to your relationship, you’re going to be in that for a long time too. And we can’t keep brushing the problems under the rug, drag him out right now. And let’s talk about it in a compassionate way. And really look for solutions to these problems so that you can move forward stronger together in the future. One person that is a lot stronger than she was in her previous relationship is ariana grande de you may remember that she connected with this random Joe in a bar she was she was photographed smooching some guy up and nobody knew who he was. Well, it’s been revealed. It’s a fella named Dalton Gomez. He’s a high end real estate agent actually looks a little bit like Pete Davidson, who I was alluding to earlier, her big breakup from before. And she’s been showing him on social the last few days. But here’s the interesting thing about it. For a lot of you who may have started dating someone right before the quarantine, they’ve decided to quarantine together. And this really adds a big challenge for a new relationship. And she does have a history as you all know of jumping into relationships very quickly. I think she NP or engaged within three or four weeks of dating one another. So she’s done it again. She’s jumped right into the arms of the next guy waiting for her Look, she’s a cat. She’s a great girl, she loves to take care of somebody. And she’s ended up being the caretaker and a lot of these relationships she’s had in the past. But I just want to warn any of you who may be in a similar situation and facing a dating pattern. If you see yourself on the track, for a relationship, repeat doing the same thing that didn’t work in your last relationship, or let’s put on the brakes, back it up a little bit. This is a time to really slow down and evaluate. And if you are quarantining with somebody that you barely know right now, you have to really ask yourself, Is this what I want for my future? if let’s say one of us gets it, do I want to be sitting here sick with this person? Is this person going to be there for me? If If I need the support down the road, you may not know I don’t know. Maybe Dalton Gomez will be that for Ariana Grande day, but let’s just take a beat and Look at our relationship history, and decide if we want our relationship past to also be our relationship future.

If you’re looking for a quarantine date Men’s Health to the rescue, I will put the link to this in the show notes. I got to tell you, there were some pretty racy suggestions here. But there were also some very cute ideas like building a pillow for if you don’t have private outdoor access. I don’t know about you. But I remember as a kid, building a pillow for was one of the most exciting things I did. And you could do it inside the house. You don’t have to go out and it adds just this level of playfulness and feeling of nostalgia which is something you’ve probably heard me say on the show before that really can bond you to someone so I thought that was a super cute idea from mental. If you want to get a little risque. This isn’t even like close to one of the more risky ideas but they suggested playing strip scratching My husband and I, during our what was it our 30th wedding anniversary, I’m embarrassed. I don’t remember which University. He was our 12. Last year, we went to a hotel that had this cool little lounge with games in it. And we played the most fun game of Scrabble ever, over drinks. never occurred to me to play strip Scrabble. So maybe you could get a little creative. You could have a karaoke night. There’s a lot of apps that can connect you and there’s a link to one in the men’s health article. You could play a game of Never have I ever I also, if you followed the last TV series that I did a question of love that was based on the 36 questions that lead to love that was in the New York Times, and how asking these intimate questions can really bond you to your partner. If it bonded strangers, just imagine what it could do for someone that you’re already in a relationship with. But hey, maybe that is something you could try. If you’re doing virtual quarantine dates as well, there’s so many ideas out there. There’s so many ways that we can be creative and innovate. During this time. I just asked that you please stay home let’s, let’s flatten the curve. But let’s pique our interest in our current relationship or possibly in a new relationship. And in just a moment, we will have Noel corto, who’s the co host of the everything life coaching podcast, and the co founder of journey coaching, talking about your brain on drugs, the drug of love, I cannot wait.

 

We’re here with Noel Cordell. She is the CEO of journey and that’s about Jr. and I they are a coaching platform that trains coaches, and she’s also the co host of the everything life coaching podcast. You may remember her co hosts from that show from a previous episode. JOHN Kim the angry therapist great episode, check that out. But first, today we have to talk because Noel is going to be giving us the basic romantics guide to the brain and some perspective on how your brain and your biology actually affects romance. I am so pumped for today’s episode you guys know I’m, I’m all about this brain chemistry and nerding out on love. So luckily today, I don’t have to do it alone, please get big smooches to Noel Cordeaux.

Noelle Cordeaux 11:30  

Thank you so much for having me. And honestly, I don’t like doing it alone either. So this

Damona  11:36  

this is a wonderful day, I am really pumped because so many of my listeners feel like they’re kind of on this, this, this journey not to use it to use your own term, this journey of love and feeling like they don’t have any control over it. They don’t really understand what’s happening in their body. They don’t understand dating apps. They don’t understand how they’re reacting to people on dates, and they’re Just kind of going through the motions like there has to be a better way. And I find that the better way to start that way to solve most problems I’m sure as a coach you you would agree with this is to first figure out what the heck is going on

Noelle Cordeaux 12:14  

100% 100% I, you know, I say to my students at journey coaching and to my clients, it’s not you, it’s your brain. Okay, so let’s talk

Damona  12:24  

about that. My Chemical Romance there are three human brain chemicals that come into play at each stage of romance. Can you talk us through that?

Noelle Cordeaux 12:36  

Yeah, I sure can. And you know that some of these chemicals teamed up with each other. So there’s a lot of complex processes, but I think the most important piece of information that I can drop is the bomb, that when you experience romantic love, it’s actually not an emotion. It is a it is a hardwired motivator. system that’s evolutionary, and it’s been built up over the history of humankind, to enable humans to find and maintain intimate relationships with a preferred partner.

Damona  13:15  

Oh, wait, that’s deep. We have to back that up for a second. Because there’s a lot in there. You said love is not an emotion. We are basically biologically wired for it. So explain how that plays out then in today’s

Noelle Cordeaux 13:32  

in today’s world of dating,

Noelle Cordeaux 13:34  

yeah. So you know, the feeling the chemical feelings of romance are not the only motivational system that we have hardwired in our body. So another really common one is our negativity bias that’s associated with a fight or flight response. So the way that that works is because our ancestors used to have to physically outrun danger. We are naturally attuned to that which is negative. It really doesn’t help us out in modern life. Same deal with romantic love. Obviously, everyone loves love. We see it reflected in movies and poetry and music and all of the things that humans produce. So it’s clearly a huge and vital part of our existence and the purpose of it is procreation of the species. So whenever we’re feeling these feelings, we kind of have to step back and say, okay, there’s something deeper going on here. There are unconscious drives, there are chemicals, neurotransmitters that are coursing through our body that are kind of hijacking. our capacity to choose for ourselves how we respond and react in situations where romantic love is on the table.

Damona  14:50  

That sounds complicated. Noel

Damona  14:54  

In all seriousness, you know, I’ve said before on the show that I don’t believe in love at first sight. I believe in lust at first sight. But I think I believe in slow love and that love. True love develops over time. What’s your reaction to that?

Noelle Cordeaux 15:14  

You’re pretty spot on with the way the chemicals work,

Damona  15:18  

guys, I didn’t pay her to say that or anything. But you know, I’m saying I’m saying it from a from an experiential point of view of watching how my clients have developed relationships over the last 15 years that I’ve been doing this Tell me from like the more brain chemistry perspective, what’s really going on in that?

Noelle Cordeaux 15:38  

Yeah, so so when you fall in romantic love with someone, for men, it tends to be visually based for women, it tends to be emotionally based and, and that’s not as terrible as it sounds. You know, from an evolutionary perspective, symmetry is what typically tipped off on ourselves. species that somebody was healthy. So symmetry is attractive for people and men are more susceptible to focusing on symmetry than women. Women are looking for stability from partner. That’s where the emotional piece comes in. And again, this isn’t based in you know, kind of hearsay this is these are long held evolutionary traits. So, the deep cut is that we, we evolved from bonobos in this particular regard. We have a 90% DNA match with bonobos, which are chimpanzees. And these guys used to live in tree tops, and when they lived in tree tops, they were a non monogamous species. When they fell out of the trees and began living on the ground, though women were female, but no bows needed men to take care of them or males to take care of them and then they began serial monogamy and then humans evolved from that

Damona  16:58  

gives a whole different tone to the term swinging.

Noelle Cordeaux 17:02  

Oh, yeah.

Damona  17:06  

Okay, sorry for the corny joke, but I know a lot of people listening are thinking that was evolution, right. But we’re modern. We don’t have to be. We don’t have to be married to this old model of how relationships were formed.

Noelle Cordeaux 17:27  

Absolutely. What do you say to that? We do not have to be. We can choose we absolutely have determination. But what we don’t have control over is our brain chemistry. So when there there are two types of romantic love reciprocated and unrequited. And they’re very different beasts. And so you know, everybody listening, think about what it feels like to fall in love. That means that you have focused attention on that person that there’s magnification you have pink lenses, there intrusive thinking you can’t get that person out of your head you feel exhilaration, torrents of emotion, yearning for them looking for clues. How many times have you guys seen people like listening to songs looking for clues about the person they’re interested in? And all of those behavioral markers are actually driven by neurotransmitters that start showing up when our brain gets tipped off that, hey, I might have a meeting partner.

Damona  18:29  

Okay, so you’re telling me basically we are working against our own biology, like when when we say, Well, I don’t necessarily I don’t want a partnership or I’m not into monogamy? Is that what you’re saying? Or am I hearing this wrong?

Noelle Cordeaux 18:44  

Yeah. So so so when we’re talking about kind of working against ourselves, we have to understand where these drives are coming from. And there’s there’s two different kinds of mating drives. And so we’re using like really technical language here to describe what happens in us not As in certainly humans, but as an animal species, right, so we all have hardwired in us last, which is the craving for sexual gratification. And that evolved in humans, where we’re looking to seek sexual union with a semi appropriate partner so that when I say semi appropriate partner, that’s a genetic match. And that’s actually driven by a sense of smell in humans, interestingly enough, and then the second piece is attachment. And so that evolved in humans to enable our ancestors to live with me long enough to rear a child. And those feelings paired with a long term partner are a really specific part of your brain that grows with courtship rituals, and intellectual conversation and emotional bonding.

Damona  19:54  

So let’s talk about that because I mentioned slow love, but I think some of our listeners that are newer to this concept, don’t really get what I mean.

Noelle Cordeaux 20:07  

So how

Damona  20:08  

does that happen? And like how, what is actually happening in our brains as you’re getting to know someone slowly over time. And I’ll just add one thing. I also recommend that my clients spaced out their interactions. Because when it all happens when you’re in that initial phase, and you’re seeing each other, like every day for the first week, you think that you’re very bonded, and you’re having this flood of brain chemicals, I imagine. And then you get further down the road and the, the feeling changes what’s going on in that in that evolution.

Noelle Cordeaux 20:45  

Yeah, so so you’re I’m gonna validate you again, your advice is actually spot on. I’m two for two I two for two with your brain chemicals. So spacing out communication Gives you a fighting chance to disrupt the mayhem that takes place in your brain. So when you first fall in love or when you have that surge of chemicals with romantic love, that period of time with those bonkers chemicals will last 12 to 18 months. So we have to understand that first of all the first 12 to 18 months are not going to be an authentic representation of what you can expect from this person as a partner. So really early on, what happens is dopamine spikes and the other chemical we really want to pay attention to here is serotonin, which lowers so how those two components relate to each other is dobutamine is so very, very addictive. So a text message from that person, contact communication. They liked your Instagram post. That all gives you this motivation set that you keep wanting more You keep reaching for this romantic drug that you’re being fed. On the other hand, serotonin, which is a regulator lowers when you’re in that crazy beginning phase. So that serotonin regulator increases your sense of risk taking behaviors. That’s how people can get very swept away in the early stages of romantic love. serotonin produces a sense of call and mood stabilization. So when that gets hijacked everything kind of goes out the window in terms of actual sense.

Damona  22:32  

So we turn crazy is what you’re saying. Yeah, we sure do. We turn crazy. Our inhibition lowers. We’re like high basically high on dopa mean. We’re pretty messed up in that first phase,

Noelle Cordeaux 22:44  

very much so very much so

Noelle Cordeaux 22:47  

and that

Damona  22:48  

that’s for a relatively long time you said 12 to 18 months

Noelle Cordeaux 22:52  

12 to 18 months.

Damona  22:55  

So this is why we here Well, I thought I knew him and then married him. And this is not the man that I married, you’re saying it’s really not the man that you married, or you’re not the same?

Noelle Cordeaux 23:07  

Exactly both all of the above. And if you happen to be on SSRIs, which are a form of antidepressants, or birth control, the birth control messes up your sense of smell. And a lot of times when you go off of those kinds of medications, you’re no longer attracted to your partner because your turn on template was compromised when you first got together.

Damona  23:31  

Okay, so so what do we do Noel? Like, do we just take the IUD or do we take his shirt home and smell it and sleep with it? Like how can we retrain our brain so that we can be wired correctly for romance?

Noelle Cordeaux 23:45  

Yeah, well, you know, I think that

Noelle Cordeaux 23:49  

awareness is the key to everything. So having a pretty clear understanding of the way your brain works, what the brain chemicals are, how they exist, what your experiences In the moment is really valuable information. So let’s talk about testosterone. When you are single, your testosterone is higher. So you know how people say, Oh my god, I got no relationship and I put on weight. That’s because your testosterone lowered and you didn’t feel like working out and you were putting on less muscle and you weren’t as interested in attracting a partner. And then we break up your testosterone goes right back up again, that gets us into fighting form to find our partner.

Damona  24:30  

Wait, that’s for men and women.

Noelle Cordeaux 24:32  

Oh, yeah.

Damona  24:33  

Okay, so that’s, that’s different than what a lot of people hear we hear testosterone just being associated with men really, but for women, it’s also important driver in relationships

Noelle Cordeaux 24:44  

very much so very much though. So testosterone has a lot to do with your sex drive, and both single males and females have higher levels of testosterone and if you separate or divorce or breakup, your testosterone rises

Damona  24:59  

this Just this is just blowing my mind.

Noelle Cordeaux 25:03  

Okay, this is blowing

Damona  25:04  

my mind and I know it’s going to blow the minds of a lot of our listeners. What about for those who really want to fall in love? Like we have all the information we know that our brain is basically working against us or working in concert with biological factors that we cannot control you. Can you still fall in love in today’s world? Is

Noelle Cordeaux 25:24  

it possible? Yes, it is certainly possible. And you know, there we can work with our motivation system to induce scenarios when we actually fall in love. So I’ll give you the one two punch, I’ll let’s talk about the scenarios in which we’re most likely to fall in love. And then once we are in a relationship that we are kind of looking around and saying, well, this is a really good thing. Let’s talk about the parts of the brain and what we need to do to keep everything going. So you’re most likely to fall in love When you meet someone during a life crisis. So don’t you know try to bring on a life crisis but if you happen to be in crisis start looking around. It’s a really good move.

Damona  26:08  

This is this is pretty different. This is a different approach because a lot of times you hear that people like you shouldn’t meet someone in the middle of a crisis because everything in your life is a blur. Like what let’s define crisis for people

Noelle Cordeaux 26:26  

like Yeah, boy.

Damona  26:28  

Or girl.

Noelle Cordeaux 26:30  

Yeah, actually. Yes. So times of stress, make you more likely to fall in love novelty. If you meet someone when you’re moving. When everything is brand new. If you’re having a hard time at work if you’re suddenly meeting a whole bunch of strangers. Anything that is different or stressful makes you more likely to fall in love. When you’re faced with mystery novelty Kwazii dangerous situations.

Damona  27:00  

This is why I say no well that you want to do something on a date that has action and activity to it. Rather than just oh my gosh, if I hear of another boring dinner date, but if you do something or there’s like competition or your, you know, go kart racing and there’s adrenaline, that’s it, that’s a better

Noelle Cordeaux 27:24  

first date, right? It is, and it’s all to do with those dopamine levels. You’re kicking them into high gear.

Damona  27:33  

And probably also, I’m just just musing here for a second. We hear people meeting at the gym,

Noelle Cordeaux 27:41  

does that yes, does the testosterone

Damona  27:42  

level there have something to do with that? Likely

Noelle Cordeaux 27:48  

and we can smell people I mean, we can you can smell people. And and and that, you know, you cannot underestimate the role of smell. Women are attracted To men whose sweat smells good to them, and that signals that you’re good genetic match.

Damona  28:08  

I’m gonna say something really creepy.

Noelle Cordeaux 28:11  

Do it Do it.

Damona  28:12  

I actually smell my husband like, like, Oh, my God. How like a bloodhound. Yeah, like, go up to him. And I’ll be like, I just want to smell like this is so weird. That is not weird. I can tell him now this is not weird. Doesn’t change though. Like the way that we smell them as like we’ve been together 16 years do people’s smells change in the way that you are attracted to certain smells change over time?

Noelle Cordeaux 28:42  

No, the chemical foundation will remain the same. What changes is the the way that you experience pair bonding. So in the beginning, lust is the main driver and then as you go deeper into the relationship, that’s when attachment and emotion takes over. Mm hmm.

Damona  29:03  

Tell me more.

Noelle Cordeaux 29:05  

Yeah. So emotional attachment is one of the things that keeps couples together, and it goes through four year chapters. So as we’re thinking about this, there is a really specific part of your brain that we want to be concerned with. And it’s the cottage in stealer part of your brain. And this part of your brain lights up, the deeper the verbal, mental, emotional connection. So when you press on that part of your brain, it expands your capacity for pair bonding. So it expands the capacity of the couples stay together if they are mutually engaging with each other and pressing on that intellectual, emotional, void that needs to be filled and unknown. thing to understand about this part of your brain is there’s another time when it lights up. And it also lights up with cocaine and opioid withdrawal. Oh my gosh,

Damona  30:09  

I thought you were gonna say like in childbirth. Then you’re like, when you’re strung out on drugs.

Noelle Cordeaux 30:17  

Yeah. So you’re similar a breakup and you feel like you’re dying. That’s why you’re basically

Damona  30:26  

having like an opioid withdrawal.

Noelle Cordeaux 30:29  

Correct from the psychological emotional part of your brain that you need.

Damona 30:36  

So wait, how can we get over this though?

Noelle Cordeaux 30:40  

Like, like there’s no

Damona  30:42  

What is that? I don’t remember the name of that drug. You take like when your

Noelle Cordeaux 30:48  

lockers no yeah, you can’t.

Damona  30:51  

You can’t go to the hospital and be like, help me I’m having a relationship with Joe. Give me a shot. Yeah. So I do this. With with The tools that we have that are legally and responsibly available.

Noelle Cordeaux 31:04  

Yeah, so I mean, first let’s talk about maintaining your relationships. So you know, similar to when you first start dating the role of dopamine is really important. So doing novel and exciting things together, increase adrenaline equals increased opening. Prolonged eye gazing is something that really works to get those brain chemicals rolling in to keep everything pair bonded, increased. Dopamine, he also gives you more feelings of attraction towards each other. So the more does mean that you can direct towards each other, the more you’re going to feel attracted to each other touch also amplifies and exponentially impacts pair bonding. So the more actual touching that a couple engages in, the more likely they are to stay together. And that really specifically triggers the endorphin of oxytocin, which gives That feeling of attachment. And also working out increased testosterone equals increased romance. So staying mentally and physically stimulated is really what we’re talking about. So, and the intellectual piece can’t be discounted here because that’s your prefrontal cortex, the logic center of your brain, your reasoning, and so we need to keep that piece really super alive.

Damona  32:24  

That’s a lot to do. But I think we could start somewhere we can start small. And just understanding like I said at the beginning of this conversation, just first understanding what factors are at work is the beginning of that process. But I know through journey, you You not only coach people and help people understand all of these factors and create a plan to move forward but you also are training other coaches to be able to to spread this message. Tell me a little bit about journey and why you have this mission. To to start this company.

Noelle Cordeaux 33:02  

Oh, sure. So, you know, journey coaching is a coaching collective. We have coaches from all over the world who have come through our training program to learn things similar to what we’re talking about today. It all starts with a brain. It all starts with, you know, how did we get here? What’s our evolutionary cycles? Let’s understand what makes us up. It’s not you, it’s your brain. We look at the difference between feelings and facts. And we train coaches based on graduate level evidence based work. The reason that we started our company is because when john and i, my business partner both started out 10 years ago, it was really hard to gain traction as a coach. And so we created the company in the community that we wish we had.

Damona  33:46  

That is wonderful. And yeah, I encourage anyone who is listening that thinks they might want to help other people in this way to check out journey and see how how they can begin this process because we need more We need more warriors of love and of truth and of authenticity and all the wonderful things that I know you teach in in this program. Before we go, Noel, we have questions that have been submitted to us from our listeners. So I would love for you to stick around and answer a few of those.

Noelle Cordeaux 34:20  

Absolutely.

Damona  34:25  

Welcome back to dates and mates. We are here doing your favorite segment and mine technically dating.

Noelle Cordeaux 34:33  

Technically.

Damona  34:35  

All right, no, no well Korto you are in the hot seat because we have questions that have been submitted from our listeners. This one comes to us from someone that says my date forgot about a date that we scheduled 24 hours ago. Last night we set a time place and everything and plan to get drinks after he got off work. Basically I waited at the place for 30 minutes. Send him a text to which he repeated Question mark. I got stood up and he’s so apologetic about it. But is this a red flag? He texted me Sorry I’m a total dick and I deserve to never be talked to again. But no explanation Noel or attempt to salvage? Is this a red flag People always ask me is this a red flag?

Noelle Cordeaux 35:19  

Yes. Red Flag. Yeah. Yes. You know, and really, you know, when we’re when we’re dating, one of the things that I always say to my coaches and my clients is, you know, it’s not about whether a certain behavior is good or bad. It’s what’s acceptable for your life. If it is fundamentally unacceptable for you to have someone not remember plans and to not give you an explanation, well, then this person’s behavior isn’t going to be a good fit.

Damona  35:52  

Yeah, I and I’m all for like giving people the benefit of the doubt. Like if they’re, look, I have I have goofed up. I’m pretty good with appointments but I have definitely goofed a couple of times and profusely apologized and said, Please like, Can I make it? How can I make it up to you?

Noelle Cordeaux 36:11  

But it sounds like

Damona  36:12  

from her response to his response to her, sorry, I’m a total dick and I deserve to never be talked to again. He’s not really making efforts to repair the relationship.

Noelle Cordeaux 36:24  

No, and it’s kind of a pass off. He’s abdicating responsibility. And instead of you know, owning it, he’s he’s linguistically forcing the choice for the other person to make the call. Yes, you deserve to or not be talked to again.

Damona  36:44  

Right. And I would bet, just based on this language, this is not the first time this has happened to him. No. Hmm. But then the question is, yeah, the question is, What can she do to avoid this happening again? Because I found like, my clients really don’t get stood up or ghosted, very often or at all. I can think of one in the last year. But do you have a system that you would tell your clients to make sure that people are showing up for them, and that they’re like honoring their time so that other people will honor it too.

Noelle Cordeaux 37:23  

I mean, very being very straightforward with what your ask is, you know, or what your expectations are at the beginning, that if communication is important, if promptness is important, if showing up is important, then let somebody know right up front, hey, this is important to me. And I’d like to see you and so if you’d like to see me you need to show up and communicate.

Damona  37:48  

Absolutely. And I was so I was when I was single. This was such a deal breaker for me. Like if someone canceled a date. That was just it and I, I want to make sure that like even though I said, I’m all for giving people the benefit of the doubt that it’s clear that I’m saying people, you teach people how to treat you. And I can think of so many instances where I was like really excited to go out with someone, but if they showed me who they were, I believe them right away, and I just was like, nope, we’re not gonna do this. And if she gives him the benefit of the doubt, she’s probably gonna end up with him not showing up for her down the road,

Noelle Cordeaux 38:26  

based on showing up in different ways.

Damona  38:30  

Yeah, you got me? Yep, exactly that Noel. Okay, one more question before you leave us for the day. This one comes to us from a fella who says, I’m seeing a woman who told me she doesn’t want to go deeper because she doesn’t want to risk losing our friendship. Should I keep trying? Or is this a way a soft way to let me down?

Noelle Cordeaux 38:54  

I have so many questions

Damona  38:57  

based on the information that we have you He’s been friend zoned. That’s for sure. But is it salvageable? Should he move on? What do you think?

Noelle Cordeaux 39:07  

So when he when he says, I have been seeing a woman, what does that mean? You know, are we talking about

Damona  39:14  

Like, like seeing her face? He’s seeing her face. Okay.

Noelle Cordeaux 39:19  

Yeah, I think

Damona  39:20  

it’s this casual like this epidemic of just hanging out dates or just like this Not knowing, you know, it’s people just not being in a specific dating situation, but we’re just hanging out.

Noelle Cordeaux 39:37  

Yeah. Okay, so So this sounds like a boundary has been set that this woman has said, you know, what we have going on right now is where I want to stay.

Damona  39:47  

Yeah, it could be a Friends with Benefits situation, too.

Noelle Cordeaux 39:49  

Yeah.

Noelle Cordeaux 39:52  

It could be and you know, I mean, honesty is always the best policy like if and it’s always worth a shot, you know, to say to somebody Hey, You’ve told me where your boundary is a See you, I hear you and I respect it. And here’s what I would like. So I’m going to put it on the table. And here’s the threshold that I have for continuing to see you and not having my needs met. So there’s gonna come a time when this casual thing ends, because I want more. And if you want more, let’s discuss it.

Damona  40:22  

Okay, now tell me from a, a chemical brain chemistry perspective. When, first of all, if a woman puts you in the friendzone, can you get out of it? And is it different from the man? And then also, if they are in a Friends with Benefits situation, and they’re like, let’s say they are having sex, can you? Can you still like form a relationship with someone else if you’re having sex with a different person?

Noelle Cordeaux 40:57  

Okay, we’re going to take these questions separately, the break Because the brain cams are all different. Yes. So

Noelle Cordeaux 41:05  

if if you are seeing someone and you have been friendzone. So this is not my opinion, this is like purely from a chemical perspective. So, dudes typically won’t give up the hunt because they’re attracted physically to the symmetry. Women’s minds can be changed because of the deepening emotional intimacy and capacity for support and connection.

Noelle Cordeaux 41:34  

Hmm.

Damona  41:36  

Go on.

Noelle Cordeaux 41:39  

So,

Damona  41:40  

so if she’s so she’s friendzone him, it’s,

Noelle Cordeaux 41:46  

it’s possible that she could change her mind. It is possible that she could change her mind. What would you have to do? Yeah, what would I do? A he would have to I mean, so we’re talking about that part. of your brain that lights up with pair bonding. So from an emotional intimacy and intellectual intimacy perspective, press on that part of the brain because that’s actually the more important part that the emotional connection supersedes the physical connection for women.

Damona  42:16  

Okay, so we’re not saying do that, but we’re saying, if you are friendzone, and you’d like to change it, and you want to devote the next three to six months of your life to try to do that, rather than to pursuing someone else, there you go. There, you know. Now we have to talk about friends with benefits from a chemical perspective, having sex with someone that’s easy and available, even if they are not somebody that you want to pair bond with. Does that reduce your ability to make another relationship happen?

Noelle Cordeaux 42:49  

Yes.

Damona  42:51  

Tell me more.

Noelle Cordeaux 42:53  

So, once you get into that zone, where you’re you’re being in To meet with somebody you’re so remember romantic love is a motivation system. That motivation system wants to keep kicking and complete itself. It goes through phases. It wants to go through the first 12 to 18 months and then it wants to go into the next four year chapter and then the four year chapter after that, basically looking at procreation as the goal. So I know that everybody listening to me is like, I don’t want to have a baby and like your brain and body don’t know that, right? Like, your brain and body are trying to override all of your actual desires. So what you’re doing is setting yourself up for a world of hurt on both sides for you and your partner. And that’s not an opinion that’s just the chemical facts. So when when stuff starts to not work or when love is unrequited or when that emotional piece doesn’t deepen, then we get into a whole series of other chemical reactions that scramble your brain.

Damona  44:08  

That sounds painful.

Noelle Cordeaux 44:10  

It is. Yeah, it’s stage one is protest. And that’s where we have frustration, restlessness, obsession, panic stress. And then stage two is despair and resignation. And that’s when we have depression.

Noelle Cordeaux 44:30  

Women withdraw socially and need to retell their story over and over again. men get angry and engage in risk taking behavior. Not my opinion, science.

Damona  44:43  

We can’t fight the science No. All right. Well, thank you for continuing to spread the good good word. If anyone listening is interested and exploring this world of coaching, you should check them out at journey coaching and that’s spelled j r n i Coaching comm or on the socials at journey coaching. Thank you so much for being here, Noel. It’s been awesome. Thank you. Thank you very much. I hope you enjoyed Episode 303 of dates and mates. And I hope I didn’t get too preachy on you about washing your hands and staying at home. But hey, somebody’s gotta say it. You can connect with me on all the socials. I’m still answering DMS and I’m taking questions for future dates and mates episodes. I’m at damona Hoffman on all the socials. Please connect with me. I love hearing from you guys. And we all could use a little extra community right now speaking of community, I’d love to have you as an official part of the dates and mates community on Patreon, my friends with benefits, get all my best goodies, especially that video training that I just released on how you can still be social distance dating. It’s so helpful, so juicy, I’m loving the feedback I’m getting from my current Patreon Patrons And friends with benefits. I’d love to have you in the club. Just go to patreon.com slash dates and mates. Until next week, I wish you good health and happy dating

 

Breaking Dating Patterns & Whelming: Love Month Part 4

YOU CAN BE OVERWHELMED, AND YOU CAN BE UNDERWHELMED, BUT CAN YOU JUST BE WHELMED?

It’s February and you know what that means – Valentine’s is upon us! And to celebrate the month of love, we’ll be doing something special. We have 4 of the top prior Dates & Mates guest love experts who will be joining me for the next 4 weeks. This is the final episode of our Love Month #5QFeb!

Back by popular demand is Mike Goldstein, a successful dating coach, public speaker, and author who has appeared on the Today Show, Reader’s Digest, The Star Ledger, and Shape Magazine. Through his BLOG EZ Dating Coach he has reached over 100,000 women.

He’s here to give us a whole new perspective on love that we haven’t heard yet!

More on that later, first we have headlines! 

DATING DISH (4:05)

Could your partner be snooping through your phone?

In their latest study, Whistleout determined that 50% of Americans look at their partner’s phones. Do you think this is okay?

The newest dating term: whelming

According to Cosmo, the newest way to ‘impress’ your match is by complaining about how many matches you have. Damona and Mike have thoughts. 

Read Damona’s Profile Polish in Shondaland!

via GIPHY

Are Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner getting back together?

In an interview with the New York Times, Ben Affleck explains that his divorce to Jennifer Garner was the biggest mistake of his life. Damona did some digging and it turns out that Ben’s family history with alcoholism could have contributed to the breakup patterns he might have inherited from his father. Damona and Mike weigh in.

via GIPHY

#5QFeb (20:32)

Damona asks Mike the 5 MOST IMPORTANT dating questions of our time:

  • What is the biggest challenge for daters today?
  • What is the best way to find love?
  • How can people change their patterns in love?
  • What are the elements of a strong, long lasting relationship?
  • Whose relationship do you admire and why?

via GIPHY

TECHNICALLY DATING (35:00)

via GIPHY

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • So I had a conversation with my guy and asked why he isn’t putting more time into our relationship. He’s busy and seems to be pulled in a lot of different directions. My question is: If I wait patiently, will that hurt me in the long run?
  • What does it mean when a guy says he does something because it’s funny? For example, my guy tells me other girls are flirting with him because he says he is being honest and he isn’t doing anything with them but he finds it cute that I get jealous. Is this a red flag?

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Are you feeling overwhelmed with dating and relationships and looking for a little more support? then you are the perfect person to become one of my Friends with Benefits.  

We just launched a special Patreon program for our listeners who want a little more love from Damona

What is Patreon?

Patreon is a platform that allows you to support creators like me to keep making helpful content that you want to hear and allow you to get amazing listener benefits by participating

Our page is Patreon.com/datesandmates

What will you get if you sign up?

A private facebook group where you can chat with me and other listeners of the show.

And you’ll have an opportunity to join me for private group coaching sessions.

Plus secret BTS content from our nearly 300 episodes of Dates & Mates.

And for my really special top-tier FWBs, you can even get a personalized dating profile analysis from me with tips tailored just for you on how to make a magnetic profile that draws the right kind of dates to you.

The Patreon is live on at patreon.com/datesandmates

And we have a special bonus for anyone who signs up at the Lover or VIP level – a free autographed copy of my book. But only if you sign up during the month of February.

Go to patreon.com/datesandmates to see which of tier is right for you. I look forward supporting you on a deeper level and inviting you inside the community as one of my Friends with Benefits.

 

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:12  

Happy love month lovers. This is episode four of our love month #5QFeb the five question February series during which I am interviewing your favorite dates and mates prior guests to ask the most pressing questions and love today. We are using the hashtag five q fab if you want to get in on the conversation. My guest for today is back by popular demand. Mike Goldstein is a successful dating coach. He’s a public speaker and also an author. You may have seen him on the Today Show in Reader’s Digest the star ledger or its Shape magazine. And through his blog, easy dating coach. He has reached over 100,000 surely more 200,000 just so many women Need help in dating and he’s here to help the men and women of the de tomates community, please give big smooches to Mike Goldstein,

Mike Goldstein  1:07  

thank you so much for having me. I’m so pumped to be here.

Damona  1:11  

I’m so glad you’re back. And this is a perfect time of year because we’re still like, we’re still feeling the energy of Valentine’s Day. And whether people listening had a great Valentine’s Day or one that they would rather forget. We want to keep people moving towards that, that road to love. Right? Yeah. And then we’ll also talk about this week’s headlines, including could your partner be snooping through your phone? And you can be overwhelmed. And you can be underwhelmed because you just be well, plus, our Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner getting back together could be now I don’t know. We’ll talk about that in a minute and then we’ll answer your questions like, should you wait around for a guy who’s super busy? And is it a red flag? If your boyfriend thinks you’re cute when you’re jealous. All that and more on today’s dates and mates. Mike, are you ready to do this?

Mike Goldstein  2:06  

Whoa, those are some great topics.

Damona  2:10  

Yeah, like we just surprised you. He knows what’s coming. He’s ready for you guys and he’s ready to do the dish. He’s dating dish. Whistle out did a survey on how much Americans look at their partners phones, and I’m talking about like, unapproved snooping, not just glancing over, but actually like cracking into their phones. they surveyed 1600 people from the ages of 15 and 55 about all aspects of cell phone privacy and snooping and romantic relationships. And it turns out that a lot of people 48% of women and 31% of men think snooping is okay, but people are worried Mike people are worried about things that their partner might see in their phone and Most people are worried about browser history texts, social media accounts. What do you think about cell phone privacy? I mean, this is just a factor in relationships today. Should you be able to look into your partner’s phone? Or is the phone like a barrier for privacy, something that should still remain secret and private?

Mike Goldstein  3:22  

Can I tell you a story?

Damona  3:23  

Of course, we have nothing but time. Oh, yes.

Mike Goldstein  3:26  

So Dimona, I was 25 years old, I had a girlfriend, and we were at a beach house at our beach house. And we were sleeping in bed, about to go to bed. And she’s looking at her phone. And I glance over. And there’s a message from a guy saying, Come over and it’s about 1am at night. Oh, no. But I am the most trusting human being on the planet. You may not know this about me. So she gave me some explanation like oh, it’s just our friend. Like He wants to drink more. And I was like, oh, that seems reasonable. And then I went to bed.

Damona  4:05  

But you had a little bit of suspicion. Surely, I had

Mike Goldstein  4:08  

a little bit, but I totally let it go. Because I just assumed I’m in love. She’s in love. Like we’re good.

Damona  4:14  

Oh, no, what happened?

Mike Goldstein  4:16  

Oh, well

Mike Goldstein  4:19  

while she was sleeping with it,

Damona  4:22  

did you ever confront her about the text? Because like looking at this survey, 38% of couples gotten a fight or broke up over something over snooping. So like, was there ever a conversation? Like, you know, that text didn’t quite sit well with me? Did you ever go back into her phone and be like, I’m gonna see if there are additional messages here.

Mike Goldstein  4:44  

No, I don’t believe in that. Like even through that through that story. Like privacy is important. And trust is important. So any partner I’m with, like they can do whatever they want. And I want to be in a relationship. I know and I feel safe for them to. They can be private, they can do whatever they want. I know we’re together. There’s no cheating. We’re good.

Damona  5:09  

Mike, you know what I love about that terrible story is that you still believe in love and you still have trust, like so many times people go through an experience like that, and then they think it means they can’t trust anybody again. But it was like that was one situation and it seems like you’re able to now separate her choices from the choices of whomever you’re in a relationship with from that point forward.

Mike Goldstein  5:35  

Yes, but to be fair, there was a lot of healing if you would have brought up her name probably for the first like four or five years after we broke up. You’d probably see my eyes like start to water like it definitely hit me. Yeah, but yeah, I’m over it now. But I alway

Damona  5:50  

give like a tip and one thing that you did to to heal and move on after that situation and trust again,

Mike Goldstein  5:59  

honestly, the Like so right after it happened and I thought I was gonna marry this woman, so I was crying my eyes out. You’re 25 I know.

Damona  6:08  

life ahead of you. This is true. Okay, you figure it out, though before.

Mike Goldstein  6:11  

Yeah. So I was crying my eyes out for three months straight. And then finally I picked up a copy of john gray men are from Mars, women are from Venus. And I realized I just didn’t understand women at all. And I realized like, I was a big part of the blame of why she was looking outside of a relationship. So that gave me a lot of clarity. So I guess for me it was what am i accountable for? What do I need to change? What do I need to work on? And then on top of that, now I’m saying like stop being sad, go do some things. Go play soccer, go to the gym, go see your friends. Go keep yourself busy.

Damona  6:47  

Yes, she would. One of the things that you might do be go on a dating app and start swiping. That is something that our next article is all About in Cosmo, they’re talking about a new dating trend called whelming. And this is when your matches complain to you about how many other matches they’re getting. So I know like, just just to recap the story that you told, when people get, they’re ready to move on. Sometimes they go full force into swiping, and they just swipe right on everybody because they want that instant gratification of like somebody likes me. But would you ever then complain about the number of matches that you’re getting? Because this seems to be an epidemic that’s happening?

Mike Goldstein  7:36  

So you’re telling me that I’m going to complain because so many women want to talk to me? Is that correct?

Damona  7:45  

That’s what people are doing and this is happening and you know, it’s happening for your clients as well like there. They must be I’m sure you’re helping them to be online dating masters, and then they’re getting are they getting overwhelmed by the matches.

Mike Goldstein  8:01  

Yes, some of them. Yeah.

Damona  8:03  

But they wouldn’t complain about it on the date because you told them not to.

Mike Goldstein  8:07  

Yeah, I don’t know what like, what is that?

Damona  8:10  

Well, the article also gave us some ways to cope if you’re feeling overwhelmed, because I think this is a symptom of this Paradox of Choice of feeling like there’s this endless supply of matches. And their tips are really good for for dating apps. They said, Be more selective. ration your screen time. Don’t rely on just dating apps. And I know that you’re you’re a fan of alternate ways of dating as well. Don’t swipe late at night. No, it’s like I say dating apps are sort of like Gremlins like don’t feed them after midnight. craziness. craziness ensues, that’s when you get the worst possible matches. And don’t take dating too seriously. What do you tell your clients about ways to reduce overwhelm when they’re using dating apps?

Mike Goldstein  8:57  

Yeah, this is so Important is, first of all, online dating needs to be a science experiment. Like try to leave your emotions to the side. I know like love is obviously a very emotional thing. But the actual online dating aspect science experiment, once you get to know someone, then emotions can get involved. But the strategy is, you need to pick three times a week that you’re going to go on. And if you’ve got a good system, like my clients are only doing half an hour, three times a week. So that’s manageable. It’s not taking over your life. So maybe it’s like Monday, Wednesday and Friday at eight o’clock I’m going on. The key is what folks are doing is that like, works kind of boring. Right now I’m going to hop on a dating app for a second. Oh, I got a match. Ooh, that’s not a fit. And then you repeat that sometimes one to 10 times a day. And you keep getting let down. versus if you’re going on once, you know every few days and you’re looking at maybe 510 20 at a time. Then you will manage your expectations of Okay, I got 10 Ooh, this one looks good. And then you don’t get upset about individually each nine times you got something bad, but you get excited about the one guy that actually makes sense for you, or, or woman, excuse me.

Damona  10:12  

I like that. And I think that’s good philosophy for any kind of online escape. Like, I know I do the same thing with with Facebook, I’ll be like, Oh, I just need to escape my kids and make it be crazy. I’m going to just escape into the world of Facebook for a while, but it does have the same effect. When you are using it for more of an entertainment purpose, then, you know, dating with strategy. I’d like to add one other thing that I think they did not touch on in the article that is really important. And that’s in making sure that your profile is the right profile to attract what you want. Like I did a profile Polish for Shonda land.com in the fall and the woman that I worked with she was gorgeous. She had tons of matches, but she was like, I’m so over. So over dating apps. And I hear this a lot of time from a lot of times from our database listeners as well. I said, Let’s be really specific in your profile. And I’m getting all of these things that you’re not from reading your profile and looking at the pictures that you chose, let’s change the the strategy and let your profile be sort of the online calling card for you that the resume that draw that draws the right applicants in and what she said in the article, and I will put the link in the show notes if you guys want to actually read it but what she said was after she did my profile updates, she got fewer messages, which you would think is a bad thing. But at the same time there were messages from more more serious guys at that lead actually today’s instead of leading to overwhelm and then she didn’t have to complain about the overwhelm on the One thing in this article last thing about this article that I want to get your take on is they said that single people should be using five to six dating apps, according to their study, to have the best chance of finding love, like based on how many matches people are getting that are that are actually turning into dates. Five to six dating apps. What What do you think about that?

Mike Goldstein  12:24  

No, thank you.

Mike Goldstein  12:29  

Dating should be fun. And that’s gonna like take over your life. Six dating apps. Yeah, that’s way too much. And I’m sure the listeners can tell us like, the same people are on them. So you don’t need to see them in

Mike Goldstein  12:45  

areas again, I swipe left on the last time.

Mike Goldstein  12:48  

Yeah, but like, we’ve talked about it before, but I love

Mike Goldstein  12:51  

three. No one

Mike Goldstein  12:53  

just wants get one good one like and don’t even do an app like maybe like a match. com Or like an okay Cupid and just build a great profile. I’m, as you know, I’m not a fan of apps because they’re not as robust in terms of profiles. Yes. So if we’re going to go on dates, I want to be more strategic with hopefully, looking at a man or a woman’s robust profile on match is like, Whoa, a lot of things are aligned. I’m excited. Because if we’re going to give up, you know, our Wednesday night and you know, get dressed up and makeup and whatever needs to happen, let us be excited, be excited. And let’s go on only one day a week, pick a good one. So even if you have 12 options, or four options or whatever, figure out which one is your most excited about and do one day a week, so you can still live your life and have six other nights where you’re doing whatever you want to do. And this will be a much more efficient, much more strategic way to get a partner.

Damona  13:50  

Yes, and then it’ll be more fun, you’ll be enjoying it more. Well, one person is not really enjoying his dating and relationship experience right now. is bad. Aflac he was he was promoting his new movie and gave a very raw and real interview to the New York Times. And he said that the divorce with Jennifer Garner is his biggest regret the biggest regret of his life. They announced their separation in 2015. You may remember it actually took another three years until they were divorced. And he fully admits they broke up because of his drinking, which it’s something that is also a part of his family history. Like his dad was an alcoholic and his relationship and his parents relationship broke up because of that. And it just makes me so sad to see him falling into that same pattern. And I want to know what you would tell a client who has a family history of something like, like divorce or like addiction, and how they can carve out a different path for themselves.

Mike Goldstein  15:00  

Whoa,

Damona  15:01  

we don’t know softball questions here. Mike Goldstein,

Mike Goldstein  15:04  

I don’t know if I’m qualified that, but I will try to answer that. Well,

Damona  15:07  

I’m sure you’ve dealt with this, like people that don’t have a positive relationship role model for themselves. You can still have a successful relationship and your history doesn’t have to be your future.

Mike Goldstein  15:20  

Absolutely. I mean, everyone has their own choice, right. So if you and usually what you see is when they have a parent that went so far off the deep end, and one thing they like, they don’t even want to touch that thing. Because they don’t want to repeat that. Yeah. So usually see that happen. But yeah, to your point, like everyone has the choice. You know, do whatever you need to do to be happy and to be healthy. And then you can have great partnership.

Damona  15:45  

What about this element when we are so quick now to be looking for perfect, that we’re very quick to move on. And, you know, I don’t think it was really Ben’s decision. Once he he went so far into his alcoholism. I think Jennifer just had to move on. But they ultimately divorced rather than working on the relationship and I and I’ve worked with other divorce clients that were like, I’d much rather now have stayed with the person in a relationship that was challenging, then be single again and have to basically start over. What do you think about that?

