Tag Archive for: COVID-19

Getting Ghosted & Date Health


Dr. James Simmons of Ask the NP joins Damona to talk about how to stay healthy dating in the time of COVID, ways to reduce your risk of Super Gonorrhea, and de-stigmatizing mental health.

But first, here are the headlines:


Drew Barrymore Got Stood Up

Is there hope for you if Drew Barrymore is getting stood up on dates? 


21 Dating Goals

Bustle shares 21 ways to get your flirt on in 2021.


How to Stay Safe & Still Date

Follow James Simmons at AsktheNP


Damona covers listener questions:

Has everyone forgotten how to communicate these days?

Should you give him a third chance if he’s canceled twice before?


Ok Cupid expects 25 million new matches to be made this January – a big increase from last year⁠. Are you missing out? Download OkCupid today!

Try Magic Spoon: Take $5 off your first order of the healthy cereal that’s too good to be true – Magicspoon.com/dates

Get The Dating Secret – Registration is open through January 20th at thedatingsecret.com

Get Your Ex Back & Daddy Culture


Since Damona’s first advice column in the LA times ran with a question about whether or not you should reach out to your ex during the pandemic – we’ve been getting a ton of questions on this topic.

So today we bring in Lee Wilson whose primary platform is all about how to get your ex back. We’ll tell you if you should make a move and how to do it if that’s what you want.


But first, Damona covers headlines:


The latest stats on COVID dating behaviors

Damona received a new study from the dating app Iris on dating habits in New York at this time. Damona covers a few key findings: men are lowering their standards right now, don’t expect any in-person dates right now, and authenticity is IN.


What is ‘Daddy Culture’

Following the really concerning Chris D’Elia allegations, the world is finally having a long overdue conversation on ‘Daddy Culture’ and the age of consent. Damona breaks it down and tells you why you should be concerned.


Divorce is the only option

Kelly Clarkson announced her divorce to Brandon Blackstock. Damona has thoughts on their relationship and why it perhaps wasn’t meant to be.


Ex 101: The No Contact Rule (11:00)

Damona welcomes Lee Wilson to the show. He’s a relationship expert and dating coach. After being a marriage consultant with two nonprofit organizations for several years, Lee went out on his own and started coaching both men and women on how to get their ex back after a breakup or separation and also on how to improve their relationships to prevent breakups, separation, or divorce.

He always says that your first instincts are almost always the exact wrong thing to do and can push your ex away – so he’s going to help us get clear on whether it’s worth trying to get back with your ex.

They discuss:

  • Should your ex back
  • What NEVER to do if you want them back
  • The no contact rule


Find more from Lee on Youtube or at myexbackcoach.com


Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • From Jem on IG – how do you deal with flaky people? If people get ghosted should they call the person out to stand up for themselves rather than letting the person think it’s okay to treat people like that.
  • Listener on FB says: I really like this guy but he wont wear a mask anywhere. Should I let him know this really bothers me?


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  • and to become part of a community that will help you find the healthiest, most loving relationships this year



Damona  0:12  

Hello lovers. Welcome to dates and mates. Since my first advice column in the LA Times ran last month with a question about whether or not you should try to reach out to your ex during the pandemic, I have been getting a ton of questions on this topic. So today, I’m bringing in Lee Wilson, whose primary platform is all about how to get your ex back. And we’ll tell you if you should make a move and how to do it if that’s what you want. In the meantime, I’m also going to get you up to speed on this week’s headlines. We’ll talk about the latest statistics on dating culture during COVID. And what it means for your love life. And what is daddy culture and why you should be concerned. Plus, Kelly Clarkson reveals why divorce was her only option. Then as always, at the end of the show, I’ll answer your questions including, should you stand up to ghosts? And what do you do if the guy you’re dating won’t wear a mask? It’s a metal by pandemic, y’all. Oh, we’re gonna have a lot to talk about on today’s dates and mates. It’s time for the dish,


Damona  1:29  

A recent survey from the dating app, Iris came across my desk. You know, I love a good survey. But this is something that is impacting your life right now. They looked at the dating habits of single New Yorkers in the era of COVID. And as you know, New York was hit pretty darn hard by it. So they’re sort of our canary in the coal mine. And they asked them about their comfort level with dating again, in person dates versus versus online virtual dates, Netflix and chill and so much more. Here’s what they found out. males were nearly 25% more likely than females to lower their standards. During quarantine. I’m very curious about what lowering the standards means. Because I find that a lot of people have standards that are not realistic. It’s not even about high standards. It’s just like standards that don’t really exist in the real world. And so maybe this is actually a good thing that people are starting to examine what’s on there must have list and realize that the the internal qualities and the values of that person have a lot more to do with compatibility than how they look in a bikini. And so I’m kind of comforted by that information. But it looks like people aren’t going to be moving offline anytime soon. This survey said in person dates are still a thing of the future. 26% scent of singles aren’t going to risk it and would rather wait until 2021 for their next in person dates. About 14% of people, though, said that they would go out as soon as the quarantine is lifted. And you’ve heard me say on the show before that I think as soon as states open up and things are more free, you’re going to see the dating floodgates open. And I think this survey is capturing attitudes of the last few weeks and months. But it’s amazing how how quickly we forget, and how quickly our attitudes can change. So we’ll see how that pans out. But people are saying that video dating is just not making up for in person connections. And over half of the respondents are no more willing to try video dating now than they were pre COVID. But I read that y’all and you know what I hear. I hear that almost half of the respondents are willing to try video, which I feel is something that was not even in the Zeitgeist, even though I do Talk about it in my future of dating masterclass in March right before the pandemic it, I do think people will be more open to it going forward. We’ll put the link to the entire survey results in the show notes. But what it tells me is that people are more open to making real connections. The question is, will it really last one thing that I’m hoping doesn’t continue is daddy culture. This is basically the the romanticization if that’s even a word of younger women with older men from either side, and looking at the crystal Leah case, if you all haven’t heard crystal Leah who’s an actor and comedian, he is going down y’all for approaching young women and when I say young women, I’m saying young women. I think Chris is like 40 years old, and he has been tweeting and chatting with women that are like 16 1718 not even now he’s been accused by these women of requesting nude photographs from them and sending lewd texts and pulling out his erect penis in front of others. I don’t know why comedians think we all want to see their erect penis out of their pants, but just stick to your jokes, and zip it up, y’all. But what this brings to light is that there actually is this whole culture. And if you go into Twitter, you’ll see there are all these women that are almost wearing it as a badge of honor that they’re able to date men that are old enough to be their fathers, or even older than that. And there’s this sexualization of the barely legal women. And I fully understand that sometimes we idolize someone older and a lot of relationships can fall into sort of a mentor mentee dynamic. But it starts to get really dangerous when you’re talking about people who are not even of legal consent age or are still, like your frontal lobe is still developing, when you’re 16 1718, you will engage in riskier behavior and do things that you don’t necessarily think through because literally, your brain is not fully formed. So if you are someone who thinks it’s appropriate to date, someone of that age, and shockingly, I looked up the age of consent in many states, I thought it was 18 everywhere. It’s not in many places. It’s actually 16. But not only can it be criminal, but actually, the question is, is it really ethical? Or are you being a predator in pursuing someone that is that much younger than you or in that specific time of life, so I didn’t have any luck. For crystal Leah anyway, but now that this has come to light, I’m really going to be focusing on daddy culture and these age gap relationships and helping people to ask what is really appropriate for them. Kelly Clarkson and her husband Brandon Blackstock, have called it quits. And this has been an interesting romance to follow. They actually originally met, like in 2004. But they officially started dating in 2011. And things moved really quickly. They announced their engagement in 2012. And then they got married less than a year later, and then a few months later than they had a child together. And then they had another child two years later. So they’ve really been on this on this fast track to love. And that’s what I really want to caution you about. A lot of times people tell me Oh, things are going great because it’s moving so quickly, and I don’t want to deal with wasting time with the wrong person. And I’m just so sure that I’m with by with my person now. So I’m just going to go full speed ahead. And a lot of times when you burn out when you burn that fast you burn out. And that seems to be what happened. They had irreconcilable differences, essentially. And she’s not really commenting on what exactly went wrong. And honestly, that’s her business. I’m not going to get in it. But what I want you to know is that it’s important to take your time and to make sure that especially if you’re in a situation like Kelly, where she’s got a lot of finances, she’s got a big career that she’s managing. And you want to make sure if you’re engaging in a relationship with someone that it’s it’s going to be additive to your life and not be something that drains your energy or that takes away from who you are and what you want to achieve. So I wish Kelly lots of luck. In this next chapter of her life, and I hope that she and her kids and Brandon are all going to be okay. That is the dish before you move on. I just want to ask your opinion on my latest Washington Post article. It’s asking our dating preferences. Actually an example of racial bias if you exclude people of a certain race from your dating pool. It was published online last Thursday was in the print issue of the magazine on Sunday. And I have to admit, I was a little bit nervous leading up to the release because I knew it would make some people uncomfortable. I have always dated race open, not colorblind, but race open. But I know for a lot of people we’ve hidden behind this idea that race can be a dating preference. So we talked about it a couple weeks ago, but I’d love for you to read the article. I’ll link to it in the show notes. I’d love to know what you really think. And I appreciate all of you who are willing to engage with me on this question. And I encourage you to continue the conversation. So if you have thoughts, share them with me on Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter at damona Hoffman. Or you can always join the Patreon Friends with Benefits Program, and we can really get down into it. That’s my private Facebook group for all of the super fans of dates and mates who need a little extra love and want to support the show that’s at patreon.com slash dates and mates. Anyways, there’s so much more coming. I’m going to tell you how to get your ex back along with Lee Wilson. And then I’ll answer your questions on ghosting and dating during COVID right after this.