Mike Goldstein  16:29  

Well, I got a question is Jennifer Garner single these days or she lives she’s

Damona  16:34  

got a boyfriend, a guy named john Miller, who is kind of like a Ben doppelganger and way they’ve a lot of physical similarities. He’s a younger man to he’s 40. She’s 47 I ain’t mad about it, but that’s the answer.

Mike Goldstein  16:50  

Well, I think she handled it, how you’re supposed to handle it. If there’s alcoholism or something that’s got a disease. You kind of have to leave And if they get that sorted out and you’re still available and you know, they’re wildly healthy, and you want to revisit it, then go revisit it. But when they’re in that state, you’ve got to get out of there. You can’t fix them. Yeah. And they need to go fix themselves.

Damona  17:15  

All right, great insights. I told you know, softball questions here we have, we have the hard questions that are coming up in our next segment and five key fobs. So stick around. I’m here with Mike Goldstein, who’s also known as easy dating coach, right? Easy dating coach calm, so stick around for more dates and dates. We’re back with easy dating coach Mike Goldstein. And if you’ve been following all this month, we’ve been asking the same five questions of four different dating experts and we’re getting wildly different responses. So I’m going to kick it off Mike with our first question of five key fab. What is the biggest challenge for daters today.

Mike Goldstein  17:58  

Whoa, that’s a big One I told you,

Mike Goldstein  18:01  

you know, softball question, you know softball, Scott.

Damona  18:05  

It’s

Mike Goldstein  18:06  

datings freaking hard. And there’s no manual. And, you know, if we look back to 100 years ago in the 1950s, our parents were getting married mostly for security, finances, money, safety. And everyone told us, that’s what you’re supposed to do. Right? And now, you know, we’ve got women in the workforce, men in the workforce, boss, ladies to boss ladies, kicking butt. And it’s not like, hey, the man goes to work and the woman takes care of the kids now, it’s just confusing. And women have plenty of money and they’re kicking butt. And now everyone needs you guys. Exactly. Now, women are dating for love. And everyone’s dating for love, and it’s not security. And this is brand new. We’ve been on this earth for what, thousands, millions of years. And now finally, the only reason we’re getting together or the biggest reason is the Love, not just procreating and security.

Damona  19:04  

So what do you how do you see that changing the way that we operate in dating? If you’re dating for love? How’s your process different than if you’re dating for security? You spend more time probably right? Because you have to vet people.

Mike Goldstein  19:25  

Yeah, I mean, it’s definitely wildly different. Like, it’s just security. It’s like, Oh, he’s got a good job and he looks healthy. Yeah, okay. That’s all I need.

Damona  19:32  

And my parents know, like, that’s the other thing that’s different is now our dating pool has opened up to anyone possibly in the world who’s the best match for us? So now, in addition to dating for love, we’re dating to check like 17 boxes as opposed to like, Oh, well, I know him and he can be a good provider and he looks all right. Like I could wake up next to that for at least a few years. You know, it was like the criteria The criteria was lower. And the ability to meet someone that really matched us on multiple levels was, was also lower. You know, there’s a,

Mike Goldstein  20:11  

there’s just way more variables to contend with. And then the other thing is like our brain tries to mess with us. Because for a lot of us, we kind of look at chemistry as the be all sale instead of compatibility. So we’re like, man, when I’m with them, like, it’s just electric, and I feel something. And what the heck is that? Like, you’re gonna spend 50 years with someone you feel something for? No, like, what is this laundry list of things? You actually need to be happy with someone for 50 or however many years you’re going to be together?

Damona  20:40  

Can I tell you something really corny, please. As my husband and I have built our life together, I feel like the electricity has increased. Because it’s like, now we’re not just we’re not just checking boxes. We’re actually like, We’re actually intertwined in our lives. And as our lives have gotten bigger, like our love can actually get bigger. And I feel like there’s this feeling that, that that chemistry that you feel on whatever the first date or that people are, like desperately searching for is something that is on a decreasing scale, that it’s never going to be as high as when you first meet. And I would love to see what happens if people looked at it in the inverse, like, it can only build from here if you’re with the right person, that you’re that you’re matching with on like, much more on on more long term factors, right.

Mike Goldstein  21:46  

Yeah, I mean, that’s, no, it’s not. I mean, you’re talking to a love coach. So I’m like, that’s so beautiful. I love that. But back to your first question. That’s what I think is the biggest problem really is we’re not great. So we end up picking. And then once we fall in love, we’re like, All right, I’m gonna stick this out because it’s kind of close. You only get one person. So you got to make sure you pick the right person. So then when you are together for years, you are going in that upward trend of the relationship getting better, as opposed to what most people are, is it either flatlines or it’s going worse? Right? That’s a good point.

Damona  22:23  

Okay, you aced that first question, Mike. Second question, what is the best way to find love?

Mike Goldstein  22:33  

Whoo. That’s a big one to love, love, love. First off, you got to do a little work and make sure you’re like ready to rock and roll. Like you’ve got and there’s a lot to this. Because I have so many women that go to me, they’re like, I have everything on solid ground. Like I’ve got a great job. I’ve got this amazing house. And I’ve got this, like all these activities I do and this amazing Family like, That is wonderful. Do you know anything about dating? Or how the opposite sex works or whoever you’re trying to partner with? Like that really. So there’s a lot to it it’s one you got to have a good life but to you got to kind of help know how this whole dating, how to interact with whoever you’re going after works.

Damona  23:18  

And it’s also you have to have a growth mindset like this is something that I haven’t mastered. And I, I can actually learn something from my girl from the dates and maids podcast like there’s room for growth because the way you describe that, and I hear that a lot too, from listeners is like, it’s a close circle. like where’s the space if you have those five things? Where’s the space for another person to get in and actually enhance your life? How can you find love love? So let’s say you’ve done that and you have accepted that there is a skill set called dating that you are going to develop? Then what how do you find love

Mike Goldstein  23:58  

Wow. Then you got to decide, are you I want to be in my pajamas on a Friday night doing online dating and find love? Or are you the type that’s like, I’ve got the biggest personality on the planet. And I want to be out there just mingling, and meet someone. So who are you, and then go on to those routes.

Damona  24:18  

That’s, it’s good that you incorporate this idea of like figuring out what works best for you, because I’m big into online dating, obviously. And I think that that is just the best way in today’s world to to exponentially increase your dating options. But I also recognize it’s not necessarily the right fit for everyone. And if you’re doing it and it’s making you frustrated or you’re uncomfortable with it, and you’ve done the work that Mike is talking about to develop that skill set and get more comfortable and it still doesn’t work, but you have great success when you’re meeting people out on a Friday night at a bar then Why make your life easy? Right? Why do we always wait? Why do we always complicate things for ourselves?

Mike Goldstein  25:07  

Yeah, I don’t know if people can see a picture of me but I’m like mediocre looking. But online like if maybe if you’d call them the attractive women are the women that are good looking that have like seems their life together. They pretty much want nothing to do with me because I’m not like, I’m not everything marketable online. But when you put me in person, like sometimes I’m pretty charismatic. And then I’m able to actually kind of like hit probably above my league sometimes.

Damona  25:38  

So okay, I’m not even buying anything, you guys. He’s very attractive and he’s very charming. But for you, you feel more like in your element. It sounds like when you’re meeting people out in the world.

Mike Goldstein  25:52  

I mean, I come from a life prior to starting this like I came from a sales background. I’m like, pretty social. So yeah, that’s fun for me. But I’m also considered one of the top online dating experts in the country. So I, and I teach that and I work with, you know, eHarmony. Okay keeping match with their data. So I can go both routes, and I teach a lot of clients online dating, but I also want to be open to who I’m working with and what their skill set is.

Mike Goldstein  26:18  

Does that make sense? It makes total sense. So there’s no answer to question two.

Damona  26:23  

There’s no best way but the best way is just to start and to get clarity on what path is best for you. How can people change their patterns in love? We talked a little bit about this in the Ben Affleck of it all. But what if somebody just recognizes a dating pattern? Like I always date I always date jerks or my relationship somebody just told me. I think someone DM me on Instagram and they said, I always have this thing where I’m like, really into somebody at first and then three weeks, three or four weeks go by and I’m just not that interested anymore. If you recognize your pattern, which is the First step, right? Then what’s the next step to changing it?

Mike Goldstein  27:04  

Like the first you gotta like, go, why am I doing this? So like, get the explanation for yourself. I do this because x. So now that you know why they aren’t, so how do I solve this? Okay, when person does x, then I’m going to do this. So now that you’ve got a strategy, like, right, what happens? You like, Oh, it’s happening. I see it. Yeah. And then you do your plan. So you can’t do it in the moment because like, as you know, when you go on date for and you like, your heart’s beating fast, and you’ve got your butterflies, like, I don’t care about this anymore. Get your strategy while you’ve got, you know, cool, calm, collected head. And so then when it happens, you’re like, Wait a second, I wrote this down, I have a plan, and then you can implement it.

Damona  27:49  

I did a plan. I did a dating plan called Operation date. Nice guy. Some of the longtime listeners know this, but I haven’t talked about in in a few episodes. So I recognize my opinion. My pattern was dating, dating, like, these sort of creative types that weren’t really into commitment and that that just wasn’t the place that I was at in my life. And I was like, I need somebody that’s like, gonna just be nice to me. So I actually really retrain my brain, I retrain what I was attracted to, I slowed everything down to like, that’s the thing like the chemistry, you’re saying, that’s reactive, as opposed to responsive of like, Okay, I’m taking this in. And I know that my instinct is to do this. But what’s better for me is to do

Mike Goldstein  28:37  

that

Damona  28:39  

And if you can create that space, to give yourself time to respond, instead of just reacting to whatever you’re feeling in the moment, then I think that can put you on a different path and work for me

Mike Goldstein  28:54  

and it can work for you too. I love that that’s such a smart way to do it. And that that’s solves, like probably 99% of the problem, right? There’s if you implement that, exactly,

Damona  29:05  

I just couldn’t, I couldn’t do it anymore. I couldn’t date those kind of guys anymore. And I couldn’t accept that kind of behavior. Like there’s also what what are you accepting in your life? Right? Like, what are what what do you want? And then what are you letting be okay? And they’re at a certain point, you have to if you want to change your pattern, I’d say you have to, you have to recognize it. And then you have to choose not to do it anymore.

Mike Goldstein  29:32  

Yeah, just to give folks some clarity on this. It’s freaking hard, because our brain actually tells us the exact opposite. They did a study, I think it was like five years ago, where they attach people’s brains while they were dating people to see what triggered and really we just kept. The reason we keep dating the same people is something trigger triggers in the amygdala every time we date the exact same person. And it’s basically comfort. We feel comfortable because it’s like, oh, last time, I dated profile, who it’s the same profile, I feel comfortable. Let me go that route. And we’ll just keep repeating that for. And I have clients that have been repeating that literally for 50 years when they keep dating the exact same person, because it’s comfortable. So you really do need to kind of like smack yourself in the head and be like, Wait a second. It’s why am I feeling comfortable? Is there something here? That’s not healthy for me?

Damona  30:22  

Yeah, what am I reacting to? Because it does feel different. When you do it differently. It feels different. And it’s just sort of like, like a fitness routine, right? If you is when you start it, you’re like, Oh, this sucks. This is really hard, and this feels uncomfortable. And then you get into it. And then you see things changing, and your lifestyle is changing. And you’re like, Oh, actually, this isn’t as hard as it used to be. But you have to get over that hump. Okay, I have more questions for you, Mick. Question number four is what are the elements of a strong, long lasting relationship?

Mike Goldstein  30:58  

Can I tell a story about the last one You have nothing

Damona  31:00  

but stories. Yes, you can tell I don’t want to keep going. No, no. Go ahead. Go ahead. We like your stories.

Mike Goldstein  31:07  

Okay. Um, so my old client, Isabella, she had pattern issues. She had actually abuse she came to me from an abusive relationship and was like, think of like, 40 year old 44 year old woman like battered, like very abusive relationship. She’s like, but I’m, I’ve healed I’m ready to go like beautiful. We’re going to start dating men that treat you well. She’s like, you’re absolutely right. We sure are. She starts dating, we, we send messages. We’re sending messages to guys. We send a message to this guy. He wants to go on a date. She comes back from the first date. She goes Mike. I’m not sexually attracted to this guy it at all. I said, Okay. On a zero to 10 scale. How was the conversation? Like a nine or a 10?

Damona  31:53  

Like, oh, that’s pretty good.

Mike Goldstein  31:55  

Pretty good. Would you go on another date with him? I guess so. Yeah. I gotta Second day. Hey Isabella, are you attracted to him yet? Nope, not at all. No attraction. You guys kiss? No. Okay. Day 45 you still gonna go out with them? Yeah, go. How’s the conversation? Oh, it’s a 10 really like me super smart. comes back from date eight. She goes, Mike. Nick is the sexiest man alive. What changed? He finally kissed her on date eight.

Damona  32:29  

Oh my gosh. Wow, what a nice guy. He waited quite a while. Now a lot of people would read into that too and would think, Oh, well, he doesn’t really like me that much because so much of attraction is also like feeling that the other person is attracted to you. But she didn’t do that she kept going out like most of my clients don’t get past eight three if they’re not feeling something.

Mike Goldstein  32:50  

I know. But if the conversations like at least at eight. I say give these guys a chance because this was the nice guy. The You know, super smart like he’s written I think like 10 books, college professor like PhD, just like a little socially not great, but great guy. And he was planning these amazing dates. And he probably, you know, didn’t have that much experience sexually. So he’s figuring it out a little bit.

Damona  33:16  

Well, and it’s also like that slow love thing that I talked about a lot on the show, like real chemistry develops over time. And so as she got to know him better, and as she trusted him more, and as he saw her, and she saw him for who they truly were, then she was able to feel attraction on a deeper level. And it’s way better than that, like, just initial like hubba hubba. Okay, we’re gonna do fourth question. I loved your story. Thank you. What are the elements of a strong, long lasting relationship?

Mike Goldstein  33:54  

Whoo, I’m really you need one thing. Let’s make this simple. Another science Study, they hook people up, that will have been married from anywhere from like 20 to 50 years that are self proclaimed happy marriages and see what triggers. And these people in happy relationships, the magdala triggered when they were giving, when both parties were givers within the relationship, that’s a happy relationship. If one person is not a giver, and chooses to give, these were unhappy marriages. So that was the one thing they found that needs to be there for a marriage to be happy, you know, 2050 years in,

Damona  34:36  

they have to both feel like they’re givers or feel like they’ve been given too.

Mike Goldstein  34:40  

So both just need to be givers. So like you

Damona  34:43  

have to actually be giving, you have to actually have to do it is what

Mike Goldstein  34:48  

you’re saying. You know, obviously, you know, the Five Love Languages was a big book. So you need to figure out what your partner wants to receive. But yeah, you need to go give like whether it’s Hey, damona you’ve had a tough day. I’m gonna make you you know Chicken tonight or whatever? Find out what

Damona  35:02  

Yeah, every day. That is definitely I am an acts of service gal. Interestingly as we’re talking about the five love like languages, which if you guys don’t know it, definitely look it up. I don’t have like an affiliate link or anything, you can just go check it out. But, um, I found when my husband and I like both did the quiz that we actually had the same exact first three love languages. And I was like, That explains it that explains why it’s so easy. Do you think there’s any value in trying to look for someone with I mean, it just happened to be that way. And part of me is like, Well, we’ve been together so long. I wonder if our love languages started to overlap or something? Or if we always were the same love language. Is there any benefit in trying to figure out the love language early on and match for that, or is that doing too much?

Mike Goldstein  35:54  

That’s a great question. Honestly. So first of all, opposites do not attract. So if you can find people that are similar. That’s a home run. So I actually, when I’m dating, do ask that question pretty early on. And I do prefer someone who’s the same. It’s so much easier like I’m a 10 out of 10 words of affirmation.

Damona  36:14  

Oh my god, we’d never be compatible. Yeah, so someone tell you these things like Didn’t I just, I just got my husband’s car clean like didn’t that that didn’t show? Yeah. So but you find somebody that is very effusive and shares their their words of how they feel about you.

Mike Goldstein  36:33  

Yeah, like I’m so drawn to someone who’s gone. sounds terrible, but someone who gives me compliments. Like, I’m like, who tell me more. Yeah, I want to be a part of this,

Damona  36:41  

right? Because that that’s how you are hearing and receiving the love so so is the answer. Don’t look for that or just ask them so that then you can know how to deliver love in the way that the

Mike Goldstein  36:53  

I would say in an ideal world you do want to look for. I mean, like when I work with clients, I Like 36 things that we write down that are things that you probably wanted a partner and you’re not gonna get all of them, right. But you want to start getting a lot of them. And this is one of those things that would be part of my 36 of like, something to be cognizant of while you’re dating, so it’s a little more strategic. You’re not just, hey, when I’m on the date, we’re having fun, no, like, well, what are the answers to all these questions? Do these things fit? So to answer your question, yes, that would be great if they have it, but no, don’t make it a deal breaker. Just be cognizant of what they are and see as you’re dating, like, Okay, I know their acts of service. Let me put in that effort and do some acts of service and see if they’re a giver, are they doing what you need? And if you’re both giving and giving in the right way, are you happy? Is this working? That’s more important.

Damona  37:47  

That is very important. Okay, last question for five Keifa. Before we move on to questions from our listeners, this is kind of a personal question, Mike, whose relationship do you admire and why? Could be a celeb could be someone in Your life could be me. No.

Mike Goldstein  38:05  

I’m not gonna lie after hearing about you, I kind of that is change. No

Damona  38:11  

no, but tell, like Tell me for real, like if there’s a relationship role model that you’re like relationship goals.

Mike Goldstein  38:18  

So I’m totally seeing this from afar, so I’m just imagining most of it, but that’s probably the best relationship. Do you know Johnny and Lera Fernandez the dating coaches? Yeah. I’m like obsessed with them from afar like I do know them personally. But their Facebook just looks like they’re so in love. That’s everybody. Yeah, they look so happy and like so aligned and they’re like, eat the same foods. I think they have the same like vegan diet and there was just smiling and they almost like look the same to them. Like man, they look so happy and perfect.

Damona  38:50  

Well, it’s probably also they’re like living this. They’re living this life of like giving people dating and relationship advice and then they have to live by it too. So, I think that’s very beautiful. Love to have them on the show one day. Okay, we are going to take a short break. When we come back we have your questions, listeners, we have things that have been on your mind that you’ve submitted through Instagram and Twitter and email and we are going to be answering your questions right after this. Welcome back to dates and mates. This is our final segment where we answer your questions we call it technically dating.

Mike Goldstein  39:31  

Technically,

Damona  39:33  

this one comes to us from Instagram, this lady says so I had a conversation with my guy and asked why he isn’t putting more time into our relationship. He’s busy and seems to be pulled in a lot of different directions. My question is, if Should I wait patiently, and will that hurt me in the long run? Now, we all want guys that have stuff going on that are like living their best Life as well. But sounds like she doesn’t feel like she’s totally apart of all those other things.

Mike Goldstein  40:07  

Do we have any idea? Like, are they married? how long they’ve been dating?

Damona  40:10  

I, they’re dating. But I don’t know how long.

Mike Goldstein  40:15  

So I have different answers for different phases. If it’s very early on, and you really need a lot of interaction, maybe, you know, you can do a quick like, you know, it makes me so happy if you do x. And so you’re painting exactly what he needs to do. And you go tell him, you’d make me really happy if you did x and see what he delivers. And then when he does do something, you need to give him some appreciation. Like, thank you so much like it’s so great to hear from you. It’s so great to do this. I’m having so much fun. This is fabulous. Like I know you’re busy. Like I

Damona  40:52  

love spending time with you.

Mike Goldstein  40:54  

Yeah, like you’re amazing.

Damona  40:55  

That is so key, Mike and this is something that I feel like we haven’t talked about On the show, because I’ve said, you need to tell a guy how you want him to show up for you. And yet the other other side of that is to also acknowledge it when he does, because so many times we’re like, do this, do that. Do this, do that, but then you forget to close the loop. And that’s so key to know that like his actions, changed the way that you’re feeling.

Mike Goldstein  41:26  

Okay? Give them like a bonus tip,

Damona  41:28  

please.

Mike Goldstein  41:30  

Bonus Tip in your appreciation. If it’s just a little more valuable than the thing he actually did, he’s going to want to do it more. So like, for example, if he, you know, did the dishes, and you go, give him a big smooch and be like, Oh, I can’t believe you did the dishes like you’re so amazing. Thank you so much. He’s like, wow, all I did was like, clean a few dishes and I’m getting like this big bear hug and a smooch. I might be doing the dishes more often.

Damona  42:00  

Right, exactly. It totally works. I can tell you from experience. Also, let’s address she says, if I wait patiently, will that hurt me in the long run? She shouldn’t just be like waiting. Like, what time do you get off work like, right? What else can she do?

Mike Goldstein  42:16  

Yeah, definitely not waiting.

Mike Goldstein  42:19  

Because you’re valuable. But being strategic and having a conversation with him at the right time, like not like in the middle of his workday when he maybe in the meeting or something. But hey, would it be possible to talk to you and you get a moment and then you know, he brings you up when he’s free. And you say, You’re so awesome. And I love spending time with you. It makes me so happy if we could do something x or, or I would love to hear from you more. See you. It makes me so happy when I get to do X with you.

Mike Goldstein  42:50  

And then see how he responds. Right?

Mike Goldstein  42:55  

Because maybe he can make some time for you. Maybe he doesn’t realize and

Damona  43:00  

Maybe it’s not his love language like maybe your love language is quality time. And he thought it was acts of service or something like that. And he did all these things, but he didn’t realize that it wasn’t connecting for you. I have another question for you, Mike. This one comes to us from one of our friends with benefits from the Patreon club. She says what does it mean when a guy says he does something because it’s funny. For example, my guy tells me other girls are flirting with him because he says he’s just being honest. And he isn’t doing anything with him with them. But he finds a cute that I get jealous. Is this a red flag?

Mike Goldstein  43:39  

Whoa.

Mike Goldstein  43:41  

finds a cute one. She’s just funny. cute and funny.

Damona  43:47  

What do you say my

Mike Goldstein  43:48  

sounds like he’s almost like deflecting her feelings.

Mike Goldstein  43:52  

I’m like, I wonder if that person who asked that as feeling like he’s not listening or not. not concerned about her. I mean, I’m just projecting that. But you know, I think you need to present if it’s bothering you, it needs to be presented that way, like, hey, when you do act, you know, when you’re flirting with these girls, that makes me feel a little less special. And I don’t ever want to change who you are like, I love who you are. But I just wanted you to know how I feel and

Damona  44:23  

own your feelings and then see how he responds to that.

Mike Goldstein  44:26  

Because maybe he doesn’t if you’re feeling upset, maybe he doesn’t want you to feel that way.

Damona  44:30  

Yeah, I tend to not think of anything as a red flag. People are always like, what are the red flags and dating? I think it’s just like, what kind of response do you get when you express your truth and your feelings and what you need? I also wonder if he is doing that, because he’s not feeling like you’re seeing him enough. And he’s not feeling like you’re, you’re pumping him up, because why else would he go? If you’re in a relationship and he’s committed to you? Why would he need the validation from these other women flirting with him. And then why would he need to tell you? It’s just because he wants you to tell him? Like, those same things? Right? That’s a great point. Yeah. I mean, it’s a childish way to go about it. Yeah. But that’s probably what’s underneath.

Mike Goldstein  45:16  

Yeah, like the whole situation. I mean, it does lead to an amazing, such an amazing point. Just go sit down and be like, Hey, are you happy with in our relationship or what’s going on within our life can 

Damona  45:25  

do to make you feel more secure? Because I You don’t need to get validation from these other women if I’m doing what what you need, you know,

Mike Goldstein  45:35  

maybe he wants some flirting from his girlfriend and some words of appreciation and then he will be the other women in this room. I don’t see my girlfriend. She’s fantastic.

Damona  45:45  

I need to know your love language, honey. Okay, um, one bonus question because you’re a guy and because this came from a guy, our fan Jose, who’s been listening to the show for a really long time, he says what is it that women with children take care of guys better than those with women without children. Do you see this? Mike? I don’t know. Do you date ladies with children? I have? Do they? Do they take better care of you?

Mike Goldstein  46:15  

Probably.

Damona  46:16  

We’re just so used to take care. I mean, I even mom to earlier, I was like, you need to scoot your chair and let me put this. Let me put this microphone here. But like, that could be kind of dangerous thinking for Jose, right? Like, the fact that he’s already drawing a conclusion about a whole group of people based on a couple of experiences, right?

Mike Goldstein  46:38  

Yeah. And you know, it’s probably fun initially. It’s like, whew, someone’s doing stuff for me. And I’ve been there. I’ve had women that do stuff for me. But eventually, it’s like, hold on, she took the masculine role. And now what am I doing? How do I get to provide? Wait a second, I’m no longer sexually attracted to my mom who happens to be my girlfriend. You don’t want to date your mom. You don’t want them doing stuff. You want to be doing stuff for them, letting them kick their feet back. You know, mom is doing stuff for kids all day long, all day long. All day long. And then imagine back to the chicken and all night

Damona  47:12  

too. Okay. But I digress. Back to the Yeah, like, be the mayor chicken. Yeah, we’re

Mike Goldstein  47:19  

gonna, mom can arrest and all of a sudden she’s like, wow, this guy’s great. He’s doing stuff for me. I don’t have to do stuff for him. I got to kick my feet back. Cool. Maybe I owe him like a kiss or something or good conversation or I’m excited about this.

Damona  47:37  

I like that you didn’t go blue. I’m not good conversation. It’s like, oh, there’s other things you could do.

Mike Goldstein  47:43  

Yeah, sorry.

Damona  47:45  

We’re gonna keep it clean. For today’s episode. This is our last of five q fab. I love to hear which takeaways from the things the wonderful wisdom that Mike shared, really hit home for you. You can tweet me at five keys. With using the hashtag, you can tweet me using the hashtag five q fab, and share those insights and we’ll share them with the rest of our audience as well. Thank you so much for being here, Mike.

Mike Goldstein  48:11  

Thank you for having me.

Damona  48:13  

And you can catch up with Mike at easy dating coach calm and check out his YouTube channel. So awesome look for easy dating coach. And while you’re on his website, get his free gift. There’s so many free gifts but one that you think I think you might really be interested in is the video for how to get and keep a guy forever. We’ll put the link in the show notes. Thank you so much.

Mike Goldstein  48:36  

Thank you.

Damona  48:38  

I hope you enjoyed Episode 298 of dates and mates again, I’m at damona Hoffman on all the socials and I want to hear your love questions and maybe you need a little bit more support from me right now and you want to get in on some of those live coaching calls, check out our Patreon patreon.com slash dates and mates and see how I can support you in a bigger way in love will be back again next week when I will be talking to my co host from the TV series hashtag black love. Mr. jack daniels who has a big announcement about his own love life. And he’ll be talking with me about how dating has changed since black love. And since we began this podcast, we’re coming up on 300 episodes. So we’re going to ring in the 300th episode in a big way. We’ll see you next week. But until then, I wish you happy dating

Man Shopping & Psychotic Optimism: Love Month Part 3

BECOME A PSYCHOTIC OPTIMIST!

It’s February and you know what that means – Valentine’s is upon us! And to celebrate the month of love, we’ll be doing something special. We have 4 of the top prior Dates & Mates guest love experts who will be joining me for the next 4 weeks. This is episode three of our Love Month #5QFeb!

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Before we get into the show, just a quick shout out to our new listeners. We are so grateful to Apple Podcasts, Stitcher and Pandora for all featuring us or Valentine’s Day and we welcome you if you’re new to the show!

This week’s love expert is Bela Gandhi, founder of Smart Dating Academy and a weekly media correspondent. She is a relationship expert and has been featured on everything from Good Morning America, Steve Harvey, The Today Show, Fox & Friends and so much more!

She’s here to give us a whole new perspective on love that we haven’t heard yet!

More on that later, first we have headlines!

 

DATING DISH (4:05)

Why Shakira won’t marry her super hot baby daddy

According to their latest interview on 60 Minutes, Shakira and hunky soccer player Gerard Pique will not marry. ‘I don’t want him to see me as ‘The Wife’,” she says. “His lover, his girlfriend. It’s like a little forbidden fruit, you know? I wanna keep him on his toes. I want him to think that anything’s possible depending on behavior.” Is this manipulative behavior? Damona and Bela have thoughts.

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Could Twitter be the right dating app for you?

The Bold Italic published a personal piece from comedian Ginny Hogan where she explains how Twitter became a dating app for her! Damona breaks down how to know if it’s right for you.

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Everything you need to know about online dating today

From Damona’s most trusted resource, the Pew Research Center!

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#5QFeb (20:32)

Damona asks Bela the 5 MOST IMPORTANT dating questions of our time:

  • What is the biggest challenge for daters today?
  • What is the best way to find love?
  • How can people change their patterns in love?
  • What are the elements of a strong, long lasting relationship?
  • Whose relationship do you admire and why?

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TECHNICALLY DATING (35:00)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • What’s a reasonable age gap for dating? I started dating someone who is 7 years younger. My concern is we won’t be on the same page when we get down to having future talk. Is it worth dating someone that much younger?
  • Would you suggest speed dating? 
  • What do you do when you feel like giving up on dating?

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JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Are you feeling overwhelmed with dating and relationships and looking for a little more support? then you are the perfect person to become one of my Friends with Benefits.  

We just launched a special patreon program for our listeners who want a little more love from Damona

What is Patreon?

Patreon is a platform that allows you to support creators like me to keep making helpful content that you want to hear and allow you to get amazing listener benefits by participating

Our page is Patreon.com/datesandmates

What will you get if you sign up?

A private Facebook group where you can chat with me and other listeners of the show.

And you’ll have an opportunity to join me for private group coaching sessions.

Plus secret BTS content from our nearly 300 episodes of Dates & Mates.

And for my really special top-tier FWBs, you can even get a personalized dating profile analysis from me with tips tailored just for you on how to make a magnetic profile that draws the right kind of dates to you.

The Patreon is live on at patreon.com/datesandmates

And we have a special bonus for anyone who signs up at the Lover or VIP level – a free autographed copy of my book. But only if you sign up during the month of February.

Go to patreon.com/datesandmates to see which of tier is right for you. I look forward supporting you on a deeper level and inviting you inside the community as one of my Friends with Benefits.

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:00  

Are you feeling overwhelmed and frustrated with dating and relationships and looking for a little more support than you are the perfect person to become one of my friends with benefits? We just launched a special Patreon program for our listeners who want a little more love for me. What is Patreon? Patreon is a platform that allows you to support creators like me to keep making helpful content that you want to hear. And it allows you to get amazing listener benefits by participating. Our page is patreon.com slash dates and mates. What will you get if you sign up? First, we have a private Facebook group where you can chat with me and other listeners of the show. And you’ll have an opportunity to join me for private group coaching sessions. Plus, you’ll get secret behind the scenes content from our nearly 300 episodes of dates and mates. And for my really special top tier Fw B’s, you can even get a personalized dating profile. analysis from me, with tips tailored just for you on how to make a magnetic dating profile that draws in just the right kind of dates to you. The Patreon is live now@patreon.com, slash dates and mates. And we have a special bonus for anyone who signs up at the lover or VIP level during the month of February. You’ll also get a free autographed copy of my book but only if you sign up during this month of February. So go to patreon.com slash dates and mates to see which tier is right for you. I look forward to supporting you on a deeper level and inviting you inside the community. As one of my friends with benefits.

Bela Gandhi  1:41  

What does his text me so frustrated? He’s just not that into me. I’ve always been battle for attention.

Bela Gandhi  1:48  

I’m ready for miracles but

Bela Gandhi  1:49  

I’m sure my

Damona  1:54  

Modern love Made Simple. This is dates and mates with damona Hoffman happy love month lovers. This is episode three of our special five to five love month series during which I will interview your favorite dates and mates guests and ask the most pressing questions about love. Today, we’re using the hashtag five q fab if you want to get in on the conversation and let me know what the big takeaways are for you from today’s episode. Before we get into the show, I also just want to give a quick shout out to our new listeners. We are so grateful that Apple podcasts and Stitcher and Pandora are all featuring us for Valentine’s Day and have sent us a lot of new listeners. So we’re so glad to have you here. And I just want to welcome you if you are new to the show, I’m certified Dating Coach damona Hoffman and I’ve been coaching singles on online and offline dating for about 15 years. I’ve made a lot of marriages and I’ve seen a lot of dating changes during that time. And one dating expert who has been in the love trenches with me for a lot of that time is Bella Gandhi. Bella is a data And relationship expert. She’s the founder of smart dating Academy and she’s a weekly media correspondent. You’ve probably seen her on anything from Good Morning America to the Steve Harvey show the today show fox and friends and so much more. But she’s so much more than just that resume. She’s a dear friend of mine and I am excited to give big smooches and welcome Bella Gandhi.

Bela Gandhi  3:23  

I am so excited to be here. This is amazing.

Damona  3:27  

You are amazing. Your advice is amazing. And I’m really excited to do this five q fab. These questions with you today. But I’m also excited to cover these headlines we have a lot of news to talk about, including why Shakira won’t get married to her super hot baby daddy, and how you can use Twitter as your dating app, plus some new research on dating from my most trusted source. And then we’ll be answering your questions including what’s a reasonable age gap for dating and what are the odds you’ll meet your match at speed dating All that and more on today’s dates and mates. Bella, are you ready for love month?

Bela Gandhi  4:05  

Girl? I could not be more ready. No Well then let’s do this 

Damona  4:12  

Now Shakira is making headlines not just for her very hot performance in the Super Bowl halftime show, but also because she and her boyfriend Spanish soccer star, Gerard PK are not getting married anytime soon. Now before you go thinking this is just, this is just too hot people getting together. It’s no big deal. No, they have actually been together since 2011. And they have two children together. So these two are really bonded. They are central essentially living as a married couple but they do not want to get married. Bella, here’s why she says on an interview for 60 minutes she said I don’t want him to see me as the wife. I want him to see me as his lover his girlfriend. It’s Like a little forbidden fruit, you know, I want to keep him on. I want them to think that anything’s possible depending on behavior. What do you think about that statement in the fact that she is not putting any any value on marrying the father of her children?

Bela Gandhi  5:20  

You know, I think, I think she came out of a pretty famously bad divorce, before she got together with pk. So I think it’s really normal after you’ve been through something that can be so traumatic, especially as a celebrity and when somebody was trying to you know, you know, take a legitimate part of your fortune that didn’t belong to them. Like I understand why she would be kind of have a lot of trepidation about getting into another marriage situation.

Damona  5:51  

It is understandable. I’m a big fan of marriage, but I also think it’s not the right fit for everyone. I do find though, when you start to build your life together, you have two kids. You have a home together, that sometimes we, we lose sight of the big picture. And we just think like, well, I don’t want to go, I want to go against the grain I don’t want to do what what I did before or what other people are doing. And that sometimes, like, as much as we want it to be, like passion filled and romantic, we have to be a little bit practical and pragmatic.

Bela Gandhi  6:22  

Oh, I think that that’s, I think that that’s so true. And I think, you know, keeping that spark going in a marriage, right, or even a long term relationship, it takes a lot of work, it takes a lot of communication, it takes a lot of negotiation, and it takes a lot of intimacy to get there and sometimes, you know, the the issue can be in a relationship, you know, especially when people can be have, you know, multiple partners or not married is the question is how truly safe Do you feel in this relationship without that official commitment, right and that can drive trust issues as well. Yeah,

Damona  7:03  

I got a little nervous I must admit when she said I want to keep him on his toes. I want them to think that’s any anything’s possible depending on behavior, which I’m reading into me and like his behavior and that she could maybe withhold something from him if she doesn’t like what what he’s doing. And that felt a little bit manipulative to me, but maybe I’m reading it the wrong way.

Bela Gandhi  7:27  

Yeah, I mean, I think you can read it that way. For sure. You know, and I think it’s also based on like, Okay, if you end up you know, pulling the wool over my eyes if you end up doing what you know, some other athletes have done to the people they’re in relationships with cheated on them, then there’s consequences for that behavior and peace out. I’m out if you do that.

Damona  7:53  

Yes, she is. Setting a firm boundary. I expect nothing less of Shakira, but I do You like this idea of keeping the romance alive and like I think there’s a way that even if you are married or you’re considering getting married, you can still have that have that essence of the girlfriend the lover the the romantic interest and still keep keep that that energy alive even though you are now the wife.

Bela Gandhi  8:21  

Yes, again, it definitely takes work right and it is because in a sense, like safety and excitement are two opposite emotions right? And the more attach them the more safe you feel with your partner, which is amazing. And you know, it’s the best feeling in the world. It becomes hard to keep that spark. So it’s really working on the balance of the two which is possible it just again, it’s it’s not natural.

Damona  8:45  

Yes, it’s not natural. One thing that’s also not natural, is meeting people on Twitter. I read this really fun article in The Bold Italic which of course will link to in the show notes by a comedian named Jenny. Hope Again, who is just frustrated with Tinder she says she signs on and off multiple times throughout the day. But one thing that’s been consistent in her life is her Twitter presence and she actually uses it as a place to try out her jokes and really show her personality. And she gets a lot of dm slides, Bella, I hear you

Bela Gandhi  9:20  

I know, I got married on Twitter.

Damona  9:22  

I know a couple who got married on Twitter as well who will not on Twitter but from Twitter. They are tweet hearts. It can work but like this this article, they she posted a lot of her dm slides that were less than less than exciting to receive. And less than savory. Less than savory to read.

Bela Gandhi  9:49  

How

Damona  9:50  

How do you look at that in terms of Twitter being a dating, a place for dating and Twitter as she says being her dating app in a way? How do you filter Through those dm slides and not get overwhelmed or, or like disappointed and find the real gems, if you’re going to use Twitter in that, in that function. You

Bela Gandhi  10:11  

know, Don’t I look at the entire world is fair game for dating, right? Whether it’s Twitter or Instagram, whether it’s work, whether it’s church, the synagogue, the train, you can meet great people everywhere. And the filtering mechanisms, ultimately, are going to be a little bit different just based on the context that you’ve met this person. But what what I liked about what she said is, you can really tell a lot about someone through reading their Twitter profile, and her Twitter profile was really thick. She had a lot and you could tell a lot about you could kind of make conclusions about her personality based on the things that she was tweeting. And you can also draw conclusions about other people based on what they’re tweeting. It’s like, in a sense, if you’re on Tinder or Bumble or match you can only look at that conversation that you’re having with that person. Here, you can look at the conversations that people are having with the world. Yes, it’s

Damona  11:08  

in a way, it’s taken down the filter of I’m here for dating, like people on dating apps always try to put their best dating face forward. But there’s so much more information if you can actually see that person in their natural habitat and what they would post on Twitter. It was a little confusing in that she’s a comedian. And she’s like, some of this stuff is basically just jokes. And so people are going to make certain assumptions, assumptions based on what they’ve seen on her Twitter profile. But it seems like overall, it’s been more successful for her than dating apps have been,

Bela Gandhi  11:44  

hey, if it works, keep doing it right. For some people. They meet on match for some people they meet on eHarmony Twitter, Instagram, I know you like me do this on a daily basis. You’ve seen it all. You’ve heard it all. Keep doing what works.

Damona  12:00  

I like that. And I like that it’s you’re not attaching meaning to a certain way of meeting someone. A lot of times people tell me Well, I don’t want my story that I tell my kids to be that we met on Twitter or Tinder or what have you. And ultimately, if you get the happy ending doesn’t necessarily matter where it comes from.

Bela Gandhi  12:19  

I hear it too to me. I’m like, then I don’t know that you’re truly ready to find love. Oh,

Bela Gandhi  12:28  

tough love. Yeah. Right. You should be open to meeting people anywhere whether you meet eyes across mangoes at Whole Foods, whether you meet them on Tinder or match or on the train wherever it is right that it’s finding the lid to your pot. There’s nothing better in life who cares where they came from? Be grateful for that outlet.

Damona  12:49  

Yes, well, I know you’ve been doing this a long time. As I have. I’ve I’ve written the way from online dating to dating apps and one source that I always look to for research on this area is the Pew Research Center. And they just released the 10 facts about online dating in America that I don’t think anything is shock is going to shock you or I, but it might shock some people that that now 45% of people are saying that dating apps are positive experiences, but they say they’ve had frustrations. Now, the majority of people under 30. Well, almost 50% of people under 30 have used a dating site or dating app. And those numbers are also growing in the 30 to 49 and the 50 plus group. So it’s really becoming a much more accepted way of dating then when I began coaching singles on dating apps before and people were like,

Bela Gandhi  13:47  

I don’t want to do that.

Damona  13:48  

What are you seeing as someone that’s also been in this space for a long time, in terms of attitudes around dating, and dating online?

Bela Gandhi  13:58  

You know, I think there’s a certain reason Ignatius

Bela Gandhi  14:02  

people are resigned to it like they know that they need to do it. And it’s just the way life works. I don’t know that anybody comes to me, particularly jazzed about mind dating. But you know, I look at dating that with three major pipelines I do you meet somebody in real life, you get set up with them, or you’re using a site or an app to meet people, it really boils down to those three. So if you don’t use technology, you’ve just eliminated one major pipeline of candidates.

Damona  14:32  

Yeah. And the pipeline that really keeps growing. I mean, when I began doing this, they would say like, one in six relationships started with a dating site. And now those numbers are looking like more like one and four and possibly even one in three. I think the numbers actually underreported. So that’s really the trend. And even though you’re not maybe excited to use a dating app, I think sometimes people assign more meetings. To the vehicle, then they do intention to the process. Do you know what I mean by that?

Bela Gandhi  15:06  

Yeah, absolutely. It’s like, well, I don’t want to do the online dating. I said, Do you want to find love? Then you need to do the data. Do you want to do the dating? Most people don’t want to do the dating, right? They want to Amazon Prime there, mate. You know, I want to check off 17 boxes. He should be this tall. He should make this much money. He should be this funny. And I’d like him delivered prime to my mailbox.

Damona  15:29  

Yeah, I used to think that I actually felt that way about online dating for I still feel that way about online dating. I would call it man shopping. And I really feel like I ordered up my husband, but you know, I had to make a few returns. And that’s just part of the process. Sometimes you buy something it doesn’t really fit. So you got to take it back.

Bela Gandhi  15:47  

Exactly. It’s like Goldilocks man. She had to sit in three chairs before she found the one that was just right.

Damona  15:53  

Yes, yes, exactly. Just like Goldilocks. We’re all Goldilocks out here. What do you think in terms of the The qualities or the values that people are looking at, according to the Pew study, people were were focused on things like the type of relationship that the person was looking for whether or not they have children, hobbies and interests, religious beliefs. I’m going in, in descending order, racial or ethnic background, occupation, height still in there. And political affiliation. Those are all factors that people are sorting based on. Do you think we’re focusing on the wrong things right now?

Bela Gandhi  16:30  

You know, I think that we’re focusing on quantitative things, right? Things that you can put numbers to things that you can assign values to things that are that things that seem easy, right? height, interest, religion, race, political affiliation, right. But ultimately, it’s the qualitative stuff that is the beauty of relationships.

Damona  16:52  

Yes. So maybe it’s the maybe the maybe the religious beliefs if that’s really core to who you are. Maybe like the Children that’s kind of a hard thing to overlook if they have children and you’re not into that, but the superficial stuff like what’s your take on height? I feel like I keep going around and around with clients about the importance of height. What do you say to women that that are like must be six to our taller?

Bela Gandhi  17:20  

Now I tell them you’re kind of dating from your cave woman self like I get. we’re wired that way right? There’s evolution. 200,000 years humans haven’t evolved very much. And women still preference traits that they did you know back in the caveman days like I want you to be big caveman who can go out to jungle kill buffalo drag buffalo home to feed me and children. But I really rationally in today’s day and age, size doesn’t really matter height doesn’t really matter. If you look at the statistics, only 12% of men in this country are over six feet tall. The average American man take it A cross white, black, Hispanic, Asian is between five, eight and five, nine.

Damona  18:06  

And that’s a perfectly good height for most women who are what average five for the average American

Bela Gandhi  18:11  

woman. It’s about 5455. You know, and six feet tall. I tell my clients like, think about, I just put 100 age appropriate men in the room. Okay? Now if you say you want him to be six feet or over, you open the door, let 88 of them walk out of the room. Now you’re left with 12. That is what you did with just that one parameter.

Damona  18:36  

That is so interesting when you look at it that way and you really see the numbers of your dating pool going down and then and then all of the other filters that we put on it, suddenly we’re like there’s one guy or less

Bela Gandhi  18:48  

that we may be looking, it’s a percentage multiplier. Exactly. So if you have 12 guys left in the room that are six feet taller over, then if you’re like, I’d like him to be white and I’d like him to be Halfway right? There’s nobody left.

Damona  19:04  

What can people do to expand their dating pool right now beyond just taking away some of those, those filters that you and I feel are non essentials? What are some other ways that people can open up to love,

Bela Gandhi  19:18  

you know, with every inch that you come down closer to your height, I’m five, three on a really big hair day. And my husband’s five, six on a really big hair day. Right? And, and the closer you can come to your own height, every inch screens in hundreds, if not thousands of good prospective candidates for you. You know, so really think about you know, I tell my clients like everybody’s the same height line down. Yeah.

Damona  19:47  

That’s what everyone’s going for anyway.

Bela Gandhi  19:50  

Right. Right. And, and I get how we’re wired right and, but understand the math of what you’re looking for. Know what’s really non negotiable to you. To your point earlier, if religion is a big deal for you, then that has to be in there, but you’ve got to be able to give on something else. Because if you do that percentage multiplier and you’re not getting good candidates in your pool, you might just be constraining too many parameters and the sites don’t have someone for you. If you’re not getting good matches, take a look at yourself and say, What if I asked for? Is it realistic based on the demographic on this site?

Damona  20:32  

Yes. Is it realistic and is it even really what I need? Yes, it really that important when you really think about the long term goals that you have and the values that you have and what you really need in a partner. Okay, we are going to take a quick break when we come back we’ll be doing these five q fab questions with Bella. So Bella, get ready because we’re going to go deep in the next segment, I’m ready. We are back with Bella Gandhi of smart Dating Academy. So if you’ve been following this month, we are asking five big questions of for dating experts and getting wildly different responses, but all very illuminating. So Bella, Here’s your first question for five q fab. What is the biggest challenge for daters today?

Bela Gandhi  21:23  

Man? I have to pick one. Just one. And like,

Damona  21:27  

Here, I’ll I’ll narrow it down. Not one of the ones that we’ve talked about before. In the first segment.

Bela Gandhi  21:34  

Yeah, I think relying too much on chemistry. Right. We feel like like there’s a lot in that one statement. I think that with dating apps and sites and this abundance of people that are seemingly out there for us, what happens is we go out on a date, and we’re not feeling fireworks chemistry butterflies were like men Let me see who else is in my inbox. I don’t think we’re a match. You know, when you throw that person back to the pond, it’s such a big mistake. For example, I knew my husband, we were friends for six years before there was a spark, right? And we work with our clients. I don’t care if you’re feeling chemistry on the first or second or third date because good love can be a slow burn. It’s such a mistake what people are doing today expecting to be bowled over electrified by a person. In fact, if my clients are feeling really heavy chemistry with somebody on the first date, it’s a total red flag to me it’s a red flag meaning I think this person that you have all this chemistry with me just remind you of someone that you dated that was bad for you.

Damona  22:42  

Oh, yeah, I remember you saying that on Good Morning America segment that that those heavy butterflies are actually a bad sign and not to keep going back to the same well, but I talked to a few weeks ago about love at first sight and how it can’t exist because you I don’t really know that other person but I never really thought about it from the perspective of it may be your reaction to that person reminding you of an of something familiar and we tend to attract the familiar, right? Even if it’s something that’s not good for us, we we tend to repeat

Bela Gandhi  23:17  

the same pattern. Hey, I believe there’s lust at first sight, but love at first sight know lust comes after lust, attraction, and then attachment and love,

Damona  23:28  

like those difference, like how is there a certain amount of time that it takes you think to develop that slow love?

Bela Gandhi  23:36  

Yeah, for sure. I mean, you have to, you have to grow emotionally intimate with the person, right? You have to feel like this person is good for you. They’re stable. They make you feel safe, secure. They’re a cheerleader for you. They’re supportive. They’re kind, they’re generous. They love your people like those things take time to unfold. And this is where so many people Fuck is, you know, I would say lust is nature’s way of tricking us into love and attachment. And you really have to vet who the hell you’re dating. Yeah,

Damona  24:11  

yeah, that’s it. That’s a easier said than done, you know, when we get caught up in the feelings and and then and it’s not even just the feelings Bella, we get caught up in the story, this that happy ending that we want. And the story that we’ve told ourselves he’s going to be six to he’s going to make this much money. He’s also like you said going to be like Catholic and this background and whatever. And then you get there and realize the story that you were telling yourself isn’t the story that’s in front of you. Yeah, question to the story into getting that happy ending even though the facts aren’t necessarily there in front of us.

Bela Gandhi  24:46  

And yeah, yeah. And it’s focused on the right things. I tell people be picky, but be picky about the right things. Be open to the story.

Damona  24:55  

Huh? Yeah, yes. And so and sometimes, the story goes in and unexpected directions and you have to be willing to, to go with the flow. So for those people that are still looking for their love story, here’s the second question, what is the best way to find love today?

Bela Gandhi  25:13  

Hey, now I’m going to hark back to the three wells that I talked about right in, in real life getting set up and going on online dates, right? I mean, the best way is to make a plan that includes all three of those pipelines, and then optimizing it, everything that like finding love, there’s nothing more important than you will ever do in your life, then find the right partner for you. And the best way to do it is to take those three pipelines into consideration and then make a plan you have to know where you are right? And then you have to know where you want to go. You need two points to have a path where I am and where I want to be. But it’s hard right it that that’s the

Damona  26:00  

Renee brown calls that’s the messy middle.

Bela Gandhi  26:03  

It’s the messy middle. It’s like anything, right? It’s like changing careers. It’s like starting a business. It’s like having children. The middle is always messy. Right? And the journey is never a straight line up. It’s a lot of mess in between ups downs, plateaus, downs, lower downs, high ups, right and coming back to the mean.

Damona  26:22  

Okay, so for those that have identified that they are not necessarily on the path that they want to be on. Our third question is What? How can people change their patterns in love?

Bela Gandhi  26:35  

intervention, you need help. It doesn’t come naturally. Right? You can an intervention, meaning you might go out and buy a book that resonates with you, if you’re a person that’s a DIY, or you can Google it, you can read it. You can put your plan together and do it then do it. Right. If not, you need a supportive team. Maybe it’s a therapist, you know, maybe it’s a village of friends. Maybe it’s a co You need to change patterns requires a lot of work, a lot of mindfulness and a lot of Conscious Dating.

Damona  27:09  

Oh, but that’s tough. Because that also, it does require an acknowledgement that that something is broken. And that’s the place that I find a lot of people get. Talk themselves out of, right? How do you know what the right next step should be like? I had someone who I think follows me on Twitter, who was like already for a dating plan. We’re talking about dating plan, and then all of a sudden, she’s like, actually, I just decided that I’m going to do a like a man cleanse and I’m going to have just no just no men this month instead. And it was like, Whoa, like in between day one, I wanted to do it day two, I am just actually going to retreat from the whole thing. How do you know what the right path is at the right time?

Bela Gandhi  28:01  

It just it depends on how you feel right? If the thought of going on a date excites you, then go on the man plan. If the thought of going on a date, you know, makes you want to vomit, then it’s time, man. It’s

Damona  28:15  

good. It’s a good point, like, Where are you right now. And so many times people come to me and they’re like, I’m just super frustrated with dating apps. And I feel like I’m banging my head against the wall. And I’m doing this than the other thing. And I just I hate it. I’m all about you dating from a healthy, happy place, right?

Bela Gandhi  28:34  

Look, if you’re tired of anything, it’s not going to work for you. You have to, you know, the mindset that I espouse is called psychotic optimism, right? You have to believe in your gut, in your toes. Every part of you, like love exists for me, it’s when it’s not an F. Right? And like once you start to adopt this mindset, side of you know, the FDA psychotic optimism, then you’re going to start to be in a good mindset today. If you’re telling yourself, you know, the bad stories, I’m too old. I’m too fat. I’m too damaged. There’s nobody good out there. How well do you think you’re going to date? Huh?

Damona  29:21  

Yeah. And you have to be dating from that place of psychotic optimism. But in a way that’s like faith in the face of it, even when does the story that you see doesn’t add up to that it’s just like having the faith in spite of what you might be getting right now and knowing that the right now is not necessarily the future to get a leap of faith.

Bela Gandhi  29:51  

Everything is a leap of faith right and it requires hope, massive amounts of hope, and hope springs eternal when you live Take on that mindset of love will come to me. It’s a when it’s not an if I’ve just guaranteed you guys that you’re going to find love. Now all you have to do is go out and date like hell define this person. So go forth and conquer.

Damona  30:16  

Yes, yes. Okay, so now we found the person. Now the fourth question is what are the elements of a strong, long lasting relationship?

Bela Gandhi  30:27  

commitment, shared commitment to each other. Right. And a shared partnership. You know, I, my husband and I have been married, it’ll be 23 years this year. And we have work committed to each other and we’re committed to each other’s happiness. And we’re committed to running this crazy business that we have called home. And yes, and being supportive of each other’s dreams and wishes and you know, being Continue to give more than you take and you cannot go wrong.

Damona  31:05  

Oh, I love that you said that give more than you take,

Bela Gandhi  31:07  

give more than you take and make a gratitude list about your partner, right? We talk a lot about gratitude and it’s linkage to happiness, right? It’s irrefutable, we all know it’s true. Make, you know, make a gratitude list about your partner. If you find yourself in that rut for those of you that might be in new relationships that are listening, or in relationships, think look at what this person does for you see them, notice them, tell them, watch your relationship change for the better.

Damona  31:41  

Hmm. I love that gratitude and everything. Gratitude, gratitude, also, and dating. That’s something I do with clients at the beginning of the process of making sure that they appreciate what they have, rather than focusing on what they don’t have. Yeah, I have one final question for you for five key fab. And that’s whose relationship do you admire? And why?

Bela Gandhi  32:02  

Well, you know, I am really lucky. I know we can’t pick our families, but I really will. I respect and admire the relationships of both sets of my parents, my own parents as well as my husband’s parents. Both of them are have been married 51 and 52 years respectively. And they have been through high highs. They’ve been through low lows. They have had children together, they have had success in careers they have had, you know, bankruptcies, they’ve had health scares, they’ve had people close to them die, and they have held each other’s hands through this journey called life.

Damona  32:47  

Do you think having a successful relationship yourself, how much do you think having that relationship role model in each of your parents impacted your ability to form a successful relationship and be securely attached?

Bela Gandhi  33:05  

Yeah, I think it’s really important. You know, I think that in general, our parents and the relationships that they modeled for us can have a profound impact on how we choose our own partners. Right? You can either repeat or you can repel. It’s usually one or the other.

Damona  33:22  

Hmm, yeah. And then there’s hope still, for those listening who, like me came from a divorced, divorced couple. There is hope, right?

Bela Gandhi  33:33  

Oh my gosh, you guys. I mean, every client of mine, we’ve had thousands of clients over the last decade. Most people come in with divorce, death, trauma, abuse, you know, one or two narcissistic parents. I believe me, I see the absolute beautiful, Rainbow laid and happy endings for people That’s why earlier when you asked what do people need, they need intervention with the right intervention and the right amount of hard work and doing things and being patient positive and perseverant, you can overcome that it does not have to be your destiny as well.

Damona  34:17  

Well, thank you for sharing your insights with us for five q fab. And for answering my questions, but that’s not all because our listeners have also sent in their questions and we are going to keep you keep you here for technically dating. How are you liking five q FEHB. This is a totally new format for love month and I want to know what you think of it so far. So you can tweet me at damona Hoffman with the hashtag five que FEHB FBB. And tell me what your big takeaways were from my interview with Bella. So she’s answered my questions, but now she’s going to answer yours. If you have a dating question. By the way, I love giving love Advice. And you can send me a question anytime on any platform at damona Hoffman or you can leave me a message through dates and maids.com or email me or send me a voicemail at 424-246-6255 I triple dog dare you because people are so scared to leave their voice. But I promise you, I won’t buy I’ll be compassionate as I always try to be on the show. But I would love to hear your voice. I’d love to have you submit a question via voicemail. So however your questions get to me, we will be answering them. We have three questions queued up for Bella to answer in the next segment. We are back with data mates and here’s what’s on your mind today. Every week we take questions that you’ve submitted through Instagram through Twitter in my email inbox, and we get the questions answered by highly qualified experts like Bella Gandhi. Okay, Bella, this one Lady asks, What is a reasonable age gap for dating? I started dating someone who is seven years younger. My concern is we won’t be on the same page when we get down to having future talk. Is it worth dating someone that much

Bela Gandhi  36:14  

younger? Look, I’d have to know what the ages you know, if one is 18 and the others 25. That’s a big age difference. But if one person is 35 and 42, those age differences whittle away as we get older,

Damona  36:28  

I did actually do a little follow up research and found out the ages are 33. And I think she said 20. She said 26. So there’s six years, almost seven, right? Yeah.

Bela Gandhi  36:40  

Not necessarily. I mean, it’s person specific. You know, I know the average age for men to get married in this country still 29 years old, right? So 26 is not a baby.

Damona  36:51  

Mm hmm. But at the same time, there are some questions that they should ask each other or figure out Throughout the process of dating about where they are in the timeline, right, 100% and

Bela Gandhi  37:04  

soon Don’t wait a year to ask those questions.

Damona  37:08  

Yeah, so that’s that. That’s something I just want to seize on for a minute in her question. She said, Is it worth dating someone that much younger? And to me that sounds like we’ll meet, you’re playing ahead to the end of the story. before you’ve you’ve actually read it. What do you think about that?

Bela Gandhi  37:28  

Yeah, you know, I have the conversation, right? You don’t catastrophize it just because it’s different than other people. Some of my best friends are, you know, one of my best friends has a husband who’s seven years younger than her and they’re now married and they have three kids.

Damona  37:44  

Yes. I found out today that Shakira has a boyfriend. I almost called him husband she would she would kill me. Sorry, Shakira. Her boyfriend is 10 years younger than her. She’s 43. He’s 33. So get it, girl. Get it girl. If it works, why not? But yeah, she’ll have to go through the process right of figuring out like not just not focusing so much on the age gap but in terms of future goals and the path that they’re on right

Bela Gandhi  38:12  

yeah, you like you know what if this goes well I would like to be engaged in a year and married in two years and I’m looking to have a couple of kids right so I’m not looking to drag this on for the next eight years. Like how do you feel about that? And having those direct conversations and he will

Damona  38:29  

run if he is not up for that he will run so fast Exactly.

Bela Gandhi  38:33  

If you’re the right person for him. He will stick around

Damona  38:38  

Yes, it’s amazing when when they feel ready to commit guys will commit but man when you when you try to force it. I know you fellas are like, Nah, we’re not down for that. I have a couple more questions Bella, before we let you go. This person this is a sometimes people messaged me on Instagram. Very simple. direct question. This one is would you suggest speed dating?

Bela Gandhi  39:05  

Hmm, sure, why not?

Bela Gandhi  39:10  

Why not? I have a client that got married through speed dating. Not a lot of them. But definitely, I can think of one off the top of my head. I like, you know, look, do whatever it takes for you to feel good about dating. And for some people, as part of their plan, they want to get out there. And they want to meet people IRL in real life. So if that’s you, go for it do the speed dating.

Damona  39:36  

Yeah, I find it funny. A lot of people will say to me that they, they don’t like online dating, but then when I suggest speed dating, that’s too much work. So it’s like somewhere in between. I don’t ever want to leave my couch and I can’t actually get dressed up to meet 10 guys that may not be a match for me. It’s like finding that middle ground. Sometimes very tricky. I found speed dating was more popular when I started doing this. And like I did some speed dating events that I hosted with, you know, speed dating companies like, it’s been a minute. It’s been like, you know, eight or 10 years, since that really seemed like a very popular option, but at the same time, it’s like it’s all in the pool, right? You get in the pool, and then you see who’s there and maybe what if your perfect person is there, and you just didn’t show up that day? Yeah, that’d be a bummer.

Bela Gandhi  40:34  

That would be a bummer.

Damona  40:36  

Yeah, so I suggest trying it sounds like we’re both on the same page there. Yeah. Love alright. Last question. Bella. What do you do when you feel like giving up on dating?

Bela Gandhi  40:47  

Become a psychotic optimist!

Bela Gandhi  40:54  

you have to know Look around you, right? Not every person That’s in a relationship is perfect size zero, you know, whatever it is you think it takes to get into a relationship and that you feel like you don’t have. And you have to know that this is what you’re wired for. You’re wired for love, right? And you just have to get back on the bike and keep doing it. If you need to take a break, go into do a 30 day dating, detox, that’s fine. And then by that, I mean shut it down. Right? Don’t like peek at your apps, like delete everything, and go into a total like, I’m going to rebuild myself and self care for that month, and really do the things that bring me joy, and make me feel good again and then go back into the dating pool.

Damona  41:45  

Yes, so now we’ve convinced everybody to stop dating. But then everything will be better later. No. Yeah, that’s like if you’re, if you’re at that place, you could stop dating But otherwise, you should keep keep moving forward. You should work Bella and smart dating Academy should keep listening to this podcast and become a psychotic optimist and then you’ll be all right. Amen. Thank you so much for being here Bella, I love having you for our love month five q FEHB. keep spreading the love out there in the world. Thank you for having

Bela Gandhi  42:15

You’re doing such great work.

Damona  42:18  

Thank you You too. If you love Bella Gandhi as much as I do, please follow her on Twitter at Bella Gandhi we’ll put the link in the show notes. You can also find her online at smart dating academy.com I hope you enjoyed Episode 297 of dates and mates coming up on that three hundo again, I’m at damona Hoffman on all of the socials and I really really do want to hear your love questions. Don’t forget to leave us a review on Apple podcasts or Stitcher or wherever you are listening to this show. We love our listeners. We love to know what you like about the show. What you want more of what You want less of so thank you so much for all of your feedback. Keep it coming. We will be back again next week with our final episode of this special love month series. We have easy dating coach Mike Goldstein, who will be giving us the male perspective on the five questions about love. Can’t wait for next week. Until then, I wish you happy dating

 

Being Intimidating & Taboo Topics: Love Month Part 1

VALENTINE’S DAY IS ALMOST HERE!

It’s February and you know what that means – Valentine’s Day is upon us! And to celebrate the month of love, we’ll be doing something special. We have 4 of the top prior Dates & Mates guest love experts who will be joining me for the next 4 weeks.

via GIPHY

We’ve been listening to the questions that you all have sent for Technically Dating and hearing the challenges that the media has asked me to comment on lately and devised the top 5 question about the state of romance today.

So each week in February you’ll hear me with a different love expert giving their unique perspective to the same big love dilemmas – I’m calling this series 5 Question February.

via GIPHY

This week, we’re joined by the FABULOUS Francesca Hogi!

Franny is a love and life coach for extraordinary people who happen to be single. She is a Match and Today Show love expert, and has been featured in multiple national publications such as Harper’s Bazaar, Marie Claire and Mens Health. 

Fun Fact: she was also a contestant on two seasons of the CBS reality show Survivor. Francesca is the co-host of the podcast Romantical and the host of the podcast Dear Franny. 

She’s here to give you the no nonsense answers that you need to hear.

More on that later, first we have headlines!

 

DATING DISH 

Is A$AP Rihanna’s rebound?

Rihanna may have found love in a hopeless place, or at least a rebound.

via GIPHY

The MOST TABOO Topic on dates

Seriously people, don’t talk about your breakups. It ain’t cute.

via GIPHY

Your guide to swipe safety this month

Are swipe apps really that dangerous?

via GIPHY

#5QFeb (14:60)

Damona asks Franny the 5 MOST IMPORTANT dating questions of our time:

  • What is the biggest challenge for daters today?
  • What is the best way to find love?
  • How can people change their patterns in love?
  • What are the elements of a strong, long lasting relationship?
  • Whose relationship do you admire and why?

 

TECHNICALLY DATING

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • IG – I’m a 46 year old divorcee. Should I pay for a dating app to get better results? I’ve been doing free apps and drawing blanks.
  • I’m a single mom by choice and I have newborn twins. When and how can I date?

 

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:17  

Welcome to dates invades your dating and relationships source for swipe season, Valentine’s Day divorcement and everything else that you need help navigating right now. It’s February and you know what that means Valentine’s Day is upon us and to celebrate the month of love. I’ll be doing something special. We have four of the top prior guests love experts from dates and mates who will be joining me for the next four weeks of episodes. I’ve been listening to the questions that you all have sent for technically dating and hearing the challenges that the media has asked me to comment on lately and devise the top four questions about the state of romance today. So each week in February, you’ll hear me with a different love expert giving their unique perspective on the same Big Love dilemmas. I’m calling this series for question February. But first I’m going to introduce my guest co host for today. Francesca hoagie is a love and life coach for extraordinary people who happen to be single. She’s a match and today’s show love expert and she’s been featured in multiple national publications such as Harper’s Bazaar Marie Claire, and men’s health funfact. She was also on two seasons of the CBS reality show survivor, and now she’s the co host of the podcast romantical and she has a new podcast called dear frannie. Let’s give big smooches to Francesca hoagie. Hey, welcome back to the show. Thank you for having me.

 

Franny  1:41  

damona I love being here. I love having

 

Damona  1:43  

you and I’m so excited for this month of love with you. And to cover these headlines including riana may have found love in a hopeless place, or at least a rebound. And the most absolutely most taboo topic on dates. will tell you what that is plus will give you the latest news on Swype safety for this year’s season of love. And then we’ll answer your questions including do paid dating apps yield better results. And how can you date if you’re a single mom with newborn twins?

 

Franny  2:17  

With great difficulty?

 

Damona  2:20  

Ready to do this? I’m so ready. Let’s do this. These dating dish, according to Page Six, riana and ASAP Rocky are reportedly dating. Now if you are late to the news, she was dating billionaire. That’s with a B, that’s gonna be a beautiful billionaire. Double be a son Jamil. I mean, let me tell you this man. This man had it together but it didn’t seem to work out for them. According to sources, they said that they just were living different lives and it just didn’t work. So

 

Franny  2:53  

people, they don’t buy you happiness. Well, I mean, they can buy you some a lot of things that can make you happy.

 

Franny  2:59  

True. That’s true. That’s true. But you need some other things too. But maybe ASAP Rocky has those things.

 

Franny  3:05  

Hopefully, actually, I think that first celebrities and you know, even though that guy is a billionaire, and he has a high public profile celebrities, and he’s beautiful, and he’s beautiful, it’s easier for celebrities to date other celebrities. And in general, sure,

 

Franny  3:19  

because there is Liberty

 

Franny  3:20  

because their lives are just so bizarre. And right, they just have a whole set of concerns that they have to deal with that. I don’t I think it’s hard for a non famous person to understand what it’s like to have to navigate both a relationship which can be obviously very challenging in even if you’re the most anonymous people in the world, you know, and then add on top of the fact that every move you make is being documented and speculated on and Oh yeah,

 

Damona  3:47  

people saw this they saw they were sharing a hotel suite in New York together. And just to your point about celebrities dating celebrities, ASAP Rocky has had quite a history of famous exes. He was with candled For a couple years, he was with Rita Ora, Iggy Azalea. He’s been linked to riana before there was this whole thing about him grabbing her button public a few years ago. scandalous, scandalous. But here’s the thing. She heard her sources people close to her saying like, Look, she just got out of this serious relationship. It’s just a rebound. She’s saying she’s trying to be single. She’s not looking for a serious relationship right now. Like Yeah, oh, girl can’t even

 

Franny  4:28  

lurking and being like, What are you guys doing in the suite together? I am. So

 

Franny  4:32  

I, you know, there’s there’s obviously benefits to being famous. But there’s so many drawbacks. And this is one of them. Like, you can’t just like hang out with your ex and like, get a little nookie. without, you know, strangers sitting around talking about it and speculating on it.

 

Damona  4:47  

That’s true. Just like we’re doing right now. Exactly. But I hope I hope she really finds love because I think she deserves it. And she’s had a rough go of it.

 

Franny  4:54  

Yeah, it’s hard. She’s such a boss, and she’s so busy. She’s juggling so many things. And I mean, think of like the confidence level A man has to have to be able to be with a woman who is like such a superstar. And then you add on top of just the time factor, like how do they make time for a relationship? You know? So there’s a lot of challenges there for

 

Damona  5:16  

a lot of our superstar ladies that are listening to this, this podcast that may be thinking, it’s really hard for me to find a match, like one element is sometimes it is intimidating when you have everything together. The guys that don’t approach you are the ones that don’t feel like they can handle all that. Yeah, so maybe that kind of rejection is not such a bad thing. And you should save yourself for Yeah, great term match.

 

Franny  5:40  

Oh, yeah. Anyone who’s intimidated by you is not for you. So he doesn’t have the competence, you know, but I do think that as women who might be perceived as being intimidating, it is worth thinking about. Okay, am I leading too much with my accomplishments, am I leading too much with it? And I don’t mean to say like, I want to be really clear about this, I don’t mean to dumb yourself down or pretend like, Oh, I just have a little company. And you

 

Franny  6:09  

know, I’m not saying that, but

 

Franny  6:10  

I think even just in your interactions with people, like most people go on dates, and they talk about their jobs, right? Which is like, generally like not, it’s not right for romance, right? Like, it’s not right for like connection. And I’ve seen this with women who they feel that men are intimidated by them by their sex because of their success. But then they also when they meet men, it’s kind of like they’re using their success as a little bit of a crutch, and they’re leaning into it as a kind of a thing to puff them up. And I don’t know, I think it’s kind of a subconscious thing that we can do sometimes. So

 

Damona  6:42  

well, it’s what’s giving you love back. So the thing that you’re successful at is the thing that’s giving you that that feedback and making you feel successful. So you then you lean into that when you’re on the dates and then you talk more about those things. But that’s not how that’s not how women really are meant to attract men. That’s not attractive to men that’s attractive to women who are looking for providers. And we’re talking about traditional gender roles. But I’m curious, as we were going through these headlines, what you should definitely not talk about on first dates. And there was an article in elite daily that talked about those who discussed breakups. Yeah, on first dates. I hear this all the time, too.

 

Franny  7:25  

Yeah. My feeling.

 

Damona  7:26  

My feeling is if you’re talking about a breakup on a first date, your first date is not going well.

 

Franny  7:33  

I agree. I don’t think it’s a good sign. We’re talking about breakups. Also just talking about not even like necessarily breakups, like you were in a relationship, just talking about how dating is going on the app and like, Oh, my God, yeah. So last week, I went on this date with this guy. I’m like, what, you know, why are you talking about that on your day, right? Yeah, no way I’m all about I really, really encourage people to set an intention when you go on a date, and put your Like setting an intention to, you know, see if you can spark a connection with that other person to just set an intention to just be present in that moment, share something of yourself, learn something new, just something that’s going to keep you really focused on the other person and the connection that you might be able to build because a lot of people go on dates and they feel like, oh, there was no spark. But then if you break down, what would you talk about? You talked about work you bring you talked about your ex, he talks about where you grew up, okay. Like where you went to school? Like, I mean, that’s not, that’s not that’s not I think you can do better.

 

Damona  8:34  

Yeah. And I feel that, of course, there are people that are going to be boring on dates that are going to be uncomfortable on dates that aren’t going to really inspire you, but it’s ultimately your responsibility to to take the conversation where you want it to go. Agreed. And if you are saying, Well, that was a boring day. Well, you were boring, some responsible Yeah, yeah. Making it boring yourself.

 

Franny  8:56  

Yeah. And if it means you have to think about questions ahead of time to Ask if it means like when you when you start talking about work, or you know, your date starts talking about work, you know, instead of asking them 20 questions about their boring accounting job that you don’t have any interest in, and they probably hate anyway, right? You know, say like, well, if you’re going to talk about work, you know, what do you love about what you do? Or if you could do anything, what would it be? Or what do you want to be when you were a kid, like just something to, you know, have it be something that’s more about what they care about and their values and what they dream of, you know, just there’s ways to hibbett conversation so that you’re going to a more a place that’s more likely to yield some real connection.

 

Damona  9:36  

I really love those tips and remembering that you, you can pivot, you don’t have to stay on track track that is leading you to a boring conversation, and you can do it gently.

 

Franny  9:48  

You don’t have to be like, let’s not talk about this anymore. This is boring. Don’t say that. Right? Like you can do it really gently. It’s a skill, but it’s a skill that you can develop and it’s it’s worth it’s worth it’s worth developing.

 

Damona  9:58  

Yeah, and you you really could change any conversation topic at any point just by leaning in and be like, you know what I’m really curious about. And then the other person will lean in and be like, Oh, yeah, body language and be like, well, I want to know what you’re curious about. Yes. And I love that so great. What did you dream of when you were a kid?

 

Franny  10:16  

which wouldn’t be what did you want to be when you were a little kid? Yeah. I’m

 

Damona  10:21  

queen or princess. Initially, and then I wanted to be an architect. I’m really into historic homes and, and design. And then I took drafting one on one and almost flunked out of high school. I’m really more interested in cheerleading. So I had to find something else to do with my life. Yeah. What about you? I wasn’t

 

Franny  10:44  

really a kid who had any strong sense of what I wanted to be when I grew up. But I do remember after I saw the movie, Wall Street, I wanted to be a corporate raider. No, really an actor I saw Top Gun I wanted to be a fighter pilot. Very briefly. I don’t know what this reveals about my person.

 

Damona  11:00  

You are inspired by the things you see.

 

Franny  11:02  

I guess what I think I think I was inspired by I don’t know, power.

 

Franny  11:07  

alarming, but um, yeah, I never really knew I never really knew

 

Damona  11:10  

while we’re, while we’re talking about power, the transfer of power. A lot of times with dating apps people tell me that they’re afraid of something happening to them. They’re afraid of dating safety, like people that are hungry for power that might take advantage of them. And there were some new features that Tinder rolled out to address this concern. They announced that they’re, they’re now using a panic button, you have to download a an additional app to get this. And here’s the catch that app actually sends data it shares your data with its your location. So they it’s the same technology that you that Uber uses, okay, it’s sharing your location with Facebook and a bunch of other apps and other data that you don’t necessarily have control over. Yeah, but I digress. It can alert the authorities if you are uncomfortable on a date.

 

Franny  12:08  

And then they all said also just use you have in the future if anyone has an iPhone and probably Android has the same feature you have there’s an emergency. You know, if you hit that side button

 

Damona  12:20  

I sit down. Yeah,

 

Franny  12:20  

I think Megan emerge. I think everyone has probably accidentally done this and you’re like, Oh, God.

 

Franny  12:27  

But dial but dial but yeah, you know, I think it’s good. It’s me.

 

Franny  12:30  

Well, you think that people?

 

Franny  12:33  

I don’t know if it’s necessary. Okay. I’ll tell you. I do think that, you know, Tinder in particular has has that reputation like, Oh, you can’t go on Tinder. Like, you know, it’s just for hookups. And there’s, you know, people looking to abduct you or you know, but I think that

 

Franny  12:49  

so we hear those stories. I mean, we hear those stories, but we hear like

 

Franny  12:54  

I don’t know, six of those stories a year

 

Damona  12:57  

and look at how many people are date and

 

Franny  12:58  

look at how many times 10s of millions of people are on Tinder. So it is a very, very, very, very uncommon occurrence. So obviously, you want to be smart, and their ways to be smart. And I find that generally when you’re actually paying attention, and you’re not, you know, maybe kind of ignoring things or hoping against hope because like, well, this person, their pictures are really great. So I just want to meet them, and you’re not, you know, you’re, you’re maybe ignoring some signs that there’s something a little off, or, you know, maybe they’re pressuring you, or they’re like, they want to meet really quickly, you know, or just things ideal, either something’s off, you know, or like, they’re insisting that they pick you up or you mean, like, just things like, just don’t, you know, it’s, it’s just important to be smart. And make sure when you’re, I don’t care which app you’re on, you know, you don’t know this person. And even if you meet somebody, you know, and you can meet somebody in church who turns out to be, you know, not a good person, right? So you just have to just exercise that common sense. We meet in a in a public place and place you feel comfortable. Be you know have your own transportation. Right. So you’re not relying on a stranger to pick you up or take you home. You know,

 

Damona  14:12  

so and that’s like meeting someone. And in any, in any setting Yeah, yeah, you don’t know them. They’re not checked out by, in fact, actually there was I went out with somebody that I met at a party through a friend and I was still like, something’s off about this guy. Even even then you don’t even know. Yeah, you don’t say don’t know, just be seeing this feature. They also added a photo Vera verification feature. That’s cool.

 

Franny  14:37  

That’s great. Yeah, so it’s already.

 

Damona  14:40  

Yeah, it’s using AI and then like, trusted people internally, to make sure that you are who you say you are. Yeah. Do we need that or is catfishing that much of a problem?

 

Franny  14:51  

I mean, I don’t think similar to the safety issue. catfishing is a problem but it’s usually whenever somebody has been captured When you look back, and you kind of look back at the messages, you look back at the profile, it’s not that hard to spot. Yeah, it’s really like, I mean, if you’re looking at somebody, and their profile is just like, oh my god, this is the most gorgeous person I’ve ever seen. And these model photos and like, you know, and things are looking, he was in the Navy, and like, you know, like, it’s just like, you know, it, you could do like a river. If you if you’re suspicious, you could do a reverse reverse image search, you know, in Google, you can take a picture from the app, and you can put it into Google and you can see where else it comes up. So usually the cat pictures they’re using stock photos or they’re using photos from you know, that are appearing lots of other places that you’re like, Oh, wait, this isn’t the same person

 

Damona  15:40  

and we want to believe the fantasy don’t mean frannie like want to believe Haha, yeah, this idea of the person, like so many times people right into the show, and they’re like, I am in love. I fell in love with this person. In fact, I just posted on my Instagram today that I don’t believe in it. In love at first sight. It’s a myth and somebody said, Well, maybe you just haven’t experienced it, huh? No. You don’t know that person. Right? I mean, you don’t know that person. You tell them

 

Franny  16:09  

you don’t know them. You don’t you? You? Well, that’s kind of a philosophical question. What

 

Franny  16:15  

is love?

 

Franny  16:16  

Love Is it can choose a lot. But I mean, yes, obviously when most people when they’re thinking it’s love at first sight, it’s just it’s lost its luster first. It’s chemistry. It’s Oh my god, this is finally the kind of person that I’m looking for. But you know, one big solution to catfishing is just meet them, meet them in person, right? Just meet them in person, because the person who has a million excuses why they can’t meet and oh, and I’m out of town and this and that, and it’s adding up. It’s like the you know, it’s pretty obvious if your gut is telling you it’s

 

Damona  16:47  

probably Lissa. What it Yes, yeah. And I think there’s a bigger issue of people not necessarily stealing other people’s photos. I know that is happening, but it’s more just people having false advertising. editing photos, which we announced a couple weeks ago Bumble is cutting down down on and and taking those photos off. But it’s more people just using old photos. Yeah, it’s always advertising or just not looking like themselves when you meet or just not being attractive to you like you can look at someone’s picture. I don’t know how many online dates I went on where I was like, oh, that person looks really hot. And you’re like, Oh, I just don’t feel it. I don’t feel

 

Franny  17:26  

it Are you are you were like, Oh, you can see it’s not a catfish. It’s like, Oh, this is you. But this is the best picture you have ever taken in your life.

 

Franny  17:36  

We’ve all done it. We’ve all

 

Franny  17:38  

done it. So I think if there’s anything that’s feeling off about someone’s profile, just ask yourself, if these photos weren’t as good if this person didn’t look as hot, or they didn’t have this job, or there’s something that I’m like really, really looking for would I still be excusing or ignoring an intuition that I have? And you know, just check in with yourself because it’s usually it’s because the people who are out there to deceive people, they know what to do they know the profile to put together, they know how to make themselves look so irresistible. They’re experts at it. They’re experts at it. So it’s like if somebody seems like really too good to be true, and then there’s something off about the communication and they’re not you know, trying to meet you in person are there you know, there’s something shady going on there just you gotta you gotta listen to your instincts and use your common sense and just say it’s, it’s a leap of faith to say, the person who was right for me is out there and I don’t have to waste my time hoping against hope with somebody who’s showing me already that there’s something not right here.

 

Damona  18:38  

Yes, you have to keep the faith. Love is out there for you. We will give you more hope later in this episode, and we’re doing this fun. Five question February. So when we come back, Franny is going to answer my five questions about the state of love relationships and romance. Today, so stick around.

 

Franny  19:03  

We are back with frannie. She hosts the dear frannie podcast and she has been a go to expert in media for years. So I know that she can tackle these big issues for five question February. And I’m really excited to hear these questions because I Can I just tell everyone, yeah, that you offered to show me the questions ahead of time. I said, No, don’t show me at a time. I just want to freestyle it. So let’s go.

 

Damona  19:28  

She’s not good. She can answer these questions on the fly. We’ll see. Okay, Francesca hoagie. What is the biggest challenge for traders today? Ooh,

 

Franny  19:39  

gosh, that’s a big question.

 

Franny  19:40  

I told you. Yeah.

 

Damona  19:42  

I know you can handle I can handle it. And you can break it down into chunks. Yeah, yeah. One question that you always Yeah. here from Pete.

 

Franny  19:50  

Um, I would say, Okay, well, there’s probably two things that initially comes to mind. One of the biggest challenges is that we have so much cultural messaging conditioning around romance that’s so terrible. And I’m talking about like the fairy tale industrial complex. And you know, there’s one perfect person and you’re going to know as soon as you see them. And as soon as you meet that perfect person, everything’s going to fall into place. And you’re either lucky in love Are you aren’t. So I think that kind of mindset that people have about romance in general is a huge, huge, huge obstacle to love and real connection. So there’s that. But then there’s also because of dating apps, and because of the proliferation of online dating, people have this sense that they have infinite choice. And it becomes this illusion that oh, well, I there’s something one little thing I don’t like about someone, I’ll just keep going because I’ll find that perfect person. So they’re related, right? It’s this idea that you’re going to know right away, and the person is going to be perfect, and then everything is going to fall into place. And just know that even though there are millions and millions of people on dating apps, all of those people are not Actually options for you, right? And not all of those people. You most people overestimate their ability to determine who is and who isn’t compatible for them, like in a very short amount of time. So people are very quick to dismiss someone because they’re like, Oh, no, like, Oh, I only want somebody who’s, you know, six too early, six feet tall, or like, you know, or just like, oh, like, he seems too nerdy. And I need somebody who’s that, you know, just all of these little things that I should. I’m going to quote another expert here. Michelle Jacoby, who I interviewed recently for my podcast, and she said something I was like, Oh, my God, this is so good. And she, she was talking about how she was in DC. And she was on a corner and she saw this father and daughter and they were just having this really lovely father daughter moment. And she was like, Oh, my God, that’s so sweet. Like, Oh, look at that bother. He really loves his daughter. It’s so sweet. And then she thought I was I was single, what would I think looking at that guy? And she said, Oh, I think well, he doesn’t really dress that well. He’s kind of dorky and, and it was like all this stuff. And then She realized that, you know, it’s like the opposite of beer goggles, like we put on these dating goggles. And when you have your dating goggles on, and you’re always looking for what’s wrong, and you’re always picking people apart, and I just think that’s so wise and so true. So I don’t I think maybe I’m going on a tangent, maybe I should have gotten these questions ahead of time.

 

Franny  22:20  

But I think, you know, people,

 

Franny  22:23  

people, and especially people who could should really kind of know better because they can look at their own dating history and their own dating success to kind of know, like, Oh, I’m maybe not as good at this as I think I am. Like, maybe I’m not as good at picking partners as I think I am. Maybe I’m not as good as making a snap decision about who is and who isn’t right for me. But oftentimes, people just want what they want. And they don’t stop to think like, Oh, well, why do I want that? And is that important? And what am I bringing to the table and, you know, what is the relationship I want to have and the people that I’m focusing on, are they even capable of being the kind of partner that I’m looking for? So

 

Damona  22:57  

I want to break this down a little bit because I I hear a lot. You I’m sure you get this to clients will come to me and they’ll say, well, I’ve been looking but I’m just really picky. Yes. When you hear I’m really picky. Yeah. What do you say to that?

 

Franny  23:13  

I, I think that Okay, first of all, I should be, I should just want to say that, obviously, you should be selective about who you,

 

Damona  23:20  

you know, have a relationship with. I mean, I, when I was dating, I was just not picking. Like you’re

 

Franny  23:28  

I just and I only say that because I think that sometimes when people hear, you know, dating experts, or coaches like us to say, like, you know, talk kind of criticize people for being overly picky, they’re like, Well, you know, you just want me to date some loser, just, you know, and it’s like, No, I don’t, I don’t want you to date somebody who isn’t a great fit for you. I don’t want you to date somebody who or be in a relationship with somebody, get into a relationship with someone unless you’re excited to be in a relationship and you have attraction and all those you know, so let’s I want to say that for anybody who’s like, shutting down here, stay with us. Stay with us. But when I hear I’m just really picky, that tells me that there is a vulnerability challenge and that they’re hiding behind a lot of pickiness in order to avoid having to, like be truly intimate with someone.

 

Franny  24:16  

Turn it off you guys.

 

Franny  24:18  

That’s my first indication. Yeah. And then sometimes people just really, I think, in dating, we’re so focused on this list of like, Okay, this person has these, all these trades, and you can have 1000 things on that list. But a, you need to go through all of those things and make sure that they actually have to do with your relationship with that person, which most of them don’t, right. And you have to make sure and then you have to be able to prioritize what those things are, right? Because you can have 1000 things but if you’re looking for them all in one person, that’s not a person that’s a unicorn, that’s a fantasy. So it’s about really understanding what are the most foundational things for you and really starting to sort from that place which makes A lot easier.

 

Damona  25:08  

And then let’s go into this Paradox of Choice because I hear this a lot in the media actually, that there are so many options today. Nobody wants to make any choices. And so then people are just choosing.

 

Franny  25:21  

Yeah, I’m not choosing anyone, right? Or most people in dating apps don’t even go on a date. So I’m sure you are familiar with that statistic. That’s

 

Damona  25:27  

a that is real. In my experience as a dating coach, my clients end up making selections. So I’m wondering what is different is it you think it’s just when you get to the point of you’re like, I need support with this, I’m going to hire a dating coach. And then we talk through the questions like, why am I not seeing with my clients this Paradox of Choice happening? Yeah, instead with my clients. They’ll work with me for three or four weeks and then they’re like, Oh my gosh, I already met somebody that I really like this be it Should I date other people? I mean, this has literally happened to the last clients that I had there. Like, should I stop now? I mean, should there should there maybe there’s somebody better out there but I don’t know this person seems pretty great. Yeah,

 

Franny  26:12  

well that well that’s because your clients and my clients are coming to us because they’re actually ready. And they’re and they’re open to listening. And I mean, I think for me, my clients same thing, they get to that place really quickly and it’s because once I say you can’t look at a dating app profile can’t look at a little two inch photo and you know 100 character bio and think you are able to determine whether or not you can be in a relationship with this person.

 

Damona  26:39  

So love at first sight is a myth and

 

Franny  26:43  

anyways,

 

Franny  26:46  

but so I think once you understand that, the purpose of swiping right on someone the purpose of going on a first date with someone is not that you’ve already decided that yes, this is a person I can see myself with forever. That’s too high of a bar is too unrealistic of a bar, and you will, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment with that bar. So I think for me, when I explain to my clients like, you know, when you’re looking at a profile, you’re just trying to decide like, Can I talk to this person for 10 minutes, because most of those people that that you match with, it’s never it’s not going to go beyond that 10 minutes, a lot of people it’s going to, you know, you’ll make your decision here. I mean, a lot of people, first of all response rates are not 100%. For anyone show, you’re never even not even all going to turn into conversations. A lot of those people are going to take themselves out of the running, because they’re going to you’re being open and then they’re going to say something or like, and now I’m closed. You know, they’re going to take themselves out of the running or they’re not serious about meeting or you know, all these things. So when we point that out to our clients, and we teach them like this is a tool This is not like a crystal ball, right? This is a tool and you have to use it like a tool. In this year. Success on this platform is going to be based on your strategy and your approach. And the decisions that you make, and you know, people are paying us money because they’re ready to meet someone. So they’re ready to hear that. Yeah, but the average date or, you know, the average data online never goes on a date. And that’s so true. And it’s not because they’re not millions of options, right?

 

Damona  28:14  

Just to add one more thing about love at first sight. When I first saw my profile, I actually did say, Oh, my God, where have you been? And I did, I was in love at first sight. But I was in love at first sight, probably 20 other times. Oh, yeah. just so happened that time really does love. Yeah, that’s why even though

 

Franny  28:37  

my mother says she, my father at first sight, they met IRL back in the day. Sure. But and she said she she walked she saw him walking across the room and she said she fell in love with him the first night for that even spoken to each other.

 

Damona  28:49  

But that’s happened to me too. And then it didn’t work out, you know? Yeah, no. question. Question one. Oh, my God. The second question. What do you think the Best way to find love is today.

 

Franny  29:02  

Hmm, I think the best, most important way to find love is to make sure that you have a love mindset that is conducive to it. And then honestly, it’s irrelevant like which app you’re on and all because it’ll be. It’s making its taking chance out of it and making it in evitt. In inevitability. I can’t say that word in every city.