Welcome back. I am here with Lee Wilson. He’s a relationship expert and dating coach. He’s been a marriage consultant with to nonprofit organizations for many years, and then he went out on his own and start coaching for both men and women on how to get their ex back after a breakup or separation, and also on how to improve their relationships to prevent breakups, separation or divorce. Please help me welcome Lee Wilson and let’s give them some big smooches. Thank you. pushes back. I love it when that happens. Thank you so much. I’m excited to have you here. Because I’ve been getting a lot of questions about exes. And I feel like because we’re in quarantine right now. I mean, some of you states aren’t still in quarantine, but I live in California and it’s still pretty locked down here. And we are feeling like the isolation. I think it makes us nostalgic for the past. It’s so funny. Actually, my daughter was asking me about my exes. And I’m like, I hadn’t thought about them in years. And then I was like, Huh, I wonder what he’s been up to you. Like this Google search, and I’m like, What am I doing? Is this corn? Is that what’s going on?


Lee Wilson  12:06  

Well, most of the people that I talked to, it’s fresher than that. You know, it’s a it’s an x from two months ago, or even very fresh breakup week or two. Most the time, when it’s fresh when it’s the same day or the same week. your instincts tell you that you have to do something right away, like this person’s falling off a cliff, and you’ve got to act quickly, or you’ll lose them forever. That’s the kind of response and reaction most people have, what do I need to do because I need to do it right away time is moving by quickly and I need to do something or I’m going to lose him or lose her. And so usually, my job is to convince them to take a breath. You don’t have to get them back today. You don’t have to get them back this week or this month to get them back. So Matter of fact, time is really on your side. If you don’t apply all that pressure you feel like you should apply Because that’s actually what will push them further away.


Damona  13:03  

Yeah, absence does make the heart grow fonder. I wonder though, is there a conversation around? Should you even be getting your ex back?


Lee Wilson  13:15  

I have that quite a bit, I usually will ask questions about the relationship. And there have been quite a few times where I’ve said, you really should stay away from this person. There was a woman who was about my mother’s age, and she was telling me about this man she had been dating, and some of the awful things he did like, and at one point, I just said, I’m just being honest, I don’t want to help you get this guy back. I want to help you escape, find somebody who treats you right, you know, just awful. And I said, Why do you want this guy back knowing the answer, but it was the human part of me asking why? Because the reason she wanted him back is because when he broke up with her, she felt loss. And so sometimes I remember one client, I think helped him get a girlfriend because I do help people attract love. And he had gotten a girlfriend, things are going pretty well. And then he had a coach. He called me and he said, you know, though? I don’t I don’t. I’m kind of thinking I might date around a little bit. He was actually asking me how to kind of slow it down with her. He calls me he booked a call about a week later, she broken up with him. He was crying. He was desperate. She’s his soulmate now. Like what changed from a week ago? A week ago, you were you were wanting to slow things down and maybe break up with her. But what changed is, he lost control.


Damona  14:37  

Yeah, rejection happened.


Lee Wilson  14:38  

Yeah, she’s wanting to move. She’s moving away from him. He has that sense of loss. And he wants to get back what he thought he has far as control and also it lowers your feeling attractiveness. You feel like you’re not attractive enough to keep this person and so you want some self confidence back. You want some of that self image back. So there’s a lot more Going on besides just I love this person, they broke up with me that you’re feeling. Most people do love the other person, but a lot of it is loss. It’s that sense of loss that makes you so desperate. You want to be validated. You want this other person to say you’re worthy.


Damona  15:13  

So how do you heal from that, like, you’ve been through that loss? You’ve been through that rejection, you’ve been through that loss of control, you hit the nail on the head with that, Lee? And then and then what like, do you recommend that they have a period of distance from their former partner?


Lee Wilson  15:34  

If they want the person back? Then what I tell people is you have to give them the breakup. And what that will mean is is that you don’t make an effort to get them back, at least not right away. And a lot of that is being it’s doing a couple of things. First of all, it’s being respectful because if they said they want to break up and you’re just not giving them the breakup, it appears kind of like you’re pitching a fit Like a child in a toy store, and the parents have said no, and the child just keeps pestering,


Damona  16:05  

I’ve been there. Yeah.


Lee Wilson  16:09  

It’s desperation. And it causes people to beg. And it’s the exact opposite of what you should be doing because it’s not attractive. And the reason we’re begging it goes back to that sense of loss of control. Because what happens if you’re face to face with a dictator, and this person says, your car’s now mine, your house is now mine, and you’re going to live in a dungeon for the rest of your days, and you have no power, all you can do is what? beg for mercy, right? And that’s what happens when your ex breaks up with you. They have all the power and so you feel like all you can do is beg and plead and try to make a miracle happen to get them back. Whereas if you have the control yourself, you would not be pushing and begging and pleading with them. And it only makes matters worse, because it shows that them that you’re not strong enough to stay away. And they also will think, if this person, is this hurt by this breakup, then I can get them back whenever I want if I wanted to, because usually they’re not 100% sure, usually it’s 90% 80%. And you can work on that. But if you convince them that you were just so miserable without them, that all they would have to do is snap their fingers and get you back, then it frees them up to not have to worry about that if they do start missing you. Like a lot of times, people who are quiet after a breakup and just you know, I respect your decision. I think we’re great together. But you know, I can’t my gonna try to change you.


Damona  17:42  

I can’t make you love me if you don’t


Lee Wilson  17:46  

write a song about that.


Lee Wilson  17:47  

I think that’d be a hit.


Lee Wilson  17:51  

But if if you just back off and give them the breakup, and what that means is your absence that’s what they’re saying. They don’t want you in their life anymore. They may, they may sanitize it by saying, Let’s still be friends or you know stuff like,


Damona  18:05  

Oh, I hate that. I mean, can we talk about that for a secondly, that let’s still be friends. Like, I will say, I am friends with most of my exes. But it didn’t happen right away. And I always like had a period of healing where I was like, Don’t let’s not talk right now. But I hate that like, we could still be friends. No, you can’t like my heart is broken, is it? So there’s like a no contact rule that you have your clients do for a period of time.


Lee Wilson  18:34  

Right? And, by the way, when your now ex pitches, the friendship thing. First of all, the important thing is you don’t act like a friend. Now, some coaches will have a real cold approach to this. And so this other coach said, if they pitch friendship, say no. I do not accept your offer. Only contact me if you want a relationship. What If they’re 99% sure they want to get back with you, but they’re not 100% sure, then they’re gonna remember you saying, don’t you contact me unless you want the relationship back. So now they kind of feel trapped. If I call her if I call him


Damona  19:12  

just to explore Yeah, then it’s, I have to have a marriage proposal ready to go.


Lee Wilson  19:18  

Right. Right. And you basically you give away your opportunity to retract them because you want to have it set up where when you’re not there anymore, you’re not texting, you’re not seeing them, and they miss you. And they think boy sure would be nice to interact to text to hear his voice or hear her voice. And they reach out. Your number one, they feel like they can that you’re approachable because you weren’t jerk about it. And they don’t feel like they have to have all their ducks in a row yet.


Damona  19:46  

I’m very interested in what you’re saying. You pique my interest with the retraction element. Walk us through that. What What do you need to do as someone that is on on the receiving end of the breakup, and let’s say you’ve given it time, you’ve had the No Contact rule, and then you’re like, I’m ready to retract this person. And I definitely think they’ve made a bad decision in letting me go. And this is the person for me. They’ve made a mistake, but we’re meant to be we’re destined, how can I retract them? Li,


Lee Wilson  20:19  

part of the retraction is that you’re quiet. Because that’s the ultimate mystery. When you answer the question. You’ve relieved the mystery. When the question lingers, and they don’t have any answers. That’s when there’s mystery and they want the answer. So the most powerful thing is actually the question, not the answer. And you want to be a question mark, because they’re thinking, is he not going to come after me? Or she’s not going to try to get me back. And so whereas when they broke up with you, even if they’re a good person, and they do care about you, they still see themselves as more attractive because it’s a little bit of an ego boost when you break up with somebody. Yeah, you’re the decider directing them. Yeah. You have the power, this person starts to feel like okay, maybe I’m not up here, maybe it’s more like this. Maybe we’re more even. And that’s kind of the start of the dominoes falling. Then it’s curiosity like, What? What’s this person doing? Is there somebody else? You know, here it is night time I’m looking at my phone, they’re not texting me, what are they doing? And this person can kind of become preoccupied with you. And so the first part of retracting them is doing nothing. It’s just literally literally staying away from them, which takes a lot of strength to do. It’s writs. It’s much more difficult than it sounds because most people I speak with fail.


Damona  21:36  

Can I just add though, having been through this experience myself and also coached clients through it, it is so much more fulfilling. If you cannot be focusing on that person and not be chasing that person. It drains your energy so quickly, right? And it’s like, it’s almost like Like you said, it’s a way to reconnect claim your power, you have the power of not contacting them and even like, not stalking them on social media, that seems to me like it’s just a recipe for disaster. What’s your feeling on that?