 

Damona  29:21  

Okay, you said it yesterday. Do you think that people can meet offline now?

 

Franny  29:27  

Absolutely. Of course they can. Every time you leave your house, you have the potential to meet someone special. I met my boyfriend on the street,

 

Franny  29:33  

just on the streets walking home. Come on.

 

Franny  29:36  

I’ve met I’ve dated so many guys that I’ve met just out in the world, but it’s because I have an attitude. And I had had that attitude for a long time, which is that every time I leave my house, I have the potential to meet someone special and I believe that that’s your mantra. That’s my mantra. So like, why not

 

Damona  29:52  

wait but when you met him, are you looking down at your phone and I

 

Franny  29:56  

wasn’t looking along. I was not looking down at my phone. I was rushing because I was trying to make the lights across the street.

 

Franny  30:04  

I don’t have time, but sometimes we do that though. Yeah. Wait, what happened?

 

Franny  30:08  

So what happened was, um, he was with his brother. And we had all been in a screening a few blocks away and his brother recognized me from the screening. So as I was rushing by his brother said, Oh, hey, how’d you like the movie? And I was like, oh, oh, you guys were in there, too. Yeah. So then I so then I laid my panic button. So then I missed the light because I stopped to talk to them. But then I didn’t fall in love at first sight. But I did have this intuition. Once I started talking to my boyfriend. I did have this intuition. Just feel like I’m supposed to keep talking to this guy. I just feel like I’m supposed to keep talking to him. I did that came to my they came to me like very clearly.

 

Franny  30:45  

Yeah, yeah, that’s different than love it first.

 

Franny  30:48  

Yeah. I didn’t say that. I had fallen in love at first sight. I’m just saying I’m not gonna rule out the possibility that it can happen. It can happen and it does happen to you and my mother. At least

 

Damona  31:00  

I see I’m still not buying it.

 

Franny  31:01  

Okay, we don’t have to talk about.

 

Damona  31:03  

It took time for me to, to actually know him and love him.

 

Franny  31:09  

It took time for you to decide that this is a person that you were going to choose to love.

 

Franny  31:14  

Yes. Okay.

 

Franny  31:18  

Next time that takes is no kids.

 

Damona  31:20  

Okay, as we were talking about these mindset and beliefs. The third question is how can people change their patterns in love?

 

Franny  31:29  

Okay, well, the first thing is even recognize that you have a pattern, because a lot of people don’t see their patterns, or they believe that their patterns are just happening to them. So once you understand that you are the common denominator and your pattern, everyone has one, even if you don’t date at all, that’s still a pattern, right? So even if your if your pattern is you only get like mad crushes on unavailable people. That’s a pattern right? So everyone has a pattern. So when you see that they’re like, and then you You start to understand, oh, even if it’s happening on a subconscious level, like I am pulling the strings here. So when you that, like, I swear, that’s half the battle of just just identifying it. And then if you commit to it, then you can start to say, all right, well, if there’s some, if I’m doing this, how can I start to what can I start to do differently? Like, why am I drawn to people who aren’t into me? You know, why do I have a belief that people are cheaters? And if that because if I really believe that if you really believe that everybody is going to cheat, you’re going to always be attracted to cheaters. Sure. It’s amazing how this works. These beliefs are like, they are like, set it and forget it. So

 

Damona  32:40  

I’m curious about something you said earlier, when you met your boyfriend and you trusted your intuition and we talked about this. Yeah, we went deep on the dear frannie podcast, and I talked about my own experience with intuition and teaching people how to how to tap into here and here it yep. We have so much chatter down there that sometimes you can’t even hear the intuition. Yes. So is that an element

 

Franny  33:08  

of it, it is an element of it. There’s, if you if you really, if you start to really understand that we are co creators in all of our relationships, like, and, you know, it’s, it’s empowering really like, you know, this isn’t just happening to you, you’re not a victim. Right? And so, you may have had some experiences and some programming that happened that made you think that this is how relationships have to be. And in your mind, you think that you know, to be with somebody who say, doesn’t value you or doesn’t respect you, if there’s some belief there that that’s quote unquote, safe, because that’s what you’re used to. And that’s the message that you got at a young age or, you know, some traumatic experience. Then when you understand that, then it’s like, Okay, I need to go deeper in myself. Make sure that what I believe is possible for me is what I actually want. Because so many people are out here, they’re looking for love, and they’re looking for connection, and they’re looking for partnership, but they don’t really believe that they can have it. And if you don’t believe you can have it, you’re going to make yourself right about what you believe. And it’s, it’s so it’s really important to understand that so obviously, it’s a longer process. And you know, I know you have a process where you work with your clients through this, I have a process where I work with my clients through this, but honestly, the first step is just recognizing that you have a pattern and that you are pulling the strings and then to become determined to like get curious and figure out okay, why am I doing that and how can I stop?

 

Franny  34:37  

It doesn’t take long right? We

 

Franny  34:38  

can do you know, I’m sure you can do this. I’m sure you can help your clients work through this and like a couple of sessions.

 

Damona  34:43  

Well, yeah, I’m I’m interested in you said when you’re identifying that, that pattern, that it’s like you said you can people can self sabotage like you can still be acting like You deserve love and you want love. Then you self sabotage like, how do you know that that’s happening for you? So you identify Yeah, where that that block is because you’re like, I’m doing all the things like this is what I hear a lot from our listeners. I’m on all of the apps. I’m meeting people out I did my profile makeover. I did my personal makeover. I did my wrote a letter to my family. Yeah, and process that. And yet, I’m still getting this. Yeah.

 

Franny  35:32  

So it’s important to understand that

 

Franny  35:36  

the beliefs like the true beliefs that are really like what’s pulling the strings here, this, this resides on a subconscious level. So if I ask anyone, and I asked people this all the time, you know, like, I have myself a formula and you know, I work my clients through that and part of it is self worth. That’s a huge part. And every single person I asked, Do you believe that you are truly worthy of having the love the commitment, the intimacy, the fulfilling relationship that you’re looking for? Everyone’s like yes, instantly. Instant. Yes, hell yes. Everyone says yes. I’m like, Okay, great. I’m going to ask you the question again. And this time, I want you to take a deep breath. And I want you to close your eyes. And know that your brain is going to say yes. And we want to confirm with whatever comes up in your body that is a real Yes. And then just sit for a moment, just sit with that question for a moment and see what happens in your body. And 99% of the time, they’re like, Oh, actually, I got this, like, pit in my stomach, or this tightness in my chest. Or, you know, I had a client recently described it as they felt this heaviness or like, so there’s, like, our emotions, really, in our subconscious speaks to us through our bodies, which is why like getting into your body and having body awareness is actually like, it’s actually important. If you have you know, a lot of subconscious believes that it’s just important to check in. It’s just a check in because hey, if you ask yourself the question and your heart swells, and you feel relaxed and excited and you get that like juicy, warm feeling, then that’s a Amazing, you’re on the right track, right? But if it is anything less than that, you just want to check in with that and just say, Okay, if there is something in me that believes that I’m not worthy of having this, for whatever reason, don’t judge it just like, for whatever reason, then if I did believe I was worthy, what would I do right now? And just keep checking in with yourself just trying to like change your choice, just how would that change your choices and just it’s like, it’s just sort of starting to retrain yourself to understand that your logical brain is not the only thing that’s driving the train here. And so you’ve got to go a little deeper.

 

Damona  37:37  

Okay, I’m gonna give everyone like a secret advance. Notice that we’re going to be doing a workshop together. Yes, doing some of this mind body spirit connection in love. So it’s a little ways off. Yes, we will announce it when the time is right when the Registration is open, but if you like what what Franny is talking about, you’re going to go home. More when you work with us in person in May. Okay, there’s more questions. What are the elements of a strong, long lasting relationship? Oh, beautiful

 

Franny  38:11  

acceptance of yourself and the other person true vulnerability. So that’s really the risk, the ability to risk pain, right of opening yourself up and really going deep with another person, letting them see who you really are seeing who they really are. That’s the hardest part for me. I mean, I think, I think that vulnerability, like true vulnerability is often the last love block to fall for people. And they got like, so much they’ve worked on the belief they’ve worked on, you know, the acceptance they’ve worked on, you know, putting themselves out there, they work on all these things, but that vulnerability piece isn’t quite there. And so that’s why, you know, they keep on kind of bumping up against a pattern that’s like not serving them. I say that a lot. So acceptance, vulnerability. shared that values, yes, dancing, that’s really important. And I ended beyond values also just like a shared vision of your life, you know, like, what’s the kind of life that you want to lead, because, you know, if you are somebody who knows that you want to get married, and you want to have three kids, and you are continually dating people who are like, I don’t know, actually, I want my freedom, and I want to do this, and I want to do that, and I want to spend every weekend, I don’t know, campaign or, you know, like, you know, whatever it is, like you have to just understand, like, you know, you can do what many people have done throughout history, which is kind of force a square peg into a round hole. But you know, that’s not going to be a very fulfilling relationship. So

 

Damona  39:43  

yeah, and I think this is such a great time right now where you have the ability to choose Yeah, yeah, go a different way or to not need to get married to have that mean that you in a person are committed to one another or to date someone One of a different gender for the first time or to not, not date at all. Like, yeah, I have so many options that, especially for women were just not available to us, even if you even one generation. Yeah. Oh, yeah,

 

Franny  40:15  

absolutely. Yeah. So you know, so understanding that and then, you know, commitment, like being committed, like really committed that like, okay, we’re in this together, when challenges arise, we’re going to work through them together. And I’m not going to hightail it at the first sign of trouble, because trouble will always appear. Right? Like, it’s never going to be smooth sailing, and you just genuinely like each other, enjoying each other’s company. I think people underestimate that. Like, it’s not always going to be like, you know, fancy trips and romantic dinner. It’s like you’re just going to be sitting on the sofa a lot together.

 

Damona  40:50  

A lot enough.

 

Franny  40:51  

Yeah, we do.

 

Franny  40:53  

Like that. I love it. I also like I also like being out in the world,

 

Franny  40:58  

but also, I would say accident Well, we need the mix. Some people don’t some people want I want to, you know,

 

Damona  41:03  

I’m more of a out of the house person. But and my husband is definitely more of an introvert and like, cozy up in front of Netflix. But I’ll say also you and your partner don’t have to want the same want to do the same things all the same values like yeah, and ultimate goals for the future. Yeah.

 

Franny  41:24  

And even have some overlapping interests. Yeah, but not 100%

 

Damona  41:28  

I don’t want to watch soccer. I just don’t know. Yeah, that’s right. You get up early you watch soccer. My yoga.

 

Franny  41:39  

I’m not gonna go ride my bike up a mountain like him. People are like, oh, cuz my boyfriend’s very serious cyclists and people are like, Oh, do you ride? Do you ride with him? I’m like, No, why would I do that?

 

Franny  41:50  

Right. Exactly. Yeah, no interest.

 

Damona  41:52  

Yeah, but I feel like now because of dating apps and because of technology, being able to, to connect you to someone. That’s not just A couple of boxes but the checks a lot of boxes Now sometimes people expect them to check every box. Yeah.

 

Franny  42:07  

Oh, I can’t tell you how many people I set up. Even actually, a really good friend of mine said to me, she’s like, wow, I’m so impressed that you ever gave your boyfriend a chance because of this his cycling thing. She’s like, why? And she’s like, well, because you don’t cycle.

 

Damona  42:21  

Yeah, like, people say that about me. I’m like my husband, vegetarian. And people are like, how do you make it work? He doesn’t eat my food.

 

Franny  42:33  

It’s not hard. It’s not really that hard. It’s not hard and he wants somebody who has their own passions and their own interests, right. Like I think this is the whole like you complete me this goes back to what I was saying earlier about the fairy tale industrial complex, and you’re supposed to be this like, perfect, perfect match. And you want to spend every moment together and do everything to get no like that’s not the healthiest relationship. So you’re both coming as complete people and you’re complementing each other’s lives and you’re making each other’s lives better. And richer and more fun and exciting and you know, but you’re not. You know,

 

Damona  43:05  

there’s a difference between You complete me. And you duplicate me though to like, my husband does complete me like I’m complete, but he does fill in gaps of places that I need to work on and helps illuminate those areas where I want to be a better person. But we’re not we’re known as carbon, or carbon carbon copy. Yeah, I am curious, though. You’re for the fifth question. Whose relationship do you admire? And one and it could be a famous person or someone in your personal life? Yeah, tell us their story.

 

Franny  43:38  

is a good question. Um, well, I guess I’ll just take a famous example because I guess that’s easy shorthand for people. Um, I do admire Brock and Michelle.

 

Damona  43:48  

I knew you’re gonna say that. Oh, my gosh, her birthday photo and I did so sweet. I did so sweet. Woman, he

 

Franny  43:57  

really loves her. They’re very devoted to each other and I read her memoir, which and she goes, you know, really into detail about their relationship and their courtship and everything

 

Damona  44:06  

she was really trying to

 

Franny  44:09  

show you.

 

Franny  44:10  

Which, by the way, it’s interesting, though, as much as I admire their relationship, when I read her book, I was like, I never would have dated him, like I never would have. I would have started that I would have been like, yes, not gonna

 

Damona  44:20  

work. He was like a big dreamer. She, like had her life

 

Franny  44:22  

together. Yeah, he’s like, when they got married, and he’s like, hey, my mom rented me a house in Hawaii for two months to write my book. I’m gonna go, I know, I would have been like, Oh, no, I buy. But it works for them, you know, um, but I think but I kind of, I think that commitment, that sense of like, we have shared values, we love each other, we trust each other, we respect each other. And we are committed. So we are going to work through whatever challenges that arise because it’s worth it because that that love is so strong and that connection is so strong. So I think the fact that They just have true respect and trust for each other. And that’s not that’s, that’s rare. That’s rare. It’s really beautiful. And you can see it, you can’t fake that. You can’t fake it, but you can find it, you can find it, you can totally find it, but you can’t you can’t fake it. And, you know, especially not the kind of scrutiny that they’ve been under and what they’ve had to deal with as a couple and as a family and they just seem stronger than ever, especially now that they’re like out of the White House. Like they’re living their best

 

Damona  45:30  

lives. I know, I know. I’m so inspired by this beautiful and I’m inspired by you and answer to our five, four FEHB question. And I know you all have a lot of questions you have sent them into me and now Francesca is going to answer them. By the way, if you have a question. There are so many, many, many ways you can send them to me, you can DM me on any social platform and damona Hoffman leave me a message through dates and mates calm Or a voicemail at 424-246-6255 I don’t know why nobody wants to ever leave me a voicemail. Everybody shy of the voice I want to hear your voice You can call me call so now I had a guy that wrote it. It was like, I don’t you’re a married woman. I don’t want to bother you on foot. You guys. It’s my it’s my database. Yeah.

 

Franny  46:20  

Anytime a day anytime today.

 

Damona  46:26  

All right. We’re going to take a short break when we come back. We will be handling your questions in our next segment. Welcome back to day two mates. I’m here with Francesca hoagie. She is the host of the podcast, dear Franny, yes, among other things, and she’s also a wonderful dating coach and I know you’ll be able to knock it out of the park with these questions that we have today. The first one comes to us from Jillian she says I’m a 46 year old divorce I should I pay for a dating app to get better results. I’ve been doing free apps and drawing blanks. This is a complicated question. Yeah, you and I both collaborate with a lot of dating apps. And we both were part of the dating experts that match com brought in for their summit. So I’m always like, careful just to let people know, I’m not going to endorse one app or another specifically or dog one dating app, or Yes, but save for this 46 year old

 

Franny  47:26  

dog eHarmony bound to be honest, and commenting. I know that you don’t. That’s just me. I know. That’s me. That’s

 

Franny  47:37  

Do you think that the free apps are not going to work so well for her? I think that I think that if you are drawing a blank, I think there’s probably something more going on there. So I would be really curious to see your profile I would really be curious to see the story that you’re you’re that you’re telling with your with your photos and your bio, and I would be very good. curious to know your strategy. Because most people are really bad at online dating, and paying for a dating app or dating, you know, website or whatever is not going to solve your poor online dating problems. That’s a good point.

 

Damona  48:15  

I mean, I usually say you get what you’re paid what you pay for. So if you’re on a free app, you’re getting people that have, there’s no such a low barrier for entry. Like you’re getting any and everything. And you’re going to have to sort through a lot more. But at the same time, it’s a good testing space, right.

 

Franny  48:36  

But even that is not working there. But even the paid apps have free options. Like Yeah, every paid app has a free option. So just the fact that you’re seeing someone on a paid app doesn’t even mean they’re paying. So there’s that they can’t communicate with you know, so communicate. So that’s so that’s and I know that some people get frustrated because they do pay for an app and then they’re sending you know, they’re like I’m still have to send all the messages are people aren’t read, you know, like so it there’s still a lot I think because there are so many free apps. It’s really democratized online dating. If this was five years ago, there, I think there might have been more of a difference. Certainly if it was 10 years ago, there would have been a difference but in 2020. So like I said, I’m not, I’m not saying don’t pay for an app, I’m saying that make sure that you’re that you’re actually using the right strategy and telling the right story with your profile, because that’s going to yield you better results than you know, paying for any you know, you can pay for every dating app that’s paid and still not get have any luck. So I don’t think that so I guess my point is, I don’t think that just because somebody is paying for an app, it means that they’re more serious or they’re better at online dating.

 

Damona  49:47  

Good point. And I have to add one more message to Jillian because she mentioned that she’s a 46 year old divorce a beautiful and Jillian I don’t want you for one second to think that you can’t find Match because you’re over 40 or because maybe because you’ve been married before it Megan Markel can do it you can do. Or I don’t know if you have kids or whatever. But whatever beliefs like we were talking about earlier that may be attached to what that means to you to be a 46 year old divorcee. let that go.

 

Franny  50:17  

Yeah, let it go. It’s not at all a hindrance to you finding an amazing partner. And I actually think that it’s I think all of these things that a lot of people consider to be baggage are actually really great litmus test, because the person who’s like, Oh, God, you’ve got kids, oh, god, you’re divorced. Great. Now I’ve seen you shown me that you’re not for me. So just be really authentic and, and lead with who you are. And don’t feel self conscious about it. Like you’re looking for the people who are specifically into you, like I think, you know, trying to be generic and be like, oh, and just, you know, like, just trying to have these ideas of like, what’s going to make you have mass appeal? Like it’s not about having mass appeal. It’s about having specific appeal to the people that you want to meet. Exactly, yeah.

 

Damona  50:59  

Quality over quantity 100% we only have time for one more. We have more questions. I promise you all. I will answer more questions next week. But this one came in from your network. This person said I’m a single mom by choice and I have newborn twins, when and how can I date?

 

Franny  51:19  

So kind of what I said about the you know, really leaning in to your truth and not feeling self conscious about it. Look, if you’re a single mom with newborn twins, like is that going to weed out a lot of men? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And that’s good, because you’re a single mom with newborn twins. So you need to be with somebody who’s okay with that. So it’s, it’s definitely going to be a challenge is for you to prioritize the time and all of that, but if you can do it, and you’re motivated to do it, it can 100% be done. Also. I’m a mom, as you guys know, I’ve never had twins. My sister has twins

 

Damona  51:55  

actually was their birthday last month and it’s Lot having twins and having newborns like I could barely brush my hair. I can’t imagine trying to date in that state. So also, I feel like there’s the messaging we’re talking about, like the fantasies and the messaging that we get. There’s this messaging, like, if you are a woman and you’re single, you failed your broken, life didn’t work out for you. And so even like this woman who has made this choice to have kids, and is in this newborn phase, is hearing that message of like, she’s got to be out there dating.

 

Franny  52:35  

Yeah, yeah. I mean, when you’re ready, when you feel ready,

 

Franny  52:38  

ready when you feel the right time when you feel like

 

Franny  52:41  

okay, I have the time I have the bandwidth. That’s when the time is and you have you battle to be sure hair. Yeah, I think she does. She does have help. So she’s not like totally on her own. So I

 

Damona  52:53  

mean, I had I had a nanny and a husband. Yeah, and one Child and I could barely keep my keep my act together. So I think it might not be the right time. It may not

 

Franny  53:06  

be the right timing, but if you can brush your hair if you can find the time to, but again, I think I think it’s being a single mom and dating. I think it’s good because again, you weeding out the men who aren’t interested in dating a single mom and it’s I think it can be something that’s really clarifying for you. Like, you know, maybe you had a lot of distraction and you were like, Oh, it’s okay that he’s like blah blah blah and flaky. It’s okay that he you know, you might have when you were when before you had kids, now you have kids, you’re like, Oh, hell no, I need somebody who’s going to show up, be consistent, you know, really be a partner. understand the challenges that of being a single mom supporting me through them, and then the cream will really rise to the top in that situation. Hmm,

 

Damona  53:48  

that’s really good advice. Thank you so much for sharing that. Thank you. Thank you for being here. you for having me. I really appreciate you being our first victim. I mean, guess

 

Franny  54:01  

554 February and to

 

Franny  54:03  

listen to all these episodes and see who answered the questions better than me.

 

Damona  54:06  

It’s got your this is like tough mark to be. I’m really curious to see how it changes from different perspectives. But you know, I love having your your insights and your perspective on the show. So thank you for being

 

Franny  54:18  

you. Thank you so much damona

 

Damona  54:21  

You can find Franny on the socials at dear frannie and make sure you check out her podcast dear frannie on all your favorite social media platforms and by the way, she has something very special for you six love mindset hacks. We were talking about this mindset and she will help you work through it and rewrite your mindset on love. So you can find that at Francesca hoagie calm, of course, we’ll put the link in the show notes. Or you can just text love hacks to 44 222 that’s 44 222 and for those of you who want more support and love for Valentine’s Day We will be launching you ready for this? A Patreon Friends with Benefits Program. On Valentine’s Day February 14, you’ll get access to exclusive behind the scenes content from the seven years of the show, you can become a part of bonus content club which will include my podcast, video and book recommendations. And you’ll have an opportunity to join me for private group coaching sessions. Oh, and this for my really special top tier Fw B’s you can even get a dating profile analysis with tips tailored just for you on how to make your profile magnetic so that it draws in the right kind of dates. So I’ll tell you all about my new Patreon friends at benefits program on next week’s show. But in the meantime, get pumped. I can’t wait to have more opportunities to connect directly with each one of you. I hope you enjoyed Episode 295 of dates and dates again, I’m @DamonaHoffman on all the socials and I really want to hear Your love questions. Until next week, I wish you happy dating and happy almost Valentine’s Day.

 

Healthy Communication & Roasting for Romance

HEALTHY RESPONSES TO CONFLICT

This week is all about discerning healthy communication patterns in response to conflict in all your relationships. Conflict is going to happen no matter what. It’s normal. Whether you’re self-partnered, dating, or in a relationship it’s important to look inside take a moment to prepare for healthy conflict. 

Marla Mattenson is an internationally recognized relationship expert specializing in working with entrepreneurial couples using her background in neuroscience and mathematics. Over the course of her 25+ year career, Marla has helped more than 12,000 couples including Academy Award winners, NBA players, and Grammy Awards winners!

She’s here to give us all the answers on healthy communication!

More on that later, first we have headlines!

DATING DISH 

Are you and your partner headed for a breakup?

According to Elite Daily, 55% of couples see moving in together as a step towards marriage. According to Marla, if your partner is giving you more gifts than normal this is a SURE sign you’re headed for a breakup.

via GIPHY

Tim Tebow has tied the knot and FINALLY popped his cherry

Wedding Bells for Tim Tebow and Miss Universe Demi-Leigh Nel-Peters. No word yet on whether she’ll add another hyphen to her name.

Roasting for Romance?

Some new research from Appalachian State University indicates that roasting – sarcastic jabs at your partner – can actually be healthy and bring you and your partner closer together. Damona and Marla disagree.

via GIPHY

HEALTHY COMMUNICATION (15:30)

Marla and Damona go in-depth on exploring your childhood conflict when it comes to healthy communication:

  • Fight, Flight, or Freeze
  • It’s not your fault, it’s your biology
  • Insightful knowledge as to how we handle conflict
  • Three key ways to effectively navigate the situation:
    • Acknowledge your childhood
    • Introduce awareness to the conversation
    • Press the reset button on all default settings
  • Introducing a safe word in your relationship to let you partner know when his/her “fight, flight or freeze” default setting is kicking in
  • Speaking your truth
  • Getting Unpleasant feedback
  • Why you need GEJF in your life (Grace, Ease, Joy, Flow)

TECHNICALLY DATING (36:27)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • IG – This guy I’ve been in a situationship with has been working a lot lately. He told me at his job someone was eyes him and asked if that person was flirting with him? But then he said he felt uncomfortable. Should I be concerned? Is he asking me how to read the signs?
  • EMAIL -I have been this guy long time – after a long period of being broken up, I have found him again on Facebook. I miss him, love him, and want to marry him. We haven’t seen each other in three months. He either changed his phone number or blocked me. I want another chance and to be with him for Valentine Day. I bought a Valentine’s Day present for him. What should I do?
  • IG – I’ve been divorced for about 10 years and I’m just getting back into dating. When I was 18, I needed an ileostomy to save my life and now I’m wearing an external pouch. My ex had no problems with it because it doesn’t interfere with intimacy. ButI’ve told guys after a few dates about my pouch and I’ve also waited to tell them. In most cases the guy ghosts me. Do I wait until there is a deep emotional connection and risk being emotionally hurt? Or do I tell them up front and lose the guy sooner than later?

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:12  

Hello lovers Welcome to dates and mates. Thank you for making this your go to dating show for the past seven years to all the new listeners who watch my dating profile polish on E Welcome to the fam I am here to love up on you and support you at all phases of dating and relationships and so is my guest for today. Marla Martinson is an internationally recognized relationship expert specializing in working with entrepreneurial couples. She uses her background in neuroscience and in mathematics to do this. And over the course of her 25 year career. She has helped more than 12,000 couples, including Academy Award winners and beyond. Players, Grammy Award winners millionaires, y’all. She’s the real deal. Please give big smooches to Marla Martinson. Thank you so much for being here.

 

Marla Mattenson  1:10  

Thank you so much. I’m super excited for this show!

 

Damona  1:13  

All right, this is the gold standard of advice, y’all. So, get your pen and paper ready because we are going to give you some really key advice about building healthy relationships, and communication. Even when things get a little bit uncomfortable, especially in a fight. We’ll be talking about fighting it’s gonna happen y’all. So we’ll tell you how to navigate through so that you both can get your needs met in the relationship. And we’ll also be covering this week’s headlines including What are the signs that you and your partner could be heading for a breakup and Tim t bow tie the knot and finally popped his cherry Garcia we have the decision about that was is it good for you to roast your partner will tell you the answer to that in a minute and then we’ll answer your question. Including, should you be worried that someone is flirting with your boo at work? And what do you do? If you want your ex back? Especially when you already have a Valentine’s Day present for them? Oh, is this gonna be a spicy one? Marla?

 

Damona 2:15  

Are you ready to dish though?

 

Damona  2:19  

All right. All right, our friends at elite daily gave us the skinny on the four signs that you may be headed for a breakup. I have to admit I did give a lot of the advice for this for this article. But I’m curious Marla because you work with you work with couples. And I’m sure you have seen a lot of these signs coming up. I’ll just go over some of the signs. Y’all should read it on your own. We’ll put the link in the show notes. But I told them to look out for a change in communication style and a decline in sexual intimacy, signs of annoyance or them needing space from you and I think those are just some of the signs, but I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of other signs and people want to know like, what is my partner thinking? What should they be looking for before things get into crisis? I love this article, actually,

 

Marla Mattenson  3:14  

I think it’s really fantastic. It’s a great sign post, there’s not a whole lot more to add to it To be honest, except gifts. If they start giving you more than you’re used to, then that kind of a change, also more than just in the communication style. If they’re starting to go above and beyond, it might mean that they’re trying to put in the extra effort, just in case maybe it will work.

 

Damona  3:39  

Oh, wow, way, way, way way. Wait, because I know a lot of our listeners are saying, Oh, this is great. Like my partner is really leaning in. And they’re they’re showering me with attention. And this is something that I see also in dating in the early phase that I tell people to look out for that when somebody is too too romantic. too aggressive with trying to lock down the relationship? I say that’s actually a bad sign. So that’s also a bad sign on the way our on and the relation. Yes, yes.

 

Marla Mattenson  4:10  

It’s sort of like a last ditch effort. It’s it’s, it’s actually something that I coach on as well in relationship is you want to put in your real hundred percent efforts that maybe you have been holding back because you’ve been waiting for your partner to show up and do the work. And they haven’t. So what I teach is you show up and you do the work. So you put in the extra effort and you see how your partner responds. And so because I know that I offer that as advice to my couples, if they’re having a lot of challenges, I know that sometimes that’s what’s actually going on, someone’s putting in one more big huge effort at the end to see is my partner going to change? Are they going to do anything different or they’re going to still be the curmudgeon? Are they still going to be you know, bitchy, are they still going to have problems and you know, complain, etc. Or they going to see me a new because the idea and relationship as you know is you have have to be able to see your partner with fresh eyes every day, every moment of the day. And if you can’t see your partner with fresh eyes, then you’re always going to be looking for the things that they’re doing wrong. You’re going to be looking for those problems, rather than looking for what’s new and fresh about my partner today. How can I honor and love what he’s all about today are what she’s all about today, rather than looking for all of the issues and the problems and the challenges,

 

Damona  5:25  

yeah, I like the idea of really focusing on the present and I talked to daters about this a lot. What about if we were to look into the past many of these, these cohabitation situations, which is really what this article was talking about, like signs, your partner may be moving out, not just breaking up with you. I think that some of the problems begin before the point of that this article begins. And according to the article 55% of people see moving in together as a step toward marriage. I actually hosted a TV series for a networks called a question of love were removed couples in together for the first time. And they had to go through this intensive experience for 30 days and see if they wanted to stay together or move out and break up. And I found that so many of the times as we move these couples together, they were like, yeah, I’m ready for a relationship. But the moving in together meant something different to each of them. Many of them hadn’t had conversations about like almost sort of a prenup of what’s going to happen if we break up. And it was it’s continually surprising to me with clients as I help them through the dating process. that so many of them are are focused on let me get to the moving in like then now I’ve now I’ve got something, but it’s so much more complicated when you’re living with someone. And I find a lot of these questions aren’t being asked early enough. The dating process

 

Marla Mattenson  6:54  

definitely you know, meaning making is one of the biggest challenges and relationships My partner, Julian, he could literally walk across the room and I can make meaning out of that. How he’s walking across the room, the look on his face what he’s paying attention to, you know. And so if you start paying more attention to the inner world of your own, and you start asking yourself, what meaning Am I making out of moving in together out of how he’s doing this, how she’s doing that, then you’re going to start to understand more about yourself, your own needs, your own desires, and then instead of waiting for your partner, to show up and be all of what you want, you actually know what you want, and then you can articulate it. And you can actually verbalize, you can say it, you can speak it out loud, and then you can see how it lands and how it lands matters, right? Because then you can feel the sort of reverberation of how it lands no matter what they say. You can feel the truth in the vibration of the tone of the vibration of you know, their body posture or their arms folded, look away. You know what’s happening as you’re saying Speaking your needs and your desires to your partner.

 

Damona  8:03  

Well, one person who seemed to be very clear about his needs and his desires was Tim Tebow. He loved love. We’re on board for this. He married Miss Universe Demi Lee Nell Peters. She has a lot of hyphens in her name. I don’t know she’s going to definitely mail Peters t bo. But here’s the catch with this story. Tim was very vocal for many years about his faith and about his desire to stay celibate until he was married, and only 3% of the US population waits until marriage. I was not aware of that. I was not either. But I I’m curious what you think about the faith aside about making this declaration of not having not being intimate until you get married, and if you’ve seen like any couples that have been successful waiting or unsuccessful in not been finding out later that they weren’t intimately compatible.

 

Marla Mattenson  9:04  

Yes, that I love the way you just said that. That’s really wonderful. I wonder if Tim did not have his faith if he would have been celibate. That’s my first wondering, because I believe that celibacy and faith tend to go hand in hand for our youth now, and there is a movement for celibacy in our youth that has nothing to do with faith that just has to do with I’m saving myself for the right time, but it’s not necessarily marriage. saving yourself for marriage is different than saving yourself for love. So celibacy till marriage is a completely different animal and I have to be honest, unless it’s your faith, please don’t do it. Don’t wait until you’re married to have sex. Okay,

 

Damona  9:55  

why Marla?

 

Marla Mattenson  9:56  

Okay, because exactly what you said which is sexual portability is a real thing. I mean, I have a client who a former client who she ended a relationship with someone she really loved because of the way his anatomy hit her on the inside, in a way that caused pain every time they tried to make love. And it was just him. It was it was just the way he curved to the left a little bit that hit her and they tried I gave them all kinds of coaching on that, you know, different positions this and that. And it was painful. She couldn’t enjoy sex with him. And so he was really big,

 

Damona  10:42  

right? No, no, he wasn’t actually okay. We don’t even Okay, we

 

Marla Mattenson  10:45  

don’t have to go there I go, there I go.

 

Marla Mattenson  10:51  

But it’s sometimes the anatomy is an issue and if that’s an issue, you do not want to be in a lifelong relationship with someone that is Going to have that kind of a problem that’s just starting with a foundation that’s really shaky. That’s very challenging, even when you love someone, so literally, there are so many issues in the sexual arena that have nothing to do with compatibility that have to do with taste and touch and the way you hold each other and you know, how, how rigid or contracted you are versus how much you can relax. There’s so many nuances to lovemaking that, you know, you kind of want to take the car for a test drive before you buy it.

 

Damona  11:36  

Yes, you know, just don’t like move the car in your garage before you know you know where you’re going to be driving it. There you go. Okay. As we are looking at different qualities that make a relationship successful beyond the INTIMACY COMPATIBILITY. Community communication is obviously something that you specialize in and something We’ll be talking about more later on in the show. There was an article Marla in the sun, obviously a very reputable source that said, roasting your partner every day makes the relationship stronger. I’m going to just go out on a limb here and say, this goes against everything I know about healthy relationships. And they were saying that it’s good for the the energy to kind of rip them on certain qualities that irritate you rather than nag them. But I kind of feel like if you’re having that much contempt in your relationship, you know, that’s what one of john Gottman four horsemen, you’re feeling those feelings towards your partner. I’m not sure that roasting them is the right way to

 

Marla Mattenson  12:48  

bring it to the surface. I’m so glad you feel that way. I can

 

Damona  12:52  

say on this lady, so I was ready.

 

Marla Mattenson  12:56  

I’m a hell no for that.

 

Marla Mattenson  12:57  

So it makes me question. I’m not The sun they’re just reporting but it makes me question the research and the ages of the participants. It makes me want to question how many people they interviewed it makes me want to question how long they’ve been in relationship it makes me want to question a number of things about the actual research and it feels very teenage It feels like a teenage You know, when you’re in middle school and you kind of negative each other like, you know, you can’t

 

Damona  13:27  

write boy makes fun of you, like sells your hair, then he likes you

 

Marla Mattenson  13:32  

Why is that a thing and that should not continue into a healthy adult relationship. So preamble also to just add on to what you said is, you know, I love dr. john Gottman and it’s if you are using sarcasm in your relationship in any way. Sarcasm, the definition of sarcasm is tearing flesh. I mean, it is not kind it’s saying something that you’re hoping somebody Going to get a message underneath of a truth. Why not just say the truth? And why don’t we because you know, we don’t want to deal with the actual reaction from our partner. So if we are sarcastic instead, then we can, if there’s a negative reaction, we can easily just say, oh, babe, I was just kidding. Oh, why can’t you just roll with it? You’re all you’re so serious, you know, rather than, you know, actually that hurt my feelings. I didn’t like when you said that. That doesn’t feel good to me. To me. Building a loving healthy lifelong relationship with your partner means you pour love and kindness into the union of your relationship the big week, right? You don’t pour sarcasm and jokes that are meant for little digs. Just to get some you know upregulation of hormones so that you can get horny for each other.

 

Marla Mattenson  14:51  

You know, that’s not that will keep you

 

Damona  14:54  

it’s not sustainable to now walking off into the sunset now. This is this is getting interesting, Marla, this is getting very interesting. And I know you have many more insights to share on how to build a healthy relationship, how to deal with conflict, like what we were talking about, and how to have this partner in crime that you you live with, that you love, and maybe even that you work with, that you can really build a long term standing relationship with. So yeah, we’ll be talking about that right after the break. But first, I just have to acknowledge one of our listeners who left this lovely five star review on Apple podcast. Darling Nikki says, Wow, I’m obsessed and I can’t believe I never heard this pod. I can’t believe you haven’t either. loving every app and don’t want to sleep just binge. Thank you, Nikki. We’re so glad that you found the show and we are so grateful you took the time to give us a review. Whether you’re a binge listener like Nikki or a casual fan of the show, please leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform so we can shout you out and give you some love on a future episode. More with Marla Martinson in just a moment.

 

Welcome back. We are here with Marla Martinson and we’re talking about dealing with conflict and relationships and building healthy communication. Marla. Now, you alluded to this in the first segment, but you also work with your partner, Julian colker. He’s a little under the weather today. So we’ll have to join us on a future show. But first of all, how is that because so many people tell me so many clients say I really want to find my partner in crime and somebody who’s going to support me through not just like, love but also life and business. You’ve done it. Yes. How’s that working for you? It’s amazing.

 

Marla Mattenson  16:38  

It’s amazing. And it’s challenging. It is challenging from time to time, right? You know, we’re just like any other couple, we get into the arguments that sometimes spiral down into the pit of hell. And then we come out together the other side, but really, we look at it like it’s kind of like an obstacle course that we go through together. So even when we’re spiraling down, we’re aware because awareness is always the first Step in any process that you’re going to master at some point, you become aware at some point in that conflict. Oh my gosh, wait, I’m in a conflict with the person I love the most on this planet. And when you can pause long enough to remember that that’s the point to insert a knowing that actually it’s not your fault. It’s your biology. Your biology is telling you lies about your partner. Wait, what does that mean? So this is like, this is inner game, inner game, baby. All ready to go in.

 

Marla Mattenson  17:37  

Okay, let’s do it.

 

Marla Mattenson  17:40  

So, when you’re aware that you feel like you want to attack your partner, verbally, just even in your mind, right? You’re saying really awful things in your mind about your partner, blaming them angry, you know, why can’t he or why can’t she just get it or whatever it is. for you in that moment, when you become aware that you’re thinking negative thoughts about your partner, that’s the moment to say, I must be activated. I must be activated about something. It may even not be about my partner, it may be about because, you know, we can’t pay this bill or you know, the mother in law just called or you know, something else is happening with the kids or something is going on in your life. You’re feeling stressed, you’re looking around. I’m not sure if you saw this burn a brown video of it’s hilarious. She talks about how she’s in her kitchen, and she accidentally drops a mug of coffee on the floor. And her husband is nowhere to be found. He’s not even in the house at the time and she yells his name out and blames him for it. And she dropped it and she dropped it.

 

Damona  18:50  

Right girls you know it,

 

Marla Mattenson  18:53  

like the closest person to like ttttt Oh, you You’re the problem. It can’t be me. Right because our ego Won’t let it be us as the problem. So as soon as you realize you’re in that loop, the crazy loop of I want to blame. I want to blame my partner for how I’m feeling right now, even if it is their fault. Okay, here’s the thing. One of our philosophies is it’s never you versus your partner. It’s never you, it your partner is the problem. It’s always the two of you versus the problem. Yes, right. Even if your partner is the problem, we still look at it like we’re sitting next to each other, rather than across from each other across from each other is actually very aggressive. It’s an animal aggressive state to be exactly opposite each other looking into each other’s eyes, rather than sitting next to each other at a table and looking out or going for a walk together and talking about a problem. So the thing is, is that our biology is telling us your partner is a threat. He’s a threat, he’s the problem, or she’s the threat. She’s the problem. The lies that go on our chemical. So your body is is telling you through cortisol through norepinephrine through all the chemicals flowing in your system when you feel attacked in some way. There’s no saber toothed Tiger anymore. We’re not running from a lot of wild lion anymore. But now the threat is can we pay our bills? Right? Is my partner having an affair? Are it does he really love me? You know, all of those things. And when you get into a conflict, it’s a mini microcosm of that old fight flight or freeze response that happens.

 

Damona  20:32  

Right? So talk to us about this fight, flight, or freeze. I’m sure people have heard fighter flight. The talk to us about what the freeze element means and then, you know, as we are just nothing but mammals. Yeah. How does it How is it really affecting us in relationships in our biology?

 

Marla Mattenson  20:53  

Yes. So, fight so if everybody has one major default In the fight flight or freeze response so as as everybody’s listening, you can listen for your own. And sometimes it’s a combination sometimes you go back and forth and sometimes it’s all three and that’s the like, you know, trifecta of horror, when they’re all three activated. So the fight is something happens. Your partner does something they say something they could load the dishwasher wrong in your eyes. Something happens to me, right once.

 

Damona  21:24  

No, no, on the regular rice, right? Because there is a right way to load the dishwasher according to each of us. Don’t we want the dishes to be clean? I don’t know. But okay, go on. Okay, and then we’ll and then we’ll come full circle back to analyze me later. Okay.

 

Marla Mattenson  21:42  

So the fight response is your first inclination is to lash out and to say something to take action. So if your first response is, I need to say something about that dishwasher. The first response is, hey, hey babe, may remember put the glasses on the top Remember, right? Exactly that okay, though, remember. So that’s also kind of like the nag, the nag and the fighter are kind of cousins. So that’s if you have your first response is some action. It can also be a passive aggressive action, which is, let’s say there’s a towel left on the floor every morning, okay? And so white response is, I’m going to pick up that towel and put it back on the hanger. that’s a that’s a it’s a lower level version of the fight response, because on the inside your mind is saying to yourself, that so and so why can he ever just pick up that’s how I’ve told him a million times? So even if he’s not even there, you can still have the fight response when there’s nobody listening. Okay, yeah. Okay. So that’s the fight response. The flight response is, you just want to exit the building, either actually, or in your mind. So these are people who sort of shut down. They they You know, hey, I gotta go handle these other things. They want to put everything on pause.

 

Marla Mattenson  23:04  

This is the people that ghost

 

Marla Mattenson  23:06  

these are the ghost tours, the fighters are they can’t handle conflicts they will avoid at all costs. They’re the ones who actually will use sarcasm and then pretend like it’s not a big deal to actually try to communicate. So the flight people will get the same chemicals but chemicals bond and they start reacting in the way that they learned how to deal with conflict by witnessing and experiencing from childhood.

 

Damona  23:29  

Oh, yeah. Okay. So let’s talk about that. Okay. A lot of people come into relationships with their own conditioning, and they think, I don’t want to do that. My parents did that. And that was uncomfortable for me. So I’m going to be different in my relationship. Do you find that people if they are able to consciously acknowledge what their childhood conditioning was? Are they able to rewrite it? Or do you find that they end up just falling into the same pattern?

 

Marla Mattenson  23:56  

You know, both. I’m just gonna I’m going to answer all of the above Because what happens is just because you’re aware of it doesn’t mean you have a new pathway. So typically, when you become aware, oh, I don’t want to recreate this pattern that my parents did. Typically we do the opposite, which is the opposite side of the same coin. So you’re still doing the pattern, you’re just doing the pattern, the opposite, it does not heal the pattern. To heal the pattern, you need to do something completely new, have a completely new response. And so part of the work that Julian and I do with couples and that we practice ourselves is really excavating family lineage patterns. Because Where did you come from? You didn’t come from nowhere. You came from somewhere, and you learned through experience. And up until the age of seven, we’re literally just open vessels receiving we have no ability to deny or reject or say no to anyone or anything.

 

Damona  24:50  

And you’re not talking just about parental relationship. You’re talking about lineage like what has been passed down generation Right, Andre, she says,

 

Marla Mattenson  25:00  

Did your parents do the work to excavate their material from their parents? Or did their parents or did their parents or their parents, everybody? You know, at one point, what your current parents taught you was very helpful. But that could have been five generations ago. But we’re still using those things today, because who has taken the time to look at their family lineage around, let’s say, pleasure? What did you learn about your family? lineage from pleasure? Like, what did you witness your family doing around physical pleasure? Guess what, it’s in your bedroom? Yeah. And we can excavate that. So really, taking a look at the biology of what’s happening inside of you, is really the most important first step. So becoming aware and pausing long enough to listen to your own thoughts before they fly out of your mouth. And that’s one of the hardest things to do. Right? Because especially those of us who are fighters who just want to say it and then also if you happen to be articulate as you are, as I am Right, you can say things in a way that are logical, they make sense and they’re obviously non combative. But are they building intimacy? are they building more connection? And there are plenty of times where what I say to Julian is not building intimacy and how it’s not about being perfect. It’s about how quickly can I become aware that oops, I just said something that is not in alignment with who I really am. That’s an old version of Marla. That’s the kind of Marla that’s the little hurt girl right? The one who just wants to be loved and doesn’t need us understand all I need a hug. All he needs, whatever, but how does he know that I need a hug when I’m throwing prickly, you know, dark energy out and him right? And he’s like, I’m just gonna stay away from that until that calms down. It’s like a porcupine, you know, right. All the plumes come up, and he can’t get close to me.