Lee Wilson  22:13  

Yeah, it’s counterproductive. If you have anxiety at all, it’s really bad usually. And it’s, most of the time it’s going to make you at least tempt you to do the things you should not do. If you want to retract this person, and I hear a lot of excuses, because I will tell people stay away and they’re wanting magic words, you know, that they’re wanting me to be this guru in the forest. And they get to me and they’re like, what do I need to do? And so they expect me to tell them something, it’s gonna be really difficult like these, this incredible thing to say, are this crazy pattern of events? And so when I say yeah, there’s no contact. They’re wanting it to be, I think more majestic and glittery. realize is that that is hard. It’s like if I told you to walk a mile across glass, you know, and you get your ex back. They’d be like, Alright, where’s the glass? Well, this is the hard thing that I’m telling you. It’s not walking over glass, but it’s probably equally equally as hard and it’s to stay away. And I remember this one particular gentleman who was trying to get his ex back and told him stay away. And four days later, I got an email from him. And he said, just want you to know, I reached out to her. Of course, I’m just like, you know, I’m not just saying this. Sounds good.


Damona  23:34  

You know, I’ve seen program works great when you do the exact opposite of what I recommend. Yeah.


Lee Wilson  23:40  

I’ve seen thousands of cases. You know, I haven’t this wasn’t just like, yeah, I had this girlfriend. One time, she broke up with me and I didn’t contact her and got her back. I’m basing this on thousands of cases. You know, this is not just advice from your aunt. And so he told me that he said that, I just thought it’d be a good idea to keep the lines of community Be open. And so he had a call booked about two weeks after that. And we spoke. And of course, he told me the disaster that unfolded after he did that. And you know, I just kind of said to him, you know, I told you not to communicate, but he hadn’t he had reasoned with himself and wanted to contact are so bad that He justified and found a way. And most people will do that they will look for Excuses, excuses to contact this person. Because if here’s what here’s why it feels like if you could just talk to them, you could talk to the old version of them. And YouTube would get back together. Because what people have difficulty realizing is they’ve changed and you’re not talking to the same person. So the same rules don’t apply. So,


Damona  24:54  

so when you’re in that situation, and let’s say let’s say you have a client That is fully committed and they’ve they’ve kept the no contact. Is there a certain point where you’re like, Okay, you’ve, you’ve come to a different place and you should make contact? Or is it always just about waiting enough time where that person gets to ever? Like, do you plant a seed and like your friends here? How do you do it?


Lee Wilson  25:23  

No, no, I would not suggest planting a seed in a frenzy. Oh, man, I have horror stories about that. Here’s why your friends will overestimate their ability to help. They think they think the same thing you do. If they could just have a little talk with them. Well, they’ll win them back for you. And they’re so so wrong. Because what they’ll do is they’ll go to this person. And they’ll they’ll say, this is true story. This actually happened in high school. So he goes this guy and he’s like, man, she loves you so much. All she does is cry. I mean, just made the sob story thinking, thinking that this I would feel so sorry for her they take her back. But the lesson which I didn’t know at the time because I was 16 stupid, was pitting someone is not attraction. They’re very different. And so he ended up making the situation much worse. I learned the lesson right away when my friends asked how I’m doing, I’m doing great. Don’t even tell them if you’re, you know, miserable.


Damona  26:21  

Exactly. Should you be dating? Should you like we hear about the rebound relationship? Should you just go in and put yourself back out there?


Lee Wilson  26:34  

It’s a double edged sword. And there here’s, here’s what I tell people. I know you’re hurting right now. Let’s talk in two and a half months, you’re not going to do anything. As far as this relationship goes two and a half months. That’s the plan. If they contact you, that changes because that’s when you have the opportunity to retract them. But at two and a half months. Let’s decide then if you want to reach out this person


Damona  26:59  

is there a certain amount of time that you recommend before you start dating someone else.


Lee Wilson  27:04  

There’s there’s some good solid research on this from psychology organization to research relationships and research, the way that our brain chemicals work. And usually the minimal is three months that I that I recommend. For a lot of people, it’s longer than that it’s like six. And I do understand that there’s some validity to the idea that if you date around that your ex might hear about that and become insanely jealous and wants you back. However, 20 years and thousands of cases I’ve seen that blow up in people’s faces a lot. Here’s why. Usually the person who does the dumping, and then finds out you’re already dating after two weeks, thinks, well, I must not have meant that much to them anyway, that’s one thing or they think you’re trying to get their attention with it. And then it makes you look like you’re trying to get them back and you’re not really doing as well as they thought you were. So there’s a lot of ways that it can blow up in your face. But then as far as you personally If you are in a serious relationship, you’re really not ready as quickly as you think you are most of the time because you want, you don’t want to just hop from one relationship to another. You know, you don’t, you don’t want to just be in a relationship for the sake of being in a relationship, it’s very easy to get into a rebound, that will move too fast and sabotage itself. So I usually tell people to take some time and just be alone for a little bit and reflect evaluate on the relationship you just lost. How do you feel about that? What was good about the relationship? And a lot of times, if people are just given the breakup, you would be amazed. I get emails still to this day, every day of people who will say, I really didn’t think they would. But I did what you said and now they’re contacting me, and they want to get back together.


Damona  28:52  

Yeah, it’s amazing how simple it can be to get what you want. If you know the steps and you get out of your own way. So thank you for giving everyone the roadmap here and the secret sauce. I know you have a lot more on your YouTube channel. Thank you so much for being here, Lee.


Lee Wilson  29:09  

I appreciate it very much enjoyed it.


Damona  29:11  

Thank you. Now you know how to get your ex back. But in a moment, I’m going to tell you so much more and answer your questions on dating during COVID and ghosting stick around. We’re back and I’m here and ready to answer all your dating and relationship questions. This is technically dating.


Damona  29:39  

jambe on Instagram asked me, How do you deal with flaky people? If people get ghosted? Should they call the person out to stand up for themselves rather than letting the person think that it’s okay to treat people like that? Jim, I love your chutzpah. I love that you are willing to stand up for yourself the question Is what are you gonna get out of it? If you are going to call somebody out and read them the riot act about their crappy behavior, which is ultimately the right thing to do. And if I was their Mama, I would tell them why they need to behave in a better way. But are you doing it because you’re trying to get back at them because you’re trying to teach them a lesson, because you’re looking for some sort of feedback or an apology. Because if it’s if it’s that reason that you’re doing it, you are chasing a feeling that may not come and ultimately potentially doing more harm to yourself and good people. Hate is gonna hate people gonna flake. So if you can just deliver it in a way that’s not emotionally charged, and let them know we had a plan to meet this date. Sorry, sorry, didn’t happen or if they’re ghosting you in conversation. Like you made a connection, and then all of a sudden they’re not responding back, please don’t do the three texts like, hey, Did I say something wrong? Are you there because that just puts you in a weak position like I was talking about with, with Lee a moment ago. And I want you to be strong. So this is what I do. I do think and release, you thank that person for showing you who they were up front. And then you release them to whatever is their karma next. And that’s it, then you wipe your hands of it. And you can move on with a clean conscience and find somebody who’s going to treat you appropriately treat you like a person and make a meaningful connection.


Our next question today is from a listener on Facebook, who says I really like this guy, but he won’t wear a mask anywhere. Should I let him know that this really bothers me. Okay, now this is kind of a different situation because you’re in a relationship or you’re in a situation, ship your data This guy, this isn’t a ghosting situation where the person just dismissed you. This is somebody that you care about and you want to build a relationship with. And if it is something that really bothers you, then absolutely, you need to speak up. Now this can’t be a, you should wear a mask. Haven’t you seen the stats? Look at all of the people that have COVID, do you want to be one of these people? It can’t be that kind of a situation because people are just going to push back against that kind of a judgment, right? But what you can do is you can say I really care about you, and I want you to be healthy, and I want to be able to be healthy and feel comfortable with you. But it makes me feel uncomfortable when you don’t wear a mask. And that way it’s not it’s not judgement of them. I mean, even though it is but you’re not expressing judgment of them, you’re expressing how their actions are impacting you. And if that person is actually person, if that person really wants to invest in a relationship with you, then they will say, Okay, I don’t really want to do it. But for you, I will Or how about I just start wearing it to the grocery store, maybe they’ll start bargaining and then you’ll move into the next phase of this conversation, but you’ve at least expressed your dissatisfaction. And is it a deal breaker? I’ve been hearing this a lot people have been been messaging messaging me like is it a deal breaker if this person won’t wear a mask, maybe if you’re in a situation where maybe you’re caring for children or the elderly or you are compromised and your immune system and this person will not respect your your boundaries and your needs in a relationship, then guess what we got another thank and release. And there you have it, but I really hope that you can use this time to Express your needs in a way that’s really constructive and to move into a deeper phase of the relationship. That’s it for today’s show. This is number 316 of baits and mates. This is our last full episode of season seven, but I have some really exciting minisodes coming up in the next month all through July I’ll be doing a series of master classes centered around meditation and visualization. And trust me These exercises are really good for my one on one clients, and I know there’ll be good for you too. So don’t forget to check out Lee Wilson. He’s at my ex back coach calm and if you want to continue the journey with me, you can join our patreon@patreon.com slash dates and mates. As always, we will put all the links from today’s show in the recap. You can find that recap at dates and maids calm along with producer Leo’s super cute gifts. You don’t want to miss it. Honestly, there’s so much more updates inmates, if you’re just listening on on Apple or Stitcher or Spotify, there’s a whole other world waiting for you at dates and mates. And by the way, if you are listening on any of those platforms, I would love to have you review the show. let other people know why you love dates and mates, and you can help me heal more hearts in season eight of dates and mates, so stay subscribed to the show. We’ll have more content for you all summer. And let’s stay in touch. Let’s stay in touch for the summer. I’m at damona Hoffman on all of the socials and don’t forget to DM me your questions because we’re gonna be back with season eight and just a moment’s notice. And I’m gonna need your questions so that I can help you in love. Until next week, I wish you good health and happy dating

Cuddle Buddies & Practical Attraction


It’s another sunny day in COVID-19 racial equality uprising land. And yes, we’re still mad as hell, we’re still exhausted as hell, but we’re still here for you to help you through the challenges that you’re facing in love.