 

Damona  26:52  

And then what is his conditioning to is the other side of that Right,

 

Marla Mattenson  26:54  

exactly. So the Exactly, so the other side of the pattern is what is he conditioned to do and part of I’ll just share because we share all apartments cereal. Thank you, right?

 

Damona  27:04  

We’re open book. Yeah. Jason made? Yes.

 

Marla Mattenson  27:08  

So you know, part of his side of the pattern is he doesn’t want to be made wrong. Oh, well, isn’t that the perfect other side of the pattern? I get to be right and he has to be wrong. And so when I find that I’m feeling righteous, or justified or verified in my, because I have a long list of reasons why my way is correct, even if it is, that’s not going to build the intimacy and he will feel wrong. And so that will activate him. And so when he gets activated, and if I’m activated, we call that double activation. And that is the most challenging thing to go through. And that’s when you start spiraling down. And so when one of us has the courage to say, pause, hold on. We’re in it. We’re in it. This is it. This is the moment can we go through the rest of this together like that? Okay, oops, we didn’t do so hot the first five minutes. But How about now?

 

Damona  28:05  

Right now, it’s like kind of bringing it back to what you said earlier of having that moment. Living the moment again, and you’re you’re right there, you’re not like in what just happened five minutes ago, or what happened last week, or what is going to happen next week, it’s being in that moment with your partner and being on the same team, like you were saying, exactly. And

 

Marla Mattenson  28:26  

we actually have a technique for that. I can teach it in two seconds, teach it, it’s called the redo.

 

Damona  28:31  

Hello.

 

Marla Mattenson  28:33  

redo it. And so what it is, is you ask for Rito. So if I’m the one who kind of started it, then I’ll say Wait, can I get a redo? If I, if I can be aware, and then we pause, and he’s, we’re both sort of calm enough that I can say, Can I get a redo, babe, I really did not. Start that the way I really wanted to. And he’ll go, Okay, hold on, give me a second. I gotta shake that off. First. They’ll shake it off. I’ll shake it off and then I’ll go okay. And the idea is You bring sparkly eyes, you bring your open heart, you bring your best self and you both reenact the same scenario. But this time you show up as your best self as your loving self as the self who wants to build love, intimacy and connection, even through challenges and chaos. And when you redo it, you’re literally rewiring your brain in the moment because when you think back on a memory, you remember what happened mostly at the end? Yes, okay. You remember the beginning and you remember the end, you don’t really remember the murky middle, okay? That’s all where it gets very subjective. And so when you redo it, you have redone it and you end smiling. So when you remember the beginning next time, you’ll also remember Oh, yeah, and we did the redo. And we went

 

Damona  29:44  

through it together, and we ended up smiling. Yeah. Marla, how do I get how do I deal with this dishes that you know, I know, how do I get the towels off my floor? I’ll tell you. I mean, of all the things it’s pretty a pretty minor thing. We’ve been together so almost 17 years, 16 years, I’ve, I’ve also just realized, like people sometimes have their patterns and limitations and like, I can be mad about the towel on the floor, or I can just pick it up and move on with my life and let it be over. Yes. And so that’s what I 17 years later decided to do. But honestly, I seriously don’t know you guys. Is that, is that what you recommend? Or is that like, is that a flight response?

 

Marla Mattenson  30:29  

Okay, let’s let’s chat about it.

 

Marla Mattenson  30:30  

Yeah, it depends. And the reason it depends is because it depends on your state of mind in the moment. So, next time, he leaves his towel on the floor, if you will, first of all, I’m assuming. So let let me not assume Let me ask a question. Have you mentioned this to him in the past?

 

Damona  30:49  

He like years ago, like years, okay, it’s been years and then now it’s just like, oh, there’s gonna be towels on

 

Marla Mattenson  30:55  

and so is it every day that there’s two or every time

 

Marla Mattenson  30:58  

I mean, it’s like 6040 Okay, 6040

 

Marla Mattenson  31:03  

So, okay, so there’s a couple of things. First thing is you can with a whole fresh new attitude and love in your heart, you can have a new conversation with him to say, you know what, I realized that I’ve kind of let this thing go, but it actually is still kind of a little bit of a thing for me. I wonder if you’d be willing to make an extra effort to hang up your towel after you use it every day. And then wait for the response and have a conversation about it. And you can also say, and I want to let you know that if you forget from time to time, it’s okay. But it’s still okay. Like it’s been okay this whole time and it’s also still okay. And I also just want to let you know, like, it actually would still feel loving to me, if you would make an even an extra effort, right now, how does that feel to you? And then wait for his response.

 

Damona  31:51  

And now let’s play out the different responses. Okay, everybody. So let’s say the response is like, you know, and just for listeners, like we’re talking about towels, with This could be anything in your relationships. Right? And it’s like a woman. Why are you talking to me about these towels again? I don’t think he would say that. But let’s just play devil’s advocate that

 

Marla Mattenson  32:10  

Yeah. Yeah. What is it about me asking you that bothers you? Oh,

 

Marla Mattenson  32:16  

so whenever someone that’s not that’s not.

 

Marla Mattenson  32:20  

That’s not a fight response. So know if you’re in a calm place, and you ask genuinely because you’re curious and you really want it like, ooh, up. Okay, that’s your reaction. I wasn’t expecting that. And that’s totally fine. I’m just curious, what, what is it about me asking you that feels so off. And you really want to know, and this is the thing is that we don’t really want to know certain things about our partners. And so we just don’t ask and we don’t ask. So I’m a big fan of asking.

 

Damona  32:53  

Yes, that is so important. Like in all we’re talking about conflict, but that’s just important at all phases. Building the relationship curiosity. Oh, yeah. Yo, you hear in her I curiosity comment is what I say for people when they’re dating, like be curious about so good about what you need to know about that person just like be curious on a date. So it’s the same thing in the relationship. And people always ask me, How do you keep the relationship feeling fresh and feeling new and discovery? Right? You still have to stay curious. You talk about something, a philosophy called gaggia. Yes. What is gaggia?

 

Marla Mattenson  33:32  

Okay, gaggia I just have to say I hated that word for many years. And it finally in 2020 is actually a thing. It’s a thing and Julian named it okay, but it’s our philosophy of grace, ease, joy and flow. So get GIF getcha getcha g JF gadget that it’s just easier to say yes. And so it’s like our philosophy is, you know, you can’t control what’s coming at you in life, you know, there’s always the UPS, there’s always the downs, you have no control over that. But you do have control over how you respond. You do have control over that. And if you respond with, I expect grace, ease, joy and flow, even through conflicts, even through challenges, and through the joy and through the happiness, then you start living your life that way. And then when something bad happens, you get a car accident, you know, life happens, right? Then you’re prepared because that’s what you’ve been practicing. I want to run one more thing, which is the freeze response. We didn’t get to that. Can I just say that really quick? The freeze response is and it’s so interesting that it almost is forgotten, you know, because the freeze response is literally like the chameleon just blending into the wall. It’s you know, the octopus that can turn into anything. It’s, you know, the the freeze response is feeling paralyzed. You have no words, no words will come out of your mouth. You’re not trying Two eyes out your partner but you just can’t find any words. Everything in your mind is confusion and your partner’s articulate and you have no idea what to say. So you just say nothing. So the freeze response is a really delicate response that is challenging for people. You know, I actually am an introvert people don’t realize that about me. But I can get into the freeze response. When I’m really activated. I go right into that little girl space where I’m like, I’ll just be like the silent little Good girl where I don’t know what to say. So I’m going to say nothing.

 

Damona  35:31  

Hmm. And so very fulfilling for your prey.

 

Marla Mattenson  35:33  

It is not they’re not

 

Marla Mattenson  35:34  

know and it’s trying to work through the GED. Exactly, exactly. And

 

Marla Mattenson  35:39  

so you know, then you find ways to sort of down regulate the emotions and allow those chemicals to flow through your system and pass through and give yourself a little bit of time and then you come forward again, and you go Okay, let’s, let’s try this again. Let’s do a redo.

 

Damona  35:54  

I love that. And I’m also married to an introvert who’s like Now he’s uh he’s like an introvert mascot yeah found power in introversion but yeah it’s it’s it’s hard when everyone else is is talking and everyone else is in like fight response if your tendency is to go inward and and shut down or we’re not be able to find the words like me right now

 

Marla Mattenson  36:24  

if you tapped into the introvert I did you tapped in

 

Damona  36:27  

like channeling him. This is all such such great information and I know you have insights that our listeners are going to want to hear in our next segment because we got a lot of questions. I so appreciate it y’all. I appreciate you. trusting us with your love lives. We have some very, very challenging questions, but I know Marla Martinson is up to the task so don’t go anywhere. We have more dates and dates right after this. Welcome back to dates and mates.

 

We have some Very challenging questions on this week’s show that have been sent to us far and wide from all different sources Instagram, email, Facebook, you can hit me up on any of the platforms at Damona Hoffman if you if you have a question for a future show. This one Marla comes to us from Instagram. This gal says this guy I’ve been in a situation ship with has been working a lot lately. He told me that at his job, someone was eyeing him. And he asked if that person was flirting with him. But then he said he felt uncomfortable. Should I be concerned? is he asking me how to read the signs? So this person it seemed in situation ships, so it’s kind of a new relationship. But the guy’s asking or like somebody seems to be flirting with me. I don’t really know. What do I do?

 

Marla Mattenson  37:58  

Yeah. How would you read this? This I think this is such a beautiful question because it’s very clear that he wants to move things forward with the woman who wrote that, because he wouldn’t say anything to her about someone flirting at work or potentially flirting. If he wanted to go off and flirt with that other person or start something with somebody else, he would he would probably just go do it rather than talk about it or ask about it. So it’s really beautiful that and it’s sort of a celebration that he is coming to you with this information. And so it’s it’s um, it’s kind of like a toe dip in like, how honest can we be with each other in this relationship? He’s checking to see if you’re going to greet him with love and affection. Or and this may be conscious or unconscious in him okay, but he’s coming to you with Are you a safe person to reveal the truth of my life too, or are you going to freak out, are you going to judge me? Are you going to blame me? What are you going to do with this information? So So the idea here is, in my experience and opinion would be to ask him a question, to get curious to get curious about him and say, Wow, first of all, number one, always when someone brings information to you that they wouldn’t normally bring or they don’t have to bring. The first response is always two words. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for bringing this to me. I really appreciate you sharing this with me. What did that feel like to have that happen? What what Kate, what came up for you like if you become the open, curious space for this person to come and share this information, the number one, he’s going to bring more to you. And number two, you’re going to bond over the fact that you can get curious about this very benign situation because he wasn’t That flirting, if he was into that flirting, then he would have just gone into that flirting.

 

Damona  40:04  

Yeah. So well done. I agree with you. It seems to be a sign of desiring this to become more serious. I do wonder though, if there’s an element of, I’m telling you someone else’s flirting with me to let you know, like, I got options here. Yeah, so yeah, let down

 

Marla Mattenson  40:26  

this Right, right. Exactly, exactly. So. So before you nail it down, though, you want to make sure that he’s not just playing a game, you want to actually ask questions to see how he shows up in the response. So he’s checking to see how you’re going to show up. But you also want to check to see how he’s going to show up. So gathering more information through experience, not just through your thinking about it, but through actual questions and having him answer and having a beautiful conversation about it is what’s going to help the two of you together come to Oh, yeah.

 

Marla Mattenson  41:00  

Well, I don’t want anybody flirting with you at work,

 

Marla Mattenson  41:03  

I want to flirt with

 

Marla Mattenson  41:05  

flirting with you or you know, so you can get playful with your responses and show him if you want more in the relation. If you want the situation to be a relationship, then you can offer up a little bit

 

Damona  41:16  

more like playful. Okay, I need everyone. I just have to pause for a second because I need everyone to really hear what Marla just said. It is so important in the early phase of dating and getting to know people that you find that playfulness and that flirtatiousness as you are trying to figure out where things are headed. So a lot of times my clients get very stressed in that period of when we’re trying to DTR figure out is this going to be a relationship or not, and they don’t know how to find the words to really express what they want without feeling like they’re being raw and vulnerable and potentially getting going to get hurt. But you have to you have to get Curious, and you have to present it if you present it in the way that Marla said. It’s it keeps it light, but it keeps it also intriguing. I would say yes.

 

Marla Mattenson  42:12  

And if Also, if you’re not curious, if you’re not bringing curiosity to these conversations, then you’re bringing something else. You’re bringing your assumptions. You’re bringing what you think is going on,

 

Damona  42:22  

you’re bringing your assumptions, you’re bringing your desire to get married and have a baby yesterday into whatever outcome you’re trying to create. You’re trying to create an outcome, right? That’s kind of the bottom line. That’s right.

 

Marla Mattenson  42:35  

That’s right. So you’re not actually available for what the real outcome is. And the real outcome unfolds, you can’t control it. It actually just kind of naturally organically comes together more and more, the more you’re open and vulnerable, rather than what a lot of people try to do. And I know you’re a master at this is, is helping people understand that if you try to control the dating process, you could actually end Up engaged to someone who doesn’t really know you. Because you’ve been showing what you think they want to see every step along the way, rather than who you really are

 

Damona  43:11  

or manipulating the outcome or

 

Marla Mattenson  43:13  

exactly, exactly, exactly. So curiosity. No, we don’t want that for you don’t do that.

 

Damona  43:17  

Okay, that’s actually a perfect segue in. Okay, this was an email that was sent to me, I’m going to kind of paraphrase hope it’s okay to the listener who’s on this question. But basically, she was with this guy for a while. They broke up, they got back together. They were together for a few years. And then, about three or four months ago, they broke up again. But she’s saying, I miss him. I love him and I want to marry him. We haven’t seen each other in three months. He either changed his phone number or blocked me. I want another chance to be with him for Valentine’s Day. I bought a Valentine’s Day present for him. What should I do to get him back

 

Marla Mattenson  44:00  

I have a little yikes on that when I noticed, I don’t know go easy. So I don’t know how to say this in, I’ll just say it in the most gentle kind way I can. If you want to give a gift to someone, a gift is a one way direction. It is not a two way direction. It’s you want to give a gift. And it’s received by the other person and the person can do whatever they want with they can throw it in the trash, they can cherish it forever, they can do whatever they want. Right? I

 

Marla Mattenson  44:30  

love that.

 

Marla Mattenson  44:32  

Or, and then if they want to respond or reciprocate than they can, but there’s no no guarantee obligation at all for them to have to respond. So if you’re giving a gift with the hopes of getting something in return, then that’s the first question. I would ask yourself. Why do I want to give something to someone who I can’t even get ahold of right now? Like what is it in me that wants to still Reach out and give to someone who I have not received from in months and that I literally don’t really even have any way to get ahold of that. So to me, that tells me that there’s something in you that needs nurturing, and need love and needs attention and affection from someone who loves you, meaning you, you, you need to love yourself first, more than wanting to get married to this particular person. So if you start fulfilling your own love first, you know, then the way the universe works is you shift yourself, then that sends the vibration out to the universe. And then if he is meant to come back to you, he will and if he is not, he will not.

 

Marla Mattenson  45:54  

But let’s look at let’s just look at facts. I mean, they were together for a year I said I was going kind they can No, and then they got back here.

 

Marla Mattenson  46:01  

And

 

Damona  46:02  

I’m glad that you went kind. But I do want to also just realize the reality of the situation. He is being very clear about how, what he sees in the future for this relationship. If he blocked you or he changed his phone number, he’s not responding to you. He is saying, I need a clean break here. And there. I just like you said, I don’t see an positive outcome in chasing a relationship that one person does not want to be in.

 

Marla Mattenson  46:37  

Okay, I’ll say something more about that. That so I appreciate that. So the thing is, is

 

Marla Mattenson  46:43  

you either want harmony in your life, or you want suffering, and it’s conscious or unconscious. And when we chase after someone who clearly is sending the message, no, you’re asking for suffering. So if you you know what would happen, let me let sort run through some, some scenarios. My background is in mathematics and neuroscience pattern recognition is my thing. I can run through all the iterations of what might happen, let’s say spreadsheet, let’s

 

Damona  47:07  

do it. You’re talking about language. Okay,

 

Marla Mattenson  47:10  

so what if you dropped off the package at his house and you saw him? Get out of the car, from you know, kissing somebody else? Oh my gosh. And then what you’re standing there with this present, just dropping in a suffering, you’re going to suffer, everyone’s gonna suffer? What is going on inside of you? That you want suffering? And it’s obviously unconscious, because nobody consciously wants suffering. That’s not that’s not what we do. As humans. We don’t consciously want suffering, unconsciously we recreate family patterns. So ask yourself, can you actually receive love from someone who actually loves you? Who wants to build a life together because as soon as you can really let go of this particular person, in your mind, in your heart, and your soul in your body, go do some cleanses or something like go on a on a solo journey, take a trip by yourself get go to the local park and look at the flowers, take some time for yourself, and then start loving more and more of who you are. And then that’ll shine out. And you’ll actually attract someone who values who you really are

 

Damona  48:19  

so true. Yeah, and just just just to cap it off. I hear this all the time, like I want. I was in love with this person, and I wanted to marry them. And I just have to remind you, if you’ve said that to a relationship that has ended, you’re not in love with that person. You are in love with the idea of that person. They may are in love with the time you invest in or the idea of marriage or the idea of marriage, but you are not in love with that person. Because if that relationship was going to fulfill all your needs, it would be happening. I’m so

 

Marla Mattenson  48:49  

glad you said that because people fall in love with the idea of a person.

 

Marla Mattenson  48:54  

And we have to really I’ve been married in my

 

Marla Mattenson  48:56  

mind.

 

Damona  48:59  

But it was so Different when I met my husband, and then you look, I swear, you look back at those other relationships and you’re like, how could I thought that that was going to be it for me? So so if you look at it from that perspective, maybe that’ll give you a little bit of hope to that something greater. Yeah is out there for you if you do the work that Marla is recommending, we do have one more question. I want to start. Okay, this is this a little bit different. Jenny says I’ve been divorced for about 10 years, and I’m just getting back into dating. She says when I was 16, I needed an ileostomy. I’m not sure exactly what that is. But she said she needed this position, this medical procedure to save her life. And now she has to wear an external pouch for you know, digestion. So she said her ex had no problems with it. And it didn’t interfere with intimacy. But she’s told guys after a few dates about the pouch, and she’s also waited to tell them in some cases, but in most of the cases, she’s told them the guy ghoster she says, Do I wait until there’s a deep emotional connection and risk being emotionally hurt? Or do I tell them up front and lose the guy sooner than later?

 

Marla Mattenson  50:12  

So you think it’s a great question. I think this is a really like beautiful vulnerable question. Absolutely. And

 

Damona  50:18  

I’m sure a lot of people like maybe you don’t have the the pouch like Jenny does, but maybe you have another mental medical condition or,

 

Marla Mattenson  50:27  

or feeling shame around certain part of your body or something

 

Damona  50:29  

body shame, mental health challenge, whatever it is. Everybody has their something.

 

Marla Mattenson  50:34  

Yeah. How do you do this specific thing is a special case scenario really is.

 

Marla Mattenson  50:41  

I would say,

 

Marla Mattenson  50:43  

it depends on who you are. So knowing yourself, so some people are a little more shy. So Jenny, if you’re more of the shy kind of a person, then I would say wait for a significant amount of time before you share that bowl. detail about your life. If you’re more of like a bold, brazen kind of unapologetic person, then then I would say it very early on, I would go very early because if somebody can’t handle that about you, then they can’t handle you.

 

Marla Mattenson  51:15  

So, bye. Bye, Felicia,

 

Marla Mattenson  51:18  

we don’t need any of that. Right, right. We need people in our lives who accept and love us for who we are. So if you’re the bold, I’m more of the bold type. So I’m the type who, hey, I’m just gonna lay it on the table right now from the beginning. And if you don’t dig that about me, that’s okay. We won’t be friends. And that’s okay, too. You know, we should doesn’t mean literally like,

 

Marla Mattenson  51:38  

No, no, no. No, right. Okay, thank you. I appreciate that.

 

Marla Mattenson  51:44  

don’t deal with it. Hey, what about this?

 

Marla Mattenson  51:47  

You know, and there’s a way to do it, obviously, I’m sure you’re very way more nuanced than what I just tried to say. But really knowing who you are because this is not just about Jenny right? This is about everyone who has that one thing that they don’t Really want to share the beginning they’re not sure. I mean, I actually just wrote an article about, you know how to have difficult money conversations with your partner early in a relationship. And, and so that is it’s so tender to talk about the things that we keep very private, that are just for us that are just for the people who really love and know us. And then we’re opening up to the possibility of a new relationship. You know, on some level, you want to test the waters First, make sure this is someone who’s worthy of that kind of information, not just somebody that you met, that you may be interested in, you know, you want to make sure that it’s on the other side, like there’s one side of it is, who are you? Right? You’re bold, or you’re more shy, where are you in that sort of spectrum? That’s how long you should wait and then also, who’s the other person? Are they worthy of hearing these details? Because you don’t want to just share this with someone who’s gonna go post it on Facebook or Instagram or Snapchat or you know,

 

Damona  52:58  

or Yeah, or judge you and Fairly for it like, right. our listeners have heard me say that on dates early on, people have to earn information that’s right from you. So is it something that you would share with like your coworker on the first day at a new job? Is it something that you would tell the person on the bus next to you? If it’s not, then maybe you wait until that you feel that you’ve you’ve earned a little bit of trust in that person? Yeah, they have earned a little

 

Marla Mattenson  53:26  

and also you can be playful with it. Yeah, right. Yes, like transform it into a superpower. Like, oh, oh, you still use some digestive juices to digest your food. That’s amazing. Because mine totally goes into a bag. Yeah. I’m saying like you could do or whatever your particular bag is. You know, some people have a philosophy bag. People have different things. So you can use your quirky thing as a way to be playful with it.

 

Damona  53:57  

Yeah, and some people like her situation. is sort of invisible until she becomes intimate, right? There are people I know that are dealing with very, very visible disabilities challenges, like I had a client who had a very pronounced stutter. That got worse when he was attracted to someone or, you know, sexually, you know, interested. And what we worked out with him is for him to acknowledge it just right right away, but to also turn it into a compliment. So he’d say, I’m sorry, I, I have a stutter. And and I actually stutter more around beautiful women. And so then it became sort of brought them it’s almost going back to what you were saying about putting your partner on your team it put your date on your team. Yeah. So that you acknowledge the elephant in the room, but at the same time you brought that person into it?

 

Marla Mattenson  54:46  

Yes. And then it’s not made into a problem. And here’s the thing. The other piece that I want to say is, if you make your own and it doesn’t sound like you are Jenny, I’m just saying, if if you’re making your own thing, A problem, then that’s the energy that’s going to come through how you communicate it. So before you communicate it, you want to make sure that you’ve made best friends with whatever issue it is that you have, so that you can bring it to the table as not this big huge issue. But as just this is just me,

 

Damona  55:19  

this isn’t is it? You know, it’s just a thing. Yeah. Yeah. This is such great, great advice. Marla, I’m so glad you could be here to share all of your wisdom with us. And this is such valuable information for people who are both dating and in relationships. And if you go into a new relationship, using some of the tools and techniques that Marla just shared, I’m telling you guys, you’re going to have a completely different experience of it. You can find Marla and Julian colker on social media at the intimacy experts. You can find her online at Marla martinson.com will also be sure to put those links in the show notes. Thank you so much for being here. Marla.

 

Marla Mattenson  55:59  

Thank you so much. Much. Also don’t forget,

 

Damona  56:01  

you still have time to find a date for Valentine’s Day. So if you are ready to date differently in 2020, but you don’t know how to get started, the 30 day dating playbook could be your solution. I’m just going to go out on a limb and say it is your solution. And it has worked for so many of my clients before and it works quickly. 90% of my clients last year, left my programs dating someone exclusively in as little as eight weeks. So give yourself this gift, get yourself launched into a relationship and maybe even snag a date before Valentine’s Day. You can find that at 30 day dating.com. And that has all of the five steps that I lead my private clients through that help them to go through their dating funnel figure out where they’re looping and get themselves into the relationship that they dream of. And it’s 30 days it’s self led so you have no excuses go to 30 day dating.com And I’ll put the link to the 30 day dating playbook in the show notes as well. And for those of you who want more love support, but maybe you’re not ready for the playbook. We will be launching a Patreon Friends with Benefits Program in February. So please stay tuned for that we’d love to welcome you into the community. I hope you enjoyed Episode 294 updates and mates again, I’m at damona Hoffman on all of the socials. And we’d love to have you join in on the conversation. You can send me your questions for future episodes and you can leave us a review like darlin, Nikki. And also don’t forget to share this episode with a friend who needs to hear Marla’s unbelievable relationship advice. Thank you so much for listening until next week. Wish you happy dating

Co-dependency & Contagious Love

DON’T PAINT YOUR RED FLAGS GREEN

Here’s a question we have to ask for today’s show: do you feel like you’re always having your boundaries tested? Are you struggling to figure out how to get your needs met in a relationship without it turning into co- dependence?                                                                                                                                                                    

Then, friends, you need some Carla Romo in your life.

Carla is a nationwide speaker, certified dating & relationship coach, and author of the book Contagious Love. You’ve seen her on BRAVO, Cosmo, Bumble, Lifetime, and more

She’s here to help us understand red flags and co-dependence.

More on that later, first we have headlines!

DATING DISH (2:30)

Do you have accent bias? 

Have you ever heard the words, “he was so sexy until he opened his mouth”? According to Refinery 29, a recent study reveals that accent bias might be the reason behind this

What to expect when you are dating someone with a mental health diagnosis

The Tinder Blog writes a very honest guide to navigating dating someone with a mental health diagnosis. Damona and Carla have thoughts. 

Should you be looking for marriage?

Amanda Seales reveals that she’s not looking for marriage and most millennial women aren’t either. Damona breaks it down.

CONTAGIOUS LOVE (14:60)

Carla Romo, dating coach, love-life cheerleader, and author of the book, Contagious Love, has so much to share on healthy relationships. 

  • Carla’s philosophy is that the most important relationship you have is with yourself, and it sets the tone for every relationship you have in your life.
  • Feeling stuck and stagnant 
  • Codependency
  • Boundaries
  • Don’t paint your red flags green

 

TECHNICALLY DATING 

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • I’ve been online dating for about a month and the conversations with 3 guys have been taken offline. While Online the messaging back and forth was consistent and quick, but offline I feel I’m the one mainly holding the conversations and asking pertinent questions. How do i get more engagement? I’ve practiced the “yes and” role playing from one of your podcast episodes but then there are awkward moments of silence via FaceTime or on the phone. (Btw I let guys know I’m not much of a texter and phone calls are preferred) Help me please! -Andrea
  • Rachel- I met someone about nine months ago and we had the most amazing connection I’ve ever had with anyone. However, there are circumstances going on in his life that have caused him to not be able to focus on his love life, so we are no longer together. He says his feelings have not changed for me, but these other obligations keep him from being the man that he wants to be and to be fully invested in a relationship. Aka, he’s not ready. How do I get over someone who I expected to live the rest of my life with?

New Year & Healthy Dating Habits

HAPPY NEW YEAR, LOVERS!

Welcome to the first Dates and Mates episode of 2020! 

We love this time of year and everything it symbolizes. You know we’re all about staying proactive and evolving your approach to dating and relationships year around – but we also like the idea of a fresh start and some motivation to reach your goals this year. 

Coming through the holidays you might just be feeling like you can’t even with dating & relationships right now but what my guest for today would say to that is to Deal With It.                                                                                                                                                                        

Joining me in studio in a moment will be Tracy Crossley – a Behavioral Relationship Expert and host of the “Deal With It! Podcast”, who specializes in treating individuals with unhealthy dating and relationship patterns. 

More on that later, first we have headlines! 

DATING DISH (2:30)

What does Wilmer Valderamma’s engagement mean for Demi Lovato

Wilmer popped the question to model Amanda Pacheco this New Year’s Day! You may recall that Demi and Wilmer dated for six years. Damona’s take: “When you know you know. When a guy is ready, he is really ready. And when he’s not ready he will gladly take 6 years of your time to figure it out.”

Peak Dating Season launched yesterday!

Dating Sunday was yesterday. Everything you know for this year’s quest for love.

Science says emoji users have more luck in love and we’ll tell you why

We’ve been telling you this for years and we just love when Damona is right. 

DEAL WITH IT (14:60)

Tracy Crossley, a Behavioral Relationship Expert and host of the “Deal With It! Podcast”, joins us to talk about how to flip unhealthy dating and relationship patterns.

In addition to her mentoring services, Tracy offers her successful digital coaching program called “The Insecure Attachment Cleanse” where clients can start taking the steps to rid whatever roadblocks keep them from having healthy relationships.

Tracy is here to help us usher in the new year with some great advice to get us all started on our new years resolutions!

 

TECHNICALLY DATING

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • (From Instagram) Hi Damona, The guy I’m seeing still hasn’t officially made me his gf yet nor have I met his family but they do know about me. His uncle even calls me “his girl.” Me and my guy had a convo as to if I was someone he saw in his future. I asked is there a light at the end of the tunnel, was that the right choice of words? This conversation happened on the phone and I feel like I didn’t get a straight answer out of him. What should I do?
  • (From Facebook) My fiance wants to get a gym membership but only for him, which I don’t approve of. I’m having doubts about it because last time he ended up flirting with his personal trainer. I had her blocked on his social media and blocked her number from texting him. I don’t understand why he needs a female personal trainer and not a male? Am I wrong to be concerned? Should I let him go alone to the gym?

DAMONA’S DIATRIBE 

Damona has THOUGHTS on the “22 Convention” – which we are referring to it as the mansplaining convention. Here’s an article wit the breakdown if you’re curious!

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

 

Damona  0:12  

Happy New Year lovers. Welcome to the first dates and mates episode of 2020. I’m your certified Dating Coach damona Hoffman here to give you the scoop on how to date and mate in the new year. I love this time of year and everything it symbolizes. You know, I’m all about staying proactive and evolving your approach to dating and relationships year round. But I also like the idea of a fresh start, and some motivation to reach your goals this year. Coming through the holidays, I know you might be feeling just like you can’t even with dating and relationships right now. But what my guest for today would say to that is to just deal with it. Joy Me in studio in a moment will be Tracy Crossley. She’s a behavioral relationship expert and she’s the host of the deal with it podcast. She specializes in treating individuals with unhealthy dating and relationship patterns. And she’s going to be doing just that and helping us rewrite our rules on love for 2020. But you know how we do? We have to discuss the headlines first. Today we’re talking about Wilmer Valderrama pops the question, but what does that mean for Demi Lovato and peak dating season launched yesterday? Everything you need to know about how to find love online this year. Plus, science says emoji users have more luck and love and we’ll tell you why. And then we’ll be answering your questions like how to get a guy to commit when even all his family knows that you’re kind of dating. And could your fiance be at the gym flirting instead of doing flies will tell you the signs in a little bit. And then I will leave you with my first damona is done. tribe of the year, and I’m fired up about something. Producer Leah, are you fired up? 

 

Leah

I’m fired up!

 

Damona

Are you super fired up?

 

Leah

Yes! 

 

Damona

Let’s dish!

 

Damona  2:14  

Wilmer Valderrama is engaged to Amanda Pacheco. He is a ripe 39 years old. She is just 28. And he popped the question on New Year’s Eve, very popular to pop the question on holiday. But first, I just have to mention his AX, Demi Lovato with whom he was involved for six years. And they were never engaged. And now he’s been with Amanda Pacheco, not like we’re counting but only since April. And he’s already popped the question. Here’s the thing, producer Leah. All the time people ask me like how do you know when it’s the one or my boyfriend won’t commit to me but I really feel like he’s the one and Should I stick it out? Demi Lovato put in six, six years hard time years and got nothing to show for it my rehab. And here comes Amanda Pacheco, what like eight, nine months later, she’s just like, okay, I’ll take those. Right. Yeah. My feeling is that when you know, you know, and when a guy is ready, he’s really ready. And when he’s not ready, he will gladly take six years of your time to figure it out.

 

Leah Schell  3:25  

That hurts to hear, but it’s hard. Yeah. No, I mean, we need to hear it also, like it shouldn’t be hard. Like, it seems like Demi and Wilmers relationship was really tumultuous, and I feel like the right relationship shouldn’t be hard.

 

Damona  3:39  

Yeah, I mean, she was definitely dealing with some things. Yeah, you’re exactly right. When you’re in the right relationship, all of these other questions and concerns and challenges. They really don’t arise in the same way. So I have to say I’m happy for Wilmer that he found somebody that he does want to spend his life with and Demi has said in the news that she’s cool with it and she wants what’s best for them and they’re still friends. Right? And I do believe you can be friends with your ex after you’ve done some healing they’ve they’ve been broken up for over a year. It’s been a minute like it’s been a while. Yeah. And he’s been supportive of her and in her relapse and keeping her sobriety. So he’s gonna move on, he has to get his life together. I don’t know about doing it on New Year’s New Year actually was on New Year’s Day. I said New Year’s Eve, but it was on New Year’s Day. And then he made a big post about it. I just don’t like engagements happening on holidays. I feel like these are stressful, right?

 

Leah Schell  4:37  

Yeah. And then like, I don’t know, just like, every year from now on, it’s going to be like, you’re some sort of like anniversary and like that. That holiday too. So it’s just kind of adds to the stress to me also like it, I don’t know, it makes the holiday less special. So

 

Damona  4:54  

yeah, I have no idea when my husband proposed to me know it might have been June. Yeah, I mean, I remember the moment and it was when we moved into our first house, but I wasn’t checking the clock like that. But I’ll tell you because there was such a focus. Like we hear all these stories of engagements like this. I was stressed out every time there was a holiday, or we did a trip together because I thought he was going to like, make this grand gesture thing. Yeah. And then stop and then I just like spent every holiday for a year just off it didn’t happen. You know what somebody asked me actually this week, they said, How do you do you believe in women proposing to men and I was like, in theory? Yes. Yeah, I totally do. But I don’t know why when it was my turn. I couldn’t do it. I was a little old fashioned about that. I guess all evolving.

 

Leah Schell  5:44  

I know. Yeah. Sam, I just like I don’t know. I’m feminist. I consider myself self feminist, but I don’t think I would have the guts to do it. Like, do that. 

 

Damona  5:57  

Well, I don’t know if you would have the guts for a proposal. It would You have the guts to go online for dating Sunday? Yes, yes. resounding yes. this past Sunday was the biggest online dating day of the year. Let me explain why. This is the time of the year when the dating app see a huge surge in new members, starting with last Sunday night. That’s when everybody goes online to try to set up their dates for the first date of the year, right. And now we’re in a mad dash to Valentine’s Day. I’m really not trying to stress you guys oh yeah, not for nothing but the clock is ticking. But everyone is feeling everyone’s feeling the way that you all are. If you’re single and you’re like, New year, new boo, you’re ready for a change everybody flocks to the dating apps and this is when you’re going to see the most number of new people online. You know, everybody’s like, I go online, I see the same people I see the same people on Bumble And then they’re also on hinge and then they are they’re also on Tinder. If you have said that. This is the Day, this is the week, this is the time that you need to go online refresh your dating profile. If you haven’t gotten my free profile starter kit, do it. It’s on the website, we’ll put this link in the show notes. But it’s going to be bigger this this peak dating season is going to be bigger than ever. All of the apps are growing at rapid rapid numbers. And so if you ever wanted a chance to find a match is now pace right now. Did that was that stress, though? I made? I added stress didn’t I

 

Leah Schell  7:31  

know I? Okay. I mean, no, I feel like it’s just important knowledge for people to know.

 

Damona  7:37  

Okay, thanks, Russell. Yeah, let’s flip it. I’m adding opportunity. This is your best opportunity. And while you are on the apps or while you are moving into these new relationships, I have another tip for you because the Kinsey Institute came out with a study that said people who use emojis have better luck on dating apps. Now for the longtime listeners of this show, this is not going to surprise you. But I love it when science backs up what I’ve said on the show. The reason is, according to the author of the study, she says specifically for emojis were particularly interested in them as a way to signal effect or emotion in an effort to better connect with someone in the context of online dating. Now she said it in the scientist way, I’m going to bring it down to earth for you. I’ve always said emojis or mood modifiers. The problem with communicating through text, and especially communicating with people that you don’t know through text or through chat is that we can’t tell the context. We don’t know what you mean. If you use emojis sparingly for effect, as she says, you actually can make a better connection. People can understand your sense of humor, they can understand your personality better, and you’re going to do better according to the Kinsey Institute on these dating apps.

 

Leah Schell  8:56  

Yeah, I have something to add. I just Like I’m personally not like the hugest user of emojis, but I prefer gifts instead. Um, so like, if you’re like a person who like is still like not obsessed with like emojis, maybe try gifts and you can go to the app store and get the gift keyboard for free and it’s just like, I don’t know, there’s it’s super easy to use if like, you’re just not using emojis.

 

Damona  9:22  

gifts are really great. Yeah, we’re showing personality and showing sense of humor. rashly and memes. So they’re great to use in tandem with words. Yeah, I do not recommend them in new chats. Oh, really? Don’t know. Yeah. As the only text Right,

 

Leah Schell  9:41  

right. Totally. Yeah, no, yeah. As like a text like a joke and then like a GIF to reinforce that.

 

Damona  9:48  

Yeah. Producer Leah, was like, honey, I got this. I’ve been doing this.

 

Leah Schell  9:52  

I’ve been doing that. It’s good for people to know like, you know, it’s good, you know, information.

 

Damona  9:57  

I know some of our some of our more mature listeners are probably listening to that, like, What is she even talking about? Like, it’s the video, you know, with a funny saying, yeah. So don’t panic. If you don’t know about this stuff yet. Don’t panic. Just stay tuned, I’m going to keep giving you all of the guidance and advice and we’ll just ease you into it. It’s 2020. We are starting the year fresh. But don’t worry, we’re going to baby step into it. We’re going to get you going. And we’ll be talking later with Tracy Crossley, a behavioral relationship expert and the host of the deal with it podcast. But first, I just have to tell you if you want to date differently in 2020, let’s talk I am hosting a very special webinar just for the single ladies and the single guys called why online dating doesn’t work for you. And we’ll be doing a presentation plus a live coaching and QA. And if you have a dating dilemma that you want to talk to me about this is your chance. This is the time where you can get free coaching from me on your specific problem plus, you’ll get all of the online data tips that I have been sharing on this on this podcast. And on TV I was just on E news doing a profile makeover, and then more. It’s a whole webinar about online dating dating apps and how you can really master them for this year. So you can sign up at the dating secret.com it’s free. Again, the website is th e dating secret calm we’ll put the link in the show notes and on our blog at dates and mates. com. Stick around we have Tracy Crossley coming right up plus your questions being answered and technically dating see in a moment. We are here with Tracy Crossley. She is a behavioral relationship expert and the host of the deal with it podcast which specializes in treating individuals with unhealthy dating and relationship patterns. In addition to her mentoring services, Tracy offers her successful digital coaching program called the insecure attachment cleanse you know I’m always talking about attachment styles. So we will get into that. And a little bit but in this program, her clients can start taking the steps to rid whatever roadblocks are keeping them from having healthy relationships. And it’s the beginning of the year. And I know many of you are looking at your dating patterns of the last year, maybe two, maybe more. And you’re thinking this is the time that I need to make a new year’s resolution around dating around this relationship that is not serving me and you want to clear out that roadblock so today I’m going to give you a little taste of what Tracy does. First, let’s start out with giving her big smooches, big smooches to Tracy Crossley.

 

Tracy Crossley  12:37  

Well, thank you and big speeches to you.

 

Damona  12:39  

Thank you. I will take all this mooches especially this time of year, the year starting out. Everybody is kind of like clean slate. I’ve been through the holidays. It’s stressful for everyone regardless of your relationship status. And you want to start new you want to start fresh. What are Some of the steps that you find people can do at this time of year to set themselves off on a new on a new foot. It’s 2020 New Year new you, what’s the like the first thing that you should be doing?

 

Tracy Crossley  13:13  

Well, I believe most people get caught up in the season. And on the one hand, they’re thinking, I can go to all the parties, I can drink, I can eat, I can do all these things and let loose. And then January 1, all of a sudden, I can’t do any of that anymore, because now I need to get it together, right? So a lot of times we have expectations of ourselves that actually set up a downfall to me because you get into a mindset through the holidays and and if you’re struggling through the holidays, of course, you have this idea that maybe once the holidays are done, things will be better. So it’s always an expectation you’re having of some kind of future that you want to have happen. And there’s pressure with that. And so I say stay in the moment, stay in the moment as much as you can. Enjoy where you are, or if you’re even suffering where you are, except that you’re not in a great place, but that that will pass and it does pass. But a lot of times we have expectations, we really get caught up in, it needs to be this way. I want things to be this way. And instead, it’s so much better just to stay in the moment and be where you are.

 

Damona  14:20  

And you brought up an interesting point about this all or nothing philosophy. Like I was totally an indulgence in December and now it’s January. And I can’t do any of that I have to I have to be very rigid with myself or for some people like dating Sunday is coming up. This is when the most number the highest number of new users will be on dating apps and will be swiping Sunday night, y’all this week. So it can also go into a state of overwhelm where you’re so focused on it. You’re gripping it so tightly. And even brief. How do you help people find that balance and set up their expectations where they want something, but they’re not crushing it to death?

 

Tracy Crossley  15:10  

Well, that still comes back to being attached to an outcome, right? And a lot of times we put pressure that we have to have it now, like when I was dating before my husband, one of the things that I did was I stopped doing this thing that I did every year, which is I can’t be alone for the holidays. I can’t go through another holiday alone, right? And so that creates a lot of that pressure. And I just said, You know what, whenever it happens, it happens for me, as long as I am doing things that are going toward getting into a healthy relationship. So I gave myself a break, and I stopped with the craziness. And I you know, I did not put a time limit on it because I figured when I was ready, it would show up. And that didn’t mean I was sitting on my couch eating bonbons, but it was I was actively moving in that direction without Bunch of this has to happen by this date this has to happen here there. I took all of that off the board, because really all you’re doing is making yourself a crazy person.

 

Damona  16:08  

So what did you do in that time when you realize that your relationship patterns were not serving you,

 

Tracy Crossley  16:16  

oh,

 

Damona  16:18  

you have to do something right to shift out of that mindset. And to prepare yourself to, to be ready for the next relationship, the different relationship.

 

Tracy Crossley  16:30  

And I did I you know, I’ve been doing the work in my business for 12 years at this point. And I was also growing along with my work. So about six, eight months before I met my husband. I came I was standing in my bathroom, and I realized, oh my gosh, I am afraid to go out on a date. I had a huge wall of fear, and I knew that I had to do something. So I really took myself in hand and I committed Committed to dating to get to a relationship whenever that would happen, which was totally different than how I did it before I always had one foot in and one foot out, oh, I’ll go on a date. And I’ll see what happens, oh, gosh, this guy’s a loser or always finding a problem with the person. And I realized that a lot of the problems were with me and how I was doing it how open I was not.

 

Damona  17:21  

As in I was closed.

 

Tracy Crossley  17:23  

So I went through all of these different iterations with myself and it kept growing, kept going on on dates, made myself be vulnerable in places where I would never in a million years have done like instead of ghosting somebody actually saying to them, hey, look, this isn’t gonna work out for me. So about two months before I met my husband, I started writing letters to him. And so two months later, he showed up and again when I did the letters, I had no okay, this has to be by this date sort of thing. I just wrote them and i was growing along with my letters. And they were I mean, they were letters where I looked at them and I thought, How did this happen three months after I met him, I’m like, Oh my god, this is so him and weird things that I never in a million years would have asked for or said, but for some reason I wrote them in the letters.

 

Damona  18:17  

Hmm. I had a similar experience before I met my husband of like writing down all of these qualities that I was looking for, and thinking that that person didn’t exist. I won’t bore our listeners because they’ve heard the story a couple of times, but it sounds like what you’re talking about is manifestation. And I know that’s that’s also that’s a program that you have about manifesting your your honeybun the love of your life. Okay, a lot of people are just heard me say that word and they backed up and they’re like, Oh, that sounds that sounds like witchcraft or something. How do you define manifestation? And how do you think we’re

 

Tracy Crossley  19:01  

Well in a non woowoo way, and this is very true, its commitment to what you want most of us, like I was just saying we have one foot in one foot out, I actually committed with both feet, that means riding the roller coaster of whatever is going on, whether it’s inside of you, whether it’s the dates, it’s really being committed to that end result that you want. And its intention. If you have an intention, and you take action towards that intention, you’re going to arrive there at some point, but we have a lot of doubts and a lot of other crap that we put in the way. And then we end up in these cycles where we never get where we want and we’re lamenting about our situation. And I stopped doing that. And so for me in how like in the course that I’m teaching the 30 day course on manifesting your honeybun it’s really showing people how to write letters because one of the things whenever people talk about attracting, they feel that they have to be perfect or only show their positive side In these letters, I would say things like I am having a bad day. Now, I was being very honest and open with who I was. And I kept growing through the process and taking responsibility for the things I was saying the things I was doing. And just like I said, when he showed up in my life, I didn’t immediately go to the letters and go, Oh my gosh, is this the guy? But a couple months later, I looked at the letters and I was like, Oh, my God,

 

Damona  20:25  

this is the guy. That’s how it happens. Because if you think if you recognize it in the moment, then sometimes it goes back to what I was saying earlier. That’s when you start to squeeze it like, this could be the one this could be the one and it, it’s it. It kind of takes the magic out of the moment. And I’m so glad that you said really staying present and staying in the moment. This is what I’m always telling people about dating. I mean, longtime listeners, how many times have I said it’s not about projecting that person into the future as your husband or could they meet my friends are My mom, but it’s it’s about being there with them and listening and responding authentically. So I like this, I like this method. I, I don’t want to just brush the past under the rug, though. And I’ve been in situations where I found it useful to advise clients to write a letter that they’re never going to send to an X that they feel they have unresolved issues with. Do you think that letters to the past have have a place in this process? Or is it more about just looking towards the future?

 

Tracy Crossley  21:37  

Or is there something else you recommend and healing through there? I mean, there’s a quite a few different things that in my work that I do to help people and it’s always backwards and present, because we don’t want to create the future from our past.

 

Damona  21:52  

Right. So so it’s a present letter to this person, just to clarify the letters that you were writing daily. It’s a present Letter to that person, even though you haven’t met them yet,

 

Tracy Crossley  22:03  

right. And it was really about the things on a deeper level that I wanted. I mean, there were some things that were surface level too. But it wasn’t, you have to be this height This way, you have to have this job. I wasn’t like that I made it more about, where’s my connection going to be to this guy, it’s going to be from my heart, because my head should not be in a relationship. romance and your mind really don’t get along when it comes to that. And so I look at it from the perspective of what is the heart one and that was very difficult because I was closed for a long time and I didn’t realize it. I had done all this work on myself. And I thought, No, I’m in a good place. But really, it wasn’t until I got to. I’m not in relationship I am afraid of dating. And I had to go through all the things I feared which to other people may or may not be fearful, but for me it was and so it was really getting to Who am I authentically when it came to dating Being my most authentic self, when I dated

 

Damona  23:02  

What were you afraid of?

 

Tracy Crossley  23:04  

I was actually afraid of being in a relationship. I had been divorced. This is my second marriage. But I had been divorced for a number of years. And I had dysfunctional relationships. I had, you know, my own attachment issues that I had worked through. I call it using the Laboratory of past relationships, and basically experimenting with my own growth through the relationship. So I had a lot to work through. And when I got to that point, about six months out, I had been working for years, but it was that recognition of, Hey, I haven’t really wanted a relationship up until now I’ve been too afraid of that.

 

Damona  23:44  

Hmm. That’s a big moment to acknowledge that acknowledge that fear. And I think probably everyone listening that is wanting a relationship and is not in it right now. There’s, there’s something there’s probably a fear component. attached to some element of dating or being in a relationship, or maybe even being in the wrong relationship and knowing it, and being afraid to leave that. So let’s talk about like healing and moving out of those relationships. You were just about to give me some very juicy, juicy exercises or tips on, on moving out of the past. Maybe it’s writing this letter to to your ex that you never send. What What is it that you recommend for people?

 

Tracy Crossley  24:35  

Well, there’s, I mean, as I started to say before, I went off on a tangent there, but I basically look at it from the perspective of when you look at the past, you want to find where the root of your pain is, whatever your fear is, is attached to some old pain, usually from childhood and what you want to be able to do is know where the root of it is, and you want to feel Your feelings around it as well. Like I have a big thing about feeling your feelings most people are in their heads. Again, your head is not your heart. And so to do the past work, you need to get into your feelings. You need to not be afraid of your feelings. So many people are afraid of them. You have anxiety for a moment, and you’re thinking, I can’t handle this. I don’t want anxiety again. But you can handle it. You can live through it. And it’s not the anxiety that really is going to give you the answers. It’s what’s that past pain. And then as you feel your past pain, you can make a choice, you can make a choice to do something different. But you have to do it and feel it. You can’t just think it because we just think it you’re not really changing anything.

 

Damona  25:41  

Hmm. And many times we end up in what I call snack relationships or just snacking along the way. And we’re full because I mean, we’ve been eating all day, but at the same time we would really like to have a meal actually we really need a meal to sustain ourselves. And you talk about something similar in not settling for bread crumbs. How do you know if you’re even settling for bread crumbs.

 

Tracy Crossley  26:09  

So I have a very easy way of knowing. And that is, if it feels like hard work, and it’s not easy on any level, you are in a breadcrumb relationship, because you’re always in a state of struggle always wanting more, not having more. And a lot of this, of course comes from inside in your own value. But when you’re looking at that other person as they don’t do enough, they don’t do what I want a list of complaints. You’re basically in a breadcrumb relationship because your needs aren’t being met, first by you, and then by the other person in a healthy relationship. It’s easier. These aren’t even issues that I have in my relationship. I don’t nag at my husband. He’s not nagging at me. It doesn’t mean it’s perfect. But there are not those components of working like a dog to make it happen. Mm hmm.

 

Damona  27:00  

What about those people who are dating, they’re not even necessarily in a relationship, but they’re just going from date to date to date. Just feeling unsatisfied. I just hear this from so many listeners like, well, I’m out here damona I’m doing the online dating thing, and I’m swiping, but I’m not meeting anybody that’s at my level.

 

Tracy Crossley  27:23  

Right? But see, here’s the thing. First of all, we don’t know the package that it’s going to come in. And a lot of times we think we know, but we’re really going on someone else’s checklist or we’re going on our past. So we’re not really open to what else there is out there. I wasn’t looking for a specific package. I was looking for somebody who was kind, okay, so somebody who’s kind and I’m attracted to that was basically what I was looking for.

 

Damona  27:50  

Tracy, that’s like, that seems like that could be anybody. Like people say to me, I don’t want to lower my exercise. But in a way that’s that’s pretty is that it sounds kind of modest, those expectations, but is it that hard to find someone that is kind?

 

Tracy Crossley  28:12  

Well, because you have to also be able to be kind to yourself to some degree, a lot of us aren’t very kind to ourselves and we’re very judgmental and not accepting. And so when we meet people, we apply those same strategies. Oh, this is wrong with this person that’s wrong with this person. And then we never feel good inside because we’re judging ourselves in the same way. So you have to have some level of self acceptance, that you’re just a flawed human being and that’s okay. We don’t know why we’re here. So nobody is saying to us, will you you need to do this and everybody in the world is agreeing upon it. There’s all sorts of different opinions. There’s all sorts of different subjectivity when it comes to someone’s perception. So why are you needing somebody to be perfect for you? When there’s no such thing you need a human being

 

Damona  29:00  

So glad that you said that I hope all of you are taking notes. Because you just said something extremely profound. First, the acknowledgement that you are flawed because I think we’re all trying and we look at social media, and we’re trying to live up to this idea of perfection. But that when you Okay guys, you don’t get, don’t get, don’t close up on me because I’m about to just repeat something that Tracy said that I really want to make sure you hear. When you are finding something wrong with every other person with every person that you’re dating, you have to stop and look at the way that you’re judging yourself, girl that is that is profound. And that’s something that I think most of us never do it look at like how, what is that self talk that that you’re saying to yourself? And then how are you applying that to someone else?

 

Tracy Crossley  29:57  

Right, because that goes back to the checklist. So When you were saying all the different characteristics someone is looking for, the reason that they are is because of their own shortcomings. Why do you need somebody to, let’s say, earn a certain amount of money? What does that mean to you? Why is there a meaning in it? I’m not saying it’s wrong or it’s bad. It’s where does it come from? A lot of times, it’s some kind of compensation for how you feel about you. Mm hmm.

 

Damona  30:22  

Yeah. And if you feel like I will, I can make that much money. I don’t need someone with that much money because I’m taking care of myself. But some of it is also these societal restrictions, whether it comes from comes from your parents, or it comes from the belief that the man is supposed to be the breadwinner, then then we start filtering things through these really arbitrary social constructs. not to get too esoteric,

 

Tracy Crossley  30:51  

but no, but it’s true. Because the thing is, I noticed that most of us do not know what a sense of well being is. We don’t know how to be happy. Happy inside. And we think that having these attributes in a partner that’s somehow going to make us happy, and it doesn’t, you’ve got to take care of your own happiness and bring that to the relationship rather than you need to make me happy. Mm hmm.

 

Damona  31:15  

Okay, I hope you all are listening and taking notes because this is really profound. We’re talking about New year, new year new you new relationship. What are some things can you give us like maybe one or two exercises that people can do to to get to get set up to bring in the right relationship? This time we talked about writing the letters. I’d love to give people like one more tip to take into dating Sunday that is coming up so that they’re not repeating that same pattern.

 

Tracy Crossley  31:49  

So there’s actually a couple things that come to mind. I mean, I have several but I’ll just start with these two. Number one is you have to be you and everybody says that but nobody really understands what that is. When you are being you, that means you’re not apologizing for you. That means you’re not trying too hard as in, you’re putting in extra effort. You put in enough effort in. In other words, if I want to go out on a date, and I want to wear a certain outfit, it’s because I feel good in it. I’m not thinking Oh, my dates gonna like this. Because if I think my dates gonna like it, and then I go, well, it’s kind of uncomfortable, but I know it looks good, but I don’t feel my best in it, then what am I doing? I am not being true to myself. So there’s all these ways that we show up to dating, where we sort of give ourselves away when we’re not actually taking care of ourselves. So being you is a big one. The other thing is when you go on a date with somebody, you want to focus on how you feel. This is a big one for most people, because most people go on a date and their whole focus is on the date. What’s that person like? What’s that person doing? I don’t like how they park their hair. I don’t like how they choose their food. There’s this critiquing going on, right? And so there’s no connection to the feeling you’re having of, am I enjoying this date? How do I feel without it being a reaction to the other person and what they’re doing? It’s, I’m here to be open, am I being open? Like I would check with myself when I was dating and go, am I being authentic? Or am I trying to get a second date? What am I doing? And then I would dial it back when I realized, Oh, I am trying to get a second date. And I would say something that was meaningful and honest about me to that person at that point. And I would always feel so much better, because I was just being me at that point. And that is so much easier.

 

Damona  33:38  

I I love that you said that and that it’s about how you feel on the day, I was just having this conversation with a client. And she can be very analytical and have a checklist. And I said, let’s put the checklist away and focus on feeling how, just how do you feel when you’re with this person? Let’s not think about the future or mechanics or anything, just that, that feeling. You’ve talked earlier about how people are afraid of their own feelings. And in a way, it’s almost like sometimes we’re afraid of feeling good. And I’ll admit, I even had this experience when I met my husband. And it was so good. And I had been used to such drama. Before that, there’s a part of me that almost was waiting for it to turn bad. Because it was such a foreign feeling of just feeling good. So even just being able to differentiate between like, this feels really comfortable. And this feels like I’m in my head. There are certain people that would trigger those old patterns in you, and others that will let you be more authentic.

 

Tracy Crossley  34:45  

Oh, I think so. I mean, when I met my husband, just to give you an idea, I was also doing online dating, and had been the whole way through when I was writing the letters and before and what’s funny is, I was attracting all these things. Different men, because I realized I was open, I didn’t get a better profile. I didn’t do anything differently, except open myself. And on an energetic level, because we are all human beings were made of energy. There’s just something it’s like when you walk in the room at the party, right? And you can read the room and tell who’s in a bad mood, who’s somebody who’s approachable. It’s that kind of energy that as human beings that we give off, or we can tell things are going on. So when you’re open, it’s different because you’re now experiencing yourself. And you’re not so concerned with, okay, what’s gonna happen to me But anyways, back to I had I think, like six guys. And yeah, it was really funny because it’s not at one time. And it never had been that way before. And one of the funniest things was one of them. I thought, Oh, this guy is really interesting. And then I felt that feeling and that feeling of Oh, if you go down this road with this, dude Here, you are going to be in the kind of relationship you’ve been in before and that this wasn’t my husband. This was some other guy. And it was only through a conversation I had with him. I didn’t even go out on a date with him. And it wasn’t because I was judging him. It was knowing the feeling I was having inside and going. And then and then and no Red Flag Warning.

 

Damona  36:18  

Oh, yeah, that’s something you will pick it up energetically, you will pick up that feeling of this is familiar but familiar in a bad way sometimes. But it could be also familiar in a good way. Like this person makes me feel comfortable, like when I’m around my friends, but just tuning into that can be a big shift. We’ve been talking about some very deep and heavy things. Just logistically, are there good or bad places to go on a first day in your opinion?

 

Tracy Crossley  36:49  

I really don’t think so. Because you mean obviously don’t go to a strip club or something. Like that sort of a you know, I guess if you both are into that, that’s fine. I mean, I’m talking about something where it’s super distracting and you’re not actually paying attention to the other person on a date. Like, I don’t think a great first date is a movie. But that’s my opinion, just because you’re not really learning anything about that person. And I think that that is important when you’re dating because you’re going in the store. You’re trying on the shoes. Oh, these shoes fit great are these shoes are a little tight. And that’s what dating is to me. So how can you tell if you’re distracted?

 

Damona  37:26  

Good point. What if you’re already in a relationship at this point, and you’re just not sure. This is the person for you that this is this is the right relationship right now. Are there things that that our listeners should be doing to assess that?

 

Tracy Crossley  37:44  

So you want to again, pay attention to yourself when I started dating my husband as an example, I realized I was smiling all the time. Okay, that’s unusual for me. When it came to dating or relationships, I was usually in some state drama, some kind of struggle. And I wasn’t struggling, that was one thing. And it felt easy. And I was smiling, I was having fun. I was the biggest goofball I’ve ever been. I mean, I was really

 

Damona  38:14  

me, that’s important, bringing out the humor and the fun side of you.

 

Tracy Crossley  38:19  

And it was really interesting, because I never felt when I was dating my husband that he was judging me and I wasn’t judging him. And that was also different. So those are signs of a healthy relationship. And that’s what you want to look for when you have the drama. And I hear this all the time, because I have a call in where people will ask me questions. And a lot of the questions are trying to take something that’s dysfunctional, and make it functional, but they’re the only one that’s wanting to make it functional. They’re not including like the partner in making it functional. So when you’re starting off there, unless both of you are committed to making the relationship good, you’re probably in a dysfunctional relationship that’s going to remain that way. doesn’t mean you have to remain that way you can do work on yourself. But it’s really knowing that you’re in a healthy relationship. It’s just it’s easy. I don’t know what your experiences, but that’s my experience. It is easy.

 

Damona  39:12  

Yeah. And I’ve told people about that before on the show that I think we’re addicted to that feeling of drama. And it should be easy and it should be a communication based. Like if you are afraid to really express how you feel or you feel like the communication is off like that is a really big red flag. And that’s a lot of the questions we get to is just like, I feel like they don’t understand me or whenever I say something, then it turns into a big to do and it doesn’t mean like that person’s a bad person or you’re a bad person. It’s just like, maybe this isn’t the right match for you right now in your life. And I believe in There being different relationships potentially at different parts of your life, I think there are different matches that there isn’t just one possible match for you. So sometimes you have to just take stock of what you have new year. And, and maybe what you have is not the relationship for this for the, for the immediate future.

 

Tracy Crossley  40:21  

I look at it that way too. And I always tell people, especially again, going back to my own dating story, but what I also share with clients and people that I talked to, it’s a journey. And when you allow it to not have an expiration date, I have to have something by this date, or it has to be in this package, and you allow it to be the journey. every relationship every date always brings you closer to having that healthy relationship. So you want to allow yourself to have experiences that’s another big thing. People do not want to have the experience. They want to either learn it in a book, think about it and go Oh, you know what, I don’t want to do that and then they never go have the experience or They think they know and they don’t go have the experience. But it really is about becoming resilient to disappointment. Allowing yourself and that’s emotional resilience. But allowing yourself those things you grow as a person, you grow as a partner, so that as you’re on that journey, and you finally get to the healthy relationship, you’ve picked up all these tools, and you become more yourself and more available.

 

Damona  41:23  

And then no matter what comes your way, you know how to deal with it. Just like you say, in your podcast, deal with it. What What made you title your podcast, deal with it? So

 

Tracy Crossley  41:36  

So the reason I named it deal with it was my literary agent. I had submitted my book title to her, and it was part of my book title. And then we’ve actually changed the book title. And, but But the thing is, I’m always saying that I will say deal with it. We’re all expletive. We are all screwed up. We are all messed up. We are all in That’s okay. And you can be happy anyway. Because the bottom line is happiness to me is what’s really important. Not being perfect, not trying to be what somebody else thinks you should be. And therefore, if you just deal with the fact that you’re just a flawed human being, okay, so what it becomes not a non issue to me,

 

Damona  42:22  

I say it actually to my daughter all the time, like, you know, she’ll, she’ll be railing against some something went wrong, and I’m like, Okay, now we know that’s the situation now we have to deal with it. Like, we can’t just stay in this state of crisis. We have to take action, and we have to process what’s going on. So I love that you’re doing that on your podcast, and you’re helping people deal with it on a daily basis. We have questions that have come to us from our listeners. They’re trying to deal with it, Tracy. So hopefully you can help them with these questions. All right, first question. Hi damona Hello. The guy I’m seeing still hasn’t officially made me his gf girlfriend yet, nor have I met his family but they do know about me his uncle even calls me his girl. Me and my guy had a Convo as to if I was someone he saw in his future. I asked, Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? Was that the right choice of words? This conversation happened on the phone? I feel like I didn’t get a straight answer out of him. What should I do? So she’s trying to figure out is this is this relationship going somewhere? I would say if she didn’t get the answer that she was looking for. It probably wasn’t the right choice of words at that moment because she didn’t get her answer out of it. How would you recommend she go forward now to get the answer about where this relationship is going?

 

Tracy Crossley  43:51  

Well, okay, so I have a little bit of a different spin. My question to her is, what is she actually communicating to him besides what she said? In other words, when you’re in a relationship with someone, and supposedly other people know about you, in this case, that’s what’s happening. But the problem is, she has confronted him with this. I don’t know how long they’ve been going out. But there’s an expectation. And it doesn’t sound like they’ve been communicating all the way along. Usually in a healthy relationship. You’re talking about this stuff, it’s not that you have to pull it out of a guy to get there. And if you’re having to pull it out of the guy, then you have to ask yourself, how hard am I working at this? And in what she said to him in a healthy relationship? Again, the guy would still answer you, the guy would still be like, oh, what do you mean, or, you know, wanting to elaborate on that so that you guys come to a really, you know, clear communicative point in your relationship. But it just sounds like to me, he’s not completely coming forward. I also think when you put it on the other person to describe what the future is, you’re kind of taking yourself out as a partner, where you’re a partner in this as well. You have the power of choice and you’re just leaving it up to the other person to make all the choices.

 

Damona  45:05  

You’re so so right about that. And it’s, it’s crazy how much power we do give away in relationships. And it sounds to me like this might be a newer relationship that that she is wanting to become something and kind of pushing it in that direction. And maybe also, you know, holiday time tends to bring out that sort of stress and obviously family knows about her but she’s not really sure what the relationship is. And this is a this is a pattern that I’m seeing a lot just culturally of people being in these situation ships and not knowing where they stand. So I it sounds like our advice is if you want the relationship to go somewhere, you have to be brave enough to share that desire for for things to be exclusive and

 

Tracy Crossley  45:57  

be clear because that’s what I think a lot of Women don’t do is that they are hoping they can just hint around or say things and then the guy is going to go Oh, well, here, this is what’s happening.

 

Damona  46:08  

Yeah. Yeah, guys, you’re not you’re not so into the subtlety.

 

Tracy Crossley  46:12  

Now. And the thing is, when you really are taking care of yourself, you’re going to ask as a direct question, because again, you have a choice in it. So if you’re asking, Hey, where do you think this relationship is at right now? Like right now, not in the future, because a lot of times we get caught up in what’s going to happen in the future that causes anxiety, it causes pressure, and it starts to drive a wedge in the relationship anyways, but it’s to be clear where you are now Hey, where do you feel like this is headed right now? What? What is going on with you because I know where I am. And this is where I am. Right? And then you can make a choice. Otherwise, you’re sort of in this Limbo land, waiting for somebody to come up with something. Well, maybe if I manipulate him this way, he’ll give me the answer I want meaning maybe I’ll be really nice or I’ll do something special. And then he’ll go oh my god, I can’t live without you. I want to be with you the rest of my life. But that’s all manipulation. And that’s not really being true to yourself either.

 

Damona  47:06  

Mm hmm. That’s great advice. That’s great advice. And I’ve done the other. Go, I have to. It doesn’t work, y’all. Okay. This is someone that that seems to have a little bit more clarity in communication, but still not going the way that she wants. This woman says, My fiance wants to get a gym membership, but only for him, which I don’t approve of New Year everybody’s thinking, fitness. Right? Well, here’s why she says I’m having doubts about it because last time he ended up flirting with his personal trainer. I had her blocked on his social media and blocked her number from texting him. I don’t understand why he needs a female personal trainer and not a male. Am I wrong to be concerned? Should I let him go alone to the gym? A big trust Yeah, trust issue here.

 

Tracy Crossley  47:56  

Yeah, and control and the thing is when you are trying to control Your partner, you are in a losing battle, you’re in a struggle that you’re going to be in the rest of your life, because it’s probably not just that. So let’s say that he doesn’t join the gym without her, then he may do something else. And she’ll have the same issue, she’ll find an issue somewhere else. It’s like when women get into this place, and I’ve had clients do this where they meet somebody, and then they have a time limit, well, it’s been six months, or it’s been a year we should move in together. And then if it’s not happening in that time, then they’re upset and they’re focused on that. And then it happens. And then it’s like, okay, when are we getting married? So it’s, it’s always shifting that focus. And the truth is, either you’re going to be able to trust your partner is committed to you or not. And then if not, you gotta ask yourself, why am I in a relationship with someone that I don’t feel as committed? And then asking yourself, Am I committed? So if this guy is committed, and he’s he’s saying her fiance so

 

Tracy Crossley  48:49  

the committed to something? Well,

 

Tracy Crossley  48:51  

yeah, words are wonderful, but it’s really about Is he really emotionally committed? I’m not saying he is or he isn’t. Okay? Because We don’t know. We’re not that it’s her perception of him and what he does when he’s not with her. So he could be flirting with somebody at the grocery store. He could be flirting everywhere he goes. But that’s neither here nor there. It goes back to how uncomfortable Are you in trying to control what he does or doesn’t do

 

Damona  49:18  

it? It’ll make you crazy. If you’re, if you’re worried about every place, he goes, who he’s going to be talking to, it will literally make you crazy.

 

Tracy Crossley  49:27  

Yes. And that’s why why do it? Well, now you might be attached, maybe you’re afraid of losing him. And I’m not saying that you shouldn’t have any fear of losing somebody, but you want to be with somebody because you love them and because you feel good. But this doesn’t sound like it feels good. And so you don’t want to be controlling him. You’re going to need to let go of that outcome and let him do what he does. And if he ends up disappointing you, if he ends up having another female trainer or what have you, then you got to make a choice. At that point. Do I want to be with somebody who makes these kinds of choices? Or not. And it’s pretty much that because it doesn’t sound like you’re going to be able to change him. And one other thing, he probably is in a state of rebellion on some level, if he feels that you’re trying to be his parent here.

 

Damona  50:13  

Yeah, that definitely happens. Nobody wants to be controlled and and then when you get resistance, then you push back. Even harder. It sounds like, we’re just gonna have to deal with it. We’re gonna have to rip the band aid off and deal with it, just as Tracy does on her podcast, deal with it. Make sure you check that out. We’ll put the link in the show notes. And you can also find Tracy on Facebook at transformative coach and on Twitter @TracyCrossley, Again, that’ll be in the show notes for you. And also, if you’re ready for a change in the way that you move into relationships, maybe you need an insecure attachment cleanse, so you can do that 30 day program with Tracy, thanks so much for being here.

 

Tracy Crossley  51:00

Well, thank you for having me. This has been great. I’ve really enjoyed it.

 

Damona  51:03  

Before we wrap this up, I need to talk to you all about something. It’s been a while since we’ve done a de monas diatribe, because there’s a lot to say about this. There’s been controversy about this topic. All right. There is this convention happening in Orlando on May 1. If you got nothing better to do, you should go to the 22 convention, which media has affectionately referred to as the mansplaining convention? It’s being put on by a guy on Twitter called beach muscles, who calls himself the president of the manosphere. Obviously, I was joking, you should not go to this conference. But if you want to know what you would get for the low, low price of $2,000, you can sit in a convention center in Orlando, while men mansplain femininity to you. It’ll cover topics like feminism versus femininity, getting pregnant, being wiped up and getting fit because he says women’s health is in a major crisis today. Don’t believe the hype ladies do not buy into this idea that you have to change Who you are to become more dateable. It’s 2020. You can be a boss and still be a lady. You can choose if you want to have kids or not. You can delay marriage until you get your career together or skip it entirely. And you can be beautiful in

 

Tracy Crossley  52:13  

any

 

Damona  52:14  

body. Thanks for the help beach muscles. But no thanks. I think ladies are doing pretty damn great just as they are right now. I’m sorry, I got a little worked up producer Leah.

 

Leah Schell  52:26  

But now this is a topic that deserves such a response.

 

Damona  52:31  

I cannot believe that in this day and age. He thinks that he has the right to come into a convention to create a convention for women to teach women how to be women.

 

Leah Schell  52:42  

Also, I want to know who’s buying these tickets like I can’t

 

Damona  52:45  

I can’t even believe that this thing exists. And of course it’s getting tons of press. So I just had to throw my two cents into it and say Don’t even think about doing this workshop. But if you want to do an actual workshop That will help you please join me for why dating apps won’t work for you. It’s a virtual free webinar for anyone men and women I don’t discriminate, and you can sign up. Sign up at thedatingsecret.com and keep coming back to dates and mates. I’ll keep giving your love life a boost all throughout the year. We will put all the links from today’s show in the show notes at dates and mates calm and we’ll also show you how you can get a hold of Tracy Crossley my amazing guest for today’s show. Also, if you are really ready to get started and date differently in 2020, the 30 day dating playbook could be your solution. I’ve taken the five steps to find your match that have worked for hundreds of my clients. over the many years I’ve been coaching and created an easy to follow 30 day program that will lead you to the love that you deserve all before Valentine’s Day. You can find out more at 30 day dating calm and again that link will be in the show notes at dates and mates calm as well. I hope you enjoyed episode. 291 of dates and mates. Again, I’m at damona Hoffman on all the socials. Please join in the conversation. Send me your questions for future episodes and share this episode with a friend. Until next week, I wish you happy dating

Fleabag & Blended Families

BLENDED FAMILIES ARE THE WAVE

On today’s episode, we’re talking all about blended families, tradition, and the holidays.

We like to keep you up to date and aware of what’s trending here at Dates & Mates. And no surprise but here in the US and worldwide, blended families are becoming more popular – whether that be blended races, blended cultures, blended religions, or two families joined through re-marriage.

So if you’re dating, in a new relationship, or are re-married, you will likely at some point find a point in your life where you are looking to blend your family traditions with your significant other. Blended families are becoming more and more prominent and we want to keep you informed!

More on that later, first we have headlines! 

DATING DISH (3:00)

Should we ban Plantation-style weddings?

You may know that Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively’s 2012 wedding pictures have been “shadow-banned” because they took place at Boone Hall Plantation in Charleston. Is it time to ban plantation-style weddings once and for all? Damona and Carmelia weigh in.

Are you a Fleabag?

If you’ve seen the show “Fleabag” on Amazon Prime (WATCH IT!! IT’S GREAT!) you know that “fleabagging” is making lots of really, really bad dating decisions over and over and over again.

What emoji should you use in your Tinder Profile?

Tinder’s EOY breakdown of Tinder profiles is here! Which emoji should you be using on your profile? hint:

BLENDED FAMILIES (15:24)

Joining us today is celebrity matchmaker, and online dating expert, Carmelia Ray. 

Carmelia is an internationally acclaimed matchmaker for high achieving men and the quality women they’re searching for. You may also know her as a TV personality on shows such as Mom Vs. Matchmaker, The Real Housewives Of Toronto, and most recently A User’s Guide to Cheating Death. Carmelia’s advice has been featured in AskMen, Variety, The Hollywood Reporter, OK! Magazine, and so much more. She recently launched a dating app here in LA called Censio.

When we decided to do an episode on blended families and holidays, and blended traditions, our first thought was that we had to get Carmelia’s input on this episode. 

Fun Fact: When she’s not supporting clients in their search for love, she’s traveling and loving life with her extraordinary husband, and family (4 kids and American bulldog).

Today we talk:

  • Sixteen percent of children live in blended families.
  • The number of kids living in blended families has been stable for nearly thirty years.
  • Children of Hispanic, black, and white backgrounds are equally likely to live in this type of family.
  • Children from Asian families are half as likely as Hispanic, black, or white kids to be part of a blended family.
  • Six of ten women’s remarriages create blended families.
  • 60-70% of marriages involving children with a previous marriage
  • 1 in 5 adults raised in interfaith homes
  • Most common interfaith household is protestant/catholic
  • Mixed faith partners shot to 40% (20% in the 60s) DOUBLED SINCE THE 1960s
  • Today, mixed-race marriages are at a high, and the number of multiracial Americans is growing three times as fast as the population as a whole, according to the Pew Research Center. 
  • Although multiracial people account for only an estimated 7 percent of Americans today, their numbers are expected to soar to 20 percent by 2050.
  • As a matchmaker, how much do you pay attention to things like race and religion?
  • What are the most important factors in compatibility for blended couples
  • How can you blend families over the holidays – first holiday with a partner’s kids or introducing a partner to your kids.

Follow Carmelia on all the socials (@carmeliaray) and don’t forget to use the code “singlebells” for your first unlimited month of Censio free!

TECHNICALLY DATING (38:00)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show!

Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • (From Instagram) I’m on all of the dating apps and I’ve been looking trying not to be too picky. But I can’t tell if I’m on the apps because I’m scared of being single and I feel like I should be. Or if I’m doing poorly being because I’m scared or I’m doing poorly because I’m not interested. I’ve always seen myself in the future with kids, but there was never a man attached to that future, and I would like to have sex but I’m not into just going on hook up apps because I feel intimidated from being out the game for so long.
  • (From Instagram) What is the youngest appropriate age I can date? I’m a 34 year old man.

 

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:17  

Hello Lovers and welcome to Dates & Mates. I’m your host certified Dating Coach Damona Hoffman, and thank you for making this show your source for dating and relationship advice, especially holiday dating and relationship advice. I know this is the time of year that a lot of you are thinking about dating challenges, relationship challenges, and I’m really excited that you took the time to join us during this busy holiday season. 

We love to keep you aware of what’s trending. And it’s no surprise that here in the US, especially blended families are trending and becoming more popular. So whether that be blended races, blended cultures, blended religions or two families joined through remarriage. Whether you’re doing dating or in a new relationship or are remarried, you will likely find at some point in your life you may be looking to blend your family with someone else in someone else’s traditions. 

And that is why we are doing today’s show to give you the resources to navigate that challenge of blending. Joining me today is celebrity matchmaker and online dating expert, Carmelia Ray.

 

Carmelia Ray  1:24  

Hi Damona!

 

Damona  1:26  

Hi! I got to tell people about you. She’s an internationally acclaimed matchmaker. You also probably know her from TV. She is the host and matchmaker of a show called “Mom versus Matchmaker”. Yeah, she’s the matchmaker. She’s also been on The Real Housewives of Toronto and most recently a user’s guide to cheating death. You’ve seen her and asked men variety, The Hollywood Reporter, Ok magazine and so much more. She’s also become a partner in a dating app

 

Carmelia Ray  1:55  

Matchmaking app! Yes. We want to do distinct ourselves from like the swiping apps to a relationship based and relationship oriented app. So this is why we call it a matchmaking app.

 

Damona  2:09  

Well, I can’t wait to hear more about that. And I can’t wait to talk about the headlines with you. We have some juicy ones this week, including a wedding tradition that is being banned.

 

And fleabagging. Are you doing it? We’ll tell you what this new dating term means and maybe how you should be avoiding it in the future. 

 

Plus, we’ll break down Tinder’s end of year report on this year’s hottest dating trends.

 

And then we’ll answer your questions, including how to master dating apps, if they make you feel scared, confused and intimidated. I know a lot of you are nodding your heads to that. Plus what ages are appropriate for you to date. 

 

All that and more on today’s Dates & Mates. Carmelia, I didn’t give you some smooches earlier. Maybe I’ll give you some smooches now – 

 

Carmelia Ray  2:58  

And you’re gonna give me a real smooth or is it Virtual?

 

Damona  3:00  

a virtual smooch. I don’t want to make it weird. And then we’ll do these headlines. 

 

All right. Did you know that Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively are shadow banned, their wedding pictures? You cannot find them on many in many publications because they got married in 2012 at Boone Hall Plantation in Charleston. You may recognize it as the location for the notebook, which is probably why they chose it. Right. But y’all, it’s a plantation. It’s a plantation. Yeah. So this this week Pinterest has banned plantation style wedding pictures from their whole site. And there’s a people are taking sides like the not saying we don’t want to. We want to celebrate love wherever people decide to have it. But is there a reason to not promote these plantation style weddings as Something that are grand and beautiful when you really consider the history

 

Carmelia Ray  4:04  

I mean you know, you you when you consider the history you’re stepping and celebrate you know you’re on a grounds where you know some bad things happen right and so historically It’s a place where attached to a lot of really awful memories so you’re trying to the only thing that that I might think is positive that you might want to replace those memories and and with something more positive and and have the past be in the past but I guess you know I have not i’m not personally related to that. So I want to emphasize with people that that it might offend.

 

Damona  4:42  

Yeah, well as a as a black person in America I am I am personally connected to it. But at the same time, I think there is something empowering and being able to say like, now I can choose if I want to I can have my my wedding This spot, right and like you’re saying kind of re, like, rewire exactly that the reasoning that some people use the N word which I never use, right, but they’re like, we are redefining it for ourselves. And so in a way, I guess that is a possibility if we can look at it that way, but I’ll tell you I have friend that that’s from Louisiana and was getting married and looking at venues. And one of them called the the, obviously this the homes that the the enslaved people lived in right quaint cottages that your guests could stay on on the grounds and I was like, I don’t know that you get to do that. I don’t know that you get it right. The history. You have to acknowledge what the history is and say like maybe we can educate people by inviting them to this place to see where where this history happens. So

 

Carmelia Ray  5:48  

I mean, forgive, I really don’t know about plantations or their actual people like, are they abandoned now? Are they

 

Damona  5:55  

working on the other like their giant mansions that are beautiful locations for writings but have like you said this horrible, dark, very attached to it. So I don’t know if it’s it’s really the place of, of Pinterest. Sure ban it because again, if you ban it, you’re trying to you’re trying to negate it from Well,

 

Carmelia Ray  6:17  

I mean, and then what happens what happens to the, you know, freedom of speech, right? opportunity like you can’t express this is your wedding day. I mean, I don’t know, I think it’s hard for me, I want to I want to not talk about that. But it’s great that you’re bringing up that point. We talked

 

Damona  6:35  

about the stuff you do to me, it’s another tough thing to do. People that are in terrible relationships, cycles, these bad relationship choices again and again and again. Cosmo has coined a new term called fleabag. For those of you who are fans of the show like I am, you know that

 

Carmelia Ray  6:59  

there is a show I’ve been out of the woodwork here so like like I’m a Netflix person in my free time. Yeah, there’s a show called fleabag

 

Damona  7:07  

there’s a bag okay and in it the main character is just a train wreck date or she dates people who are unavailable. I won’t. I won’t spoil it for anyone okay seen it or for you. Okay, but she makes some really bad relationship choices particularly in season two. Okay,

 

Carmelia Ray  7:25  

like where the audience is going. Oh, no, you didn’t

 

Damona  7:27  

know Yeah. Oh my god. I have a friend that is Yang or has fleabag or we’ve all fleabag Darcy Yeah.

 

Carmelia Ray  7:34  

Oh my god. Yes. Not to be confused with tea bag. That’s right. Just believe earlier on the show.

 

Damona  7:41  

Let’s just say I want to get some advice since you are such a an expert in dating and relationships and matchmaking. Yes. For people that are in these toxic cycles of makeup, break up. relationships that aren’t serving them what’s like one tip you could give them to break that cycle.

 

Carmelia Ray  7:58  

get professional help. Number one, I mean, tip number one, we’re both coaches,

 

Carmelia Ray  8:03  

right?

 

Carmelia Ray  8:04  

And a lot of times people don’t know or they can’t recognize or even in that cycle, do you know you know, that friend and you keep talking to that person and they don’t do anything differently. So, make a different move, make a different decision, get help get support, put yourself outside of that toxic relationship and give yourself space. I think for people that continue to go back, they’re just either that again, it maybe has to do with their attachment styles. Are they anxious and avoidant? Do they are they addicted to this push pull type of situation? Right and, and so a normal relationship for them is foreign. I will

 

Damona  8:42  

say that was definitely my experience before I was used to the drama to me drama felt like attraction. And that like, you know that that we’re fighting now we broke up, we’re making up the

 

Carmelia Ray  8:56  

amazing

 

Damona  8:58  

highs and the lows, that starts with Feel like the norm. And it’s done. I think that’s what people really need to hear. Well, when you

 

Carmelia Ray  9:05  

thought a flea, I mean, that is so relevant, right? You just want it to go away or squash that but

 

Damona  9:12  

always jumping around

 

Carmelia Ray  9:15  

in your face is just like, Oh, yeah, I love that term. So I think want to be if you if you know that you can’t get out of this or you recognize this cycle and it is toxic, get help, get support, ask for you know, go to people that you trust, and maybe even go outside of your family. I really strongly believe in coaching and working with professionals, the experts that can maybe even do an intervention for you. They might have to drag you out of this relationship so that you can have the space you need to really see yourself outside of what you’re going on when you’re in the thick of it. It’s hard to get out of

 

Damona  9:52  

yet. So let’s say you’ve done the work and you’re ready to date again. Maybe Tinder A place for you to start. Tinder came through with their 2019 year in swipe report. This is their end of year evaluation about the most talked about topics particularly focusing on Gen Z. That’s their biggest

 

Carmelia Ray  10:14  

story. I wasn’t even aware Tinder did an annual end of year report. It’s like I know match.com does singles and managers singles

 

Damona  10:20  

in America. So when did this start? Maybe this year? Okay. I don’t know. But this is not really the last year. Okay. Actually, for a number of different countries. They have one for the UK. They have one for Australia, France, Germany, India. So

 

Carmelia Ray  10:34  

all that data that I mean, they are amazing data. Yeah,

 

Damona  10:37  

yeah. So if you’re listening from another country, check out your report, but I’ll tell you what the US report said and I’m so curious Yeah. Gen Z. daters were more likely to mention causes or missions than a travel in their Bibles. But millennials old old asked millennials. They were three times more likely to talk travel. I find that When I’m when I’m coaching people of different generations, because I have all the way from like, late 20s, all the way up to late 60s and even 70s and

 

Carmelia Ray  11:09  

Gen Z, right, and Gen Z

 

Damona  11:11  

were younger than millennials.

 

Carmelia Ray  11:12  

Yeah, younger than me not got it.

 

Damona  11:14  

And so the trends are different for different age groups. And I find that really interesting. As I’m coaching people. Now I have to say like, well, if you’re dating someone over 40, you definitely do the phone call. But if you’re dating someone between 30 and 40, you might not want to do the phone call. If you’re dating someone under 30. If you do the phone call, you’re going to get you’re going to get shadow back.

 

Carmelia Ray  11:33  

Well, you know, I think I think Gretta The is the poster child for Generation Z, right? So yeah, she is the poster child for Gen Z, which is why I think a lot of high schoolers, and it’s so funny. I work with a lot of teachers and different singles, who work with young people. And when you ask young people were talking even like elementary and primary, they’re all about wanting to help someone My daughter, my three year old is like, Mommy, can I help you? Are you okay? Daddy? Are you okay? Like you stub your toe and she wants to, like, admin immediately fix it. I said I have a headache. She goes and gets her pretend doctor kit. Like, I don’t know what it is about these young young people that are really focused on helping others whereas, you know, Millennials just want to get away and not work.

 

Damona  12:23  

Like our core audience, but apparently you’re right on with with the reference to gretta Yeah, climate change social justice, the environment and gun control were really popular phrases and oh, my girl files in emojis. emojis are are on the case. Yeah, I have had various feelings about emojis because I definitely use them like anyone that’s done my texting trap or texting 10 commandments training they know that I’m, I’m all about using emojis as mood modifiers but I’ve been seeing them more in place of words in profiles to kind of short Cut the the conversation

 

Carmelia Ray  13:02  

I I love emojis I have again various children we’re going to talk about blended blended families but my various my various and sundry curious show, I should qualify that I have children in three different age groups, primary elementary and young adult. And they all speak to me an emoji. Like they all speak to me in emotion. It’s like very few words and more signs and yet I can completely understand it you can understand I can show that there are some things that emojis you know are better for

 

Damona  13:34  

Okay, what about this one the most popular emoji is not was not the eggplant is actually the face palm emoji like the face the hand in front of the face like the kind of my head yeah 41% increase in use this year.

 

Carmelia Ray  13:50  

That we all have a we have more dumb moments. Like why did I do that like that is a permanent emoji in my phone.

 

Damona  14:00  

Want to connect with people? definitely use emojis. Yes, you can connect on female superheroes Captain Marvel lizzo Elizabeth Warren, we’re trying to go with the overall theme of superheroes. All of those were very big topics and 2019 also, Jonas Brothers, who knew? I didn’t know that was still a thing. Yeah, job rose. They call it in

 

Carmelia Ray  14:22  

the urine swipe. I work. I couldn’t be one song.

 

Carmelia Ray  14:26  

I’m so dating myself. I’m so sorry people.

 

Damona  14:29  

Well, we’ll put the link if you want to brush up on it will put the link to the articles we talked about in today’s dating dish, on our blog at Dates & Mates. com. We will be back with Carmela in just a moment talking more about blended families. But first I have to ask you, are we friends? Are we friends on social media? Are you getting all the bonus Dates & Mates content through Instagram and Twitter and Facebook? Is my blog bookmarked on your browser? If not, I want you to know that the New Year’s right around the corner and I have some Very special things lined up to help you meet your dating and relationship resolution so don’t miss out follow me @Damona Hoffman on all the socials and while you’re at Dates & Mates calm for this week’s show notes. Take a look at the rest of the blogs. We have new content coming at you every week with dating and relationship tips. We will be talking about blended families in just a moment. So stick around.

 

Damona 15:24

Lovers we are back with Carmela Ray. She is an internationally known celebrity Matchmaker, online dating expert and so much more. Welcome back to the show.

 

Carmelia Ray  15:33  

Thank you.

 

Damona  15:34  

You may be like now the reigning champ. I think this is your

 

Carmelia Ray  15:38  

I think it’s been you’ve had seven years and I travel every time and I’m not even from here. I fly all the way from Toronto just to be on Dimona show. Literally, I call her and I say I’m here and and we graciously make time for me. So that is probably number four.

 

Damona  15:54  

I know you’re not coming just for the show, but we’re lucky to have you and you’re coming at the right time because At this time of year, I get so many questions from our listeners about blending families about blending traditions for the holidays. I know you know a few things about that both through working with your clients and even through your own experience. And when you’re not supporting clients and you’re not working with sense CEO and launching the number one matchmaking app, you are living the fabulous life traveling with with your extraordinary husband.

 

Carmelia Ray  16:28  

Andrew do today. Yes.

 

Carmelia Ray  16:29  

And my children, you have kids, you got

 

Damona  16:32  

various and sundry children, various and sundry kids and your two Bulldogs.

 

Carmelia Ray  16:36  

Oh, one one now. So I have I know. I know what. Anyway, so I have I have and I’ll tell you the ultimate blended example of the ultimate blended family because my older children Michaela and Brandon because 21 Brandon’s 15 is from my first marriage. My youngest daughter who’s turned who turned three this year is from my current Marriage, and then mom and then my husband has a daughter who is my step daughter. And she’s one year younger than Michaela. So there’s four kids in total. Very blended. I don’t even know how to keep track of the kids.