After 3 months of quarantine many of us are eager to get back out and start dating or to find a new normal with our mates and we have an intriguing guest talking to me today on how to write your new rules on love.

Today, we’re talking to Adam Lyons, a dating coach who is all about practical dating and attraction. He’s made headlines in the past for his polyamorous relationships and he’s here to encourage you to live your love life by your own rules.

But first, we have headlines to share: 


Why you should be upfront about your political views in dating at this time

There is a lot of political tension in the world right now and Dating.com has seen a 43% increase in users talking about politics on the platform. Maybe right now is not the time to find love across party lines? Damona breaks it down.


Do men with 9 to 5s make good life partners?

Comedian B. Simone made headlines this week after an interview on the Nick Cannon show where she said that 9-5 men were not right for her. Damona has thoughts.


Your government wants you to get some… safely of course

This week, Boris Johnson, PM of the UK, announced that his government encourages singles to find one household to mingle with – a support bubble or a cuddle buddy. They also ask that if you have sex, consider wearing a mask…. Damona definitely has something to say about this one.



Damona talks to Adam Lyons – author, public speaker, and an expert in practical dating and attraction.

You might actually know him from a pretty big interview on the Today Show where he shared his polyamorous relationships and it has been covered extensively by tabloids across the world.

So when Damona decided to have him on the show, as someone who usually speaks about monogamous relationships, we expected some pretty big disagreements BUT in fact, Damona was surprised on how much his teachings align with hers.



With him we discuss:

  • Hookup Culture is still here
  • Rampant STIs throughout the world prove that we’re not ready to hookup again
  • Ghosting: Why you should take responsibility for it
  • Dating starts with women: how to let him know you want him to approach you
  • Why you should never tell someone you’ve loved them in secret
  • Polyamory: Monogamy, but more love and communication

Find Adam on Instagram at the @thedatingcoach and get to know his special ACE formula for dating at theaceformulablueprint.com!



Submit your questions Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and hear our answers live on the show! Here’s what our listeners asked about this week:

  • Jenny from Waukegan, IL – Do you think it’s better to play hard to get or show more interest when first matching up with a guy? I’ve tried both methods and have gotten the same results of talking for a week and then nothing. 
  • Jodi – I am ready to date again after 10 years divorced and am talking to an online match, but I find that in the time of COVID this dating thing is more difficult than I imagined. We have been speaking for six weeks, 5 facetime dates, one socially distanced coffee date and daily texts. I am honestly ready to risk some more face to face interaction with him but he seems to be moving too slowly and I am not sure if it’s the pandemic or a classic case of “He’s Just Not That Into You.” His texting has slowed down a lot this past week and I am not sure if it is comfort or slow ghosting. I don’t want to sound thirsty! HELP! He is 47 and I am 42.


Damona  0:12  

Hello lovers, it’s another sunny day and COVID-19 racial equality uprising land. And yes, I’m still mad as hell. And yes, I’m still exhausted as hell. But yes, I’m still here for you. And I’m here to help you through the challenges that you’re still facing in love. After three months of quarantine, many of us are eager to get back out and start dating, or to find a new normal with our mates. And I have an intriguing guest talking to me today about how to write your new rules on love. Today, I’ll be joined by Adam Lyons. He’s a dating coach who’s all about practical Dating and attraction. He’s made headlines in the past for his polyamorous relationships. And he’s here to encourage you to live your love life by your own rules. But first, we have current events to discuss, like why you should be upfront about your political views during this time on dating apps. And do guys with a nine to five job make good life partners, plus the next step in Corona dating right here right now. And then as always, at the end of the show, Adam and I will answer your questions including should you be playing hard to get and what if he’s just not that into you? All that and more on today’s dates and made so you’re ready for this? Then let’s dish these dating dish.

dating.com urges people to find the right time to bring up politics in dating. Dating calm has actually seen a 43% increase crease in users talking about politics on the platform. And this is nothing new. What are right around, let’s see 2016 I did some episodes about how the polarized political climate was causing people to put that first on their dating profiles. And it was the primary filter that a lot of people were using before even engaging with someone online. And so we had a few years to settle back into our ways. We had a global pandemic, and a racial equality uprising. And here we are, again, nothing like those kind of factors to push you back to the political, your sides of the political spectrum. So a lot of people on dating calm said that they would not consider dating someone with opposing political views and that they’ve even previously ended Relationships due to opposing political views. Two thirds of users responded in that way. But many people said that bringing politics into the discussion can be a really big turnoff to them, and that they will often go someone shortly after the conversation. So where does that leave us? We want to use politics as a filter. But at the same time, nobody wants to talk about it because it’s super unsexy to talk about it in that day. And that has always been one of the top things, no things to never talk about. You never talk about religion. You never talk about politics. And I always say you never talk about sex on the first date. But where that leaves us is we need to stop using a political affiliation to mean a whole set of values about someone I hate to break it to you but we still are going to have to do the hard work and have in depth meaningful conversations that can indicate what someone’s values are. beyond just what box they check at the polls. And yes, I understand that certain political parties do have certain belief systems that people in those parties are very vocal about. But you have to remember that everybody is an individual. And just because they’re either red or blue, that doesn’t necessarily mean that they aren’t a match for you. Talking about looking for a match. I don’t know if y’all saw this, this Instagram video from be Simone. She’s a comedian and instagrammer who sells books on manifesting the life and the love life that you want. And she did this whole video about why men with nine to five jobs just aren’t gonna work for her. She’s like, I’m up at 3am answering emails. He won’t understand that. And I want to be very clear that I disagree with be Simone that men with nine to five jobs are not a good Match because I think a lot of people took that away from the video. And that’s not what she’s saying. She’s saying they’re not a good match for her. And I’m totally on board with the idea that manifesting the right person for you is what you should be doing. So I hear this a lot, especially from people that are in unique kinds of jobs. I work with a lot of people in the entertainment industry that have these very demanding jobs that work all hours like be Simone people might be on set, they might be traveling. And if you have a more traditional job, you might not understand that and you might not have the flexibility, like, like some of my friends, for example, in entertainment, their partners have to go on set for three months or six months and they just say, Okay, I’m going to uproot my life and move to where they are, and we’re just going to be on set for the next three to six months. Not everybody can do that. So you really need to do the mindset work and that’s why all of my dating coaching programs, whether it’s a 30 day dating playbook or my VA IP programs that are one on one, they all begin with the mindset piece. And the mindset piece is not just getting clear on what you want and manifesting it as be someone says, but it’s also about looking at your values, the lifestyle you want. And remember those long term goals and shared values are two of the most important factors in compatibility. If you figure those things out, like be Simone has, and you put that out into the world, whether it’s the way that you filter on dating apps, or what you ask people for when they’re setting you up with someone, then you’re going to be a lot more satisfied in the relationship because it’s going to be in alignment.

If you are across the pond in the UK, I know we have a lot of new listeners from from the UK and first welcome and also I have to say, I’m so sorry because your government seems to have Coronavirus matching all wrong. They said in it that in the UK Boris Johnson announced that he’s easing the country’s Coronavirus restrictions by allowing people to pair up in support bubbles. So a support bubble can be two people or two households that can spend time together inside each other’s homes. And they do not need to say they say two meters apart here we say six feet apart. You can do it you could do the correlation there, figure out how far it is from whatever country you’re listening. Right now, it means that you can blend you can create a cohort, which is ultimately good, but we have to back up to what the previous restriction was where they were basically saying it was illegal for you to make contact with the person that did not live in your home. They said you can’t go inside somebody else’s house. You can’t be with other people. Unless you’re outside and And you certainly cannot stay the night. But the funny thing about this, this article and what I’ve been hearing from the British government is that they seem to have no understanding of the way that people actually mate and date and relate. They they suggested that sex with yourself or with others at a distance is possible. So that’s the safest way to avoid getting Coronavirus. But they also said maybe it’s your thing, maybe it’s not, but during COVID-19 we’re a face covering that covers your nose and your mouth. And that’s a good way to add a layer of protection during sex. And the during sex part, like literally just made me

just made me fall out of my chair. Can you imagine having sex with somebody and you’re not doing roleplay and you’re just wearing a mask? And what about all the other bodily fluids that are being shared? We don’t know if they have access A live virus in them and we do know as I said on the show a few weeks ago that Corona virus is present in the sperm of infected people. So what’s the point of men wearing a mask to not breathe on them if you are sharing bodily fluids inside of them makes no sense to me. Sorry to get you know a little more graphic than I usually get on that one. But I think ultimately, it is a good thing to have a cuddle buddy during Coronavirus. You know, we’re three months in now. And I know a lot of you are feeling really isolated and lonely and feeling that skin hunger just wanting to be touched. I have to tell you, I hugged my mom today. I just said The hell with it. And we just have to blend our families because how long can my mom be isolated she lives alone, and I hugged her and I cried y’all because it had been three months since I had touched my mom and I it showed me how much emotion had built up inside, from not having that connection. So I know if I’m feeling it and I’ve been, I’ve been touched like way too much in the last 4434 months with with my kids and my husband at home all day every day. So I know those of you that are single and that are living alone are really feeling that that desire to have someone in your life. So I say you heard it here for the first time. I say it’s okay, as long as you’re being safe and you know, that person doesn’t have any symptoms. And ideally, there’s retesting here in Los Angeles and I know in a lot of other places, ideally, you’re getting tested and knowing what your Coronavirus risk tolerance is. If you need to be touched, if you need to create a support bubble with you, and a friend or you and an F buddy. I think we’re at the point where it’s like, y’all need to do what you need to do. Those are the headlines for this week. I’d love to know what you think if you agree or disagree about men who have nine to five are manifesting your mate or political differences, or even Coronavirus, support bubbles. Maybe you disagree with wearing a mask during sex, I don’t know, but I want to hear about it. You can of course, messaged me anytime on social media. I’m on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook at damona Hoffman. You can also join the Patreon friends with benefits@patreon.com slash dates and mates and you can even help shape some of the content that’s going to be on dates and mates going forward. And trust me, you’re going to want to stick around for this next interview. I’m talking to Adam Lyons and we’ll be covering everything from attraction to dating advice to even polyamory. It’s a provocative and thought provoking interview. So don’t go anywhere. We’ll be right back. Welcome back. I’m talking to Adam Lyons he’s an author, public speaker and an expert in practical dating and attraction. You might actually know him from a pretty big interview on the Today Show where he shared his polyamorous relationship, and it’s been covered extensively by tablets across the world. So when I decided to have him on the show, as someone who normally speaks about monogamous relationships, I expected some pretty big disagreements. But in fact, I was surprised at how much of his teachings align with mine. So get ready lovers because your world is about to be rocked by Adam Lyons. Let’s give him some big smooches.

Adam Lyons  12:43  

Thank you so much for having me.

Damona  12:45  

It is so great to be here with you because I know you and I have some different opinions. We have some different perspectives on dating relationships, but you’ve been working as a dating coach for many, many years and you’ve helped a lot of people move into the kind of roles That they want. And you’re also up to speed on the trends and what’s happening. So let’s get into it.

Adam Lyons  13:09  

I’m down.

Damona  13:10  

Okay, here we are a few weeks after many states are now reopening their their the Rios guidelines, they’re strict guidelines. And I have said first of all I’ve said for a long time to my clients and to the listeners of the show, you better not You better not be dating during COVID. Do you have people that have been going out on dates and have been like, tiptoeing into the waters even before their states are opened up?

Adam Lyons  13:40  

I do I have people, I have people that have been swamped with requests for dates. It’s crazy. What’s been happening. I’ve been a dating coach for 15 years, and I have never in my entire history of teaching dating, had students messaged me and say, I’m being swamped with people inviting me on dates. And I don’t know what to do. It just came out of nowhere. I mean, we’re successful. But this is crazy. Some of these students having eight times of success, and we know this because we keep track of that data to help the students grow.

Damona  14:12  

What do you think is the biggest change then that’s causing that? Is it because we can’t? It’s not as easy to move offline? Or is there like a desperation happening? What’s going on?

Adam Lyons  14:23  

Yeah, there’s so many little details that happening. So one of the first things things that’s happening is obviously, people are bored. And when they’re bored, they’re looking for human companionship and connection. And one of the fastest and easiest ways to meet a stranger is online dating. You know, there are friend apps where you can like make a friend but the reality is most people are going straight to online dating to have a bit of flirting, if they’re single, that is exactly where they’re going. Now this unique time that we’re in like the COVID-19 thing. There is in the media, a lot of confusion about how really is whichever side of the fence you sit on you Can’t deny that people are coming to conflict over this. And because of that, it creates, you know, an element of people being unsure about whether it is okay or isn’t okay. And so people do that. Not very good test where they look with their eyes and make the decision based purely on what they see. And they’re like, well, I don’t look like I have COVID-19. And this person I’m seeing online doesn’t look like they have COVID-19. So I’m sure we don’t have it. Let’s give it a go. And I know this mentality from sexually transmitted diseases, because we often see this with people saying, I don’t need to get tested. I can tell I don’t have anything and they don’t understand that they could absolutely be a carrier. And if you are being promiscuous, you need to get tested on a regular basis.

Damona  15:46  

So what is your your philosophy for daters? Both on STD, STI test testing, and COVID-19 testing.

Adam Lyons  15:56  

So yeah, a lot. One of the biggest things that I refuse to do As a dating coach is I refuse to dictate how somebody has to live their life. One of the first things we do is an assessment. And in the assessment, I get students to write down what they want and what they hope to achieve. And the very first thing we decided before we even signed somebody up, you can’t just give me money and work with me, we have to have alignment, I have to agree with what it is that you’re trying to achieve. And I have to want to help you do it. If what you write down is the things that you want to get are things that go against my moral code, things that I just don’t want to do. We just say thank you, but no, thank you. We’re not the right company for you. So we know the students that come to us are people that we’re in alignment with. Now, having said that, COVID-19 came in the middle of a lot of students who had already signed up with us. They knew that if they planned on being promiscuous, we were going to recommend that they do STD testing, and that we would, you know, say hey, this is serious, you need to do this COVID-19 kind of fell in that category. In many ways. We treated that as another form of STD just one that you could get by being in proximity with somebody. And so for us the due diligence around that procedure kicked in. So it was like, if you’re going to meet people, you really should look at going to get tested. You want to do things slowly. And surely don’t just jump into a relationship with somebody, make sure you have phone conversations, first text conversations. First, do virtual dating first, just anything you can to really expand upon your interactions with somebody before you make a commitment to go and meet them. If you are going to go and meet somebody, which we don’t really recommend, unless you’ve both been tested, and you know, everything’s okay, then you should really take some serious precautions to make sure that you limit whether you to see anybody else, you know, we recommended taking two weeks of virtual dating for a while, where you know, you can actually talk about where you’re going, where you’re who you’re talking to interacting with, and have almost this period of together quarantine where you’re not actually together until you say okay, we look pretty good. Let’s go for this. Now. That was one of the things that we were recommending, and we were telling everyone you obviously run it by a doctor see what they say,

Damona  17:55  

huh? Yes, I’ve been a big fan of the virtual dating for a long time. And I think now it’s it’s such a great tool. It’s so great that we have these these apps that are available to us to be able to connect. I’m

Adam Lyons  18:11  

curious though, you said you always do an assessment at the beginning, and ask them what they want, what to the majority of people come to you for. Everyone wants something different. But there is a there is a standard, but it does tend to deviate between the sexes. You’ll often find most men that apply are looking to meet the one, but they don’t want to settle down right now. So they say I’m looking for somebody I really want to settle down with, but I don’t really know what I want. So I’d like to go on a bunch of dates meet a bunch of people to identify exactly what I want. Most women will say, I’m tired of meeting people that it looks like everything’s good. And then suddenly, everything just collapses and it goes cold. And now I don’t know what’s going on. So they tend to be the two camps and there are other things but they tend to be the two predominant

Damona  18:59  

that’s interesting to me that you said most of the men say they’re looking for the one. Because a lot of the women that, that write into the show have this feeling that all men are players, all men just want to hook up. But you’re not sorry.

Adam Lyons  19:14  

I it’s so funny. I see the I work with men and women. And I see exactly what you’re saying. And I see the exact opposite. Men saying, women just want to find a better deal. They want to upgrade. They, you know, they want me to be six foot tall, but I’m only five foot 10. And you know, so when I’m with them, I feel they keep looking at taller men or laughing of their friends about how they want somebody to say it’s hysterical because I see both sides. I see you know men’s worrying about you know, women constantly trying to play the field. But I see women saying that, you know, men don’t want to settle down. I think the reality is we might as well just look at humans, and recognize that most humans actually have no idea what they’re doing when it comes to dating.

Adam Lyons  19:54  


Adam Lyons  19:56  


Adam Lyons  19:57  

Unless you’ve sat down, read some books. Put some time Put some studying in. I mean, we have sex education in school, which is like, what maybe a couple of hours of class size schools? Not all anymore. Right? But where’s the relationship? education? Right? Where’s the emotional intelligence lessons? Where’s the lessons in how to handle conflict? Or when you meet somebody that is has clearly had trauma in the past? What’s the best way to handle them? How do you, you know, handle letting somebody down? How do you say no, in a way that doesn’t make you feel ostracized from a social group? These to me are basic one on one lessons that all human beings should know. They’re never taught. And if somebody hasn’t bothered to sit you down and say in a nice way where you can hear it and your ego isn’t hearing that as a critique on yourself, then you’re one of the lucky few.