 

Damona  17:14  

Okay, well, let’s, I have to and I can’t. Myself. Yeah. But looking at the stats, 16% of children live in blended families. But you actually found an interesting stat that you shared with me. Yes, that 60 to 70% of marriages involving children with from a previous marriage don’t make it Yeah, they fail. And actually, I just

 

Carmelia Ray  17:37  

worked with a recent client, who was super sad story and she had shared with me that the reason her last relationship ended was because the teenage daughter of the man she was with could not get along with her, and to the point where she had said, had had put the dad in an awkward position to choose between Between the partnership or her,

 

Damona  18:02  

then the daughter,

 

Carmelia Ray  18:04  

the daughter said, Dad and ultimatum you know, it’s either me, I mean, you know, and she backed out as well, because she’s like, she has a daughter too. So there’s her daughter, there’s this daughter. And then there’s the the, you know, position that she held that it’s going to made it very challenging. And the sad part was the relationship between the couple was solid, but the relationship between the child and the partner, even though it wasn’t solid, clearly, the child was dealing with whatever she was dealing with. And, and that’s part of the issue. Sometimes kids, they just do not want to see another person in the role of their mother or father and regard and it’s unfortunate.

 

Damona  18:46  

It’s really unfortunate. What do you think people can do? Like some of our listeners now are dating people with kids? Get looking for marriage? Are there tips that you can give in terms of especially during the holidays, how to You set things up so that you can be successful with the other person’s kids so that you don’t get into that ultimatum situation.

 

Carmelia Ray  19:06  

Wow, there, you know, there are so many moving parts in a blended family. And it also depends the advice is going to be different based on the stage of the relationship, how comfortable the children are, I think if you’re trying to create a bond, and we’re talking about the holidays, and it’s always great for you to try to plan something with the kids, but like this potential step brothers and sisters together, because then you start your test that unity, whereas if the kids are going with their parents, and they never get to see each other, you’re also missing out on an opportunity to, to share a really awesome moment, right? And then at the same time, it’s when when when the other partner wants to have the children, how does it work with the schedule, right, because the dad may want to spend time with the kids and the new partner, and then it just doesn’t align. So you really want to get agreement between the couples? And then, you know, integrate the kids. And also I think it’s really important to ask the kids what they want, right? Because what are they comfortable with? Maybe they don’t want to spend time with the family. So there’s or with their, you know, the people, the other children so to speak. So there’s so much to consider there.

 

Damona  20:20  

What if you are dating someone that that has kids and you don’t have kids yourself? Okay. So that’s a lot of our listeners that are they’ve never been married, they don’t have kids, but they’re like, I want to be a part of this family. Is there a way to, to integrate, or should you just let the parent pace the forming of that relationship?

 

Carmelia Ray  20:45  

You know, it’s one thing for I mean, I think it’s a great sign when somebody who doesn’t have children is dating someone with kids and wants to really have that relationship. It’s showing you that they want to be part of that family and sees that diamond As a being in their future, that being said, you can never force this outcome because you’re talking about the children’s well being is I think the most important consideration is, are the kids ready for that? And the rule of thumb, and although there’s no real rule is you wouldn’t introduce your children to a partner, unless you felt that this was going to be a long term partner. Otherwise, your kids might just feel like there’s a revolving door of partners. And that would have a negative impact as well, because they may be already suffering, the loss of the parent leaving, and now they might form this attachment to this new person, and then they’re gone. Right. So the, I think it’s important to for that person to express they would like to have that involvement, and to let them know because sometimes they don’t even say anything, right. And then the person with the child thinks, do they even want to?

 

Damona  21:52  

Yeah, I need this like, do you do you as the single as the person without the kid, need to drive it and say it really like to me meet your son or daughter? Or do you need to wait for that person to open the door? Because,

 

Carmelia Ray  22:07  

like, as a parent, I think I’d probably have to pace that right. I think you also have to look at the strength of the partnership. First of all, right? Like, is there a reason the person is not wanting to introduce this person to you? Because if you really like this person, and you’re dating them, and you haven’t yet it’s six months, and you don’t want them to meet the kids, and it’s like, What’s up with that?

 

Damona  22:32  

Yeah, I have a client that she and her ex husband had, they made a rule that they would not introduce anyone to their child, neither of them until they were at the point of, of either moving in together or marriage. And I will say it’s, it was a little tricky, like there was once where they died. And this, he came to drop off flowers for her birthday and her son was there. And she was like, it’s great that he was romantic, but it Same time, in honor he broke that crossed a bit of a line. So it can it can become really complicated, especially when you have certain rules. As a parent that you haven’t communicated, she

 

Carmelia Ray  23:10  

didn’t communicate that that’s really her bad, right? But if he stopped cross the line, and she knew that we weren’t gonna introduce and then he did it anyway. I think that’s a red flag. I really do. Because if he’s gonna stay together,

 

Carmelia Ray  23:25  

see massive Red

 

Damona  23:28  

Nose Oh, she is like the Nostradamus of dating and relationships, man. Well, when we’re talking about blended families, I’ll share my own story because I come from like, multiple blended family on multiple levels. Like my mom already had a kid when she met my dad. My sister was like, my half sister was like about nine. And then my dad is Jewish. My mom is Christian, and she’s African American. My dad is white. So my family is. So first I want to talk about interface. Okay, relationships and as a matchmaker I’m sure you deal with this. Oh my

 

Carmelia Ray  24:04  

gosh, comes up a lot

 

Damona  24:06  

mixed faith partners actually, the number of mixed faith partners doubled since the 1960s. So now we’re looking at 40% of households are mixed faith and that that could be Protestant Catholic that could be Jewish Christian could be Muslim. I deal with this every day Damona every day What do you help first of all when someone comes to you and they’re like, I want to find love. I’m say Jewish I see as my first writing gig was with JD So okay, this has a special place all the Jewish mothers that are like, please help my son. A very, very special place in my heart. Okay, but if they’re like, I must find love. I’m say 38 Yes, and I’m looking for love. I’ve only been dating Jewish. Okay, Jewish man. How’s that been working for him?

 

Carmelia Ray  24:57  

Is that what you say? No, but I’m saying to them, right.

 

Carmelia Ray  25:00  

You know it really a man? It’s really a matter of how much importance and, and and how often How does your faith show up in your life? Because if it doesn’t show up that often your life Why should it show up in your dating life and in your partner choice? Yeah, that a value that you really is it you’re trying to make your parents happy? Is it something that if you could meet the right guy, and you really think about your core values, if religion or faith isn’t top of those core values, then it’s it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t weigh more than having someone who you can trust or is loyal or reliable or has a strong sense of right and wrong. Like I think 100% of people would say they’re spiritual. I think that’s the word. Right like religious

 

Damona  25:48  

spirit. Yeah, exactly. I mean, spiritual but not

 

Carmelia Ray  25:50  

exactly right.

 

Carmelia Ray  25:54  

So this happens a lot where and really it’s sometimes authentically is frustrating or or challenging for me, because I’ve got someone that has this strong line in the sand about who they want to meet. And yet their religion isn’t even what drives them. And it’s not even they don’t go to synagogue, they don’t really even practice the things that that they’re supposed to as a devout Jewish or Christian person. And yet they put that in as a consideration or must in a partner. So I my coaching to that person would really be to be open and flexible and dating somebody that is outside of their faith when their faith isn’t. Really. Yeah, if you want a deal breaker and it’s not obvious in their day to day life, yeah, right now, if they have parents and family and they’ve got other family considerations that would make dating someone outside of that race or faith problematic. I could understand why they’d still be seeking a partner. However, it’s proven time and again, that when somebody meets somebody That they love. And you can just see they make them happy. Like, nobody’s going to say no to that kind of a relationship where they just know this person is happier, healthier and just elated when they’re with that person.

 

Damona  27:11  

Yeah, I just read an article about this couple. The man it was from. He was from Asia and the wife was from Ghana, I believe. And what a mix it was. They were both gorgeous. Yes. And the dad initially was like, Don’t even bring her to my house. I don’t want to meet her. And they he spent the, the now they are now married and the husband spent months of just introducing her over time telling her that they wanted him her to come to the house, even when they were like don’t bring her here. Yes, to kind of create those moments where they could get to know her as a person was there a happy ending? There’s a happy another married and the dad showed up to the wedding. And like sometimes I feel like parents say these things like don’t even come here if your husband is an Indian, like don’t even don’t even come in my house with with

 

Carmelia Ray  28:05  

it’s really sad, guys. I mean, you would think that in this day and age that millennials and Gen Z would not have to deal with that. And yet, I see this with my daughter’s friends who are different religions and cultures where they’re literally dating someone outside of the faith outside of their race behind their parents back in in relationship that’s been going on for years, terrified to tell their family about this partnership, because of the strong influence, cultural influence inside of that dynamic. Yeah, well, so young people

 

Damona  28:38  

as the host of mom versus Matchmaker, gosh, so if anyone hasn’t seen the show yet, it’s fabulous, and you should definitely check it out. But the premise is basically a mom does a setup for their child and Carmela does a set up for the child and then the child who’s an adult will choose who they think is the bedroom and

 

Carmelia Ray  28:59  

I have three jewels. Moms, they all chose Jewish people, right? They literally did. And you could tell the choice like it was so funny. And not even that the Jamaican moms and anybody who was in a cultural like, like where they were culturally specific, they ended up choosing the moms choice, which was clear because the mom had an idea or perception of who their child should date based on religion, ethnicity, culture, family values, tradition. And I chose a match based on what the person wanted. And what the person wanted, had nothing to do often with what the mom wanted, which is why one in those cases, right? And not always though, sometimes, I think that that they the kids favorite, the mother’s choice, knowing that it was mom’s choice, and if they didn’t pick mom’s choice, they’d be in a whole heap of trouble.

 

Damona  29:52  

So let’s say you have not chosen the moms choice and yet approaching the holidays and it’s time for you to figure out how to introduce this person into your family and your life. What would you recommend to any of these clients on mom versus matchmaker? Like, how do they begin that conversation? A Mom, I didn’t kick your person.

 

Carmelia Ray  30:10  

Yeah, that’s so interesting. And you know what, I don’t know that I would use a major family holiday to introduce somebody. I think that you avoid all that because you’re not just impacting that person. It’s everybody’s holiday, right? So you don’t want to make it about you must, you can’t force somebody to like your partner, you can take a stand. But if you’re willing to be that person and you have that stand, then you need to know that there it could ruffle some feathers. So if your intention is not to ruffle feathers, it’s better to have that conversation before the actual holiday. Or just express where you draw the line in the sand and say, Listen, I love this person. If you really want me to attend, it’s important that he comes he or she comes with me. Or you’re not going right yeah,

 

Damona  30:55  

you have to set your partner up for success. And that’s a really good point that this is a is a time when it’s already the stakes are high the the emotional intensity is off the charts.

 

Carmelia Ray  31:07  

Yeah, I read I don’t know who it was but it was like how did reduce drama over the holidays and you don’t bring somebody new to a family holiday function when first of all, they would completely they’re, they’re the opposite polar opposite of what who your parents want you to date. That is not the time in place to bring someone over the holidays. Oh, I

 

Damona  31:26  

was just so nervous to me. My husband’s family. Thanksgiving was the big, big holiday in there. Did

 

Carmelia Ray  31:32  

you get introduced? Were you already dating though?

 

Damona  31:34  

Before we were dating? Yeah, we were dating and I had met his parents, but he does this big family event where it was like aunts, uncles, cousins. I love those

 

Carmelia Ray  31:44  

Filipinos. So we have like hundred people in our family.

 

Damona  31:48  

It wasn’t quite Filipino level. But it was like, it was like, you know, yeah, big family. And I remember this moment we had been dating at that point over a year but like, yeah, I didn’t know where it was going and They were like, we’re gonna take the holiday picture. And everybody you know, they do they do, like

 

Carmelia Ray  32:07  

do you like sitting off to the I was?

 

Damona  32:10  

Like, I’m not trying to be in the family in the family. Yeah. And they’re like Damona get in the picture, get the picture. And I just felt so uncomfortable because they thought, what if I’m on the picture? And they’re gonna be going through the pictures like,

 

Carmelia Ray  32:24  

Who was that broad that you

 

Carmelia Ray  32:28  

can feel that but look at that they were so gracious. And you didn’t automatically go in there. I mean, you had respect and you’re

 

Damona  32:36  

set to the side that tells a lot about my family of origin I guess and like the baggage you know, we all bring like different ideas and different

 

Carmelia Ray  32:44  

but I I was dating somebody where you know, the family was like, get them out of the picture. Not in the pictures not in the white. Why is he even hear

 

Damona  32:54  

my mommy like he’s not like Tell him to go outside. He’s not in the picture. But she loves My husband from from the beginning, but I will say it was an opportunity for anyone that’s listening that may be in that situation, it was an opportunity for me to feel like, Oh, I’m included. And then I also thought he must be saying very nice things about me to them.

 

Carmelia Ray  33:14  

Yes, I can see now that’s probably because she relationships had it, and you’re married. And you have now two children. So he saw the future with you, which is great. But in terms of blended families, unfortunately, we don’t get that happy picture. I mean, I experienced the other side of the blended family where the partner I had chosen was somebody my family didn’t like, and it was so close after my separation, that the person who was in there and I had two young children at the time when I was dating somebody new that they were like, Who is this person? and wine is too early. And this and that was, it was actually nightmarish. Wow. Yeah.

 

Damona  33:51  

But how is it different now? You’re remarried, you have the happy blended family picture?

 

Carmelia Ray  33:56  

Yeah. And it’s not always different. You know, it’s I mean, I authentically I’m Filipino. He’s not, you know, he’s got another child how it’s different now as I think, because I’m mature and I’m older, they realize that they can’t tell me what to do. You know, I think it’s very different when it’s also who I am. Right and what I stand for. So they they just gave up on me. That’s what it was. Do whatever that she’s gonna do I just, just they just couldn’t. It was what is that? There was a show before that. They would say something is futile. It’s Do you know that you’re the V? No. Oh, gosh. educate you. I wish I could. What was it? Resistance is futile. Okay. That was sentence. Oh, yeah. That was it. But you know, at the same time, it’s, it was it’s a matter of just being clear of what makes you happy. How you see the future and, and, and really being gentle about it. I think anytime you’re aggressive or you force an issue or force an outcome You’re not considered of the impact for other people. It’s when it’s it doesn’t work, you know, you’re looked at as selfish or self serving, and you have to first of all, consider the children.

 

Damona  35:11  

Yes, of course, this is such great advice for the holiday time. And just in general, if you’re looking to date someone that comes from a different circle, and we all we all have our different cultures, even if you’re both coming from a Christian background, you might have different traditions that you’re having to blend together.

 

Carmelia Ray  35:27  

And, you know, a real concern for singles today, especially if they’re single in their 40s, or even in their late 30s, as you said, and, and their choice in the dating pool are single parents. They often do. Sometimes they’re afraid of even dating somebody who has a child. And that’s a deal breaker for some people and me, I know that it can be very successful. I mean, I don’t like what this stat says, but I’ve seen it work where it can be successful, but it requires compromise. It certainly requires that you don’t come into the relationship with already a preconceived notion that it’s going to fail. If you go into that, well guess what’s going to happen it’s already going to fail. But they come to me saying no, I don’t want the drama. I don’t want you know that the ex baby mama or baby daddy or whatever the case is. And it’s not always like that in fact is so far from that in some cases there are people that are separated and I look at them as like oh my god poster child for the separated family that really just worked together for the kids.

 

Damona  36:30  

Yeah, it’s all about communication to like I did this holiday dating segment or dating relationship segment on access daily. And I every every answer I had, essentially the crux was communication in the Mario Lopez is like, so again, it’s about communication. I’m like, basically like that is the answer to every questions. One of my four pillars of long term compatibility. You have to have good communication and good conflict resolution because the problems will arise and it’s all in how you deal with it when it comes up.

 

Carmelia Ray  36:59  

Can you Be our Dating Coach Damona

 

Damona  37:02  

Yeah, of course, what will train will do okay and even trade because everybody like you said everybody needs an outside I, their dating life, their relationship life and somebody to talk to. So I’ve enjoyed talking to you and it’s not over Oh, not over currently because we have questions from our listeners. And you are just the person to answer them in our next segment.

 

Well Carmela the questions have been pouring in during the holiday season. I know everybody is stressed about their dating relationship situation right now. We have picked two of the most pressing questions to answer today there will be a deer Dimona episode coming up in the coming weeks. So if you haven’t gotten your question answered, please submit it to me on any of the social medias at Damona Hoffman or you can go to Dates & Mates calm and submit your question there. Our first question for the day. It’s a little bit long, but I think you’ll get the gist of it. Okay. This person says I’m on all of the data. apps. And I’ve been looking, trying not to be too picky. But I can’t tell if I’m on the apps because I’m single scared of being single, or I feel like I should be. Or if I’m doing poorly because I’m scared, or if I’m doing poorly, because I’m not interested. I’ve always seen myself in the future with kids. But there was never a man attached to that future. And I would like to have sex. But I’m not into just hooking up on apps because I feel intimidated from being out of the game for so long. I swear I feel like I’ve heard this question in different formats from so many people, but like breaking it down. Is there

 

Carmelia Ray  38:35  

a bunch of statements? I need a drink.

 

Damona  38:40  

Question is, should she be on dating apps is passed away. She’s been out of the game for a while.

 

Carmelia Ray  38:45  

I think she needs clarity. It’s very, very clear. And thank you for just being completely transparent and vulnerable. Because I’m hearing this going you need some clarity because you don’t know what’s going on. Understand you’re in a state of confusion. And if you have no compass, or goal or direction, you have you see a kid but you don’t see a man, you don’t know why you’re on a dating app, you don’t even have a goal. Well, first of all you’re getting, you’re not getting the result because you don’t even know what you want. You cannot get results unless you realize why you’re on the app in the first place. So if you’re on a platform, and you have no idea why you’re on that platform, that’s challenge number one. Secondly, it I’m not judging her for not for thinking maybe she wants to be an independent woman to raise a child and she’s looking for a donate, don’t donate, donate a donor a donor that Yeah, she might be looking for the perfect specimen donor and co like wonderful co parent, you know, relationship. Because I mean, she could be I don’t know because she doesn’t know either. So I think the first thing you have to do is book a session with Damona like number one, if not heard me please for free Hi, because you need to get out of this. I don’t know where I’m going left, right, upside down. It was you’re exhausted. I’m exhausted with the statements. Well, I think you need help, like, in a good way in a really, really good way. Right? So thank you for that. But

 

Damona  40:14  

you have dating apps amplify whatever challenges you’re already having. People think oh, the dating app, I just go on the dating app and that’ll fix it like I haven’t. I

 

Carmelia Ray  40:23  

I if you go into dating app with that, it’s just going to further solidify your already view of dating disappointment because that’s what’s manifesting right now. You’re not clear. If you don’t have clarity on what kind of relationship you want, you’re just going to get more of the same so I think the work has to be done with first figuring out what what she brings to the table like what really does she envision for herself in a partner you know, and and then move towards that goal. Don’t get you know, Europe, you’re playing a game with no rules. Yeah and and no way to measure success like what is success to you is success to you going on dates is success to you having sex? Because if a success is having sex, then a great you’re having sex not just going on naps for hookups so

 

Damona  41:15  

yes yeah and all of my programs all begin with mindset that’s always the thing because if you don’t know the direction you’re headed then how will you know if you even get there?

 

Carmelia Ray  41:28  

Yeah and have someone review her her profile because

 

Carmelia Ray  41:32  

I don’t know

 

Carmelia Ray  41:33  

yeah what are her photos saying is it is it as confusing as like what’s going on in her head like is she posting usually right? Is she posting photos to attract what kind of men what kind of relationship? What are the words you’re using to define yourself? Are you are there even words on there? Are you just like kind of going around thinking okay, well I’ll float in whatever direction and patches takes facepalm emoji That’s better.

 

Damona  41:59  

Okay, as we’re just Talking about getting clarity on who you’re looking for. Our second question comes to us from a fella who says, What’s the youngest appropriate age? I can date? I’m a 34 year old man.

 

Carmelia Ray  42:11  

Oh, I have a rule for that. Sony. Somebody told me this rule. You take your age. Try this half your age. half your age plus seven. Okay, you

 

Damona  42:21  

got the calculator.

 

Carmelia Ray  42:23  

So 24 is the youngest.

 

Damona  42:26  

for 10 years. Yeah. There’s a big difference between 24 and 34.

 

Carmelia Ray  42:32  

Well, because well, yes, but he’s got to realize like he’s asking what’s appropriate. what’s appropriate is someone who has emotional maturity, compatibility, physicality, and sees you at your level. There’s no age attached to that if you’re concerned about age, let’s figure out why. That’s the concern. Why aren’t you asking? What’s the kind of woman I should be dating? What are the what are the partner qualities that lead to the most successful outcome for me, not how old or young I should be. dating. That’s the wrong question.

 

Damona  43:02  

Girl just I’m just gonna drop the mic right there. Because that

 

Carmelia Ray  43:06  

you might as well say 17 then like, come on, like, like, I don’t know. I mean, you know, sorry to go.

 

Damona  43:12  

I mean, I didn’t know when I was in my early 20s. I was dating guys in their 30s. But then you’re also on a different track. I think it’s different when you’re in your third

 

Carmelia Ray  43:21  

I was to at 23 years old by someone in his 40s and he was Uber successful, currently a multi millionaire. I wish I had seen the future.

 

Carmelia Ray  43:33  

Because I’m like,

 

Carmelia Ray  43:36  

I’m kidding. No, I mean, I mean, I was not ready for a serious relationship. so dizzy given name z anonymous, he’s anonymous. Okay, so Mr. Anonymous askers. Don’t ask about age. The rules say it’s 24. But beyond that, it’s all of the other things that are more important than the age of the lady that you’re dating

 

Damona  43:59  

Carmelia you are wealth of information. Thank you so much for joining us. She is on all of the socials at Carmelia Ray. And also I forget yes yo is doing something. Yeah, well remember it’s the, it’s the magnetic making a matchmaking app. So chief Matchmaker,

 

Carmelia Ray  44:15  

yes, I am the chief matchmaker at Censio. It’s actually launched here in LA, you can download the app at Censio and be in the spirit of giving for the month of December up until I think it’s January 1, you can use the promo code single bells, exactly how it sounds all one word. So to get one month free of unlimited matches and introductions on our app, so we welcome you to use that and can’t wait to interact with you on the love couch where you can ask questions. And yes, I’m so glad to be here. Thank you so much, Mona.

 

Damona  44:52  

Thank you. We will put that promo code single bells in the show notes along with your social media links. Thank you for being here. Thank you. And thank you for being here to listen to Episode 288 of dates and dates again, I’m at Damona Hoffman on all of the socials. I want to hear from you. I want to know what your questions are for our upcoming dear Damona episode, so make sure you send those to me and make sure you share this episode with a friend. Next week the holidays will be in full swing, but we will still be here with our weekly episode. We’re not letting you down. My holidays are on and I know the pressure is on for you so you can count on Dates & Mates. Until then I wish you happy dating

Love Story & Dangerous Dating Apps

LEARNING FROM LOVE STORIES

We’re all trying to navigate our own love story, but the question on everyone’s lips right now seems to be: Are dating apps dangerous?

This week, Rene Lynch, LA Times writer and editor for the LA Affairs column, talk about the best love stories that teach us the best lessons. Also we break down all of the recent bad press surrounding dangerous dating apps.

More on that later, first we have headlines!

DATING DISH (2:30)

Why aren’t people having sex?

According to Financial Times, there is a huge decline in the amount of sex young people are having- especially men. Damona and Rene break down what this means for you.

Are free dating apps dangerous?

A recent investigation showed that predators are free to use free dating apps. Should all dating apps use a dating app registry

Is cheating the norm?

Recently Anna Ferris and Kat Von D talk about their history with cheating exes. Is this the new normal?

LOVE STORY (14:60)

Rene Lynch, lifestyle writer and editor at the LA Times, proves that we learn a lot from other people’s love stories. We talk about:

  • Compelling love stories
  • Big Takeaways from love stories
  • Our stories make up who we are, whether good for bad
  • Write your won happy ending

Make sure to find Rene Lynch at the LA Times or on Twitter (@ReneLynch).

TECHNICALLY DATING

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • Email Question: Hi Damona. I recently started internet dating & I have met some nice guys but no one that really blows me away. I have been asked by one of the men to stop seeing the other men to see if this relationship can work. I am in my 40’s & the endless dating cycle is tiring, but I do not want to settle for the man that is giving me the most attention and who is the most demanding. Any advice?
  • Lately I’ve been really struggling in my relationship. He’s a great guy and we share a lot of the same values. The thing is I was never really attracted to him and never felt the spark, I thought I could get passed it bc we do share similar values for the future and in life but I’ve been nit picking and criticizing him for a few months now. I’ve tried changing but biting my tongue feels impossible. Do you think I should stay and work it out even tho I’m not exited bc he is so nice and loves me so much? Hanging out with him feels more like an obligation than something I enjoy and it’s so hard bc he’s everything I want on paper and loves me so much.
  • How can I understand if a guy has serious intentions without asking directly?

 

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

 

Damona  0:17  

Hello lovers, welcome to Dates & Mates. I’m your host certified Dating Coach damona Hoffman. And I want to thank you for making this show your source for modern dating and relationship advice. Whether you’ve been listening to Dates & Mates for all seven years, or if you’re new to the show, you know, you can learn a lot about dating from hearing other people’s stories. And today we’re going to take a deeper look at how love stories and our quest for a happy ending can change a romantic future. In studio with me today is Renee Lynch. She is a writer and editor for the LA Times Saturday section and features. She works across a variety of coverage areas including wellness, design and food and lucky for us She’s also the editor of the weekly la affairs column, please Give big smooches to Renee Lynch.

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  1:02  

Thank you very much. I’m happy to be here.

 

Damona  1:04  

I’m so happy that you’re here. I’m a big fan of the column. And you know, I love a good love story. I love a bad love story. I love all love stories, because I think you can really learn something from hearing other people’s stories. So I’m excited to get into the details of what you’ve learned from your years of editing the LA affairs column. All right. But we also have headlines and we’ll be talking about why young people really aren’t having sex anymore. And what you can learn about cheaters from Kat Von D and Ana Faris, plus, our free dating apps dangerous, huh. We’ll cover those headlines and we’ll be answering your questions, including What if he’s ready to be exclusive? And you’re not? And should you break up with a guy who has everything on paper, but just doesn’t excite you? All that and more on today’s date and mates? Renee Are you ready to do this then? I am ready. I’m so excited. Let’s dish Financial Times published a new study on how dating apps are changing relationships. And there was a lot of interesting data in this study that some of which we’ve covered before, like the marrying age is going up and people are waiting longer to actually tie the knot or deciding not to tie the knot at all. But all but what I thought was really interesting was the research on sex. It I know I have. Yes, men apparently are reporting they’re having the least amount of sex. This is a major decrease in recent years. 28% of men have not had sex in the past year versus 18% of women. And the article posits that one of the reasons is that women are the younger men are really struggling in the dating market. They’re not having sex. much because women are looking for older men. So like there’s this gap in the market where they have a high sex drive, but they’re not getting any. What did you think of this article? Renee?

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  3:10  

Well, I find it very surprising because the media image is that we are kind of bombarded with daily seem to suggest that everyone is having sex all the time, which makes a lot of people wonder whether there’s something wrong with them, right. I mean, we’re, you can’t drive down the freeway without seeing some kind of sexually charged image. But when you dig deeper to it, I think it, it’s not all that surprising. And it does reflect that I think it is harder for men to kind of like, meet and connect with women. I think there are variety of reasons behind that. I also think there’s an interesting parallel to this Instagram world that we see that we think everything is so perfect out there, and everybody is having so much fun, and we’ve got this fear of missing out. And yet, there’s also this incredible loneliness that’s going on in the world. And I think some of those statistics really reflect that, that there’s an emotional disconnect in a variety of ways. It’s weird as the world gets a little smaller through technology, we can reach and connect with people more than ever before. There’s still a sense of, we’re not connecting.

 

Damona  4:16  

Yeah, I definitely see that with dating apps. And you all know, I’m a huge fan of dating apps. I think it has opened up a lot of possibilities for connection. But there’s a lot there are a lot of people that are on dating apps that aren’t actually connecting. They’re either doing it just just to waste time, or there are the people that are on the dating apps, specifically out for sex. And I feel like there’s been a pushback to people, especially women rejecting the idea that they’re on a Tinder or a hinge because they are looking to hook up. They’re like people and we actually you’ll see this in the questions from this week to people are really craving a deeper level of connection and We’re not getting it on the dating apps. But I think that has to do with the way that we’re using the apps and the mindset that you, you show up with when you’re there.

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  5:08  

I think that’s totally accurate. I think the dating apps kind of give us this idea of like, dial up a date, and you can just, you know, get on and in five minutes have a date. And in some cases, true, that’s probably true. But if that’s all you’re looking for, your you may find it. But if you’re looking for anything more, it’s far more complicated than that. That’s just a simplistic view, you’re not going to dial up a husband or a wife or partner, it’s just not going to happen. And so you’re you’re you we kind of have that we live in a society where we kind of get whatever we want whenever we want it. And yet, of course, there’s this huge hurdle between dialing up you know, whoever on a dating app and actually meeting and connecting so I used to call it man shopping, right?

 

Damona  5:52  

But I did it with a clear intention. But I know a lot of people out there are getting more than they bargained for when they’re using dating apps there was a an article that hit people calm and a number of other outlets, criticizing match the parent company of many dating apps, including Tinder, and OkCupid. And plenty of fish for not doing thorough background checks on their free sites. Actually, they don’t do any background checks at all. Match itself does scrub their roles, and it kicks off anyone that does have a match to the sex offender registry. But they don’t do it for OK Cupid and plenty of fish. And there was a new investigation that revealed that sexual offenders are looking for potential victims on these free apps. Here’s my take, Renee, I think that the dating apps are not we’re making them too responsible for our choices. Like if you went to a bar and you met a sex offender, you wouldn’t go and sue the bar because you met them there and You might, you might, you probably wouldn’t win. But I, I feel like it’s unfair to put this kind of pressure and burden on dating apps, especially the free dating apps, like you didn’t pay anything to be there. And now you’re expecting all of these, all of these resources to be provided for you, but you don’t want to actually pay for them to be to be given to you. Now, I’m a little bit biased. I do work with match on content, and I’ve worked with them for many years. But I’m saying this more as a dating coach, and someone that has done this for over I’m almost embarrassed to say, for nearly 15 years, I’ve been coaching people on dating apps, and I’ve always said you have to do your own research.

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  7:41  

What do you I think that you make a great point. And I think in a lot of ways, you’re you’re totally right. But there’s also a reality that situation. Most people have no idea you’re sophisticated you are working in this area, you understand what it means to try to track somebody down and get some background information on them. A lot of people Just don’t have that I think about, you know, I’m a journalist. So my first reaction is if I’m going to date you, I’m probably going to look you up in our database. And but a lot of people don’t have access to that. And they might do an easy Facebook search, but they’re not going to go beyond that. I think a lot of these dating apps are in a tough situation, because they did not go into this business to be investigators. But I think on the other hand, there’s an argument to be made that just as we’re demanding more accountability from Facebook and from Twitter, we, these, these businesses realize that they are potentially putting people in the path of the sex offender, and they’re certainly not advertising that, but at some point, we do expect them to take some responsibility for it. So I think if I’m coming at this from a we are all responsible for our own actions, position. I agree with you. But I mean, at some point Do they really not have any accountability or responsibility in some ways by knowing that you You have this problem and you’re not doing anything about it. They’re there. They’re acknowledging their role and trying to step away from it. Yeah, I need to do more.

 

Damona  9:07  

They certainly could do more. And I think they have in recent years done a lot to shore up. Just general dating data. Potential faults in their in their data sharing like it used to be when you would go search for ok key, but you could you could search the profiles were actually indexed by Google. And you could find them you could find anybody and search by their photo and it would come up as associated with Ok, Cupid. So they have since they’ve since shored that up, and it gave a lot of my clients more, more of a sense of security, that their information wasn’t all out there. But I think we also have we have to accept responsibility. Like you said, you brought up Facebook and Instagram. We have to accept responsibility that when we put our image out there and when we put our information out there that it could be used in many different ways. But you’re absolutely right that a lot of people don’t have these resources. And that’s why I’m glad that people are listening to this podcast right now. Because I’ve said for a long time you have to do you have to do your research, like do a google check, do a phone call before the day and see if anything doesn’t match up with what what they’ve said. And if if they’re, if they’re a registered sex offender, or if they have a criminal record, you might be able to find some of that information just from a basic Google search. So that at the very least you should be doing if you have any concerns about this, or go to match and pay for it. Like maybe what they should be doing is adding an like an app an add on service that you can pay to have background checks. I know, Bumble lets you verify your account. But maybe there’s an added level of security they can give to people that aren’t willing to pay for the service because not free.

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  10:56  

Right. Right. That’s a very good point. I mean, we shouldn’t expect that this is all going to be handed to us for free. I think this also speaks a bit to a generational divide. Millennials, they know their way around all this stuff. They’re much more savvy. But I think if somebody like my mom who is widowed, if she were to go on a dating app, she would fall for every anything because she doesn’t use a computer she doesn’t know. You know, it would be it would be a hard asset to just get her on a dating app. But some people are just not that sophisticated there. And I shouldn’t say sophisticated because sometimes people are just not interested in living their life connected to the internet and a computer. And should those people be more susceptible to, you know, a bad actor? I would say no, but I do think that we have, we can’t expect that this is all going to be handed to us for free. I do think that a pay option. That’s something that seems fairly reasonable.

 

Damona  11:49  

Well, we’ve given them all the all the information they need. Hopefully they’ll pick it up and run with anyone credit for it. But one thing that’s a little bit harder to tell when you’re on a dating app is whether someone is in a relationship or not. I’ve read in some of the LA affairs stories people find out later on that the person they thought they were madly in love with was already madly in love with someone else and in a relationship with them. And Kat Von D and Ana Faris, normal normalize to the the phenomenon of cheating on the unqualified podcast and you look at these two ladies and you think who’s gonna cheat on Kat Von D. First of all, she’s gorgeous. Second of all, I feel like she like she she would cut you your life. But she says she’s dated nothing but jerks and has never been on a real date. She claims a past boyfriend cheated on her Renee 18 times while they were together she she looked in she saw in his email and messages that there were 18 different women that he had she verified He had had sex with while they were together. What is going on? You’ve been editing this column for a long time. Is there an increase that you see in submissions? of Cheaters or do you think it’s just like now we’re talking about it more before it was just so taboo that people wouldn’t discuss if it happened to them?

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  13:21  

I don’t I can’t say that I see an increase in it I can tell you that a lot of the submissions we get have to do with cheating. But before I get to some examples, on a Ferris we had I had the pleasure of meeting her once in studio she came into the LA Times. so incredibly nice, incredibly, you can always tell them Sure, you can bet your shares celebrities, you can always tell how they treat everyone else. She was so pleasant and when I heard that story, I thought who would cheat on Anna you be getting me It’s horrible. What What luck to the rest of us have? But we we you know, it’s not.

 

Damona  13:55  

It’s not about that it’s not about even reading this week, Justin Timberlake I was holding hands I was like Justin and like you like you’re not going to do better than Jessica he’ll it’s not going to happen john What is going on?

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  14:11  

But it’s it’s really shocking how often that happens and I am sure there’s you could do a whole show on the psychology of cheating but people I think go into relationships expecting that the person is if they are in a monogamous relationship they’re expecting that the person is going to be honest with them. And my god the LA affair submissions just show time and time again that that is not the case. And and it sometimes just seems so, so surprising that the person didn’t catch on one of our more popular columns had to do with a woman who was I can’t exactly remember all the details of this, but she found out that her boyfriend had her phone number in his phone, but under a guy’s name and she did not Real that’s how she found out red flag right? Somehow his phone rang or she would she called the phone Oh, they were looking for his phone or something. And the phone rang and she’s like, why do you have me in here as Tony? Take it all fell apart. It was funny about that, as so many people did not understand who were read the column that that is a common practice that people do. They’ll hide the person’s name and their phone under another name so that if the phone rings and their partner says, Oh, it’s Tony from work or Joe from work, it’s not another woman calling.

 

Damona  15:29  

So in that situation, she was the other woman.

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  15:32  

Yes. She found that’s how she found out that she was the other woman. I know.

 

Damona  15:36  

That is just the worst. What are some other other other red flags that you’ve seen? Or, or patterns that you’ve seen that cheaters will do? Because I know people are listening like, I gotta take some notes here from Renee because I need to know because I think a lot of people have suspicions like, what if my partner is cheating on me or has cheated on me? But are there any things that You should really be on the lookout for like, like, is only being able to see you on the weekends like, Is that an automatic red flag? Are there any other things you’ve seen? Well,

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  16:10  

I think it particularly in LA some of those rules that might apply elsewhere are difficult in LA because when I was dating my husband, I, we lived about 40 miles apart. We only saw each other on weekends. So he could have had an entire other family and told her that he was going on business trips for the weekend, and I wouldn’t have known it. So those rules do not always apply. I would say, to step back a little bit further before you try to figure out if somebody is cheating. Have you had the conversation? Are we in this together? And it’s just us too? Are we monogamous? Are we? You know, is it just as to we published a story not too long ago by a woman and I have to tell you, I had a hard time editing the column a little bit because I was struggling to understand her point of view, she met a guy, they hit it off, they go on their first date, and then after their First Date she does her due diligence and starts googling him and finds out I believe through Facebook, that he’s in these photos with another woman and kids and she’s trying to figure out what this is. And she calls him in a fury. And he says, we’ll wait a second. I’m Yes, I’m married. However, I am in the process of getting divorced. I have a great relationship with my wife. She knows I’m dating, and we’re separated and we’re in the process of getting a divorce. I don’t know is that is that a problem? This woman went through the roof over that, but I don’t know.

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  17:32  

I don’t know about disclosing all that on your first date. I feel like I kind of felt for him.

 

Damona  17:38  

I feel like he should say before the date, just so you know I am. I mean, you have to say that you’re separated, not divorced. And that’s a really common. That’s a really common cheater move. Right right to say, oh, we’re in the process. I mean, how many times we heard that I’m leaving my way. But tomorrow,

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  17:59  

but It’s true. It’s true. I mean, I guess I

 

Damona  18:03  

was like, so, so jaded.

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  18:05  

Should you have to reveal everything on the first day? I don’t know. I personally would have appreciated that being revealed on the first day. But I think sometimes people find out that their quote unquote being cheated on, and maybe they haven’t had the conversation about are we monogamous?

 

Damona  18:20  

No one else such a good point. I also read a recent la affairs column where a woman was talking about her dating patterns. And she said that in all of the, the, the relationships or the date she she had the intuition, she had the gut early on, that they were not a good guy or they weren’t, weren’t right for her. And so many times, we just squash that and we put our intuition aside. And those of you who’ve been listening to the podcast for a while, know that I’m really big into using that intuition and trusting your gut. Because we could we can do all the steps but ultimately, we can do background checks, but I think the best background check is it starts with how do you feel when you’re with them? And what are the signals that you’re getting? Yeah,

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  19:07  

you’re totally right. I i in particular loved that column because I worked with her on that for quite a bit. It had a very different tone to it. In the very beginning, she was very down on herself that this was never going to work out. And, you know, this is all horrible. And then as we work through it, ice center will it actually seems like you’re, we need to play up that idea that you have listened to your intuition and it ended up being a much more I think inspirational column because, you know, think about how many dates you’ve gone on in your life. You’ve had far more dates that did not end up in you being married then the date that got you married, right, so are you a dating failure? If you look at the statistics, you are right, you are more bad dates that didn’t go anywhere today. True. And so I think we have to not take the bad date as like a sign of that. Some thing is horrible. It just didn’t work out. It didn’t work out if you went shopping, and you didn’t find the black pair pants that you were looking for you and be like, I’m a failure to shop another day, right? Like you would just be like, I’m ready to get back in the hunt and look for those pants. I think we need to approach dating a little more like that. It’s not the end all be all, you know, referendum on who you are as a person. You’re just trying to find your match, trying to find your person. And that takes time. And it’s not a big deal. It’s like calm down. It’s all going to be okay. didn’t work out the Saturday, maybe next Saturday is your day. So uplifting

 

Damona  20:34  

and I totally agree with you. Speaking of time, it’s time for us to take a little break. And first I wanted to just acknowledge our listeners that have told their friends about the podcast and that have told other podcast listeners about the podcast through reviews. Special thanks to Nicole who just left us this review. She said I enjoy listening to this podcast on my way to work every Monday. Not to sound arrogant or anything But she’s the host is funny and engaging. And she always has a wide variety of love and dating themes to themes to address you won’t be disappointed. Thank you so much, Nicole for listening. And thanks to all of you who are dedicated to listening to this podcast. Please take a moment to review the show on the podcast platform that is bringing it to your ears right now. So the more people can get the help and love that they need and we can keep making Dates & Mates a free resource for you for seven more seasons. We will have more with Renee Lynch of the la times in just a moment.

 

We are back with Renee Lynch of the LA Times. She is the editor of the LA affairs column which I’ve been a fan of for a long time. Renee, people love a love story. They love a good love story. And we’re sometimes really addicted to happy endings. I’m curious because you read a lot of love stories What’s your favorite kind of love story?

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  22:12  

I you know, I love a good love story where there’s a lot of drama and obstacles before you get to the to the wonderful payoff. I just think that I love the story where it slowly revealed itself kind of like When Harry Met Sally story the way we knew it slowly revealed itself that Wait a second, the person I’ve wanted all along, or the perfect person for me is right here.

 

Damona  22:39  

So much more like people are like, how did you know your husband was the one and I’m like, I don’t know cuz I just wanted to keep seeing him and not seeing anybody else. It wasn’t like, all of a sudden whiz bang like the music change and I swept off my

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  22:55  

feet and we danced off into the sunset.

 

Damona  22:58  

I don’t know. Did you hear you’re married. Did you know when you first met your husband? He was the one No,

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  23:05  

my husband, I’m a very silly person. And my husband for is also very silly person, which that’s why I love him. I always say he’s the goof to my ball. Our first few dates, he was so serious, and just so kind of like this kind of commanding and control very serious personality. And I was like, No, like, No, no, no, no, no. And we actually went on a date we went golfing and I told a friend I go he doesn’t know this but he’s got one shot like this date. This is about to be over

 

Damona  23:38  

way this was your this is your first

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  23:41  

No, this is like your this is the person I’m married to now

 

Damona  23:43  

but how many dates and more dates Okay, so this is like the date it and

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  23:47  

I was like, This guy is just too serious. And it because I felt like I couldn’t be my ridiculous silly self because I felt like he was like disapproving and like why are you being loud or silly or whatever. And so we go coughing and we are in the parking lot at the end of the night and we’re about it we were two different cars are about to go our second way and somebody starts playing Britney Spears hit me Baby One More Time started doing the dancer, Brittany’s my god parking lot and I was like, will you marry me?

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  24:20  

That is a bold move or a guy

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  24:22  

I couldn’t like I wish I had a camera on my face because the shock of like, is this guy really doing this right now? And he had the whole like he was doing the whole thing. And I thought okay, well you just one date number five.

 

Damona  24:35  

But it’s I like hearing that story because it shows how people really reveal themselves over time and I talk on the show a lot about slow love and how people are not usually themselves right away and true. Like people get so caught up in chemistry and what am I feeling on the first date, but it’s really the second, the third, the fourth and the fifth date. Yeah, that really tells you who that person is? I’m curious what made you stick with it beyond the first or second day because there are a lot of people that after a soso or a bad first date might just be like,

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  25:13  

you know, there was enough there. He’s very handsome. There was no is there? Yes, that always helps. And we we kept finding weird things in common. Like we were reading the same book at the time. And you know, just like an odd little thing. And it wasn’t a new book. It was an old it was Lance Armstrong’s book. It’s not about the bike. Before Lance. Yeah, youngsters, Grace. And he knew, you know, so he was able to talk about that. And then we would just find these like weird little things in common. And I just found this he is he’s Puerto Rican, he’s very close to his family. And that’s something that I really admired. And there were just little things that I thought this is a really a stand up guy. I was just really worried that I that I wasn’t I was like, maybe not measuring up, it was really this kind of like weird thing where I thought, I’m kind of like, you know, I’ll say silly stuff, I’ll just I’m kind of a very relaxed person. And he just seemed like a little too uptight. And I thought, Oh, this is not gonna work out

 

Damona  26:13  

the best behavior with you. Right?

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  26:14  

Well, that said he was really nervous. And so it took us a while to I think, I think a slow burn is such a great way to describe it, that it took a while for it to unfold and reveal itself. And that was the relationship that really made me understand that I would say if you have two things that you need in a relationship, it’s compatibility. And also attraction. I mean, you need to have some attraction to the person that you’re with. But if you are not compatible, I think that the media image that we often get is that you need to have a fiery tempestuous Lake relationship. And I’m like, Girl run on and run late. I do not want that. Like, maybe that’s great for a hot summer romance, but that is not what you want when the roof is leaking. Getting in the kid is crying and the bills need to be paid. You want slow, steady compatible somebody who who your spending habits are similar. Somebody that you know that you can rely on, you don’t mean that that you know exactly.