Damona  20:40  

Yeah, and I also look at flirting as a learned skill to and attraction. And I know you teach this also in your formula, like, especially I think the message to women is that we should just know how to do this. You should just know how to be attractive to a man. And I feel like a lot of men. Maybe I’ll get hate mail for this book. Feel like a lot of men think, oh, any woman can get, she could get a guy just by going on an app, they get, they all get tons of messages, and they could get laid anytime they want. And that is just not the experience of a lot of our listeners and a lot of our clients. And these are attractive women. It’s not like, you know, they are they it’s not like they’re an automatic swipe left. For a lot of guys. It’s just developing that, that skill set of attraction. What do you think about that?

Adam Lyons  21:35  

I mean, you’re not wrong. And you know, in any way everything you’re saying there is exactly what I’ve seen. I think, you know, one of the key elements when it comes to dating and people is we always think that everyone else has it better. All men will look at the most beautiful women and say it would be easy for them. And then they like but it’s very difficult for us men, but then there are men who it’s very easy for Then, and yet not easy for other women. But that would be the same as anything, we don’t have to look at this as dating, we could look at this as running a marathon, there’ll be some men and women that it will just be very easy for them. And for others, it will be very difficult. And that’s all to do with how much time energy and effort you’ve put into studying and learning how to do that. I actually I have a great article that I write where I take a photograph of myself twice within 20 seconds. One picture is the worst dating app picture you could ever have. And it looks terrible. And the other one looks like a professional model photoshoot. Both are taken on my phone. And it’s just shows that I understand how lighting works. I understand how to pose correctly. And I show this to show people that you can learn how to portray yourself in the right way. But when you’re competing with somebody who knows what they’re doing, yeah, it’s gonna be difficult for you, because this other person knows. Mm hmm.

Damona  22:53  

Yeah, he’s so much that you said really resonates for me. I’d love to link to that. If I can. For our audience, because that that encapsulates a lot of what I tell people about marketing yourself, right, like, and kind of you have to get out of your head, I think you said a little bit of this earlier. If you are so emotionally invested in the app and the results and what’s, what’s happening and each individual interaction, you will make yourself crazy, right, especially at the rates that people are dating right now, I was just talking to one of my friends at OkCupid. And he was saying that they’ve seen like almost a 20% increase in conversations in messaging that’s happening in the app. So you’ll you’ll make yourself crazy if you invest in each and every one but when you step back and look at it, almost like you’re marketing yourself as a product. And you know, like you’re selling a product it’s like some people are gonna want it some people aren’t but you’re not going to spend all this energy like chasing the the person that Didn’t want the product or being angry at the rejection.

Adam Lyons  24:04  

And I love I love. You know, there isn’t really another word for it for rejection, but I absolutely love it when students come to me and say, you know, I don’t want to get rejected or I’m tired of getting rejected, and it cracks me up because I’m like, do they know you? How can you reject someone if you don’t know them? I was like, all that happened is the elements of you that they met, were not exactly what they were looking at at this point. But did you particularly tailor the elements, you showed them to what they wanted to see? Did you communicate effectively all the time that you’ve helped out at the local animal shelter? Do they really know you? Or in reality? Did you just make a couple of mistakes and this one particular person isn’t really interested? And how much do you know about them? Are they an axe murderer? Did you do your due diligence to check into that? Yeah, and people are like, Why don’t know if they’re an axe murderer. I’m like, well, you probably should have checked that first. You know, like, doesn’t matter how nice the hair is. And, and this is the reality most people just don’t think about it. One that cracks me up is I sit down with somebody, when we first when they join our training program, we get them to identify their ideal person. And I have a rule and if their ideal person, if any quality on that list is something that can be fixed with either getting your hair done or something you can buy over the counter, or you know, a little bit of exercise, or changing clothing, if it’s anything that essentially could just be fixed within, you know, a very short period of time, it’s not allowed to be a quality. Also, it can’t be a quality if everybody else in a room of like 20 people would agree. So for example, if you said, I want somebody who’s funny, it’s like everyone wants somebody who’s funny, you don’t get to add that quality. You need to put unique things down, and you suddenly find that no one can write anything. They’ve got nothing to write on this list, because they’ve only ever just either absorbed what the generic public have said someone who’s fun and nice and caring and knows to put me first but also doesn’t put themselves down right like all these generic things, and someone who is you know, dark haired, blonde or works out these other qualities that are just easy to fix. And once you remove all that, they realize they have no idea what they’re looking for. And when we get to the exercise, I say, and that’s why you’re struggling, because you don’t know what you want.

Damona  26:13  

Yeah, having that clarity is really important. I love the way that you phrase that, Adam, that it’s also about, like being unique in what you’re looking for. Because that’s, that’s really what I teach people on this podcast, that you have to let your own unique qualities shine through. And I would think if you actually turn it around, and I don’t know if you do this in your program, but ask people to list what makes them date worthy, or, you know, whatever data bowl or attractive that they probably struggle if you gave them those same parameters.

Adam Lyons  26:50  

Oh, obviously we actually it’s funny. We have some like telling you that the secret sauce, but we have we have this cool. You know, obviously there is this old practice where you rate somebody on a scale of one to 10. And one of our favorite things is to flip that on its script. And so we say to somebody, okay, we would like you to write down on a scale of one to 10, how attractive you are. And we get them to judge themselves on a scale of one to 10. And then we actually have 10 criteria listed, that most people that we’ve discovered, consider these qualities attractive. And these 10 qualities of things like leadership are things like being thoughtful, I think, like having ambition

Damona  27:29  

10 1010 for me,

Adam Lyons  27:31  

exactly. These are, these are key qualities. And so we’ve got, you know, humor, that kind of stuff. So we have a full list of these 10. And we get them to identify on the list how many of these things they can say that they’re competent at, not perfect at not the best, but just competent at and it shocks me, the really confident people, like I’m an eight out of 10 they’re like, oh, four, and then you get people like, I’m like a three, and then they’re like, wow, I’m like a nine. And you’re like, yeah, you know, yeah, maybe maybe you you’re not in shape, because that’s one of the things is like being healthy, so maybe you’re not in shape. shape. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that you know, that you’re unattractive. And in fact, like healthy and we differentiate this healthy doesn’t mean having a perfect body. In fact, quite often, it does not mean that you see people that go to these bodybuilding contests and stray off towards that throwing up because of what they’re doing to their body, and it’s not healthy. You know, that healthy lifestyle just means understanding the nutrients your body needs, and taking it, it means things like bathing regularly looking after your teeth. These are the things that make somebody attractive. And so when we have our physical attributes, it’s all about you know, going to the dentist regularly and stuff like that. And it was like, but don’t have to look like you know, if you’ve got these huge muscles, like most, most people don’t really care about that. But you know, you probably should be able to walk up the stairs without running out of breath and collapsing on the floor. You know, that’s probably a thing you have to be able to do. Yeah,

Damona  28:50  

are attractive.

Adam Lyons  28:52  

Right. Yeah, exactly. And so these you know, or be able to not, you know, in the middle of a hot and heavy bedroom session like wait, woman, I get my breath back.

Damona  29:01  

Right, good. Yeah, like take a shower

Adam Lyons  29:04  

towel now. Yeah, exactly like wait Round Round two in 10 minutes. Like, I just, I gotta I can’t breathe like I can’t finish it, right. So it’s that kind of stuff. So that that level of healthy. But these 10 qualities, we found absolutely amazing at getting people to identify where they are attractive and to work out what skill sets they should be focusing on. And it really does change that dynamic because men are, in my opinion, are overly obsessed with physical attributes. And women tend to be far less interested in that. But also, women tend to struggle when it comes to reading men, which is funny because they want men to be able to read them. But most women don’t understand that your average guy really just wants to be told what to do, you know, because they don’t want to get it wrong. And so women would do a lot better if they actually just said to men, hey, just so you know, I am interested in you. I just want to make that really clear. And if you invited me to dinner, I’d say yes, and most men That’s like what they want that Oh, thankfully, yes. Oh, yeah, please.

Damona  30:03  

But wait, wait, wait, hold on before you go on Adam. I know, I know what our listeners are going to say. I’m in agreement with you. But

Adam Lyons  30:12  

our listeners are going to say, but isn’t that the man’s job? Shouldn’t they take the initiative now if I take that away from them, and we did an episode a couple weeks ago on a woman who, who asked her man to marry her, and it worked out fine, but I mean, even then, I had on my socials, people were like, Oh, I would never do that. I would never ask a man out. So how do you fine tune that process? Or do you think that’s just antiquated? Like, do we need to just get over those stupid gender roles? I think it was a psychologist by the name of more in the 1980s did a study on American shopping malls, where they studied the courtship rituals of males and females in the shopping mall environment in their teenage years. And they found that the success rate of a male approaching a female was zero unless the woman initiate First, and this was across hundreds of shopping malls and instances.

Adam Lyons  31:05  

And can you define initiated? Because I think there’s a difference?

Adam Lyons  31:08  

Yeah, I don’t this is where women say, Well, I don’t want to take initiative. And it’s like, well, it gets complicated. What actually should happen is a woman will give something that we call an approach invitation, a very clear invitation that you can move forward. Now, I’m going to reword this, as we’re in post, you know, 2019, and we’re going to call this consent. Women need to make it very clear that a man has consent to take charge and do what he wants. That’s the missing piece. And when women ease back and say, Okay, well, I’m not going to do anything if he wants me he’ll pursue. She’s ignoring the fact that society especially now has been really trying to be very clear about men need to be focused on consent, and a lot of them are listening.

Damona  31:49  

Whereas the sexy way today, we can ask for consent, Adam.

Adam Lyons  31:53  

So a sexy way that men can ask for women can

Damona  31:56  

women can ask for consent, or like in that way mall setting. I know, I know, none of you are going to the mall. But in it, you know, we’re moving off offline now into IRL dating. How can a woman show show interest or show that she’s giving consent for a man to approach her?

Adam Lyons  32:17  

So one of my favorite, we have these things called statements of intent. And a statement of intent is where you’re basically making it clear like, Hey, I have intent for something to happen. It doesn’t have to happen. I’m not saying you have to do it. But I just want to put it out there that like I have intent. And so one of the things that I’ll often say, and I get my students to say male or female makes a difference. You say, you don’t think you’re attractive, right? Just that one phrase is killer. Oh, that’s

Damona  32:42  

so that’s so vulnerable, though.

Adam Lyons  32:46  

It absolutely is. And remember, they can’t reject you if they don’t know you. So there’s nothing wrong with that. In fact, what you’re actually being is will remove vulnerable and replace it with honest if you find somebody attractive, you should tell them and you know, it’s really cool. It’s absolutely okay to tell someone you find them attractive, whether you date them or don’t date them. And whether it leads to anything. me telling you I find you attractive doesn’t mean that that now we have today is just an invitation. It’s just me putting out there the first step pages. So you know, what I love about this is men or women can do this, it makes no difference at all. It doesn’t matter, any gender, anybody anywhere, have you identify whatever you’re interested in, you can just say to somebody, hey, do you I find you attractive? And it starts the conversation. That’s all it’s designed to do. And the person can say, Oh, thank you so much for that. I appreciate it. And then off they go. Right. And so then it’s like, Okay, cool. So that was that’s not going anywhere. But what it gives them the ability to reject you in the nicest way they can go thank you and move on. On the other hand, if they want something to happen, all they have to say is the same thing back to you. Well, I find you attractive too. Wow.

Damona  33:51  

That is powerful. And it’s probably Yeah, I hope everyone will

Adam Lyons  33:54  

try this out. It’s so fun as well like and the cool thing about it is Do you know how much of a boost is To say it to somebody who is a friend, genuinely a friend. And you know, sometimes if you’ve known somebody for a long time, you know, people get in these like little crushes and stuff. But that particular phrase can work really well, especially if you remove the outcome. So I know this is something that you spoke about earlier. And I agree 100% where you say somebody’s like, Hey, you know, I don’t I’m not worried about the outcome. I just want to let you know. And so you could say to somebody, Look, I know we’ve known each other a long time, and I have no expectations by anything, but I feel like you should know something I’ve been holding in for a long time. And you know, we’re friends. I’ve always wanted to tell you the truth about anything. And yet there’s one thing I’ve kept quiet. I just, do you know that I find you attractive, like really attractive.

Damona  34:38  

How do you like come back from that if it’s not mutual? I actually, I just got an email this week from a listener who had that experience. She expressed to her male best friend that she had feelings for him and he didn’t feel the same way and she’s really struggling. I know we’re not even moving into technically dating to answer questions, yet. But it just, it just really struck a chord that it’s exact situation that you’re talking about.

Adam Lyons  35:05  

I got you. So there’s some real deep little details here. When you say, I’m telling you my feelings, you’re actually taking your emotions and making it somebody else’s problem. That’s where conflict tends to arrive. It’s very hard to respond to how do I handle your feelings? They’re yours. I don’t know what to do with them. And if I don’t want to deal with them, you just gave them to me like, Ah, that’s a problem. So instead, when you say the phrase, like, do you know that I find you attractive? It’s, it’s a meeting, I’m owning it, I find you attractive. I’m just curious if you know that that’s a fact. But it’s mine. It’s not yours to have. So what’s great about this is I’m not actually being like I’m in love with you. I’ve held this for so long, which is where the conflict would come from, because now they’re in a difficult situation. I’m just saying I find them attractive. So in the situation that’s going on with the person that wrote into you, is difficult because they’ve obviously probably taken a lot of courage to share that, and it’s not reciprocated, and now they’ve got to handle it. So in these situations, I asked them Do you want to keep the friendship? Because right now there’s an awkwardness because the friendship isn’t going to turn into a relationship. Now you know that. So we’ve got to see you being true. Did you really care about them as a friend? Or were you hoping to use friendship as a means to seduce them? Because if you were the seductions over, it’s, it’s not going anywhere now. So now you have to decide if you want the friend. If you truly want them as a friend, then it’s kind of on you to maintain that because you put them in the awkward situation. So you kind of need to be the one to fix it. You need to own up to that. And if you don’t care about the friendship, if you have to date them, then it’s time to move on to let them go keep them as a distant friend that can be a Facebook friend, you know, but but move on and go and find something else now because because that didn’t work. And in general, that doesn’t work. Hmm. Well, you know what, thank you, like really

Damona  36:46  

clarified something that I think I think I was missing like you said, I was I was listening to someone talked the other day, they said, just because someone sends you feelings doesn’t mean you need to act. after delivery, whether it’s like anger, just, you know, out and about or something like this. So, you know, that clarifies it. And hopefully that’s helpful for our listener that wrote in. I did just want to talk as because we’re running out of time, and I’m like, really talking to you. And there’s so much more here. But I’m curious as we are moving out of the quarantine, how this is really going to affect data and culture overall. Do you think that people are going to be more tentative about moving offline or once the floodgates open? Like is it all going to be back to hookup culture as as it was?

Adam Lyons  37:44  

It’s, I mean, it’s, it’s already bursting at the seams. We’ve got people forget dating. People are just itching to get out and go and meet people and interact and you’re seeing it spill over in the media. So even if we just ignore dating, you could see people desperate to go and do that. Somebody said to me recently phrase, I do a lot of business consulting, you know, I have my dating company. I’m also a business consultant. And they said, the year 2000 is where the internet went mainstream, but it wasn’t until 2020 then it was fully absorbed into society. And, and I think we’ve really seen that now. Like, there are more people with home offices, Facebook is considering, you know, staying with home offices and working remotely. I know our company is sticking with working remotely, we we have no need to reopen our office. So I think that actually the virtual dating is here to stay. I think that a lot of these cultural shifts are here to stay. And so having said that, the hookup culture never really went away. And that’s the hard part. There are so many people that are still meeting up during quality quarantine doing quarantine dating, I think it was. I don’t remember the exact country. I think it was Sweden actually recommended people have a quarantine date if you’re single and move in together during this period of time. It’s funny enough, my next door neighbor got a quarantine girlfriend. He found somebody online at the start of quarantine. was like, Hey, we should move in together. And they’ve been living together through the entire thing often never going on a single date. They just moved in.

Damona  39:06  

Oh my god, how’s that working out?

Adam Lyons  39:09  

They get them great. They spend every evening cooking together and they don’t

Adam Lyons  39:13  

hear like dreams and like,

Adam Lyons  39:15 

think she’s running on the wall. Yeah, she’s falling in love and professed her love to him. And he’s confused and doesn’t know how he feels. But he really likes her. And so yeah, it’s crazy. It’s like a world where it’s almost like an arranged marriage that nobody else arranged except for COVID-19. It’s Yeah, it’s it’s a Yeah, it’s a really unique experience. So, um, yeah, I think that there’s a lot of societal changes that have happened now. And this is just the new normal. And, you know, I think the hookup culture, it never went away. I mean, you just have to look back at the Roman times and the ancient Greeks to see they had a wonderful you know, polyamorous lifestyle going on. And, you know, that’s always been part of human nature. Whether it’s somebody chose to practice it or not, it’s obviously completely up to them, but it is always there. You know, we can look at you know, Woodstock And you know, the swinging 60s. So yeah, there’s a lot of elements to humans where we do like doing this, this kind of like hookup culture. And I think that now more than ever, we’re going to see it returned, people are going to be craving physical attention. And they’re going to be, you know, trying to meet up with the people that have been dating virtually. And that will naturally lead to human interaction.

Damona  40:22  

And I’m not telling tales out of school, Adam, but I understand you have been in polyamorous relationships for a long time. Right? Uh huh. So tell us if there’s anyone that’s poly cure. Curious. That’s listening right now. Are there like certain rules or guidelines? Or just what is the framework to even begin to explore that?

Adam Lyons  40:51  

Yeah, so the number one rule about in my opinion, the number one rule about any relationship it doesn’t matter if you’re poly curious polyamorous bisexual intersection makes no difference is communication. The more people you inter interact with or you start dating, the more communication is necessary. It’s not a lifestyle for people that don’t like communicating. I was explained to people in a regular monogamous relationship you have person a person B, and the relationship and they are three distinct entities. Person A needs their lot tender loving care in their own time, Person B needs their tender loving care in their own time, and the relationship needs extend love and caring sometime. The minute you add one extra person to that scenario, we have Person A, B, C, plus the relationship between A and B, the relationship between B and C and the relationship between all three of them. It multiplies the amount of communication interaction is needed, the amount of quality time that’s needed, the amount of effort, the amount of birthdays, I mean, goes crazy. So that my number one rule is for any relationship is you got to be down with communication and Don’t even think about polyamory as, as something that you’re not going to be able to communicate or that you don’t have to communicate with.