 

Damona  27:16  

What’s interesting about the LA affaires column and the work that you do with it, you get submissions, you get like hundreds of submissions every month. And I’m guessing

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  27:28  

No, it’s true. I tell people, I could run the column if I stopped accepting submissions today, I could run it like through 2015. I mean, I have it literally in my quote unquote short stack. I have probably 150 columns in the short stack.

 

Damona  27:41  

Wow. So this is anyone in LA that has a love story that wants to tell something about about their journey. And I’m curious when you have all of these stories, I’m sure everyone feels like their story is the most important one to be told. But what is it that makes you pick one out over the other and then talking about A little bit about your process of how you take this core idea. Like we all tell the story from our point of view, like this happened, and he did this to me, but like, like the example you were telling about before the break, how you shape it to almost give them new perspective on the story that they’ve lived.

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  28:16  

I feel like doing this job is kind of being a little bit of a therapist for people, always, because I’ll see something in their story. And they don’t see it because they’ve lived it, right. It’s, it’s staring them in the face, and I’ll start to ask them about it. And then it’ll slowly fall away that this the story isn’t over here. It’s actually on the other side of the room. It’s over here. And part of that is the editing process. When columns come in, first and foremost, I’m looking for a really great story. I tell people do not worry about filing a perfectly polished, edited manuscript. That’s not what I want or need, because I’m the editor. I can guarantee you that whatever you file, no matter what shape it’s in, I’m going to find some changes because the style changes for the paper. Like for example, we don’t use profanity. So just like maybe that makes us old school but you know, changes will be major columns. So first and foremost, I’m just looking for a good story. Tell me a good story. Pretend you are you and I just met, we’re sitting next to each other having coffee and they say so you know, tell me about your last date or your partner, whatever. Start typing. That’s what I want. Just tell me a good story. And then from there, I’m looking for something original. I’m, you know, if you if you read the column, I’m just looking for something perhaps offbeat. I love a story that ends up happening an inspirational aspect to it like that woman who I think is like so many of us, we think, Oh, I went on another bad date. There’s something wrong with me. And we were able to finally get to the point where she already understood but she wasn’t fully embracing it. That when you walk away from a bad day, you’re walking towards yourself. You’re that is a victory. You put that in the win column sister You do not walk away from that feeling bad. about that. And so I loved that I’m working on a column with a man right now, it’s probably going to take a while it’ll run early next year, and he and his partner broke up because of his drinking. And when they get back together, you know, it’s it’s very difficult challenge for them to recover their relationship. But he, he really comes to the idea that so many people do who struggle with substance abuse that he had to say no to that in order to say yes to the relationship. And it’s just a really beautiful inspirational story. And I’m fully convinced that somebody will read that column. And he was very upset with his partner because he felt like his partner was rejecting Him and not accepting him. But the partner was saying, I cannot have this alcoholism in my life. And so I’ve seen enough of right

 

Damona  30:47  

intervention to know that line.

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  30:50  

And so I’m sure that people will read that column and somebody somewhere will read that column and say, You know what, I’m going to stop drinking today. And so that to me, I want to Love that I get to do something like that it’s an honor and a privilege.

 

Damona  31:04  

You just gave me chills honestly to know that you’re impacting people that are reading this on on such a deep level and even just the people that you’re writing that you’re editing the column with, to know that they can get new perspective because our stories really sometimes trap us in a pattern. Like all the time when I’m working with clients, I, I help figure out what is that story that’s playing in your head about why you’re still single, maybe it’s you’re telling yourself every day there are no good men in LA or I can’t trust my gut or they’re all cheaters whatever that story is. Sometimes you have to take a step back from it and maybe even in writing it out. Like not everyone listening to this podcast is going to have their their story published in LA affairs, but maybe they can get started by just writing down their story on paper, getting the story out of them. And then almost distancing it Yes, it’s yourself from it to just read it and say Okay, where How have I grown from this? What can I learn from this? How can I become a better person myself through this experience, and then maybe that will lead me to?

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  32:12  

Well, I think you have just hit right on it that I sometimes think that we think like life is just supposed to be perfect and unfold. But we all know we come with so much baggage, and then you’re meeting somebody else who has baggage. And we’re both trying to see if our baggage will fit within it, each other’s baggage. And if you’re coming from the perspective of like, I can’t find, you know, there are no good women in LA or I can’t find a date or there’s something wrong with me. In some ways, I would encourage people to do exactly what you said, which is, instead of using this as a negative use it as an opportunity for personal growth. We are in the land of of personal growth, right? There’s no place in the world that encouraged us to look within like LA, we should take advantage of that. And maybe it’s seeing somebody maybe it’s talking to somebody maybe it’s trying to journal or Right about it there are plenty of free online resources. But why not delve into? Why am I finding it hard to meet a woman in LA? Do I really believe that all women are bad look, let’s push back on that belief and see what happens when I start digging into it is what happened in my background that has led me to believe that and then what am I going to move past that? I mean, be the hero of your own story right? Every good hero needs an obstacle. You gotta like go around it or through it or under it or whatever just in

 

Damona  33:28  

the third act

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  33:31  

it’s not the end but but I think we can often give up right we can often give up just before the breakthrough so I think we the way you put it is just perfect. We just need to push through that and sometimes for some people writing it down and submitting it to a column like Ella fares or or someplace else or maybe even writing it down and burning it in the backyard and being like I’m now done with that. I’m ready to move on.

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  33:51  

Oh, yeah,

 

Damona  33:52  

right. I did that. Actually. I had a I had a group of girlfriends over in in the I guess it was in the summer, spring or summer, and we got a fire pit and we all we burned our stories. And this woman had this relationship that she was still holding on to a lot of negativity around it. And she was still processing it, even though she was in a healthy, positive relationship. Now she still had unfinished business. And so she took all of these photos, all of these letters, all of these things that were tying her to the past and she burned them. She burned them in my backyard. And it was just so cathartic.

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  34:36  

Okay, now you’re

 

Damona  34:38  

just to see, I mean, y’all like fire safety, like don’t like make sure you are doing this in a way which I didn’t do that but you know, like, have a professional or water or something, I don’t know. But just just seeing her go through that and, and be able to, to release that. Like we carry around all these feelings that we attend. To the stories that we’ve had,

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  35:01  

right, and you know what it’s okay to have a wonderful relationship that for whatever reason, didn’t work out, it’s totally fine. And it’s fine to reflect on that and maybe remember that person and think about him or her fondly. But that it’s think sometimes things just don’t work out. And that’s just the way it is. And it’s okay. It’s not a reflection on who you are. It’s just a reflection on that moment in time. And that can actually be a beautiful thing, right that you had a, you know, a summer boyfriend or summer girlfriend, and it was great, and then it didn’t work out. But that’s a wonderful memory to have not baggage to kind of like drag into like your next 17 relationships. Exactly.

 

Damona  35:39  

You are so wise, Renee. I’m like, I’m getting all of the chills and all the fields here. And all of our listeners have submitted questions to all of our listeners. Some of our listeners have submitted questions that I think our listeners would really want to hear your insights to the questions that they’ve submitted. So we’re going to roll right into our next segment. Alright, Renee, we have questions from our listeners that people have submitted all kinds of ways. We get questions through email, through Instagram, through Facebook, through Twitter. And today I have a question that came to my inbox. That said, Hi damona I recently started internet dating and I’ve met some nice guys, but none that really blow me away. I’ve been asked by one of them to stop seeing the other men to see if this relationship can work. I’m in my 40s and the endless dating cycle is tiring, but I do not want to settle for the man that is giving me the most attention and who’s the most demanding? Any advice? Ooh, that is a hard one. That is a hard one is a burden hand.

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  36:45  

Yeah, she has a burden. And I guess I I would wonder, first of all, I’d love to know a little more about her dating history. How she got to this point, what is your story? What is your story? But I mean, what about Giving it a certain amount of time so that you’re not putting too much into it but maybe four or five more dates or say, I mean, I can kind of understand somebody saying like, can we make this monogamous or at least make it about us? For now, I think I would be so anxious if I knew my boyfriend were leaving me and dating somebody. Like, I just think that would just ratchet up my anxiety.

 

Damona  37:24  

But in the beginning, you were you were online. Right? Right. And you knew in the beginning the chances chances were he was dating other people.

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  37:32  

But once we started dating a few more dates, and once he did his little bit,

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  37:39  

you know, we never actually had the conversation of are we is this are we exclusive, but we just kind of knew we were exclusive. But Had I known that he were out dating other women. I think that would have been, I think I would have at some point said can we make this just about us? I think that would have been a little hurtful, so I can understand somebody’s asking for that. I mean, if he says I need you to never date another man again for the next 10 years, I think you say you got to get out of here. But saying if let’s put our emphasis on this and see if we can work six, eight weeks. I don’t know that doesn’t seem that doesn’t seem unreasonable.

 

Damona  38:15  

You’re giving me food for thought running because my initial reaction was if she’s not excited about him, and he’s already at the point where he’s saying, Let’s be exclusive, that maybe they’ve given it enough time to see if it’s working or not. And for her, it’s just not working. And

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  38:32  

well, that’s why I wondered about her background because I wonder if she I wondered if she is a little bit like me who was like, Wait, you’re not bringing fireworks and like 3000 roses on our first date? She this isn’t very exciting. Yeah. I

 

Damona  38:48  

Well, there’s a clue in here. She says the endless dating cycle is tiring. And I know a lot of our listeners struggle with that. Especially she says she’s in her 40s we have a lot of listeners in their 30s and Does it feel like I’ve been doing this, I’ve been like, on this in this rat race of dating, and it’s like wash, rinse repeat of I’m going on this date, I’m not really connecting with a guy I’m this far in, I don’t really want to break up with him because I don’t want to start over. Right? Like that fear of starting over can keep people in the wrong relationships. But by the same token, I totally hear what you’re saying, like you have to be looking at the bigger picture of what, what you need out of the relationship. And maybe if it’s not, you’re not checking all the boxes. But if you’re checking enough of the boxes, you know, maybe it is worth just just focusing

 

Rene Lynch, LA Times  39:39  

and committing for a little bit and saying like, if you are invested in this relationship, what would that look like? I can guarantee you that if you and I are in a relationship, and we’re totally committed to each other, it’s going to look very different than if I’m dating five other people. And so I’m not giving you my all I’m not giving you all my attention. That person is going to feel that but again, I’m a little curious as to what it what are her expectations about a relationship? I guarantee you that I do not check all of my husband’s boxes, I’m sure. He would be like, I would like somebody who’s maybe a little more organized. There’s there are definitely things that he will be like, I wish I could change about her. But if you’re, you know, checking most of them. He’s the person who, if he is my desert island person, I want him on that desert island. Is he perfect? No, he’s not perfect. But at some point, you just get to that point where you think this person is very, very special to me, and I want them in my life more than I don’t want them in my life.

 

Damona  40:41  

Okay, that’s a good segue into our second question, which is similar but different. This one came to me from Instagram. She says I’m a 20 year old female. She said I just listened to a podcast you were on. I’m not sure which one but thank you for listening. Maybe horrible decisions or maybe kind of dating but thank you for Much. Lately I’ve been really struggling in my relationship. He’s a great guy and we share a lot of the same values. The thing is I was never really attracted to him and never felt the spark. Never felt the spark, Renee. I thought I could get past it because we do share similar values for the future and in life, but I have been nitpicking and criticizing him for a few months.

 

Sun Signs & Zodiac Compatibility

IS LOVE COMPATIBILITY WRITTEN IN THE STARS?

It’s Thanksgiving week, the last thing we’re thinking is dating, right? Wrong. It so happens that this week is also Damona’s birthday week and we thought we’d take some time to explore love according to the stars. 

People always ask Damona: Can astrology help you find the one? 

And the answer is… a lot more in-depth than we expected. So Damona brought in Astrologer Rachel Lang to explain Zodiac compatibility in honor of her birthday week!

More on that later, first we have headlines!

DATING DISH (2:30)

The Real Deal with Pick Up Artists

Screenshot Mag asks, Is the dating industry failing daters? Pick up artistry seems to be a very popular sector of the dating industry and it gets a lot of criticism. Damona explains. 

How do you explain “it’s complicated” to your parents?

Another year, another round of explaining your relationship status to your parents over Thanksgiving. How do you explain more complicated relationship terms to your parents? Damona and Rachel have thoughts. 

A little twist in Mr. Rogers’ love story

Mr. Rogers is one of the most wholesome men in history. It’s not surprising that the story of how he proposed to his wife, Joanne, is just as sweet as you would expect. Story time!

ZODIAC COMPATIBILITY (14:60)

Love in the stars

Rachel is an astrologer, psychic medium, and healer who  has been developing her spiritual gifts more than 20 years. She helps her clients maximize the potential of their natal charts as well as upcoming transits and progressions. You’ve seen her work in publications like Bustle, Well+Good, Brit + Co, Romper, PopSugar, and more.

So basically, she’s more than qualified to answer your questions on astrology.

We go in-depth on:

  • Astrology Basics
  • Sun signs, Moon signs, rising signs, etc
  • Transits, transitions, and progressions,
  • Natal charts
  • Compatibility
  • How to try this at home

Make sure to find Rachel Lang on Instagram (@rachellang11) or online at rachellangastrologer.com.

TECHNICALLY DATING (37:00)

Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • If a guy brings up “the bedroom” in a text before you’ve even met – is that a red flag? 
  • Is it possible today to meet someone without dating apps? What is your advice for people who want to date but don’t want to do it online?

 

WANT TO GO EVEN DEEPER? HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE SHOW IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG!

Damona  0:00  

Hello lovers, welcome to Dates & Mates. I’m your host certified Dating Coach Damona Hoffman and we are here to handle all of the challenges that you’re dealing with in love as I have on the show for the last seven years and hope to do for the next seven years. This week is a really special week. I know it’s Thanksgiving, and you’re thinking this is going to be a Thanksgiving-themed show. And that was initially what I was thinking about. But then I realized it’s also my birthday. And people ask me all the time about astrology and compatibility and I thought why not let my birthday be the reason to look into compatibility, in love according to the stars. People are always asking me how to know if the person they’re with is the one and whether astrology can tell them the answer. 

 

And I don’t know the answer. But as usual, I do know someone who does. And it’s my good friend, Rachel Lang. Rachel is an astrologer, psychic medium and a healer who has been developing her spiritual gifts for more than 20 years. I mean, she looks like she’s 20. But she’s been developing years, I guess, more than 20 years as well as knowing the ins and outs of astrology. And there’s so much to know she helps clients maximize the potential of their Natal charts as well and their upcoming transits and progressions. If you don’t know what that means. We’ll talk about it a little bit later in the show. You’ve seen her work and many publications including Bustle, Brit + Co, Romper, Pop Sugar, you’ve seen her on the Dates & Mates show. It’s been many mercury returns since then, it is time for you to return again, please give big switches to Rachel Lang. 

 

Rachel Lang  1:57  

Thanks so much for having me on the show. I’m excited to talk about two of my favorite subjects, astrology and love.

 

Damona  2:03  

This is such a hot topic. And people ask me all the time like how do I know if this person is the one? How do I like people want to know more about themselves in love and and I’ve studied with you in classes I am nowhere near I am like a zygote infant in the world of astrology and you know so much I was like, we just have to have Rachel to tell us what all of this stuff means because the birth chart really is it is a window into your path your soul. 

 

Rachel Lang  2:35  

Absolutely, yes. And I would say that you know more than you let on that you know. So give yourself a little bit of credit pat yourself on the back. 

 

Damona  2:45  

I did study I studied very hard at your astrology one on one course. But you’re the master. I’m really glad that you’re here today. 

 

And I’m glad you’re here to talk about the headlines with me including the real deal about pickup artists and how do you explain your it’s complicated status To your parents. Plus, a surprising twist to the love story of Mr. Rogers and his wife, Joanne. 

 

And then we’ll be answering your questions, including, is it a red flag if he brings up the bedroom before you’ve even met? And is it possible to date without dating apps? We’ll talk about all of those things on today’s Dates & Mates. Rachel, are you ready to do this? 

 

Rachel Lang

I’m Ready

 

Damona

Screenshot Mag is wondering: is the dating industry regressing now, as a dating coach, I have seen a lot of evolutions. I’ve been doing this for 16 years, starting out as a profile writer and then becoming specifically a life coach and dating coach. But I have seen the number of dating coaches in dating coaches increase. But according to this article, while the dating coach industry is growing, the pickup artists industry is growing faster and for those of you who aren’t quite up to speed on what that means. It’s like Have you heard of the game? Or like any of these terms like negging where a guy will sort of put down a girl to lower self esteem and make her more receptive to his advances? there? It’s a lot of strategies and manipulation that get someone to say yes to you to fall for you, but it’s not really it’s not what I do. I really coach people more for relationships for for life partnerships, that’s my expertise. And I don’t want to knock pickup artists because I think there is a value in having someone to help you build confidence, but I don’t think it should come at the expense of someone else’s well being.

 

Rachel Lang  4:47  

Absolutely because I think when someone’s approaching, dating or approaching, attracting someone to be in a relationship, if you’re starting from a place of inauthenticity, then they’re really Relationships not going to ever start on a solid ground. Plus, I think we’re moving out of this paradigm this like hetero normative paradigm that we’ve been in, where men are stereotypically acting a certain way and women are, are a certain way. And we’ve expanded our consciousness is expanded as a as a culture as a, as a human body. We’ve expanded beyond this. So I think some of those ideas that these pickup artists are, you know, talk, you know, the, that they’re like, Yeah, well, I can’t find the mode and some of those ideas are really steeped in, in an old model of relationships. And an old model of, you know of male and female gender norms. 

 

Damona  5:54  

Yeah, I wasn’t even actually thinking about that. So I’m glad that you brought up like this, this whole heteronormative like a man’s supposed to act this way a woman supposed to act that way? The part that really bothers me This is a huge industry. According to this article, the pickup artist community, not the dating coach community, specifically, artist 100 million dollar a year business. And I see these advertisements. What it does is it, it really preys on people’s weak spots.

 

And I’ve seen,

 

I’ve seen it sort of, it’s the marketing that bothers me. I’ve seen an evolution actually with a lot of people that were really entering the industry as pickup artists, they’re starting to move into my lane, and they’re like, we’ll hook you with all of that, you know, get her to sleep with you. But then when you get there, it actually is a lot of the personal development and wellness. I just wish we didn’t have to do that kind of messaging to get people to be invested in personal growth.

 

Rachel Lang  6:58  

Hmm. as a as a Dating Coach, do you struggle sometimes with that those kinds of people kind of coming into your territory or, or some of the the gray area around that

 

Damona  7:10  

I have abundance mindset, Rachel, which you could probably tell from my charge areas in your chart. So I’ve never thought this person is taking possible clients away from me, I think there are clients that are going to be attracted to that sort of marketing and their clients. I it’s very clear, that’s not what I’m about. So the men that listen to the show, and the men that work with me tend to be tend to be looking for something different. So I think everybody can have a seat at the table. Everybody can come to the party, as long as we’re like treating one another with respect, right, right. And coming from a place of authenticity is big for me, like you just said, Yeah, well, if you have, maybe you followed some of my strategies, and now you’re you’ve moved into a relationship, but sometimes there’s this gray area where you’re in Relationship maybe you’re in a situation ship, maybe you’re in a no labels relationship. And that gets complicated over the holidays, doesn’t it? Rachel? Yes, it does. Now, I will say I have not actually been in a situation where I brought a no label relationship home to my parents elite daily talks about how to discuss this relationship with your parents and the factors that make them either accepting of it or rejecting in if if they have strong feelings about it. You know, a lot of people still have very traditional families that want the heteronormative relationship, the these certain trajectory of now you’re dating and now you’re engaged. Now you’re getting married, and now you’re having kids. And I just find now so many people want to follow a different path, but I haven’t experienced that that I haven’t experienced before. Moment of needing to say, Hey Mom, this is my friend, but not having a label to it. Have you been in that situation before?

 

Rachel Lang  9:09  

Well, you know, I have so and I, you know what I came I came out of the closet pretty early in my late teens. And, and there were times when I had friends who were sort of were friends, but there was always like this, you know, and often I would just avoid the whole topic. I mean, I would just categorize the person as a friend and I wouldn’t tell my my family that that there was something more. So there was for me it was a there was a double layer of this is uncomfortable the subject matter is is is touchy. So I understand that the dilemma of how do you how do you how do you tell your parents that, you know, because I think what it all boils down to is when you’re in an undefined relationship. It’s perhaps a sexual relationship. And you might not want to tell your parents that you’re sleeping with this person. And so I think just keeping the whole sexual keeping the relationship and the sexual aspect of the relationship separated in your mind, in your conversations with your parents, I think that’s one way to approach it. Like, we don’t have to tell them everything that we’re doing

 

Damona  10:23  

know. And as a parent, I’m like, there’s some things they don’t get to know. Yeah. But I also think why put yourself in an awkward situation. Hmm. If you know that you’re going to get questions from your parents that maybe your no labels relationship can exist in your world. And if it’s not going to be accepted by your parents,

 

Rachel Lang  10:44  

just don’t even get up through it. Exactly. Exactly.

 

Damona  10:48  

Well, this was a surprise to me. You know, there’s this new Mr. Rogers movie coming out with Tom Hanks playing Mr. Rogers. I watched the documentary not that long ago. And you know, I thought They’re going to find some deep dark things and Mr. Rogers closet like nobody is that nobody is that nice and kind and altruistic. According to the documentary according to like l the biographers, Mr. Rogers, just a nice good guy, nice good guy. And there was a new article that that revealed the details in biography calm or revealed the details of his proposal to his wife and the I didn’t realize they had been together since college days. He was transferring colleges and she was like, going to welcome this new perspective student and they they hit it off and but then they were different year they were finishing a different year so they kind of had this long distance on again off again relationship. So we had to propose to her by letter, which shows I think is the sweetest thing and the funny thing you think like Mr. Rogers, it should be like a total claimed she was like in a she called him from like a phone booth. Yeah. And there was like graffiti scrawled. And the only answer she could get out when she, she accepted was we don’t really swear on the show but it was like sh It was like not at all what you would think of Fred Rogers wife saying right to his proposal. Yeah, this is a really sweet story

 

Rachel Lang  12:22  

so sweet. So I did his birth chart. Yeah, of course because I you know, I wanted to I wanted to find out what What’s the story behind the story. And he is just a total romantic. He’s got a Taurus rising. He’s a Pisces with the Pisces moon. And for our Pisces listeners out there in Pisces moon listeners, Pisces men have hearts of gold and can be very sensitive. But it’s not always it’s not always comfortable for men in our culture, and especially at that time, to be to be so sensitive and to be so in touch with their emotions. But he had this really this really beautiful chart total romantic and I could see him just being a faithful, loving husband and a loving partner.

 

Damona  13:05  

Yes, the only criticism that his wife Joanne had was he was too patient with the kids. So she had to be the family disciplinarian. And again, going back to like traditional gender roles. I appreciate that they worked through that. And they let that be their norm. Because it’s kind of the same thing with with my husband and I we don’t have we don’t have traditional gender roles, and I have no interest in that. I’m just more interested in finding out what works for my family. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, we’re going to tell you what works for you based on your birth chart and what is in the stars for you in love. And we’ll dive deeper into astrological compatibility in just a moment. But first while you’re here, make sure you do three and keep it free. Number one, subscribe number two, review and number three, share this episode with a friend I know astrology is super shares So I’m sure there’s someone that you know that will want to hear the information that Rachel is about to share on astrology and compatibility. So stick around this is Dates & Mates.

 

Commercial Break

 

We’re back with Rachel Lang. She’s an astrologer, a psychic medium and a healer, who’s here to talk to us about astrological compatibility in love. Rachel, I am so so so excited for you to be here for my birthday week talking about astrology. And it’s something that I’ve I’ve always been curious about. And I think the entry point for a lot of people into astrology is just like, this is your sun sign like this is yours. Like what people know of as your sign. Hey, baby, what’s your sign? That’s just your sun sign? Yeah, there’s so much more to astrology

 

Rachel Lang  14:53  

so much more. And I think that’s one thing that that that gets it gets tricky when we’re talking about compatibility because so many People know what sun signs they’re compatible with. But your chart is a reflection of so many different aspects of yourself. The sun sign is just one aspect. We have at the time of your birth the moon was in a certain place Mercury, which is how you communicate and relationships was in a certain place. Venus which is how you flirt, how you attract your love. Mars is kind of your your sex drive your passion, you know, what, what, what turns you on. And so we have all of these different aspects in our in our chart that make up our personality. And so when you’re looking at compatibility, you want to factor in everything and not just the sun sign.

 

Damona  15:44  

Mm hmm. And now, how do you I know the answer to this, but I’m sure a lot of our listeners are saying, okay, that’s nice, Rachel. But how do I find that out? Other than going to Rachel C. Lang calm and and getting a real With you, which I hope you will all do. How can they figure this out

 

Rachel Lang  16:04  

yet? So there are so many great apps now that are available. Time passages is a good app. costar is a great app. And are these free these are free. Yeah. So yeah, just plug in what do you what information do you need? You need your your birthday, the time and the place. And if you don’t have your birth time, this is what a lot of people say. I don’t have my birth time. How do I know? There are ways to figure it out. It’s there’s there’s a process called rectification. And there are certain astrologers who are great at this and it costs a little bit of money. If you don’t want to go that route, you can call the hospital that you were born in there often hospital records, birth certificates. So so there’s there’s always there’s always a way to figure it out. Yeah.

 

Damona  16:52  

And once you have your your chart like will put in the Dates & Mates blog what I can put my chart up there. It’s like It’s like putting like a naked selfie. So you’re all dizzy. But it’s a lot of symbols and lines and graphs and graphics. And it can be a little bit overwhelming for someone to just read on their own. What are the most important things for you to look at once once you’ve gotten your your birth chart? Yeah,

 

Rachel Lang  17:24  

great question. So the sun sign is the most important The sun is your essence, the moon is the second most important and that is your emotional self. So it’s more of your unconscious, subconscious self. So it’s your emotions. It’s how you relate to people. It’s what you need in relationships. And then the ascendant is your rising sign, and it’s what it what sign is on the eastern horizon at the time of your birth, and that’s how other people see you. And, and so often those are the three most important aspects to look at. And then after that, then you can say start exploring where the other planets are in your chart and how they relate to one another. And it shows your complexity that shows like where you get hung up some of those patterns that you just can’t get out of that you that make you feel stuck in life. And it also shows your potential and what you’re capable of achieving and your purpose in your destiny, all of those things.

 

Damona  18:21  

I’m going to ask you a very skeptical question, even though I’m what I classify as a skeptical believer. Why Why do you think this works? What what it like scientifically or spiritually? Why does astrology matter? Hmm? Well,

 

Rachel Lang  18:40  

scientifically,

 

all of the planets in our solar system have certain electromagnetic frequencies. There are actually even minerals and and chemical compounds that each one of them have and to say that we’re not affected by the Cosmos to say that we’re not affected by the moon by the sun, I mean you can see the the tides moving with the moon cycles we are all part of a bigger, bigger picture. And so in astrology we have until on a spiritual level we have saying As above, so below and that which is the microcosm is like that of the macrocosm. So we are all intricately connected to one another to the earth to the cosmos, in ways that we can see in ways that we can’t see. And this information has been in our collective unconscious for thousands and thousands of years. So, we, we we live based on the archetypes and and we have these mythological stories that inform this the structure and the creation of our of our universe in our cosmos. And we’re all a part of that. So, so I think it works, you know, it works on physical levels and it works on on more esoteric levels as well.

 

Damona  20:13  

And we see astrology in in other cultures as well. It’s really

 

baked into the fabric of interpersonal dynamics and communication. I also know

 

some people who do vedic astrology, which is not the same you’re doing Western astrology, right? Yeah, the explain the difference.

 

Rachel Lang  20:33  

Sure, sure. They’re different. They’re different calculation systems. And, and then there’s Chinese astrology too. So so different cultures have different astrological frameworks. But these are but astrology has been around since the beginning of of recorded history for thousands of years.

 

Damona  20:55  

Wow. Okay. I know what everyone’s thinking. They’re thinking well How do I know who’s going to be right for me like I I go I know you’re right for for a number of publications and bustle has like a whole section now on astrology so people scan through and they’re like, Who am I compatible with? This is my sun sign? Who should I be with? What do you say to that? Is that is that a real marker that we should be looking at?

 

Rachel Lang  21:24  

Yeah, so, again, sun sign astrology is great. It’s often an entry point to other to astrology to deeper levels of astrology. But the sun sign alone isn’t what we should be looking at for compatibility. Now, what I will say is if you don’t know the other factors in your chart, then then sun sign is a good starting point. And often what what you’ll find is that elements get along really well with similar elements.

 

Damona  21:55  

So let’s break that

 

Rachel Lang  21:57  

will break it down the elements and astrology In Western astrology, our earth air fire, water, and earth signs are Taurus Virgo Capricorn. And they tend to relate really well to other earth signs. And water signs are Cancer, Scorpio Pisces, and they tend to relate really well to one another as well. And fire signs and air signs are the same or similar. What with with the elements, each element features a specific set of goals a specific set of personality traits look for earth signs, it’s they’re very practically based. So they’re really interested in the material world. And in in, in taking, you know, in having good solid material security, building a life in that way. air signs for example, are more about intellect and communication and Id And sharing thoughts and those kinds of knew that your sons again, they’re Gemini, Libra and Aquarius, okay? And then our fire signs which you are

 

our throw all that out the wind.

 

fire signs are Aries, Sagittarius and Leo and fire signs are there, they’re passionate they want to they want to inspire people and they’re very active, and so they have a lot of energy that they need to exert. And so you can see how certain elements really relate well with other elements. And, and, and you can think about the elements themselves and, and to think about compatibility. So for example, water extinguishes fire. So if you’re a fire sign and waters water signs emphasize emotions, and there, they tend to be more intuitive and, and and so a lots happening beneath the surface and fire signs ready to go. And so there can be. And that doesn’t mean that fire signs and water signs can’t have amazing, wonderful relationships. It just means that you have to that you have to understand your, your particular needs and your particular personality differences in order to relate well with one another.

 

Damona  24:22  

Okay, so let’s talk in specifics. I’ll be the guinea pig. Yes, you have, you know everything about me, you have all my birth chart there. And then I also gave you my husband’s birth chart.

 

Much to his dismay.

 

He’s not so sure he’s it. He’s like into all it but he likes he supports the exploration for me. So I have had a pattern as a Sagittarius and whatever. I have a rising sign of cancer rising and a Scorpio moon. I know. I know my basic three. Yeah. I don’t know why I don’t think it makes sense. But you’ll probably tell me why it does. I’ve had many, many relationships with Virgos. And my husband again is a Virgo. Is that something where like cosmically, I keep Connect I keep pulling like pretty much everyone I every boyfriend I had was Virgo in an except for one who was like almost on the cusp of Leo Virgo.

 

Rachel Lang  25:21  

Hmm, interesting. Well, well so Virgo so your Saturn Saturn is we’ll talk about Saturn in a second. Um, I would say that there are two reasons why Virgo, why you tend to attract three brigand reasons why you tend to attract Virgo men. First of all, I’m a great big mess and

 

Damona  25:41  

they put it all together totally

 

Rachel Lang  25:46  

No, so Virgo. So Sagittarius and Virgo are Sagittarius is fire Virgos Earth and they’re what we call square one another both mutable signs, and I’m getting mutable signs. It’s okay we can okay. Okay, go ahead. Okay. So, so mutable signs. So there are three. In addition to elements. There are qualities. And qualities are Cardinal fixed and mutable. Cardinal signs are Aries, cancer, Capricorn and Libra. And they’re all about initiating taking action. You have some Cardinal in your in your chart, but you’re primarily mutable and mutable signs follow Cardinal. And I’m sorry, they follow fixed. mutable signs are, are kind of like what’s next? What’s going to happen next there, they’re more adaptable. They’re more flexible. And our fixed signs are Tell that to my house.

 

Well, you have a you have a perfect match of fixed and mutable in your chart. So fixed signs can be a little bit stubborn. And and they’re the ones that stick with it. And they’re the ones who don’t give up and they’re great in relationships. If it’s a good healthy Relationship he’s got a lot of he must have a lot of fixed. He doesn’t actually he does not. He’s primarily mutable. Oh my god. So two mutable signs can be like squaring one another meaning your your sun signs actually form almost an exact 90 degree angle away from each other. Now, wait, wait, wait, wait.

 

Damona  27:19  

You’re saying looking at my chart and my husband’s chart? Looking at the geometry of it? Yep.

 

Rachel Lang  27:25  

Yep. They fit together. They fit together. Yes. But here’s the thing. So some people were born to need really easy, really like no stress relationships. And some people need a little bit of excitement. You and he are the type of people who need a little bit of excitement. And we’re each just exciting enough for one another. Exactly, exactly. Wow.

 

In addition to that, so the 90 degrees gives a little bit of tension, but it’s healthy tension because you stretch and you grow. Neither one of you are going to be okay and In a relationship where there’s not growth, or there’s not like, you know, you’re not going to be in a complacent relationship, you need to put pressure on one another to evolve to expand. And so this is a relationship with a tremendous amount of creative potential. Ah, yeah. Now, Virgo is really significant for you in your chart, because there’s a sensitive point called the north node. The North node is a destiny point and everyone has one. And it is what you’re reaching toward in this lifetime. What what you’re here to experience, but it’s not your comfort zone. Your comfort zones, the opposite point. And that’s often what’s familiar. What’s, you know what we have in your pad? Yes, it’s comfy. Exactly. old pair G. Exactly. Yes. Yes. So your North know that that uncomfortable place is in the place of Virgo and the sign of virgo.

 

Damona  28:58  

Stop that Yeah, yeah. So like what let me like amateur astrologer this so that means like basically he’s here to create the challenge that I need to drive me push me further and yes drive to evolve to grow to be your best self. Yeah rejoin know it’s kind of emotional

 

actually when you do this, especially when we’re talking about love and compatibility like when you really understand yourself and that’s what I always say with relationships. You’ve guys have heard me say this on the show before your job is to find the person that is your highest possible match for you. And so you’re if you’re in one of those comfy jeans, relationships, and it’s not it’s not your ideal match. You are doing two people a disservice you’re blocking the person that you’re with from being able to find their best match and you are not getting you’re not growing to your your best self.

 

Rachel Lang  29:55  

Absolutely. And I think when when I work with clients Who are in those comfy jeans relationships, it doesn’t mean that you have to leave the comfy jeans relationship. You just have to rock the boat, you have to change the comfy patterns. And so if that means that you you never fight, and this is your thing, you never fight and everything’s good, but it’s boring, there’s no passion, then speaking honestly and saying, I don’t like this or you know, rocking the boat a little bit creating some conflict might actually be healthy conflict, not just unnecessary conflict, productive conflict. But that could be the thing that that drives you to stay together and to reinvent the relationship.

 

Damona  30:37  

Are there things that people need to understand about their chart? Obviously, we’ve talked in specifics about a lot of different things from you know, fixed, mutable, mutable, and Cardinal and fire and air and earth and water. Are there certain guidelines that people should always be looking for when They’re talking about compatibility. A lot of the listeners of the show are they’re dating. So they don’t necessarily, like have the ability to say, and tell me again, what was your birth date and time and place? It’s a little bit too much for early dating. But are there certain signals or signs that you should look for more know in yourself before you go on a date?

 

Rachel Lang  31:20  

Great question. So I think knowing your sun, your moon and your rising, really important and again, you can get you can get this information free on the internet, you can get it free on apps. That way, you know, what you need in relationships. If you have a cancer moon and and you’re going out dating, cancer moons actually need someone who’s a little bit more sensitive, and they need someone who can talk about emotions, who’s not afraid of getting who’s not afraid of getting close. They also need emotional security. And so for someone with a cancer moon knowing What sun signs might best resonate with that? You know, other water signs, for example. That’s something that’s important. So I think knowing yourself first can can really help. And then just knowing sun signs actually can be helpful. Sun signs tend to get along really well with complimentary sun signs.

 

Damona  32:21  

And then how do you bridge that conversation? Like, Hey, baby, what’s your sign? Like? How do you get the information? I find a lot of people don’t even know what their sun sign is like that. You if you go on a date with someone, or they think you’re weird if you ask, how can you get it out in a way that’s like, kinda sly?

 

Rachel Lang  32:40  

Cool. Well, you there’s, you know, you can you can talk about like, oh, for my birthday, I did this when it’s your birthday. You can

 

Damona  32:50  

like slip it into conversation. Did you always when you were dating, did you always ask people you must listen? Yes, yeah, but

 

Rachel Lang  32:55  

here’s the thing. I also got myself into big trouble doing this. So There, you might take the alternative approach and just not find out and not know until you get to know the person. When my wife when I first did our charts together, I saw some things that were like

 

Damona  33:12  

red, I was like, nope, this will never work not going to happen, just in terms of like who you were or in terms of your compatibility in

 

Rachel Lang  33:21  

terms of just just looking at our charts, but I realized now that I was really, I was kind of I was kind of blocking I was I had my own relationship commitment, things that I had to work through first,

 

Damona  33:31  

right.

 

Rachel Lang  33:34  

But I think I think Um, so yeah, so I do I did. I used to do it, but I used to do the whole chart and understand every aspect of it. But I think when you’re first falling in love, you want the magic of love, you don’t like astrology can get really analytical, and so can I. And sometimes that’s good. That’s helpful because you can see the red flags before you go into a relationship or invalid In, in your any more of your precious time. But I think keeping a real balance between knowing what you’re getting into and understanding how your how your astrology, astrological compatibility works or doesn’t work. I think you have to balance that with letting yourself experience love and letting yourself experience the connection, whatever it happens to be.

 

Damona  34:25  

Yeah, that’s great advice. As an astrologer, and just generally in in life and in love. If people want to explore further with you, you kind of have two options, right? You have someone can come to you for reading, but you’re also still teaching Yeah, teaching astrology and helping more people be able to do this great work. Can you tell us about what you have coming up and how people can can get a session with you? Yeah,

 

Rachel Lang  34:52  

thank you. So yeah, so I do, I do sessions one on one. I do couple sessions. If you’re just starting a really friendship and you want to know a little bit about your compatibility, I do have those kinds of sessions as well. And I’m teaching classes three classes starting in actually four classes starting in 2020. Doing astrology one on one, just the basics, then advanced for transits and progressions, so you can you know, so for the first three months of the year, I’ll be I’ll be teaching all kinds of astrology.

 

Damona  35:27  

All right, let’s, let’s bring it down to the earth plane, right? People that are just learning about sun signs. When you say transits and progressions What’s up,

 

Rachel Lang  35:36  

so transits so our natal chart, a birth chart shows our personality, of kind of a roadmap of our lives. And transits are the planets that are moving around in the heavens today and how they’re affecting one another. And how they aspect your birth chart. So it’s kind of a predictive tool. It shows us a little Bit of a forecast of what’s coming up of what’s happening for us in the collective but also what’s happening for us personally.

 

Damona  36:07  

So that’s how you get the difference between this is my birth chart. This is who I am. And this is my day to day horoscope Exactly. Yes. What you read in the paper all that exactly and what you read you also write for idea. Tell us where we can read your your horoscope horoscopes. Thank you. Yeah, I write

 

Rachel Lang  36:26  

horoscopes for life box magazine, and also for the Omega Institute, their monthly newsletter, and they’re also on my website. I also do articles about Mercury Retrograde about full moons and new moons rituals that you can do for those.

 

Damona  36:43  

Okay, we’re going to put the links in the show notes. I have done the classes you guys and again, I’m not good at it. But I it was really valuable information in even just the one on one is a ton of information that you can really use and I get you Your email every month with the horoscopes, the monthly horoscopes, and it’s one of like very few emails when my inbox is, is clogged up, I still will go to your email first and be like, Okay, well what’s Rachel saying that’s coming for the month. So thank you for being here to share all this. I hope everyone will get get whatever they need, whether it’s the one on one support or even learning how to do this themselves. We also have questions from listeners. So if you can stick around one more segment, okay.

 

This one comes to us from Instagram. This person says if a guy brings up the bedroom in a text before you’ve even met, is that a red flag now without knowing what’s in their birth chart, or their birth time and place? Do you think it’s a red flag? If somebody is like, I would love to see what you’re like in the bedroom and you haven’t even had a first date?

 

Rachel Lang  37:58  

That’s a good question. Think it depends on the on the person on the person receiving the the text because there are some people who might be more inclined to wonder those things as well you know the the different personality types need different things. So for some people it’s going to be a red flag for other people it’s not

 

Damona  38:19  

I just wonder if for that person to have that bold approach it says a little bit about them and because it’s so likely for that to backfire and makes me wonder if they feel comfortable saying that that early on, if they have either a lack of awareness of just social norms because you know, there may be some people’s or not but turned on by it, but it’s sort of like dick pics like it’s it’s sort of a 200 to one ratio like, might send 200 dick pics and one person is like, thank you so much for this dick pic and then 199 people go, I hate this. Why did you send me this? Yeah, block and report? Yeah,

 

Rachel Lang  39:10  

I know I can tell you for me it would probably be a red flag. Yeah, just because you know they’re there. There’s it’s kind of like if you’re if you’re in an if you’re if you’re flying, you’re you’re going to want the airplane to kind of take off gently and then reach a cruising altitude and then land it. It’s like if you go straight into the air, it’s like startling. Yeah,

 

Damona  39:33  

yeah. And I actually she sent me the text. So I read in contacts. And I will say like, it didn’t seem completely out of the norm. It was kind of like, mixed in with a lot of other things. But it just feels to me unnecessary. So if you’re including that in your early text, I would say maybe just pump the brakes a little bit until at least after you’ve met. But I find especially for women, it tends to make them feel a little bit crazy. Being like creeped out if you do that too soon,

 

Rachel Lang  40:03  

but she was she’s sending any other. She’s sending any messages like Okay, so that’s another thing too I think read the read them.

 

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Damona  40:14  

Totally. Okay, let’s see if we’re psychically connected. Okay, one question comes to us from Facebook. And this lady is wondering, is it possible to meet someone today without dating apps? What is your advice for people who want to date but don’t want to do it online? Hmm. What do you think I know you’re a married lady. Now.

 

Rachel Lang  40:31  

I know I am. And happily, so. I, I think that you can I think definitely, people meet if two souls are are supposed to meet and if you’re, if you’re, if you’re really you know, manifesting love and your persons there, I think it’s possible to meet. I think that going online gets you into the dating realm. It can Kind of speed things up. But it’s, I think it can help. But I have a lot of clients, I work with a lot of clients who who do manifest relationships or get into relationships where they’re not going online.

 

Damona  41:13  

Yeah, yeah, I think it is. You guys have heard me say this on the show before, but it’s the most powerful tool in your dating toolbox. But it shouldn’t be the only thing that you’re doing. I think it’s like you said the manifesting, right. It’s the focus on love, the strategy, the way that you go about it more than it is about the tool. But just for a lot of people that are busy, or coming out of relationships or just haven’t dated. It’s an excellent tool for ramping up your dating options very quickly, and also giving you the practice exactly today. So maybe not think so much about the end game, but what is the experience that you want to have and if you think that experience is not online, then just know that you’re going to have to triple down on your effort in other areas, if that is your ultimate goal,

 

Rachel Lang  42:03  

right, right. And also, I think some people going online for the first time can get overwhelmed with all the choices. And I, you know, I’m sure that you know more than I do, but when I, when I talk to clients who are doing online dating, I say be very discerning. And don’t just go on a bunch of dates just to go on a bunch of dates, like filter filter exactly before,

 

Damona  42:26  

get their birth date, their birth time, and where they’re born, and then you can really figure out the date with them or not. Thank you so much for being here, Rachel, for having me. And we’ll put all the links in the show notes, but you can find Rachel at Rachel Lang astrologer calm she’s also on Instagram, and we will tag her on lots of posts this week at Rachel lang 11. Thank you so much for listening to Episode 285 of Dates & Mates. All of the links for the stories in the dating dish and everything else will be on our website datesandmates.com and I’m at Damona Hoffman on all of the social so you can join in on the conversation, you can send me questions for future episodes. We will be back again next week with a deer Damona episode and you know what that means? It’s all questions from you. And you know the best way to get me questions for a dear Damona episode is by messaging me on social media, or by emailing me Damona at Damona hoffman.com. I hope you enjoyed today’s episode all about love and astrology. celebrate my birthday with me. It’s on November 27 this week right before Thanksgiving. And I also wish you a very happy Thanksgiving. I hope you and your family and your friends giving is everything you dream it will be and I wish you lots of luck and love. Until next week. I wish you happy dating