Damona  42:07  

It sounds like a lot, especially with two women. Let’s be honest, like what two women in the mix? You must have your hands full.

Adam Lyons  42:15  

I love it. It’s it’s, it’s when I’m in my element. It is the absolute best. So yeah, it’s it’s a great experience for those that want to put in the hard work. But it’s hard

Damona  42:23  

work. Sounds like it. I’ll pass but no judgment for you or any of our listeners that want to go down that road. We have already given so much great advice today, Adam, but I want to keep it going with our next segment. our listeners have written in with questions and I know you have answers.

Adam Lyons  42:42  

My pleasure. Let’s do this.

Damona  42:46  

We are back and we’re ready to answer your dating and relationship dilemmas. This is your favorite segment, technically dating VD. All right. This one comes to us from Jenny who’s from walking keagan, Illinois, she says Do you think it’s better to play hard to get or show more interest when first matching up with a guy? I think I know what you’re gonna say about him. I’ve tried both methods, and I’ve gotten the same results of, of talking for a week and then nothing.

Adam Lyons  43:18  

So it’s the pattern.

Adam Lyons  43:19  

So I found that neither of those things are the correct answer. And the correct answer is actually find things in common with the other person that you both care about. And focus on that. When you and somebody that you meet and match with online have something in common that you both really care about what to do. And that’s the focus rather than should we date, everything’s more organic, and everything’s easier. If when you meet up, you both have a certain restaurant you both want to eat at, and the focus is going to eat the food. It’s not about dating, it’s just this is what we’re going to do. Everything’s better or there’s a lot of new virtual reality arenas that are opening up which I’m seeing and if you really want to try that and the person who told To read, he wants to try that. And the focus on look, we’re going to go and do this cool activity together. That’s what makes things start to work, that’s when the bonding really starts to happen. And I find that the relationships that tend to fall apart the ones where like, like, I’ve tried treating the mean, I’ve tried doing all these, these, these games, and that’s where everything collapses. And it always cracks me up when people are like, I don’t like games. I don’t like manipulation. And then they’re like, so I’m gonna treat in me, right? And I’m like, No, don’t do that. How about try and my favorite, we do brutal honesty. I’m like, Hey, I just want to tell get some really cool things out the way nice and early. So let me tell you a few shocking things about myself. And I’ll just go bomb bomb bomb and hit them with three things that are a little bit shocking, but also kind of fun. And see how they react. Because the kind of people that want to date me, they hear those things. They’re like, wow, this is fun. And there was some people are like, not you. And I’m like, great.

Damona  44:51  

Yeah, you can kind of take the temperature of the room very quickly with some of those things. Yeah, and I think it’s very clear. If you’ve gotten anything, if you have been doing it for a while and gotten the same results. And it’s not the result you want. That can’t be working. Right? You have to kind of use your own experience as a guide to tell whether you should go a different way. Why does hate this play hard to get thing.

Adam Lyons  45:16  

And this is where people get difficult though, because they think the only two options are play hard to get or be eager and keen. They’re not the two options. The real option is, don’t focus on the relationship part when you first meet somebody focus on doing fun activities, because you may not get on well, and either way, if you have a fun activity, it was a fun date. Right? If that’s the focus, and ironically, if you focus on having a fun date, you’re much more likely to want to get into a relationship. Everyone is trying to focus on the relationship and that’s why it falls apart like me people that like you know, I’m, I’m really I don’t want to waste my time with somebody I’m not interested in. Like how do you know if you’re interested in them unless you hang out with them, like you would do better rather than being single and waiting in doors for the perfect experience. Go and have lots of imperfect experiences and learn To improve yourself and learn how to really refine and define what you’re after, then you’re going to meet the right person.

Damona  46:06  

I like that. Okay, last question. This one comes to us from Jodi. It’s a little longer so bear with me. She says, I’m ready to date again after 10 years divorced, and I’m talking to an online match. But I find that in the time of COVID, this dating thing is more difficult than I imagined. We have been speaking for six weeks, they’ve had five FaceTime dates, one, socially, distance, coffee date and daily texts. She says, I’m honestly ready to risk some more face to face interaction with him, but he seems to be moving too slowly. And I’m not sure if it’s the pandemic or the classic case of he’s just not that into you. She says that the texting has slowed down a lot in this past week. And she’s not sure if it’s comfort or slow ghosting, but she doesn’t want to sound too thirsty. What do you say to God?

Adam Lyons  46:55  

Yeah, this is this is the thing that I was saying to you that’s going on when you’re in an online base. app, you’re talking to more than one person. There’s competition here. And if the competition, you know, if somebody’s only texting a couple of times a day, they’re probably texting other people as well. And if if there’s no verbal communication about what the expectations are, what’s actually going on, then there’s no rules being broken either. A lot of people like to apply the unwritten rule of but we’re talking so you can’t talk to anyone else. But that’s, that’s not really a rule. So actually, the correct thing to do, I would find is a phone call. And on the phone call, do what I like to call like the define the relationship, the DTR. And, hey, we’ve been told thoroughly. I would, yeah, we’ve been talking for six weeks. It’s six weeks. This isn’t. This is huge. You know, in courtship days, we got back in the 1800s you’ve been dating same person six weeks, you know, your parents gonna be like, Who is this person and you meet them? You’re married? Exactly. So no sixes Yeah, six weeks is long. And so it doesn’t matter that it’s just a couple of texts, interactions. And I think it’s absolutely okay again, Honesty. Hey, I’ve really enjoyed our conversations. And sometimes I feel like I know that you’re just not that into it. So just calling out. Is this something you want to keep doing? Or you know, john move on do something else. It’s just, you know, I really enjoy our conversation. I’d like to have more of them. And if you’re open to that, then I was thinking what could be a fun activity is the activity, but if not, then just let me know. And this brutal honesty technique is like the best when it comes to dating. It’s so refreshing. People are like wow, no one’s ever said that to me before and it’s crazy like I can’t tell you how many times like I’m polyamorous I’ll share something a little bit you know? A little bit risky but being polyamorous I’ll say to people when I first meet them for the very first coffee Hey, just so you know, I’m polyamorous. I’m currently seeing this many people. This is currently who I am. This is what I’m doing. And I feel that at the beginning of this coffee, I should let you know. Just so you know what to expect. And if you just want to have a coffee and say goodbye at the end of it, I fully understand. The minute I say that they go Whoa, whoa, whoa. What’s polyamorous or wait? Explain that to me like, does that mean you have three? And they get into it? They’re like, Okay, I’m curious. And they’ll say to me, I’m not saying I want to date you, I’m just saying I want to learn more. I’m like, Okay. And that’s because the people I match with I’ve, you know, kind of felt out and thought like, Okay, I think this is somebody’s open enough to have these kinds of discussions. And that’s how I do it. I don’t browse polyamorous websites or anything like that I meet regular people who don’t identify as polyamorous and I just tell them the truth about what’s going on.

Damona  49:28  

I think you’ve gotten to the heart of the matter, Adam, you got to tell the truth. And especially in today’s dating world, there’s just too much information about people online. There’s too much transparency that that I think rightfully people have, have desired. And the more honest you can be, the more you can get your needs met in a relationship. I so appreciate you being here with us. Thank you for sharing all of your wisdom. And people can check out the ACE formula brute blueprint Ace formula blueprint.com. It’s free. free training, right?

Adam Lyons  50:01  

Yep, there’s a whole bunch of free training. And then that’s basically we get them to go through the free training before they apply to work with us. I’d rather somebody got a bunch of free stuff and see if it was right for them before we even consider working with them, then they can fill in the application and then we can talk and find out you know, if it’s right for us if it’s right for you. We’re pretty picky about who we work with. And that’s because, you know, we want to make sure we’re helping the right kind of people.

Damona  50:23  

Great. Well, we’ll put the link in the show notes. And thank you again, so much for being here.

Adam Lyons  50:26  

Thanks for having me. It was awesome. Really chatting.

Damona  50:28  

You too. That’s it for Episode Number 314 of dates and mates. You can find them on Instagram at dating coach. Yes, that’s how long he’s been in the game y’all. He’s at th e dating coach. And if you’re interested in learning more from him, he has a special formula for dating called the ACE formula. And you can find that at Ace formula. blueprint.com. Again, that’s Ace formula blueprint comm we’ll put it in the show notes and also in the show notes. You can find that link to our special secret special Patreon that’s just for our friends with benefits. That means you can be my friend and a friend of dates and mates. And you can get benefits just by going to patreon.com slash dates and mates, we can have a deeper conversation there, you’ll get exclusive access to video content, and audio content that you can’t find anywhere else on my website or on dates and mates. And you can get access to some of our library archive episodes of dates and dates, which are no longer available to the public. So I want you in the club, and I want your support for dates and made so we can keep making the show. For many, many more seasons. We’re coming up on season eight rapidly approaching so go to patreon.com slash dates and mates. And as always, we will have a show recap at dates and mates.com. With all of the links from the stories we talked about today. Don’t forget to follow me on the socials at damona Hoffman And I still love getting DMS from you as long as they’re clean. And if they have your questions, I would love to read what’s on your mind. So please DM me at damona Hoffman until next week. I wish you inner peace and happy dating